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SportsTranscript
00:00John Fanta, NBC Sports, joining us now, Ohio's own, Northeast Ohio's own.
00:05John, welcome to the show.
00:08Great to be with you guys. Happy Tuesday, as always. Hope your brackets are intact.
00:12Well, we actually have not talked a lot of brackets. I will tell you, though,
00:17I'm in third place in the company.
00:20Mac, where are you right now, buddy?
00:23We don't need to talk about that.
00:24I think he's on the second page. You have to go to the bottom and then scan over.
00:31But, quite frankly, he's only like 10 points behind,
00:33so there's a chance he could still have beating me, and it would be real humiliation from here.
00:37So you're saying Mac will make the cut for the weekend.
00:41He's just not really, it's an afterthought in terms of being able to win the pool.
00:45There's no cut for the weekend, John.
00:46Yeah, it's a company one. Everyone makes it.
00:49Now, John, do you have a bracket you actually play,
00:53or are you above such things as your Mr. College Basketball?
00:56No, I signed my bracket. I published it last week.
00:59I'm sure Mac is a man of integrity.
01:02It was very like Obama in the president's office with you signing it.
01:06Yeah, I did, I did. I got 12 of the Sweet 16.
01:09There's a couple I didn't have. I certainly didn't have Texas.
01:13I did not have them, and I didn't have Iowa over Florida.
01:17Oh, you're getting killed for Iowa over Florida. What's going on there?
01:22Yeah. You know, it's funny, because I've got it right after I get off with you guys.
01:26I'm posting the interview with Iowa's coach, and you know what he said to me?
01:29He goes, I don't blame you one bit. I wouldn't have picked us either.
01:33So I appreciate that from Ben McCollum there, coach.
01:36Yeah, I'm getting killed.
01:37I thought Florida would steamroll through, and they didn't because they couldn't hit a three.
01:42And so much of the college game is that whether or not you're knocking down perimeter shots,
01:46and if one team does and the other team does not, well, you could be looking up and saying,
01:51how is this a game? Because Florida's the more, honestly, the more talented team on paper,
01:55but that's the art of the one-game playoff. It really is.
01:59All right. Walk us through what happened with Iowa's head coach and Todd Golden.
02:03That looked more than just that moment. Do those guys hate each other, and we don't know it?
02:09No. I mean, I don't know where that precipitated from.
02:12It's not like they have some sort of random pre-existing relationship.
02:15I mean, Ben McCollum was a Division II coach for 15 years before he got the Drake job last year.
02:21I think people hear things, you know, I think behind the scenes.
02:26I mean, guys, I'll tell you right now, there's coaches that I hear about in the offseason
02:31that will call some of the best players on teams.
02:35I'll be real with you.
02:37Brayton Smith, who is Purdue's best player and now the all-time assist leader
02:43in college basketball history, he is signed and set to be back at Purdue last year,
02:48and a fellow Big Ten coach calls him up and says,
02:51I'm going to give you $7 million, and here's how we're going to distribute it,
02:55and I'm going to do it under the table, all this stuff.
02:58And it never really gets back to, like, excuse me, it gets back to Matt Painter,
03:03and Matt Painter is ticked off about that.
03:05And, you know, this type of stuff, I think, is happening all over the sport.
03:11So, who knows?
03:11I mean, Ben McCollum's best player is Bennett Sturtz.
03:15It would not shock me one bit if Florida had said, we're going to get Bennett Sturtz,
03:18and here's how we're going to get him, and tried to work with the agent.
03:21I'm not saying I genuinely don't know if that's the case,
03:24but a lot of times when coaches get ticked off at other coaches,
03:27it's more than just the game at hand.
03:29There's something behind closed doors that happens that precipitates that.
03:33And that's a huge part of college football and college basketball now.
03:36It is, because tampering is legal.
03:39You are allowed to tamper.
03:41And so some people have suggested that the tournament has been weaker because of that,
03:44and all the NIL money at stake.
03:46You saw Friday 16-0 for the favorites.
03:48Where do you fall in line with that?
03:50I mean, obviously we're set up now for a Sweet 16 that's got a lot of great teams involved,
03:54but is the Cinderella now kind of extinct out of what was a big part of this tournament for so
03:59many years?
04:00Yeah, JP, I don't think that she is extinct.
04:04I think Santa Clara was an Otego away, missed, half-court shot away from winning,
04:10and they could have won two games.
04:12High Point was in the game with Arkansas with a minute and a half to go,
04:15and they just lost.
04:16I mean, Darius Acuff had 36 points.
04:18Being Cinderella is harder than it has been before, but sports goes through cycles,
04:23and I do think you're going to see mid-major schools just try to increase their commitment level
04:30to their teams as much as they can.
04:33Revenue sharing now is a university decision, whether that's in football or basketball.
04:37I was on the morning show last Friday, and they said,
04:41what does it take for Ohio State to get back on the map?
04:43And I said, well, for starters, you've got to get back into being a top-five spending program in the
04:47Big Ten.
04:47Like, if you want to be serious, you have to dedicate certain resources.
04:52Now, somebody could say, but John, those mid-major programs don't have the resources
04:56that an SEC or Big 12 school does, and they never will.
05:00Well, they never have.
05:02I think that there's just – we're in an adjustment zone right now.
05:05I don't think Cinderella forever is going to be extinct.
05:08I do think there's going to be a 12 or 13 seed.
05:11I mean, there could have been on Saturday night.
05:13If you watch the High Point-Arkansas game, or if you didn't, I'm telling you right now,
05:18High Point had every right to win that game, and they didn't.
05:20And then we'd be saying, well, you know, there's a 12 seed, and they did find a way to make
05:24it.
05:24There's been years – from 2007 to 2009, the only nine, one, two, or three seed
05:30to make the Elite Eight was Steph Curry and Davidson.
05:33And during those couple of years, people were like, yeah, this is a little bit lame.
05:37Okay, but then tell me how the ratings are.
05:40Tell me how the viewership is.
05:41This past weekend was the most watched first weekend of the tournament that we've ever seen.
05:45So, is the tournament changed?
05:47Yes, it absolutely is.
05:49But is the tournament now bad because of it?
05:51No.
05:53All right, John, enough of that stuff.
05:54Let's get to some Cavaliers talk here.
05:57Is this postseason about changing the Cavs' own perception of themselves as much as anyone else's perception?
06:04Yeah, absolutely.
06:05It couldn't be more.
06:07I mean, the Cavaliers are their own – they've been their own worst enemy.
06:11In the playoffs, I don't even look at the opponent.
06:13I look at how are they playing and how are they raising their level.
06:17Because they've gotten pushed around, guys.
06:20The Cavs haven't been the aggressor in these playoff series losses.
06:25Whether it was last year to the Indiana Pacers.
06:30Whether it was to the Orlando Magic in a series that went seven games.
06:35And that's something that could be – they're meeting the Magic tonight.
06:40And the Magic are now back to eighth.
06:43But Toronto, if they were – let's just say they were to meet Toronto.
06:46I think a lot of people would be like, yeah, you know, the Cavaliers are the favorites in that series.
06:50They should win the series.
06:51Well, they should win the series.
06:52But what you're failing to acknowledge is that Toronto has three big wings who all score the ball and who
06:57are all physical and tough.
06:59And so my point is, like, the Cavs, ever since this window opened up –
07:05and I can't remember the first time they were in a playoff series with the New York Knicks now, you
07:09know, a few years back.
07:10And they got punked in that series.
07:12And then they got punked again.
07:15They have not been able to show that they have the strength to really fight tooth and nail and take
07:23down the brass of the Eastern Conference.
07:26This year needs to be the year that they show that they can do that.
07:31It is as much about themselves as it is anything.
07:33But it's also why you brought in James Harden.
07:35Because here's my counter question to you.
07:38Had the Cavaliers not brought in James Harden, would you feel better or worse about their chances?
07:44My answer would be you would feel worse about their chances to show something different.
07:48Would Darius Garland be playing the way he seems to be playing right now with the Clippers?
07:56Darius Garland, I don't care how he's playing right now.
07:57I mean, the numbers are exactly the same, though.
07:59I care how he's playing in the playoffs, Nick.
08:01I could give two you-know-what's about how he's playing right now.
08:06I want to see him get done in a playoff series.
08:08And he's an unproven playoff player.
08:13I mean, I agree with you, John.
08:14I think the odds are they're drastically higher with James Harden instead of Darius Garland.
08:18And it's nice that Darius is having a good seven games to start off his Clippers career.
08:22But that doesn't change anything for me.
08:23Well, I think the point was we were gauging the idea that Darius wouldn't play at all in the playoffs
08:28because he hadn't really played much this season.
08:30And I think Darius playing well now has people remembering Darius is still a good basketball player.
08:36Nobody ever denied Darius was good.
08:38Oh, that's not entirely true, John.
08:41We had plenty of people talking about him like he was a scrub-ass, which he is not a scrub
08:44-ass.
08:45No, it's a little bit of Baker Mayfield syndrome.
08:49Like, they're a good player, but we're talking about winning playoff series.
08:52We're talking about winning at the next level in the postseason.
08:56So, naturally, we traded for James Harden.
08:59Yes, who has been in a very hard Western Conference and still had the Clippers in a Game 7 against
09:05Nikola Jokic in the Denver Nuggets.
09:07Now, did they make the finals in that one?
09:10The Eastern Conference is easier than the Western Conference.
09:14It just is.
09:14It is.
09:16It's not even up for debate.
09:19The Cavs should want to be in the 4-5 game.
09:22They should want to be in the 4-5 series because they can win that series and then they get
09:27Detroit.
09:27And Detroit doesn't have a secondary scorer.
09:30The Cavaliers have one of the best scoring duos in the league, if not on their best day, the very
09:34best.
09:35I mean, that duo of Mitchell and Harden can go and get theirs in a heartbeat.
09:39And the Detroit Pistons cannot counter that.
09:42They can't.
09:43They can try to defend it.
09:44They can try to slow it down.
09:45They can try to get in the mud.
09:46But if Mitchell and Harden play their best game, the Cavaliers are going to beat the Detroit Pistons in six
09:51games.
09:51That's what's going to happen.
09:53And then they're in the Eastern Conference Finals and you get the Celtics or Knicks.
09:56And I think Cavs fans would say, where do we sign?
09:58Like, let's go.
10:00That's what this is about.
10:01You haven't even gotten to the Conference Finals.
10:03You have not even gotten to, and neither has Donovan Mitchell.
10:07So you couldn't say status quo.
10:12I guess, John, the question we've kind of been going back and forth on,
10:14because I think making the Conference Finals is a success.
10:18I think that's a good mark for them.
10:20And I think that's, you show enough within that that justifies the Harden trade.
10:24It justifies moving forward and doing what you want to do.
10:26But the counter to that would be that if you're not playing a tough enough opponent in round one or
10:31round two,
10:32and you're the heavy favorites, I would imagine, in both those series,
10:34what are you really showing everybody if then you lose to Boston or you lose to the Knicks in round
10:39three?
10:40I think we would have to see how that would go.
10:43Is it going six hard-fought games and you're just falling short?
10:46Is it going seven games?
10:47You know, you're talking about teams that are capable of being in a...
10:52The Cavaliers have to show that they can be an NBA Finals team.
10:56That's what they need to show.
10:58And I think right now, if you ask the common person outside of Cleveland,
11:02they'd probably say, yeah, I don't buy it.
11:04You know, I buy the Celtics or Knicks before I buy them.
11:07And guess what?
11:08You can't blame them for saying that.
11:10Because have the Cavs...
11:12Has Evan Mobley proved that he could do it at this level?
11:15Has Donovan Mitchell proved?
11:16And so this goes back to the original question, which is,
11:19the Cavs, this is more about them than it is about anybody else.
11:22They have to prove it to themselves.
11:24They have to prove it to this city.
11:26You know, they've got one of the best home courts in the NBA.
11:29They really do.
11:31And in the playoffs, it should show.
11:34It's just, it's now about doing it.
11:36But you're going to have imposter syndrome until you step up and break through.
11:41This is the elephant in the room with Donovan Mitchell,
11:43who I respect the heck out of.
11:46I love what he's brought to Cleveland.
11:47I love that he, you know, signed an extension in Cleveland,
11:51decided to be in Cleveland after when he originally was sent to Cleveland.
11:55People said, well, this will just be temporary,
11:57and it's not actually going to last.
11:59No, it's lasted.
12:00It's been great.
12:01But now it's about this team getting to the conference finals,
12:05and then you see how that goes, JP.
12:08I think we don't know until, we obviously don't know until we get there.
12:12It's not good enough to play either of those two teams and lose the series in five games.
12:17It's not.
12:17But I know this much, your chances of getting there increased when you brought in James Harden.
12:22And I also know Nick Wilson has said that he doesn't really,
12:26that he doesn't care in terms of,
12:28he knows that the Western Conference champion is probably going to be the NBA champion.
12:32And you know what, Nick?
12:33I don't have a counterargument for that.
12:34I think you're right, but I'd rather throw my chips on the table
12:39and try to build on this than stay status quo,
12:42because with this current, with what the roster was prior to trading for James Harden,
12:49they were not going to be able to get it done.
12:51I don't even think they had enough to get to the conference finals.
12:54All I took away from that is I was right.
12:57You were right on that.
12:59You are right on that.
13:01You are, hey, we can both admit when we're right or wrong,
13:04or at least I think we can.
13:05You're right about the uphill mountain that it's going to take
13:09for whoever the Eastern Conference champion is in June.
13:12That's a factual statement, Nick Wilson.
13:14You're 100% right.
13:16I love everything about this, where this is going here.
13:20Don't stop now, King.
13:21Are you supposed to tell him now the parts you think he's wrong at or no?
13:24No, no, no.
13:25We're not doing that.
13:26John doesn't think I'm wrong.
13:28I think he's wrong because I think he's like,
13:30well, what's it worth?
13:31What's it really worth?
13:32I hate that.
13:33That's a loser mentality.
13:34Let me ask you, John.
13:37Four years ago.
13:38Loser mentality.
13:39Four years ago.
13:40You win Wilson, everybody.
13:41Did you trade?
13:42By the way, still waiting on that burger.
13:43Did you trade for Donovan Mitchell so you could really just get popped out
13:48in like a really highly competitive Eastern Conference finals?
13:51I forgot about that.
13:52I thought we were talking championships,
13:54not getting waxed by Boston in a real plucky six-game series.
13:59Hold on.
13:59I just flipped your burger over.
14:01It's hard as, it's, I almost said it's hard as a rock.
14:05You could have said that.
14:07Yeah, I just didn't.
14:08There's other things that can't be hard, John.
14:11It's well done, Nick Wilson.
14:13That's what the burger is at this point.
14:15It's burned.
14:15Yeah.
14:16Here's the deal.
14:17Pettis still tastes good.
14:20You went and you, yeah.
14:22It tastes like the end of the Stefanski era.
14:25That was your guy.
14:28Until it wasn't.
14:29That was your guy.
14:30Until it wasn't.
14:30We had a knock-em-out drag-out.
14:32I would need to remind you of this.
14:33The idea that he was so much better than Steven Vogt.
14:37Just a wild.
14:39You trade for him to win a championship.
14:44And to this point, you haven't gotten close to that.
14:47But I do think that there's something to be said about the other members of the, quote,
14:54core four, that, you know, that that now looks different.
14:58They haven't performed up to standards when the goings got tough.
15:01I mean, is anyone blaming Donovan Mitchell for losing the series to the Pacers last year?
15:06The team was, the team was worn down, injured, and frankly, spent.
15:11And it showed in that series.
15:13So, I don't subscribe to playing the blame game on Mitchell.
15:18What other top 15 player gets a hall pass for not being passed the second round of the playoffs
15:23his entire career with two different organizations?
15:27I'm not giving him a hall pass, but I'm not sitting here and saying that he's part of the problem.
15:32Well, I mean, by nature, if you haven't been part of the solution, you do deserve some part of the
15:37blame, no?
15:38Well, he hasn't been able to break through.
15:43But he hasn't been able to break through because him and Darius Garland together was not a good combination.
15:48And Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, to this point, hasn't been a good enough combination in the playoffs.
15:52They haven't shown that they can score the ball efficiently, effectively, throughout a seven-game series.
15:57Donovan is a top 15 player for a reason, but the Cavaliers roster has not – it just hasn't fit.
16:04The pieces to the puzzle haven't fit, and that's why you get a perfect guy to be the sidekick to
16:09Donovan and James Carden.
16:10Let's see how it works in the postseason.
16:12What other top 15 player in NBA history has been given a pass when they've fallen short in the playoffs,
16:19let alone not be able to crack through the second round of the playoffs?
16:21I'm just doing this simply for the sake of this conversation.
16:24Well, Kevin Durant went to the Golden State Warriors to go ring hunting.
16:28He was in the NBA Finals, though, previously.
16:31And by the way, he got a lot of crap for not winning a championship in OKC and going to
16:35Golden State.
16:37So we want to push –
16:39And what does that matter now?
16:40But we want to put Donovan Mitchell up.
16:42But we want to put Donovan Mitchell up as a great player,
16:44and then when it comes time to having expectations for that great player, it's, well, it's not his fault.
16:49It feels a little cake and eat it, too.
16:51John?
16:54I think that – so what is the alternative that you're suggesting then?
16:59Oh, no, no, no.
17:00I'm simply saying I think we should – if we're going to push Donovan up,
17:04we kind of have to say he has some part of what's happened the last four years.
17:08Like he has been on the teams – and in his career, he's been on teams that have underperformed, right?
17:14He does have some part in not reaching the level that you want to reach.
17:19There's – I'm not – I don't think I'm denying that.
17:22I'm just saying that – I'm not saying that he is – if he's part of the problem, he's the
17:28smallest part of it.
17:29It's not like he has fizzled out in playoff series.
17:31He's had some mammoth games and games the Cavs haven't won because the Cavs' other main players have either been
17:37injured
17:38or have gotten punked, have gotten punked when they've been out there.
17:44In that Indiana series, at the end, he was doing a lot of hero ball, and especially like in the
17:50first half,
17:50Evan Mobley was really good, and then he kind of disappeared because Donovan tried to take over,
17:55and then Donovan fell short.
17:57Darius did, too, for what it's worth.
17:58I just want to – like, Darius has had some clunkers in the playoffs since being here,
18:03even if, again, I don't think it's really his fault.
18:06Like, the biggest fault is all on him.
18:11I think that there's more fault on him than you're willing to give out.
18:17It sounds like you are thinking – in my opinion, you're saying that Darius Garland
18:23should be getting more credit than what's being due and that you were still willing to see
18:28if Darius Garland got better for the Cavaliers.
18:30I believe that I was talking about that.
18:32And which one of Donovan's 8-for-25 performance in Game 5 last year against Indiana?
18:38Which one of those was your favorite play?
18:41Which one of the times that Darius Garland has been pushed around, punked, out-physicaled,
18:46out-muscled, and withered has been your favorite time that he's performed in the playoffs?
18:51Donovan's also been that.
18:52He went 3-of-11 and took 11 shots in Game 4.
18:57Darius Garland doesn't hold a candle to Donovan Mitchell.
19:00That we agree on.
19:01John, we do have to boogie here, but still waiting for that burger, buddy.
19:05Steve Nash, Carmelo Anthony, Dominique Wilkins, Tracy McGrady, Chris Paul.
19:09What was that?
19:10Oh, the list of really great players that never made an NBA Finals.
19:13You mean the guys who have also been –
19:15Exactly. I was going to say Tracy McGrady.
19:16You mean the guys who have been criticized for not making the NBA Finals?
19:19But we don't do that with Donovan.
19:20That's how Donovan will be remembered.
19:21When his career is done, his career is not done.
19:23When his career is done –
19:24We said those things about all of those guys in real time.
19:26But he's not isolated.
19:29He's not the only person in NBA history to have gone through postseason struggles.
19:34No, I never said he was.
19:35Well, as I said, he's the only guy that doesn't seem to be – like it doesn't hurt him at
19:39all.
19:39He's a top 15 player.
19:41It gets brought up all the time about him.
19:42When?
19:43When in town?
19:45When have I heard anybody else here?
19:47No, real quick.
19:47When have I heard anyone else here at this station or on the radio in Cleveland?
19:52Constantly.
19:53No.
19:53Him not getting past the second round is like the main storyline of Donovan.
19:56No, no, no.
19:57But it hasn't been a criticism.
19:58He's absolved of blame from that.
20:00That was the point, is that Jersey John here is absolving him of blame.
20:05Am I still on?
20:06You are, buddy.
20:08Well, I just – you know, I can't believe we didn't get a chance to talk about A.J. Epinez.
20:12I thought that was a good signing by the Browns, and I've got the Guardians overhitting.
20:16Have a good day, guys.
20:17See you, buddy.
20:17Bye, John.
20:17John Fanta there, NBC Sports at the Make It Right Call, Cotteride Hotline.
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