- il y a 17 heures
In this interview, Wenwen Han speaks with UK casting director Liyanne Marie, one of the first casting directors in Britain to work in vertical drama. She discusses how she introduced actors and agents to the format, the differences between casting for traditional film and short drama, and why strong screen presence matters as much as acting ability.
Liyanne also explores the future of more diverse stories, stronger female representation, and the growing importance of social media, emotional intensity, and authentic performances in short-form storytelling.
Interview by Wenwen Han.
Liyanne also explores the future of more diverse stories, stronger female representation, and the growing importance of social media, emotional intensity, and authentic performances in short-form storytelling.
Interview by Wenwen Han.
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Art et designTranscription
00:00I am Leanne-Marie and I am a casting director here in the London UK but also cast you know
00:07internationally worldwide and I have now been casting for vertical dramas oh I think it's
00:14coming up to nearly two years it's definitely over like a year and a half or nearly two years
00:19so I did my first vertical drama casting yeah with with on-set Octopus production who brought
00:27me on as a casting director so I was the first UK casting director to actually get involved in
00:33casting for vertical dramas over here so it's been a really interesting journey for me how did you
00:40first get involved into casting your first vertical yeah so I'd because I cast here in the UK I cast
00:48for commercials so TV commercials films I've cast for theatre and other forms of media I'd worked on
00:57a film with a producer which is uh Ben Pengili from Onset Octopus who had we'd worked very well
01:03together on it on a feature film and he was casting for the first vertical drama here and reached out
01:11to me to to ask if I would come on board to cast um you know and I think at
01:17first I I kind of got
01:19involved and helped cast the leads um which was in the mafia lovers kind of um vertical drama and
01:27I think at first when I first got into it and I got the script I was a bit like
01:31I was a bit not even
01:33confused but I was a bit like oh what is this like this script I had to read it quite
01:38a few times to
01:40kind of really understand like the quick pace you know the the the the levels of intimacy in in the
01:47in the script um you know the BL vibes and I was like okay and this is a lot and
01:52I think as a cast
01:53and director any any kind of you know script or anything we get we have to take the time to
01:59kind
01:59of go through it read it understand it understand the characters so I think my first vertical drama
02:06I think I when I cast I was I was really trying to understand what does the client want um
02:13because
02:14that's that's you know as a casting director that's kind of what we we're here for with that kind of
02:19middle person pretty between between the production agency actors and to get the right person for
02:26the right roles um so it it took quite a lot of work um but then I just got really
02:31intrigued into
02:33what this format was um and then Mafia Lovers did so well and then we began to just I began
02:40to just be
02:40involved more and cast more back to back and then what I've been doing here is is I found when
02:47I first
02:47started casting them is um our society here didn't understand what they were and agents were
02:55particularly not interested in putting actors forward for these jobs um you know the the fees
03:03and stuff like that weren't great so I had a real struggle um in the beginning trying to get
03:09what I thought were good actors to be a part of of these these vertical you know drama productions
03:16how do you solve the problem I did have a struggle I think what it takes it's like anything
03:21anything that is change for us as as humans we we can kind of if we don't understand it we'll
03:29kind
03:29of want to just go we're either going to be in it or we're not um and I think for
03:34for here especially
03:36in the UK there wasn't the demand for it as such um so a lot of the actors you know
03:43didn't didn't know
03:44what a vertical drama was um so it meant that as I was casting I was educating so I was
03:51also you know
03:52speaking to agents uh giving like some workshops and talks to actors so they understood how to tape
03:58for the verticals because it's very different taping for a vertical drama than it is maybe like um I don't
04:05know a a feature or a piece of theatre there's some some some slight differences um so I think it
04:13just
04:13took a lot of communication communication a lot of trust as well and and this is the the thing
04:19with having sometimes a cast and director involved in these um we have a huge network we have such a
04:26huge network of talent that go from agents to you know people that we've street cast to models to
04:34you know actors graduates you know we have such a vast network so and people will trust us with what
04:42we're doing so it was it was something that took me a little bit of time to educate actors educate
04:49agents um I had a big meeting with spotlight here which is our massive casting database uh platform
04:55which you know didn't understand what what these kind of vertical drama formats were were they okay
05:02to put on the platform you know if we were going to put briefs out you know were they were
05:06they safe
05:06to do so so there was a lot of like skeptical pushback um at first and then what happened was
05:13I I came across a like a massive pool of actors who knew all about the vertical drama world and
05:22you know they they were keen so keen like you know my Instagram would go crazy or you know I'd
05:30get emails
05:30um and they knew more about this vertical drama world and they were keen to be involved they were
05:36keen to act in them and I was like I need to do more of my research now to say
05:41to to kind of
05:43really understand what this format is and how these actors that that have said like there's a massive
05:48pool of actors that know about it and want to be involved and they're doing them and I was like
05:52where are you and I just started to kind of reach out more and you know collate more of a
05:57database
05:58of actors that understood what the demand was and what you needed um as an actor to be involved in
06:05one
06:05of these because not it's not for everybody you know then it's not a career choice that every actor
06:10would also make oh why do you see that it's not a career for every actor I think because um
06:18and that's
06:18from them I think from for some actors they haven't understood what the benefits are for them as an actor
06:25so um they will maybe more want to focus on like tv commercials because the money is very good you
06:33know
06:33so the fees are quite high in vertical dramas that the fees are still not as as high as we'd
06:40like them
06:40to be for talent and that's obviously you know as a as the whole creative production I think it's under
06:47constraint constraint in whole from from crew to to cast as well um but I think they didn't didn't
06:54didn't understand you know I think the quality of some of them in the beginning they they didn't want
06:59to be seen on screen so but I feel like now the quality is just elevating you know the scripts
07:06are
07:06getting so much better um and I've just tried to encourage actors to get involved to tape to be seen
07:13because it's work and it's I feel like vertical dramas as well for actors they're like real master
07:19classes and I say that to them because I'm like you're doing like up to 13 pages of script today
07:25like this is this is amazing for your toolbox as an actor this can only be a benefit to you
07:31to work on set to work at this fast pace um you know to really build yourself as an as
07:38an actor
07:39and I think like when I cast the Pride and Prejudice one our two lead actors Conan and Jasmine
07:47you know that that has really helped you know their career and they have gone on and done
07:53so many more verticals um and I suppose what I didn't understand is the fan base that's associated
08:00with vertical dramas and this is can only be a benefit for actors there's a huge fan base so
08:06you know and and they want to see real you know real emotion natural performers on screen and if
08:14you can deliver that as an actor it's only going to benefit you in the long run and and then
08:19prosper
08:20into a beautiful career and then even work maybe more consistently in in vertical dramas or any other
08:27form of media uh what's the difference between taking a tape for tv or films and verticals so in the
08:36beginning as a casting director I was really passionate when I when I started casting for
08:41verticals was it was all about the acting which is huge um and it's a huge part but there was
08:48another
08:48side of it that it was um you know the presentation of somebody the presence on screen um because everything
08:56is so immediate there it needs to be kind of like I don't know I I needed to make sure
09:01performance were
09:02like quite powerful quite quickly so for actors that are taping I always say to them it's about that
09:09first you know 15 30 seconds how can you capture us um you know how how can you you know
09:17use your
09:18emotional intelligence or your emotional like vocab to show us what you can do on screen
09:24um and I think at first myself and even actors we we weren't understanding that um you know over here
09:31um in the UK I feel like um we don't always have the actors that not all the time present
09:38themselves
09:39extremely well um and what I mean by that it's small things like you know comb your hair or you
09:46know
09:46have a little bit of makeup on if you're a female look presentable um and I was finding that some
09:52of our UK actors were not doing that in tapes um because we have a little slightly different slants
09:59on things we want things a bit more natural so our some of our UK actors you know just do
10:05tapes that
10:06are very natural you know maybe not as much makeup or you know the hair and we like that natural
10:12look
10:12but I had to kind of switch the narrative and be like guys you need to present yourself on screen
10:17like a little bit like how we do for commercials so tv commercials they're instant it's it's your facial
10:25expressions it's your you know eye line it's it's what you say maybe in one sentence that can sometimes
10:34book you a tv commercial so what I found there was some similarities in that what we need to see
10:41in a
10:42tv commercial someone's look um someone's presence on screen is how people need to take this is not
10:48just reading a script this is you know you put in yourself emotionally in that character rather than
10:55just reading the script and you know doing a performance um and I did get you know a lot of
11:02times actors will do a lot of over performing um which is sometimes needed you know there are you know
11:08in
11:08in some of the vertical dramas we do need the actors that can do the a bit over over exaggerated
11:14over acting um which some of the UK actors didn't find as natural to do so it's for me as
11:21a casting
11:21director it's really been trying to educate the agents educate actors like you know if you want a
11:28tape for these vertical dramas this is kind of like how you should be doing it um and and and
11:34for me as
11:34a casting director I feel like it's important for me to do that because it's helping people get work
11:40um and you know there are a lot of creatives actors crew that have not had a lot of work
11:47you know for
11:48for quite a long time and the vertical drama space is really opening up a lot of opportunities for
11:54many of us even including myself um you know casting for these and you know having great success in in
12:01in some of the verticals that I've cast it is is very rewarding to see the actors you know go
12:07on
12:07and do very well and then start maybe I see them sometimes appear in other vertical dramas that I
12:13haven't cast and I'm like this is beautiful this is this is what it should be why do you see
12:18some
12:18acting should be over acted and why some should be natural uh inverted I think yeah I think because
12:26it's such you know it's real emotional in such a short amount of time isn't it so it's really um
12:32you know certain parts need to be a little bit more dramatic um and I kind of I kind of
12:39see it
12:39sometimes in you know when you go to the theater you know you need to have a different performer than
12:45when you watch like maybe a tv series where you're taking time to get to know that that character
12:50you don't have that time in the vertical dramas you want you want that that screen presence and
12:56that instant um I mean the instant attraction from the audience you know you want the audience to kind
13:03of either fall in love with that person or hate that person so it needs to be like a real
13:08intense
13:09acting and when I say like overacting I don't even mean like sometimes really over the top it just
13:15needs to have that overly emotional kind of acting so that it can be seen and felt from the other
13:23side
13:23of the screen so they don't have to work it out themselves like you know how do you spot that
13:29a
13:29talent that really connect to short drama storytelling I think for me it's um it took me a little while
13:35um to to kind of understand this and I I obviously work very close with the director whoever's on the
13:42on
13:42the um vertical drama production the clients um you know and it's it's really understanding what
13:49their vision is as well um because you know they know what they want and they know the look they
13:55want at at times so for me it's it's as long as I bring a lot of options for people
14:01that I feel
14:02could deliver that role um and look the part but I always will throw in some other options as well
14:08because I feel that that's it that's that's important to um in casting um for example you
14:15know I don't think we're there yet with um diversity you know a lot of like the ethnicity of roles
14:22is is
14:22still quite quite the same um but I'm hoping over time with with the demand and the change and
14:30you know the UK kind of demand for this kind of format then the storytelling and the roles will
14:38become more diverse um so it becomes more relatable for even our society have you noticed any changes
14:45in how actors are being cast in short dramas over the past years yeah I feel like we begin we
14:51initially
14:52began um very aesthetic so it's very about a look of somebody in the beginning and not really the acting
14:59um and I used to really push for acting um as well as a good look you know um and
15:06I feel in the last
15:07year I think that is that is changing I feel like um you know even even clients producers directors are
15:14seeing now the acting needs to be a huge part of this as well because you could have somebody that
15:21um looks absolutely beautiful and is you know beautiful on screen um but the acting is not there
15:29and I think that the audience are not silly they they want they want to feel like they relate to
15:35this person or they want to feel like this is their dream or fantasy of being someone like this so
15:41I
15:41I do feel that at times um that in the beginning was more about the the initial look of somebody
15:49so say
15:49like you know model looking people um whereas now we're moving into an era of more the acting is
15:57really important because you know if you don't have an actor that can deliver at a fast pace
16:04you know emotionally led narrative story then it's it's it's it's not going to come across well on
16:09screen so you kind of want a bit of both you want an amazing kind of actor that can deliver
16:15with an
16:16also an amazing look which is going to suit whatever character you know we want on screen your ceo
16:23you're billionaire you you know what the some of some of the roles that are already in the mix
16:29for an actor from maybe film background or an actor never acted before wants to get involved
16:36into short drama industry what kind of suggestion will you give it to him or her I would say really
16:41um really enjoy it I feel like for me um I've had majority of the feedback that I get from
16:49actors
16:49is really positive you know that they're working on set with the production teams has been an amazing
16:55experience for them um I think as well because it is quite fast paced you know usually done within
17:01eight days shoot or or something you know there's there's there's no time for any kind of messing
17:07around on set it's really like a focused environment um a creative environment and a really fun environment
17:14because so it's so fast paced so I would always say to any actor you know don't not enjoy the
17:21whole
17:21process understand it you know be prepared for on set you know things can change so know that script
17:28inside and out you know just in case dialogue changes or they want you to you know slightly change
17:35the the kind of script or you know do something slightly different and keep quite open-minded
17:41because I do feel there's there's a lot of potential like I did um I recently just worked on
17:48uh casting a vertical and I had to cast for talent in LA and talent in Italy even just the
17:59difference
17:59in you know the American um agents and actors and their knowledge of vertical dramas and how to present
18:09themselves in a self-tape or even on Instagram like how how the actors are presenting on Instagram
18:15um was so different to actors that were in Italy
18:21so you know I I feel as well for actors it's it's also a time to you know really understand
18:28how you are
18:29marketing yourself you know and whether that be through your agent or whether it be on your own
18:33if you're you've not represented but how you're marketing yourself as well so that when when we
18:39are putting you forward for these jobs you know you can be you you can be kind of seen and
18:44you know
18:44what you're doing on social media or how you're presenting your profile um and just and just enjoy
18:52them because I think they're fun jobs to do how will you suggest to presenting themselves and on
18:58Instagram or social accounts so for example I have these talks with actors and I do feel so um a
19:04lot
19:04of the time um you know and this is happening across all forms of casting you know clients may
19:10ask for social media handles of of actors and while it's not an essential tool to have if you do
19:18have it
19:18as an actor it's really good to be mindful about what you are posting on social media and if you
19:25want
19:25your um social media to represent what who you are as an actor then you have an account that does
19:32that
19:32you know so be mindful of what you're kind of sharing on on social media um or how you're presenting
19:39yourself on social media how do you want to be seen as an actor on there and you can have
19:43a personal one
19:44and then you can have a business one you could you know if you want to keep your business a
19:48personal
19:49one with your friends and you know taking pictures of food that you're eating that day or you know
19:54places you're going but then have a have one that's about your acting like you know um certain
20:00shots that you take or certain short clips of things that you've been involved um that that to me really
20:07really helps and I find as well that I've noticed the vertical drummer um actors that I've worked with
20:15that are doing really well they have a presence on social media and they engage with audiences and
20:22you know they engage with the fans in a really positive way you know so it's being mindful that
20:29you're also responsible for maybe you know fans or audiences and and how how you come across in that
20:37because you've just been on screen presenting yourself as this you know whichever role that you may have
20:43done um and then if you then come on social media and you know and an audience or a fan
20:51you know like
20:52something or engages with you how do you respond to that you know it's about being quite positive and
20:57and engaging in a in a good positive way as well that was a really good suggestion so right now
21:03in
21:04North America I found out most short dramas still dominated by a CEO romance so what kind of stories do
21:10you think were resonate with maybe Europe or North American audience yeah I feel like you know what
21:17we haven't I suppose they're quite similar you know all of the the themes that go across them so I
21:25think
21:25for us you know there's there's sci-fi I mean romance psychological thriller um you know maybe having
21:33even more um representation of like I don't know a powerful I don't know boss woman or something like
21:42that so other even some other female-led you know stories um even tapping more into our um LGBTQ you
21:51know
21:51communities and um make it making stories I think that would relate to wider audiences um and and and
22:02different cultures as well um I think would be would be a great a great way to go because I
22:08do I do feel
22:09like for me I always say I feel like that vertical dramas or short dramas for me I don't think
22:16they're
22:16just a trend I think they are like I feel like they're like this new modern chapter of like storytelling
22:24people will read books in in bed and stuff like that or on the train um whereas now you're going
22:31around and you're seeing people are you know on their phones watching these at a quicker pace you
22:37know traveling commuting from home to work they haven't got as much time so they want to kind of
22:42get all these quick episodes so if they were stories that were relatable I think um and and just show
22:49a
22:50little bit more yeah diversity and inclusivity so that more audiences could could get involved I think
22:56that would be great from your observation uh do you think the way female leads are portrayed in short
23:02dramas has any issues for improvement I I do feel I think like anything I think there's always room for
23:10an improvement and um I think for for me as as as a woman you know even working in the
23:18industry
23:19um we always we always have a struggle a little bit more um in in the creative spaces um and
23:27and whilst
23:28I think these short dramas they're giving are opening doors for us as as women you know there's I've worked
23:34with some incredible you know writers women writers you know women producers so um but I I do feel
23:42that some of the some of the script writing it it can feel at times that you know you know
23:51there was
23:51there is a similarity across like the stories of the woman um and the female kind of characters
23:59um sometimes you know on the intimacy side or um you know some of the more you know uh slaps
24:08you know
24:09there's there's quite a lot of you know you know kind of these things which I know I know as
24:14well
24:14we've had um we've worked closely like the director myself um the director will work closely with client
24:22and producer as well too at times if if things are like really really inappropriate it's like can there
24:29be some dilution of these like certain scenes because um you also have to remember the these are actors
24:37um but we are also expecting quite a lot from them for a fee that is quite low um and
24:44and so when you
24:45are expecting you know a woman to you know be slapped 10 times in in a script or um you
24:56know be put in
24:57certain intimacy scenes you know this also should warrant a um a level of um fee to to support what
25:06what
25:06skill this takes um you know this isn't you know you have actors that are involved in these intimacy
25:12scenes and and they're paid a decent amount of money to be able to do this so when we are
25:18asking
25:19for actors to do this at such a low budget it can it can be difficult and especially if females
25:25are seen to be in in certain roles it can be uncomfortable for the actress as well
25:32um i will be honest with you i have had actors both male and female that have turned down roles
25:41because of um the script writing or or the theme across the story um so yeah i think this there's
25:52there's still some improvement most definitely in in those those areas in a sensitive way yeah most most
26:00definitely if you were like a writer you create a female character for a short draw what kind of
26:05female character could it be i mean i i'm quite like that um uh unapologetic like woman like you know
26:14female i don't know a female led uh quite a powerful like bold bold woman like i don't know if
26:22you know
26:22um uh the character um arabella in i may in i may destroy you over here michaela
26:30cole's cole's series but or or like for me i would want someone a character that's a real bold woman
26:36as as well that is i don't know just just brilliant and just inspires you know other other women um
26:45and
26:45that doesn't mean a male character can't just be as inspirational or bold in the story but you know
26:50women go through so many so many things you know it could be a you know motherhoods you know there's
26:57so
26:57many things i think as a female character we could portray so i think there's that that's quite
27:03exciting because i think for females there's no there's no limit to what a woman is capable of
27:08doing so i think i'd want a real like yeah boss female like bold brilliant like just takes risks
27:15you mentioned about like short drum open doors for you uh do you think female like short drum open
27:22doors for other creators female creators yeah most definitely because i think um i think for women
27:31especially like we are very um emotional intelligent like emotionally intelligent so and i think you need
27:37a lot of that in short dramas like so you know i think there's so much room for you know
27:45female
27:46female creatives in this space um when it comes to writers producers female directors i've had the
27:54opportunity to work with a wonderful female director on a on a short drama and i i think that we
28:00um we just
28:02get it in a slightly different way as well i think because of how we see things in an emotional
28:06intelligent way um so i think there's definitely room for lots more female creatives in this space
28:13even as a casting director you know there should be more casting directors involved in in these in
28:18casting for these because you know we we have an understanding on both production but also for the
28:25support and the protection of actors so we are kind of you know we're doing as much as we can
28:32to make
28:32sure that the actors that one the client gets what they want but also the actors have a great experience
28:38and are paid fairly for it as well um so yeah even more casting directors getting involved more writers
28:45um more producers yeah i want to see a lot more female directors as well so you mentioned about
28:51advantages have you encountered any challenges in short drama in the stress of women um i think i think
28:58women we always still face challenges because i think i suppose we're not always as as visible
29:06you know um and i think for as a as a female casting director i can only talk from that
29:15kind of angle
29:16we are probably one of the the first roles um that a client or somebody cuts because you know they
29:26may
29:26not feel the need to have a casting director on board you know they may they may want to do
29:33the casting
29:34in-house um so i suppose for me at times that can that can be a challenge because i will
29:42always push
29:43for you to have someone like me on board because i'm just going to take full responsibility of all
29:49the casting and you're not going to have to worry about all the heavy administration that comes with
29:53it as well so but i do think as you know from a female perspective casting director yeah i i
30:00would
30:00i'm probably the first one that they go no not in the budget we don't need her um so i
30:06suppose that's
30:07been a challenge because then even though there's consistent short dramas being made there's not
30:14consistent cast and directors and as a female i'm not seen in all you know as many as maybe i
30:20should be
30:21if you need to define short drama how will you define it and what's the aspect of short drama
30:27for me short dramas they are emotionally led like narrative stories they have a lot of cliffhangers
30:35you know lots of lots of moments um needed for that they're powerful impactful storytelling um on screen
30:44um in a short space of time and they connect with or they should connect with instant with audiences
30:54instantly the essence the core of short drama i think to really capture the heart of audiences i
31:01think capture the heart take people away from maybe their reality of day-to-day life um you know get
31:09them get them lost in a in a world of you know either either either dream reality fantasy whatever
31:18it may be but maybe you know either take them away from what their reality is or or give them
31:25kind of
31:25an essence of like have a reflection on what what life is what what life is really happening for you
31:31and
31:31look at what others are experiencing going through and how they can get through it um so i feel like
31:37it's
31:37it's yeah hopefully that i've kind of narrowed that down in some sort of essence you mentioned about
31:44the taking their audience away so do you think all the stories are short dramas should be a good ending
31:50that's the million dollar question i'm not too sure i mean because i mean life doesn't always end in a
31:57good way does it but i think there's also an element of um i don't think they should always end
32:04uh because that's not always reality but it's it's to be fair i don't know i can't even i don't
32:11know if
32:12it should be that it should always end nicely because i think there should be elements of some
32:17and then there should be elements of like some that it doesn't end the way that we would maybe
32:24like it to because it's it that's kind of also reality isn't it that's that's life the future
32:30our short drama is do you know what like i said before i feel they're a new chapter of storytelling
32:35and i i do feel if um you know because the the demand and um the success for them in
32:42in china and
32:43the us and uh and now coming to europe i do think if there is um if the quality gets
32:50better of the
32:51productions um if the creative the writing um is is just um it doesn't get better i don't think it's
33:00that
33:00it gets better but it's just more relatable for wider audiences then i feel that this this format
33:06of of storytelling is is here to stay um you know i do feel that people are they have less
33:13time to sit
33:14and watch a whole tv drama series as much um there is still the demand for that so we're not
33:21taking
33:21nothing away from tv drama series because they're amazing as well but i think there's also a demand
33:26um or the option of people wanting to choose um to watch something at a faster pace because of
33:34limited time right now like everybody's i don't know everyone seems a lot busier in their lives than
33:40we used to and i think nowadays i mean i speak to friends and and they will be watching a
33:46tv series
33:47but they will get frustrated that they're having to wait until next week for the next episode
33:52so i i just feel like our society is demanding a little bit more of a faster pace um and
33:59if as i
33:59said if the stories get more relatable for wider audiences then this could just be on every single
34:07person's handheld device and and you know and and the demands yeah has the potential to to to be there
34:14and and and provide lots more work for our creatives and actors i would just say if there's any advice
34:21to give some actors out there and if they want to cast in these short dramas vertical dramas
34:27um it's really about them understanding about how to be you know natural quick and real
34:35you know natural quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and
34:35real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick
34:35and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real
34:35quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and
34:35real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick
34:35and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real
34:35quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and
34:35real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick
34:35and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real
34:35quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and
34:35real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick and real quick
34:35and
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