- il y a 2 jours
In this Duanju interview, Celia Xavier shares her transition from traditional filmmaking to Duanju, discussing storytelling, emotional hooks, the RealShort contest, and why she believes the future of entertainment lies in short-form content. Interview by WENWEN HAN.
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00:00My name is Celia Xavier, and my experience in the film business has been with traditional
00:07filmmaking and mostly documentaries. And it's only within the past six months have I even heard
00:15of the verticals. And it came about because I was looking for work as crew. I do UPM,
00:24production coordinator producing, and that really dried up significantly. But what I did see were
00:31people posting that they needed actors and stuff. So after a long hiatus of not acting,
00:39I submitted to some of these and auditioned and would get booked. So I just thought, well, that's
00:45so from left field, because that's nothing that was on my radar at all. And so that's how I got
00:52into the verticals, because they have so much casting availability for somebody like me.
01:00And I'm all for that. So I'm just thrilled. And then I realized that I wanted to also,
01:09I love writing, and I'm passionate about writing. And I've written quite a few scripts, and I wanted
01:13to get into that. But so many of the platforms, they would always say, well, you need vertical
01:19experience. And so I got this harebrained idea to produce 10 episodes of a vertical and to get
01:32experience. And that was a great experience, because it just happened to be the time where
01:38Real Short was having their contest. And I always say it was the by the grace of God,
01:47their deadline was extended an extra 30 days. If they had not done that, I would have never been
01:54able to submit. Because we were backed up for as far as the location went, we were not able to
02:02get
02:02our location until September. So we were able to submit the 10 episodes into the contest. And just on the
02:13last day. And we are ranked number 12. And it's just amazing how many views we have like 70,000
02:23views
02:23in two weeks. And it really, we're not even on their main page, right? We're in the contest division.
02:29And so it showed it proved to me that there's this massive audience that are digesting the these shorts.
02:37And I'm just so curious as to, I would love to interview some of the people who are watching
02:43my content to see what it is that they liked about it, and what caught their eye, all that.
02:49Can you share more about the Real Short contest? Because I'm not very familiar with that.
02:54So I saw on LinkedIn that Crazy Maple was offering a contest to they were looking for new talent.
03:04And so I earmarked it. And I thought, well, this, this could be interesting. Again, I had no experience
03:10except traditional writing, but I wanted to take up the challenge. So they had different categories,
03:17such as romance, suspense, and beyond genre, and then a fan based category that you could write for
03:25and produce. So I made something that was a little more considered beyond genre, but it had definitely
03:31romance in it. And it was based on something that is grounded in my life. And then of course, I
03:40added
03:40some fictionalized versions of it. And I went for 10 episodes because I'm crazy like that, right?
03:48So we shot 10 episodes in one day at one location that had five different sets. And again, we,
03:55you know, during the editing process is where I really learned the most about the vertical business,
04:03right? To have the timing of where the episode ends and how it starts again. So that was just very,
04:12very learning education, but with the editing. And so then the way the people vote is just by watching,
04:20right? So we just shared and all the other actors just shared. And we, we very quickly went up the
04:27ranks. Again, I can't tell you why I think I did change the title from Tangled Hearts to a more
04:36of a
04:36title that fits the verticals. I'm in love with my daughter's fake baby daddy. That could have
04:44something to do with it. I'm not sure. But we'll see, we have, I think, maybe 10 more days. And
04:52then
04:52the voting for the public is done. But real shorts, it's now in their hands to see where the final
05:00rankings go. And we'll find out. But it did really well. I'm very proud of everyone that was involved.
05:07Congratulations on that. For the first 10 episodes, your company founded that, right?
05:12Yes. So I wrote it, directed it, and was acting in it. But I would love to shoot the whole
05:18thing
05:18over. Now, like I said, where I saw in editing, where I learned in editing was so drastic that
05:23I would love to shoot it all over again, the whole thing.
05:26What do you learn from the editing? Are the real shots give you any suggestions?
05:32No, no, they did not. The only thing they said was that had to be 45 seconds minimum each episode.
05:39What I learned was the beats, you want to start a little more in the middle of the scene. And
05:46of
05:47course, on what they call the cliffhanger, or something that's going to keep the audience
05:53swiping. But now I really, really know.
05:55When you write the first Vertical Script, how do you choose your topic? And where do you find the
06:00inspiration?
06:01Yes, this one was based on someone I dated, I had a date, I have a lot of dating nightmare
06:08stories.
06:10So this was actually one of them. And it turns out that it's not uncommon, that people do meet
06:21somebody that maybe doesn't speak fluent English. And so we were using Google Translate
06:26on the phone to communicate. And so that was sort of the inception, the seed for this story.
06:35So it's like a comedy story?
06:37No, no, no, it turns out that he's, he's a, I see him as a fraud, and that he's playing
06:43all these people. But what I have for the entire series is that he does have a hidden agenda as
06:53well.
06:53And so does my character. And so does my daughter. So we're just getting a taste of these people and
07:00where we think it's going. But of course, there will be multiple twists along the way.
07:05How do you design characters?
07:08Usually, it's based on people I know, and real life situations. I have a saying that true life is
07:15way stranger than fiction could ever be. I know so many people who have just wild stories and lives
07:25that. So my stuff is always grounded, what I say, what I call in reality, there is something there
07:31that is definitely people can relate to. In other words, like finding out that some of your dating
07:38is married. That's something I think maybe a lot of people can can relate to.
07:44How do you capture the audience attention in just 10 seconds or five seconds? And when you do
07:50then the editing, is there anything you regret or you want to reshoot?
07:56Right, I wish I would have shot a lot more footage. And a lot more of the people of the
08:03actors when
08:04they were not acting. So in other words, when they're sitting there waiting for the cameras to
08:08run or for people to call action, the actors are usually sitting there and they have different
08:15expressions. And I wish I would have captured a lot more of that and just a lot more footage.
08:21How do you capture the audience's attention? It has to be a strong emotional hook or something.
08:30So we used, she's pregnant, she's sick, he's married, he's cheating, those type of strong
08:37situations.
08:38Why do you want to shoot this? When people are sitting, the actors are sitting relaxed,
08:43why do you need those footages?
08:45Because sometimes we, as a matter of fact, I did use in the very first scene, the very first episode,
08:54I did use the lead girl. She was sitting there waiting for the cameras to roll and she's just
09:01sitting there and it looks like she's thinking. And so I, we used it in the editing to be like,
09:08she's waiting for her first date and the dialogue that's going through her mind is the text that I
09:14put there. So it was like, wow, it was golden footage that I didn't even know I had.
09:20Right. And it just really saved, to me, it saved that scene because it gave a little bit of a
09:27prologue to the scene that I wouldn't have had normally.
09:31It's monologue.
09:32Just a little bit of question that she had, you know, he doesn't speak English. So
09:35how's this going to work? Something like that. And it gives the audience a little taste of
09:41what's going on in the story before the story evolves. There was another time where I had the
09:47male actor. He was sitting there and he broke out into this laughter, but it, it, for some reason
09:55with the lighting and everything, it looked like a very evil laugh. It just did. So I was able to
10:01use
10:01that to show that maybe like he's an evil guy or something. So I was just, just things like that.
10:07I love.
10:08Yeah. When you do the shooting, it's like two camera shooting or three camera shooting.
10:12Well, this one was just one. We did it on a real shoestring budget. Yes.
10:17Now about hooks and how do you create hooks?
10:21That's a good question. You have to find out what it is, the characters, right? What is their flaws?
10:28And then you want to throw that character into a situation that they're not comfortable with. And
10:34then when they're, they're pushed up against that situation is hopefully where that hook will come
10:42in. And then the audience is like, well, what is she going to do? We know that she's, I don't
10:48know,
10:48got ADHD or something like that. And we know she's not going to do well in this type of situation,
10:53or she's afraid of flying and now she has to fly. Is she going to freak out or whatever?
10:57So it's knowing their flaws and then putting them in a situation where you know that they're
11:03not going to do well.
11:04What do you see the big difference between traditional film and TV and verticals?
11:09Well, films are slow burns, right? To get to know the character. TV has those arcs. They set up a
11:16problem and then they solve the problem in the end of the TV show. Whereas verticals are,
11:23I call them emotional bombs, right? There are these immediate situations that cause an emotional
11:35reaction from the audience. And it's done through the actor's faces, their close-ups, their looks,
11:43their facial expressions, things like that. So it's just a more immediate emotional impact that it has.
11:52Mentioning about the emotional impact, how do you create emotional resonance with the audience?
11:57Like I said, I think it has to be based in reality of something, right? Where the people can relate
12:05to it. It has to be that human connection that of being betrayed, of being lied to, of, I'm just
12:12talking about this one script only, of that international emotion that people can still
12:21relate to over language, right? It has to translate over all these different languages. Because I'm sure
12:29the 70,000 views we got are not just US, they have to be international as well.
12:35In North America, most verticals are still dominated by CEO romance stories. In your point of view,
12:42what type of other stories can be explored and why?
12:45I think they're starting to do more action. And I've heard of some people doing thrillers and horror
12:52even. I think it has to expand and grow. And that is how it will grow is through the other
12:59genres
12:59that people are going to be creating.
13:02How would you define short drama?
13:03They are, everything is more immediate with these short verticals, right? There's no filler.
13:12There's no, it's, everything is like the emotion is immediate shorts. And it makes for that you have
13:20to cut out a lot of stuff when you're writing, you don't really need it. And I noticed that they
13:26use
13:27text overlays.
13:29What kind of countenance need to be cut out from a script?
13:33Dialogue that explains stuff that doesn't, you don't really need that. You can do that with a look
13:38or, you know, a, you know, maybe showing their hands, you know, if they're tense or something,
13:45you can show it in their hands. And so you can do a lot with just the visual part of
13:52it,
13:52as opposed to saying it. So yeah, I had to cut a lot of stuff.
13:58Can you give me another example for that? What kind of countenance did you cut out?
14:04Well, you only need like, you don't need like a setup almost, you don't. So in other words,
14:10with traditional film writing, you kind of set up the scene and the location,
14:15location, and the time of day or whatever. So you just have that you have the location time of day,
14:21but you don't have to shoot the whole setup. In other words, like if you're at a high school or
14:27something, you don't have to say, well, you know, it's right after lunch period, and the kids are all
14:32sitting around. No, you don't. You just cut right to the drama at the lunch table.
14:36Right. So maybe a wide shot of the high school for one second, then cut it indirectly.
14:43Yes. Right. It almost makes me feel like the other way, the traditional way of filmmaking is
14:53antiquated. I don't know if anyone else has said that to you. So in other words, AFM American Film
14:58Market is coming in November to our city. And I have no desire to even attend that because that
15:06old model of making films, even it just seems just like it's a dinosaur to me, you know,
15:15after doing this and seeing the results immediately, the audience results immediately with no
15:21gatekeeper. Right. In other words, there's no gatekeeper that happened to look at our script,
15:29looked at, looked at our film and said, well, you know, well, I don't know if the audience is going
15:33to like this. No, we just put it out there. And the audience liked it. And I love that about
15:39this
15:41vertical space. One friend of mine said, he said, a lot of people don't have time to watch like a
15:48whole movie nowadays, right? They have very limited time. And so that's why verticals are so easily
15:56consumed as well. That sense of short drama. I'm not sure what you mean by that. Like,
16:02I can give an example. Some people I interviewed said short drama verticals are escapism.
16:09Yes, definitely soap operas, definitely telenovelas, but supercharged almost, you know,
16:15they're like, on, on crack. Soap operas on crack. How's that?
16:21Do you feel you have certain advantage in short drama industry?
16:25Well, as an actress, they always need that matriarch or that the woman who's in charge of
16:33the family who's, you know, not going to let her son marry trash. And so the people my age are
16:41in high
16:42demand there. And as far as writing and directing, I think, if I'm not mistaken, the audience who
16:51consumes these are around my age too. And so I feel like my stories can, can resonate with them
17:00as a writer, because they know that younger men love older women right now. It's a trend, you know.
17:07As a woman, have you encountered any challenges while working in verticals?
17:11Well, the one challenge I saw was when I attended the vertical market, and I did meet with some of
17:18the
17:19producers of many, many verticals. And they said, right now, because it's the Chinese coming to
17:29America, wanting the American content, they are using a lot of Caucasian looking actors. And,
17:38you know, to me, that's not representative of our country at all. And, you know, this person said,
17:46well, they're slow to, you know, slowly, you know, we'll get there. But I think that with,
17:53at least with my content, you can see that now we're not blonde-haired, blue-eyed people.
17:57So I'm hoping to, to see a change in that area. So that to me was like a, an obstacle,
18:06but just something to be aware of.
18:08I think those platforms, they're still trying to figure out what the American audience wants.
18:13Oh, but I just want to add that I, I got, I've just recently got cast for two big parts,
18:19one for drama wave, and one for, oh, I can't think of the other one. And, you know, it's as
18:26me. So
18:27it's not like, you know, they are slowly putting people that of color in their stories. So I'm very
18:35happy about that.
18:36From your observation, do you think the way female leads, because you perform in some verticals,
18:42do you think the way female leads are portrayed to ensure dramas have any issues
18:46or areas for improvement?
18:48Well, yes. I think usually they, you know, they, I think they will, I think they'll get,
18:55right now they're pretty strong, these women, right? I mean, they, they start out maybe weak,
19:00but then they, they start getting a backbone within the story. And I think that, you know,
19:07so they do have a character arc. I, I, I'm not opposed to seeing, see the way they're portrayed
19:15right now. I think, um, my only issue is with the ethnicity. That's really, if you were create a
19:23female character in a vertical, what kind of female character?
19:28Probably an assassin.
19:29Female assassin. Cool.
19:31Yeah. Probably somebody who takes out like all the, the people who are, uh, are insane or something,
19:39you know?
19:39Is there any story that women would love to see in short dramas, but haven't been told yet?
19:45Yes. I think where, uh, again, it's the genre of thrillers and horrors where, um, it's actually
19:53the, the, the main character that is maybe solving the situation versus like police solving it,
20:02getting involved in solving it and stuff like that. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of room there
20:07for, um, expanding into those other genres to be telling further stories. Mystery is always good.
20:17Those are the kind of things that I, I love thrillers and, um, I'm a huge Korean thriller,
20:23um, fan. Um, and I love the way that they, they make their films. So, um, that's actually what I
20:32love
20:32writing the most are thrillers. I just haven't figured out how to do it as a vertical.
20:37Do you think that's really what happened? Like it were, I don't think it'll replace. I think as
20:42things get more expensive for people to go out, you know, it's very expensive for a family to go
20:48out to the movies here in California, for instance, and if they can enjoy, um, oh, that's the other
20:56thing. I think family, family dramas would be a good one as well. Um, and if they can enjoy a
21:02family
21:02series together, um, at home in the comfort of their own home, I think that, that could be very
21:11great. So yeah, as things get more expensive, it's just easier just to stay home and watch.
21:16I have a question based on the family drama. So since it's played on a vertical film, like how
21:24everyone likes, let's say a small family, how can they enjoy a one vertical in their film together?
21:32Well, that's where I do think, um, the other part of that question where I see it going is,
21:38is also more interactive. In other words, I do think that, um, each person for instance,
21:44could have their own phone and interact with their own, have their own, their own ending
21:49that they would like maybe through AI or some other form. I'm not sure how yet. And, um, and so
21:57you can have the same family watching and have like different results of, of an ending based on who's
22:03watching and things like that. But I do know I were watching, um, a little, a two, our two-year
22:09-old,
22:09she's not my grandchild, but she's like my friend's, um, baby. And she watches Bluey on her phone all the
22:18time. You know, Bluey, it's a little series. So at two years old, they're already watching content
22:25on their phone at two years old. So, you know, I do think that it's going to evolve to where
22:33they're
22:34going to be watching these children's shows, possibly on verticals for, for kids.
22:40We don't have this in China, like for kids.
22:43No?
22:43We do have for young people. So AI motion comics, but we don't have those for kids.
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