- 2 minutes ago
«Вне поля зрения?» Евродепутаты спорят о центрах возврата мигрантов в The Ring
В новом выпуске программы The Ring из Европарламента в Брюсселе депутаты Лена Дюпон (ЕНП) и Хуан Фернандо Лопес Агилар (С&D) обсуждают, ускорят ли центры размещения высылку нелегальных мигрантов.
ЧИТАТЬ ДАЛЕЕ : http://ru.euronews.com/2026/04/09/vne-polya-zreniya-evrodeputaty-sporyat-o-centrah-vozvrata-migrantov-v-the-ring
Подписывайтесь: Euronews можно смотреть на Dailymotion на 12 языках
В новом выпуске программы The Ring из Европарламента в Брюсселе депутаты Лена Дюпон (ЕНП) и Хуан Фернандо Лопес Агилар (С&D) обсуждают, ускорят ли центры размещения высылку нелегальных мигрантов.
ЧИТАТЬ ДАЛЕЕ : http://ru.euronews.com/2026/04/09/vne-polya-zreniya-evrodeputaty-sporyat-o-centrah-vozvrata-migrantov-v-the-ring
Подписывайтесь: Euronews можно смотреть на Dailymotion на 12 языках
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:11Субтитры делал DimaTorzok
00:30Редактор субтитров А.Семкин
01:04Корректор А.Кулакова
01:46Редактор субтитров А.Кулакова
01:53Редактор субтитров А.Кулакова
02:15Редактор субтитров Н.
02:18Редактор субтитров А.Семкин
03:03Редактор субтитров А.Семкин
03:26Корректор А.Семкин
03:31Но, на другой стороне, мы видели силы, как Канцел Европы,
03:35что эти хубы могут создать «блоку-блоку-блоку».
03:39Что вы видите здесь?
03:40Конечно, мы сомневаемся.
03:42Редакторные хубы не имеют ответственность,
03:45особенно когда они находятся на границах Европы.
03:49Редакторные хубы не имеют гарантии в отношении фундаментальных правительств.
03:52Они не консистенны с EUA.
03:53Они не консистенны с архитектурой,
03:56когда мы адаптимировали Демократный Ассайлум Пакет.
03:58И, конечно, они дадут возможность для государства,
04:02для экономической компенсации,
04:04для каких-либо руководителей,
04:06наиболее того, чтобы держать миграторы из нашей страны.
04:10И это не идея.
04:11Лена Демократ, как вы адресите эти консерты?
04:14Ну, первое, ваши консерты не были просто неглотированы или игнорированы.
04:18Они были частью этой дискуссии.
04:20Вы и ваш группы были также.
04:22Но вы решили уйти.
04:24Вы также не поддержали компромиссы,
04:26например, от Либерал-раппорта.
04:30И это не только о ретерн-соцке.
04:32Но, в парламенте, мы имеем в парламенте
04:37на артике о фундаментальных правительствах,
04:38которые являются основными основными
04:40для этого концепта.
04:42Мы говорим о секретаре.
04:44Мы говорим о реализации.
04:46Мы говорим о реализации с мембер-статами,
04:47вместе с тем, что у Европейской Федерации,
04:50чтобы понять, что, через что,
04:52больше всего всего всего всего всего одной из 5
04:53ретерн-соцкновений
04:54вернули.
04:55Но как вы можете сделать это?
04:56But on the return hubs, on the return hubs as such, it's always based on agreements and arrangements which are
05:03bilateral or trilateral, multilateral.
05:05But do you trust, do you really deep down trust these arrangements?
05:08Will it not be more kind of out of sight, out of mind?
05:10Well, if you look at the debate as such on return hubs, for example, when you're also debating with international
05:16organizations,
05:16they're also not saying it's not feasible.
05:19They're saying under certain conditions it is workable.
05:22And it stems from the fact that we know that most of the people actually do want to return to
05:27their region, to their country, if it's possible.
05:30But if it's not possible, and there are other opportunities in the vicinity of their home region,
05:34it should be feasible actually to also return people to there.
05:38But you fear people could be left in legal limbo.
05:40Of course. Let's make it clear.
05:43We socialists, we try to be part of the equation.
05:46But we're left aside, and the EPP preferred to join a majority with the far-right groups of the European
05:54Parliament,
05:55which are three far-right groups, and they were the ones to adopt this instrument.
05:59Of course, we understand that member states are concerned about returns.
06:05But return hubs, absolutely not, because they are externalizing the management of the whole issue.
06:11Besides, there are no guarantees to protect fundamental rights when they're outside the European Union,
06:17because those third states are not bound by EU law, are not bound by fundamental rights considerations.
06:23Besides, they're extending the time frame.
06:26There were 18 months, but now they are up to two years out of the landscape of the European mandate
06:32of fundamental rights protection.
06:32You're nodding your head in disagreement here, but Juan Fernando López has a point.
06:36In the past, you worked a lot, very closely with the socialists in this very European Parliament,
06:41but now you're working much closer with the far-right.
06:44Well, let me do, probably get two things straight here.
06:47A, this question about the detention is not connected to return hubs.
06:51It's a different part of the legislation that we were discussing upon.
06:55And for security cases, I do think that there are credible reasons and credible examples in all member states
07:01why a prolonged detention sometimes can be not only necessary, but needed.
07:06Second thing is, we have been proposing, and you speak about the concerns of the member states,
07:12the mandate we put forward for a vote is based on the council's position,
07:17on the commission proposal where we thought that we needed to protect specifically the European angle of that proposal,
07:23and it's based on papers that the EPP had produced for a very long time, so known positions of ours.
07:30If we are not allowed to put that forward to a vote because someone else might jump on it,
07:36then actually we do have a bit of a difficult political discussion.
07:39And I very much respect the position of the SND here.
07:42I know that it also has been a tough negotiations for them, but they were the ones deciding to leave
07:47the table.
07:47It was not us.
07:48We did our best, as we did, to be part of the majority, to adopt the Migration and Asylum Pact.
07:55But the thing is that...
07:56So what was your counterproposal?
07:57Ever since this mandate started, there's been a new majority, the EPP leaning with three far-right political groups,
08:03and they have been the ones to somehow legalize the so-called Meloni practice with Albania.
08:10But it's not only Albania, it can be whatever, third country, maybe in Africa.
08:15Why should a third-country ruler accept that kind of a deal from a member state?
08:20Only because of economic compensation?
08:22Is that enough to protect the fundamental rights involved, to protect the minors,
08:26to protect the accompanied minors' fundamental rights involved?
08:30Are there any legal considerations which are actually consistent with the architecture that we finally adopted?
08:36No, the answer is not.
08:37Are there?
08:37We didn't have best to meet their concerns, but they did not.
08:41All the models are based on a contractual, on a treaty basis.
08:46And that, of course, allows the European Union, the member states, on their bilateral or multilateral level,
08:52to really follow up.
08:54We have the attention and actually also, if needed, and I think that this is something that should be taken
08:59into consideration,
09:00also the support by the international organizations.
09:03So there will be a lot of emphasis.
09:05And describe a return hub to our viewers.
09:06How would it look like?
09:07Well, it depends on how the member states actually design it now, together with the Commission,
09:11as part of the, let's say, integral approach also to our third-country cooperation.
09:16And, again, we are investing quite heavily in third countries, not only when it comes to border management and asylum
09:21capacities, but, for example, when it comes to economic prosperity, when it comes to fundamental rights, and so on and
09:27so forth.
09:27Does that not reassure you that the Commission and the member states together will design how these hubs should look?
09:31Not enough.
09:33Of course, we are aware that as to the so-called non-eligible people to stay, they are human beings.
09:40And they made it irregularly, never illegally.
09:45We object to that kind of a lexicology, because they were not given the chance to make it regular.
09:50There have been no legal pathways, and that's been the very one demand of the S&D group right from
09:55the outset.
09:56Legal pathways should be open.
09:58Humanitarian corridors, humanitarian visas, legal pathways so that they don't have to risk their lives to make it irregularly to
10:05the European Union.
10:05Once they are here, of course, you have to tell the difference between those who are entitled to some kind
10:13of human rights consideration, particularly common minors and women with minors and families in special conditions, so that they are
10:23given the proper treatment.
10:25But as to putting them out of our sight and making a deal with some third country ruler so that
10:32they can be somehow piled up for indefinite period of time in some return hubs with no fundamental rights and
10:41with no binding legal considerations as to EU law.
10:45That's absolutely against the mandate of the European Union to respect international law, which includes humanitarian law, which includes human
10:53rights, as a first condition of EU external action and foreign policy.
10:59And the European Union, of course, fancies itself as a cheerleader of fundamental rights.
11:03Let me stop you there, as we are just getting warmed up here.
11:10Now it is time for our viewers to get a real flavour of the European Parliament's chamber, where MEPs ask
11:15questions directly to each other, and sometimes it gets heated.
11:18So I would like to start with ladies first.
11:20Lena Dupont, you can address your very first question to Juan López Aguilar.
11:24Yes, for example, how do you actually get that together, that if Spain is going on such a huge regularisation
11:30programme, that it will have repercussions for the rest of the European Union?
11:35And then at the same time, say, we're looking for European solutions here.
11:38First of all, what Spain has done is not unprecedented.
11:41Many member states have resorted to regularisation.
11:43And have been criticised for that.
11:44And governments of different political colours have also resorted to regularisation.
11:47And have been criticised for that.
11:49And it's a positive approach.
11:50Rightly so.
11:50Everyone is agreeing on that Spain is now the locomotive, the number one locomotive when it comes to economic growth
12:00and job creation, precisely because it has an alternative, positive view to migration, as opposed to the negative approach, which
12:10is the predominant, which is the prevailing site to migration and contaminates not only migrants, but also asylum seekers.
12:17So the thing is that when you have a positive approach to migration, when you give the chance to those
12:22who are already staying on Spanish soil and Spanish territory, and you give the chance to regularise, you're enhancing not
12:30only their human rights, but also the economy and job creation in Spain.
12:36Are you satisfied with that answer, or would you like a follow-up?
12:39Well, it just basically creates another pull factor into the European Union.
12:43Quick reaction?
12:43And the Saxon thing is...
12:44Does that not create a pull factor?
12:45For me, it's more or less a sign of an overstretched capacity if you need to regularise things, because you're
12:50not able to conclude procedures as such.
12:52I've been involved in migration debates for so long, and of course I understand it's a divisive issue.
12:57But having said this, there is nothing in the right and conservative rhetoric that does not lead to pull factor.
13:06Everything is pull factor to the negative approach to migration.
13:10When you treat them as human beings, that's pull factor.
13:14When you regularise them, that's pull factor.
13:17When you incorporate them into the job market, that's pull factor.
13:20Or, apparently, the only answer would be expelling them out or having them out of our sight, whatever the cost,
13:26whatever it takes.
13:27And, of course, that leads to an utter contradiction with the values and the EU law which you should be
13:34standing for.
13:35Juan Fernando López, your opportunity now to address the question to Lena Dupont.
13:39Lena, I've known you for years.
13:41Are you happy that actually this return regulation was adopted by the EPP with the far right?
13:48I can picture the far right standing up in a standing ovation to themselves, happy of what they did.
13:55Are you happy with that legalisation of the Meloni practices, of externalising the migration management,
14:03of giving the third countries the chance to pile migrants and asylum seekers altogether in indefinite time,
14:11only for the sake of reassuring the member states that we will be somehow countering back the numbers of migrants
14:19which keep knocking on our doors?
14:21Are you happy?
14:23Well, of course, as you can say, it was a difficult decision.
14:27When we see that only one in five returnees, only 20% of those who do not have a right
14:32to stay within the European Union,
14:34are still staying in the European Union.
14:36And it was always an integral part to the pact, because on the one side of the medal,
14:40you have the protection of those who are in need and granted protection.
14:45In the midst of the medal, you have the solidarity of the European Union,
14:49taking care of responsibility and solidarity together.
14:51And on the other side of that coin, you have the return policies,
14:55because the ones who do not have a right to stay within the European Union,
14:58and this is not against a positive approach to migration or a treatment as non-humanitarian.
15:05It's just the simple following our own rules, which has always been part of the pact, basically.
15:10And you know that, because when we started negotiation on the pact, there were 12 regulations in there.
15:15And just because I'm aware you haven't answered the question, so I think you want to ask a follow-up.
15:18Let me make one point clear.
15:20Yes, the rate of returnees is low, but it's because of the lack of an architecture,
15:26a diplomatic architecture of agreements being negotiated with third countries by the European Union in all,
15:32which has got a single legal personality.
15:35And, of course, those returns should be dignified,
15:38consistent with the fundamental rights and human rights involved, and preferably voluntary.
15:43Okay, we've heard from our MEPs.
15:45Now it's time to bring in a new argument to this discussion.
15:51I would like to bring in the voice of Yves Getty, director of Amnesty International's EU office.
15:56She said that this vote marks a growing trend towards increasingly harmful, exclusionary,
16:02and draconian policies on migration, with worrying repercussions for due process and evidence-based policymaking.
16:09Far from reducing irregularity, these proposals risk trapping more people in precarious situations.
16:14Lena Dupont, that is the concerns that NGOs are having.
16:18Well, again, we are speaking about a process that has been followed through from the asylum application
16:24onwards to the rejection of the asylum claim and forward to the return procedure.
16:30So it's not like we are just basically rejecting people on unfounded base.
16:36But again, it's in the pact itself.
16:38It is said that a fact of protection needs to be there.
16:42And this is not only a moral obligation, but it's also a treaty obligation, a law obligation
16:48for every member state of the European Union.
16:50And this is the principle of everything that can be done under the arrangements or agreements.
16:55And we've heard from Charlie Weimers, that's the Swedish negotiator from the right-wing party,
16:59the European conservatives and reformers hailing this as the new consensus in Europe,
17:04chanting the new era of deportations has begun.
17:07This is why NGOs are so concerned, Juan Fernando.
17:09I reject that kind of a rhetoric, for sure.
17:13And I agree with the concerns that have been expressed by NGOs as to the flaws of this new policy
17:20and legislation that the European Union is putting in place with the cooperation of the right with the far right.
17:25It is the contrary.
17:25The thing is that for member states to have agreements with third countries,
17:33it deters the very possibility of the European Union deploying a diplomacy in itself.
17:38And it should be the European Union negotiating with countries of transit and origin
17:43so that that cooperation with countries of transit and origin would have as a result,
17:50first, giving opportunities for people to stay where they are born instead of doing whatever,
17:56even resorting to human trafficking and international criminal organizations to make it to the European Union.
18:02But once they are in the European Union, I insist, they are human beings
18:07and they are subject to the Charter of Fundamental Rights,
18:10which protects not only European citizens, but all human beings under EU law.
18:15And they have been applied EU law, they have been implemented EU law in the worst scenario,
18:21in the worst possibility you might think of,
18:24which is precisely that member states are now legalizing those practices with third countries
18:31with no legally binding agreements whatever.
18:36No legally binding agreements.
18:38Just some kind of a deal suffices to keep human beings out of the European Union
18:43without human rights consideration.
18:45Just let me, also from my understanding, because I fully agree with you on the point of the diplomacy,
18:52actually, and I fully agree also with you on the redemption of that language,
18:57because we're speaking about human beings.
18:59Whatever we did with the Asylum and Migration Pact, again, returns being integral part of it,
19:04we're speaking about human beings.
19:06So this is the first thing.
19:07Second thing, I agree with you on the migration diplomacy.
19:09But if now member states, together with the European Commission,
19:12or bilaterally, trilaterally, are actually implementing those treaties and corporations
19:18that you called for with the migration diplomacy,
19:21then how can it be bad?
19:22Because it is based on treaties and agreements and arrangements that are not only enforceable,
19:28but also are able to follow up.
19:30If we want to create more possibilities for people to stay in an area where they have a perspective,
19:36where they're close to their region, where they have safe and stable conditions,
19:41before making the route to the European Union, why shouldn't we do that?
19:45We've heard from our MEPs.
19:47Now it is time to take a short break here on The Ring,
19:49but we'll be back very soon with some more political punch.
20:00Welcome back to The Ring,
20:02Eurie News' weekly debate show broadcasting here from the Parliament in Brussels.
20:06I'm joined by the MEPs Juan Fernando López Aguiar and Lena Dupont.
20:10This week we're focusing on the topic of migration and the point of return hubs.
20:15And we wanted to share this data with you.
20:18480,000 people were ordered to leave the European Union each year,
20:22but only 20% or 25% are actually returned.
20:26And according to Eurostat, in 2024, it was Germany, Spain, Italy and France
20:31that received 70 to 75% of all EU asylum claims.
20:36And this comes as 1 million asylum cases are pending across the European Union.
20:41So why, Juan Fernando, do you think this is happening?
20:45What is causing these delays?
20:46Because you need arrangements, agreements,
20:50legally binding agreements with countries of origin, not with any country.
20:54Because if we didn't have these figures, you wouldn't need the return hubs.
20:56This return regulation lacks every meaningful link with a country of origin.
21:02It doesn't matter where do you belong,
21:05as long as there's someone willing to keep you out of our sight.
21:09Meaning that maybe some sub-Saharan Africa coming actually from, let's say, Mali or let's say Ghana can be returned
21:20to whatever country,
21:22to Libya, to Morocco, to Tunisia, as long as the ruler is willing to have them.
21:29Is that fair? Of course not.
21:32What we need is a legal architecture with countries of origin,
21:37so that you make certain that you're actually returning someone to the country where that particular someone actually came from.
21:46But you, on the other hand, believe that the return hubs will increase efficiency and that by, in a couple
21:51of years, those figures will be very different.
21:53Well, first of all, again, return hubs is not the only thing that is in the return regulation as such.
21:58We are also speaking about member states streamlining their procedures, helping each other out with resources, taking European...
22:04Do you trust member states will do that?
22:06I mean...
22:07Well, member states are the ones asking for that.
22:09So, I assume they will also then follow up on your own proposals and policies...
22:12Because implementation is always the big challenge here, right?
22:15One thing is promising something?
22:16Of course it is.
22:17Implementation is the devil in the detail.
22:19And we will also make sure politically that we will follow up from the European perspective on member states,
22:24fulfilling their not only implementation, but really also then driving up what they have been asking for.
22:29But again, I mean, Juan, your idea, and to a certain extent I do subscribe to that,
22:34but that would have already worked in the current cases because there is the international obligation to take back your
22:40own national citizens.
22:41And this is what third countries are not doing in some cases.
22:45So, we need a leverage.
22:46Of course it is to the best use if we do it together at European level.
22:49But we also know that member states have to do some links to third countries where they have a good
22:55cooperation already.
22:56And the last point actually on that, it's about, and this is the part of the agreement or the arrangement
23:01then,
23:01to really put forward perspectives for the people there.
23:04So, this is an integral part of the policy as such.
23:07Let me tell you something.
23:08I chaired the Committee of Liberal Justice and Home Affairs for 10 years,
23:12and I represented the European Parliament, the Council of Ministers of Interior.
23:15I heard them saying, live, fly them to Rwanda.
23:19And my question was, why Rwanda?
23:22Because only do you think they are black, they are indistinctly in Rwanda and whatever African country,
23:27no matter where they belong to?
23:28The thing is that we need actually to change our look, act more positively,
23:34and of course exert European diplomacy to come to terms with countries of origin
23:40and, needless to say, transit too, so that agreements are binding in the legal way
23:48and consistent with EU law.
23:51Not any agreement would suffice.
23:54And this language, Lena Dupont, that we're hearing inside ministries' meetings
23:57and used by politicians is having an impact on society.
23:59We've seen an increase in racist attacks and xenophobic attacks in countries like Germany.
24:03Well, this was mainly because for far too long, actually, both at European level
24:08and also at a certain extent at national level,
24:10we tend to not address the concerns of the citizens.
24:14And there is an overstretch in capacities in almost all member states.
24:19Which is why it is so important that we have a distinction between asylum and migration,
24:24because the people you're addressing are completely different.
24:28The capacities, the structures you need are completely different.
24:31And I think that this is one of the starting points.
24:33But what people experienced in the past is that people felt the need that actually we had lost control.
24:39What we have been proposing here, both in the pact and with the mandate of the parliament on returns,
24:44is that we put forward a structured and ordered, a humane way of organising asylum and migration.
24:51And it is now time for the fifth and the final round.
24:58So now it's time for something a little bit different.
25:00I'm going to be asking our MEPs just one question, and you can only answer yes or no.
25:06OK, let's begin.
25:09Are current EU returns too slow?
25:11Yes or no?
25:12Yes.
25:13Yes or no?
25:14Yes.
25:15You both agree on that one.
25:16Should EU countries set up return hubs abroad?
25:19Yes or no?
25:20Yes.
25:21No.
25:21Yes or no?
25:21No.
25:22Very clear no.
25:22Is irregular migration a threat today to the European Union?
25:26Léna Dupont, yes or no?
25:28Not as such.
25:29Yes or no?
25:30No, definitely not.
25:32It's a fact.
25:33And asylum is a right.
25:34But it needs to be in an ordered and structured way.
25:38Should rejected asylum seekers be returned to safe third countries?
25:41Yes or no?
25:41Yes.
25:43No.
25:44Should minors be exempt from return hubs, yes or no?
25:48Yes.
25:48OK.
25:49According to the mandate.
25:51Should the European Union prioritize efficiency over individual claims, yes or no?
25:55Yes.
25:56No.
25:57Should Frontex have greater powers, yes or no?
26:01In the returns process as such, yes.
26:04It should have a mandate to cooperate better with third countries.
26:08Is the EU's migration commissioner doing a good job?
26:12Magnus Brunner, yes or no?
26:13Yes.
26:16Well, well, well, well.
26:18I mean, it's not personal.
26:20But I can only be sorry to see that his proposals have been endorsed with standing ovation by the far
26:27right.
26:28Could the war in the Middle East trigger a new migration wave here in the European Union, yes or no?
26:33We are monitoring very actively the situation in the region and we are prepared.
26:39Yes.
26:40Yes.
26:40And we shouldn't panic.
26:42We can handle it.
26:43Well, that was my next question.
26:44Is the European Union prepared for this scenario, yes or no?
26:47Not in the current circumstances.
26:49Not in the current so-called relation of forces.
26:52But according to EU capacity, for sure it should.
26:56So we shouldn't panic.
26:58We can handle it as long as we do it according to EU values and EU law.
27:01So what is of utmost importance is that we closely cooperate with our countries, our partner countries that we have
27:08in the region.
27:09Final question.
27:10Did you agree with anything you heard from Lena Dupont, yes or no?
27:14Yes.
27:15And did you agree with anything you heard from Juan Fernando López Aguilar, yes or no?
27:18Not with everything, but with anything, yes.
27:20Yeah.
27:20Well, we give a glimpse there of how you actually can meet compromises here in the European Parliament.
27:25Lena Dupont and Juan Fernando López Aguilar, thank you so much for joining us here on The Ring.
27:29And thank you so much for tuning in.
27:32You can write us your views or comments at thering at yournews.com.
27:36That is our email address.
27:37Take care and stay with us here on Euronews.
27:41Euronews.
27:51Euronews.
27:52Продолжение следует...
Comments