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Брекзит усилил или ослабил Европу: спор евродепутатов в программе The Ring
Чему Брекзит научил Европу в вопросах суверенитета, миграции, конкурентоспособности, демократии и дезинформации? Укрепил ли он аргументы в пользу более тесной интеграции ЕС? В этом выпуске «The Ring» депутаты ЕП обсуждают будущее отношений ЕС и Великобритании.
ЧИТАТЬ ДАЛЕЕ : http://ru.euronews.com/2026/06/26/brekzit-usilil-ili-oslabil-evropu-spor-evrodeputatov-v-programme-the-ring
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Чему Брекзит научил Европу в вопросах суверенитета, миграции, конкурентоспособности, демократии и дезинформации? Укрепил ли он аргументы в пользу более тесной интеграции ЕС? В этом выпуске «The Ring» депутаты ЕП обсуждают будущее отношений ЕС и Великобритании.
ЧИТАТЬ ДАЛЕЕ : http://ru.euronews.com/2026/06/26/brekzit-usilil-ili-oslabil-evropu-spor-evrodeputatov-v-programme-the-ring
Подписывайтесь: Euronews можно смотреть на Dailymotion на 12 языках
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00:08Субтитры сделал DimaTorzok
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01:43Let's meet them!
01:45Barry Andrews, an Irish MEP from the Liberal Renew Europe Group.
01:49He's the chair of the Committee on Development,
01:52vice chair of the Delegation for Relations with Palestine,
01:55and a member of the Delegation to the EU-UK Parliamentary Partnership Assembly.
01:59On the 10th anniversary of the Brexit vote, he says,
02:02Brexit was and is a con job.
02:05The UK has not been as invisible and irrelevant on the European stage as it is now,
02:10since, in my view, before the Battle of Agincourt of 1415.
02:16Sander Smit, a Dutch MEP from the European Conservatives and Reformists Group.
02:21He serves in the Committee on Constitutional Affairs,
02:24and has also been vice chair of the Committee on Fisheries earlier in the current parliamentary term.
02:29We still deeply regret Brexit and miss the UK's crucial voice for fiscal and financial discipline in the European Council,
02:37he says.
02:38Our future lies in a stronger partnership.
02:40Let the UK and EU countries move beyond the past and work together as natural sovereign allies.
02:50So, Barry Andrews and Sander Smit, welcome to The Ring.
02:53Thanks for joining us.
02:54So, here we are, 10 years on.
02:57Has Brexit helped or hindered the European Union, Sander?
03:00I think it has really hindered the European Union in achieving a union,
03:03which also takes into account several national sensitivities, also protects the national veto.
03:09I think the United Kingdom would have been a very valuable ally for my own member state,
03:15but also for other member states in Council, and for my group in particular.
03:19Of course, the ECR Group was founded by the British Conservative Party,
03:22and we still sorely miss them, I think.
03:25You would agree, I'm sure, Barry Andrews, with that.
03:27The EU is in a weaker place now.
03:29Well, I think definitely the UK is in a weaker place.
03:31I think the European Union has a capacity to evolve,
03:34and I think there has been very significant developments in the European Union in the last 10 years and in
03:40the world.
03:41And the basic lesson is that we live in a much more contested world,
03:45and we're much better together as an EU 27.
03:49So, I think that we are beginning to learn that lesson,
03:51but for the UK, it has been a total disaster.
03:53What other lessons has Brussels and the EU learned in the past 10 years?
03:57I think we should learn from Brexit, first and foremost,
04:02that we need to respect national sovereignty,
04:05maybe also have tailored membership,
04:08not doing away with the Copenhagen criteria,
04:11but certain opt-outs,
04:12and not have a one-size-fits-all approach.
04:15And I think not controlling migration,
04:19not taking into account these national specificities,
04:22has really also caused Brexit.
04:24So, I think we need to self-reflect a bit.
04:27I think if you did self-reflect,
04:28you would recognise that actually Britain had a very tailor-made membership
04:33of the European Union for an awful long time,
04:35including being outside Schengen,
04:37including being outside the euro,
04:38and having a very, very differentiated form of membership.
04:43And this still wasn't enough on this occasion.
04:45And what has happened since then in the UK
04:48is that there has been a massive peak in migration.
04:51The UK economy has gone down very, very substantially.
04:54As we've just heard in the introduction,
04:56they've had seven prime ministers.
04:57So, this is a state of governance,
04:59which is absolutely disastrous.
05:00Oh, I absolutely agree.
05:01I just meant that if we as a European Union
05:04want to have the United Kingdom work together with us
05:07or eventually rejoin,
05:09I sense that you would be open to that,
05:11but you can comment on that later,
05:13we need to take into account these specificities.
05:16But now we see the European Commission
05:18and also European leaders
05:19evolving towards a more centralised approach of the Union
05:22with less tailor-made, less opt-outs,
05:25less possibilities to take these national issues.
05:27And we'll come back to that shortly,
05:28but I want to go back to the UK politics
05:30because, of course,
05:31seven prime ministers have come and gone
05:33since the Brexit vote.
05:34Is this because of Brexit,
05:35this political chaos we're seeing in the UK?
05:37Well, I mean,
05:38there's nobody looking to leave the European Union anymore.
05:41And there is a waiting room for membership
05:43that is bursting at the seams.
05:46So the one big takeaway is that
05:48I think in the contested geopolitical world
05:51that we live in now,
05:52we're much better together.
05:53Mark Carney articulated that very well
05:56for middle-sized countries,
05:58for Europe, for Canada.
05:59So I think Britain has learned that lesson
06:01in a very difficult way.
06:03Because we remember 10 years ago,
06:04when the vote happened,
06:05Nigel Farage said the European Union was dead
06:07and, quote, finished.
06:09We saw Marine Le Pen, Gerd Filders,
06:11calling for their countries to have a referendum.
06:13That's off the table now.
06:14It's all off the table.
06:15And even Mr. Willis never mentions Brexit or Brexit anymore.
06:21Never mentioned it.
06:21So, I mean, you know,
06:22it's for slow learners.
06:25We now have had a laboratory example
06:28of what happens when you leave the European Union,
06:30when you try to take back control,
06:32when you try to do things by yourself.
06:33It is clear that this has deepened
06:36the European Union's roots.
06:37It has enhanced the European Union's reputation.
06:40And that's why almost all of our neighborhood countries
06:43are thinking about joining,
06:44including Iceland, including Norway,
06:47including all the Western Balkans
06:48and Eastern Europe.
06:50And what about the situation in the UK?
06:52The EU and the UK were just getting back on track
06:55with those relations.
06:56An EU summit was supposed to be taking place
06:58at the end of July.
06:59It's now off the table.
07:00So what will the latest chaos mean for this relationship?
07:03Two things I would say to the Commission.
07:04First of all, it's right to delay the summit.
07:08Absolutely.
07:09I think the first point is that you have to anonymize relations
07:13with the UK.
07:13You can't, it can't depend on the personality
07:16of the Prime Minister,
07:17particularly where you have Farage
07:19quite high in the opinion polls.
07:21So I think the European Commission has to recognize this.
07:24Plus, it cannot continue to treat the UK
07:26as an ordinary third country,
07:28because the UK is so aligned
07:30with our key interests as Europe.
07:32And I think a lot of UK politicians recognize this.
07:35The Commission has to recognize that too.
07:37And during the very lengthy negotiation period,
07:39the divorce period, if you like,
07:41was the EU fair to the United Kingdom, you think?
07:44I think in many aspects we were very fair.
07:47If I look at fisheries,
07:48we really took a huge portion
07:53out of our fishery rights, etc.
07:55So I think the European Union has been right,
07:57but tough.
07:58I think maybe in some aspects too tough.
08:00So that's also my suggestion.
08:02Let's work together closer.
08:04Let's move past the past bickering
08:07and find new solutions,
08:09because I think that will also pave the way
08:11for new candidate member states
08:14like Iceland and Norway.
08:15And if we don't improve the relationship
08:17with the United Kingdom in the future,
08:20I think we have a referendum in Iceland upcoming
08:22and show signs of that development.
08:24we will eventually end up also losing these candidate member states
08:28who do fulfill the Copenhagen criteria.
08:32But I just want to bring in an incident that took place
08:34in the European Parliament Chamber just last week in Strasbourg.
08:37When MEPs, when you were voting on measures
08:39to increase the deportation of undocumented migrants.
08:42Take a look.
08:47On the agenda, the report by Mrs. Brickmont
08:52on the EU-Pakistan agreement,
08:54modification of concessions on tariff rate quotes.
08:59Vote on consent by roll call vote.
09:02The vote is open.
09:13We move to the...
09:18It's adopted.
09:21So a flavour there of what's going on
09:23inside the very European Parliament chamber.
09:25Sander Schmid, what were you chanting?
09:27I was not chanting.
09:28Not, I don't think chanting belongs in a parliament.
09:31That way I did applaud the outcome of the result of the vote.
09:35And were you sitting beside the chanters?
09:36Yes, yes, they were to the left of me,
09:38so in the right-wing groups.
09:43This is a good glimpse of the kind of divisiveness
09:47that we can see right now in politics,
09:49right here and, of course, across the pond.
09:50Yeah, look, it was a disgrace.
09:52It was an appalling low point in my experience
09:56in the European Parliament.
09:57I voted against the measure.
09:58I have a very clear conscience about that.
10:01And what I was very disappointed about
10:03was that some members of your party online
10:05described one of our colleagues,
10:08who is originally from Iraq,
10:10that she should go home.
10:11Now, that should be withdrawn.
10:13That is the subject of a complaint.
10:15And I would put it to you
10:15that you should recognise that that was a mistake.
10:19Whatever about not chanting in the parliament,
10:21but encouraging one of our colleagues,
10:23who wasn't born in the European Union,
10:25to go home, surely that's an unacceptable political approach.
10:29I wasn't there at the incident
10:31so that I can't vouch for how it was formulated
10:34by my colleague and how it was intended.
10:37So I think...
10:38But what we're seeing here...
10:39I think we look at the outcome of the result.
10:41Everyone who is an EU citizen,
10:44who holds the right to be here,
10:45can remain in the European Union.
10:46This is about the return of illegal migrants,
10:49illegal aliens,
10:50who have penetrated the European Union
10:52but without a right to asylum and to remain here,
10:56to return hubs under the full compliance
10:59with EU and international fundamental human rights.
11:02It's just interesting because Brexit, of course,
11:04was driven largely by migration concerns
11:06and we're seeing that right now in the EU.
11:07The bloc taking much tougher policies
11:10when it comes to migration.
11:11Has Europe moved closer to the position
11:13that won that Brexit referendum, Barry Andrews?
11:15Yeah, my view is you can't beat the far right
11:17by becoming far right.
11:18That way they win and you lose.
11:20So I think it is a major mistake here.
11:24I think, you know, Sanders says
11:26there is human rights conditionality
11:29in relation to these return hubs.
11:31But let's not forget,
11:32there are human rights clauses
11:33in the EU-Israel Association Agreement
11:36which have been willfully ignored
11:38by the Commission for three years
11:39in spite of the ongoing war crimes,
11:41in spite of the ongoing statements
11:43made by certain Israeli ministers
11:46in relation to European citizens,
11:49in relation to Palestinians and the West Bank.
11:50So I take no comfort from the presence
11:53in this agreement of human rights conditions
11:55in relation to return hubs.
11:56Quick reaction to that?
11:57I do.
11:58I think that we uphold the rule of law
12:00as European Union
12:01and we will also do this in the return hub
12:03in safe third countries.
12:06And I think a lot of the Irish voters
12:07will also be disappointed
12:09that you voted against the result,
12:10which is the last building block
12:12of the EU migration and asylum pact.
12:14Yeah, some Irish voters will be...
12:16Which you supported in the last term.
12:18Some Irish voters will be disappointed
12:20that I voted against it.
12:21That is correct.
12:22But that's the essence of populism,
12:24that you're determined by, you know,
12:26whatever current...
12:27Now, what I try to explain to our citizens
12:29is that, yes, we have a new migration
12:31and asylum pact.
12:32It only came into force two weeks ago.
12:34We also have migration conditionality
12:37in a lot of our external relations.
12:39We also have memorandums
12:40of understanding and returns.
12:41And my argument is that
12:42we should let all of this work
12:44before we go down
12:45what was a taboo subject
12:47just a few years ago
12:48about sending families and children
12:51to places they've never had any connection with
12:53to satisfy this demand
12:57in circumstances where asylum applications
12:59are going down in the European Union,
13:01where deportations are actually going up.
13:04This is the wrong time to do this.
13:05And we have done extensive reporting
13:06on that topic here on Euronews.
13:08And we've also done previous editions of The Ring,
13:10so catch up with them.
13:11But now it is time to move on to our next round.
13:18Now, you've already got a glimpse
13:19of what happens inside the European Parliament Chamber,
13:21but now I'm going to give you another one
13:23because there, MEPs also ask each other
13:25direct questions and follow-up.
13:27So here on The Ring,
13:28you'll also have that opportunity.
13:30So, Sander Schmitt, please address
13:31your very first question to Barry Andrews.
13:33Barry, the United Kingdom was our strongest ally
13:36for fiscal discipline,
13:37resisting EU debt schemes
13:39and protecting national sovereignty,
13:41also for Ireland.
13:42Do you still miss the British Prime Minister
13:44in the European Council
13:45to help us protect national vetoes?
13:48And would you actually welcome the EU
13:49back into the European Union?
13:52A couple of questions there, Sander.
13:54So, first of all, yes, of course,
13:57we'd welcome the UK back into the European Union.
13:59I think of all EU member states,
14:01Ireland was most aligned with the UK, actually,
14:03on a whole range of issues,
14:04particularly around trade,
14:06the provision of financial services,
14:07but most importantly,
14:09peace on the island of Ireland.
14:10And Ireland and the UK pulled very hard
14:13in the same direction on that,
14:14and the European Union acted as an honest broker
14:16and really helped us.
14:17So, for me,
14:18there's absolutely no question about that.
14:20In terms of veto power
14:21and the protection of veto power,
14:23I think that has held the European Union back,
14:25whereas other major global actors
14:27are able to act quickly.
14:28We take an inordinate amount of time
14:30and we're being held hostage
14:32by single individuals
14:34in the European Council.
14:35And now your question.
14:36So, my question is
14:38how the ECR
14:40are making arrangements
14:43with far-right MEPs
14:46in the European Parliament,
14:47some of whom are pro-Putin.
14:49How do you explain that
14:50to your voters in the Netherlands
14:52that you are making these alliances
14:54with pro-Russian parties
14:55and pro-Russian actors
14:57in the European Parliament?
14:58I think it's not about
14:59making alliances with pro-Russian parties.
15:02We have a broad centre-right majority now,
15:04new majorities in the European Parliament,
15:05which vote along with us
15:07as an ECR,
15:08where we firmly support Ukraine.
15:09So, there's no doubt about that.
15:11And if they vote along us
15:13in supporting, for instance,
15:16the return regulation
15:17proposed by EPP Commissioner
15:19and by the Commission of Miss von der Leyen,
15:21not by far-right populists,
15:23but by the European Commission
15:24we safeguarded,
15:25we defended the proposal
15:27of Commissioner Brunner there,
15:29then there's no case of us
15:31collaborating with any such parties.
15:33But I do not uphold
15:34a firewall or a cordon sanitaire
15:37if people want to support my proposals.
15:40That would be political suicide.
15:41And I'm sure that certain
15:43of your own proposals
15:44and amendments
15:45have been voted in favour of
15:46also by far-right parties
15:48in committing committee votes.
15:50There's a difference between
15:52passive support
15:53and actively collaborating
15:55with these parties
15:56on amendments
15:57and issues like that.
15:58So, is your point
15:59is that you don't actively collaborate
16:01with the far-right,
16:01the pro...
16:03We've worked with all
16:04democratically elected representatives
16:06in this House,
16:07and if they want to support us
16:09on issues such as
16:10return regulation,
16:11combating illegal migration,
16:13then I fully support
16:15such cooperation.
16:16And there's no threat there
16:18or danger
16:19of legitimising
16:20their positions
16:21in certain other issues.
16:23There we have
16:23a very strong stance
16:24and there we are also
16:25really aligned,
16:26I think,
16:27in many issues.
16:28Okay.
16:28Well, we've heard the views now
16:29from the MEPs
16:30and you've had the opportunity
16:31to address your questions.
16:32Now it's time to hear
16:33from a new voice.
16:38I'd like to bring in
16:39the voice of
16:39Richard Corbett,
16:41former British Labour MEP
16:43who became one of the
16:44leading political
16:44and academic voices
16:45in the debates
16:46over EU membership
16:47and reforming the bloc.
16:49He was actually in Brussels
16:50this month
16:50to mark the 10-year anniversary
16:52of Brexit
16:53and meet a group
16:54of British nationals
16:54who walked the whole way
16:56from London
16:56to the European capital.
16:58Take a look.
16:59Alexander Stodd,
17:00President of Finland,
17:01came all the way to London.
17:02Chatham House lecture
17:03to say we want you
17:04back.
17:05Donald Tusk,
17:06Poland,
17:06says we dream
17:07of Britain coming back.
17:08Pedro Sanchez,
17:09Spain,
17:10says Brexit was a mistake.
17:11You should come back in.
17:12They do want us back.
17:14Why?
17:15Look at the geopolitics.
17:17Look at the geopolitics.
17:19Richard Corbett
17:19making the point there,
17:20making the pitch
17:21for coming back
17:21into the EU.
17:22Now that was one
17:23of your questions
17:23actually for Barry Andrews
17:24earlier.
17:25Would you like
17:26to welcome them back
17:26and is it necessary now
17:27due to the geopolitical
17:28world we're living in?
17:29I think I would
17:30really welcome them back
17:32because we really
17:32miss them still
17:33also in the European Parliament.
17:34the British Conservative Party
17:37is still sorely missed
17:38I think in my group
17:39as well.
17:39but I think it will be
17:41an evolution
17:42in the coming years
17:43with other parties
17:44as Barry said
17:45in the UK
17:46now contending
17:47and they think
17:48we have to work
17:49towards rebuilding trust
17:50and confidence
17:51also by having
17:52a more pragmatic approach
17:53not a dogmatic
17:54not a bickering
17:56approach of the past
17:57not to be too tough
17:58but really open up
17:59to the United Kingdom.
18:01a much more dangerous place
18:02since 10 years ago
18:03now we do know
18:04the EU
18:04and the UK
18:05have signed
18:06a defence and security
18:07partnership
18:07back in May 2025
18:08but is this working out?
18:10Look there's just
18:11not enough political energy
18:12behind this
18:14obviously Keir Starmer
18:15has had his problems
18:16and the commission
18:18has had
18:19a very full agenda
18:20so the European Union
18:21UK agenda
18:22has been very strongly
18:23pushed by
18:24Mara Sefcovic
18:25let's be
18:25absolutely clear
18:26about this
18:27but I am concerned
18:29about the slow progress
18:30on things like
18:31the ETS
18:32electricity trading
18:34SPS
18:35you know
18:35food
18:35and those relationships
18:37which we should be able
18:38to improve
18:39much more quickly
18:40than is the case.
18:40And with the world
18:41in turmoil
18:41and the EU
18:42hoping to invest
18:43more in defence
18:44and security
18:44especially with the US
18:46pulling out of NATO
18:47there's a big gap
18:48in the budget
18:49now since Brexit
18:49we've seen like
18:50between 10 and 12 billion
18:51euros less
18:52in the coffers
18:53because the UK left
18:54what does that mean
18:56now for the EU's
18:57ambitions to invest
18:57in defence?
18:58I think the UK
19:00are major military power
19:02also capable
19:03of investing
19:03and we really
19:05miss them there
19:06so as I said
19:07we sorely miss them
19:08also in this dimension.
19:11And is there a solution
19:11for the EU
19:12to muster up
19:13the money itself
19:14try and leverage
19:14the EU budget?
19:15That will mean
19:16that net payers
19:17such as my own country
19:18have to pay more
19:19and I'm not really
19:20in favour of
19:21having the defence
19:22which is primarily
19:23a national competence
19:25transferred to the EU
19:26level
19:27because really
19:28that development
19:29in the past
19:30also led to Brexit
19:31and also in my own
19:32member states
19:33if the net contribution
19:34of my own member state
19:35were to increase
19:37I think that would
19:38decrease also support
19:39for the European Union
19:40which has increased
19:41in the recent years
19:42so I think we should
19:43leave it there
19:44and find pragmatic
19:45solutions there.
19:46Okay I want to dive
19:47deeper into that topic
19:48but first
19:48let's take a break
19:49here on The Ring
19:50stay with us though
19:51here on Euro News
20:01Welcome back
20:02to The Ring
20:02Euro News'
20:03weekly debate show
20:04I'm Maeve McMahan
20:05and I'm joined
20:06by Sander Schmitt
20:07Dutch MEP
20:07from the European
20:08Conservatives
20:09and Reformists
20:10and Barry Andrews
20:11Irish MEP
20:11from Renew Europe
20:13and today we're
20:14talking about
20:14how the EU
20:15is doing
20:1610 years
20:16after the Brexit
20:17referendum
20:18and if the country
20:19of 69 million people
20:21could ever rejoin again
20:22to get the view
20:23from Europeans
20:24on whether
20:25they should one day
20:26rejoin
20:26we consulted some data
20:27from the European Council
20:28on Foreign Relations
20:30that says
20:3066% of European respondents
20:33quote
20:34strongly support
20:35or tend to support
20:36UK membership
20:37support
20:38varies significantly
20:39from us
20:4056% in Bulgaria
20:41and 59% in France
20:43and Italy
20:44to 75%
20:45in the Netherlands
20:46and Denmark
20:47and backers
20:48of far right
20:48and Eurosceptic parties
20:49favour stronger
20:50UK-EU ties
20:52including supporters
20:53of Germany's AFD
20:54and France's
20:55national rally
20:57so interesting
20:57data there
20:58and many sharing
20:59your view
21:00that they do
21:00indeed miss
21:01the Brits
21:01and they'd love
21:02to invite them back
21:03your reaction
21:03yeah well actually
21:04the figures are very similar
21:05to the polling figures
21:06in the UK
21:07so whereas
21:08it was 52%
21:10to leave
21:10now the figures
21:11are the other way
21:12there's most
21:13UK people
21:14consider that Brexit
21:16was a mistake
21:16they consider that
21:17rejoining is the correct way
21:19so really
21:20there's hugely fertile
21:21political ground
21:22available to whichever
21:23politician
21:24has the courage
21:25to articulate
21:26return to the European Union
21:27and to put that
21:28to the people
21:28and I think that the European Union
21:30should respond to that
21:32and provide a pathway
21:32to such a politician
21:33if they do have that courage
21:35and how should that path
21:36look
21:36are we talking about
21:36the red carpet
21:37being rolled out
21:38or are we talking about
21:39stricter membership
21:40no more opt-outs
21:42I think we need opt-outs
21:43as well
21:43because we'll never
21:45get them back
21:45if we're too dogmatic
21:47too strict there
21:48so I think we ought
21:50to offer them
21:52the old package
21:53I think
21:54that would be
21:55then that's also
21:56what British voters
21:58and British citizens
21:59who were pulled
21:59remember
22:00so if we come up
22:01with other
22:02extra regulations
22:03we need more pragmatism
22:04that's a very interesting
22:05view
22:06do you think
22:06other Europeans
22:07and European leaders
22:08would be on board
22:09with this
22:09no they wouldn't
22:10because clearly
22:11we do have
22:12differentiated accession
22:14so Ukraine
22:15may come in
22:16in the next
22:16few years
22:17but I anticipate
22:18that it will be
22:19on different terms
22:20to Western Balkans
22:22for example
22:22and I think
22:23the UK
22:23as a former member
22:25should be treated
22:26in a differentiated manner
22:27but I don't see
22:28the European Council
22:29supporting the idea
22:30of going back
22:30to the original package
22:32of rebate
22:33outside Schengen
22:34outside the euro
22:36I think some of those issues
22:37will have to be
22:38spoken about
22:39so while the UK
22:41are saying
22:41they want to return
22:42to the European Union
22:44the majority
22:44when you put
22:45the actual package
22:46it might be
22:47a different story
22:47so that debate
22:48has to happen
22:49in the UK
22:49initially
22:50before we have
22:51any discussions
22:52at Europe
22:52and 10 years on
22:53from now
22:53how do you visualise
22:54the European Union
22:55will it be enlarged
22:56it will
22:57in my ideal vision
22:59will be
23:00slightly
23:01maybe enlarged
23:02but enlargement
23:02is not a goal
23:03in itself
23:04I'd like to have
23:05the United Kingdom
23:06back
23:06and I think
23:06Norway and Iceland
23:07are perfect examples
23:09within the European
23:09economic area
23:11already
23:11to join the European Union
23:13but if European leaders
23:14are too tough
23:15and we don't
23:15have this pragmatism
23:17towards the United Kingdom
23:18now
23:18in the upcoming months
23:19this might
23:20also slow down
23:22or close off
23:23the same development
23:24in Iceland
23:25and Norway
23:25and I think
23:26it will closely
23:27follow it
23:28yeah I agree
23:28I think if we have
23:29a positive discussion
23:31about the UK
23:31I think the reputation
23:33of the European Union
23:34would be very
23:35very profoundly
23:35enhanced
23:36by seeing the UK
23:37recognise that
23:38it was a mistake
23:39to leave
23:39and to begin
23:40the process
23:41of applying
23:42to rejoin
23:42and just a final point
23:43on EU enlargement
23:44could the EU function
23:45as 30 or 35
23:47with this current veto system
23:48well look
23:49back in 2004
23:50when we had
23:51the biggest accession
23:53when all of the countries
23:54of central and eastern Europe
23:55joined
23:56the argument was
23:57the European Union
23:58is not going to be able
23:59to function
23:59without really expanding
24:01QMV
24:02and withdrawing veto power
24:04in fact
24:04Ireland
24:05and other smaller member states
24:06insisted on keeping
24:07veto power
24:08and making sure
24:09that we limited QMV
24:10and
24:11the roof
24:12hasn't fallen in
24:13in fact
24:13the European Union
24:14does continue
24:15to operate
24:15quite well
24:16having said that
24:17from a foreign policy
24:18point of view
24:19I believe
24:19that there are areas
24:20where there should be
24:21an expanded QMV
24:23is that pragmatic
24:23no as Barry said
24:25I think the European Union
24:26should continue
24:27as it is
24:28as the treaty is now
24:29with the vetoes
24:30the number of vetoes
24:32and policies
24:33has already
24:34been limited
24:34in the past
24:35before the treaty
24:36of Lisbon as well
24:36and I think
24:37we now
24:38have to
24:38safeguard
24:39this unanimity principle
24:41especially
24:42if we want
24:42the UK back
24:43if we want
24:44Iceland
24:44and smaller member states
24:45like Norway
24:47potential member states
24:48to join
24:49and it will really
24:50scare off
24:50these potential
24:52or real candidates
24:54if we abolish
24:55the national veto
24:56and for my own
24:57member states
24:57it's also been
24:58very important
24:59not only for Ireland
25:00but for other
25:00smaller member states
25:01to uphold the veto
25:03Okay
25:03well it is now
25:04time to move on
25:05to our fifth
25:05and final round
25:11And like always
25:12let's close
25:12we do something
25:13a little bit different
25:14I'm going to ask
25:15our MEPs
25:16a set of questions
25:16and you can only answer
25:18with yes or no
25:19is that doable?
25:21Maybe
25:22Is the European Union
25:24to blame for the Brexit vote
25:25yes or no?
25:26Yes
25:26no
25:27Is Nigel Farage
25:29perhaps to blame
25:29for the Brexit vote
25:30yes or no?
25:31Yes
25:31yes and yes
25:34Is Nigel Farage
25:35to blame for the Brexit vote
25:36yes or no?
25:36Yes yes
25:37Was Brexit a wake-up call
25:39for the European Union
25:39Shander?
25:40Yes
25:41Yes I think that's fair
25:42I think
25:43yeah
25:43I think it has forced
25:44the European Union
25:45to reflect in a way
25:46that it hasn't done
25:46for a long time
25:47And is the European Union
25:49more democratic
25:50now today
25:51than it was
25:51ten years ago
25:52yes or no?
25:53There has been
25:54no treaty change
25:54so no
25:55it hasn't changed
25:56no
25:57Did disinformation
25:58decide the referendum
25:59in the UK
26:00yes or no?
26:02Yes
26:03Cambridge Analytica
26:04Russian money
26:05massive disinformation
26:06And will the European Union
26:08ever speak with one voice?
26:09Yes
26:12Yes
26:14And is Ursula von der Leyen
26:16a good leader
26:17yes or no?
26:18No I don't think so
26:19Yes or no?
26:21Sometimes she's good
26:22on Israel
26:23she's been a disaster
26:24Is the EU doing enough
26:26to stay competitive
26:27against the US and China
26:28Shander?
26:29No
26:29absolutely not
26:30we need more deregulation
26:31No
26:32And has the European Union
26:33become too dependent
26:34on regulation?
26:36Yes or no?
26:37Yes
26:38Yes
26:39That is the big debate
26:40of course
26:41of Brussels today
26:42Should national vetoes
26:43in foreign policy
26:44be abolished?
26:44I know your answer
26:46No
26:47No
26:47In some instances
26:49yes
26:49Good to have allies
26:50in renew as well
26:51Has the EU Green Deal
26:53strengthened the European economy?
26:55Yes
26:55I don't think so
26:57not overall
26:58And will we see
27:00another Brexit
27:00in the next ten years?
27:01No way
27:02No
27:03And one final question
27:04Is the future
27:05of the European Union
27:06bright?
27:07Yes or no?
27:07Yes
27:11Come on Sander
27:12you know the right answer
27:14Yes
27:14if we uphold
27:15the national veto
27:16and respect
27:17this national sovereignty
27:18as well
27:19And on that conclusion
27:19we can bring this edition
27:20of The Ring to an end
27:22We'd love to hear as well
27:23from you
27:23The Ring
27:24at youruse.com
27:25That is our email address
27:26Barry Andrews and Sander Schmidt
27:28Thank you so much
27:28for being our guests
27:29Thank you so much for watching
27:30Take care
27:31and see you soon
27:32That is our guest
27:33The Ring
27:33and see you soon
27:33as well
27:35We'll see you soon
27:36We'll see you soon
27:39There's our guest
27:40We'll see you soon
27:41We'll see you soon
27:43We'll see you soon
27:43We'll see you soon
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