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The Indian national education system faces a deepening crisis following the cancellation of the medical entrance examination due to paper leaks.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savan.
00:04Is our education system so broken now that the government may need to rope in the armed forces
00:10to conduct the neat UG entrance examination and ensure that this very important entrance examination
00:18taken by close to 23 lakh students is foolproof?
00:22Are we to understand that in the land of knowledge, in the land of Nalanda University,
00:29the system is so broken that neither the national testing agency nor academics,
00:35either the police or the administration can be trusted to conduct leak-proof transparent examination
00:43for the neat UG candidates? Is this how the biggest examination is to be held?
00:50This is a big red flag and it's time for heads to roll and the system to be overhauled.
00:57There was a high-level meeting chaired by Defence Minister Rajnath Singh,
01:01Education Minister Dharmendra Pradhan, National Testing Agency officials,
01:05officials from the Ministry of Education, they were all there.
01:08And it was decided that the neat UG re-examination on the 21st,
01:13the armed forces may need to be roped in for logistics coordination,
01:17to secure transportation including by air to distant lands and to meet any contingency.
01:25India's armed forces protect our borders.
01:28They are involved in counter-terror operations and now they are likely to be roped in
01:33even to conduct an entrance examination so that papers don't get leaked or stolen.
01:38This is a huge credibility crisis in the education system and sadly,
01:43it is no longer limited to just one neat entrance examination that incidentally has been cancelled
01:49even earlier, maybe partially or in another form completely in 2015.
01:55Even the Central Board of Secondary Education,
01:59it's facing very serious allegations of its handling of student evaluation system,
02:06examination evaluation system.
02:08So, Leader of Opposition in Lok Sabhar and Congress Party MP Rahul Gandhi,
02:12he accused the board of deliberately lowering the technical standards
02:17to award a major digitisation contract to a private company.
02:23In a sharp attack on the centre and the Central Board of Secondary Education,
02:28Rahul Gandhi alleged that tender conditions for the on-screen marking system,
02:33these conditions were repeatedly diluted after earlier bidding rounds failed.
02:40He's alleged that this was being done to favour one particular company.
02:44Rahul Gandhi and the Congress Party claim requirements related to scanning resolution,
02:50for example, they were watered down.
02:53Mandatory robotic scanners, that condition was dropped.
02:57Software certification standards were lowered.
03:00Even the penalty clause linked to answer sheet errors, they were removed.
03:06Now, why is one particular company being favoured is the question that the Congress Party is asking.
03:13Rahul Gandhi claimed that despite qualifying in the final round,
03:17a prestigious company like the TCS, it lost the contract
03:21and a company which he described as having a perfect track record of failure was selected.
03:28The opposition is demanding answers and an investigation.
03:33In just a short while from now, the Vice-Chancellor of Delhi University,
03:36Professor Yogesh Singh, joins me on India First to talk about the crisis of confidence
03:41in our education system.
03:43And this is, remember, the land of universities like Nalanda.
03:48But at 8.30pm, we turn to a positive story.
03:52One of India's most ambitious strategic programs, the 5th generation stealth fighter jet project.
03:58And this is part of Atmanirbhar Bharat.
04:01The 5th generation fighter jet is to be made in India.
04:05Three private Indian consortiums and companies,
04:08they've been shortlisted for this process to manufacture the AMCA,
04:14Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft,
04:17India's first indigenous 5th generation stealth fighter jet.
04:22What is India's AMCA project, the FGFA?
04:25We'll do a quick SWOT analysis.
04:28The strengths, the weaknesses, the opportunities and the threats ahead.
04:32Aviation experts join us on the broadcast.
04:35But that's coming up at 8.30pm tonight.
04:37But on India First, because remember,
04:39our students, our future generation,
04:42they are our assets.
04:45The NEET controversy has now become much bigger than just one paper leak.
04:50It's triggered a nationwide debate over whether India's examination system
04:54can still guarantee fairness, transparency and credibility
04:59for lakhs of students who take these examinations.
05:02Today, even the Supreme Court of India,
05:04in one of its sharpest observations yet,
05:07warned that explanations and excuses are not enough
05:11when the future of the country,
05:13when the future of young students is at stake.
05:15The Supreme Court called this episode
05:17traumatic for students and their families
05:19and questioned how the leak happened
05:21despite monitoring systems being put in place.
05:25Pointedly referred to the Union Public Services examination,
05:29the UPSC examinations.
05:32Asked, if that model is in place,
05:35why are stronger safeguards missing in the NEET examinations?
05:40And in what may be the clearest indication yet
05:43of the scale of concern within the Narendra Modi government,
05:46the centre is now considering involving the Indian Army
05:49and the Indian Air Force in transporting
05:51NEET question papers for re-exam.
05:53That's right.
05:54Military logistics may now have to be used
05:56to secure a national entrance examination.
05:59Education Minister Dharmendra Pradhan,
06:01he's admitted what happened is unfortunate.
06:05He says the government is taking full responsibility.
06:07But what does that mean?
06:09And the larger question that remains unanswered,
06:11how did the system fail
06:13despite multiple layers of checks, balances and oversight?
06:18Who will be held accountable?
06:20And can confidence in the examination system be restored
06:23before this round, that's the next round,
06:2621st June re-examination,
06:28and ensure something like this
06:30never happens again?
06:39The NEET controversy is no longer just about a paper leak.
06:43It is now about a deepening crisis of credibility
06:47in India's examination system.
06:50After the May 3rd exam was scrapped due to irregularities,
06:53the future of nearly 23 lakh students was thrown into uncertainty.
06:59With every new revelation,
07:01confidence in the National Testing Agency continues to erode.
07:06And now, in perhaps the clearest admission yet of the scale of the crisis,
07:11the government is considering bringing in the Indian Air Force
07:14to transport question papers.
07:16The proposal was discussed at a high-level meeting
07:19between Education Minister Dharmeda Pradhan
07:21and Defence Minister Rajnath Singh.
07:24Reports say the IAF will be responsible
07:27for transporting the NEET-UG question papers
07:30from the printing press to exam destinations across the country.
07:33A staggering indictment of the system
07:35that was supposed to protect students in the first place.
07:39Today, the Supreme Court made it clear
07:41explanations alone will no longer suffice.
07:44We cannot disappoint our youngsters this way.
07:47It is very traumatic for not just the students,
07:49but their families as well,
07:51said the Apex Court as it heard the paper leak matter.
07:55The National Testing Agency was asked
07:57how did this failure occur despite monitoring mechanisms in place.
08:00The Supreme Court remarked that the real problem
08:03won't stop till actual accountability arises.
08:06Drawing a comparison with the UPSC,
08:08the court observed that such incidents
08:10have never occurred in the country's
08:12Premier Civil Services examination
08:13and suggested that lessons need to be learned from its systems.
08:18The centre has been ordered to file an affidavit in six weeks.
08:24Education Minister Dharmeda Pradhan,
08:26speaking to India today,
08:27admitted that the situation was unfortunate
08:29and said the government was taking responsibility.
08:32He promised tighter protocols,
08:35enhanced coordination between centre and states
08:37and stronger security measures
08:39ahead of the June 21 re-exam.
09:02But even as the centre promises,
09:05tighter safeguards and stronger coordination,
09:07serious questions remain over how the breach happened
09:11despite existing monitoring mechanisms.
09:13Bureau Report, India Today.
09:18And joining me now on this major crisis of confidence
09:21in the education system and evaluation system
09:24is the Vice-Chancellor of Delhi University,
09:26Professor Yogesh Singh.
09:28Professor, welcome.
09:30Why has the situation in your view, sir,
09:32come to such a pass
09:33that the armed forces may need to be roped in
09:36to ensure smooth conduct of an entrance examination?
09:39Sir, does this not indicate total collapse of confidence
09:43that even the government may have
09:45in the education system and those running it?
09:49What happened in the last month
09:51was a very unfortunate incident.
09:54It should not have happened, but it happened.
09:57Now, everywhere there is trust deficit.
10:00When Government of India is deciding to involve
10:02Air Force or they are taking other means,
10:06they just want to work on this trust deficit.
10:11But, you know, it is our responsibility
10:12to conduct examination in a fair way.
10:16On 21st June, now, new dates have already announced.
10:20My appeal to all students that,
10:22please focus on your studies.
10:26Examination is very important.
10:27Based on your performance, you will get a seat.
10:30There is no point now focusing in the past.
10:33What has happened?
10:34It has happened.
10:35It should not have happened.
10:37So, please, please, please,
10:41don't believe in rumours.
10:43Government is taking all possible steps
10:45for a fair examination
10:48and this will happen on 21st June.
10:50But, sir, this is not the first time it's happening.
10:53Is there an education mafia,
10:55an examination mafia
10:57that's operating in our country
10:58from coaching centres to paper leagues?
11:00The entire system is either unable
11:04or unwilling to crack down on this mafia
11:08because it's not just one paper leak.
11:10Remember that very famous Ian Fleming line, sir,
11:13in that James Bond film?
11:15Once, it's happenstance.
11:17Twice, it's coincidence.
11:18Third time, it's enemy action.
11:20And we've had more than three paper leaks, sir.
11:24You are right
11:26because there's huge money
11:28is involved in the whole process.
11:30That's why we have experienced that
11:32like liquor mafia and drug mafia,
11:34we have education mafia also.
11:36So, they study our system
11:39and try to breach at every stage.
11:42But, unfortunately, what happened this time?
11:45We have found that teachers are involved.
11:48This is a shameful incident.
11:51Nobody could have, would have imagined
11:54that this will happen in our field.
11:56Teachers are respected.
11:58Those who are in this profession,
12:00they can't do it,
12:01but they have done it.
12:02That's why it's an issue of a shame
12:06for the teaching fraternity.
12:09But, yes, government is taking all possible steps.
12:12I am very hopeful that
12:13we will be able to
12:18do something very, very significantly
12:20for this issue.
12:23But, examinations, yes,
12:25when you were student,
12:27situations were different.
12:28Now, after 20 years,
12:33see the size,
12:34see the challenges,
12:36see the technology.
12:38Technology has many advantages,
12:39but, you know,
12:41there is flip side of the technology also.
12:43People, bad people are taking advantage.
12:45So, we have to equip ourselves very well
12:47in order to address such issues.
12:50So, don't worry.
12:52This will not happen again.
12:55So, and it's not just
12:56NEET UG exam,
12:57leader of opposition, Rahul Gandhi.
12:59I'm sure you've heard him.
13:01He's leveled very serious charges
13:02alleging complicity,
13:05alleging rules were watered down
13:07in the Central Board of Secondary Education
13:09examination, evaluation,
13:10apparently or allegedly to favor
13:12one particular firm.
13:15Sir, should that not merit
13:16an independent investigation?
13:18After all,
13:19it again impacts lives
13:20of so many Class 12 students
13:22who would be aspiring to joining,
13:24you know,
13:25universities like the Dell University?
13:28You know,
13:29first of all,
13:30I don't want to comment on
13:31the statement of leader of opposition.
13:33And second is,
13:34I don't have the idea
13:36what has happened inside.
13:38So, without knowledge,
13:41I should not say anything about it.
13:43But largely,
13:44yes,
13:45if you are talking about the CVSC,
13:48students are not satisfied
13:50with the results.
13:51There are
13:53the issues related
13:54to the quality of scanning also.
13:57These are the issues.
13:58But this technology
13:59is quite stable technology.
14:01Many universities
14:01have practiced in our country.
14:03But when this was implemented,
14:06on a larger scale,
14:08these issues have emerged.
14:10Let us see what happens.
14:12They will take all possible steps.
14:13But I don't have any idea
14:14about the company
14:16who has done it.
14:17And so I...
14:18Okay.
14:19Sir,
14:19as the Vice Chancellor
14:21of Delhi University,
14:22what is your message
14:23to students
14:24who will either be taking
14:25the NEET-UG re-examination,
14:28those who have taken
14:30the Class 12 exams
14:31are not satisfied
14:32their faith shaken
14:34in the examination system,
14:35repeated paper leaks
14:36or issues being raised
14:37about evaluation,
14:38what would you tell
14:39these students, sir?
14:41Yes.
14:42My dear students,
14:45our education system
14:46is very ancient.
14:49It has produced
14:51the quality students.
14:53Our students are doing
14:54very well in all walks of life.
14:56Be faith in the system.
14:57Have faith in the system.
15:00These incidents,
15:01yes,
15:02they have...
15:03They should not have happened,
15:05but now
15:05there is a issue
15:07of trust deficit.
15:08But don't worry,
15:10have faith in everything.
15:12This will not happen again.
15:14Government will take
15:15all possible steps,
15:17strict actions.
15:18And the police
15:19and the other forces
15:21should also take
15:23exemplary steps,
15:24steps to eradicate
15:26this problem
15:27of the education mafia.
15:29And the time
15:30has come to rethink
15:31about these
15:35entrance tests also
15:36because they are
15:37so difficult at times
15:39that students
15:39have no option
15:40but to go for coaching.
15:41If we want to,
15:43if we want to address
15:45the issue of coaching also,
15:46then this difficulty level
15:48of the question papers
15:50should be revisited.
15:52Why do we need
15:54such a difficult paper?
15:55Absolutely.
15:56It has become
15:57a filtration paper
15:58rather than
15:58a selection paper.
15:59Process of elimination.
16:00So,
16:00this also education,
16:02the teachers
16:03who are involved
16:04in the process,
16:05they should think about it.
16:07A student
16:07who is doing good
16:08at plus two
16:09should do good
16:10in entrance test also
16:13without going
16:14to any coaching classes.
16:15But if you want,
16:18if you ask
16:20difficult questions,
16:21very specific questions,
16:22hard questions,
16:23then students
16:23have no option
16:24but to go for coaching classes.
16:26Time has come
16:26to revisit this aspect also.
16:29Very important point
16:30you make, sir.
16:30So,
16:30are you saying
16:31we need to relook
16:32our entrance examinations,
16:34our evaluation system?
16:36I had recently interviewed
16:37the Vice Chancellor
16:37of Nalanda University
16:39and he gave me
16:41the impression
16:41that the focus
16:42was more on students
16:45understanding an aspect,
16:47improving their comprehension
16:48and that is why
16:49verbal examinations
16:51and discussions
16:52had become
16:53very important.
16:54Going back
16:55to that ancient
16:56knowledge system
16:57of Shruti and Smriti.
16:59Does that work
17:00for the current scenario?
17:02Because right now
17:03coaching centers
17:04are virtually teaching
17:05students how to game
17:06the system.
17:08That is very true.
17:09But, you know,
17:10in multiple choice
17:11question system,
17:12it is very,
17:13very difficult
17:14to implement this.
17:15In multiple choice,
17:18the advantage is that
17:20evaluation is very fair.
17:22If your answer is correct,
17:24you will get marks.
17:25If your answer is not correct,
17:26you will not get marks.
17:28But, if we
17:29attempt other things,
17:31then subjectivity comes.
17:33So, that is why
17:33not easy
17:34for a large country now.
17:36But,
17:39we should
17:40find other ways
17:42and means
17:42and experiment
17:43also.
17:44But, right now,
17:46because in the war
17:47type situation,
17:49we can't find
17:50solutions.
17:52Oh, absolutely.
17:53Sir, for joining me here
17:54on this India First
17:55special broadcast,
17:57Professor Yogesh Singh,
17:58Vice-Chancellor
17:58of Delhi University.
17:59Many thanks.
18:00I now want to throw it
18:01open for a wider
18:02discussion.
18:03I want to bring into
18:03this conversation
18:04Professor Chandrabhushan Sharma,
18:07Vice-Chancellor
18:07of the Virnoba
18:09Bhave University.
18:10Yasir Vardhan Azad
18:11is former
18:11Special Director
18:12of the Intelligence Bureau.
18:14Charu Pragya
18:14is the National
18:15Spokesperson
18:16of the Bharatiya
18:17Janta Party.
18:17But, I first want
18:18to cut across
18:19and bring into
18:20this conversation
18:20Ananya Sharma,
18:23a neat
18:23UG aspirant.
18:25Ananya,
18:25welcome.
18:26Your thoughts
18:27on the armed forces
18:28now being roped in
18:30to ensure
18:31free and fair
18:32re-examination
18:33on the 21st.
18:35What is going
18:36through your mind,
18:37Ananya?
18:38Honestly,
18:39it is a very
18:39emotionally and
18:40mentally difficult
18:41time for all of us.
18:42We have strategized
18:43our performance
18:44and our preparation
18:46for the exam
18:46on 3rd May
18:47and now we have
18:48to modify it
18:48for 21st June.
18:49So, that is
18:50obviously difficult.
18:51As for the
18:52armed forces
18:53being roped in,
18:54I cannot comment
18:54on it because
18:55this is the first
18:56time it's happening.
18:56It's new for us
18:57as well.
18:58So, we'll have
18:59to wait and see
19:00what happens.
19:01Okay.
19:02Yasir Vardhan Azad,
19:03after repeated
19:04leaks and not
19:05just a neat
19:06entrance examination,
19:07is this an admission
19:08that the education
19:09system is leaking
19:10like a sieve?
19:11There are corrupt
19:12elements who don't
19:13fear the law at all
19:14and the government
19:15is now forced
19:16to trust only
19:17the armed forces
19:18to send out
19:19that message
19:20of trust
19:21and transparency.
19:23Absolutely.
19:24You know,
19:24bringing in
19:25the armed forces,
19:26the intelligence
19:26agencies and
19:27the entire
19:28state police,
19:29DMs and the
19:30SPs means
19:31that government
19:32considers this now
19:33as a national
19:33credibility problem
19:35and I totally agree.
19:36this is the kind
19:37of attention
19:37which should be
19:38paid.
19:38But I think
19:40the most important
19:41blame goes
19:42with the NEAT
19:43organization,
19:44which is a third
19:44rate organization,
19:46which came,
19:47you know,
19:47from 2017
19:48when it was set up,
19:49there was enough
19:50time to,
19:51you know,
19:52commit all this,
19:52whether it was
19:53a computer-based
19:54test or whether
19:55it was organizing
19:56exams in a particular
19:57manner,
19:57but they have
19:58completely failed.
20:002024,
20:01you know,
20:01there were three
20:01parts and one
20:02had to learn
20:03from that.
20:04One was the
20:04paper leak in
20:05Bihar,
20:06which took place
20:07in which the
20:07economic offenses
20:08doing caught
20:09the gangster,
20:10the Sandeep
20:11Mukher and a few
20:12other people.
20:13There was this
20:14problem of
20:14grace-mark
20:15controversy to
20:16around 1,500
20:17people and
20:18there was also
20:20the problem
20:22of specialized
20:23teaching centers,
20:25almost 600
20:26people getting
20:26full scores.
20:27Now,
20:28the Radha
20:29Krishnan
20:29committee came
20:30in and gave
20:31the recommendations.
20:32The DGNTA
20:33said that we
20:34do not have
20:35the capacity
20:36for a computer-based
20:38test for more
20:39than 2.5
20:40lakhs people
20:41and the proposal
20:43has been sent
20:43to the education
20:44ministry.
20:45In two years,
20:46the secretaries
20:47of the education
20:47ministry of the
20:49health,
20:50the minister
20:50did not decide
20:51on anything
20:52and now they
20:53are saying
20:54that for 2027
20:55they will again
20:56do it.
20:57The question
20:59is,
20:59there are
21:01still gaps.
21:03The question
21:03is,
21:04if the leaks
21:04occur before
21:06you transfer
21:07through the
21:08Air Force
21:08planes by
21:09the setters,
21:10by the printers
21:12within and by
21:13the various
21:14other people,
21:15then you can't
21:16do anything
21:16about that.
21:17And secondly,
21:19the education
21:20mafia has
21:20really gamed
21:21the system.
21:22And therefore,
21:23anything you
21:24have at
21:24anywhere,
21:25they will be
21:25there.
21:26If a
21:26computer-based
21:27test,
21:27they'll be
21:28hacking because
21:29their lives
21:29depend on
21:30it and
21:30they are
21:30complete
21:31experts.
21:32No,
21:32but then the
21:33state has
21:33to be a
21:34step ahead
21:34and the
21:35punishment
21:35should be
21:35so exemplary
21:36that they
21:37dare not
21:37do it,
21:38impose such
21:39costs on
21:39them.
21:40Professor
21:40Sharma,
21:41according to
21:42the government's
21:42reply in
21:43parliament in
21:442024,
21:45the national
21:46testing agency
21:47functions only
21:47with 22
21:48employees on
21:49deputation,
21:5038 contract
21:52staff,
21:53contractual
21:53staff and
21:54138 outsourced
21:55workers.
21:56Sir,
21:57you're,
21:58you know,
21:59as an
21:59academic,
21:59as a
22:00vice
22:00chancellor,
22:01given this
22:01heavy dependence
22:02on outsourced
22:03manpower,
22:04can the
22:05agency or
22:05is the
22:06agency structurally
22:07equipped to
22:08conduct an
22:09examination for
22:0922, 23
22:10lakh need
22:11candidates?
22:16Sir,
22:16apologies,
22:17I think
22:17you're on
22:17mute,
22:18sir,
22:18request you
22:18to unmute
22:18yourself.
22:20Gaurav,
22:20we need to
22:21understand that
22:22the NTA
22:23was not
22:23created to
22:24hold,
22:26conduct such
22:26big paper
22:27pencil test.
22:28I am privy to
22:29the discussion.
22:29I was the
22:30chairman of the
22:31Open School of
22:31India when this
22:32whole discussion
22:33took place in
22:34the ministry
22:35and we had
22:37agreed to
22:38this organization
22:39that this will
22:40only conduct
22:40online
22:41tests.
22:42Suddenly at a
22:43later stage,
22:44this responsibility
22:45was given to
22:46NTA.
22:47There are
22:48structural problems
22:49which we need
22:49to understand.
22:51The whole
22:51team at the
22:53MHRD changed
22:54by the time
22:55NTA was given
22:55this responsibility.
22:57Those who were
22:58taking the
22:58decision of
22:59establishing NTA
23:00are no more
23:02in the MHRD.
23:03Quote me one
23:04name who was
23:05privy to the
23:05discussion of
23:06establishing NTA.
23:08So the first
23:09main problem is
23:10this organization
23:10was not
23:11established to
23:12conduct paper
23:13pencil tests on
23:14this scale.
23:15Second, the
23:16structure of the
23:17organization is
23:18bureaucratic.
23:19Tell me one
23:19person who has
23:20handled major
23:21exams of the
23:22country.
23:23I have been
23:23chairman of the
23:24Open School of
23:24India and I
23:26know the
23:26nuances.
23:27My paper was
23:28leaked in West
23:29Bengal.
23:29There was big
23:30hue and cry.
23:31Then the
23:31court called
23:32me and then I
23:34disclosed that
23:35the question paper
23:35in Bengal was
23:37not repeated
23:38anywhere other
23:39than Kerala,
23:40even the
23:40neighboring state.
23:41You need to
23:42have professionals
23:43who have
23:44conducted such
23:46big exams.
23:46You had
23:47CBSC doing
23:48it.
23:49You had
23:49IIT doing
23:50these exams,
23:51but they are
23:52not involved.
23:52You have a
23:53bureaucratic
23:54setup to
23:54conduct exams
23:55who don't
23:56understand exams.
23:57Now, the
23:58whole issue of
23:59this army and
24:00air force
24:01involving is
24:02made such a
24:02big hype as
24:03if we are
24:04fighting a
24:04battle.
24:05We are
24:05not fighting
24:06a battle.
24:06I remember
24:07when I was
24:08conducting exam
24:09for the
24:09DLA exam,
24:10the question
24:11paper did
24:11not reach
24:12Ladakh.
24:12I took
24:13help of
24:14the air
24:15force and
24:16got my
24:16question sent.
24:17That happens.
24:18Why are you
24:18making such a
24:19big hype?
24:20You are
24:21destroying the
24:22reputation of
24:23a very, very
24:24prestigious
24:24institution.
24:25Sir, I am
24:26not destroying
24:26it.
24:26The actions of
24:27these people
24:28who have done
24:28this.
24:28I am
24:29mentioning all
24:30those who
24:30are speaking
24:30about it.
24:31No, but
24:31it has been
24:32destroyed by
24:33those who
24:33indulged in
24:34this.
24:34in this
24:35action and
24:36those who
24:37refuse to
24:37take action
24:38against this
24:38mafia or
24:39fail to
24:39take proper
24:40action.
24:41I will
24:42come to
24:42that,
24:42Gaurav.
24:432024, I
24:44was integral
24:45part of the
24:45whole debate
24:46on the
24:46leak.
24:49Go to
24:50your archives
24:51and look at
24:51my stand.
24:53See, 2024,
24:54you had been
24:56reprimanded by
24:56the Supreme
24:57Court.
24:58What lesson
24:58have you
24:58learned?
24:59Nothing.
25:0026, this
25:00happens.
25:01Wait a minute,
25:0126, this
25:02happens.
25:03Now, this
25:03has revealed
25:04that even
25:04the 2025
25:05exams were
25:06compromised.
25:07Are you
25:08going to
25:08take action
25:09on that?
25:09Look, you
25:10must have
25:11very strict
25:12action against
25:13those who
25:13are.
25:14Absolutely.
25:15Let me bring
25:16in Charu
25:16Pragya on
25:17that aspect.
25:17As soon as
25:18I say that
25:18somebody should
25:19be punished,
25:21some heads
25:21must roll,
25:22I am not
25:22saying the
25:23government is
25:23responsible.
25:24If government
25:24makes me the
25:25chairman, I
25:26am responsible,
25:27I must be
25:28sacked.
25:28Nobody was
25:29sacked.
25:29Not just
25:31sacked, sir,
25:32action must be
25:33taken against
25:33those who are
25:34involved in
25:35paper leak and
25:35hard action.
25:36Should the
25:37need arise,
25:38put National
25:38Security Act,
25:39they are playing
25:40with the future
25:40of our country,
25:42Charu Pragya,
25:42because what
25:43is happening
25:43right now is
25:44merely optics,
25:46Charu.
25:46You know,
25:47we need to
25:48overhaul this
25:49rotting system
25:49that's leaking
25:50like a sieve
25:512015,
25:522024,
25:532025,
25:542026.
25:55The government
25:55may be deploying
25:57air force or
25:57army, great
25:58optics, but
25:59just shut this
26:00system out,
26:01Charu.
26:03Gaurav, good
26:03evening.
26:04Yes, I agree
26:05with you.
26:05And on your
26:06debate, I am
26:07not going to get
26:08into the list of
26:09paper leaks that
26:10have happened
26:11previously.
26:11Because you
26:12are listing out
26:13paper leaks from
26:142015 onwards,
26:15I can do that
26:16from 2010,
26:1720, 2004.
26:20It's happened
26:21consistently in
26:22this country for
26:23a really long
26:24time.
26:24So, point
26:25one, this has
26:26not...
26:27truly expected
26:27this government
26:28to be very
26:28different and
26:29now this
26:29government is
26:30in 5 or
26:3012 years.
26:31Let me come
26:32there.
26:32So, paper
26:33leaks is not
26:33a phenomena
26:34which is born
26:34this year.
26:35Let's get that
26:36straight.
26:36Paper leaks is
26:37also not a
26:37phenomena which is
26:38born under
26:39this government's
26:40rule.
26:40Let's get
26:41that also
26:41very clear.
26:42But tell
26:43me, is
26:43this government
26:44living in
26:44denial?
26:45Under this
26:45government is
26:46what hurts.
26:47Young
26:48Ananya would
26:49hurt.
26:49May I
26:50respectfully ask
26:53you to let me
26:53finish speaking
26:54and then you
26:55can ask me a
26:55follow-up question.
26:56But is my
26:57government living
26:58in denial or
26:59is my government
27:00working on
27:00interventions at
27:01every level to
27:02ensure something
27:03like this is not
27:04repeated?
27:05Because after the
27:05last paper leak,
27:06the government did
27:07not just sit
27:08doing nothing.
27:08There were
27:09investigations.
27:10In fact, it
27:11was transferred to
27:11the CBI.
27:12Officials were
27:13removed.
27:14The head was
27:15removed.
27:16Charge sheets
27:16were filed.
27:17Laws have been
27:18strengthened.
27:19In fact, so much
27:19so that a new
27:20anti-paper law has
27:21been introduced
27:23with a long jail
27:25term which can
27:25extend up to even
27:2610 years with
27:27fines up to 1
27:28crore.
27:28So all of this
27:29has happened.
27:30Anti-overall has
27:31happened.
27:31The Prime
27:32Minister himself
27:32is now going
27:33to be overseen.
27:35I'm coming to
27:35that.
27:36I'm coming to
27:36that.
27:37So this paper
27:37leak and after
27:38that also certain
27:39interventions have
27:40been made.
27:41Whether it is
27:41about logistical
27:43support from the
27:43Indian Air Force
27:44or our Prime
27:45Ministers direct
27:46overseeing the
27:47exams coming
27:48forward, hence
27:49forth.
27:49See, the
27:51opposition wants
27:52Indian headlines
27:53to read, paper
27:54leak has happened.
27:55But the
27:55government is
27:56intent on these
27:57headlines to say,
27:58how do we stop
27:59the next one?
28:00And we are
28:01working on that.
28:01And Gaurav, you
28:02know, while you're
28:02asking me
28:03questions, let's
28:04just say one
28:04thing straight,
28:06criminal networks
28:06adapt.
28:07They're always
28:08trying to be one
28:09step ahead of
28:09investigative agencies
28:10and that is where
28:11this government's
28:12intention comes in
28:13because this
28:14government is
28:14actually caught up
28:15and can't stop.
28:15I want Yashoward
28:16and Azad as a
28:17police officer to
28:18respond because,
28:19you know, a lot
28:20of measures have
28:21been taken and
28:22if the mafia is
28:23still one step
28:24ahead of the
28:25government, then
28:27there is a
28:27problem.
28:27Unprecedented
28:28measures are being
28:29taken this time
28:30around to ensure
28:31one, students
28:33feel safe,
28:34number two,
28:35absolutely no
28:36scope, no
28:37loophole is left
28:38unchecked and
28:40thirdly and most
28:40importantly, our
28:41children's future is
28:42of utmost importance.
28:44It is of prime
28:44importance.
28:45Nanya, do you feel
28:46safer hearing all the
28:48measures that have
28:49been taken so far
28:50as an aspirant?
28:52Honestly, we have
28:53been told that
28:54Air Force will be
28:54taking care of the
28:55logistics but we
28:56have heard that the
28:57paper leak was done
28:58at the very core
28:59level.
29:00Like the people who
29:01made the paper,
29:01they had leaked it.
29:03So what is the
29:03action taken for it?
29:04There is no action
29:05taken for it.
29:06They are telling us
29:07that the logistics
29:07will be handled by
29:08the army.
29:10We don't know
29:10whether it will work
29:11out or not.
29:12This is the first
29:12time it is
29:13happening again.
29:14It is novel for
29:14us as well.
29:15Now, the second
29:16thing that they
29:18are saying, the
29:18paper leak was
29:19done at the
29:19very core level.
29:21The paper was
29:22leaked by the
29:22professors themselves.
29:23What is done to
29:24combat that?
29:25What is done to
29:25prevent that?
29:27Good point.
29:28Because let me get
29:28Yashavarda Nazad.
29:30There were some
29:30reports that seem
29:31to suggest that the
29:31leak also originated
29:32at the printing
29:33press in Nashik
29:35even before the
29:36papers reached the
29:37examination centre.
29:38Sir, time to put
29:40something like a
29:41national security act
29:42I don't know
29:43whether you can
29:44if this is
29:44organised crime
29:45and I am sure
29:46paper leak mafia
29:47is an organised
29:48crime.
29:48Put makoka if
29:49you need to put
29:50makoka.
29:51Put whatever law
29:51you need to put
29:52and just lock
29:53them away.
29:54Just make sure
29:55that paper leak
29:55is no longer
29:56conducive.
29:57You know, money
29:58spinning for them.
29:59Put them in jail.
30:00Shut their
30:01institutes forever.
30:02No law will
30:03help Gaurav unless
30:04the implementers
30:05are serious about
30:06it.
30:07I totally agree
30:08with Professor
30:08Sharma that the
30:09head should roll.
30:10See what happened.
30:11Two parts to it.
30:12to your problem.
30:142024, what
30:15happened to the
30:15DG NTA?
30:16He was quietly,
30:18very comfortably
30:19adjusted in a
30:20steel ministry.
30:21Then after that
30:22the NTA was
30:23headed by a
30:24part-time fellow
30:25who was not
30:26even, you know,
30:27he had an extra
30:28job as director
30:29at NTA.
30:30So this is how
30:31the government
30:31treated it.
30:32And later on
30:33that person has
30:34now become an
30:35advisor to the
30:36chief minister
31:04minister in
31:07let the top
31:07academician or
31:08the top
31:09IIT and get
31:09into it.
31:10And if you
31:11want to really
31:11go through a
31:12system, give it
31:13to somebody like
31:14TCS and then
31:15manage everything.
31:16But TCS was
31:17pushed out and
31:18some company was
31:19brought in, but
31:19that's a separate
31:20story that I'm
31:20coming to in just
31:21a moment.
31:22Professor Sharma...
31:22Because of
31:23corruption.
31:24Yes.
31:24Because of
31:25lower L1.
31:26So, yeah, L1 in
31:28defense and L1 in
31:30examination, both
31:31places you play
31:32with security, you
31:32play with your
31:33future.
31:34Professor Sharma, the
31:35question, paper that
31:37was allegedly being
31:38transported under
31:39police escort, GPS
31:41monitored vehicle,
31:42district administration
31:43supervision.
31:44Sir, if all these
31:45safeguards prove to
31:46be inadequate, how
31:48will Indian Air
31:49Force help?
31:50That's point one
31:50and point two.
31:52Is it time, one,
31:53remove the
31:54bureaucracy from
31:55here?
31:55Is that the
31:56problem, according
31:56to you?
31:57That bureaucrats
31:58just treat it as
31:59a plum job, no
32:01accountability and
32:02no accountability
32:03anyways?
32:03Is that the main
32:04problem?
32:06Kaurav, I will
32:06first make one
32:07comment.
32:08Don't make it a
32:09political debate.
32:10Any government,
32:11whether this is
32:12BJP government
32:12today or there
32:13would have been a
32:14Congress government,
32:15any government
32:16would have done the
32:17same that BJP is
32:18doing this.
32:19So, let us not make
32:20it a political debate
32:21as soon as you
32:22will make it a
32:22political debate,
32:23there will be
32:24tutu mehma and
32:24we will not be
32:25able to come to
32:25a solution.
32:26Fair point.
32:27Second, exactly, I
32:29have been saying
32:29that the NTA is
32:31a bureaucratic
32:32setup where you
32:33do not have
32:34people who
32:34understand assessment
32:35process and how
32:37you conduct it,
32:39right?
32:40I have been saying
32:41this, CBSC used
32:42to do it, it did
32:43it so well.
32:44It was given to
32:45IIT, IIT used
32:47to do the JE, it
32:48did it so well for
32:49many, many years.
32:49You have given
32:50to novices, remove
32:52the DG NTA, put a
32:54person there who
32:56has conducted
32:56large-scale
32:57examinations.
32:58I have said, CBSC
33:00has done good work
33:01at the moment, the
33:02CBSC is in
33:03controversy again.
33:04I am coming to
33:05CBSC in just a
33:06moment, but for the
33:07moment, that's a
33:07very pertinent
33:08point.
33:08Go on, sir.
33:09expert of this, put
33:10that person, maybe
33:11he's not an IS, and
33:13I repeat what the
33:14Prime Minister said
33:15on the floor of the
33:16Parliament.
33:24For God's sake, remove
33:26the bureaucrat and put
33:27a person who understands
33:29assessment process and
33:30you would not require any
33:31army, any air force,
33:32anything.
33:33I have conducted
33:34nationwide exam.
33:35I have conducted
33:36an exam for similar
33:36size and nothing
33:37happened because I
33:39understood how to get
33:40the question paper set,
33:41how to get it printed,
33:43who is to be made
33:43responsible, how to keep
33:45the secrecy, here it
33:46is all compromised.
33:47Everything is
33:48compromised.
33:49I mean, Charu
33:49Prager, it actually
33:50hurts when year after
33:52year after year, these
33:54papers are leaking and
33:55you know, when they
33:56were leaking in the
33:56past, the voters in
33:592014 made a call.
34:01The voters in 2014
34:03therefore elected
34:04somebody who would
34:05bring about a change
34:06and then in 2019 and
34:08then again in 2024,
34:10now when Education
34:11Minister Dharmendra
34:12Pradhan owns up to
34:14the neat debacle and
34:16says government will
34:17follow zero trust
34:18always inspect policy
34:19for retest beyond
34:22words.
34:23Tell us what this
34:24means or will it be
34:25one more inquiry
34:27committee, maybe one
34:28more reprimand by the
34:29Supreme Court that
34:30will then be consigned
34:32to some file somewhere
34:33and it will be back to
34:34business as usual.
34:36Ananya's future may be
34:37impacted but 2027,
34:392028, God forbid,
34:41there will be another
34:41paper leak.
34:42No, absolutely not
34:44and Gaurav, I'm going
34:44to say this with a lot
34:45of responsibility.
34:46I am a mother to a
34:47teenager who will be
34:49appearing for similar
34:50examinations this year,
34:51next year.
34:52All of us are impacted
34:53by paper leaks and it
34:54is definitely not a
34:56political issue but see
34:57the difference.
34:58Look at the way the
34:59government is responding
35:00if our education
35:01minister can up front
35:03say that we take
35:04responsibility and we
35:05will bring in
35:06corrective measures, I
35:07think it must be
35:08applauded.
35:08Have previous governments
35:09ever done that?
35:10Can you come up with
35:11one instance when any
35:12other government apart
35:13from a BJP government
35:15has owned up and said
35:16that we are responsible
35:17and we will fix this?
35:18Our government has
35:19done that.
35:20Our government has
35:21cancelled exams, our
35:22government has ordered
35:23investigations, involved
35:24the CBI, made sure a
35:26new law is made, we've
35:27strengthened security, we
35:29have actually gotten
35:30stricter legal provisions
35:31at every level whether
35:32it is a huge long jail
35:34term which is as close
35:35to what it takes to
35:37murder a person or a
35:38huge fine which can go
35:40up to a crore even and
35:41now when we look at
35:42security measures, when
35:43we are talking about
35:44bringing in even the
35:44armed forces, I think
35:46no stone has been
35:47left unturned Gaurav and
35:48that is the difference
35:49between what has
35:49happened in the past
35:50and what is happening
35:52right now.
35:53I assure you of this
35:54and I promise you this
35:55on behalf of both the
35:56government in power and
35:58my party today that
35:59these leaks, these
36:01loopholes will be
36:02plugged and will be
36:03plugged in such an
36:04absolute way, an
36:05example will be made in
36:06such an absolute way
36:07that all of this is
36:08not going to happen.
36:09These systemic failures
36:10need to be put a full
36:11stop too and we are
36:12working on that.
36:13So Professor Sharma, in
36:14your view sir, three
36:16steps, three steps
36:17that must be taken
36:18immediately that you
36:20may think may lead to
36:21no more paper leaks.
36:24First is completely
36:26revamp NTA, make it a
36:28professional body with
36:29experts there.
36:31Second, let that
36:32organization do it.
36:34Today this question,
36:35whole question of where
36:35will it be printed, which
36:37agency will come in, has
36:38come out, let that
36:40agency do and let there
36:41be one person
36:42responsible and if it
36:44leaks, that person has
36:45to be in jail.
36:47Now, what I would like
36:48to say as the third
36:48comment is that whatever
36:51Charu may say, this has
36:52definitely damaged the
36:54reputation of our prime
36:55minister.
36:55We all trust prime
36:56minister and this
36:57government is because of
36:58the prime minister and
36:59nobody else.
37:00This whole incident is
37:01corroding his image and
37:03he will definitely be hurt
37:05because of this.
37:06Whoever may ask for
37:07apologies, but that
37:08doesn't matter.
37:10Every minister has asked
37:11for apology, but then
37:13that damages the image
37:14of the party and this
37:16is happening with the
37:17government today.
37:18Charu, I'll get you to
37:19respond to this.
37:20Very, very large-hearted
37:21prime minister.
37:22Yes.
37:22Mr. Azad, three steps
37:24that need to be taken
37:25against those who've been
37:27involved in paper leaks.
37:28Time-bound action,
37:29punishment, jail terms,
37:31what needs to be done
37:32and not just those people
37:33involved in it, those who
37:34are in supervisory roles
37:36that they don't retire
37:38into the sunset in some
37:39cushy jimkhana and there
37:41is action that's taken
37:42against them for ruining
37:43the lives of these
37:44children.
37:45That's why jimkhana is
37:46also going.
37:47But anyway, three actions
37:48which should be taken.
37:50First of all, DG NTA
37:51posts should be advertised
37:53for academicians only.
37:56And a top academician who
37:58has experienced exams
38:00should be posted there.
38:02Number two, there should
38:04be complete autonomy
38:05and I completely agree
38:06with Professor Sharma.
38:08Babu should be out
38:09and responsibility
38:11should be with him.
38:12Whether he wants to
38:13vendorize it, whether he
38:14wants to CBT, whether he
38:15wants a paper exam,
38:17leave it to him and
38:18when not, just sack him.
38:20And number three, very
38:21tough action against
38:23people and in a time-bound
38:26period.
38:26For example, the people
38:28in Pune or the people
38:29in Bihar, if you give
38:31the result in one year,
38:33the action, what has
38:34happened after the act,
38:36then it will have a
38:37salutary impact of the
38:38people and restore
38:40confidence in little
38:41girls like Ananya Sharma.
38:43Oh, absolutely.
38:43And I'm happy
38:44Charu Pagya has given
38:45the assurance that this
38:47time nothing will happen.
38:49Ananya, does that
38:50reassure you?
38:52Honestly, it's very,
38:53it's a very difficult
38:54time for me.
38:54Nothing can reassure
38:55me at this point.
38:56I'm preparing for an
38:57exam for which I had
38:58already prepared for
38:59two years.
38:59I had prepared for
39:00my 12th boards as
39:01well.
39:01So it's obviously a
39:02very difficult time.
39:03No amount of
39:03reassurance can cure
39:04that.
39:05But of course, I'm
39:06hoping that it will
39:07be a nice exam.
39:08It will be fairly
39:08conducted.
39:10That is what I'm
39:10hoping for.
39:11I wish you and
39:12all those 22 lakhs
39:13with you who are
39:14taking this examination,
39:15all the best.
39:16And like Yogeshwar
39:17Sri Krishna told
39:18Arjun in that
39:19battlefield of
39:19Kurukshetra,
39:21Yodhai Krita
39:21Nishchaya take
39:22a firm resolve
39:23and take that
39:24examination.
39:25Exactly.
39:26Exactly.
39:27I have said it.
39:28There is breaking
39:29news that's coming
39:30in.
39:30There's breaking
39:31news that's coming
39:31in.
39:31It's a political
39:32war of words
39:33over neat
39:33paper exam
39:34leaks.
39:35After the
39:35center informed
39:36the Supreme
39:36Court that
39:37Prime Minister
39:37Narendra Modi
39:38is personally
39:38supervising the
39:39issue, Rahul
39:40Gandhi has taken
39:42a jibe at
39:43Prime Minister
39:43Narendra Modi.
39:44He said Prime
39:45Minister Narendra
39:46Modi personally
39:47supervise the
39:48neat paper leak
39:49is an attack
39:50that's being made
39:51by Rahul Gandhi.
39:53We will get you
39:54more on the
39:55story.
39:56But as far as
39:57those students
39:58are concerned,
39:59those students who
40:00are taking this
40:01examination, take a
40:02firm resolve, take
40:04that examination, give
40:05it your best shot,
40:06and we'll keep an
40:08eye that this
40:09examination is
40:10conducted in a
40:11free and fair,
40:12absolutely transparent
40:13manner, we will
40:14continue to report
40:15and get you the
40:16latest on this
40:17developing story.
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