- il y a 2 jours
In this exclusive interview, Dana Protsyshak—founder of Vertigo and the LA Vertical Drama Market—shares her insights on the rapid growth of the vertical drama industry. From launching the first major North American vertical drama market to discussing Hollywood's increasing interest, emerging trends, female creators, AI, content demand, and the future of short-form storytelling, Dana offers a behind-the-scenes look at one of entertainment's fastest-growing sectors. Discover why she believes vertical dramas are no longer a trend, but a lasting force in global entertainment. Interview by WENWEN HAN.
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00:00Could you briefly introduce yourself, your name, and your role in the industry?
00:04Hi everyone, my name is Dana Proteshak.
00:06I am founder of Vertigo and LA Vertigo Drama Market.
00:12I'm writer, producer, director, and founder of events in short drama space.
00:19I know I asked this question last time, but I still want to ask the same question.
00:23How would you define short dramas, and what do you think is their essence?
00:27I would still define short drama as a feature film, which is chopped into 50-80 episodes of one-two
00:38minute each,
00:39which have a lot of cliffhangers and hooks, and a very fast pace to keep viewers engaged.
00:47The funny thing is that the name for this type of content is not established.
00:52There are different names people call it.
00:54In the U.S., it's mainly verticals.
00:56I know in Asia and Europe, it's short drama, microdrama.
01:01Some people even call them words.
01:03So I think that at this moment, we don't have a specific term for this type of content,
01:08or it's just very different depending on geography.
01:11And what do you think is their essence?
01:14I think it's fast-paced storytelling.
01:17That's the root of short dramas.
01:19Congrats for this year's first edition of Vertigo in Los Angeles.
01:23Could you give us a brief introduction to the event, how it started, what it presents,
01:29and its role in shaping LA short drama and the whole North American short drama market?
01:34So this September, I hosted the first ever LA Vertigo drama market.
01:38That's the way we called it.
01:40It was hosted by Vertigo, and basically, this is my company.
01:44This was the first industry event for verticals, and my idea for this event was to make it as
01:53cons for the market, but for verticals.
01:55And I felt that there is a lack of industry events in this niche.
02:02So I had this idea last November.
02:05At first, I ditched it, because for me, it was like too big of a thing at that time.
02:11And I got back to it in June.
02:15Before June, I started hosting vertical Vertigo mixers monthly, where we were gathering people
02:21who work in verticals, and I saw that there is a demand for this kind of events in the industry.
02:29So that's how the idea was born.
02:33We wanted to shape the industry around verticals.
02:36We wanted to build community for people who work in verticals, and also we wanted to introduce
02:41verticals to Hollywood, because there is a huge emerging interest from Hollywood established
02:47producers to verticals, and all of that we combined into vertical drama market, and we had
02:55certain panel discussions.
02:57We had a separate vertical story lab, where we got writers from platforms who were teaching
03:05masterclasses for everyone who is interested in vertical screenwriting.
03:10We did pitch competition.
03:12It was the first ever event where people could pitch their vertical stories in front of executives,
03:19and actually to the producers who can make them happen.
03:23And also we had some VIP networking events for producers and creators, and daily happy hour events.
03:30And I feel the main goal was established.
03:35We have a community of people who work in verticals right now,
03:38and it was one of the most popular feedback I got, that people were able to actually meet
03:46someone in person, like whom they worked with, or who they just like texted on like LinkedIn
03:51or Facebook.
03:52So I think like the most powerful outcome of the market was like this community we create.
03:57And also like about other outcomes, it feels that people realize that it's here.
04:04My verticals are here, they're not going anywhere.
04:07And as they learned more about this industry, and they are more interested into trying it,
04:15because right now they actually know how to try it.
04:18And they've listened to a lot of people who already walked down this path.
04:23So they feel inspired by them.
04:25During the event, what the main topics everyone discussed?
04:29We had 13 panel discussions.
04:31It was a lot.
04:33And the way we divided them, it was the first day, it was more like introductory.
04:38We were talking about what verticals are, how to get into them, like what does it mean for
04:44Hollywood, and what are the rules of verticals.
04:47Day two, we focused more on production, like what it means to produce NLA, what it means to
04:52produce verticals abroad.
04:54Casting, directing intimacy, stunts, more like nuances for production.
04:58And on day three, we're talking about challenges, about AI, about future of vertical landscape,
05:04and all these things.
05:06So it's hard to outline like exactly like one topic, I would say that we did a crash course
05:12on verticals from people who have only heard this term to basically knowing, to discussing
05:19where it's all going forward.
05:22But if I would like to pick one, I would say that the most common question everyone was
05:29asking about elevated vertical content, that's something that like everyone was like, okay,
05:34we have verticals right now.
05:36They're saying, what do you think of elevated vertical content?
05:39I want to create vertical elevated content, like how do I get started?
05:43I think that was like the most common question from creators.
05:47What do you mean by elevated?
05:48Like the quality is not very good right now?
05:50Well, yes, so it's not even like, I feel like the quality is way better than it was
05:54in 2023, but at least there is still a lot of room for growth, especially writers and
05:59people who are just getting to the field, they want to tell a bit smarter stories, if
06:06we can call them that, different plots, explore other genres, even like in romance, there is
06:14still a lot of tropes that we haven't explored yet.
06:17So more about expanding the scope of topics and also making them more cinematic.
06:24Any ideas or direction of the genres everyone discussed?
06:28So a lot of people are curious whether horror will work, because it's very popular genre in
06:34the US and everyone is curious whether they can adapt them into verticals.
06:39Yeah, mainly horrors and true crime.
06:41Also, some people were wondering whether we can engage more male audience to watch verticals.
06:49But I feel like right now, the trend is like, not really there.
06:53Like, in May, everyone was obsessed about let's create a vertical that men will watch.
07:01Right now, I think that it's more about introducing verticals to other genres than to different
07:06audiences.
07:07If male audience watch verticals, what kind of content do they like?
07:12I think that's why the horror is coming into picture.
07:15Horror, sci-fi, also like some LGBTQ series.
07:20But some people just don't think that men audience will watch it.
07:25So they just prefer to concentrate on expanding romance.
07:29From the industry perspective, what new trends and insights have you observed in general?
07:36I think there is a huge trend right now just to get into vertical space, especially after
07:42Fox announced that they're investing in my drama, Holy Water.
07:47Everyone is like, OK, Hollywood is here.
07:49We need to get in.
07:50That's probably the biggest trend I see right now.
07:53As trends, I can tell that people are hungry for stories because we have a lot of emerging
08:00platforms right now and everyone needs content.
08:04So if you have a story, you're winning.
08:08And if you have like a story that has already been produced on other platforms, like the
08:13platforms who have stories are also winning because there is a battle of content, as we
08:19can call it right now.
08:21So you mean the local platforms, the US platforms or?
08:24No, I mean like if like a platform like is emerging right now, they need content.
08:29So there are two ways that they can get content.
08:32They can license it.
08:33So like all platforms who have already have like the libraries, they can basically monetize
08:40them better.
08:41They can like sell them exclusively and non-exclusively to emerging platforms and make some profits on
08:46it.
08:47And also creators who have original stories, they have better chances into selling their stories
08:54because those platforms which are emerging, they are more open to having new stories.
09:01They don't have in-house writer's team as well-established platforms have.
09:06So there is like a window of opportunities for creators who have IP right now.
09:12The platforms you mentioned about there or most of them are US platforms, right?
09:17US and Europe.
09:18Yeah.
09:18What are their next steps or plans for the area market and your own projects going forward?
09:24So right now, a slate of original verticals, which we are talking to different platforms
09:30about writing and producing them.
09:33Also, we are trying to establish a writer's room where we can write script in a more efficient
09:39way and later possibly producing them.
09:44And also we are in early development stages of our own platform.
09:48So all hands on deck in the vertical space.
09:53Were there any female creators involved in this year's market?
09:56Yeah.
09:57I feel there were a lot of women creators there.
10:01We have a director's panel where we had a lot of women.
10:05Basically, I feel like every of our platforms, they have at least one or two women.
10:09To be honest, I feel that this media is for women because the fans who came and reviewers
10:17who came to our event, we had like a special fan event as well, a fan panel as well.
10:22They were all female.
10:24So we are creating the content for females.
10:27So who is better suited to produce and make this kind of content than women?
10:33From that perspective, do you think short drama or verticals, this format, open up doors,
10:39more opportunities for female creators in the industry?
10:42Yeah, definitely.
10:42I can tell that a lot of clients, they want female directors because they feel that women
10:48have a better eye to directing romance and that they know better what can catch other
10:55women's eye.
10:56That's one thing.
10:57And also, if you look at the data, the demographics, female audience is still the main target audience
11:04for verticals.
11:05So the majority of platforms, they want female directors, female writers, producers, not so
11:13often, but directors and writers, yes, 100%.
11:17If there is a new writer, like from film or novel background, or even not from this background,
11:25want to get into verticals, what's your suggestion based on that?
11:28I would suggest they, first of all, study the format, that they watch a couple of verticals
11:35from top platforms, just to get acquainted with what this genre is about, and then like
11:43be open-minded about that it's not a feature script, it's a vertical script.
11:49I love that sometimes some scripts have even known that this is a vertical script, and some
11:54things may not make sense, so they should be aware of that.
11:59They should write a spec, probably, and then try to show it to some people, producers who
12:05already work in verticals, and try to get in as a staff writer.
12:10But if you have, again, if you have your own story, if you think after watching verticals
12:16that it can make a good vertical, write the whole script and try to pitch it to producers,
12:21because right now they are more open to it than ever before.
12:26There's a golden rush in the whole U.S. over Los Angeles, right?
12:31Again, like I feel that media has been following verticals pretty closely, like last few months,
12:38like Anne Clare, Deadline, Washington Post, and people with money, Hollywood-established
12:45producers, they started noticing it, and they want to get in.
12:49So, like, one year ago, everyone was skeptical about verticals.
12:54They thought that it's going to go exactly as Quibi, and like nothing will work.
13:00Six months ago, they were, okay, like, maybe it's coming, it's going somewhere, maybe it's
13:05not.
13:05Right now, after all those articles, everyone wants in.
13:09So, in LA, they are pitching tax credits for verticals, because that was, like, the main
13:17reason that a lot of big productions left LA, because there is lack of tax incentives to
13:24shoot here, and locations are expensive, permits are expensive.
13:28A lot of verticals right now shooting in Atlanta, but it was, like, for the last year.
13:36Right now, also, they are starting to shoot verticals in Chicago, and I was very surprised
13:42with that.
13:42And I know that they're expanding to Texas, Kentucky, Kansas.
13:49There's, like, a whole studio emerging there.
13:53So, it's, like, everyone who has resources, who has, like, locations, production teams, they
14:02are trying to get into the vertical space.
14:05So, that is, like, gold rush.
14:08And right now, with big players like Fox and probably Disney in this space, people expect
14:15budgets to get higher.
14:17And this is, like, a big expectation.
14:20I don't think it's happening, but we'll see.
14:24I wouldn't surprise that it happened in other places, because in China, it's not happening
14:29in the first-tail cities.
14:31They're actually in the second-tail cities, just like Atlanta.
14:35Atlanta has tax credits, and they also have a lot of crews, and they have a lot of studios.
14:40So, Atlanta works in Atlanta for one vertical as well.
14:44It's not only in terms of productions that are going into this, also the apps which are emerging.
14:51Again, like, it's a competition, especially in terms of content, because they don't have
14:57content, they don't usually have money.
14:59And we will have, in the, like, first six months of 2026, we'll have more than 10 apps
15:06with very similar content, I guess.
15:09I still think that in the U.S., people are used to streaming, and watching short dramas
15:16on their phones is more expensive.
15:18And right now, we have, like, top studios who want to get into verticals, like Netflix just
15:24announced that they will be doing verticals as well.
15:27So, if they will be able to watch verticals from big streamers, even more apps will go down.
15:33I think the streamer have more resources, and have bigger content libraries, and their original
15:41IPs that they can reuse.
15:44And the thing is that, like, emerging apps, they aren't backed by, like, they are backed
15:49only by, like, venture capitalists.
15:52And, like, by private investors, they're not backed by big players.
15:57We'll see how it goes.
15:58But, to be honest, I feel like it's a really fascinating time, because we are able to explore,
16:04like, the new market.
16:06Because most of the vertical platforms in China are backed by web novel companies, 90% from
16:12web novel background.
16:14Even in Ukraine, like, MyDrama and DramaShorts, they also have their libraries.
16:20And, in the U.S., I feel like those apps are merging from specific producers.
16:27They may have, like, their own IPs in terms of some films that they produce.
16:31But they are, like, in terms of quantity, it's way smaller than, like, proper web novel library.
16:38Is there any book IP over those companies?
16:44It's Wattpad, there's Royal Road.
16:46But I don't hear that they are getting into vertical space.
16:52I know that, real short, they licensed some of Wattpad authors.
16:58Right now, I guess they just released Bound by Honor, which was based on a novel from Cora Reilly.
17:06What about MCN or a film company?
17:09Are they getting into verticals?
17:10Like, I haven't heard that they are getting into them.
17:13Maybe, like, some platforms, they want to stay under radar, because a lot of, like, companies who announce that they
17:19are launching, I guess, it's more like a marketing move to attract more investments.
17:25But because, like, they haven't proper launched, except maybe, like, Gamma.
17:32But, yeah, like, I think a lot of them may just prefer to stay in the shadows for now.
17:37What I see from the top Chinese platforms, 80% from web novel backgrounds.
17:42And the others, they used to do the ad buying for web novels.
17:46And there are some MCN companies, and there's one game company.
17:50That's it.
17:51I think, like, even based on our previous conversations, I feel that, like, in China, it's coming more from the
17:56content side.
17:57From IP side and from gaming.
18:00And from a little bit of ads, which you just mentioned.
18:03But in the US, it's like, Hollywood wants to get in.
18:06So, this is, like, basically established filmmakers who work in different roles on film and TV productions.
18:15And now they want to get into vertical space.
18:18But no, it's not, like, content companies, no gaming companies, no ads.
18:24It's purely filmmaking, which is trying to get into vertical.
18:29I think financing can be getting closer to vertical than any other.
18:34And that's why I feel like where is the biggest difference between, like, US approach and Chinese approach to verticals
18:40is that Chinese approach is more content-based.
18:43It's more, like, not, like, UGC content, but closer to content.
18:47And here, it's more, like, we are making a movie.
18:51We are making a feature.
18:52Like, even, like, the way I described it to you, it's, like, a feature chopped into episodes.
18:56So, I think it's more, like, filmmaking perspective.
18:59More, like, indie filmmaking, and we are making a movie, but in a bit different format.
19:04To be honest, I feel like...
19:05I think those Chinese platforms pick the wrong strategy.
19:09It used to be IAP in-app purchase, which means they need to attract the viewer's attention.
19:17Because it's very competitive, because so many platforms, and there are so many creative ads in the whole market.
19:23So, they have to be severe, like, make people angry, a lot of violence, those kind of thing.
19:29So, they think this work in China.
19:32So, I think when they export overseas, they use the same strategy.
19:36But I think they used the wrong one.
19:38After I'm talking to a lot of creators from the US market, they don't like those violence.
19:44And I don't like those shows as well.
19:45Maybe they are using not the best strategy, but also a lot of people are raising the questions.
19:54Like, we don't want that much abuse in verticals and so on.
19:59But I feel that those companies are very data-driven.
20:02So, they look at the data.
20:04And, like, maybe some people, they don't want to admit that they still watch those shows.
20:10You know, because the data, like, it doesn't lie.
20:14And that's, like, why the companies are pursuing this strategy, mainly.
20:19But also, I feel that the biggest problem right now is retention.
20:26Because, like, even, like, the way you described it, the strategy was just to bring people on your platform, right?
20:32Like, make them watch.
20:33Not, like, finish watching, but, like, just watch at least, like, one second, right?
20:38So, they were putting a lot of money into marketing, and that's why it's very expensive to, like, for new
20:48productions, for new platforms to compete.
20:52It's because you need to put almost, like, the same amount of money into marketing as you do in production.
20:57More money in the marketing.
20:59In China, 80% to 90% of money is spent on ad buying.
21:03Probably makes sense, because in this stage, they need to attract as many viewers as possible.
21:09So, maybe they will have a stronger way.
21:12Like, maybe some abuse or violence, creative ads to attract the audience to the ad first.
21:19Maybe in the second stage, they will change their strategy into a more slow pacing and, like, good storytelling.
21:25I would say that right now, I don't see that many, like, abuse scenes in the verticals here.
21:33Like, at least in promotion scenes.
21:35But I would say there is a lot more intimacy scenes.
21:39I think it's working more in the U.S., like, in all promotions, in, like, whatever ads you see.
21:46It's mainly intimacy scenes.
21:48Intimacy, I think it's that's the ultimate thing to attract female audience.
21:53I can share a little bit about the upcoming market, because we are already in early preparations.
22:00So, we wanted to do it once per year.
22:05But because the industry is so fast-paced, we decided that we need to do it in May.
22:10Because by September, we'll have a completely different industry.
22:13And we want to take, like, the best part.
22:18We want to take panel discussions, story lab.
22:21But we also want to do masterclasses on other topics.
22:25Because I feel that people need more, like, case study.
22:29Though we will focus more on practical things.
22:32On, like, actual production cases on this market.
22:36And it will be more practical than, like, the previous one.
22:42And we'll also have some beach competitions, as we did this year.
22:46But we will also have awards.
22:49Because we don't have any awards, proper awards, for creators who stand behind all those shows.
22:58They aren't assessed from a professional standpoint.
23:01And if you want to make it as a proper industry, and we definitely want it, we need to have
23:07awards as well.
23:08Do you think it would be a vertical INDB?
23:11Not at the moment.
23:13I would say that Instagram and reviewers who watch verticals and publish their reviews and introduce these actors, they are
23:21kind of vertical INDB.
23:23I'm curious about AI and technology.
23:26How does it work in verticals in China right now?
23:29Because in the U.S., they even pass the laws that AI can't substitute actors.
23:36Because everyone is afraid that AI will take their jobs.
23:41But I'm curious about, like, what in China is there right now?
23:43AI is used in many ways.
23:45One, they tried for those Chinese shows.
23:48They tested to change the faces of Chinese into foreign faces.
23:52The test is not good because when they go to close-up, it's kind of the expression still kind of
23:59weird.
24:00So it's not very good.
24:01They also do some background, like AI-generated background in sci-fi and stuff.
24:08But not many are used.
24:10There is one trending right now.
24:12It's very hot this year.
24:13It's called AI motion comics.
24:16So a lot of investors, long streaming platforms and short-drammer vertical platforms are getting to this market.
24:24It's targeting the younger generation, like 20 years old, especially males.
24:30So there are some horror, sci-fi stories, those things.
24:33And it's easier to make by using AI.
24:37There are three types of ones.
24:39One is called full-scale AI motion graphics.
24:43That's just AI generation, the whole story.
24:45The second one is called narration.
24:48It's like an audiobook.
24:50But you have some images.
24:52So it's better than an audiobook because you can watch some movie images.
24:57And that's cheaper to make.
24:59The third one is called silly comics.
25:01So people read some funny comics, some silly stories.
25:06And that's cheap to make as well.
25:07So that's three type of story.
25:10They say that's the final piece of the whole short-drama industry.
25:14We begin with the middle-aged men from lower-tailed cities.
25:18And then expand it to women in lower-tailed cities.
25:23And then right now, they are targeting those women with higher education in the bigger cities.
25:29With some very good quality short dramas, as I mentioned.
25:33Slow-pacing, good quality stuff.
25:36They were trying to grab the audience from streaming platforms.
25:39And then the final poster is the young people.
25:44So 20 years old, young people.
25:45The first AI that you mentioned, when they just change people's faces.
25:50Like the ones they put instead, do they shoot them?
25:54Or is it just like they just grab somewhere?
25:56Like do they shoot real actors for that?
25:59Platforms, right?
25:59They got the final short-drama in their stock.
26:03They want to export into foreign markets.
26:07So they use AI to change their face.
26:10Okay, so it's not actors that you are changing.
26:13We are changing like the real face into AI.
26:17Yeah, from Chinese actor's face into some kind of foreign actor's face.
26:22They try that, but it's not very good.
26:23Because I know that there was a debate that, okay, like we have a short drama that we made.
26:28Can we shoot another actor in a studio just like one, like two or three hours?
26:35You just shoot close-ups with him, like different emotions, different reactions.
26:40And then like with AI, you put what you just shot into your short drama.
26:45And it works much better, but it's very unethical.
26:49And again, like right now, California has passed the law that you can't use like AI to substitute actors.
26:56Is it expensive to change faces?
26:59Well, it's less expensive than to shoot the whole short drama.
27:02No, we don't do this.
27:03Maybe because shooting a real actor is not very expensive.
27:07Because of the new law that you can't do it.
27:09But also is it like no actor here would give a consent to use like his mimics and everything to
27:19substitute him.
27:20So it's more like legal and ethical issues than a technical one.
27:24No, we don't use that.
27:25We don't either, but it's possible to do it.
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