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The top focus of this episode of To The Point is the political showdown over Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Vijay's visit to Karur.
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00:01Good evening, you're watching To The Point. I'm Freethi Chaudhuri. These are the headlines.
00:10Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Vijay returns to Karoor, launches scathing attack on DMK says cops could have cancelled 2025 Karoor
00:17event.
00:18Job letters distributed to kin of stampede victims. Congress says Vijay broke down while giving letters.
00:29Girl harassed, bullied in Jaipur school takes extreme step. Nine-year-old jumped from the fourth floor in November last
00:36year as well after her complaints fell on deaf ears. Victims' parents demand justice.
00:45Two days after his arrest, Goon Sena co-operator Ramesh Matre was produced before court today. He was sent to
00:53police custody till July 13 for assaulting doctor and nurses at government hospital.
01:03Safe footpath drive kicks off in Bengaluru. DKS Sarkar's anti-encroachment drive starts. DKS Minister monitors anti-encroachment drive.
01:19Prime Minister Modi enters, last leg of his three-nation tour, lands in New Zealand, capital Auckland and meets Indian
01:26diaspora. Free trade deal on Modi, Lux and meet agenda.
01:38Top story coming in from Tamil Nadu. Nine months after the Karoor stampede that killed 41, Tamil Nadu Chief Minister
01:46Vijay returned to the town where tragedy struck at one of his own public events.
01:50Dressed in black, he paid tribute to the victims, announced a memorial, met the bereaved families and defended the government's
01:57decision to provide jobs.
02:00To the kin of those killed. But what was meant to be a wizard of remembrance quickly also turned into
02:06a massive political flashpoint. Here's more.
02:24Nine months ago, Karoor was rocked by a tragedy.
02:32A stampede claimed 41 innocent lives, leaving behind grieving families and unanswered questions.
02:50The victims had gone to see their cinema idol and newly launched politician, Talapati Vijay, who had called a public
02:58rally.
03:05On Friday, Joseph Vijay, now the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, returned to Karoor, to stand with those who lost
03:13their loved ones.
03:17Dressed in all black as a mark of mourning, Vijay paid tribute to the victims of the September 2025 tragedy.
03:25The TVK announced a memorial in honor of those who never returned home.
03:38The TVK announced a memorial in honor of those who never returned home.
03:56But the visit also turned political.
04:00CM Vijay hit out at the DMK over the tragedy.
04:10And that's all, he has said,
04:36Away from the political rhetoric, Vijay met the families who have spent the last nine months
04:41learning to live with an irreplaceable loss.
04:45How do you feel at the moment? Your sister has gotten a government job. What's the feel?
04:49She's very happy. At the same time, it will fulfill her needs for her children. It will satisfy her life.
04:58Has the government given you any sort of assurance that for your future they will be there with you?
05:03Emotionally, physically.
05:05The Jamesa has given you the assurance of...
05:07Are you all happy with the compensation given?
05:10Yes, ma'am, we are happy. We are full filled with this job.
05:14The biggest talking point of the visit, however, was the government's decision to hand over job appointment letters
05:20to the families of 32 stampede victims.
05:24The move reached the courts before it reached the beneficiaries.
05:30The Madras High Court rejected a plea challenging the appointments.
05:35Another petition was filed before the Madurai bench, but the court allowed the government to proceed,
05:41observing that offering jobs was akin to providing excretia and declining to interfere in a policy decision.
05:48Yet, the decision drew sharp criticism from the opposition.
05:54The important aspect is that the moment he initiated the speech over there, he started blaming DMK indirectly
06:01for whatever happened over there. I mean the DMK regime at that point.
06:22Even the CPM, part of the ruling alliance, voiced its opposition to the appointments.
06:51Politics may dominate the headlines, but the biggest question still remains unanswered.
06:56Who was responsible for the tragedy that claimed 41 innocent lives?
07:05With Pramod Madhav, Anagakeshav and Apoorvajai Chandran, Bureau Report, India Today.
07:26Suman C. Raman, Political Analyst, Dr. Saeed Hafizullah, Spokesperson, DMK.
07:31I'd like to go to our political analyst first, before we go to our political spokesperson.
07:36So, Suman C. Raman, what do you make of the move?
07:40Look, I have two, three issues with this, Preeti.
07:44And the first issue that I have, you know, is the Chief Minister actually giving government jobs
07:51to those who, families of those who lost their lives.
07:54Now, there is a problem with this.
07:56And the problem with this particular issue is that some of these family members
08:01could be witnesses in the CBI case, which is ongoing.
08:05Now, how can one expect them to be a witness then,
08:10if they have received a government job, you know, from the Chief Minister?
08:13So, that's point number one.
08:15The second point is also the fact that today, the Chief Minister directly contradicted the ADGP of police.
08:22The previous, the ADGP of police during the DMK government had held a press conference
08:28after the night, after the event, after the tragedy.
08:32And he had very clearly said that the DSP warned the organizers and requested them to stop at a location
08:39before actually reaching the final venue for the talk of Vijay.
08:45Now, the Chief Minister says nobody want him.
08:48Now, who's telling the truth?
08:50So, there are certain concerns here.
08:53And the fact that, you know, the fact that it was, Vijay is right,
08:57it was politicized by the DMK and they tried to take undue advantage of the situation.
09:02All of that is valid.
09:04The point is, there were two parties who were culpable to this.
09:08One, the police, because law and order is under the state government.
09:13They should have ensured that adequate arrangements had been made.
09:18And if the crowds were too high, they should have bought.
09:21Second, the organizers, by turning up hours late, several hours late,
09:26the crowd was building up all the time.
09:28Some of them had been waiting from the morning.
09:29So, there is no saying that, you know, only the police was at fault or only the organizers were at
09:36fault.
09:37The fault is both sides, with both sides.
09:39The investigation will hopefully tell us if there was some kind of conspiracy or not,
09:45which is what Vijay's argument is, that this was a conspiracy by the DMK.
09:50So, to that extent, yes, I mean, the CBI inquiry will tell us whether this was just an accident
09:55or it was engineered in some way, as what Vijay claims.
10:01Bottom line is very simple briefly.
10:05Both sides, I mean, particularly the chief minister today, you know, virtually again going back onto his attack mode.
10:12He can attack the DMK on a hundred other things.
10:14But this is a matter under inquiry.
10:16And I think that it was not very appropriate on his part to have said some of the things that
10:22he said.
10:22Because, especially because it contradicts the government's official version.
10:26Of course, previous governments.
10:27Okay, well, that was the previous government.
10:29But, Sumansi Raman, stay on with me.
10:30I want to bring in Shekhar Raya into this conversation.
10:32Shekhar Raya, the visit of Vijay to Karu today, loaded with political messaging.
10:37But there is fair amount of criticism attached to it.
10:40And that could one aspect be, is the giving away of jobs to the bereaved family.
10:45Keeping in mind, there is still a case open where these people are witnesses with the CBI.
10:52Well, Preeti, you know, soon after the tragedy, Vijay himself announced 20 lakhs to the family of each dead.
11:00And 5 lakhs to the people who were injured.
11:03And that money was distributed from his own account.
11:06But this has been something that has been rankling him, the blame on him.
11:11And the fact that there were several restrictions on him in moving to Karur or even going anywhere.
11:16And that has been, you know, behind his mind always.
11:20Though, despite inquiry has been going on by CBI, DMK has never spared a single moment to attack him on
11:26this issue repeatedly.
11:28Both inside the assembly and outside.
11:30So, it was his way of going there and, you know, because earlier he had met the families, but he
11:36had brought them to a resort in Marmalivuram.
11:39And that itself became a big issue, the run-up to the elections.
11:42Now that, you know, he has gone there after 285 days.
11:48This incident happened last year, September.
11:50So, it is his way.
11:51But today, if you see the way, he is now on the offensive.
11:56Because not just on this issue, he also spoke about corruption, that how he is out to, you know, get
12:02at all those DMK bigwigs.
12:05And that lot of details are tumbling down.
12:07I mean, it's a kind of to show that he is in command.
12:10When the DMK is setting a narrative that this government is short-lived, it's not going to last long, and
12:17that, you know, people will leave.
12:18And then there's a case where the state government has accused DMK functionaries of trying to woo the TVK MLAs
12:28to vote against the government.
12:29So, there is a lot happening in the background.
12:32It is his way of reaching out to his people, and also to the fact that the crowds were quite
12:39emotive in today's occasion.
12:41There were two functions, where his way of conveying, look, I have not forgotten, and I did my best.
12:46And then repeatedly saying that if I followed the police instructions in other places,
12:51basically he could not address more than even 15 meetings in the entire Tamil Nadu Assembly election campaign.
12:56So, it is his way of trying to make his case.
12:59Though everyone awaits the CBI's report, which is part of the SIT, which has to be submitted to the Supreme
13:05Court.
13:06All right, Dr. Saeed Hafizullah, to bring you into this conversation,
13:10you might suggest that this is a bribe that the TVK is rolling out to those bereaved,
13:14but the fact is the government can say it's a policy decision.
13:17But that all aside, the sheer fact in the kind of speeches that were made today by Vijay,
13:22it's a direct attack on the DMK, and would sound a tad bit ominous for the DMK,
13:28because he says there are, and there is a course of that commentary coming in from the TVK,
13:34suggesting that a formidable case of corruption is being built against your party,
13:39which was the incumbent before him.
13:43First of all, Chief Minister Vijay should understand he's the Chief Minister of the State,
13:47and it's a constitutional post which comes with accountability, credibility, and responsibility.
13:53He cannot continue to charge baseless allegations against the previous government.
13:59Now that he's in power, he should act.
14:01All the more, you know, you can have political differences with party,
14:04but to say that police was involved in this tragedy is something that is totally unacceptable.
14:10Today he holds that portfolio of home minister.
14:12So he's blaming the police, which is under his government today.
14:17Today, you know, it was the government, the legislative can change,
14:20but the institutions are the same.
14:23You cannot take institutions for your political settlement.
14:26That he's doing it today.
14:28Now nothing, his speech is all the same.
14:30Ever since he started his party,
14:33it was all about crying victimhood, revenge, and stopping people.
14:37He, during the past, you know, our government,
14:40he was crying that he's being stopped.
14:42Only 5,000 people are allowed.
14:44Now it is your government, why don't you make it 50,000?
14:46Why are you still following the 5,000 thing?
14:49You have to answer all this.
14:50You don't have answers.
14:51This is Goebbels theory propaganda of repeating a lie and trying to make it true.
14:56Today he spoke about creating a memorial for the Karu Stampede.
15:00I think he should make a memorial of his bus coming late.
15:03And there should be a memorial where people should remember how he ran away to the airport.
15:09That back of Vijay, which is a very famous photograph that lives in the memory of people
15:14who have witnessed Karu's tragedy.
15:16Is that he running away when media was asking him to stay?
15:19Who asked him to leave Karu?
15:20He left the people, he left the disease, he left the kith and kin of the disease in middle of
15:25a crisis.
15:26And now coming and crying is nothing but making politics out of a tragedy.
15:32That is the trademark of the TVK today.
15:34See, now this 32 job, there is something called legally right, there is something called ethically right.
15:40It is being condemned by the Communist Party on whose support your government is formed.
15:45You can say if DMK is politicizing it, will the TVK apply the same yardstick, same comment and same...
15:53Okay, stay with me.
15:54I have with me the TVK spokesperson, Mr. Satya Kumar.
15:57Mr. Satya Kumar, the charges are that this was inducement, this was bribery,
16:03especially where a case by the CBI is still open in the Karu tragedy.
16:07A lot of family members who were given jobs today were, are a part of being witnesses in the CBI
16:16case.
16:19See, the step taken by the Honorable Chief Minister, Talabadi Vijay, is in the capacity of the Chief Minister.
16:25Point number one, wherein the Supreme Court has clearly said they cannot interfere in the executive functions
16:31of the head of the state, Chief Minister, because in the capacity of the Chief Minister, he is giving compensation.
16:36If you look at the previous DMK government, while they were in the power,
16:40they also provided compensation to the victim families.
16:44And my leader, Talabadi Vijay, as an extension to that, he feels that the compensation is inadequate.
16:50In fact, today, in Madurai bench of the Madrasai Court, they even, one of the advocates has filed a petition.
16:56Even Madurai bench of the Madrasai Court has clearly said that they cannot interfere in the public function,
17:02wherein the compassion appointments are being made.
17:06Also, they have added, impreed the Member Secretary of the Tamil Nadu Public Service Commission,
17:10citing the law of precedent of Tutukhudi police firing incident, wherein compassionate appointments were being given.
17:16So, there is a law of precedent, constitutionally it is valid.
17:18It is not violating article 14 and 16 of the constitution of India,
17:22because there is a precedent, wherein the appointments have been given in the previous governments as well.
17:26So, accordingly, we are following what is allowed by the constitution, and what is allowed by the law.
17:33Alright, fair point. Mr. Hafizullah, would you want to get back?
17:36Because I think they've ticked all the boxes.
17:38Even the Supreme Court has practically told you that how can the Supreme Court stop
17:42Mr. Vijay from actually the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu to going to Karoor?
17:47See, nowhere in the prayer was that Vijay should not go to Karoor.
17:51Our point was simple, that the statement made by the Minister saying,
17:55we have to settle scores as far as Karoor is concerned.
17:59This is something that is inappropriate at a point where such a tragedy is happening.
18:06This is where we say that the TVK is politicizing a tragedy.
18:10This is what we want to expose to the people of Tamil Nadu,
18:13that crying victimhood.
18:16Sumansi Raman wants to come in, but I want to bring in Satya Kumar back into this conversation.
18:20Satya Kumar, the charge is, you might have legally, you know, ticked all the boxes.
18:25The question is, what about the ethical and morality box,
18:28which is what the DMK and others are charging you with?
18:35What my leader Talabadi Vijay, Honorable Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, is doing is fair.
18:39Because it's very, very simple.
18:41The constitutional morality is to look at how victims have to be given compensation,
18:46that is excretia amount, as well as the compassionate appointments.
18:50Second, a very, very important point to be noted,
18:52CBI has actually not arrayed anybody as accused.
18:56The entire narrative is built by the DMK to see to that in the public opinion,
19:01as though my leader Talabadi Vijay isn't accused.
19:04He's not accused anywhere.
19:06Neither in the state government FIR, neither in the CBI.
19:09RCIR, for example, RCIR, nobody has it.
19:13Can they show?
19:14Can they show me the RCIR of the CBI?
19:16Even Sendhil Balaji has been called by the CBI.
19:19He has been called, and even the police department was called by the CBI.
19:22They went and gave statements.
19:24So, there is nothing to show that my leader Talabadi Vijay is then accused in the case.
19:29And Supreme Court has also highlighted as an observation,
19:32when Mr. RS Bharati, General Secretary of the DMK, filed the petition.
19:34So, it is very, very clear.
19:36The entire narrative of DMK is getting destroyed.
19:40And their entire effort is to see to that the appointments are not being made to the victims.
19:45Because my leader Talabadi Vijay is gaining name.
19:47And also, it is obstructing their political narrative.
19:50It's as simple as that.
19:52All right.
19:53I want to bring in Sumansi Raman into this conversation.
19:55Sumansi Raman, if you actually go back in Tamil Nadu.
19:57I'll come back to you, sir.
19:58Sumansi Raman, if you actually go back into the politics of Tamil Nadu,
20:01history stands precedent that there are enough precedents to suggest what Mr. Vijay did.
20:07The other prior governments have done quite the same.
20:10On their watch.
20:11I want to draw a distinction there.
20:14It's not a blanket that all governments have done this or some governments have done that.
20:18The stir-light firing was caused, was an act by the state, by the police force.
20:25The police shot and killed 13 people.
20:28On that basis, compassionate grounds, jobs were given.
20:31Government jobs were given to the victims' families.
20:33Now, this is not a case that something that the state, the state is logically culpable.
20:39The state is also culpable for illicit liquor debts.
20:42The state is culpable for even road accidents where the roads have been dug up by the same token.
20:47How many other people have been given government jobs?
20:49The issue is not that this is illegal.
20:53The state is fully at liberty to give whatever compensation it deems fit.
20:57But the optics of giving these people government jobs, when technically they are witnesses,
21:04in a CBI inquiry, is something which does not look good.
21:09I mean, you can justify it saying that there is no illegality, no law has been broken.
21:14But how does it square up?
21:16And here you are.
21:17It's the same thing as the host trading charges which are going on,
21:20where, you know, MLAs have been brought in from the AIA-DMK who resigned their seats.
21:25Now there's going to be a by-election.
21:26It's been stayed by the court for some time.
21:28But there's going to be a by-election.
21:30If they are given TVK tickets, is there not a quid pro quo?
21:33It hasn't happened yet.
21:34But if it happens, is it not possible?
21:36So they are trying to sort of skirt around the borders of the legal, of what is legal.
21:43But clearly, this is not ethical.
21:47And this is something that he should have avoided until the inquiry was over.
21:51After the inquiry, he is at liberty to give them whatever compensation he wanted.
21:55Okay.
21:56Shekhar Iyer, would you want to come into this?
21:58Because what it does seem is, how the stage is now being set.
22:01What was, you know, at least both the sides were a tad bit cordial.
22:07Once Vijay had taken oath, you had the DMK say what it did, despite of all that had gone down
22:12right before that.
22:13And now it seems the gloves are off.
22:17Yeah, Priti, because, you know, the DMK is down with the dubs.
22:22You know, that's a simple fact.
22:24And within the DMK, there is a sense of despondency.
22:27You know, the more the Vijay government, you know, gains strength, you know, as the days pass by, it's going
22:34to become very difficult for DMK to revive.
22:36Even in this case, the Mudras High Court has, you know, put a rider that they cannot be given permanent
22:41jobs till the court goes into actually the legality and other aspects.
22:46So, this is a temporary thing that has happened.
22:48I mean, this is not final.
22:49But at the same time, if you see Vijay's address today in Karoor, it was only a portion of it
22:55was on the Karoor episode.
22:57The lot of it is a kind of a rebuttal to the DMK's narrative.
23:01So, you can see, and this is preparing the ground, and the worst of fears of the DMK is, if
23:07and when by-elections are held, the fear is that the honeymoon period of Vijay has just started.
23:14So, it is quite possible, and that is something worrying the allies like communists also, and allies like Trumavadavan.
23:20They fear that if Vijay gains more strength and gets a majority, you know, of his own, or with the
23:27addition of his ADMK people, then the things are going to get even more difficult.
23:31And the biggest fear of the DMK today is, as Vijay made it very clear, he is going to completely
23:37investigate all the cases of corruption.
23:40So, that is worrying everybody in the DMK.
23:44That is the reason also why, Preeti, in the DMK, there is a lot of debate going on, that now
23:51they should revisit their approach towards the Modi government.
23:55Well, you know, there is not much time, Sheikh Harai, we will know that soon enough.
23:59Monsoon session is starting on the 20th, and the DMK will, at least where the DMK stands on the Modi
24:05government, we will know that very quickly.
24:07But I will go across to Dr. Hafizullah on that, while we wait for the monsoon session, possibly two crucial
24:13bills.
24:13The DMK vote would really matter in those two crucial bills, but that is not what we are debating right
24:18now.
24:18And which side the DMK would vote is again in question.
24:21But, Dr. Hafizullah, to bring you in on this, the question is, or the charge is rather, that the DMK
24:26is clutching at straws.
24:28That you are desperate, you are down in the dumps, and this is your only way to try and claw
24:32back and get some relevance.
24:34No, no, no. The thing is very clear.
24:36I know, I really appreciate the compassion values that Satya Kumar carries for the victims of Karut tragedy.
24:43I respect that, I respect that.
24:45But, you know, the compassion values cannot change depending upon who the victim is.
24:5010 lakhs exgratia given by our previous government was not enough to the Karut tragedy victims.
24:55But, you know, in your own very government, you know, at least 17 people lost their life because of carelessness
25:01of your government.
25:02Ammonia leak happened.
25:0417 people lost their life.
25:05You know, how much was the exgratia given?
25:072 lakhs.
25:08Now they say, there is a policy, there is something, they are being governed by ESA.
25:12That's not the case, boss.
25:13What is the standard of the government?
25:15Can't you give 10 lakhs for that?
25:17How illogical can you be?
25:19How can you separate a victim on compassionate ground depending on their background?
25:24Because they can't do politics out of ammonia.
25:28Okay.
25:28So, Mansi Raman, the charge is your policy is selective.
26:01That is the point.
26:02There are so many acts to cover them.
26:04But here, if you see in Karur, it is in a public place where police should have notified my leader
26:10Talibati Vijay about the crowd.
26:11Instead, they took my leader into the crowd and all this episode happened.
26:16That's what my leader told today in Karur.
26:18We have to understand it's a gross negligence of the state.
26:21The matter is under investigation.
26:23Nobody is an accused.
26:24But you can see very well, police is the authority to judge what is the level of the crowd.
26:31They are the authority.
26:32Please note this.
26:33Because they are the state, they can even cancel it.
26:36They can even say that leader Talibati Vijay need not come inside the crowd.
26:40But they did not do that in Karur.
26:42That shows gross negligence by the state.
26:45First of all, the question comes, if the crowd is uncontrollable, why did they allow my leader Talibati Vijay to
26:52enter the crowd?
26:53Why did they allow the first to enter?
26:55All right.
26:55You know, I don't have much time because I'm trying to give equal time to all.
26:58And I need to end the show.
26:59But I thank all four of you for taking the time out and joining us this evening, I'm sure.
27:03This is going to be a debate that is going to be carried on.
27:05And very soon it's going to turn around to where the DMK stands this monsoon session.
27:09And that would be hotly debated in television studios and outside.
27:14So we're going to have most of the guests that you just saw back right here on India Today.
27:19With that, I want to shift focus, viewers.
27:21Now, to news that came in late last night when Anandi Ben-Pater, who is the governor of Uttar Pradesh,
27:29attended the convocation ceremony of a lot of students, over a lack of students, who were getting their degrees in
27:36Kanpur.
27:36A governor's advice to women graduates has now snowballed into a huge controversy.
27:44Speaking at a university, a convocation in Kanpur, Uttar Pradesh,
27:48U.P. Governor Anandi Ben-Pater urged women to first become expert mothers.
27:53Now, whatever expert means here, expert mothers, before aspiring to become IAS, IPS officers or teachers.
28:01The remark has clearly sparked outrage.
28:14Before joining the IAS, become an expert mother.
28:18Not a line from the 1950s, a message in 2026.
28:24Delivered at a university convocation.
28:27A celebration of academic excellence.
28:29But one message from Uttar Pradesh Governor Anandi Ben-Pater has now overshadowed the degrees and sparked a nationwide debate.
28:59The irony is hard to miss.
29:02This was a convocation where women did not just participate, they excelled.
29:091,07,713 degrees awarded.
29:13Women won nearly 82% of all medals.
29:17Priya Yadav bagged the Chancellor's gold medal and four more medals.
29:23And the irony runs even deeper.
29:26Anandi Ben-Pater herself broke political barriers.
29:31For decades in public life, former Gujarat Education Minister, handled women and child welfare, first woman Chief Minister of Gujarat,
29:41held constitutional posts as Governor, has been Uttar Pradesh Governor since 2019.
29:48The remarks triggered immediate outrage, and one question echoed across social media.
29:55Would the same advice have been given to the male graduates?
30:02For the seventh straight year, women have outnumbered men in undergraduate enrolment.
30:09Female GER stands at 31.2, higher than 28.9 for men.
30:15Women now account for over 42% of higher education enrolment.
30:21Families are investing in their daughter's education like never before.
30:26But education still does not guarantee equal opportunity.
30:32Female labour force participation stands at just 32.8%.
30:37Nearly 48% of Indian women exit the workforce mid-career.
30:42Women make up less than 20% of corporate India's workforce.
30:47Only 17% reach the sea level.
30:52The higher the ladder, the fewer the women.
30:55India tells its daughters to dream big.
30:58The data shows they already are.
31:01They are topping universities, winning medals and outnumbering men in classrooms.
31:07Yet the message they keep hearing is, before you lead the country, lead the home.
31:13So here's the question.
31:14Who decides what an expert mother is?
31:18And why must a woman's ambition still come with conditions?
31:23Bureau Report, India Today.
31:30Alright, Bureau.
31:31So what we really did was, we got a former governor,
31:35someone who's been a trailblazer like Anandi Ben Patel.
31:38And we spoke with her, Dr. Kiran Bedi,
31:41former Puducherry, Lieutenant Governor and IPS officer.
31:45So she's a bit of both.
31:46She's an IPS officer.
31:47Anandi Ben Patel had said that before you become an IPS IS officer,
31:51be an expert mother.
31:53And she's also a governor, or has been a governor of Puducherry,
31:56a position that Anandi Ben Patel holds right now.
31:59So, Dr. Bedi, thank you for taking the time out and joining us this evening.
32:04I know you have a flight to catch.
32:06I'll ask you my first question.
32:07You've been a governor of a state.
32:09You understand the importance that position carries,
32:13especially an area of influence for young people who look up to you.
32:17What do you make of the statement by the UP governor, Anandi Ben Patel?
32:24Well, then she's only reflecting her own mind, which was not known yet.
32:30She said something which she believed in herself and was not public.
32:36So that obviously would be influencing many of her decisions as a governor.
32:41So it's quite unfortunate.
32:45Ma'am, what do you call an unfortunate personal statement?
32:48It was made at a public forum as well.
32:50And to just take you through, 82% of the young girls,
32:54of the entire medals that were distributed of exemplary academic accomplishment yesterday
32:59at this university, on which was presiding as chief guest, Miss Anandi Ben Patel,
33:0582% of those medals went to young girls.
33:08What message do you think this sends across to impressionable young minds of girls?
33:14A lot of them coming, some from impoverished backgrounds or deeply patriarchal households.
33:24Yes, it is.
33:25It is not fitting at all.
33:27And I think it was not at all relevant, not at all correct and appropriate in the current
33:31circumstances when we, in fact, now we are encouraging more and more women even to take up STEM
33:37to become scientists.
33:38So, I think it was not fitting.
33:43I don't know.
33:43You know, she alone can explain why, in what context she said it and why she said it.
33:48Even if it was, there was a context, there was a context.
33:51She needs to explain it.
33:54You know, to add more context to this, because what we've been looking at right here,
33:59our team on To The Point, Miss Dr. Bedi, we've been going through data.
34:04While the data that we get is stunning in terms of, you know, young girls in schools, in colleges,
34:11early education, doing mostly better than men.
34:13We've seen every time that there are board results that come out.
34:16There are IIT results that come out.
34:18Girls usually outperform boys.
34:20But when it comes to jobs and the latest figures, and I've looked at three latest studies,
34:2670% women leave work after childbirth.
34:2869% of urban women outside the workforce cite child care and housework as the main reason
34:35that they cannot come back.
34:3645% of women outside the labor force nationally report child care and homemaking commitments
34:42as an impediment to come back to work.
34:45When we are attuned with data such as this, messaging like that could completely send the wrong signal.
34:55It's truly regressive.
34:57It's a very negative message and it's regressive.
35:01And obviously, I don't think it will be taken as a message.
35:05They would probably reject it.
35:07In a way, the women in the convocation must have rejected it and must have wondered why is
35:14a position as a woman and a governor of the state has said this.
35:19In fact, she must, I don't think it will leave any influence on the women today.
35:24It will only give impression that somebody in such a position should not have said it.
35:32But Dr. Bedi, that's the sad part, isn't it?
35:35Because if you look at Miss Anandi Ben Patel's career, it's exemplary.
35:39She's been a trailblazer in her own might.
35:41How well she's done politically.
35:43And I will take our viewers through her trajectory later.
35:46So with that also comes responsibility because you're in such a position of power and influence.
35:52Shouldn't she have maybe thought over what could be the impact of the message?
36:01Priti, it just goes without saying.
36:03When women in such position, men or women, in influential position and also going into
36:10an influential event, which they know as a message, there's a messaging, that's why
36:16they've been called, that there's a message to be given from a position of authority and
36:21influence.
36:21I think such people should be exceedingly careful in what they say.
36:26They may have personal beliefs, but then they could keep the personal beliefs to themselves,
36:31particularly when they are speaking to a very influential section of society.
36:39You know, that's what I'm saying.
36:41You know, that's, well, that is the sad part.
36:43And one would have thought that she would have maybe weighed her words better.
36:47Allow me to ask you this, Dr. Bedi.
36:50You've been the governor.
36:51I'm sure you've had the privilege of presiding over many such events as chief guests.
36:55What would your message be to young girls who possibly attended your events or who are
37:00watching you right now?
37:05Is find your own identity.
37:07My message to the girls, girls is now realize your identity.
37:11You are less than nobody else.
37:13And number two, do not get into, get into, into situation of domesticity till you are self-reliant.
37:23My message is we do not get into domesticity till you are self-reliant.
37:28Self-reliance now, just as a man starts thinking on his own, what does he, how will he be a
37:34provider?
37:35So should women with the growth should start thinking, how will they be a provider?
37:40Provider to themselves, provider to the families they may choose to, and providing to their parents
37:46who also they owe responsibility.
37:48So my message to the young girls would be, grow up to be providers like nobody else, as
37:54boys grow up to be providers.
37:56Both of them as responsible providers.
38:00Well, Dr. Bedi, thank you for saying it for what it is, and thank you for being you.
38:04I appreciate it, ma'am.
38:06And I know you have a flight, have a safe flight.
38:08Thank you for joining us.
38:09Because I'd like to also add a little bit more context here.
38:12Yes, what Anandi Ben Patel said was deeply troubling, but she did say other things as well.
38:18She did say that women should not drop out of education, they should study, even after
38:23marriage they should look at nation building and try and contribute to nation building.
38:27She also said everyone should know how to cook.
38:30Some read it as maybe she's only talking to the women and the young girls there, because
38:34she said it in that context.
38:36But when she says everyone, it could possibly mean everyone in terms of the boys there as
38:40well.
38:40But this was this one particular sentence, which has been deeply troubling and understandably
38:45so.
38:45What does efficient mothers really mean?
38:47A lot of mothers out there would be suggesting what is the definition of an efficient mother.
38:53But that aside, is that a precondition to ambition?
38:56And that is troubling if it is.
38:57Rhea Mukherjee, author activist, joins me.
38:59Rhea, your quick comment on that.
39:04You're in mute.
39:05You're in mute.
39:08Sorry, I wanted to say that, you know, what troubles me the most is that this was said
39:13to a group of students at a convocation.
39:16And in 2026, the reason that she can make a statement like this, the governor, is because
39:23we live in a society that is so grossly unequal that it's a tiny minority of women who can
39:29even dream of the word autonomy.
39:32But otherwise, statements like this, I do think that they are dangerous because they
39:36imprison the minds or, you know, reinforce these ideas on society.
39:40And it's worse when a woman says it herself, because especially at the position and the age she's
39:48at, because it does get passed on as authority and wisdom.
39:54I was talking to a friend of mine today who is a well-known feminist and poet, Alina, and she
40:01said
40:01something that I just wanted to share because it was so well put.
40:05And she said that motherhood over here in this context is being framed as an obligation, not a
40:10choice, which makes it a prison or a correction center, something that makes women ready for
40:17everything else life has to offer, like becoming an IAS officer only after she's had children.
40:24Forget the definition of what makes a good mother.
40:28And I also want to make it very clear, even though that this sounds harsh, that we are living
40:33in a country where a woman's imagination and body is largely controlled by her husband and
40:42their families, especially in, you know, caste and drug feminist marriages that are widely
40:46practiced in India.
40:48So, you know, in this context for her to say this, I think it is dangerous because there
40:55are people who cannot afford to dismiss it as fringe or just, you know, oh, then, you
41:00know, she just said something as a controversial thing because it does impact societies, especially
41:07women who are the least empowered by class and caste or living in small towns and villages where
41:14these things only reinforce the way society thinks.
41:19Ria, thank you for joining us with your opinion.
41:21And you are right.
41:22It is unfortunate that she said it where she said it.
41:25I personally feel it's unfortunate because of who she is.
41:29And here are my two cents on that.
41:32Because she was the first woman chief minister of Gujarat, the second woman governor of Uttar
41:39Pradesh after Sarojini Naidu.
41:41The only woman and one of very few men to have served as governor of three different states
41:47on three separate occasions.
41:48She won four consecutive assembly elections in Gujarat, served three terms as cabinet minister
41:55and was also a Rajya Sabha MP.
41:59For a woman born in pre-independent India in the early 1940s, Anandi Ben Patel's journey
42:06stands as one of the defining stories of women empowerment in Indian politics.
42:11And that, viewers, is precisely why it is so disappointing when someone with such an extraordinary legacy
42:19appears to stand in the way of the empowerment of other women.
42:24Breaking the glass ceiling for any woman is an extraordinary achievement in this country
42:28and we all know that.
42:29We can deny it, but we know it.
42:30But when you do, when a woman does break the glass ceiling, ensuring that others can break
42:36it too is what defines lasting legacy.
42:40So did Anandi Ben Patel, the governor of Uttar Pradesh, do herself the biggest disservice when
42:48she said women should try to become an expert mother before aspiring to become an IAS officer,
42:54an IPS officer or a teacher?
42:56Yes, I believe she did herself a bigger disservice than her audience because Anandi Ben Patel made
43:04the comment when as chief guest she was addressing students, parents, faculty at the 41st convocation
43:10ceremony of Chhatrapati Shahuji Maharaj University in Kanpur, a convocation ceremony where degrees
43:17were conferred to over one lakh students and 82% of the medal holders there were women, where
43:25she advised young women to pick being an efficient mother before becoming an IAS officer or a
43:31teacher.
43:32The tragedy is that such a message comes from someone whose own life trajectory, her own
43:39professional trajectory is the strongest argument against it.
43:43When someone who has spent a lifetime defying convention appears to suggest that motherhood
43:48should precede professional ambition.
43:51It risks reinforcing the very stereotypes that generations of women have struggled to dismantle.
43:57It subtly shifts the burden back onto women, implying that before they can aspire to lead,
44:02to govern, to teach or serve, they must first prove themselves in a role that society has traditionally
44:09assigned to them, being a mother, that they have to earn the right to pursue a career and that right
44:16comes through childbirth.
44:17No one questions the importance or dignity of motherhood but motherhood is one choice amongst
44:23many, not a prerequisite for public service or professional excellence and some would question
44:29what is the definition of an expert mother.
44:31In any case, what does that quite mean?
44:33We don't know.
44:34For countless young women navigating careers in a society still shaped by patriarchal expectations,
44:40role models like Anandi Ben Patel matter.
44:44Their words matter even more.
44:45When those who have broken the glass ceiling like her appear to reinforce it, they do more
44:51than just disappoint.
44:53They risk legitimizing the very barriers they have once overcome.
44:57The question is not if young Indian girls or women should become efficient mothers before
45:02thinking of becoming IES, IPS officers or teachers.
45:06The question is, was the governor of Uttar Pradesh, Anandi Ben Patel, an efficient role model
45:12for young girls with young dreams, most coming from deep-seated patriarchal backgrounds?
45:18Unfortunately, Anandi Ben Patel answered that question herself.
45:23Not efficient enough.
45:24To tell a young girl that ambition is conditional is not what trailblazers do.
45:29Instead, they leave the path wider for her to pass through.
45:40All right, the latest news break right now coming in.
45:42The Lucknow Development Authority officials have fixed a notice on the building where a
45:47massive fire in a coaching institute in the Aliganja area resulted in the death of 15 people
45:51on the 22nd of June.
45:53Through this notice, the LDA grants permission to demolish the building because the owners have
45:58failed to show cause against issuance of such an order.
46:05All right, so that's the latest news break that is coming in.
46:08A fire had engulfed a coaching institute in Lucknow on the 22nd of June.
46:13This was in the Aliganja area of Lucknow.
46:18And today, and that was the fire that had claimed 15 lives.
46:21Now, the authorities have posted a notice, the Lucknow Development Authority, the LDA,
46:28have fixed a notice on the building where this fire took place, stating that the LDA has
46:36now granted permission to demolish the building because the owners have failed to show cause
46:41against issuance of such an order.
46:44Ashish Srivastar joins us for more.
46:46Ashish, what's more?
46:52This building, which was just, you can say that it was the main reason that this building
46:59accused was connected with this building and 15 persons who have been died now.
47:04And this is what now today, Lucknow Development Authority has issued a notice to bulldoze this
47:10building within 15 days.
47:13And also, Lucknow Development Authority has given instructions that the building must be
47:18demolished by themselves.
47:21If they don't do, then the LDA, Lucknow Development Authority, will demolish this building within
47:2715 days.
47:28It means that the 15 days' time has been given to the owner of this building.
47:35So in such case, the SIT is also going on, this investigation is also going on in this whole
47:42case.
47:42And this is what this time because Lucknow Development Authority has found many lapses in this building,
47:49and it was not proper mapped.
47:51But it was not constructed according to the map, which was, you know, just passed by the Lucknow
47:59Development Authority.
48:00And this is what the authority has given now.
48:03Today, a notice has been issued by the authority.
48:07And to this action will be taken soon.
48:10After 15 days, the bulldoze action will be taken.
48:13Alright, so the bulldozer will roll on the building, which had caught fire and claimed the lives
48:19of 15 people.
48:20This is in Lucknow.
48:22Ali Ganjaria, Ashish Srivastar, thank you for giving us the latest information.
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