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00:00I do think it's interesting. I mean, we just have spent so much time about, like, what's the bar?
00:05It's interesting that everybody's kind of unanimous in, like, because you've chosen your path,
00:10because you've got, obviously, Toronto and then Detroit,
00:14anything short of facing off against whoever's going to be there in the East
00:17is going to really not just be a failure, but lead to immediate and potentially drastic change.
00:24Yeah, the lines have been easily drawn, and I find that part of the convo to be incredible,
00:28because I thought it was going to be murky the entire time,
00:30and maybe part of this is Cade Cunningham's injury and the idea that he hasn't come back
00:35and just in the couple games he was able to actually play light it up
00:39and everyone thinks that he's going to just be the same old Cade Cunningham that led him to 60 games,
00:44or 60 wins, excuse me, and so, like, I feel like it's pretty set.
00:48Like, you've got to make it to the Eastern Conference Finals.
00:49If you don't, there's going to be changes.
00:51If you do, then you'll be able to go into the offseason and figure out where it went right,
00:55where it went wrong, et cetera.
00:56So, I guess my question is, so, you know, last year it was,
01:00and Darius even said it in the summer, man, if Darius had been healthy,
01:04we would have been in the finals, that kind of thing.
01:06Oh, you're talking about if there's an injury or something that derails this?
01:08Yeah, because I don't think the fact that they had a short runway or health,
01:13guys, that's every team in the NBA.
01:15Like, health has been a factor for four years.
01:18Right, and we can't just use health as an excuse every single year either.
01:22At some point, that just runs old.
01:23Especially if it's like, no, then listen, I think Jared is incredibly important,
01:26so I'm not trying to dismiss him.
01:28But if Harden's healthy, if Donovan's healthy, and if Mobley's healthy, we'll figure it out.
01:33I know, the problem is, like, if it's a Donovan injury, how do we have this convo?
01:36You know what I mean?
01:38And that's why there's just so much room for interpretation with that.
01:41But I think it's pretty clear.
01:43If something happens, or something doesn't happen, and you've got to remain relatively healthy,
01:47then the expectation should be Eastern Conference Finals, and if not, there's going to be some changes.
01:51Now, what I'd love to know from the Cavaliers is, you know, like, I think it was Danny said,
01:57well, I'm pretty sure Kobe's safe, and I'm pretty sure Kenny Atkinson is safe, you know,
02:02but I think fans would blame Kenny Atkinson, which I think is fair.
02:05We always blame the head coach.
02:07Yeah, typically.
02:08You blame the head coach first.
02:09I wonder where Dan Gilbert's on this, because remember, I think Kobe wanted to hire James Borrego.
02:15Dan overruled him with Kenny Atkinson, so he didn't hire the head coach.
02:20Obviously, Dan has put up a lot of money to allow, not just for trading for Donovan Mitchell,
02:25the biggest swing you made, since trading for Kevin Love a decade ago, but also paying the luxury tax.
02:31There is a spot here where Dan can love the front office structure and still understand that there's a world
02:38without Kobe Altman going forward.
02:39Well, we know that he wants results.
02:41He's such a results-driven guy, and so if you fail to deliver the results, I guess anything would be
02:46on the table.
02:46I like Kobe Altman. I like what Kobe Altman's been able to deliver.
02:50I give him a lot of credit for the Harden trade.
02:52We've gone back and forth on that, obviously, a lot.
02:55That, to me, is a plus.
02:56That, to me, is a, okay, good, you recognize what was going wrong,
02:59and then you try to make a move so that this season wasn't just lost.
03:02But, yeah, if you're a results-driven human and they fail short, then, yeah, anything's on the table.
03:06What's going to be interesting is what's the narrative if they fall short.
03:10Because if the narrative is, man, James Harden's still not ready for the playoffs,
03:15I think the James Harden trade's going to be viewed differently around the NBA.
03:19Like, it already had us a lot.
03:20More people are on my side than they are on your side around the NBA.
03:23I think it's going to be really hard for him to just have an absolute nothing burger of a postseason.
03:28Well, see, I think the problem is James has had good, decent, whatever postseasons.
03:35It's kind of like the Evan Mobley conversation we had yesterday.
03:38It's, well, what about that game?
03:39Well, what about that game, an elimination game?
03:42And this is where I am sympathetic to James, who I don't think is a bad dude.
03:49I have a little bit different view of the human being since watching him in Cleveland.
03:53I am rooting for him to uproot the narrative.
03:55But, like, you could have, if you play 16 games in the playoffs, and you have one bad game,
04:03and that's the last bad game, and that's the elimination game,
04:06well, that's going to go with the rest of the proof that says you're just not a playoff player.
04:12Yeah, but in previous iterations of James Harden, he's been asked to be the guy that goes out there
04:16and scores 35, and then he scores 23, and people complain about it.
04:20You know, like, that's not what the Cavs are asking James Harden to do,
04:22and that's why I think it's going to be...
04:23Doesn't that make it harder, though?
04:24No, I don't know. I think it makes it easier.
04:26Because I think it's easier if you score 30 points a game in a postseason game.
04:29I think it's easier to say, hey, look what I did. Look at the win I just gave you.
04:33Whereas if James is going 15-9 for every game, and you lose a game,
04:38people are going to say, well, where the hell was James Harden?
04:40No, I don't think they will.
04:41Maybe 15-9 is pushing the low end of points that people would allow, but like...
04:45Even 18-9.
04:47All we averaged here throughout the past two months was 20-8.
04:51It's not like the expectation has to be something crazy high.
04:54People aren't expecting him to go 28-9 and legitimately outscore and outpace what he was even doing in Los
05:01Angeles.
05:01I think people...
05:02Listen, I think there's what people might say going to the playoffs, and then there's the reality.
05:08James Harden has the big ticket brand, and he's going to be held to a standard, and it might not
05:13be fair,
05:13but this is all part...
05:16The two biggest swings in terms of NBA perception, or two of the biggest swings in NBA perception that can
05:22happen,
05:23one is the Cavs because of Harden and how he plays, and the other, ironically, is Darius Garland,
05:29where there is no perception of Darius Garland now.
05:31If the Clippers get into a seven-game series and maybe advance to the second round,
05:36and Darius has a great series, that's another thing that I think is going to place pressure on the perception
05:42meter.
05:42They've got to get past tonight first.
05:43They've got a long way before they're even talking about that.
05:46I'm not that afraid of this Warriors team.
05:47They've got a long way before they're even talking about that.
05:48This is a toothless Warriors team.
05:50It's Steph Curry on a minutes restriction.
05:51It's a weird thing, but they've got a long way.
05:53I know, but I think it's going to be incredibly hard the way this is set up to have James
05:58Harden
05:58just have an absolute stinker.
06:00The way it's...
06:01With Donovan having to carry the majority of the load...
06:04Do you think people are ready for James Harden as the playing guard of the Cavs?
06:08I just don't know that the rest of the NBA has adjusted what they think of James Harden
06:11and what this version of James Harden is, and that might be the battle that he's got to take,
06:14but for me and you and people that have been watching the Cavs,
06:17I don't need to tell Cavs fans listening out there.
06:19I think we all know what this version of James Harden is relative to what he was,
06:24at least when he was in Houston, and especially when he was in Los Angeles.
06:27I think we can say that in the regular season.
06:30Once you get into the postseason...
06:31I know you know this.
06:32I'm just making a point.
06:34Once you get into the postseason, it's the same reason why, again,
06:38Chet Holmgren can have a 4-point, 6-point, 9-point game
06:41in three of the six NBA Finals games last year,
06:44and he just completely gets off scot-free because he won.
06:47Evan Mobley can have those exact same three games,
06:49and people go, he's a big failure.
06:51Why isn't he the greatest center on earth?
06:53Only way I'll get mad at James Harden is if James Harden...
06:56He's had a couple of these games, okay?
06:57There's a couple games where he just shoots horrendous from the field,
07:00but I'm talking like a 6-for-24, which he had a week and a half ago.
07:04If he has one of those type of games where it's like,
07:06James, you don't get 24 shots, man.
07:09I'm not giving you 24 shots to go ahead and be that inefficient from the field.
07:13I think that's the only way I end up agitated with James Harden in a big-time game.
07:17And I think if that comes out, I'm going to look at that as a sign
07:22that James is feeling the pressure of the postseason burden
07:26that has been bestowed upon him.
07:27Yeah, that would be really weird, and I'm just not expecting it.
07:29I think it'd be weird.
07:30No, no, no.
07:30Let me finish for a second.
07:31It'd be really weird if all of a sudden you're in a Game 7 situation,
07:36and then James Harden just completely forgets what his role is here
07:39and just takes over and tries to basically make it the James Harden show,
07:43and it's just as ball-dominant as ball-dominant gets,
07:46and usage rate through the ceiling.
07:47First off, I don't know that Donovan would let that happen,
07:49but I just think it'd be a weird development.
07:52I've got to brace for it.
07:53It's on the table, I guess, but I'm just not expecting it.
07:56I think, I guess here's my thing.
07:59I'm not willing, I'm not ready yet to say what I'm prepared and unprepared to see.
08:05Meaning, I think everything's, the same thing we're talking about,
08:07if they get bounced out before the Eastern Conference Finals,
08:11everything's on the table, not just the easy fall guy stuff.
08:15I feel the same way about, like, hey, could you see a scenario
08:18where you get deep into a playoff series and there's friction
08:23because James and Donovan just haven't figured it out
08:26on who's going to be who on any given night?
08:28Yeah, I can.
08:29Like, this is still so new.
08:31Like, that was part of the risk that I was uncomfortable with, you know,
08:35six weeks ago.
08:36I don't know definitively it's going to happen, by the way.
08:39Well, I mean, what we've seen as of right now
08:41is it's a pretty clear identity of it's Donovan.
08:44Yeah, because it's the end of the regular season.
08:45No, no, maybe that's easy to be there.
08:47It might change, but, like, the early evidence we've got
08:50in the time that James Harden has been here
08:51is he understands what his role here is
08:53and he understands this is Donovan's team, it's not his.
08:55I think the playoffs are the perfect pressure cooker
08:57to find out everything about everyone.
09:00Anything you've ever wanted to know, just put them in the NBA playoffs,
09:03especially once you get past the first round,
09:05and you're going to find out.
09:07And, like, and again, like, I am, do I understand
09:09that there's a world of possibilities that really stink from here,
09:13whether it's Harden's future or Donovan's future or Evan's future
09:16or, you know, scapegoating Kenny Atkinson,
09:20which I think would be ridiculous because he's not the,
09:22if you fall short here, guys, you fell short with J.B. Vickerstaff.
09:25At some point, let's just put it on the best player on the team.
09:28Let's put it on the best players on the team.
09:31That's the conversations we should be having.
09:33But I understand, like, those are all downside, right?
09:36And yet, I'm sitting here just, I'm praying for the truth.
09:40That's it.
09:41I'm not, like, if the truth is this Cavs team can win a championship,
09:45let's get it up.
09:47Let's get to the Eastern Conference.
09:47We got a lot of games to let them kind of showcase what this is.
09:50If the truth is it's time to make a decision between Donovan and Evan,
09:54I know how some people are going to choose.
09:56Or, honestly, if it's Donovan's time to make a decision,
09:58okay, I'm welcoming of it.
10:00Like, I'm not bored of this.
10:01I think the Harden trade was them already deciding
10:02what they thought between Donovan and Evan.
10:04No, I don't think so.
10:06I think that was getting out from under Darius' contract.
10:09I think it was getting below the, or, sorry,
10:11getting close to below the luxury tax.
10:13That was them looking at it saying,
10:14Evan hasn't taken the offensive leap,
10:15and now we've got to really attack with Donovan.
10:17I will revisit that this summer.
10:20But, no, I mean, I think my point is,
10:22I thought I would be so much more filled with dread with where we are.
10:27I'm really excited.
10:28I don't know how it's going to go.
10:29I'm pretty sure they, no, no,
10:31I know they can get to the Eastern Conference Finals.
10:34Will they?
10:35I thought they were going to get to the Eastern Conference Finals last year.
10:38And whether it's Darius staying healthy or, I don't know,
10:42having another wing that had some stones on him, a big wing,
10:45maybe you are in the NBA Finals last year
10:48and we don't have to have the unpleasant conversations.
10:50There's a part of me, though, that's relieved that we're here.
10:53Like, all right, let's go.
10:55Like, Kobe finally had to do something.
10:56Kobe finally had to mix up the action.
11:00If you didn't get the Mercury right now, we're going to play with it again this summer.
11:03I know.
11:03This should be the fun times.
11:04But it's also not that doom and gloom, in my opinion, either.
11:07Like, if it doesn't work out, then, yes, they have to go back to the drawing board.
11:10They have to figure this whole thing out.
11:12But it's not as if every chip is in the middle of the table
11:14and this is the only year you're going to have a chance to play at it.
11:16Now, I do think the East is going to get tougher.
11:18Real quick, you might.
11:20I think we all need to understand that this could be your championship window slamming shut this year.
11:26There is the idea that Donovan gets so frustrated by it all
11:28and he takes himself out of the equation.
11:29I guess I've got to open that up and maybe that's like a 3% consideration that I have right
11:33now.
11:33They also could make a basketball decision about Donovan, JP.
11:37That's what I just said.
11:37Well, no, no, no.
11:38I think you were saying the Donovan side of things.
11:40Oh, you think they would just cut ties with Donovan?
11:42I don't want to say cut ties, but do I think they could look at this and go,
11:45have we taken this as far as we can go?
11:47He's going to be 30.
11:49Let's see if we can rebuild this thing and give Evan a chance to be the face of the franchise.
11:54Yes.
11:55That's an unpopular opinion to have today, but do I think it's absolutely on the table?
11:58100%.
11:58It's off the table for me.
11:59It's in a different room.
12:00What would you think?
12:01Actually, it's right here.
12:02No, I took it off the table.
12:02I moved it to a different room.
12:04It's not even the same.
12:04It's in a different house.
12:05It's in a different house, actually.
12:07Yep.
12:07And then if you try to do something different, like crack the door open to let that back in,
12:11Yeah, we've got a little breeze in here.
12:12It is a little.
12:13Door's closed.
12:14Listen, I understand why you say that today.
12:17We'll have that conversation about six weeks from now, depending on how things go.
12:20Evan hasn't shown me enough to have them be like, we're off Donovan.
12:23I don't think he's been put in a position offensively to do it.
12:26It's a bold play.
12:28That's what NBA teams do.
12:29The best NBA teams make bold plays.
12:31You wouldn't be setting yourself up for anything better than what you were this year with that, though.
12:35Yeah, I mean, you might have to take a step back before you take a step forward.
12:38You would.
12:39Yeah.
12:39You know, and again, it's a risk.
12:40I'm not telling you it's not a risk.
12:42I'm just saying that, like, guys, if you've been to the playoffs four straight years, Donovan's never been past the
12:47second round of the playoffs.
12:48And by the way, he's never he was never in Utah either.
12:51At some point, how much how much can you give to a guy that isn't getting you there as your
12:57best player?
12:57You know, I'm like you, love that man.
12:57You know, I'm just doing this.
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