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00:00here on a monday mike is away this week i am the bulldog thanks for tuning in to wgr and
00:05you've
00:06arrived here at an opportune time because one of our very favorite guests ever is on the western
00:11hotline he is greg wachinski espn's fantastic national hockey league reporter writer and all
00:20around good guy greg good afternoon nice to talk to you again always uh appreciate you answering
00:25the calls whenever we do call no worries man uh as as we've seen so far this off season uh
00:34there
00:34isn't really a break for the nhl anymore it's it's kind of crazy i mean like this thing gets i've
00:42been
00:42doing this job for a very long time and there certainly was a moment in july where most everybody
00:47just said all right i'm off to the cottage and we don't hear from them until september uh but now
00:53the cottage time is like maybe like uh six days in august otherwise everybody's working i'm glad
01:00you started there because um we've had i don't know how often in the summer i know we talked to
01:07you through these seasons multiple times mike and i have been in this room together we started doing
01:12this show together in september of 2003 so it's been a been a haul and you know the sabers existence
01:19has for a lot of that time been really challenging like the highs were pretty high but there's a lot
01:25of lows and consistently one of the worst is trade deadline day our trade deadline day and free agency
01:35day because the sabers have often really there was one year mike will point out that they had darcy
01:41regere doing a chat with fans online at noon on free agency day and we were like shouldn't you be
01:47talking to people not fans like talking to players and agents anyway so there's a lot of scar tissue
01:53there for for both of us and on wednesday yarmulkeke line in four hours into free agency decides to hold
02:04a news conference where greg honest to god you mentioned the cottage it sounded to me like yeah
02:08all right i'm i'm i'm off to the muskocas we'll see you later and i thought isn't there still a
02:15lot
02:15of stuff that could get done here so do you feel like this will be a different summer than it's
02:19been
02:20is that why you led with that sure i mean like we're already seeing it i mean think about how
02:25many
02:25how many dangling threads of of of uh big stories are still out there right now jason robertson
02:32obviously with dallas that's the the biggest name we're all trying to figure out what's going to
02:37happen with he filed for salary arbitration like you mentioned with krebs in the update he did the
02:42same thing yesterday so it could be a one-year deal with what would be the largest ever arbitration
02:49award to a player if if it gets that far uh that would walk him to unrestricted free agency or
02:55you know dallas is going to figure this thing out in the next couple of weeks then you got the
02:59dylan larkin situation in detroit where he asks out and he's got five years left in his contract and
03:05see if eisman's like good luck with that if you don't expand your trade uh your trade limitations
03:11beyond three teams i don't know how this is going to play out um you know and then you know
03:16a
03:16situation that certainly has impacted the sabers which is the connor hellebuck situation in winnipeg
03:21where depending on who you talk to is he's unhappy and he's looking to get out or he's not i
03:27mean the
03:27only thing i know for certain about that situation is that you know as of about two weeks ago kevin
03:32shovel day off their general manager was certainly fielding offers for hellebuck but had not gotten to the
03:38level of here are the players i would need to make it happen although there have been reports to say
03:43that maybe it did go that far with buffalo so you know those those situations are going to play out
03:48over the next month maybe more than that in larkin's case maybe all the way to training camp
03:52um so it's uh it's definitely an off season that's that feels more extended than usual well that is
03:58welcome news to for myself and i would hope for a lot of our audience because i'm having a hard
04:04time
04:05greg like i i i like the some of the young kids here helen use and ausland and yuri kulik
04:11is coming
04:11back and there's a lot still to like they just drafted fourth overall uh a week ago friday and and
04:18got other young big defensemen coming as well as the kid they just drafted this year so like it's good
04:24to see the thing get restocked and and be bullish on the young guys but i'm having a hard time
04:30figuring
04:31out how like today and how on you know whatever camp opens and whenever the season opener is
04:37you'll be able to tell me the sabers are a better team because they they lost byram and tuck and
04:42like
04:43byram greg to me was their best player in the boston series he's kind of got lost in the montreal
04:48series same with tuck was excellent versus boston second round nowhere near as productive or noticeable
04:55but still those were guys that really drove a lot of play for this team and i don't know man
05:02as high
05:02as you can get on a kid i just i don't think they're anywhere near as good as they were
05:08before
05:08these moves happened so i think i still need this long summer runway to make sure the team you know
05:14keeps going in the right direction yeah but but i i think the fun thing about buffalo right now
05:21is that in the past when they've taken the long view on things it's been in that desperate journey
05:29back to the playoffs and and just wait it'll be different this time and you know and and and you
05:35know that cycle played out at least what like 17 times over the last you know 13 years and what's
05:42different this time is that you do kind of feel like that your arm of the line and it is
05:46taking more
05:46of the long view here in the sense of we don't want to commit the money in the years that
05:51alex
05:51talk is looking for because we've got other business elsewhere and although we'll miss the
05:56the output we think that contract might not age well and in in byram's case obviously the same sort
06:02of considerations contractually i mean what he's going to get from chicago is going to blow our minds
06:08you know or you know has blown our minds it's it's it's so that that decision gets made and then
06:13you
06:14know you look at the roster at some of the names that you mentioned helenius obviously 20 zach benson
06:19who they sign is 21 you know you go along austin's 22 and then they go on and and get
06:26a pretty decent
06:27player at number four overall in the draft and i like them using that pick rather than trading it
06:31the idea that they've made the playoffs they've broken the drought and now you can kind of make some
06:40challenging gutsy decisions with with players that certainly had an impact but do so with an eye towards
06:46a sustained contention a sustained uh relevancy um i think is is to yarmo's credit it's not going to be
06:55that popular in some places but i do think that there is some logic to the way that he's operating
07:01right now even if the team might have to take a slight step back next year i think a lot
07:05of the
07:05fan base as popular a player as tuck was this would describe me i don't mean to make it seem
07:10like i i
07:11represent a lot of the fan base but i think i had a lot of company in this take like
07:14tuck was a super
07:15valuable important player face of the franchise type stuff right kevin adams talked when he took
07:21over i need guys when he's trading eichel and reinhardt and wrist align and i need guys who want
07:25to be here and talk is you know from the syracuse area so that worked well enough um but yeah
07:31his age
07:32the contract like there certainly was a point where i could agree with okay i'm not i'm not going there
07:39i'm not it's too it's too rich but where's the where's the replacement that can grow a playoff beard
07:45you know like that's that's the thing and that's why i i like hearing that you think you're getting
07:51the sense that business will still continue here into the summer past the traditional windows for
07:57trades to be made because i i still think the sabers it sure sounded like yarmo was gonna be
08:05even going back to the trade deadline greg like he was big game hunting
08:08and you know i like olin zellweger just fine as a replacement for byron that's a that's a good
08:14enough idea to me to get behind it but i'm still waiting for that one other big thing yeah and
08:22and
08:22it's it's even better when you when you see what anaheim just spent on their other rfa uh free agent
08:29uh michikov i mean like spending upwards of seven million on him and and then what buffalo locked
08:35you know have have uh zellweger locked in at you know it's it's um you know i like you said
08:42the
08:42business probably continues i know there have been some reports about someone like jack quinn's name
08:47for example maybe being out there as far as a trip to be used to to improve the team with
08:53another
08:54veteran player but overall i mean like i said i'm i'm comfortable with the build that's happening
09:00right now with the foundation that's been laid and um you know i i'd rather them kind of take
09:06the slow and steady wins the race kind of philosophy here than trying to go out and find you know
09:14someone slightly younger than alex tuck that you hope can be alex tuck who by the way you know for
09:19all for all the things we're saying about you know growing a beard and playing in the playoffs and
09:23everything else i mean it was kind of a disaster by the end of that post montreal series he was
09:30a
09:30ghost yeah i agree yeah which we should we shouldn't probably lose sight of yeah no that's that's fair
09:35uh greg wachinski espn nhl uh on the western hotline here on wgr in buffalo um so the hellebuck idea
09:44how
09:45how good an idea is that in in your mind and um like what should i be bracing to give
09:51up if if the
09:52sabers were to get that across the finish line here you think well i mean it obviously probably
09:56starts with with upl i mean given that he's uh you know six or i think than alex lyon um
10:04you know
10:04that's a guy that obviously winnipeg could have around for for a good amount of time um and then beyond
10:10beyond that your guess is as good as mine in so far as like what the jets would want back
10:14and
10:14and also you know the behind the scenes part of it that's the part that we we never really know
10:20you know we never really know how bad things are for example for brady could chuck on the ground
10:26in ottawa before that trade to florida and then it all comes out afterwards you know what i mean so
10:31like uh what what is the necessity to trade hellebuck like has he voiced more than we know behind the
10:37scenes has he not you know what is a trade market look like has he narrowed it because of his
10:43protection
10:44down to you know maybe just a couple of teams and buffalo's one of them it's it's all these things
10:49are
10:50are out there and then the other part of it too when it comes to a goaltender even when it's
10:54somebody
10:54who we all consider to be the best goaltender in the league is there aren't always teams that need
11:00one you know and and that's that narrows the field in a way that it's not narrowed for for skaters
11:06or defensemen and so then that becomes also the question of like who are you actually negotiating
11:11against what's that market look like and then that's going to determine ultimately the the return
11:16for the jets yeah i i it's funny greg you know the way i was really intrigued by the matthew
11:23nye's
11:24chatter um leading up to the draft and hopeful because you wanted to find a younger plug-and-play
11:30replacement for tuck i know there's maybe some defensive shortcomings that would need to be
11:34brushed up on but that was like custom made i love that it never really made sense to me that
11:39toronto would divest themselves and they haven't so maybe they never will or at least not immediately
11:44but that was a really cool idea and eventually i didn't love the hella book idea like spending
11:52assets on a 30-ish year old goalie you know the contract is reasonable he's been great i just worry
11:59about any cliff coming and being stuck there but as the offseason goes by and i matthew nye's thing
12:08cools off i don't think the sabers were ever on dylan larkin's list um like what else am i going
12:14to do
12:14all right well the goalie at least that's a at least you're firing a shot you're taking a shot
12:19um but it was never my favorite idea where do you think larkin like where does that go like as
12:26he had
12:27to expand his list because again i don't think that's a player i think he's reported to be very
12:33good friends with jack eichel and after the surgery debacle of a few years ago i have a hard time
12:37seeing
12:37larkin go yeah okay maybe i'm making something out of nothing there but i just i wouldn't expect him to
12:42ever be an option for the sabers um what ends up happening there do you think yeah i mean vegas
12:49is on his list and i think it's on his list because he's friends with eichel in in the same
12:54way that uh you know minnesota is on his list because he's got guys there and florida was on
12:59his list because he's got guys there um you know i i think where it's headed with larkin is is
13:05that
13:06he he doesn't he doesn't hold the hammer here like like kachuk warinski quinn hughes before them
13:13these guys had the pressure point of okay my contract's up in two years and i'm not going to
13:20sign long term so now you have that knowledge and and you can do with it as you as you'd
13:25like
13:25and in vancouver's case they traded him to minnesota and in ottawa's case they traded kachuk to
13:31florida and then warinski is is you know probably going to be moved at some point but only to a
13:37team
13:37of his liking as the dallas stars found out pretty pretty severely last week um in larkin's case he
13:44doesn't have the hammer he's he signed for five more years and so it's it's fine that he's gone to
13:49steve eiserman and said i want to trade and then it's fine that he's going to see steve eiserman and
13:53said here are the three teams i want um the problem is that steve eiserman can be like well i'm
13:58just
13:58going to wait until you expand that list sir because i don't think that those teams can really
14:03give me the return that i want for my captain a number one center in this league and so where
14:09it's
14:09going is probably deeper into the summer and then maybe even to training camp where um larkin is either
14:15going to have to walk into that dressing room as a captain who's abandoned his ship or sit out and
14:21not
14:22get paid until a trade manifests and so i think ultimately eiserman holds the cards here
14:28as far as having the pressure points to apply to larkin to have him expand his his trade horizon
14:35um or else it's going to get real uncomfortable real quick when the calendar flips to september
14:39can i get tage thompson to give dylan larkin a call they played on a line together in the olympics
14:45come on i need i need i need something i need recruiting here because that i mean that's a dreamy
14:50idea to
14:50me the contract is reasonable his age works um but i've just sort of stricken it from the record
14:56because i just don't i can't imagine it i wouldn't be surprised if a call was made you know
15:03there's nothing wrong with these guys talking like i one of the things i i wrote about the
15:07washington capitals last week and how they've you know really nailed the summer and have all these
15:12amazing acquisitions including alex tuck and it's amazing how open these guys are insofar as like the
15:18minute there's interest from a team how many texts and phone calls they make to guys that are on the
15:23team or guys that have played there to get the 4-1-1 on what it's like um and so
15:28in some cases
15:29it's just kind of you know what's the lay of the land is the coach cool or not um you
15:33know what are
15:34the schools like but these conversations happen all the time and and it's funny how like a general
15:39manager can get you know like a hundred thousand dollar fine from the nhl if they say the wrong thing
15:43during an interview about a player that's not under contract but these players these players can just
15:48trade notes uh you know a little on late night phone conversations all they want there's no
15:53repercussions for it um greg wuschinski on the western hotline with us for just a couple of more
15:58minutes here um before we get to the offer sheet bombshell from the weekend with anaheim and philly
16:04and leo carlson um well i want to ask you about toronto because they were very busy um there's a
16:10lot of
16:10new names and faces um and you know some big some big names and faces they made the big sign
16:16and trade
16:16with radish uh they get pabrowski uh like overall what do you make of i think they're going to be
16:23faster i at least have to give them that like the i think almost every guy they signed you know
16:28aside
16:28from the goalie uh is going to add to their speed which could add to their ability to defend etc
16:34etc
16:34but are they just rearranging chairs at this point you think or do you think they took a step
16:40they've got an interesting mix like obviously austin matthews willie nylander
16:45you could throw knives in that quarter too is is is interesting uh and quite good um then you
16:51have the next wave with gavin mckenna who they took first overall along with easton cowan who's a good
16:57player um and so you've got a couple of young guys there but like a lot of the stuff that
17:03they did in
17:03this in this offseason it kind of feels like john chayka the new gm and matt sundin who's right there
17:10with them are making a lot of changes to show that they're they're doing some busy work you know
17:15what i mean like it reminds me of when i was in math class and i would just throw a
17:20bunch of numbers
17:20around on my answer sheet to make it look like i was doing equations but i wasn't really because i
17:25didn't know how to do it um and so you get some i mean there's some some some of the
17:30moves they made
17:31it like i mean i'm a big nick paul fan who they got from the tampa bay lightning a less
17:35less so a
17:36jack roslavik fan and you know there's some other guys that they've they've acquired that are kind of
17:41more in that that mode but like what does it ultimately add up to you look at like you look
17:45at a team like washington and their acquisitions are like alex tuck and jordan cairo right and then
17:51you look at what what the leafs have done and it's kind of like just a scatter shot of different
17:56contracts that might there might make their bottom six better but ultimately what is it what does it do
18:01for a team does it does it elevate them to the level level of florida and carolina and washington
18:06probably not um but they're they're better they'll be better just not like elite level better
18:12how much of a fan or not are you of what philadelphia has done here with anaheim
18:18i'm a huge fan because i think carlson's great like i'm a huge leo carlson i'm i'm holding a lot
18:23of stock on leo carlson as a guy who when you watch him he kind of looks like a faster
18:27evgeny malkin
18:28now he hasn't put up the numbers malkin put up as as a young player in fact i think he's
18:33tapped
18:34out at like 69 points or 67 points in that neighborhood but i mean he i think he's got
18:38the potential to be a real force as a number one center in this league and the two things i
18:44like
18:44about it are first of all you know the cap is going up exponentially every year to the point where
18:50this contract might not look as egregious as it does right now when you start to see the money that
18:56macar gets the money that bedard gets the money that celebrini could get like this is just the first
19:02of many contracts that are going to you know be higher than what caprizov made on his deal
19:07just because of the economics and the league and plus you've got to do it in order to make it
19:12the
19:12offer sheet successful and entice uh anaheim not to match but the second thing is like you know
19:19the flyers made the playoff last year they won around they're a rick tocket team which means to
19:24just kind of kind of be around the playoff bubble whether they make it or not most years
19:29what what are these first round picks going to do for you like you're not going to find leo carlson
19:33with any of them so you might as well sacrifice them and in service of acquiring a 21 year old
19:38number one center which is a thing that unless you're going to tank you're not going to get in
19:42this league so i i like the move for philly i'm pretty sure the the ducks are going to match
19:47just
19:47because they have to um unless you know again behind the scenes we don't know necessarily if
19:53carlson's just like i don't want to be here anymore in which case then maybe they they take the
19:57picks who's who's who can tell these days yeah i just love that it's so like i mean it's evidence
20:04of competitiveness which you know you don't always see like teams for whatever reasons over the years
20:09greg have been reluctant to do these i mean i know we had we had a couple last year but
20:14those were
20:14modest with edmonton and st louis um this is just such a it's like shades of of shea weber is
20:22is what
20:22you've got uh with this one how bad a job if at all a bad job do you think pat
20:28for beak did in not
20:29getting out ahead of this and letting it get to the point where you know carlson was vulnerable
20:36or they were vulnerable it was it was terrible like like i i had i had one nhl executive say
20:43that
20:43it's a fireable offense uh that that pat verbeek allowed this to get where it did i mean if you
20:49look
20:49at all the players that signed well before it got to this point i mean you're talking lane hudson
20:55in montreal logan cooley in utah brant clark in la um you know the the oilers locked up evan bouchard
21:03last june before he could get an offer sheet it's like all these teams take care of this business early
21:08for a reason which is to not let it linger this long and and the thing about verbeek and the
21:14ducks
21:14that we know for a fact is that they grind out these deals with their young players they did it
21:20with zegris they did it with jamie drysdale they did it with mason mctavish and all three of those
21:25guys are no longer in anaheim and so yeah there's a way to do this and and they they've taken
21:31a path
21:32that says we're gonna we're gonna nickel and dime these guys on these contracts that otherwise
21:37should be a little bit higher given where the cap's going and it it it bit him in the ass
21:42this time
21:42like it really cost them to have played this game with with carlson and not have realized
21:48that the economics of the league and the boldness of teams has gotten to the point where there was
21:53going to be an offer sheet put on them i think that i read that in your in your piece
21:57i believe
21:58about like arguing over every ten thousand dollars or something was just something yeah like
22:04boy for all the you know the contracts that kevin adams handed out while he was in charge here early
22:11with tage thompson and dylan cousins and um owen power and matthia samuelson weren't all met with
22:18you know neither derision nor universal applause it's like you're really seven million bucks for
22:23that guy but boy you look you look at it now and and sure like cousins ended up getting traded
22:28but he still looks every bit to me now like the year he had last year he's a six million
22:33dollar
22:33hockey player and obviously thompson is one of the biggest bargains in the entire league
22:38yeah for sure and samuelson too yeah right right
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