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00:00Well, thank you for carving out time in the midst of that because I know you are a big soccer
00:05honk, and this is going pretty well so far.
00:08On the Sabres, let's start at the top here with the news of the day, which is some reporting from
00:14ESPN's Kevin Weeks indicating that Zach Benson might be on the cusp of a seven-year, $7 million commitment.
00:21Joe, I said last hour on the show that I think this has the potential to have the highest approval
00:29rating in Sabres' contract history.
00:31Like, I think the, oh, no, but what about blank crowd is just, they all, everybody loves, we all love
00:38Zach Benson.
00:40Yeah, it's, to me, what I was thinking about, like, you know, what could Benson sign for?
00:46What could the contract be? I said, if you're, like, if you aim to sign them for the same kind
00:51of deal Josh Stone got, I'd say that's probably the target.
00:54That's probably what you want to do. And this is kind of right in line with that.
00:58I mean, it's a little bit more money. It's, you know, it's an extra year. It's whatever.
01:02But to me, this is exactly the kind of deal that you're looking for for him because, you know, you
01:07can be a pessimist if you want to and see, like, wow, 43 points, blah, blah, blah.
01:13You know, this guy hasn't scored yet, blah, blah, blah. Like, you can do all that negative Nelly stuff that
01:18you want to.
01:19And you can have a good time with that if that's what your kick is.
01:22But, like, this would be a solid, this is an ideal contract for him because I think the offense, I
01:28mean, we saw it in the playoffs, the offense is coming.
01:30And we see what he brings outside of, you know, generating chances, being a pest, doing all that stuff.
01:38We've seen what else he can do, all the kind of tangible, intangible, you know, driving other teams crazy stuff.
01:46That is a, that has a lot of value.
01:48And, you know, it was, the comparison I started thinking of with Benson during the playoffs, and I was like,
01:57I got to pump the brakes on it because it's way too high of an expectation.
02:00But you saw some of the Marchand stuff coming, coming through last season, playing shorthanded, being very effective shorthanded, being
02:09able to generate offense shorthanded.
02:11And then also being dynamite, five-on-five, driving play, creating opportunities for whatever line he was on.
02:18All of that stuff smacked of what Marchand was when he started breaking through in Boston.
02:23And, you know, you don't want to set that expectation for a guy because Marchand's an incredible player.
02:28Everybody hates him, but, like, the guy is awesome.
02:31Sorry to say to everybody who hates him, the guy's incredible.
02:35But, Benson, if that's the plane that he's on, boy, oh, boy.
02:40I mean, you do seven for seven every day, and you don't even think about it.
02:43And, Zach, honestly, you say, yeah, no, I'm in.
02:47Let's do it.
02:47Yeah, you know, the playoffs, there's a lot to unpack here.
02:51The playoffs really mattered to this.
02:53I think Mike and I would have talked about him as an RFA going, you know, before the playoffs happened.
03:01And I probably said, you know, bridge deal.
03:05I'm not sure where the offense is going to be.
03:07And maybe because of that, his side would agree to a bridge deal because, you know, we don't know really
03:12what if I become a 35 to 40 goal scorer or something for you.
03:18And, you know, I'm probably going to be taking way less than that right now because, like you said, the
03:23points haven't really been there yet.
03:24But the playoffs, I think, showed you how effective his style can be and the value in having – I
03:34mean, the Sabres have had players on their team that the opposing fan bases hated.
03:38But mostly we're talking about tough guys, right?
03:42Like Rob Ray, Barnaby even, you know, with the tooth and the – you know, Rob with the no jersey
03:48and all this.
03:49There's guys.
03:50But we – I don't know – I cannot think of a time when they had a guy that was
03:56an important offensive player.
03:58No offense to Barnaby.
04:00He had some decent scoring years.
04:03But somebody that's a top-line type player that can play on your power play that also antagonizes and makes
04:12everyone on the other team want to spear him in the nuts.
04:14Like, I don't know when the Sabres ever have that guy and they've got one.
04:20Yeah.
04:20And, I mean, there were times in recent history where they added a guy where they thought they were going
04:28to get something like that.
04:29You know, I think of – I think of like a guy like Steve Ott.
04:32Steve Ott was kind of like that kind of player.
04:34And you're thinking – you know, you're thinking big picture with somebody like that where it's like, oh, man, a
04:39playoff guy, he'll be a pain in the butt.
04:40He'll be awesome.
04:41This will be great.
04:42And, you know, obviously none of that stuff worked out.
04:45You know, bad era of the franchise.
04:47But, like, that sort of guy was kind of like what he was.
04:53And in Vincent's case, like, the playoffs were just an awakening for him and for everybody else with this franchise
05:01to say, like, oh, this is what he's going to be.
05:04Like, because you can watch all the junior highlights.
05:06You can see him score a ton.
05:07You can see him kind of be a pain, you know, in junior hockey where it's like, okay, everybody's scrapping
05:13and fighting in junior hockey.
05:14Like, you know, big deal.
05:16But from day one, he was driving everybody crazy in the NHL.
05:21I mean, you know, we saw all like the kind of crappy penalties.
05:24He started getting – he was getting reputation penalties, you know, 20 games into his career.
05:28And we were just kind of like, what the heck?
05:29What is going on?
05:30Why is this guy, you know, getting flagged for everything here?
05:33This is really stupid.
05:35And now it's like he's earned that, and now he doesn't get called for that stuff anymore, and he does
05:41it even more.
05:41So it's – I don't know.
05:43Maybe that's just a weird kind of like hockey hazing for officials to be like, hey, buddy, you're not going
05:48to do that here until you prove yourself.
05:50And then, okay, we'll let you get away with it.
05:52But, I mean, for a guy like him, though, I mean, seven for seven.
05:57I mean, yeah, your eyes can kind of go like, whoa, that's a lot of money here.
06:01Like, he's in Tage territory with that kind of money.
06:04But also, I don't know, it's a different financial landscape now.
06:10Yeah, if Tage Thompson is signing a contract this summer, he's getting $12 million a year.
06:16Easily.
06:17Right.
06:17I mean, so –
06:18Easily.
06:18Right.
06:18It's just a different world now.
06:20Right.
06:20Yeah.
06:21But, I mean, it's – you know, this is a different setup than I think of, you know, and I
06:26keep circling back to this because we've been talking about him a lot the last year.
06:30But when Alex Tuck got his extension in Vegas, you know, they threw him the extension that he's – you
06:36know, that he's just coming off of now.
06:37Now, Adam, when he was really young and he hadn't really proven himself yet, and, you know, they saw what
06:42was coming, but they're like, hey, let's get him locked in quick.
06:44Right, right.
06:45And we'll get this taken care of.
06:47And Alex was like, yeah, let's do it.
06:49And then two years into it, he was like, oh, no, what have I done?
06:51You know, I'm a 30-goal-a-year guy now.
06:54I'm a – you know, I'm a guy who should be making $7, $8, $9 million a year, and instead
06:58I'm making – you know, I'm just making under $5.
07:01Which, you know, I don't know, at 22, 23 years old, somebody throws me, you know, a $36 million contract.
07:06I'm saying yes.
07:08So, I get it.
07:09But in this case with Benson, I mean, you're talking about, you know, if you bridge him, you're taking a
07:14big chance.
07:14Because if you go two years with him for – you know, say you go two for 12, which is
07:19still juicy, you're talking about, well, what am I paying him after two years?
07:23Am I paying him – am I paying him the same or am I paying him $10?
07:26You know, and you don't want to be paying him $10.
07:27Right.
07:28Yeah, it's good to be proactive.
07:30I mean, of course, the downside is that, you know, the player doesn't continue developing and never gets the scoring
07:35touch we think is coming.
07:37And, you know, you're on the hook.
07:39But I think it makes a ton of sense.
07:42Joe Yurden from Bleacher Report on the Western Hotline with us here on WGR.
07:47You mentioned Tuck.
07:48Is there – is there any validity to Tuck?
07:54Like, you mentioned the previous contract.
07:55He's been a bargain here the entire time he's been a Sabre.
07:58And I guess we never really cared that much until this year when they got good.
08:02And then we were faced with the specter of him leaving for nothing because, you know, he's maybe priced himself
08:08out.
08:08Like, is there – should the Sabres make that up to him by giving him what he wants?
08:13Like, is there any room for that kind of sentimentality in this to you?
08:19I don't know.
08:21There's the heart – there's what the heart wants and what the head wants.
08:23And what the heart wants says yes.
08:25Like, yeah, what he's done for the – you know, what he's gone through, what he's put up for the
08:31franchise,
08:31what he's done to help, you know, bring this team together and get them into the postseason.
08:35And what he's been as a player here.
08:37He's a guy that's worth that money.
08:41Unfortunately, you're looking at a situation where the Sabres have just under $14 million in cap space.
08:47And if you want to bring him back, you're talking about $10 million to $11 million of that going to
08:55him.
08:55And then if you're signing Benson for seven for seven, well, there goes all that money.
09:00And it's hard.
09:04It's really hard.
09:05And, you know, part of me wondered if there was some – you know, because I think, you know, Alex
09:11is going to go to July 1st.
09:12He's going to see what's out there unless somebody, you know, makes a deal that requires rights and then sign
09:15him on the spot.
09:16But where if he goes to July 1st, sees what's out there, sees what teams are offering, and then if
09:22the market isn't to his liking, he says,
09:23you know what, forget it, let's go back to Buffalo, let's just, you know, we'll take what the offer is.
09:30It's not to say comfortable, but, like, this is what we know.
09:34And if I want to end my career as a Sabre, I can do that.
09:37But, I don't know, the family considerations, you know, I mean, his wife's from Vancouver, you know, been away from
09:44their family.
09:45She's been away from her family since, you know, since they've been together.
09:47So, like, that's hard.
09:49You know, Tuck's family knows all about hockey life.
09:52They've been in hockey since, you know, since he was, you know, a kid.
09:56So, like, they're used to that.
09:58But, like, there's a lot of stuff to consider.
10:01There's so much stuff to consider in his shoes.
10:04And being 30 years old, there's a lot for teams to consider as well because, you know, even though he's
10:09been so good, you wonder,
10:11okay, 30 is like that kind of artificial cliff line where you don't know what a player is going to
10:17be after that.
10:18Tuck could be great until he's 39.
10:20He could be great until he's 32.
10:22And if you're signing him up and you're going seven, eight years with him, you better hope he's great until
10:27he's 39 because you're paying him a ton of money to do it.
10:30But it's really hard from Buffalo's perspective.
10:34And I just keep going back to how Alex really seemed to bite his tongue in talking about the negotiating
10:49with Kevin Adams last summer where he just, you know, things didn't work.
10:54And, you know, they weren't able to get something out.
10:56You could just tell Alex was so frustrated looking back on that.
10:59And, you know, it's when you can feel that come through and a guy who's trying to bite his tongue
11:05on it, that's really tough.
11:06Yeah.
11:07Yeah.
11:07I hear you there.
11:09And I bet you probably felt that being in the room present when he was talking because sometimes it makes
11:15a difference to be in the room.
11:17Well, from Tuck, if we sort of live with the premise that he's leaving, which is where I think we
11:23should be living, who knows?
11:24Maybe something happens at the 11th hour.
11:27And like you said, it's not to his liking.
11:29And he comes back here and maybe they make a piece here.
11:32But if he leaves, that brings us to yesterday's story, which was Bowen Byram perhaps being on the trade market.
11:40I think absolutely that is a piece that you're trying to replace Alex Tuck with, I think.
11:46I mean, I suppose you could be shopping Bowen Byram in the effort to go trade for Connor Hellebuck.
11:52And that has nothing to do with replacing Alex Tuck.
11:54But my guess is you're trying to put a package together to get a player that you think can replace
12:00Alex Tuck.
12:01How about just the idea of moving Byram for that?
12:04Because, Joe, I probably use this phrasing with you.
12:08I've used it many, many times.
12:11I thought those 4D on this team were their superpower.
12:16Kekalainen sounded the same when the season ended.
12:18They drive so much of what they do.
12:20So, breaking that up is going to be hard to swallow.
12:24But I think they may have to if they want to suitably replace Tuck with a veteran.
12:29What are your thoughts on Byram?
12:33Yeah, they're in a tough spot.
12:35And it was kind of funny when Bow said, you know, I thought by signing my deal last summer I
12:42wouldn't have to be talking about this.
12:44And I'm like, buddy, you signed a two-year deal that walks you to free agency.
12:47I don't know who told you this was going to be easier.
12:50Right.
12:53You were going to be talking about this next summer.
12:55I was like, you've got a vacation for 12 months, pal.
12:58Like, that's what you got.
12:58But it's another tough spot where I think, you know, maybe you wait it out and get to the cap
13:08jump next year.
13:10And you say, like, okay, well, if we're not trading Byram, how much can we get him for?
13:15And there is a big problem with that, though.
13:18Darren Ferris is his agent.
13:19We're very familiar with Darren Ferris by this point here in Buffalo.
13:22And, you know, he's had some pretty high-profile clients here in the past.
13:26And they want to go to free agency.
13:27Like, that's just what it is unless you completely blow the doors off.
13:30And even then, I think Darren would be smart enough to say, well, if they're going to give us this
13:35now, what do we got coming to us in the offseason?
13:38Hang on a second.
13:39But I think Jarmo's in a spot where you've got to be proactive in that case because if you've got
13:45a top-four defenseman like Byram and you know he's going to go to July 1st, no matter what offer
13:51you make him, no matter what's coming, no matter what you do, if you think he's going to – and
13:57that opens the door for him to just walk for – you know, you don't get anything back for him.
14:01You've got to look around.
14:03Oh, yeah.
14:03You have to look around.
14:05And now is the time to do it because this is your window to get things in line and to
14:11get things straightened out so that you can figure that out.
14:14I think, you know, if Byram's your window into getting somebody to replace Tuck, then I think you try to
14:20figure that out.
14:20If it's, you know, if it's Matthew Knize, if it's Jerry McCann, you know, if it's somebody like that where
14:25you can go out and find somebody that's Tuck-like and they cost, you know, the same or a fraction
14:31of what Alex costs, great, awesome.
14:33Like, I think you figure that out and you get that done.
14:36And then you figure out the defense on the other side of it and try to go from there.
14:41Because I know the temptation to run it back with the same group and just say, okay, boys, just go
14:45get them again is very high because they're so good.
14:49But you've got to think about – as much as it stinks, you've got to think about the distant future,
14:53not just next season, but you've got to think two years down the road.
14:56Because you're thinking, okay, well, if we just say, screw it, we're just going to do this with Byram.
15:01We'll run it back next year and see how we go.
15:03Great.
15:03What do you do in two years when he's gone?
15:06For nothing.
15:06Yeah, right.
15:07Who are you adding?
15:08Like, how are you figuring that out from there?
15:09And it's the same with Tuck.
15:11Like, if Tuck walks for nothing, all right, how are you replacing him?
15:14You could try to jam all the kids into the lineup and say, all right, well, your Euclid can take
15:17over.
15:18Well, can he?
15:18I don't know.
15:19Is he going to be able to play?
15:20Maybe.
15:20I don't know.
15:21Can Zach Benson's offense step up for that?
15:23Can Consta Hellenis' offense jump into that role?
15:26You're talking about a team that was already really young and saying, like, well, what if we get younger and
15:29try to go even further in the playoffs?
15:32Yeah, that doesn't seem – that's not usually how it works.
15:36Anything can work, but that's usually – you're a cup contender.
15:40You're not trying to get younger.
15:41You're trying to get more veterans usually, especially to replace veterans like Tuck.
15:46You know, the thing about Byram, I felt kind of like an idiot when I saw the reporting that the
15:52Sabres are taking calls on him
15:54or might be interested in moving him because I know how Jarmo sounded at the end of the year.
16:00Like, he sounded as eager to re-sign Byram to a big extension as he did Benson.
16:04But, like, I feel like we were all just so crushed by the loss, I think, still, and just not
16:11really seeing the whole playing field.
16:13If you were going to pay Byram somewhere between what Power and Darlene are getting paid, let's say, that's got
16:20to be his ballpark,
16:22you would then have three defensemen under contract in the top 25 in annual average value in the league.
16:30And there's not a team in the league that exists that's doing that.
16:34So, like, asset management-wise, I think there was certainly room to wonder, is that a good idea, signing him?
16:42Then there's the Byram piece, right?
16:44I mean, a lot of what people are piecing together now is that he's sort of – he's blocked here.
16:51He can't be number one.
16:52He's not even on the top pair.
16:54He's certainly not on the number one power play, and that's not changing.
16:58So, you know, of course he wants to go somewhere where he can do all that and get paid $12
17:03million a year to do it.
17:04I mean, I totally get it.
17:05So, from his standpoint, it really makes sense.
17:08And I think I just sort of missed all that when the season ended and they talked about wanting to
17:13extend him.
17:14And there's a little bit of, like, self-negotiation that Byram's got to do.
17:19Because one of the things that he said at the end of the season was, you know, I don't want
17:23to lose.
17:23You know, I don't want to lose anymore.
17:24I'm done losing.
17:25Get me on a winning team.
17:26I'm on a winning team now, so this is good.
17:28And it's like, yeah, that's correct.
17:31You know, you're on a winning team.
17:34Things are good.
17:35But it's also like, well, all right, that's fine.
17:37But you're not supplanting Darlene as the number one power play guy.
17:39Not happening.
17:41It took him three quarters of the season to supplant power as the number two power play guy.
17:46Which, you know, coaching choice, like fine, like whatever.
17:50But, like, you know, if you're going to come in at, like, $10 million a year and you're going to
17:56do that, it's like, well, you've got to be able to, if you're spending, to me, if you're spending $10
18:02million a year on a guy, he's got to be a number one-esque power play guy.
18:06And Darlene's that guy.
18:08And, you know, if you're Byron, if you don't want to lose anymore, great.
18:11Like, you can go to another team, but, like, do they have the money to pay you?
18:16You can go to a team that might be on the brink of being a big-time winner, which is
18:21possible, that's got money to spend.
18:23But, you know, you've got to kind of wait a year or force a trade to that team and then
18:26kind of go from there.
18:27But it's an awkward spot for him.
18:31It's definitely an awkward spot for Buffalo because they want to, you know, they want to, I'm sure, in an
18:37ideal world, they want to keep everything the same on the back end because that's, because they're so good and
18:42they're just, it works just easily.
18:44But it's so difficult.
18:45It's so difficult to try to get this done when you're kind of, they're not tight to the cap, but
18:50they are.
18:51And, you know, and you're thinking down the road and you want to get all this stuff squared away.
18:56And it's just, you've got to decide, like, which things are we going to pay for, which things are we
19:00not going to pay for.
19:01And, you know, unfortunately, some of those decisions have to be made right now because what you do now is
19:06going to affect what happens next year and the years after.
19:09Joe, we've got less than a minute here.
19:11Is there a big goalie trade out there for you?
19:14Do you like the Hellebuck idea?
19:18I like it.
19:18I like it in theory.
19:20I don't know if I like what it would take to make that happen because I think what it would
19:25take to make it happen are a lot of guys that I think are going to be big time players
19:30in the NHL, whether it's here or it's not.
19:33But, I mean, Hellebuck's an unbelievable player and an incredible competitor.
19:38I think it would be awesome.
19:40It would be awesome to have in whatever team, certainly here in Buffalo.
19:44But giving up, man, Mirka, maybe Hellenus.
19:50You know, I don't care about giving up picks at this point.
19:52Like, whatever.
19:52Just, you know, take the pick.
19:53I don't know.
19:54It's fine.
19:55Like, giving up guys that might be here in a year or two that you might need to replace guys
19:59that might be leaving in a year or two.
20:00So, that's really tough.
20:04That's really difficult.
20:05And I don't know if Buffalo should be thinking like that now.
20:10Although, if they think, like, we can win it next year, if we can win the Cup next year, I
20:14think you do whatever you can to make it happen, honestly.
20:18Joe, I appreciate you skipping the first, I don't know, 15 minutes or so of the second half.
20:24Jeff, you've not missed any goals in case you can't see a TV in your quiet spot outside the Banshee.
20:30But go enjoy the rest of the soccer.
20:32Thanks for the time.
20:33And maybe we'll visit again later in the summer.
20:36I appreciate it, Bulldog.
20:37Thanks so much for having me.
20:38That's our dude, Joe Yurden from Bleacher Report on the Sabres.
20:42Team USA continues to lead.
20:45Team USA continues to lead.
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