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16:57I'd also like to bring in a new voice here.
17:03Now we'd like to bring in the voice of Viktor Orban,
17:06Prime Minister of Hungary,
17:08who's often known for going against the Brussels line.
17:11In a recent press conference,
17:13he praised Trump's operation in Venezuela
17:15and said Hungary will not leave the European Union,
17:19but the European Union will fall apart on its own.
17:23A kind of disintegration will take place
17:25and chaos will emerge in leadership.
17:28What do you make of this statement, Mr. Dal?
17:31I think Viktor Orban is a troll
17:35and I think you have to understand him
17:37as sort of a real-life social media troll
17:41who says outrageous things
17:43in order to elicit crazy responses.
17:46So it's kind of the equivalent of rage bait in real life.
17:52Well, he's also in campaign mode.
17:54It's worth pointing out as well to our viewers
17:55Lina Gavis, if you're part of a club,
17:57should you not be promoting the club and defending it?
18:00Of course.
18:02But I don't think it is a troll.
18:04I think it's part of an international far-right club.
18:11And for him, this is more important.
18:13And they have a plan.
18:14And the plan is to destroy the European Union,
18:17as it is, as it has also written down
18:19Trump now in his external strategy.
18:22So I think he's a trojan horse within the European Union.
18:26So probably it is also time for us to act regarding...
18:31But I think it's a question of psychology
18:33because, I mean, I think Viktor Orbán is totally annoying,
18:37just like you think.
18:38But from a psychological point of view,
18:40I think sometimes you need to ignore annoying people
18:42because they become more annoying
18:44if you respond to what they say.
18:46But what he says is so catchy.
18:47That's why we were playing this clip here on Euronews.
18:50But if you go silent, I mean, you ignore it.
18:54It can happen what has happened other times in history.
18:57So I don't think this is the moment.
18:59The same is with Trump.
19:02I will be very humiliating if I will be from Greenland,
19:05just saying, oh, Prime, who is that person
19:08that said Greenland should stay with Denmark?
19:12It was the prime minister.
19:13So this continuous humiliation, I'm a woman,
19:16I feel humiliated for him every time he opens his mouth.
19:20And so I don't think we should stay silent.
19:23We should be very vocal.
19:24He will lose the next election and then we are rid of him.
19:27Well, we'll have to stay tuned to see what exactly happens
19:29in those elections taking place on the 12th of April.
19:32We'll cover them very carefully for you here on Euronews.
19:34But now it is time to take a short break.
19:37But stay with us because we'll be back very, very soon
19:39with some more political punch from the European Parliament.
19:50Welcome back to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debating show.
19:54I'm joined here by MEP's Heinrich Dahl and Lina Galvez.
19:58And the idea here is to bring European Parliament debates
20:00exactly to your couch.
20:02But we also want to bring in how the public feel
20:04about all these topics.
20:05And actually, before the events of the past month,
20:07we saw Europeans were already increasingly wary
20:10of US power on the global stage.
20:12According to a survey of the European Council
20:14of Foreign Relations, about 49% of EU citizens
20:17no longer see the United States as a true ally,
20:21viewing it instead as a necessary partner.
20:23And according to the Coupe d'études géopolitiques,
20:2670% of Europeans, so 7 in 10,
20:30say the European Union should rely
20:32on its own armed forces for security.
20:35And only 10% believe Europe can rely
20:38on the US for defence.
20:39So there seems to be a very strong demand out there
20:42for European strategic autonomy.
20:44I would like to get your views as well,
20:46especially for you, Lina Galvez, as a socialist.
20:48I know this topic is very tricky
20:50when it comes to where the money should be focused.
20:51Well, I think, yes, if we really need to move
20:54towards strategic autonomy,
20:56we really need to increase our security
20:59and defence capacities.
21:01Your voters in Spain, do they support this?
21:03Oh, well, in Spain, less than in other countries.
21:07But still, it is a question of talking, really,
21:12that what is the reality,
21:13and that we really need to move more
21:15on defence and security,
21:16but also to make the changes
21:18that will make this strategic autonomy possible.
21:22Because unless we move to more Europe
21:25in other policy areas,
21:27like more fiscal linear,
21:29or even industrial policies,
21:31a common industrial policies,
21:33we really cannot talk about
21:35strategic autonomy.
21:37So what will Europeans have to give up
21:39to reach this goal?
21:40I don't know.
21:41I think that's why you have politics,
21:42because sometimes things are possible
21:44in politics that you didn't think were possible.
21:47But let me say,
21:49I was a little bit puzzled
21:50when President Macron introduced
21:52strategic autonomy in 2017.
21:54But he was ahead of his time.
21:56It was very visionary, what he said.
21:58And I'm very happy that
21:59seven out of ten people
22:01believe in this concept,
22:02because I think it's the right thing to do.
22:05But because the US is quite frankly
22:07not there,
22:07we're seeing that on a daily basis.
22:09And that's why there's so much pressure
22:10as well on Spain
22:11to increase defence funding.
22:12Exactly.
22:13But of course,
22:14we have to discuss priorities.
22:16That's what we do at home.
22:17That's what I did for almost a decade.
22:19And once you have this debate
22:21about priorities,
22:22I think most people are able
22:23to understand the landing zone
22:25eventually where the compromise is.
22:27But that means perhaps
22:27that Emmanuel Macron's strategy
22:29did work here.
22:30Well, it is.
22:31I think it is working.
22:32We are moving towards that
22:34at least a part of the chamber.
22:35I go back to what I was saying
22:36at the very beginning.
22:37There are part of the chamber,
22:39almost a third of the chamber,
22:40that are really against more Europe.
22:42And if we want to advance
22:43and to have a strategic autonomy,
22:45it's a very ample aspect.
22:48And we are doing already.
22:49We are also putting in this dual use.
22:52I'm the rapporteur from my group
22:54on the new framework program
22:55on research and innovation.
22:57And we are including dual use
22:58for everything.
22:59So the security expenditure
23:03on politics,
23:04it does not go only directly
23:07on security and defence,
23:08but also in other policies.
23:10And we are moving towards that.
23:11Because people are worried.
23:12Our viewers are concerned
23:13that we will not be able
23:14to protect the social economy
23:15that we're so proud of
23:16here in Europe.
23:17No, that's what Ukraine tells us.
23:19Because let's assume
23:20that we decided to go all in
23:22and help Ukraine.
23:23Still, what we could muster
23:25would not be enough.
23:26We are still dependent
23:28on the United States
23:28if we want to keep Russia at bay.
23:31And it's dawning on more and more people
23:33that this is the way things are.
23:34But it's not what people want,
23:35clearly, as you've seen from that poll.
23:37Yeah, but we need more Europe.
23:39I mean, of course,
23:40there are a lot of disinformation going on.
23:42And there is a lot of engineers of chaos,
23:45as Giuliano Dempoli is saying,
23:47behind those polls too.
23:49So there is a lot of misinformation going on
23:52and a lot of actors
23:53that really want to destroy the European Union.
23:56And this is also reflected in the polls
23:58in a way or another.
23:59And in the populism is that as well.
24:01So we really need to have that in mind.
24:03And what does that mean,
24:03then, on a practical level,
24:05having more Europe?
24:05Does it mean radical reforms here?
24:07We thought in Europe
24:08that we could do without hard power.
24:10But it turns out
24:11that hard power is a necessity
24:13and we have to supply
24:15the hard power ourselves.
24:16And that means
24:17that we have to change our priorities.
24:19Are our leaders, though, bold enough?
24:21Do they have enough vision?
24:22Yeah, when you put them under pressure.
24:24But they are risk-aversive
24:26because they want to be re-elected.
24:27But you have to put them
24:28under a certain amount of pressure.
24:28But it's not the problem, though.
24:29Always under pressure,
24:30under crisis,
24:31the EU can work.
24:31And if not,
24:32it's just let's wait and see.
24:34Well, we have managed in the past.
24:35To be honest,
24:36when we were in front of a crisis,
24:38we were able to go out
24:40with more Europe
24:41or a better Europe.
24:42I hope this time will be the same.
24:44However,
24:44there is a big difference.
24:46It's the polls,
24:47it's the public opinion
24:49that is more anti-European
24:52in certain areas,
24:53in certain places,
24:54and some parties
24:55that are inside the chamber
24:56and also in the council
24:57that are really against
24:59the idea of the Europe
25:00we have been building.
25:01It is time to move on
25:02to our fifth and final round.
25:04Are you ready?
25:08Now it is time
25:09for something
25:10a little bit different.
25:12I'm going to be asking
25:13our guest MEPs
25:15quick questions
25:16on set
25:17and they only have
25:17the permission
25:18to answer
25:19with a yes
25:20or a no answer.
25:22I'm not very good at that.
25:23Is that doable?
25:24Yes.
25:24Okay.
25:25Well, on that positive point
25:26we can start.
25:28Is the European Union
25:29the best place
25:30in the world
25:30to live?
25:31Yes or no?
25:32Yes.
25:33Yes.
25:34Do you think
25:35the future
25:35of the European Union
25:36is bright?
25:37Yes.
25:40Let's say yes.
25:41Let me be optimistic.
25:42I think so too.
25:44Are the EU institutions
25:46fit for purpose?
25:48Lina Galvas,
25:48yes or no?
25:49No.
25:50What about you,
25:50Mr. Dal?
25:52No,
25:52they need to tighten up.
25:54Could the European Union
25:55defend itself alone
25:56if the European,
25:57United States,
25:58excuse me,
25:59did not step in
26:00to help Mr. Dal?
26:01No.
26:02Lina?
26:03No.
26:03Can the European Union
26:05respond quickly enough
26:06to various global crises?
26:09Yes or no?
26:09Lina Galvas?
26:11No.
26:12What about you,
26:13Mr. Dal?
26:13No.
26:15Is the role
26:16of Kaya Callas,
26:17that's the EU
26:18Foreign Affairs Chief,
26:19is it important?
26:19Yes or no?
26:20No.
26:21Mr. Dal,
26:22same question to you.
26:23Yes,
26:23I think so.
26:25What about
26:25Trump's attempts
26:27to take Greenland?
26:29Could this see
26:29the end
26:30of the NATO alliance?
26:32Mr. Dal?
26:32Yes.
26:34What about you,
26:34Mr?
26:35Yes.
26:35Yeah?
26:36Should the European Union
26:37have its own army,
26:39Lina Galvas?
26:40Yes.
26:40Would you agree with that?
26:41Yes or no?
26:42Should we have
26:42her own army?
26:43No.
26:44And are EU leaders,
26:46do you think,
26:46in control
26:47of their own destiny?
26:50No.
26:50Yes or no?
26:53Yes.
26:54Is it time
26:55to radically reform
26:56the EU?
26:56Yes or no?
26:57Yes.
26:58Yes.
26:59And on that point
27:00of the need
27:01to radically reform
27:02we can bring
27:03this conversation
27:03to an end.
27:04I'm sure you could
27:05continue discussing
27:06all these issues
27:07at length
27:07but this does bring
27:08this show to an end.
27:09Thank you so much
27:10as well to our viewers
27:11for tuning in.
27:12If you would like
27:13to reach out to us
27:14and let us know
27:15how you feel
27:15about any of these topics
27:16you can read
27:17or you can write to us
27:18on The Ring
27:18at Euronews.com
27:20but for now
27:20thank you so much
27:21for watching.
27:22Thank you also
27:22to Lina Galvez
27:23and to Henrik Dahl
27:24from Denmark
27:25for joining us
27:26and being our guests.
27:27Take care
27:27and see you soon
27:28here on Euronews.
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