- il y a 2 jours
In this in-depth conversation, Monika (Whitney) Dalman—film and TV casting director, vertical microdrama consultant, and strategic partnerships advisor, shares insider insights on performance style, talent discovery, diversity shifts, female representation, and the evolving business model of short-form storytelling. She breaks down what truly makes a vertical drama work, from cliffhanger-driven writing to confident, camera-commanding actors. Interviewed by Wenwen Han.
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Art et designTranscription
00:00Could you briefly introduce yourself and your role in short drama industry?
00:04My name is Monica Dahlman and I'm a casting director in film and TV traditional as well as
00:12vertical but I've also been working as a vertical microdrama industry consultant and a strategic
00:18partnerships advisor and as a consulting producer on vertical microdramas all over the world.
00:24How did you first get involved in short dramas?
00:26Well my first involvement was in 2023 I think for a project for Pocket FM and we we did a
00:33few
00:33projects after that although I never really knew which platform they were for. In fact the first
00:38one I don't think they even told me it would be shot vertically they just felt like a normal
00:42narrative project to me and I knew they had different requirements they wanted like soap
00:47opera performance so that's how I got involved.
00:49What do you think that's unique about casting for vertical dramas compared to traditional film
00:54and TV? I feel like every medium has its own sort of acting style but I know that what's really
01:00important with verticals is that you have every second of every performance has to be both visually
01:08and audibly intriguing in order to sort of play up that dopamine drive to get them to the next episode
01:16to try to get them past the paywall. They're bigger performances but I do sort of get irritated when
01:21agents or actors will say oh you want bad acting it's not bad acting we want larger performances that
01:27they all acting is about being truthful under pretend circumstances and I think within the vertical
01:35plot lines and within the world of verticals these big responses are exactly truthful to how you would
01:42probably react if you lived in a world where everyone was very blatantly telling you exactly how they feel
01:48or if everyone was slapping everybody else all the time like I think the responses being big are as truthful
01:55as you possibly could get. I feel like that's what we're looking for in the performances.
01:59I tell people to imagine that they're scrolling through social media and then they see those reels playing
02:05on the screen and there's no sound. We need them to do something in their performance that makes people
02:11need to hear the sound or they need to click but we need to be drawing people in even when
02:16they're not hearing
02:17what's going on. So every second has to be so enticing that we have to click it. We have to
02:26know what's
02:27going on in that scene. There isn't as much opportunity for those kind of low quiet moments
02:34but it's just different acting and I think good actors can kind of handle that challenge and see
02:38the difference. How do you spot talents that really connect in short form storytelling?
02:43Um honestly I've had really good luck with theater actors. They're not afraid to go big.
02:49Uh of course with verticals there's a lot of criticism that we are focusing uh so much on what
02:56people look like but with um I feel like when we're looking for talent for verticals of course we're
03:01looking for a soap opera look. That's what the characters would look like but we're also looking for
03:07people who aren't afraid to go big. They're not afraid that they don't want to be small. They want
03:15to they want to really perform and I think when you're in 916 when it's your turn to be on
03:21camera
03:22when it's your coverage it's all about you right and you have to have actors who are not afraid to
03:27make to make the scene theirs and make their moment and have luck with people who've done a lot of
03:33theater. Um we've had luck with just people who watch them I feel are really good actors. They
03:40understand what we're looking for. Um just really confident actors. You need to be really confident
03:47to do this work otherwise you're going to hold back and if you're holding back the performance is
03:53not going to speak to the audience. Oh actually I thought most of actors will be actresses will be
03:58very confident. Well I feel like even actors are very are very um unusually unusual sort of
04:06psychologically like you could have actors who are maybe a little arrogant but they're not confident.
04:10You can have actors who I think true confidence is really about just knowing that if you're asked to
04:18do something that you know you could do it. It's funny you can get a really attractive person in front
04:23of
04:23the camera and even if they're really confident in their looks they might not necessarily be confident
04:28in their performance. So it's a bit of a mixed bag but confidence is really what we're always looking
04:34for in casting because you want to hire somebody who knows they can do the job right. Every second
04:39counts especially on a vertical set and you could have the hottest lead male in the world who you know
04:47would look great on camera would look great in stills but if they're not a confident actor
04:51you're never going to make your day. It's going to be harder for the other actors. It's going to
04:56slow everything down. So we like to test for that in the actors because you just never know.
05:01If someone never acts or have any reels before but he or she wants to get into verticals
05:09what's your suggestion for them? And also for who in the film and tv background but they still want to
05:16get into vertical what's your suggestion for them? My suggestion is to watch some verticals first
05:21and foremost so you understand like what the tone is the genre entirely like what what we're going for
05:27in a theme but also take some acting classes get comfortable. There have definitely been been
05:35interesting two years like we've definitely hired some lead actors that had never acted before
05:39and I always feel like we're kind of doing a disservice to those actors if we throw them on set
05:45for the first
05:45time in a vertical because people might think of verticals as being really easy but I would argue
05:52that they're actually quite a bit more difficult than a film or tv like traditional film or tv project
05:58like my kids are union actors they've been on huge movies they've been on huge tv series and sometimes
06:04it'll be one whole day for a scene is what they block out because they play with it they do
06:09it a million
06:09ways um the director wants to see it a hundred different times but in a vertical like ideally
06:15it's like one take next setup one take next take next setup and I feel like that's actually really
06:21challenging to do as an actor um you need to be able to make choices you need to no one's
06:27going to
06:27micromanage you you need to know your character when you show up you need to know the choices that
06:32you're going to make if you're not a confident actor or if you're new there's no way that you can
06:36possibly go in fully confident and I feel like that can hold the whole production back but I also
06:41feel like it's not great psychologically for an actor or a person um we've definitely had a few
06:47there have been a few times where you know they've wanted somebody that's completely brand new and has
06:53never acted based on look and then I've said oh I worked with them in the chem read and I
06:58really
06:58think they don't know what they're doing and there might be push from the client or push from
07:03whoever to cast them anyway and we usually have to hold their hand a lot or we had one actor
07:09who I
07:09think was never acted again after that it was just it's too much too fast um so I've been trying
07:16to
07:17get as many actors to learn the style and to even going on set in a day player role we
07:24like everyone on
07:25the show to be beautiful so like if you're very beautiful and you've never acted before like go do a
07:30couple scenes like get a feel for the pace get a feel for the energy and then we've pulled a
07:36lot
07:36of leads out of people who have done day player and supporting roles I think it's easier for people
07:43to not have to do doing a vertical as your first acting thing ever I think would be so challenging
07:49but I also think that moving from the vertical world to traditional film and tv would probably feel
07:57like a walk in the park only having to do like five to ten pages a day that's nothing to
08:02a vertical
08:02actor right like I think it's like the best boot camp for um traditional film and tv an actor could
08:09probably have when you enter casting vertical in E3 right have you noticed any changes in how actors
08:16have been cast in short dramas over the past two years and a half so what has changed and why
08:22I think
08:23over the past few years what I've mostly noticed is we're looking more at the acting now which I
08:29think is very important um I've always been looking for the acting but definitely at the beginning I
08:34think there was a rush to get those soap opera good looks onto the screen um by any means possible
08:41I don't know I feel like there's so many good looking people and I I feel like a lot of
08:46like the
08:47average person who's not in the film industry might think oh that person's so beautiful they should
08:51totally be an actor but it's so much more than a look to be a good actor carry a story
08:57and I think
08:58that over I would say more so over the past year we've been really making decisions based more on
09:05acting I think we have that now that verticals are more well known it's not as difficult to get
09:10many options and so can put more attention on focusing on the acting and not just focusing on what
09:19people look like that's been the best change in my opinion and it's been really interesting to see
09:23the actors who started two years ago that have really loved being on the vertical set and now
09:30they're hitting the gym all the time and they're taking really good care of the day they want to be
09:34a lead they've been working on their craft too we're focusing more now I think on the total package
09:40which is my preference have you noticed any like diversity in the casting in verticals or
09:47unfortunately no yeah so at the beginning uh I was definitely told by most cast like white people
09:56I think a lot of that was because the clients were coming from Asia where they were already filming
10:02the microdramas and so in moving here they were looking for a body of talent that they couldn't so
10:10easily get in Asia but I know a lot of that request first was also rooted in projects tend to
10:19perform
10:20better internationally when you have caucasian leads on a project um but we have definitely
10:27increased diversity on and pretty much every project that I've worked on um I think I got 30 verticals
10:34in before I had cast a single black actor um but now almost all the projects uh have at least
10:41like
10:41one one black actor in the cast we've had some leads that were diverse we've had definitely lots of
10:49supporting characters I'm hoping that we will get more I know that there's pressure people people
10:55and like for example um black audiences watch a disproportionate amount of um streamer streaming
11:06content you're looking at an area where it might be 15 black population they're often uh like 30 percent
11:15of who is streaming so I feel like it's going to sort itself out um there's been a lot of
11:20pressure
11:20all around and I think that's good but we're we're getting somewhere with it um I would like to see
11:27as much as possible obviously in North American short drama dominated by CEO romance um what type of
11:35other type of story do you think could explore and why all the stories that they they explore are
11:41not available in other streaming formats so um like I recently was learning a lot about the werewolf
11:49stories which were not on my radar before microdramas um and people have been educating me on the uh
12:00werewolf world and I was trying to think why on earth are people watching these it's totally not my
12:06interest but it makes sense that those stories perform really well in microdramas because there isn't
12:12really anywhere else to watch a story like that um but I think that a lot of the stories too
12:18the stories can be diverse or a little quirky because a they're to be watched alone so the
12:24stories can be a little weirder or a little sexier or whatever because you know you're not watching
12:30them with a friend or family but also because the budgets are low enough that a writer or a production
12:37company they're more willing to invest like a hundred thousand dollars on an idea than to sink like a
12:43million or more dollars into the idea of when it may or may not play out so it can kind
12:49of be a good
12:49little sandbox or testing ground for different story ideas which I like how do you define short drama
12:57and what's the essence of short drama I don't know if I would define it in one simple way but
13:03a lot more
13:04than just turning the camera um a lot of people think they can just take a story that they wrote
13:12and just cut it and then that makes it a vertical but I don't think that's that's not what it
13:18is
13:18um it's defined by those those moments of mostly below before the paywall of course um just those
13:27what's going to happen moments and constant wondering constant cliffhangers constant
13:34having to see more like really racing to see what's next um I'm definitely when I meet with
13:42producers or production companies or writers a lot of them do try to just pitch a story that they wrote
13:50for horizontal and they want to do it vertically and I tell them that's just not not going to work
13:55not where money is coming from and it's not uh why people are watching a vertical they like
14:03those brief little chunks and they love those cliffhangers you've received some scripts from
14:09producers and writers and directors who write some verticals so what's the difference it's really about
14:16those first 10 episodes or so you really need to get people emotionally you have to get them up
14:22to the paywall really know what happens next and most typically a longer film like a feature film
14:32is broken up into acts that are felt very differently so I feel like in order to be a good
14:39vertical writer
14:40or producer you have to enter the scene with a bit of humbleness um I always say that like
14:47if film that verticals are written in the same alphabet as traditional narratives but they're
14:57very much a different language and so if you kind of enter into the vertical scene thinking that you're
15:04going to be an expert because you've got 20 years of tv behind you then you're gonna fail as you
15:11really
15:11need to to go in knowing that this is a different thing can you tell an example like what kind
15:18of
15:18mistake they were made when you received the script for reviewing if I can tell that they've gone to
15:23like if with episode one and there's no clear distinction between the episodes where there's no
15:33cliffhanger there's no immediate introduction of a story or the conflict or the character when I'm
15:41consulting a company on like how to write for vertical like if they have a good idea um I always
15:50tell them
15:50that we need to really hook the audience in that first 10 episodes or I guess it could be a
15:58few more
15:58just before the paywall we've got to hook the audience um and if they really want to just you
16:04know drag it out then I kind of feel like maybe read a vertical script or two or watch some
16:09verticals
16:10first because it's just a flag to me that it'll just people will just be bored like if they wanted
16:14to be watching a horizontal narrative feature then that's what they'd be watching you know they
16:20wouldn't want to you really need those good beats and some writers that have done tv and film for a
16:27long time they're actually not bad at writing a vertical script but I think that they have to
16:33unlearn some habits before really diving deep into writing for vertical because I think it might
16:41actually be easier to start as a non-writer than it is to go from writing features to writing verticals
16:49for some people what kind of contests out and sea service do you provide I started doing it by
16:53accident because some network producers were reaching out and they were having a real struggle
16:59trying to get some like service production contracts with the different platforms and I think they were
17:06getting in their head about it because like the first group of people that I consulted for
17:11were had been producers on The Walking Dead and they could not for the life of them get a contract
17:17as a service production company for the vertical companies that had like come into that area of LA
17:23and when they showed me their pitches I was like yeah this is a great pitch for film or tv
17:29but it's not
17:30what we're looking for in the vertical world when I'm casting a project that is like a feature or a
17:36tv show
17:37pretty much what I'm looking for at that point is a famous person to green light the project but we're
17:45not looking for that in verticals we're not looking to get the project greenlit based on a name actor we're
17:51kind of just looking for a look and a vibe of the actors we're not looking to give like you
17:57know half
17:58the budget to one person for their name they also threw in a lot of diversity and at the time
18:03that also
18:04was not something that people were looking to highlight so I just worked on finding well first I talk to
18:11them and I try to find out why they want to get involved and then I give them a rundown
18:14on the process
18:15kind of start to finish and the speed of it I give it I tell them the great things but
18:19I also tell them
18:20the difficult things it's very different dealing with clients in Europe versus clients in Asia versus
18:27clients in North America a lot of stuff takes place on WeChat that we're used to doing via email
18:33just things like that to try to get a sense of if they're actually ready to commit to doing something
18:39like this there's also more money to be made when it comes to volume it's not like you're devoting
18:45you know six months of your life to a project you might be don't like devoting like three weeks of
18:51your life to the project and then the edit process is very time consuming and it can be very stressful
18:59so
19:00I usually have a talk with them to see if they're actually really ready to be partnered with a platform
19:07and then if it feels like they're in it for the right reasons and they would be okay with the
19:12learning curve then I usually help them choose a story or a writer I help them do their pitch deck
19:22and then sometimes I'll sit in on meetings with the platforms with them if they're they need help but
19:27I think that it's definitely been over 25 companies that I've consulted with and I've worked with 17
19:34platforms and so I kind of have a good sense of what each platform is looking for ultimately my goal
19:41with this was I knew that if filmmakers were making verticals that they'd probably be like safer sets
19:49and also in North America it's been quite a struggle for filmmakers to get work as a woman do you
19:55feel
19:55you have certain advantages in show drama industry if yes what are they I'm not sure about advantages I
20:02definitely feel like at the beginning it definitely felt like a lot of what we'd accomplished in
20:09feminism as far as film went seemed to get thrown under the rug a bit with verticals but at the
20:16end of
20:16the day I think it's it's important to remember that the viewership is largely female stories are really
20:23being made for a female audience and oftentimes people will disparage things that are made for women
20:30so I had to sort of reframe it challenges as a woman um yeah like I've definitely worked I've
20:37worked with clients all over the globe and there are definitely like some businessmen that I've worked
20:42with that treated me a little bit like I was stupid I think for being a woman they wanted to
20:48hear
20:49from a man but once they realized I actually knew what I was doing I think that was helpful
20:58um but I think casting is very much a it's usually women obviously are male casting directors but it
21:06does seem to be a largely female um sort of role and I mean I've had to ask for so
21:11many photos of men
21:13without their shirts on and I guess I guess it's creepy coming from a woman I don't know like it
21:19probably would be weirder to for a man to be asking for that stuff I think actually having a female
21:23casting director or a producer is kind of a unaware like women are aware of what might be
21:30uncomfortable for a woman more than a man might be aware of it so I feel like the more women
21:36that
21:37we have on a vertical project kind of above the line the projects tend to feel a bit more considerate
21:43do you think short dramas have created more opportunities for female creators I think so I mean
21:49certainly for writers like I was really fascinated one of my favorite people is Carrie from real short
21:55and like she told us that when she was younger she wrote on Wattpad and she had like books from
22:02her
22:02Wattpad stories were published and I I feel like Wattpad was really a space for female writers
22:08and I mean these werewolf stories I don't think they're coming from men I think they're coming from
22:14young women that were probably writing a lot of these stories when they were like in their teens
22:19right um and it's really given like it's put a dollar value on those ideas right like they're not
22:26just like silly little girl ideas like they are stories people are watching they are there's like to them
22:34which is kind of neat I mean in a lot of ways I guess now that I think about it
22:40the audience being
22:42mostly female and being that verticals are what are keeping being filmmakers working now it's like
22:50in a lot of ways it's women women are keeping the film industry afloat do you think the way female
22:55leads are portrayed in verticals has any issues or areas for improvement I've definitely butted heads
23:02with a lot of companies over like the rape or the violence and sort of you know that the woman
23:11has to be perfect pure and innocent in order to like be an admirable character and then like the
23:16women who aren't like so pure or whatever like they can be beaten or punished but I do think a
23:23lot of
23:23that comes from some of the rules in China about what can be on film and tv and I think
23:30that it translated
23:32over just it's just different culturally with localization of the scripts I feel like that has
23:38been helpful and I feel like people have spoken out but I do have to also remind people sometimes
23:44that what what they're putting in the content of these verticals is not based on what people say they
23:49want to watch it's based on what people are watching so as much as the audience if you were to
23:56do a survey
23:57might say they don't like xyz we still have a like collective human issue in that they're only being put
24:07in
24:07the stories because there are people who want to watch them so for me as a casting director my biggest
24:13concern is not even so much what's on the screen it's how it got there and how the actors are
24:21being
24:21treated like that day on set when that scene is being filmed because for example even if we don't see
24:31full
24:31nudity if we see partial nudity I know that you know that's the edit that's the cut but I also
24:36want
24:37to know that that day on set it was a closed set and that you know everyone felt comfortable and
24:42everything was transparent that the actor wasn't thrown into doing it I would much rather humans
24:50be acting than than be AI or CGI but we have to ask ourselves like hey if humans are going
24:57to be
24:58living out this story how can we make it safer for the humans that are acting it out so there's
25:04a lot
25:05of problems but I feel like you know they're being addressed people are talking about them and I know
25:10intimacy coordinators are almost you can't really have a vertical set here without them now and I feel
25:17like we are definitely going in the right direction there's always going to be work to do I heard there
25:21are
25:21more intimacy coordinators while nowadays on set actually yeah for sure oh 100% if yourself creates
25:30a female lead in verticals what kind of characters or women will you portray I mean I would like to
25:36do
25:36a period like I like period pieces and I've gotten a few that have been like really strong female
25:41characters but I think they can still have romance I don't think that having romance in a story makes
25:46the female any less strong I think there would be less abuse obviously in a story that I were writing
25:53um but I think it could still be sexy it could still be outrageous I've had a few where it
25:59was pretty
25:59outrageous and it had all the slapping and it had all of the sexiness but at the end of the
26:05day
26:06everything always turns out for the protagonist in a vertical right so uh what's the future of short
26:13drama do you think I know that I've been working with networks for about a year I know that a
26:18lot
26:18of networks like broadcast networks have some really cool things coming out um but I don't think it's
26:24going to replace anything I think it's just going to be supplementary to their existing body of work
26:32um I would love to see slightly bigger budget but I do know that you know this model does depend
26:39on
26:39having a smaller budget the best thing about it for me is we don't really have a star system within
26:43it
26:43we can give opportunities it creates more opportunities for people who might not be able
26:50to do a lead role in a network show just yet to get their face out there to build a
26:56fan base and to prove
26:57to the studios that people want to watch them you know I feel like if it will be a thing
27:05if the
27:06verticals are able to just create consistent work and become like a pipeline toward actors being put
27:14in different projects because Hollywood is sort of aging and you know we need new young leads we need
27:22new talent that are already celebrities to get their faces out there and I kind of feel like that's going
27:28to be what verticals will allow
27:29you
27:29you
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