- il y a 2 jours
Judah Ray, founder of Butterfly Studios in Los Angeles, breaks down the real engine behind vertical short dramas, where data, retention, and audience psychology drive every creative decision. From westernising international IP to building high-performing story formulas, he offers a sharp, business-first perspective on why this billion-dollar industry works and where many creators get it wrong.
Interview by WENWEN HAN
Interview by WENWEN HAN
Catégorie
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Art et designTranscription
00:00Could you briefly introduce yourself and your role in short drama industry?
00:04My name is Judah Ray and I am the founder of Butterfly.
00:08That is a production studio in Los Angeles, California, out here in the United States of America.
00:14And my role as a producer and a creative producer is working everything from concept creation,
00:23westernizing, which is, you know, taking IP from international and making it work here in the States.
00:30And to production, delivering everything from light, sound, directors, talent, all the way through completion and deliverables.
00:41And how did you first get involved in short dramas?
00:44Funny enough, I have the industry's been budding here in Los Angeles and I have a lot of friends that
00:50are actors.
00:51And so these actors would always tell me about these short dramas that they were getting auditions for.
00:56And then after a while, a couple of my friends in my neighborhood would call me and be like,
01:00Hey, are you busy right now? I got to do a self-tape. Could you come over and help me
01:05with the self-tape?
01:06So I'd come over and I would work, you know, the scene with these people because I'm also a director.
01:12And I started seeing the subtle nuances and I started seeing the formula, kind of like the engine that drove
01:19these.
01:19And I really, really liked it. I thought it was really cool.
01:22So I dove in head first and started researching first because I'm the type of person who likes to learn
01:29about something before I get involved
01:30and not just jump into it because I think it's lucrative or because I think it's like something that I'm
01:35doing already.
01:36I did a lot of research and watched a ton of them and started really kind of understanding the mechanics
01:42of it.
01:42And then once I did, I started shadowing onto sets and finding producers that were making these.
01:49And through shadowing with producers and directors, I started getting offered jobs.
01:54And from there, you know, it kind of grew into knowing that this industry was a budding industry
02:00and that the mechanisms of storytelling engines were there for what it was.
02:05And I've just been sold ever since and just loving this.
02:09How did you do the research?
02:12Well, of course, you know, downloading the apps, watching the content that was already there.
02:18A lot of, you know, using search engines and reading articles and, you know, doing research over LinkedIn
02:25and looking for the people that were already involved in this.
02:28So I can kind of see who was involved and who the bigger platforms were and what the kind of
02:33the background was.
02:35By following people on LinkedIn, I was able to watch their feeds.
02:39And of course, a lot of people post a lot of information about what's happening, not just here in America,
02:45because I was following people like you, per se.
02:47I would get a lot of information from overseas and international information of what was happening.
02:52And through that information, I was able to see what was happening internationally.
02:56That and like I said, when I was shadowing on set and just, you know, being a helpful hand,
03:02I was lucky enough to do that on some big platforms, productions.
03:08And through that, of course, if you know, a lot of these big platforms will fly people out to America.
03:13And so I'd be on set sitting in Video Village, watching and shadowing everything,
03:19sitting there for a couple of hours.
03:20And next to me would be a representative instead of just being shy.
03:23I would ask questions.
03:24I remember the first time that I really got to meet and talk to an actual representative from an app
03:31overseas.
03:31And I looked over and she did not look happy.
03:35I'm like, hey, you know, what's wrong?
03:36Why aren't you happy?
03:37She's like, oh, this is all wrong.
03:38This is not our look.
03:39And I was like, oh, please tell me more.
03:41What is your look?
03:42And she started describing how the lighting was different from, you know, cinema
03:48and what we do horizontally in vertical and drama.
03:51And I was just infatuated.
03:53And she talked to me for like four hours and told me everything she knew about the craft.
03:57And so, you know, that's really how I did my research was sitting down, focusing, and, of course, asking questions,
04:06meeting people like yourself and, you know, being open, being able to offer myself.
04:14I mean, look how we kind of met through the whole pictures thing.
04:17You know, you just do nice things for people.
04:19You help people out.
04:20And in turn, they see you're a good person, that you're a hard worker.
04:24You take care of what you say you're going to take care of.
04:26And that grew into where I'm at now.
04:30What's your biggest take from?
04:32My biggest take from her was just the difference between what we do in cinema and what is done with
04:40vertical drama.
04:42I mean, the lighting and the way the lighting is is completely different.
04:47In cinema, we're trying to get, you know, real good contrast.
04:51But with this, it's a whole different style of contrast.
04:54It's, you know, flat for a lot of the apps and platforms.
04:57They wanted a nice, flat look.
04:59If they do want contrast, instead of using shadow, they use light.
05:03And they bring things out more using light.
05:05So things like that, she would talk to me about the acting, the delivery of lines,
05:11and how, you know, the difference between how we do it here in America,
05:15you know, style and cinematic and all this.
05:19And, you know, the melodramatic delivery style that was, you know, seen and typically had within this format.
05:25The light is flat, is it?
05:28Because the client's taste or any data to support that?
05:32Because I'm really big about data.
05:34I'm, you know, there's a big argument within the industry right now,
05:38because you've got Hollywood coming into this that's been doing this for,
05:43I'd like to say Hollywood.
05:44You've got the cinematic universe that's horizontal coming into this.
05:48They've been doing their style for so long and honing it and crafting it to be a certain look.
05:55And, you know, if you've ever done commercial or if you've ever done music video, per se,
06:01you know, even if you do cinematic and you know the difference between how you light a horror
06:05and you light a drama or a rom-com, it's two completely different lighting styles.
06:12Every, you know, genre that we do has its own kind of language,
06:18not just within the writing, but within the cinematic universe that you're building for that.
06:23And you will, once again, you wouldn't light a horror film like a rom-com.
06:29So in itself, this genre, which I'm a very big fan of, so I kind of fight for it.
06:36This genre has a way that it looks and a way that it's presented.
06:40Most of the time, there are some apps starting up that are doing, you know, elevated and grounded.
06:46But overall, with the Hollywood look and feel, which we'll just call it that,
06:53we'll label it that for this argument's sake,
06:55coming in and dictating this is the way we feel it should look,
07:00this is the way we think things should be,
07:03they're overlooking the fact that this has been going on for almost a decade.
07:08And within that, the apps and platforms that have been doing this,
07:12they have the data.
07:14They've been watching the algorithm on the back ends of these.
07:18Like, I like to say, it's like the Matrix.
07:20They can read it like the Matrix.
07:21They know what's hot.
07:22They know what, you know, they launch a series,
07:26what hits and then flat bombs or what, you know,
07:29blows up and goes ballistic and gets views and hits and heat and all that good stuff.
07:34CTA, CPI, we'll just kind of leave that to the side.
07:37I'm trying to keep this really grounded and easy to digest.
07:42They've been doing it for years.
07:43So when it comes down to the data behind it, I'm a really big fan.
07:49And I believe strongly in what's being made, what's being made,
07:54the formula behind it, the engines behind it, everything that's going on now.
07:57Do I think that that can be changed?
08:01A, the data will tell us.
08:02We're going to find out because there's a lot of startups
08:04trying to change the system and change everything right now
08:07to their own vision of what it should be.
08:10Or do we stick to the also data-driven analysts that know what sells and what doesn't sell
08:17and then slightly tweak it along the way, like what's been happening so far?
08:21I mean, if you look at where this started and where it is now, it has grown.
08:26It has shaped.
08:28And it's going to continue to shape like that.
08:30There's just two choices right now.
08:32People are either jumping into this and they're going to try and dramatically change it
08:35into what they think it should be and could be.
08:38Or they're going to take the model that's going right now,
08:40the data-driven model that's successful.
08:43You know, the billion industry everyone's talking about right now.
08:48I find it interesting because, you know, just though I kind of cap this,
08:53I find it interesting that it's this big industry that everyone's hyped about,
08:57this billion-dollar industry, and everyone wants to get into it,
09:01but they want to change it and make what they think it should be.
09:03It's like it's a billion-dollar industry as it is.
09:06Yes, we can change it.
09:08Yes, we can see what happens.
09:09But I'd like to do that off of data-driven facts
09:12and not off of, you know, dreams and wishes and fantasies.
09:16That's just how I operate because I like success.
09:20I wish the best to everyone out there that's trying to change it,
09:24that's radically changing things and adding contrast and adding grounded stories.
09:29And, you know, people want to do horror and people want to do, you know,
09:33all these different genres right now.
09:35And I wish them all the best.
09:36And even here, like, we're doing the same thing,
09:40but we're doing within the, you know, formula of what traditionally has been successful.
09:46And just tweaking it a little bit to where the engine's still there,
09:50the formula's still there, how these are shot, how they look is all there.
09:54But then you just add more elements into it to bring it into light of a genre,
09:59to slowly step towards that to see how it'll work.
10:02And we're going to see what happens from there.
10:03Once again, the data will show us, right?
10:06How will you define short dramas?
10:08What do you think is their essence?
10:10That's a great question.
10:11Because there is, there's a debate right now.
10:14And I think I'm one of the people championing it because, you know,
10:17when we talk vertical, first of all, you know,
10:21a lot of people talk vertical format.
10:23They are coming from a place of what they've heard, the hype in the market,
10:28you know, what they want to get into, the headlines they've read.
10:32Vertical can be, I mean,
10:34vertical has been going for a very long time vertical format.
10:37It could be anything from true crime shows, to cooking shows, to,
10:43these are all vertical formatted shows and series.
10:48What we do is within that, right?
10:53We do short dramas, a.k.a. micro dramas, a.k.a. mini dramas, a.k.a. Danju.
11:02You do what's kind of, in a way, that makes it different.
11:07But saying that is the same thing, like saying, once again,
11:09horror is formulaically different than a rom-com.
11:13So, for me, short dramas, which the Short Drama Alliance,
11:17we'll use that as our moniker,
11:19short dramas are a very specific brand of vertical format.
11:26It's, it's an, that makes it different than anything else.
11:30And that's one of the things I champion behind, is that engine, that formula.
11:34And what I mean by that is, you know,
11:35I tell people there's only seven stories to be told.
11:38What makes the difference between those seven stories
11:40and all the different stories that we have that break off of those
11:44are the engines, are the formulas behind them,
11:47are what we inject into that romance, into that horror,
11:52into that story to make it different.
11:54And this isn't, it's anything else.
11:57As much as people think it's just turning a camera sideways,
12:01the engine in it, the, you know,
12:03I'll just run through a couple of the things
12:05that make this different to me, right?
12:07The opening, well, let's start off with the episodes
12:10and the count and the length of episode, right?
12:12Like, we're talking 60 to 90 episodes.
12:14We're talking minute to a minute and a half each an episode, right?
12:19So, the actual length of the episode is really important
12:21within this short micro drama world, right?
12:26Inside of that, you've got different kind of formula that you use.
12:31Like, my favorite is the opening hook slash hit.
12:34You know, it draws them in.
12:36You've got the twist and you've got the cliffhanger.
12:39These are very important elements of what makes short drama different
12:44than any other format.
12:45Like, in a theater, in a wide cinematic horizontal thing that I'm filming,
12:52I've got all this space to the side to utilize.
12:56I've got three-act structure to utilize.
12:58I've got story.
12:59I've got character.
13:00And don't get me wrong, that's, we'll add in a second,
13:03that's within this genre.
13:05But this genre, and don't get me wrong by saying this,
13:09it's just kind of like a little, to make my point,
13:12story and character aren't what drive this,
13:15unlike other mediums.
13:18This medium is driven by, you know, dopamine, by retention.
13:23This medium is driven by CTA and CPI,
13:28by a different mechanic than anything else that I've ever written.
13:32And I've written everything from horror to drama to rom-com to series.
13:37I mean, I've written a lot of stuff.
13:39And this, the way it works, the mechanics of it,
13:44it's what makes me think, will it work with other genres?
13:47Will it work with horror where every minute I'm trying to hit them
13:51with a cliffhanger?
13:52That's a lot of cliffhangers in horror.
13:54That's no time for our buildup.
13:56That's no time for bringing our character, you know,
14:00really into it and going into depth about that character
14:03so you resonate with that character.
14:05You know, we don't really have those mechanics within this.
14:08We're really trying to pull them into each episode,
14:12hit them with something that keeps them, you know,
14:15retained within it,
14:16and then leave them with something that makes them have to watch the next
14:19episode.
14:20It's binge mentality.
14:22So all these things, the way it's lit,
14:26the way the lines are delivered,
14:28the way it's written with these, you know, different mechanics,
14:31the way you talk to any editor within this field,
14:34they're the craziest about it.
14:36They will look you dead in the eye and tell you straight up,
14:40oh, story doesn't matter.
14:41Character doesn't matter.
14:42I cut to CPI.
14:45I cut to CTA.
14:47I will cut in the middle of dialogue if I'm told by the producer to cut
14:51in the middle of dialogue.
14:53And I'll argue with that person that that dialogue shouldn't be cut there,
14:56but I will cut there because that's where the best cliffhanger is seen.
14:59Different mechanics like that to me are what really separate this from other
15:05genres and especially within the vertical world because vertical,
15:10once again,
15:10could be anything.
15:11So when I speak of this,
15:13I speak of it as vertical micro drama.
15:16It's a very specific niche that I deal with.
15:19And it's a niche that I love.
15:20And I do that all the hype and all the industry noise that's happening right
15:25now is directly due to vertical short drama.
15:32What do you think it's their essence?
15:34The essence?
15:35That's kind of funny.
15:36I think their essence is mechanics and formula.
15:41I think their essence is knowing the human psyche and knowing how retention
15:47works.
15:48I think their essence is dopamine hits and serotonin levels.
15:53I think their essence is an echo of the human experience that,
16:00you know,
16:01drives to our most basic animal instincts so far.
16:05You know,
16:06that's what I believe are the essence of these.
16:09And,
16:10you know,
16:10as I would say a commercial and people might,
16:14you know,
16:14dock at me about that,
16:15but that is the essence.
16:16It doesn't mean you can't have a Coca-Cola commercial.
16:19That's beautiful and driving and makes people feel emotional.
16:23Look at Apple.
16:24Apple does commercials that move people used to do commercial that move
16:28people,
16:29you know,
16:29and these are basically in my mind,
16:32the same thing.
16:33Yes.
16:33I care about story and I care about character.
16:36But,
16:36you know,
16:37when I talk to people about writing these,
16:40I tell them,
16:40if you don't care about story and character,
16:42first of all,
16:42what are you even doing in this?
16:44Like,
16:44we all know story and character.
16:46We all know art.
16:47Those are the obvious parts of this.
16:50That's,
16:51that's like thinking about the mechanics of a car because you know what it is
16:54or because you know how to work the radio.
16:56Like,
16:57no,
16:57that's just the aesthetics.
16:58That's just what pulls people in.
17:01And an example,
17:02I could use advertising heat,
17:04right?
17:04So with advertising heat,
17:05to me,
17:06if I'm doing a show about,
17:08say,
17:08the main stars,
17:09the plumber,
17:11what am I going to do heat wise?
17:13Like,
17:13who's going to want to advertise with this app slash platform?
17:16Well,
17:17in America,
17:17we call it Roto-Rooter or like plumber supplies,
17:20you know,
17:20Home Depot.
17:21When we're talking about content,
17:23that's more geared towards like YA.
17:25When you look at stuff like what candy jars doing,
17:29that's the kind of stuff that brings advertising heat,
17:31like poppy soda,
17:32like Coca-Cola,
17:34clothing brands,
17:35music artists,
17:36people like that want to advertise around that.
17:39And I know it sounds weird that I'm talking about this when we're
17:41talking about short drama,
17:43but to me,
17:44there's two things we're trying to do here.
17:46Number one is we're trying to create something that drives people to
17:51the platform,
17:52drives heat and advertising to that platform.
17:55So with call to action,
17:56you know,
17:57we're trying to drive the person that's watching this to actually take
18:01part in the app,
18:02download the app,
18:03go to the app,
18:05pay through the paywall.
18:06I mean,
18:07these are our number one priorities.
18:08Number two,
18:08of course,
18:09it's important.
18:09Our story,
18:10our character,
18:11our art,
18:12you know,
18:13part of that is,
18:14like I said,
18:16bringing that animalistic human nature elements out.
18:21That's of course done through story and character.
18:23So that's still important,
18:25but this is where I think,
18:26you know,
18:27people are starting to put the other before and trying to see a story and
18:30character will drive these.
18:31And I really don't believe so.
18:33I really believe,
18:34you know,
18:35keeping in mind what our goal is here to keep them in the episode,
18:39to retain that attention,
18:41to,
18:42you know,
18:42keep them next episode,
18:44next episode,
18:45binge watching them over to the app are things that a lot of people are
18:49overlooking right now that we got to maintain as an important part of what
18:52we do.
18:53So to me,
18:54the essence is a little different.
18:55Our job is to take what is needed from the platform slash app and produce that in a way,
19:02in a look,
19:02in a style that fits the requirements of what they need.
19:07And that right now,
19:08that's where,
19:09where the essence is at for me.
19:10Do I hope,
19:11and I'll,
19:12I'll piggyback on that.
19:14Do I hope it grows into story and character?
19:16Of course.
19:17Do I hope that all these elements,
19:19you know,
19:20get elevated and or grounded and we can tell better stories with bigger actors and all that kind of stuff?
19:26Yes,
19:27of course I do.
19:28I just want to make sure we,
19:30you know,
19:31maintain the integrity of what's happening now and what drives this industry now and not end up,
19:39you know,
19:39a quibi where everyone thinks this industry failed and it wasn't the industry that failed.
19:43It's the people that came in and injected what they thought the industry should be and forgot what built this,
19:50industry,
19:51what made this industry in this genre.
19:53I think that's very important.
19:54Mention about Krivi.
19:55Why do you think Krivi failed?
19:57Because they focused more on story and character.
20:00And I hate to say that,
20:02but that's not what drives this.
20:04If you want story and character,
20:06especially in this day and age,
20:07you can go watch influencers.
20:09You can go watch.
20:10There's a lot of medium out there that will fulfill your story and character desires.
20:17This is a whole different thing.
20:19This drives a whole different part of the human psyche,
20:23if you ask me.
20:24This is different than any of that.
20:27And I sound like an echo chamber,
20:29but I'm very,
20:29very adamant about remembering what drives this story,
20:33what drives this medium.
20:35And that's,
20:36you know,
20:37it can be changed.
20:38It can be molded.
20:39It can be pushed.
20:40But remembering those,
20:41those,
20:42those things that made this what it is.
20:43My,
20:44my comparison is like horror film.
20:46I'm not going to ever forget that a close shot on a 35.
20:51When the killer is approaching to a swing shot over to the side to reveal the
20:55killer to get a jump shot is what made horror.
20:58I mean,
20:58that's what makes a jump shot in a way,
21:00you know?
21:00So remembering these mechanics,
21:03remembering the rules and learning the rules first is then when we can know how
21:08to break them and why we're breaking them.
21:10How do you choose your topics?
21:12Where do you usually find inspiration?
21:14Driving back into the fact that this to me is about human nature and about
21:19animal instincts.
21:21I kind of look at two different things.
21:24I look at one,
21:25the zeitgeist,
21:26what's driving people right now?
21:28What gets under people's skin?
21:30What do people think is hot?
21:32What do people think isn't hot?
21:34What do people what's trending right now?
21:38As in like,
21:39you know,
21:40what lifestyle ideas are trending and what,
21:44you know,
21:44sometimes glamor and glitz is trending.
21:48Sometimes grunge and underground is trending.
21:51What advertisers want to,
21:53you know,
21:54usually advertise around right now is important to me.
21:57I will say as a producer,
21:59some of it plays into what we can shoot on budget,
22:03what locations we have access to,
22:06you know,
22:07that,
22:07that does play if you're smart and you want to make these and not just talk
22:10about making them.
22:11And once again,
22:12reverting back to how this industry operates and our budget levels and things
22:16like that.
22:17You know,
22:17these are important things to keep in mind and how much you're going to spend
22:21and where you can shoot realistically.
22:24And,
22:24you know,
22:24what can be done within a budget constraint is something I believe,
22:28you know,
22:29helps inspire these a lot.
22:34Also advertising heat,
22:36you know,
22:36what would draw on advertisers going back to the plumber analogy by my main
22:41guys or my main female or whatever,
22:44my,
22:44you know,
22:46antagonist and protagonists are,
22:48are they something,
22:50the character that,
22:51you know,
22:51advertisers are going to want to advertise around the world that I built
22:55with this person,
22:56you know,
22:57that's important to me.
22:58All these things I've been trying to take into consideration when I'm
23:02looking at projects.
23:03And of course,
23:04the number one thing is what is the app and platforms looking for?
23:09Because each app and platform has their kind of own style and their own
23:14genre and their own kind of quadrants that they chase.
23:18So this is a business.
23:20So what quadrants are,
23:21you know,
23:22going right now?
23:22What's hot?
23:23What are they looking for?
23:25Exactly.
23:26Communicating with the platforms and apps and finding out what their mandates
23:30are and what they're kind of looking at will sometimes placate into what
23:34stories we tell.
23:35Once again,
23:36information,
23:37being informed,
23:38knowing what's going on,
23:40not just in the world,
23:41but within the zeitgeist of these platforms and apps.
23:44I think that's all super important when choosing stories where,
23:48you know,
23:49cinematically and widescreen,
23:51it's more,
23:51I'm trying to appeal to,
23:53you know,
23:54character and the human experience at its core and how I can take that
23:58character through an arc.
24:00This is more what works with the platform,
24:04what,
24:05you know,
24:06genres of the platform usually do,
24:08what quadrants do they usually stay within?
24:11And that kind of dictates more with this medium,
24:15what stories I look at or what stories we create as original IP over here.
24:19And then of course,
24:21usually a lot of this is recreated or repurposed IP.
24:25So,
24:26you know,
24:27what IP is hot right now?
24:29What shows are hot right now?
24:31What are the number one trending on the apps,
24:34you know,
24:34and what is the similarities between all those top trending series right now?
24:40You know,
24:41I always tell people there's two ways that you can create.
24:43You can create out of a dream and hope that one day you're going to make this
24:47or sell this or get contracted to do so.
24:51Or if you want to work right now,
24:53what's happening right now?
24:54Pay attention to that,
24:56create something to that.
24:58And yeah,
24:58still have your dreams of building something in the future and have that
25:01locked and loaded and ready to go.
25:03But if you want to work right now,
25:04you should definitely be in tune to the zeitgeist of what's happening and what
25:08everyone's looking for and the mandates that people are requiring.
25:11So you can kind of write towards that and keep those going.
25:14Cause these,
25:15these aren't like screenplays where they take two or three years to write
25:17them for some people,
25:18you know,
25:19people can crack these out in a week.
25:21I know people can crack these out in a couple of days.
25:23So if you look at the timeline,
25:24these are built in,
25:26we're in a feature.
25:27If you write to the zeitgeist,
25:28right,
25:28if we're in the narrative world and I write to the zeitgeist,
25:32I will take,
25:33you know,
25:33we'll take a normal months to a year to write.
25:36Then it's going to take you a couple of years to shop.
25:38It's going to take you a year to make it another year to get the
25:40distribution.
25:41You know,
25:41five years later,
25:42the zeitgeist is completely changed,
25:45but something like this,
25:46I can write one of these in a couple of days.
25:47We can shoot it out in eight to 10 more days.
25:50We can have it in editing for a week and realistically have one of these
25:54made in a month.
25:55That's,
25:56you know,
25:56not much has changed in a month in the zeitgeist from when you first had this
26:00idea to when it's actually made.
26:03So that gives you a clue to what you should be writing towards,
26:08not what you think is going to be happening in the future.
26:10If you want to work right now,
26:11but actually what's selling right now,
26:13because that's going to be sold right now.
26:15It's going to be made right now.
26:16And it's going to come out right now.
26:18And that's right.
26:19What's exciting about this.
26:20We're not taking everyone.
26:22I'll cap with this.
26:23Everyone asked me why I got into this,
26:25because I love narrative storytelling.
26:29I love being on set and working with actors and directors and putting
26:33projects together.
26:34Like I love all that,
26:35but I don't love it.
26:36It takes,
26:36you know,
26:36sometimes a year to five years to 10 years to make a feature.
26:40This gives me a narrative form.
26:42I could do in between that,
26:44that we can do to the zeitgeist.
26:45I speak to today's audience.
26:47I can talk to the now.
26:48I can put stuff out there frequently and be working consistently,
26:53which I think is what really people love about this is that consistent work.
26:57Cause you know,
26:58we can make these relatively fast.
27:01Trying to,
27:01the trend is going to move by around three months because it's very competitive
27:06market.
27:07So maybe these three months,
27:09there are some kind of regret trope three months later,
27:12changing to another trend.
27:13How do you design your characters?
27:16When I get down to my characters,
27:18I'm all about conflict.
27:20I mean,
27:20that's,
27:21I think that still resonates from the cinematic,
27:23you know,
27:24when it comes down to characters,
27:26love is great,
27:27which is another,
27:28you know,
27:28instrument that I use,
27:29you know,
27:30of course,
27:30you know,
27:31you got to have that love within these and that romance,
27:33but you know,
27:34conflict,
27:35conflict is king.
27:36You know,
27:36how can I,
27:37my characters where every character has conflict with every character,
27:41if everyone's just friends and everyone's just getting along and
27:44agreeing with each other and saying the same thing,
27:46it can get really repetitive.
27:49But when people have conflicts,
27:51difference of opinion,
27:52difference of character,
27:53difference of view,
27:54difference of world that they think they're living in,
27:57all these conflicts,
27:58you know,
27:59are some of the first things I do when I'm scripting out one of these.
28:02Of course,
28:02world building is my first thing.
28:03What's the world and why they live in it.
28:05But when I get into the character,
28:07then it's all about conflict.
28:08Why does everybody not work with everybody else?
28:12How is everybody's viewpoints different than everybody else's viewpoints?
28:18And how can I,
28:19and I'll make little charts of how it fights with everyone,
28:22everyone's opinions.
28:23And this person doesn't like that,
28:24but they're on their side about that,
28:26but they're on their side.
28:27That way,
28:27when I get into the story,
28:29it gives you that,
28:30that good tug and pull of character that gets boring and never gets
28:34repetitive.
28:35So conflict is my number one.
28:37Love is my number two.
28:39So I guess,
28:40how do I build my characters?
28:41It's all about emotion from there.
28:43You know,
28:43my emotional standpoint of how each character,
28:46it's emotional dance plays with each other.
28:49You know,
28:50that has to be present with my characters.
28:52And then taking it a step deeper,
28:54of course,
28:55within this medium,
28:56how can I do my cycles and keep my cycles going and keep my story going
29:01and keep it interesting with these characters?
29:05So of course,
29:05you know,
29:06one of the first things I'll do is I'll break,
29:07who's my protagonist,
29:09who's my antagonist,
29:10who are my other characters?
29:12And we'll use say like romance,
29:14toxic romance as,
29:15as our backing,
29:16right?
29:17Well,
29:17each one of these characters trying to break up the love that I'm trying to
29:21build between these two characters and each one of my opposing
29:25characters,
29:25my antagonist,
29:26I'll give them like five things they do that,
29:29you know,
29:30separates them from what the other person's doing and why their reasons are for
29:34doing it to break these two people up.
29:38So now I've got my conflict.
29:39I've got my reason for having enough diversity within my characters,
29:43which is the next thing that I look for to make sure that they keep that
29:48mentality going.
29:49And I know that doesn't happen a lot within this medium.
29:52It's kind of the one way I like to ground these a little bit as I've been
29:55bringing a little bit more diversity into it,
29:59where instead of everybody's exactly the same,
30:02maybe they're all filthy rich,
30:04but they're rich for different reasons of how they came into the money.
30:07Some are corrupt.
30:09Some are not corrupt.
30:10Some made their money easily.
30:12Some worked for their money,
30:13you know,
30:13just to be simple character dynamics,
30:16we can still keep the tropes.
30:17We can still keep the cycles.
30:19We can still keep,
30:19and this is,
30:20this talks about earlier,
30:21what I about,
30:22we can still keep that formula there,
30:24just grounded a tiny bit.
30:27And you know,
30:27that's what I'm the biggest advocate for is a lot of people want to take
30:31this medium and crank it up or ground it really hard and do all these
30:35things.
30:35I'm like,
30:35no,
30:35we just need to just tune it just a little bit.
30:38Just like what's been happening over the last two or three years,
30:42step at a time.
30:44And see,
30:45I will say,
30:46this is what I believe that a lot of people getting into this don't
30:48understand that.
30:49I think the original people that are in this understand is all these people
30:53getting into it,
30:54see a vision of what they believe this can be.
30:56And they're all charging forward towards that where the people that have
30:59been in this have been in this long enough to know that's how you fail.
31:03And that you need to slightly adjust things and watch the algorithms and
31:07see what happens in the response to those little tiny tweaks.
31:12And you know,
31:13what works and what doesn't work.
31:14So you can take it from there.
31:15How do you capture the audience tension in the first 10 seconds?
31:19The hook hit.
31:21That's actually one of my favorite parts of doing this.
31:23I personally use a couple of elements,
31:28either a sound that catches the attention,
31:31a line from someone or something.
31:35It could be a news headline.
31:37So I say something that is jarring that,
31:41you know,
31:41really triggers an emotion within the person that's watching it.
31:45And then of course,
31:46there's just something that's hanging from the last cliffhanger.
31:49If I have the right cliffhanger,
31:51that hit should be something coming off the cliffhanger.
31:54Like if I wind up for a slap in the cliffhanger,
31:57and you know,
31:57it's coming in as soon as that hook hit happens,
32:01that slaps landing.
32:02And you're just like,
32:03Oh,
32:03and it pulls them in.
32:04The hook,
32:05the hit is so important to me because I really believe this is a dance that
32:10we're doing here,
32:11you know,
32:11between the hook hit and the cliffhanger and the twist,
32:16the tension.
32:17I like to bring in the binge formula,
32:19which is you ask a question every episode that gets answered in the next
32:23episode.
32:24Right.
32:25Whether it's a question about the world,
32:27a question about the character,
32:29a question about the plot.
32:31These are the mechanics that I believe drive this,
32:35you know?
32:36So when bringing them in,
32:38that's,
32:38it can resort from anything I'm trying to do within the episode.
32:41But once again,
32:43it's,
32:44it's usually with me,
32:45a sound,
32:46a line or an action that is jarring.
32:50It makes the person go,
32:52Oh my gosh,
32:52I can't believe that just happened.
32:54Mention about the Netflix.
32:55Like you got a question and answer in next episode.
32:59Does it always apply to every episode in short dramas?
33:02Not for everybody.
33:03It's something that I do within my writing.
33:06So,
33:07I mean,
33:07a lot of people like to do it.
33:09It is part of the,
33:10you know,
33:10if you,
33:10if you're ever learning how to write episodic and series,
33:14it's something that you're taught.
33:16It's something really drilled into over at Netflix.
33:19It's,
33:19you know,
33:20it's just that it's part of binge mentality.
33:23These are all mechanics that we use.
33:25These little gears and widgets within our machine to be able to keep that
33:32retention,
33:33right?
33:33That's what it's about.
33:34It's keeping that retention in a way that the viewer just has to keep
33:41watching and watching and watching,
33:43you know,
33:43and I like this.
33:44This is a very easy,
33:45this is the easiest way to explain it to people.
33:48The hook hit brings them in,
33:51right?
33:51The sound,
33:52the line,
33:52the action,
33:53whatever that is.
33:54And even from episode one,
33:55from the jump.
33:56Oh my gosh,
33:57what was that?
33:58Before they can get to was that.
34:01I'm already hitting them with a character.
34:03I'm hitting them with a twist.
34:04I'm hitting them with some kind of action.
34:06I'm hitting them so hard.
34:07They're like,
34:08wow,
34:08wow.
34:09Did you see what just happened?
34:10Before they can get to what happened again,
34:12I might already be hitting with a cliffhanger.
34:14And they're like,
34:15oh gosh,
34:16that was so crazy.
34:17And before they can get to that was,
34:19let alone so crazy,
34:21I'm already hitting them with another hook and hit,
34:23right?
34:24What I'm doing is I'm never giving the viewer a chance to think long enough to
34:30go,
34:30oh,
34:31this is boring.
34:32Oh,
34:32I don't like this character.
34:34Oh man,
34:35this,
34:36this conversation has been so long winded.
34:38I never give them that chance.
34:40I'm constantly hitting them and hitting Gene at that point.
34:44They're so curious to get the answer to that question.
34:47They're so wondering what that hit was.
34:49They're so jarred by that twist.
34:52They never have a chance to breathe,
34:54let alone think about whether they're bored or not.
34:56And so,
34:57yeah,
34:57you know,
34:58these are all the mechanics that we use that I believe.
35:01Yes,
35:02we use mechanics with the narrative and yes,
35:04we do that in cinema,
35:06but this is an exact formula in cinema.
35:09We love a good monologue,
35:11right?
35:11Oh,
35:11give them a great speech and let them talk about something.
35:14Oh man.
35:15So beautiful.
35:16What a shot.
35:17What a scene,
35:17what a dialogue,
35:18what a delivery.
35:20That's not this medium.
35:21I mean,
35:22look at how these are shot.
35:23These are shot in a couple,
35:25you know,
35:25eight days,
35:2610 days,
35:2612 days.
35:28These are shot.
35:30And I've seen this a lot enough where I'm not saying everything shot like this,
35:33but these are shot where are they in frame?
35:37Are they lit correctly?
35:38And did they say the line properly?
35:40Yes,
35:41yes,
35:41yes.
35:42Moving on.
35:43You know,
35:44they're not discussing whether the character would have felt that way or,
35:48Hey,
35:48I don't think I felt my line was right.
35:50We don't do that.
35:51You know,
35:51this is everything down to the way it's shot is down to the mechanics.
35:57It's down to the formula.
35:59So the formula is like maybe two to three seconds before the audience figure out what's happening.
36:06Right.
36:06So they don't think.
36:08It's not even,
36:08it's not about not letting them think.
36:12Because of course they're thinking,
36:13they're processing,
36:15you know,
36:15we're,
36:15our minds are like supercomputers that can process things in a fraction of a second.
36:19You're looking at everything around you.
36:21Your brain is constantly just processing everything in a millisecond.
36:25And that's not,
36:25it's not that they're not thinking we're not going to have a chance to think about whether
36:29they're even,
36:30you know,
36:31what they're watching.
36:32I'm not even joking with this.
36:34Like we're not giving them a chance to process whether they like what they're watching or
36:39they like what they're feeling.
36:41Cause they're just in that rollercoaster ride.
36:43You know,
36:43they're strapped in at that point.
36:45It's why you look up from these after 20 episodes and go,
36:48wait a second,
36:48what just happened?
36:49How did I spend $25?
36:52It's a,
36:53it's,
36:53it's all a formula to me.
36:56That's what makes this genre different than everything else is that formula is that why
37:01we're writing these and what we're producing these for and why they're shot and how they're
37:06cut.
37:07I mean,
37:07all this is the driving force behind these and the store story and character are important.
37:13We don't want to watch characters or stories we don't relate to.
37:16So I say when people argue that point,
37:18it's like,
37:19yeah,
37:19no,
37:19that's the obvious point.
37:21That's the very obvious point.
37:23Story and character have to relate to a zeitgeist into a wide audience.
37:27Yes.
37:28But after that,
37:30why did Quibi fail?
37:33Because that's all they cared about was story and character.
37:36They didn't have the engine we have.
37:38They don't have the formula we have.
37:39I mean,
37:39you only seen it in the zeitgeist within the last couple of years.
37:43And if you're anyone out there that follows any kind of influencer or any kind of show,
37:49influencing used to be everybody I'm here.
37:53Look at this.
37:53Look what's going on.
37:55You know,
37:55live ish,
37:56you know,
37:56personal like that.
37:58Now when you watch these influencers,
38:00you watch these shows on like Snapchat or,
38:02you know,
38:03Instagram or TikTok.
38:05They start off with the middle,
38:08just like we do in cinema.
38:09You know,
38:10Oh man,
38:11look at this crazy place on that.
38:13Isn't it nuts?
38:14Check out how I got here.
38:15And then,
38:15and then they start talking to the story about how they got there and showing you those clips up to
38:20the moment of what they did.
38:21So even that within our zeitgeist have changed how influencers present themselves in their videos and their updates.
38:30You know,
38:30when you leave and look at usually the icons for these videos,
38:34the icon will be a clip from halfway the middle to the end of what you're watching.
38:40You have to clip through the whole entire thing to get to the moment that you want to watch the
38:44clip for anyway.
38:45These are all mechanics that have been built within influencing within,
38:49you know,
38:50that whole world that have made it different from the original influencers and the original content that was being made.
38:59Now it sucks you in more.
39:00You're like,
39:01Oh my gosh,
39:02look where that influencer is.
39:03That looks crazy.
39:04And then they start going to how they got there.
39:06You have to watch the whole video of how they got there to see what the crazy thing is they're
39:10doing.
39:10You know,
39:11that's a formula.
39:12That's a,
39:12that's what we're doing here.
39:14Same thing.
39:15This is a formula now,
39:17not just story and character.
39:19Once again,
39:21it's the difference between horror and a rom-com is the formula.
39:25That's it.
39:25They're both stories of people going through things,
39:28right?
39:29I mean,
39:29basically they're,
39:30they're both human experiences.
39:32Usually they both have a love story within them,
39:35but one is filmed darker.
39:38It's,
39:39you know,
39:39jump shots.
39:40It's still more claustrophobic and closer.
39:42That's the formula for the horror.
39:45And it goes on rom-com.
39:46Everything's bright.
39:47You're getting both the characters in the shot.
39:49You want to see the environment,
39:51how beautiful everything is,
39:52how lovely a date they're on and how nice the restaurant is.
39:56It's a different formula.
39:57And how do you create,
39:59correct it or a story that emotional resonant with the audience?
40:03Going back to those two main things,
40:05which is emotion and zeitgeist.
40:08So I try and,
40:09I try and look at,
40:11okay,
40:11what's hot right now?
40:12What is everyone kind of talking about?
40:15What is the job everybody wants to have or the place everyone wants to be or the person that everyone
40:21looks up to?
40:23And then it doesn't have to be a celebrity,
40:25you know,
40:25like at work,
40:26the CEO,
40:27everyone wants to be the CEO right now.
40:29Everyone wants to be their own self-made millionaire right now.
40:32Everyone wants to be famous right now.
40:34Everyone wants to be an influencer right now.
40:37Everybody wants to be in love right now and have someone in their life right now.
40:40So these are the zeitgeist things that we're looking at,
40:43right?
40:43And then of course the emotions,
40:45the conflict.
40:47What is the conflict there?
40:48And why is my main character,
40:51the main character of this one?
40:53Is there conflict?
40:54What is the reason why I care about this character?
40:57That all boils into it.
41:00And North America vertical dramas are still dominated by serial romance.
41:04And what other type of story do you think can be explored and why?
41:08Well,
41:09that is a two-prong question.
41:11All right.
41:12So let's deal with one prong first,
41:14which is where we're at,
41:15right?
41:16Look at the zeitgeist of America.
41:18Everybody wants to be rich.
41:19Everyone wants to be popular.
41:21Everyone wants to be an influencer.
41:22Everybody wants to be self-made and self-reliant and not have to have a job for the rest of
41:29their lives.
41:29Everyone wants to,
41:31you know,
41:32celebrate and party and forget how hard times are right now.
41:35So we're looking at the zeitgeist of America and kind of what's going on.
41:38So within that and the model and formula of what we have that's popular right now,
41:46of course,
41:47the undercover boss,
41:48the toxic romance,
41:51you know,
41:51the family drama,
41:53pretty much the key core human experience stories that everyone can relate to that drive and pull the heartstrings of,
42:03and I hate to say this,
42:04but the underbelly of what people feel,
42:07the anger,
42:08the animosity,
42:09revenge,
42:11lust,
42:11and love,
42:12and all these animalistic,
42:14instinctual things that we as people want to feel,
42:18want to be a part of,
42:20you know,
42:20we can't help it.
42:21You know,
42:21I hate to say it,
42:22but we drive and thrive off of drama and conflict.
42:29And,
42:29you know,
42:30this is just human nature.
42:32This is psychology 101.
42:34You know,
42:35when you look at these things and you look at the world,
42:38you understand that,
42:39then you can start kind of seeing what works and what doesn't work.
42:42And that's why we've been able to take a lot of popular international IP and westernize it to work in
42:50America,
42:50because in the end,
42:51it's a human experience thing,
42:53right?
42:53So that,
42:55both westernizing IP that's already popular there,
42:58and then,
42:58of course,
42:58writing stuff and new IP that appeals to the American market,
43:02while still shot in the style and way and edited into what's popular and works within the platforms and apps
43:09pre-existing content,
43:10I think is our future right now.
43:14Of course,
43:15we have our own thriving market.
43:17We have a bunch of apps started up,
43:19about 350,
43:20I think 400 to count right now,
43:22which are American apps being built.
43:25And I'm sure those are just the ones we've heard of.
43:27There's sure going to be probably up to a thousand apps in America that start up as everyone tries to
43:31join the gold rush,
43:33as they say.
43:34Now,
43:34there is a lot of confusion on what this is.
43:37You're going to have,
43:38our people are starting to spend a lot of money and put up a lot of money to develop where
43:43this could go.
43:44And what that means is,
43:46you know,
43:46there's a lot of talk of new genres being introduced,
43:49which I know we have a horror kind of lane that this is in right now,
43:53but taking the romance out and going straight horror.
43:56The Latin markets and the novella markets,
43:59which are,
43:59you know,
43:59already soap opera-ish and on that whole lane can all be developed into this.
44:03So there's people that are both doing what I call elevating this,
44:07are trying to go more fantasy,
44:09more sci-fi,
44:10more horror.
44:11And there's people that are trying to ground it at the same time,
44:15not so melodramatic,
44:17more cinematic lighting,
44:19more money on set and prop,
44:23bringing in,
44:23you know,
44:24name talent from the,
44:26you know,
44:27Hollywood cinematic universe into this,
44:30and bringing in the unions and bringing in all that kind of stuff to a couple
44:35hundred of those apps are going to be vertical apps.
44:37They're not going to be micro drama apps or short drama apps.
44:39And then you're going to have another couple of hundred that are going to be,
44:42you know,
44:43that,
44:43but they're not going to understand anything about this or the mechanics or how
44:46it works.
44:48And I mean,
44:49from what I understand,
44:49it's the same thing that happened in China.
44:51You're going to have acquisitions,
44:52you're going to have mergers,
44:53you're going to have people putting their libraries together.
44:55And it's going to dwindle down to a core group of people.
44:59Now what's working right now and what's changing is I don't have to speak to
45:05right now because we all know you're in this industry.
45:08I am same things as it's working right now where it's going.
45:13Our people are starting to spend a lot of money and put up a lot of money to
45:16develop where this could go.
45:19I guess make vertical movies is their idea.
45:23As you can see,
45:25I'm not the biggest hottest person when it comes to talking about this
45:29subject,
45:29because I look at it like,
45:31okay,
45:32so what you think is movies and cinema are dying.
45:35And then if you just turn it on its side and film it for a phone,
45:38all of a sudden,
45:39everyone's going to start watching it again.
45:41And I really don't think that they understand where we're at right now in
45:47the world in content and how it's digested in the new generations that are
45:53coming up,
45:54like,
45:54you know,
45:55alpha and beta.
45:56I don't think they see the truth of what made this industry,
46:00what it is,
46:02you know?
46:02So when it talks to all,
46:04when I talk,
46:05talk about all that kind of stuff,
46:06we'll see.
46:07I like what we're a production company.
46:09If you call us and say,
46:10Hey,
46:10we want this.
46:11We're not going to stop you.
46:12We will produce it for you and make it in the best alley and aspect and
46:17way that you envision it.
46:19When it comes down to our own content,
46:21like I've said before,
46:22we stick to the traditional model.
46:25We just Americanize the story character and make sure it's Westernized
46:28enough.
46:29Even with our IP,
46:30we do the same.
46:31If we do ground it or elevate it,
46:34it is just like a niche,
46:36just a small little bit here and there,
46:38just because,
46:40you know,
46:40we've been doing this for a very long time.
46:42So we know how to produce quality.
46:45Well,
46:46you know,
46:46still maintaining the look and feel.
46:48I,
46:49you know,
46:49that's probably something we should probably talk about for two seconds or
46:52two minutes.
46:52We'll say at the most is I do believe there's a middle ground that you
46:57can bring in the cinematic way of filmmaking into this while still
47:05maintaining the short drama engines and formulas and merge the two in a way
47:11where it's still melodramatic,
47:13but it's,
47:14you know,
47:14quality acting where we use vertical stars and make a whole new star system
47:20out of vertical actors.
47:22And,
47:22you know,
47:22people that only do vertical and that's like their genre and not have to
47:26bring in big name talent just to sell a project and just to get an
47:31audience interested into it and that we can,
47:35you know,
47:35elevate the look and ground the feel while still maintaining that engine.
47:41Just,
47:41you know,
47:42really let actors kind of come in and act instead of just throwing it
47:45together so fast.
47:47I really believe there's a medium,
47:48there's a center that we can find that,
47:50you know,
47:50excels both markets.
47:52And I,
47:53myself with our own IP,
47:54that's what we're interested in exploring.
47:56In China,
47:57there are half male oriented stories and half female oriented stories.
48:01So the male oriented stories didn't work well in China.
48:05It doesn't translate.
48:06So what kind of short dramas do American male audience like to watch?
48:11What do you think?
48:12That's an interesting question because I mean,
48:15let's be,
48:15let's look back at the past of this is a male audience dominated genre.
48:20And then they grew into more of a overwhelming female audience that was
48:27watching.
48:27And that's when they found that it really excelled and blew up.
48:31So finding the male audience and finding that medium between the two is
48:36interesting,
48:36right?
48:37I believe that in the end,
48:39it's all about the human experience and that these core emotions are very
48:45important to relate to,
48:47you know,
48:49both men and women.
48:50And sorry,
48:52everybody else that's included in that spectrum nowadays,
48:55leaning towards if you really just wanted to bring in a male dominated
48:59audience,
48:59to me,
49:00that's kind of obvious.
49:01You got your action,
49:02which I've been starting to see more and more entwined in some micro dramas
49:07and some short dramas,
49:08which is action.
49:10Action,
49:10of course,
49:11always lends itself to a male audience that,
49:13you know,
49:14masculinity.
49:15I hate to say it,
49:16but actual,
49:17you know,
49:17bringing in masculinity to not in a way,
49:20where it's toxic,
49:21but where you've got,
49:22you know,
49:23men's men kind of characters,
49:25I think would really do a more male audience.
49:29I think in the horror genre is going to bring in some more male audience.
49:34And I myself,
49:35that's one thing I am a fan of.
49:37I do believe that the horror genre,
49:39the strictly horror genre will work within the medium.
49:42I think it's about just finessing it right and knowing how to not just constantly beat them over the head
49:48with your cliffhangers and actually be able to utilize the medium and the formula while still
49:53using other,
49:54you know,
49:55small things like jump scares and,
49:57you know,
49:58shock value to be able to bring in that horror element.
50:01So,
50:01yeah,
50:01that's kind of my thoughts on it.
50:04How do you see the future of short dramas?
50:06I think that we're going to find it a very interesting couple of years ahead of us.
50:12And if you've been in the Chinese market,
50:14you're going to know what I'm talking about.
50:15There's going to be an injection of a ton of companies that are going to come in.
50:19A lot of money is going to get spent.
50:21There's a lot of excitement behind it.
50:23There's going to be the pushback period where a lot of those companies start failing.
50:28So everyone thinks everyone's going to fail.
50:30And then there'll be the true captains that survive that whole,
50:35you know,
50:35era.
50:36I think there'll be mergers and acquisitions in between,
50:40you know,
50:41international companies and American companies and American companies and American
50:44companies till kind of smaller and to just a few companies are dominating it.
50:48Same thing that happened in China.
50:50The big question is what's going to happen when the horizontal narrative industry,
50:57quote unquote,
50:57what Hollywood comes into it and what they're going to try and do.
51:02My personal feelings are there will be some winners in that.
51:05There are going to be some people that changed this industry and really rock it and come out
51:08with things that we never even expected and genres and form and titles and characters.
51:14I was just going to like revolutionize this.
51:17I think there'll be a lot of people that lose a lot of money that,
51:20because they don't understand what we're doing here.
51:22So there'll be a lot of money lost.
51:24There's a little bit of a fear that they're going to come in and change things and kind
51:29of having the best way to say this is,
51:31and I'm not hating,
51:31it's my industry.
51:32I'm part of it.
51:33And I always will be a part of it is,
51:35you know,
51:36and I'm using the word Hollywood as an industry,
51:38you know,
51:39kind of blanket is that,
51:41you know,
51:42there,
51:42it was a billion dollar entertainment industry that got tanked.
51:45And it tanked for a number of reasons that I've watched personally over the last 30 years,
51:50being a part of entertainment.
51:52And if you ask me those same reasons that industry tanked for some,
51:59this is beyond me.
52:00I can't even figure out why these people think they can bring it into short drama and do the
52:07same exact thing and not tank this industry.
52:12And don't get me wrong.
52:13I believe we should have stars,
52:15but I think they should be vertical micro drama,
52:17short drama stars.
52:18And we don't need Brad Pitt in the short drama world.
52:21You know,
52:22it's just it budget wise.
52:24It just doesn't work.
52:25Yes.
52:26I do believe there should be unions in our,
52:28in our business,
52:29but they should be vertical unions.
52:32We don't need SAG and we don't need I yet seeing those companies coming in because what
52:37no one understands is what I see on the production side.
52:40Cause I've talked with the apps and platforms is what these really cost.
52:44You know,
52:44people go,
52:45Oh,
52:45they're 150,
52:46200,
52:47thousand,
52:48250,
52:49300 right now.
52:50U S they're so small budget.
52:52They're not looking at this side of this,
52:54it's the advertising campaigns that go behind these things and how that works.
52:58It's their high budget productions when you put the whole thing together.
53:01So when you start putting more weight and more production costs on the front end,
53:07you're taking away from that marketing backend.
53:09That's just how it works in business.
53:11I want this to blow up and be everything it can be.
53:14But from my understanding,
53:15from the people that have been doing this for about a decade now,
53:18that formula is not going to work in this world.
53:21That's just from what I've heard.
53:23I'm an echo chamber.
53:24It's not my opinion.
53:25I once again would love to see all kinds of great things happen.
53:29I'm just looking at what's been told so far.
53:31And from that echo chamber,
53:33from different apps and platforms,
53:34from representatives that told me the budgets you Americans are talking about,
53:39we don't see how it's going to be possible to keep,
53:42you know,
53:42everything running fluently and develop these as fast and as quickly and as many
53:47as you need to keep the platforms running with the type of advertising that you need behind it
53:52to keep the heat going so that you get the hits,
53:55blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
53:56You both hope, right?
53:57Like, I like money.
53:58I like getting paid more.
53:59Don't get me wrong.
54:00But if short dramas start taking a year to make and, you know,
54:07there's just, once again, you're not hitting the zeitgeist.
54:11You're not hitting that window of when the opportunity is because your relevancy is to
54:16whatever it's the, you know,
54:18trope or the time that you're talking to.
54:22You're ruining all these parts of this formula.
54:24So will it work without those?
54:26Will chocolate chip cookies still work without the sugar in them?
54:30Can you substitute honey?
54:31I don't know.
54:31We'll find out.
54:32Will it still be a good cookie?
54:33And that's what I tune myself into is what's happening right now.
54:37What's hot right now?
54:38What sells right now?
54:40Because once again, I'll make one of these in a month.
54:42And if it changes in a month, guess what?
54:44I'll write one in that month to talk to that zeitgeist.
54:47So I don't really,
54:49I don't really have a problem with this doing and I wish everybody the best.
54:52That is getting into this.
54:53Like God, God bless you.
54:55But for me, you know, I'm a business here.
54:58Butterfly is a production company that facilitates what platforms and apps need
55:02for their current libraries to be able to put on right now.
55:07And, you know, CTA and CPI the hell out of them and get people to go past
55:12paywalls and come to their apps and platforms.
55:15That's my job.
55:16Do you have anything else you want to share?
55:18I guess it's the last thing I would say is just be bold,
55:21be daring, you know, just because I write to the zeitgeist doesn't mean
55:25that I don't push for a tomorrow where character story and genre can change
55:30and all that stuff matters.
55:32Especially if you're in America, I would say, do your research.
55:36Just know why this was made and how it was made and have respect for that.
55:42Because especially if you're dealing with international people, when you come in and
55:47you just blow, you know, your mouth about what you think it should be and how everything,
55:52you know, is bad the way it is and all that stuff, you're disrespecting people that built
55:56this, that, you know, worked hard to grind and out there to, you know, build something
56:03that you're becoming a part of and that you want to develop into something else.
56:07So just remember that, know that, have respect for that, know what you're talking about when
56:12you're talking to people that have been doing this for years now about what you think and
56:17feel, you know, know the rules and then have fun breaking them, but know the rules.
56:23So if you're watching this, you're already in the right lane, you know, you're already
56:26going down the right path, you're learning, you want to get information, you're doing
56:31the right thing.
56:32So I'm already talking to the right people here, but keep on this path, keep as a part
56:37of the Short Drama Alliance, get to know people, network, find information, know your craft.
56:44And I'd love to work, meet and be on set with all of you someday.
56:50Good luck with your projects and your endeavors.
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