- 2 days ago
The cancellation of the NEET-UG 2026 medical entrance examination, following a major paper leak has affected nearly 2.3 million students.
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00:08NEET UG 2026 CANCEL
00:17ENTRANCE TEST AXED AFTER PAPER LEAGUE
00:26NEARLY 23 LACK STUDENTS AFFECTED
00:38NATIONAL TESTING AGENCY CHEMISTRY AND PHYSICS EXAM EXPERTS HELP
00:49WHO IS ACCOUNTABLE FOR PAPER LEAKS
00:57DOES EXAM SYSTEM NEED A REBOOT
01:05NEET ROUND TABLE
01:10HELLO AND WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S ROUND TABLE
01:13IT'S BEEN A FAMILIAR STORY PLAYING OUT IN THE COUNTRY
01:17YET ANOTHER MAJOR EXAM PAPER LEAK HAS CAST A HUGE SHADOW OVER THE COUNTRY'S EXAMINATION SYSTEM
01:25LACKS OF STUDENTS WHO ARE DOING THE MAJOR NEET UNDERGRADUATE MEDICAL EXAM TO FULFILL THEIR DREAMS
01:32TO BECOME DOCTORS BY ENTERING MEDICAL COLLEGES
01:34HAVE HAD THEIR LIVES TURNED UPSIDE DOWN BY THE CANCELLATION OF THE EXAMS AND A RETEST NEXT MONTH
01:41AFTER A PAPER WAS SEEN TO HAVE BEEN LEAKED
01:45THIS IS NOT THE FIRST SUCH MAJOR PAPER LEAK
01:48AND ONE FEARS IT MAY NOT BE THE LAST
01:51HOW DOES ONE THEN REFORM INDIA'S HIGHER EDUCATION EXAMINATION SYSTEM
01:56HOW DOES ONE BUILD A BIG SID BARAT UNTIL ONE AT LEAST GETS ONE HIGHER EDUCATION SYSTEMS RIGHT
02:02THOSE ARE THE QUESTIONS THAT WE WILL POSE TODAY
02:05WE WILL LOOK AT AN ISSUE THAT GOES TO THE HEART OF LACKS OF STUDENTS, PARENTS AND STAKEHOLDERS IN THE
02:12SYSTEM
02:13THAT'S OUR ROUND TABLE DEBATE
02:15JOINING US ON THIS ROUND TABLE
02:17SPECIAL GUEST NITIN KUKREJA IS CEO ALLEN CAREER INSTITUTE PRIVATE LIMITED
02:23ANAND KUMAR FOUNDER SUPER 30
02:26MAESHWAR PERRY FOUNDER CAREERS 360
02:29DR. SUBRAMANIAM SWAMINATHAN
02:31DIRECTOR INFECTIOUS DISEASES AND INFECTION CONTROL
02:34AT GLEN EAGLES HOSPITAL
02:36AND VICE PRESIDENT OF THE CLINICAL INFECTIOUS DISEASE SOCIETY OF INDIA
02:39KESHAV AGARWAL
02:41VICE PRESIDENT COACHING FEDERATION OF INDIA
02:43AND R. SUBRAMANIAM
02:44FORMER SECRETARY TO GOVERNMENT OF INDIA
02:46HIGHER EDUCATION AND SOCIAL JUSTICE
02:49ON THE ROUND TABLE
02:51THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US
02:52WE WILL PUT VARIOUS QUESTIONS
02:54AND SEEK RESPONSES ON AN ISSUE OF HIGH PUBLIC CONCERN
02:58FIRST OF ALL
02:59WHY ARE THERE SO MANY PAPER LEAKS
03:01IS THIS
03:03ISOLATED INCIDENCE
03:05OR A SYSTEMIC FLOOR
03:06OR PLANE CORRUPTION
03:08WHAT CAUSES
03:09THESE CONSTANT PAPER LEAKS IN THIS COUNTRY
03:12I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU SOME FIGURES
03:14THERE HAVE BEEN 220 DOCUMENTED EXAM FRAUDS
03:18BETWEEN 2005 AND 2026
03:21ACCORDING TO AN NGO PARIVARTHAN
03:23OF THESE
03:24THEY COVERED 21 STATES AND CENTRAL EXAMS
03:2772 TOOK PLACE BETWEEN 2005 AND 14
03:31THAT'S DURING UPA RULE
03:34148
03:34ALMOST TWICE THAT NUMBER HAVE TAKEN PLACE
03:37JUST IN THE LAST DECADE
03:38WHICH COINCIDES WITH THE NDA RULE
03:40AT THE CENTER
03:42SO HAS THE PROBLEM BECOME WORSE
03:44BEFORE IT GETS BETTER
03:45MAESHWAR PERRY
03:47WHY DON'T YOU KICK IT OFF
03:48IS THIS AN ABERRATION
03:49WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE NEET
03:50MEDICAL EXAM
03:51OR AS THOSE NUMBERS SUGGEST
03:53THERE IS SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG
03:55WITH THE ENTIRE EXAMINATION SYSTEM IN THE COUNTRY
03:58I THINK THE FINANCIAL INCENTIVE THAT WE CREATE
04:02FOR A FRAUD IS VERY VERY HIGH IN THIS COUNTRY
04:06BECAUSE THE KIND OF QUALITY OF INSTITUTIONS
04:08IN THE WATERFALL EFFECT THAT YOU HAVE
04:10THAT YOU HAVE VERY VERY GOOD INSTITUTIONS
04:11AND THEN YOU HAVE VERY BAD INSTITUTIONS
04:12THERE IS NOTHING IN BETWEEN
04:13AND THE PRICING STRUCTURE ALSO IS SUCH
04:15THAT FOR EXAMPLE IF YOU LOOK AT NEET
04:17WHICH IS NORMALLY MOST PRONE TO A LEAK
04:20IS BECAUSE THE PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM
04:22IS COSTING 5 LAC RUPEES
04:23AND THE PRIVATE EDUCATION SYSTEM
04:25IS COSTING 1 CRORE AND ABOVE
04:26SO WHEN YOUR INCENTIVE IS SUCH
04:28WHICH IS A GAP OF 95 LAC RUPEES
04:30AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN BETWEEN
04:31IN TERMS OF EITHER QUALITY
04:32OR THE PRICING STRUCTURE
04:34AND WHEN YOU HAVE THAT KIND OF A GAP
04:36THE INCENTIVE THE FINANCIAL INCENTIVE
04:38FOR A LEAK IS VERY HIGH
04:39BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY
04:40BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT
04:42EVEN IF THEY PAY 25-30 LAC RUPEES
04:43THEY WILL LIKE TO SAVE A LOT OF MONEY
04:45BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT JOINING THE CHILDREN
04:46IN THE PRIVATE EDUCATION
04:47FOR EXAMPLE
04:47ALL THESE LEAKS HAPPEN
04:49BECAUSE THERE IS A PARENT
04:50WILLING TO BUY
04:50OR A COACHING INSTITUTION
04:52WILLING TO BUY
04:52BECAUSE THEY CAN ACTUALLY USE THAT
04:54FOR TOP OF HARMING
04:55WHICH MEANS THAT YOU
04:55SHOW 10 TOPPERS
04:57TO GET THE NEXT 10,000 STUDENTS
04:59SO THE FINANCIAL INCENTIVE
05:00THAT YOU HAVE
05:01FOR THIS ENTIRE THING
05:02AND WHY DO PEOPLE
05:03JOIN COACHING INSTITUTION
05:03BECAUSE THE GAP IS SUCH
05:05THAT YOU KNOW
05:06ULTIMATELY STUDENTS
05:06RAJDEB IN INDIA
05:07AS FAR AS MEDICAL IS CONCERNED
05:09ARE COMPETING
05:10FOR THE TOP 30,000 SEATS ONLY
05:12THEY ARE NOT COMPETING
05:12FOR THE 1 LACK 30,000 SEATS
05:14THERE ARE 60,000 SEATS
05:15IN GOVERNMENT MEDICAL COLLEGES
05:16OF WHICH ABOUT 30,000
05:17ARE OPEN CATEGORY
05:17AND THE COMPETITION IS FOR THAT
05:19AND 23 LACK STUDENTS
05:21ARE ACTUALLY COMPETING
05:22FOR THAT IN A LARGER SENSE
05:23RIGHT
05:23SO WHICH IS WHERE
05:24THE FINANCIAL INCENTIVE
05:25IS SUCH
05:26THAT IT BECOMES
05:27IMPOSSIBLE
05:28FOR US TO APPEAL
05:30TO THE MORAL CONSCIENCE
05:30OF THE COUNTRY
05:31BECAUSE THAT'S HOW
05:33THE COUNTRY IS
05:33YOU KNOW
05:35INTERESTING
05:35SO IT'S A SUPPLY-DEMAND ISSUE
05:37YOU'VE GOT LACKS OF STUDENTS
05:39COMPETING FOR THOSE
05:4030,000 SEATS
05:41AS YOU SAID
05:41FINANCIAL INCENTIVES
05:43ARE GREAT
05:43BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE
05:44IN THOSE TOP 30,000
05:46SO THAT YOU DON'T ALSO
05:47HAVE TO PAY THE HIGH FEES
05:48OTHERWISE THAT MAY BE
05:49REQUIRED IN PRIVATE
05:50INSTITUTIONS
05:50DR. SUPRAMANYAM SWAMINATAN
05:52I DON'T KNOW
05:53WHEN YOU DID THE EXAM
05:54YEARS AGO
05:55BEFORE YOU BECAME A DOCTOR
05:56NEET ONLY CAME IN 2013
05:57AND THIS IS NOT JUST
05:59ABOUT MEDICINE
06:00BUT ALL EXAMS
06:00BUT SPECIFICALLY
06:01IN TODAY'S WORLD
06:03WOULD YOU ADVISE
06:04YOUR CHILDREN
06:04TO GO THROUGH AN EXAM
06:05LIKE NEET
06:06GIVEN WHAT WE'VE SEEN
06:07HAPPENING
06:08IN THE LAST FEW YEARS
06:09IN PARTICULAR
06:10TWO QUICK POINTS
06:11BOTH MY DAUGHTERS
06:12HAVE BEEN
06:13CLEARLY COUNSELLED
06:14TO STAY WELL AWAY
06:15FROM THE CONCEPT
06:16OF BEING IN HEALTHCARE
06:17EITHER AS A HEALTHCARE
06:19PROVIDER
06:19OR AS SOMEBODY
06:20WHO'S A RECIPIENT
06:21BOTH OF WHICH
06:22ARE GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE
06:24PLEASE UNDERSTAND
06:25THAT HEALTHCARE NOW
06:26IS NOT AS LUCRATIVE
06:27AS PEOPLE MAKE IT OUT TO BE
06:29LIKE WAS POINTED OUT
06:30THE COST OF GETTING
06:32TO WHERE YOU NEED TO BE
06:33IS ASTRONOMICAL
06:35AND THE PAYOFF
06:36IS RIDICULOUSLY LOW
06:38THEREFORE THE RETURN
06:39ON INVESTMENT
06:40IS NOT A FINANCIALLY
06:41LUCRATIVE INVESTMENT
06:44SECOND
06:44YOU ASKED ABOUT
06:46WHETHER THIS HAPPENED
06:47WELL BACK IN 91
06:49WHEN I WROTE MY
06:50MBBS EXAMS
06:51WE HAD SOMETHING
06:53REALLY BAD HAPPEN
06:54AND QUITE A FEW
06:54EXAMS WERE RESCEDULED
06:56AND JUGGLED
06:57AROUND AT THAT TIME
06:57BUT I PROMISE YOU
06:59THE AMOUNT OF CHAOS
06:59WAS NOT EVEN
07:00COMPARABLE
07:01THE NUMBERS TODAY
07:03THE SHEER NUMBERS
07:04MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE
07:06FOR US TO EVEN
07:06SCALE THIS IN
07:07AND THERE'S A REASON
07:09FOR THAT
07:09THE POINT IS
07:10THAT WE ARE UNABLE
07:11TO SHOW
07:13OPPORTUNITIES
07:14FOR ADVANCEMENT
07:15OUTSIDE OF CERTAIN
07:16AREAS
07:17WE CAN ONLY THINK
07:18OF LAWYERS
07:19DOCTORS AND ENGINEERS
07:20WE DO NOT HAVE
07:21OTHER CAREER PARTS
07:22OR COUNSELING
07:23AVAILABLE FOR STUDENTS
07:24FOR THEM TO EXPAND
07:25THE HORIZONS
07:26AND WE THINK
07:27THAT DOING
07:28AN MBBS
07:29IS THE BE ALL
07:31AND END ALL OF THINGS
07:31MOST STUDENTS
07:33DON'T UNDERSTAND
07:34IT'S THE FIRST RUNG
07:35IN A VERY VERY
07:36VERY LONG LADDER
07:38AND IT IS BECOMING
07:39PROGRESSIVELY
07:40MORE DIFFICULT
07:41TO CLIMB THAT LADDER
07:42THEREFORE
07:43I THINK
07:44PEOPLE ARE
07:45OVERESTIMATING
07:46THE
07:47ROOM-OUTS
07:47THAT THEY ARE GOING
07:48TO HAVE
07:48AND
07:49LIKE WAS MENTIONED
07:51THE RISK-REVARD RATIO
07:52IS TOO HIGH
07:53AND THEREFORE
07:53THE INTENTION TO CHEAT
07:55WILL ANYWAY BE THERE
07:56IT'S ALMOST AS IF
07:57SAYING THAT
07:58BECAUSE OF THE
07:59FINANCIAL INCENTIVES
08:00OR THE FINANCIAL STAKES
08:01THAT OFFER
08:02THE INCENTIVE TO CHEAT
08:03AS YOU PUT IT
08:04HAS BECOME SO HIGH
08:05WHICH IS
08:06WHICH IS VERY DISTURBING
08:07BECAUSE IT SHOWS A
08:08COMPLETE LACK OF
08:09ETHICAL STANDARDS
08:10ABOVE ALL ELSE
08:11YOU WANT TO BE DOCTORS
08:12BUT YOU ARE WILLING
08:13TO TAKE THOSE
08:14SHORTCUTS
08:14TO BECOME DOCTORS
08:15INCLUDING PAYING
08:16FOR AN EXAMMENT
08:17BUT NITIN KUKREJA
08:18WHERE DO YOU STAND?
08:20IS THIS A SYSTEMS
08:21FALL FALL
08:21OR PLAIN CORRUPTION?
08:23HAS THE SYSTEM GOT
08:23TOTALLY CORRUPTED?
08:26NO, I WOULDN'T SAY
08:27THE SYSTEM HAS GOT
08:28CORRUPTED.
08:28LOOK, THERE IS A
08:29DEMAND SUPPLY MISMATCH
08:30AND THERE ALWAYS WILL BE.
08:31IF YOU'VE GOT
08:3223 LACK PEOPLE
08:34APPEARING FOR A
08:35EXAMINATION
08:36AND THE NUMBER OF SEATS
08:37AS MAESH SAID
08:39ARE ABOUT 30,000
08:40GOOD SEATS
08:42THEN THERE IS A
08:43MISMATCH
08:43AND I DISAGREE
08:45SLIGHTLY THAT
08:46IT'S ONLY ABOUT
08:47THE COLLEGE EDUCATION
08:48IT'S ALSO
08:49PEOPLE SEEING IT
08:50AS AN OPPORTUNITY
08:51TO IMPROVE YOUR LIFE.
08:53THERE IS STILL
08:54I WOULD BELIEVE
08:54A PAYBACK
08:55THROUGH YOUR LIFE
08:56IF YOU BECOME A DOCTOR
08:57AND THAT IS WHAT
08:58PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR.
08:59IT'S BEYOND JUST
09:00THE FEE DIFFERENTIAL
09:01OF A 5 LACK
09:02VERSUS A CROWER.
09:04NOW, IF THERE IS
09:05SUCH A
09:07LIFE-CHANGING
09:08OPPORTUNITY
09:08IN FRONT OF YOU
09:09AND SUCH A BIG
09:10DEMAND SUPPLY
09:10MISMATCH,
09:11THERE WILL ALWAYS BE
09:12SOME BAD APPLES
09:13WHO ARE TRYING TO
09:14TAKE SOME ADVANTAGES
09:15OUT OF IT.
09:16AND THAT'S WHERE
09:17THE PROBLEM LIES.
09:19HOW DO YOU
09:19PLUG THOSE GAPS,
09:21THOSE ARE THE THINGS
09:22THAT...
09:22HOW DO THEY FIND
09:23IF I MAY ASK,
09:24HOW DO YOU...
09:25IT SEEMS SO ALSO
09:27VERY EASY TO DO IT.
09:28IS IT AS EASY AS IT IS
09:31TO ACTUALLY GET
09:31THE PAPERS OUT?
09:33THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
09:34I MEAN, THAT'S THE
09:35PROBLEM TO BE FIXED.
09:36AND I SAID IT IN THE
09:39PAST AS WELL.
09:40LOOK, THE SYSTEM OF
09:43CONDUCTING THE
09:43EXAMINATION NEEDS TO
09:44BE MADE FOOL PROOF.
09:46THE NTA BY ITS OWN
09:47ADMISSION SAYS THAT
09:492 LACK PEOPLE,
09:50MORE THAN 2 LACK PEOPLE
09:51ARE INVOLVED IN THE
09:52CONDUCT OF THE NEET
09:53EXAMINATION.
09:54THAT'S ASKING FOR
09:54TROUBLE.
09:55WHEN YOU DO A
09:56ONE-TIME PEN AND
09:57PAPER EXAM WITH SO
09:58MANY PEOPLE INVOLVED
10:00IN THE CONDUCT OF
10:00THE EXAMINATION,
10:02THEREIN LIES THE
10:02FLOOR.
10:03AND THE ANSWER TO
10:05MY MIND HAS BEEN
10:06STAIRING US IN THE
10:07FACE.
10:07THE NTA CONDUCTS THE
10:09JE EXAM FOR 14 LACK
10:10PEOPLE, CONDUCTS IT
10:12IN A MANNER WHICH IS
10:13BROKEN DOWN INTO
10:14TWO PARTS, JE MAIN, JE
10:16ADVANCED.
10:17JE MAIN IS DONE IN
10:18TWO SESSIONS IN
10:19JANUARY AND IN
10:20APRIL.
10:21THE JANUARY SESSION
10:22IS SLICED INTO
10:23VARIOUS LITTLE
10:24PIECES.
10:24THE APRIL SESSION IS
10:25SLICED INTO VARIOUS
10:27PIECES.
10:28THAT'S THE MODEL
10:29YOU NEED TO COPY.
10:31OK.
10:32I'M GOING TO COME
10:33TO REFORMS.
10:34I'M GOING TO COME
10:34TO REFORMS IN A
10:35MOMENT.
10:35BUT I THINK GENERALLY
10:36ALL OF YOU ARE
10:37ADMITTING THERE ARE
10:37SYSTEMIC FLAWS IN
10:39THE WAY IN WHICH THIS
10:41EXAM IS STRUCTURED
10:42AT THE MOMENT.
10:43MR. SUBRAMANYAM,
10:43FORMER SECRETARY TO
10:44GOVERNMENT OF INDIA,
10:45HIGHER EDUCATION
10:46AND SOCIAL JUSTICE,
10:47DO YOU AGREE THAT
10:48THE MANNER IN WHICH
10:49THERE IS A SYSTEMIC
10:54EXAMS ARE BEING
10:55CONDUCTED, THESE
10:55COMPETITIVE EXAMS?
10:58ABSOLUTELY.
10:58I MEAN, WITHOUT ANY
10:59DOUBT.
11:00THE PEN AND PAPER,
11:02I HAVE ACTUALLY
11:02STATED MANY TIMES
11:04AND ALSO, IT IS
11:05ACTUALLY PART OF
11:06THAT CABINET NOTE
11:07ALSO, THAT WE HAVE,
11:10WHEREVER YOU HAVE
11:11A PEN AND PAPER
11:12SYSTEM, THERE ARE
11:14AT LEAST 12 TO 14
11:16DIFFERENT PLACES
11:17WHERE LEAKAGE
11:18CAN OCCUR.
11:20THEN, WITH SO
11:22MANY PEOPLE
11:23JUST, YOU KNOW,
11:24TRYING TO CASH IN
11:25ON THIS,
11:26IT IS ACTUALLY
11:27VERY EASY
11:28FOR AN
11:29UNSCREWPULOUS
11:30PERSON TO JUST GET
11:31IN AND THEN
11:32GET THE INFORMATION
11:33OUT.
11:33SO, THEREFORE,
11:34IT'S PURELY
11:35SYSTEMIC.
11:36WE MUST GRADUATE
11:38OUT OF THIS
11:38ARCHIVIC SYSTEM
11:40OF CONDUCTING
11:40EXAMINATION.
11:42TODAY, WE HAVE
11:42LATEST TECHNOLOGIES
11:44AVAILABLE.
11:44WE HAVE LATEST
11:45STATISTICAL
11:45METHODS AVAILABLE.
11:47NORMALIZATION
11:47TECHNIQUES ARE
11:48AVAILABLE.
11:49THEY ARE BEING
11:49USED PARKLY
11:51IN JEE EXAM
11:53QUITE SUCCESSFULLY
11:54AND THEY WERE
11:54NEVER CHALLENGED.
11:56SO, WHY IS THAT
11:57NEED SHOULD BE
11:58DIFFERENT?
11:58I JUST DON'T
11:59UNDERSTAND.
12:00WE SHOULD ACTUALLY
12:01MOVE TOWARDS A
12:02SYSTEM WHERE
12:03WE ALSO REDUCE
12:06THE STAKES IN
12:06THIS EXAM.
12:07THE STAKES IN
12:08THIS EXAMS ARE
12:09VERY HIGH.
12:10I'M NOT TALKING
12:10ABOUT THE DEMAND
12:11SUPPLY IMBALANCE.
12:13THAT WILL ALWAYS BE
12:13THERE.
12:14IF THE DEMAND
12:16EQUALS SUPPLY,
12:17THERE IS NO NEED
12:17FOR A TEST.
12:18SO, THERE IS
12:19ALWAYS GOING TO
12:20BE MORE DEMAND
12:21THAN THE SUPPLY
12:22OF SEEDS.
12:23BUT, IT IS A
12:25CHALLENGE FOR THE
12:25AUTHORITIES TO
12:26CONDUCT THIS
12:27EXAMINATION
12:28PROPERLY.
12:29AND I CAN TELL YOU
12:30WITH CONFIDENCE,
12:31WITH EXPERIENCE,
12:32THAT IT IS POSSIBLE
12:33TO CONDUCT A
12:34FLAWLESS EXAMINATION
12:36USING THE LATEST
12:37TECHNOLOGIES.
12:37AND THEN WE JUST
12:39GOT TO TICK MARK
12:40IT.
12:40JUST SAY THAT,
12:41YES, I'M READY
12:41FOR IT.
12:42THEN I'M SURE NTA
12:43WILL BE IN A POSITION
12:44TO CONDUCT THIS
12:45FLAWLESS.
12:45AS I SAID, I'M GOING
12:46TO COME BACK TO
12:47SPECIFIC SOLUTION,
12:48BUT I WANT TO RAISE
12:49A SECOND QUESTION
12:49AND GO TO KESHA
12:50VAGARWAL AND ANAND
12:52IN A MOMENT,
12:54ANAND KUMAR OF
12:54SUPER 30.
12:56THE SECOND QUESTION
12:56IS QUITE SIMPLE.
12:58COACHING CENTERS,
12:59ARE THEY AT THE
13:00HEART OF THIS
13:01PAPER LEAGUE?
13:02BECAUSE MANY
13:03BELIEVE THAT THE
13:04WAY WHEN
13:05INVESTIGATORS
13:05TRACE THE NEED
13:06PAPER LEAGUE,
13:07THEY ALWAYS
13:08FOLLOW A TRAIL
13:09KESHA VAGARWAL
13:10THAT GOES THROUGH
13:11THE COACHING
13:13ECOSYSTEM.
13:13WHETHER IT IS THAT
13:15ECOSYSTEM WHICH IS
13:16THERE IN SEEKER
13:16IN RAJASTHAN IN
13:17THIS CASE,
13:18IT SEEMS THAT THE
13:19CENTERS ARE THE
13:20ONES WHO HAVE
13:21MAXIMUM AT STAKE.
13:22THEY HAVE CONVERTED
13:23THIS ENTIRE
13:25EXAMINATION SYSTEM
13:26INTO A BIG
13:26BUSINESS.
13:27AND MANY OF THEM
13:28ALSO NOW HAVE
13:29SUPPORT AND
13:29PATRONAGE OF
13:30POLITICIANS IN
13:32STATES LIKE RAJASTHAN.
13:33OR THAT'S THE
13:34ACCUSATION.
13:35DO YOU BELIEVE
13:36THAT IT IS THE
13:38COACHING CENTERS
13:39WHO ARE AT THE
13:40HEART OF THIS
13:42ENTIRE EXAMINATION
13:43PAPER LEAK SCANDAL?
13:46THIS IS A BIG
13:47MISCONCEPTION.
13:48NOW I'LL CLEAR YOU.
13:50IF COACHING CENTERS
13:52ARE TO LEAK THE
13:52PAPER, THEN WHY
13:53DON'T THEY LEAK
13:54THE IIT PAPER?
13:55WHY DON'T THEY LEAK
13:56THE CAT PAPER?
13:57WHY DON'T THEY LEAK
13:58THE UPSC PAPER?
14:00WHY SPECIFIC
14:01PAPERS ARE LEAKED?
14:02THEN COACHING CENTERS
14:03SHOULD BE ABLE TO LEAK
14:04ALL THE EXAMS IN
14:05INDIA?
14:05WHY ARE WE AGAIN AND
14:07AGAIN TALKING OF
14:08SOME PARTICULAR EXAMS?
14:09THEN THEY SHOULD BE
14:10LEAKING ALL THE
14:11EXAMS.
14:12SO SOMEWHERE THE
14:14PROBLEM LIES
14:15SOMEWHERE ELSE.
14:16AND WE NEED TO
14:17UNDERSTAND THIS
14:18PROPERLY.
14:19NOW PAST THREE
14:20YEARS, I WAS
14:22VERY DEEPLY INVOLVED
14:23IN THIS.
14:23I WAS STANDING IN
14:24SUPREME COURTE
14:25FOR THREE DAYS.
14:25I FOLLOWED EACH AND
14:28EVERYTHING AND WE
14:29WERE THERE WITH THE
14:29EVIDENCE GIVEN TO
14:31THE LAWYERS.
14:32AND THEN I UNDERSTOOD
14:33THIS SYSTEM WHY
14:34NIT EXAM HAS A
14:35FLAW AND HOW IT
14:37CAN BE JUST DONE
14:38VERY EASILY WITHOUT
14:39ANY LEAK.
14:40AND WE CAN ALSO
14:41CHALLENGE SUCH
14:43A LEAKER.
14:44SHOW US HOW
14:45YOU CAN LEAK THIS.
14:46AND VERY EASILY NOW
14:47THIS CAN BE DONE
14:48AND YOU DON'T NEED
14:49THIS MANY DAYS.
14:50YOU JUST NEED ONE
14:51WEEK TO CONDUCT
14:52THIS EXAM NOW.
14:53WITH TECHNOLOGY
14:54AND HUMANS.
14:55YOU CAN JUST DO IT
14:57IN SEVEN DAYS.
14:58YOU DON'T NEED
14:58ANY ROCKET SCIENCE
14:59NOW TO CONDUCT
15:00THIS EXAM.
15:02NOW WHATEVER.
15:03NO SO YOU ARE
15:03DENYING.
15:04ONE MINUTE.
15:05I SEE BECAUSE IN
15:06THIS CASE FOR EXAMPLE
15:07JUST TO PUT IT.
15:08LATUR COACHING
15:09INSTITUTE UNDER
15:09SCANNER IN
15:10MAHARASHTRA.
15:11THE RENUKAI
15:12CHEMISTRY CLASSES
15:14INSTITUTE HAS BEEN
15:15SEARCHED BECAUSE
15:15MANY BELIEVE THAT'S
15:16WHERE THE PAPER LEAKED
15:17FROM.
15:18THE PROMOTER QUESTION
15:19BY THE CBI IN THIS
15:21PROBE.
15:21MANY BELIEVE THAT THIS
15:22WAS LEAKED THROUGH
15:23TELEGRAM.
15:24THE APP TELEGRAM.
15:25THE PUNE PROBE
15:26FOUNDER PV KULKARNI
15:29IS BEING PROBED.
15:31AND ALL OF THEM
15:32ALLEGEDLY KNEW EACH OTHER.
15:34MOCK TEXT QUESTIONS
15:35ALLEGEDLY MATCHED THE
15:36NEED PAPER.
15:37INSTITUTES BASED IN
15:38MAHARASHTRA DISTRICTS
15:39ALONG WITH CERTAIN
15:41INSTITUTES BASED IN
15:42RAJASTHAN WERE
15:44REPORTEDLY INVOLLED.
15:45SO, YOU KNOW, HOW CAN
15:46YOU SAY THAT COACHING
15:47INSTITUTES ARE NOT
15:48INVOLLED?
15:49NOW, LET ME COME TO THIS
15:50VERY SPECIFICALLY.
15:51IT IS AN INSIDER JOB.
15:53THE PAPER SETTER
15:54IS NOT FROM A COACHING
15:55INSTITUTE.
15:55THE PERSON WHO IS
15:57GIVING THE PAPER
15:58IS HAVING A LINK.
15:59NOW, IF INSIDER
16:01LEAKS THE THING
16:01AND IT IS AVAILABLE,
16:03THERE ARE PEOPLE
16:04WHO TAKE ADVANTAGE.
16:05NOW, IN 2024,
16:06A PARENT PAID 75 LACK.
16:09NOW, YOU UNDERSTAND
16:10THIS IS A TEAM OF
16:11FRAUDSTER AND
16:11PAPER LEAK MAFIA
16:13WHICH HAS FORMED TO
16:14LEAK ANY PAPER POSSIBLE
16:16AND IT IS HAVING A
16:17BIG NETWORK.
16:18SO, THE COACHING
16:19CENTERS ARE PART
16:20OF THE MAFIA OR NOT?
16:21NO, THEY ARE NOT
16:22PART OF THE MAFIA.
16:23IT IS BASICALLY
16:24THE INSIDERS WHO GET
16:26IN TOUCH WITH THEM.
16:27AND IF COACHING
16:28CENTERS WERE TO THERE,
16:29WE WILL NOT TALK
16:29ABOUT 2-3-3 PLACES.
16:31THEN WE WILL TALK
16:31ABOUT ENTIRE INDIA
16:32THAT COACHING IS
16:33INVOLLED.
16:36BECAUSE THE COACHING
16:37CENTER HAS MAXIMUM
16:38TO GAIN BY SAYING
16:3930 OF MY STUDENTS
16:40HAVE CRACKED THIS
16:41EXAM.
16:42THEN YOU ARE TALKING
16:43OF ONE OR TWO.
16:44IN THIS CASE,
16:44THE WHISTLE BLOWER
16:45WAS A COACHING CENTER.
16:46THEN HE SHOULD NOT
16:47HAVE DISCLOSED THIS.
16:48THERE ARE GOOD PEOPLE
16:49ALSO.
16:50WE DON'T WANT THIS
16:51SYSTEM TO BE CORRECT.
16:52NOW THE PROBLEM
16:53LIES WHY YOUR ONE
16:55PAPER SETTER WAS
16:56THERE.
16:56YOU HAVE A WEAK SYSTEM.
16:57HOW CAN ONE PERSON
16:58SET A QUESTION OF
16:59CHEMISTRY WHERE
17:00THERE IS PHYSICAL,
17:01ORGANIC, INORGANIC?
17:02YOU SHOULD HAVE
17:03MULTIPLE SETS,
17:04AND NOBODY SHOULD KNOW
17:05WHICH IS COMING WHAT.
17:06HERE A PERSON IS
17:07CARRYING BOTH THE
17:07SETS.
17:08SO YOUR SYSTEM,
17:09WHAT IS IT?
17:10HOW ARE YOU
17:10SELECTING?
17:11WHAT IS YOUR SOP?
17:12CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
17:14THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS.
17:15SUCH PERSON SHOULD NOT
17:16EVEN BE INVOLVED
17:17WITH SOMEONE.
17:17WHY DON'T YOU CROSS-CHECK?
17:19AND THEN PUT THE BLAME
17:20GAME OTHER WAY ROUND.
17:21YOU KNOW, INTERESTINGLY,
17:22ANAN KUMAR JI,
17:23FOUNDER OF THE SUPER 30,
17:24YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE
17:25WHO SORT OF SET OUT,
17:26THAT'S WHY I MENTIONED
17:2730 STUDENTS,
17:28BUT YOU GOT YOUR STUDENTS
17:30TO CRACK THE IIT EXAM.
17:31AND WHAT I AM LEARNING
17:32FROM MANY OF MY GUESSES
17:33IS THE JE,
17:34THE IIT EXAM,
17:35YOU DON'T HAVE THIS
17:37YEARLY, ANNUAL,
17:38PAPER LEAGUE HOTA NAHI HAY.
17:39LAKIN,
17:40WHAT IS JE DOING RIGHT?
17:43JOO NEET NAHI KER PÁ RAH HAY.
17:45OR KYA AAPKO LAKTAHAY KIKI
17:46COACHING CENTER ISKAY INVOLVED
17:47HAY KINNAHI ISMEN?
17:50HEMARAK TOO YEEE
17:51MAINNA HAY KIKI BAHUUT
17:52ACHHE SE MAINNA KIKI
17:54COACHING CENTER
17:55POURI TARASTE INVOLVED
17:56HOTA HAY.
17:57AB DEEKHIY AAP SEMAJHI YAYE,
17:59AÁJKAL HAR AADMI CHAHATA HAY
18:01JADHA TAR LOKC CHAHATAY SORTCUT
18:03BADHA VIDEIO NAHIN DEEKHNA CHAHATA
18:05HAYE, MAHUUT MAHINAT KERKE
18:07RESULT TAK NAHINI AANA CHAHATA
18:09HAYE, BACCHYON KI MAHAN SIKHTA
18:11KHARAB HO RAHYE, SAHTH SAHTH
18:13USKAY LIEYE UNKKE PARENTS BIN CHUP HAYE
18:15AND COACHING CENTER WALES
18:17HAWA DERAHY, HEM THIKHAY
18:20AHBHI UNHONNE BATAYA KIKI
18:21COACHING CENTER CENTER
18:22INVOLVED MET NEI EK DOO COACHING CENTER
18:25JADHA TAR COACHING MEN
18:26EK SOWAL PUCHHNA CHAHATAY
18:28KYE AKRI DAS DIN MEN
18:2920 DIN MEN GES CLASSES
18:31NAHIN KERVAAYA JATA
18:35ONLINE MEN AAP DEEKHAYE GAYE
18:36BADAYE BADAYE COACHING CENTER
18:38KARATHO imperium
18:39K KARATYIN CHIN
18:40KARATHO
18:45KARATO
18:48KOCING CENTER
18:50KARATO
18:51KARATO
18:53KARATO
18:53KARATO
18:55KARATO
18:57KARATO
18:58KARATO
19:00KARATO
19:03KARATO
19:06KARATO
19:18Right. I just want to bring in Maheshwar Perry at this point. Mahesh, you've been always questioning the way these
19:25coaching centers operate.
19:26I know that Keshav Agarwal is saying there are a few rotten apples. You can't blame every coaching center.
19:31But just look at what has happened, particularly in the 2024 case also. Seeker, a town in Rajasthan, was in
19:38focus then. It's also in focus nine now because the highest number of top scorers came from Seeker, which is
19:44a coaching hub.
19:45149 candidates got more than 700 out of 720, the highest in the country. 2037 got over 650, the highest
19:52in the country. 4729 over 600 marks, again, highest in the country.
19:58So is this localized that some districts like COTA has done with engineering, Seeker now doing with medicine, possibly with
20:05political patronage, coaching institutes have become a cottage industry. More than that, a major industry.
20:12So Rajdeep, I think first of all, it is wrong for us to, you know, appeal to the moral compass
20:16of the country to, you know, stop this leakage.
20:19There is a financial incentive and the structure is such that I always say that in medical, there is about
20:2660,000 seats with a reservation for the rich.
20:27The top 2% because the fee is 1 crore, which means 98% people are anywhere outside the system.
20:32They can't even attempt that, right?
20:33Now, coming back to Seeker, what you said and what the data that I've seen also.
20:38Seeker is a very peculiar case because the result of Seeker is twice of what COTA is.
20:43So if an education, a coaching hub is supposed to influence a result or impact the result because they actually
20:47teach well, then all coaching hubs should perform similar.
20:51But Seeker is twice as much as COTA, at least in the 2024 data, 3.5% success rate for,
20:57you know, in terms of government medical seats, 650 plus is what will get you a government medical seat in
21:02the 2024 data, right?
21:04And COTA has about 3.5%, Seeker has 7%.
21:06When you drill deeper, there are about 5-7 centers which have a 12% kind of a success rate.
21:13Your typical investigation, when you know that Seeker is the first news of leakage, paper leak in 2024 also, in
21:202026 also came from Seeker, by the way, or Rajasthan.
21:24So invariably, the investigation must start saying, okay, if the leakage is coming from here, what are the chances?
21:29And when you look at the success rates for which the NTA is sitting on that data, Rajdeep, the NTA
21:33is sitting on that data, all you need to do is to understand which center there is a possible leakage
21:39by looking at the success rate and which is an outlier.
21:42One of the centers there has a 13% success rate.
21:45The national average is 1.2% success rate.
21:48But invariably, last time also in 2024 also, when the whole thing happened, Rajdeep, there were two things that were
21:52part of the investigation by the then education minister or the same minister who promised that there is investigation.
21:57One is the policy that they will tackle and two, the investigation into the leakage.
22:02But because they took a course in the Supreme Court that there was no leakage, they basically covered it completely.
22:10But the fact is that there was leakage in 2024 also because many people were arrested, mind you.
22:14It is not that I am saying sitting here that there was a leakage.
22:16Many people were arrested in 2024 for a leakage.
22:19What happened to the investigation report of the paper leakage that happened in 2024 and whether anyone, including the current
22:25NTA chairman, has he gone through that report to and talk of the action taken report essentially based on that
22:31investigation.
22:32But because he wanted to just cover it up, we actually had to see another 2026 state.
22:36You know, which brings me to my next question, accountability.
22:40I want to raise the issue of accountability now.
22:43Who is accountable for paper leaks?
22:45Because as you said, if there have been so many paper leaks, 148, 148, please keep that number in mind
22:52over the last 10 years.
22:53Who is accountable?
22:54Is it the minister?
22:56Is it the coaching centers?
22:57Is it the students and their parents?
23:00Who should be held accountable?
23:02Mr. Subramaniam, why don't you kick off as a former secretary?
23:06Because the government, you've got the opposition calling for the education minister to resign.
23:11Do you believe that the buck stops with him or does it stop with the National Testing Agency?
23:18Actually, the problem lies with the system.
23:20See, unless you are able to fix the system, there's no point in just, you know, blaming X or Y.
23:27Certainly not NTA, because see, National Testing Agency has been constituted, because I have constituted NTA.
23:34So it was constituted as an expert examination body, which will conduct online exams only.
23:42But then they were forced to do this offline examination.
23:45They don't have that sort of numbers of people.
23:48So it is very wrong to blame NTA for this.
23:53So I don't want to, again, point fingers on X and Y.
23:56I think we should now sit together and then put in place measures to rectify the system.
24:02It's period.
24:04No point in blaming, you know, coaching center.
24:07If your system is leaking, anybody who is willing, who can get a hand to it, they will just take
24:13it.
24:14Why coaching center?
24:15You know, can I just follow, can I do two things?
24:19One is, I want to raise the question, is the National Testing Agency a good idea or not?
24:24And explain to our viewers what is it.
24:26It was established in 2017 by the Modi government under the Ministry of Education.
24:30It was set up to streamline entrance exams across India.
24:33It conducts over 15 exams including engineering medicine management.
24:37Also conducts admission exams for select government schools.
24:40Now there will be those who will argue it's excessively centralized and that is part of the problem with the
24:46way these exams are conducted.
24:48Nitin Kukreja, two questions.
24:50Accountability and NTA.
24:52Does the buck stop with the National Testing Agency since it's got the supervisory power to conduct these exams?
24:58Or does it pass the buck on to the ministries?
25:01Who is responsible?
25:03Where does the buck stop?
25:04I'll just play what Rahul Gandhi said because this has got tangled in politics as well.
25:09I want to keep this discussion out of politics but just listening to what Rahul Gandhi said.
25:13I want you to respond Mr. Kukreja.
25:14I want you to respond to what Rahul Gandhi said.
26:02You know, Nitin, CEO of Alan Karrier Institute, you are not a politician so you don't have to tell me
26:07whether you agree with Rahul Gandhi or not.
26:09But do you believe that sacking the minister or the minister offering his resignation is the answer given that there
26:15have been a spate of paper leaks?
26:18Rahul Gandhi, I'll keep the politics out of it.
26:21Okay.
26:21Look, I think the…
26:23So who is accountable?
26:24Okay.
26:25Let's be clear.
26:25Who is accountable according to you?
26:27Is the NTA accountable?
26:29Look, the whole chain should take responsibility, right?
26:32Even the parent or the student who's been offered that there is a paper coming out.
26:37This is the paper that's going to come tomorrow and would you be willing to pay for it?
26:42Even they are accountable.
26:44Even they should be brought to book.
26:46And the whole…
26:47But the fact is the CBI enforcement directed with due regards in all these years has not achieved any conviction
26:52in these cases.
26:53So people believe they can get away.
26:55Even the mastermind in the 2024 case, charge sheet was not filed in 90 days against the mastermind.
27:01That's the problem.
27:02People think they can get away with it.
27:04And all the names that are coming out and some of the things that are coming out that they have
27:09been involved even in the past,
27:10they've thought they can get away with it.
27:12I've been saying you need to bring in punishment and exemplary punishment.
27:16That this thing doesn't happen again.
27:18Again, both at the demand end as well as at the supply end, there is some insider within the NTA
27:23who would have given out the paper.
27:26Make an example out of him or her.
27:28Are we convinced about that?
27:30Are we clear about that?
27:31That there were people within NTA who are responsible.
27:33That this could not have happened without them being involved.
27:36Okay.
27:38Somebody who set the paper or had access to the paper.
27:41Now, whether in NTA or outside of NTA, but whoever it was, whoever who put it out, make an example
27:47of them.
27:47Whoever bought the paper, make an example out of them.
27:50For the NTA, I think the piece ahead is basically saying, how do we fix the system?
27:57There are gaps.
27:59And as an authority, if you've given them the responsibility, please make sure they're empowered to do that.
28:04As the gentleman prior said, sir, that they were supposed to conduct online exams.
28:09If they're now being made to do offline exams, then were they given the resources, the authority to conduct those
28:15offline exams?
28:16These are the things.
28:17So, I would not put blame straight away on NTA without first saying, were they even empowered to do this
28:23or given the resources to do this?
28:24Yeah, but there was a Radhakrishnan committee which gave various recommendations, including the fact that there should be computer testing.
28:31Mr. Subramaniam, former secretary, do you believe that that was the way out?
28:36That by now, we should have had those recommendations implemented?
28:38That if this was a computerized test, which is now being talked about, this problem could have been averted?
28:45Absolutely.
28:46Absolutely.
28:46Absolutely.
28:47So, I think Radhakrishnan committee's reports, unfortunately, the entire report has not been implemented, only partially implemented, which I think
28:58probably, I mean, it would have been appropriate if the ministry has either, they can accept or reject, but they
29:06cannot partially implement and leave the rest.
29:10So, I think that, I am sure now they will sort of have a look at it.
29:14Yeah, but that's the problem. After the examination has leaked, suddenly we are remembering that we have got to implement
29:21the commission's report. Keshav, Agarwal, you wanted to come in, go ahead.
29:27Now, we have been talking about this blame game since 24, and as far as paper leaks are concerned, we
29:34are only talking which came to the notice.
29:36There may be papers in online, offline, which get leaked and you never come to know.
29:40So, online papers, NIT PG was compromised just time, just a few times before NET exam was compromised.
29:48Now, I want to come with two concrete solutions and we have a lot of learned people and it is
29:53very simple to conduct this paper with limited resources and a full proof, no leak.
29:59And blame game will go, but now we need to give some concrete solution.
30:03Now, the NIT exam needs medical counsel also to agree to get it online because rationalization, normalization is a big
30:13problem.
30:13So, what simple solution I can put forward before you and this paper cannot get leaked as per the circumstances.
30:20The paper setters, today with AI in picture, you can set within 1 to 2 days, this NIT paper I
30:30just gave to AI, it took 10 minutes to solve 180 question and bang on, 180 question, bang on.
30:36Now, just get 8 to 4 for teachers for each subject, quarantine them for 2 days only and make the
30:44paper ready.
30:45And then on the day of the exam, just 3 to 4 days within, mail to the centers and get
30:52them printed there on a printer, just keep 2 printers.
30:56And when you have 500 to 600 students and you are mailing the paper on the day of the exam,
31:02here 2 o'clock the exam starts, 12 your child can come and when the paper who has made is
31:08inside the room and the child who gets the paper is inside the center, you print it and give it.
31:14How will the paper leak and today it takes just 3 days with so many experts.
31:19Second can be, you make 10 to 20 sets of the paper, 180 questions and randomly all 180 lined up
31:26in uniformly and give 88 or 99 from each set.
31:30How will this happen?
31:32Today, you are giving access to few, easy to leak and this quarantine will take 2 to 3 days in
31:38a very guarded facility with no internet, no mobiles.
31:42Under CCTV, the people who made the paper within 3 days and you know the admit card, this all process
31:49can be done before.
31:50So, once you finish this process, then you just have to mail the paper and the system is done.
31:55Why are you allowing people to go out and share the paper?
31:58You know, you make good points, you make very good points.
32:01I just want to, I'll bring you Nitin in a moment just to emphasize why I asked the accountability question.
32:07Only one conviction in a paper leak case since 2015.
32:10That sole conviction came in Haryana Judicial Services 2017 exam leak.
32:16CBI is probing at least 17 cases since 2015, no convictions yet.
32:21Again, enforcement directorate involved in at least 11 cases, no convictions yet.
32:25Neat 2024 case, Patna High Court bailed mastermind as CBI didn't file charges within 90 days.
32:32Our source is Parivartan again.
32:33So, how does one reform the exam system?
32:35You just heard Keshav giving some of those examples.
32:38But are there more?
32:40Nitin, you raised your hand, then I'll come to you, Anand.
32:41Because, you know, all of this requires in a way understanding surely with modern technology there are ways in which
32:48you can minimize the human interface.
32:51I mean, you're having the NTAs conducting over 26 different exams every year covering over 13.16 million candidates.
33:01The scale of it and the manpower consists of outsourced contract workers rather than permanent cyber security and assessment experts.
33:09So, do you believe that the change must start with the NTA or not?
33:17Yes, Nitin.
33:18Yeah, so I'm responding to the suggestion on the reform of the exam.
33:23I think you can kill two birds with one stone if you reform it just the way the JE exam
33:28is done.
33:29Because on one hand, you're reducing the risk of a leak.
33:33The second, and I think let's not underplay this goal.
33:37You are reducing student stress by giving them multiple opportunities at the exam.
33:42The NEET exam is a one-shot opportunity and therefore all the things that go into it, including the bad
33:48apples and what they do.
33:49But the JE exam is sliced into pieces.
33:52The student gets two or maybe three shots at it.
33:56Two or three shots in the same year?
33:58In the same year, yes.
34:00So, you have a JE mains attempt in January.
34:03Goes well.
34:05You think you can improve your performance.
34:07You can take it in April again.
34:10The top 20 percentile of that is selected to go and appear for the JE advanced exams.
34:17And then they have a shot at the top colleges.
34:20So, there are literally three attempts.
34:23What you've done within that.
34:25So, first of all, you've reduced student stress.
34:27The second benefit is the benefit of avoiding leaks.
34:34It's a computer-based exam.
34:36It's spread over many days.
34:37It's spread into many slices.
34:39So, even if there is a leak, it doesn't spread over 23 lakh students or, in the case of JE,
34:45over 14 lakh students.
34:46It spreads over a sliver of students in the odd chance that there is a leak.
34:50You have anyway mitigated the event of a leak by doing it in a computer-based manner on computers.
34:57So, unless the server is hacked, the risk of leak is minimal.
35:01But even if it is there, it is spread only to a sliver.
35:05And you can reconduct the exam for that sliver rather than the entire base.
35:09So, there are multiple benefits of following the IIT piece.
35:13I'm sure there are alternative solutions as well as was suggested earlier.
35:17But I think one which has been working for so many years helps students, works for the NTA.
35:25The NTA has experience in conducting it.
35:28Why not implement that solution?
35:29Anand Kumar, what you like to think is that this is a very big suggestion.
35:34That, as you can see, one exam is not 2-3 years, it can be a need to be a
35:40need to be a exam.
35:41So, stress is a lot of stress.
35:42We've never listened to UPSC exam in the UPSC exam, but there are leaks that there are leaks that there
35:49are no leaks.
35:49What you like to think is that there is a new thing that we need to make our exam system.
35:53Students and parents, how much stress is, how much pressure is, how much pressure is, that it can be reduced.
36:01We don't see pressure again, but we can make our new law.
36:05Now, we can have a lot of leaks from the UPSC exam.
36:07They have got very good exams, CVSE exam exam, some board exam exam, where are they?
36:12Where are you? Where are the leaks?
36:15We can't get leak from this case.
36:17Also, we can't understand the system completely roads that we have to restore it.
36:20We can tell it in the case of all the doctors, they call all the people.
36:24We are the Salutators, but we work with the children,
36:34foreign
36:37foreign
36:38foreign
36:39foreign
36:39foreign
36:39करते तो आप कह रहें आप क्ह Beni संद्वाराइज कर देना को कहाँ लिक होता है अरे शिस्टम को मजबूत
37:00करिये समझ अभी सरने बोला उनका हम सम्मान करते लेकिन इस बात से आइक
37:07foreign
37:14foreign
37:15foreign
37:15foreign
37:15foreign
37:16foreign
37:43foreign
37:45foreign
37:45that we don't have a shortcut in our life and if there is any coaching center, if there is something
37:51to give to the shortcut,
37:53then we don't have to get rid of it. So we will get to some level, then we will understand.
37:58One thing you said, let's get more voices in on that. Mahesh Perry, where do you stand on that?
38:04Is computerization which the government now says is the way we are going to go forward really the exam?
38:10As Anand Kumar says, you know, you are such a diverse country like India. Is computerization the only way?
38:17Rajdeep, it will be most unfair, unjust and inequitable as far as India is concerned.
38:22Because half the schools in this country don't have a computer. How would the child even understand how to switch
38:27on a computer?
38:27When the same conversation happened for J.E. Rajdeep, the conversation was that ultimately you are dealing with technology
38:33and these students would be STEM students, so you need to understand technology.
38:36The medical is totally different. These people don't understand technology at all to begin with and then move on.
38:42I understand that, sir, I understand where you are coming from. You can always have your space, right?
38:47Now the other part of it is Rajdeep, talking about the moral compass of the country and how we are
38:51conducting.
38:52You look at China, for example. China, Gaokawa happens, 13.35 million students, pen and paper, including an essay.
38:59Including an essay. And there is no leakage that happens because the system is foolproof.
39:03And by the way, what they do is…
39:05So what have they done? What have the Chinese done?
39:07Yeah. So it is treated as a national security breach when a question paper leaks there.
39:11Whereas we deal with it as a malpractice. So the moment you do that, psychologically you are very clear that
39:17you don't want to get into the sedition territory.
39:19You don't want to get into anti-national kind of territory. So there it's treated as a national security breach
39:25and everything goes after that from that perspective only.
39:28So for you, therefore, if someone is caught in a paper leak case, you would put what? UAPA on them?
39:35Whatever it is…
39:37You put a much more stringent law. You put a much more stringent law at them.
39:41It has to be very, very strict. It cannot be treated as a malpractice or a simple cheating case. It's
39:45not that.
39:45It is much beyond that because like right now the Honorable Prime Minister said you should not travel by, you
39:51know, in your own car.
39:5123 lakh students are travelling every day to the coaching centre and coming back. Who takes the blame for that?
39:56A couple of students have committed suicide out there. Who takes the murder case on that?
39:59So the issue is not about, you know, reforming a system and changing it which is inequitable to the entire
40:04country.
40:05The issue is simple that, for example, state and centre, Rajdi, CPSC students play a lot of claim on almost,
40:11you know, government of winter seats as compared to state board students.
40:14What is the mistake of a miserable student who is learning in the state school and actually getting 100%
40:19everywhere but doesn't qualify here?
40:21Because there is lack of coaching. So what I am trying to say is whatever policy that we do should
40:26not be unfair, unjust to a part of the country.
40:28I take your point, Mr. Subramaniam, you are shaking your head over this whole computer debate.
40:34You seem to believe that computerisation is the way forward.
40:37Absolutely. Without any doubt, we have, I mean, we should not underestimate our students.
40:43They have actually, their skills are really honed. Please, I think we are talking about the next generation.
40:50No, but Anand Kumar trained these students at super 30 and he says those in villages cannot compete with, let's
40:56say, someone in city who has grown up with a computer.
40:59They are actually doing in JE. See, it's not that JE, I mean, the students who are appearing for the
41:04engineering entrance, they are from urban areas.
41:07They are equally from the same place. They are able to do it. See, please, I don't underestimate the capacity
41:13of our students.
41:14They are really accomplished. You just got to provide them that opportunity. I'm 100% sure that this will happen.
41:22And having said that, I would like to say that we have to reduce the stakes in this examination.
41:30As he is being pointed out, it is possible that, you know, we should conduct this examination, you know, three
41:39times, four times.
41:39It is possible because we have the technology. We have everything that's needed to conduct it multiple times.
41:46So that one time that, you know, death, you know, one time death sort of a situation should not happen.
41:53No, but do we have the capacity now colleges to take so many students every year?
41:57We have to take so many students. What we do is that we will provide multiple attempts to each student
42:05in a particular year to appear for this examination.
42:08It is now highly possible. Technologically, it is possible.
42:11So you take whatever is the best score in your three or four attempts for the final for the final
42:17reckoning.
42:18This sort of a system is possible. You trust me. We have the full technology.
42:23We have the statistical techniques in order to equalize, normalize these things, and then bring out a faultless examination.
42:30You just got to, you just got to pick for this. That's all.
42:33Okay. Mayesh, you raise your finger. Go ahead.
42:36So the thing is, Rajdeep, I agree with sir about CBT to a certain extent. It has to be phased
42:42out.
42:43What you did in JE earlier also or many of the examinations earlier, Rajdeep, is you said metros will only
42:48have CBT and non-metros and all, you can actually opt for either CBT or written test.
42:53And slowly you phase it out over three, five years so that the system comes in sync with the national
42:58thinking.
42:59But to impose overnight, which is what currently the government of India is doing is imposing a CBT and saying
43:04that this is how it's going to work.
43:06I can guarantee you, Rajdeep, next year when we want to have a debate on this, the number of test
43:11takers will fall down from 23 and a half lakhs to less than 20 lakhs.
43:14That's my guarantee for you. Because that is what happened earlier examinations also. Whenever you change the model of the
43:19examination, many people drop out because they don't do that.
43:22I agree with sir about many things on CBT, by the way, but you look at other examinations also, Rajdeep.
43:27You take Andhra for example, where APM said there are two and a half lakhs test takers, but the moment
43:32you get into JE, only 50,000 test takers.
43:33Why does it happen? Not because they don't have national aspiration. Some of them also don't have a computer-based
43:38system.
43:39I'm not saying that we should not go ahead. Our youth are empowered. I'm not getting into that argument at
43:45all.
43:45I'm just saying that even if you're missing out or leaving out 10-15% of this population, we should
43:50be sensitive about their demands.
43:52You know, I want to ask, at the end of the day, there's an ethical challenge here.
43:56You know, we started off by speaking about the stakes involved.
44:00How do you, Keshav Agarwal, reduce the pressure on parents and our school system?
44:13That pressure, that pressure, there will always be people who will exploit the situation. Is there any way out of
44:20that?
44:20Do you see anything in any way that that pressure can be reduced? And I refer to coaching institutes also,
44:26who I keep saying, are part of the problem and they also need to introspect.
44:30Right. See, one thing which government itself has created problem here is giving unlimited attempts and no age bar.
44:40So, do you think a person above 30 has become doctor? Unlimited attempts.
44:45So, once you give it to three or four attempts, it will come down to 15 lakhs. Today, out of
44:5122 lakhs, many are just sitting or they keep sitting.
44:54So, like Jai, you need to drop the attempt. Second, the career counselling has to start in school that think
45:01beyond IIT and medical. Child doesn't know in CBSE commerce till class 10.
45:05Second, IIT, Sharma ji ka beta beti, comparison is the only thing and people are not educated to understand this.
45:13We need to explain to them ki ab comparison nahi hona chahi hai.
45:17Thesra, online exam, Jai, it is conducted over 10 to 12 days with glitches, questions dropping and normalization gets a
45:27flawed concept there. You cannot normalize a child. Wrong question.
45:32Fourth, NIT will be conducted over 20 days and then CUET is at the same time. CUET has so many
45:39problems. You ask Mr. Perry himself what kind of exam they are conducting and it has.
45:45So, we need to come out with a solution and medical association will not agree. How will you normalize over
45:5120 days this paper and you know remote access happens in this online exam where a child is just using
45:58the mouse and the paper is taken by some.
46:00And just see dark web, your UGC net was hacked one day before. So, we need to not talk again
46:07next year for this. Why we are going for a quarantine? The paper banane wala hi bahar nahi hai hai.
46:14It does not have wings or legs to go out. Yeah, because in this instance there is a fear that
46:20telegram accounts were used. Technology is often a step ahead and that's the fear also. Technology can be used by
46:27scamsters as well. Nitin, you put up your hand.
46:31Let's be clear and this is the first part that goes into any exercise that gets. What are the objectives
46:36that you're solving for? Do you want to reduce stress? Do you want to reduce the number of applicants?
46:42In JE, 14.5 lakh applicants. Our estimate is that only 2.5 lakh or so are repeaters. So, only
46:5112 lakh are the ones who appear coming out of grade 12 and starting to appear for the JE exam.
46:58In NEET, 23 lakh applicants. Our estimate is that about 12 or 13 lakh of those are repeaters. The point
47:06that was being made that because you've got unlimited attempts, no age bar. So, you will have about 12 lakh
47:14people who are repeating the exam and again about 12 lakh people who are just grade 12 students appearing for
47:20the exam.
47:20Now, grade 12 IIT, grade 12 NEET, you add them together 12 lakh and 12 lakh is about 24 lakh
47:27in a population set of 2.5 crores. So, let's put things in perspective. There are only 10% of
47:33people in India who want to become doctors or engineers who are in grade 12. There is a large part
47:39who's out there who don't want to become doctors and engineers and who are not sitting for the exams.
47:45So, I take your point but, you know, Maheshwar Perry, we've had now, we are coming to the end and
47:50we've had a very constructive discussion. My worry is governments seem to have never really foregrounded this entire discussion on
48:00examinations.
48:02A paper is leaked and suddenly the government goes into panic mode and now meeting after meeting is being held
48:08by Dhanmendra Pradhanji, the education minister who till a few weeks ago was busy with electioneering in Bengal.
48:13So, I just wonder, has it also to do with the fact that we need to prioritize these issues? Even
48:19Abhishek Singh, DG of NTA was appointed only on April 1. The exam was to be held five weeks later.
48:25He didn't even have enough time to get the systems together. Is the need now to have the best and
48:30brightest in terms of ensuring that these examinations, it can't just become another bureaucratic exercise.
48:36So, again, Rajdeep, there are two things to this. One is, I think we impose an entrance exam on everything
48:42and anything. I don't even know why CUET exists, honestly. A Delhi state topper cannot get into undergrad program unless
48:49he writes CUET.
48:50We have completely demonetized the school education to an extent where there is no value whatsoever for the school education.
48:57Unless we bring in some kind of a weightage which is also de-risking in a certain sense, it will
49:02always be that all the stakes exam.
49:03Everyone, you know, here talked of having too much stake in one single entrance exam. How do you de-risk
49:08that? How do you reduce the stakes by giving some other weightage on something else, hopefully, right? So, that's the
49:13first part of it.
49:14The second part of it is, we have education minister, we have NTA and everything like that, but I think
49:19we have anything other than education minister or anything other than NTA.
49:22We are actually having bureaucrats and we are having a cabinet minister who is dealing with an issue that's been
49:28handed over to them if a problem arises.
49:30Otherwise, they're not in it in sync with it in terms of how the examination is conducted. This is the
49:34first time I saw where the NTA chief was actually taking the questions.
49:38Right.
49:39If it had been conducted successfully, someone else would have been taking the applause also.
49:43Right. I take your point up, Mr. Suprapandiam. You wanted to make a quick point, 30 seconds.
49:48So, I just want to say that I totally agree that the school education system should be strengthened. I totally
49:54agree with it.
49:55And we have had some very constructive suggestions in the past on that. For example, I mean, let us look
50:01at a U.S. university, how they admit students.
50:03They don't take only by JRE score or SAT score. They look at what you have done in the past.
50:09You know, if you are a medical aspirant, have you participated in any medical camps? Have you served any of
50:17the underprivileged persons?
50:19So, they do a lot of verification of the activities of the student.
50:25We must actually give primacy to such kind of activities and then strengthen school education.
50:31I am 100% certain that that's really a good way to deal with this whole examination.
50:37And we also perhaps need a course on ethics, ethics in many of our schools. But I will give Anand
50:42Kumar Ji final word.
50:43And if you give an advice to children and parents, what do you give them?
50:47We want to say that children, parents, that they don't need to be in the short cut.
50:55The time coming is a very dangerous. Everyone will know each other.
51:00They don't want to become a bad doctor. They don't want to become a bad doctor.
51:13They don't want to be in the short cuts. They don't want to be in the short cuts.
51:18They don't want to be in the short cuts. They don't want to be in the short cuts.
51:20So, this is the work of parents and parents.
51:23Let's pray on that positive note of sending out that message.
51:27There are no shortcuts in life. There should be no shortcuts in exams.
51:31Because at the end of the day, this is as much an ethical challenge apart from anything else.
51:36You can bring all the reforms you want. But if society remains what it is, unethical, the stakes remain so
51:41high,
51:42there will be always someone out there trying to game the system.
51:46As I said at the outset, if we want to truly create a Viksit Bharat, which the Prime Minister claims,
51:51it's not enough to reduce it to a slogan or a pariksha pe charcha.
51:54It is more important to ensure that reforms and ethics come together as a wholesome fix.
52:01To all my guests for joining me here on this very interesting round table on our examination systems,
52:08thank you very much. And for you the viewers to join us, thank you.
52:12Jai Hind. Namaskar.
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