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The Child Rights Coalition Malaysia recently launched Malaysia’s first NGO Alternative Report and Children’s Report to the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child. The launch follows Malaysia’s recent dialogue with the Committee in Geneva after a 19-year reporting gap, and the Committee’s latest observations on the country’s child rights record. So what does this moment tell us about the state of children’s rights in Malaysia today? On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Thulasi Munisamy, Representative from the Child Rights Coalition Malaysia. She is also the Advocacy Lead at ECPAT Malaysia, and a Child Protection & Safeguarding Specialist at ENGENDER Consultancy and Asia Freedom Network.
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00:10Hello and good evening, I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This. This is the show
00:15where we want you to consider and then reconsider what you know of the news of the day. The Child
00:20Rights Coalition Malaysia recently launched Malaysia's first CSO Alternative Report and
00:25Children's Report to the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child. This launch follows
00:31Malaysia's recent dialogue with the committee in Geneva after a 19-year reporting gap and the
00:39committee's latest observations on the country's child rights record. So what does this moment tell
00:45us about the state of child rights in Malaysia today? Well, joining me to help us think this
00:51through is Telusi Munisawi who is a representative from the Child Rights Coalition Malaysia. She's
00:57also Advocacy Lead at ACPAT Malaysia and Child Protection and Safeguarding Specialist at
01:03Engender Consultancy and Asia Freedom Network. Telusi, thank you so much for joining me on the show
01:09today. Talk to us about the current situation, please. I mean, when we think about Malaysia's
01:14engagement with the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, where are we? Walk us through the current
01:21situation of the country's engagement with the CRC. Thank you so much, Melissa, for having me today.
01:29I also truly appreciate and consider this giving priority to children's rights and protection and
01:36also encouraging CSOs to be in your platform. So thank you. So how it works is basically
01:46we have the CSOs getting together, right? And we look at the situation of children and then we prepare a
01:54collective report. So CRCM did that, Child Rights Coalition Malaysia. We brought together civil society
01:59organizations, grassroots organizations. We spoke to them. We asked them, okay, can you tell us about the
02:05situation of children? Because they work at the ground level, kan? So they know the realities or lived experience of
02:10children. And then we put together this information. Of course, there's also research to substantiate all of
02:18those findings and data, whatever data that we get. In Malaysia, we put it in the report. And then we
02:25also
02:26then put our recommendations as to what we think should be the case for children's rights in Malaysia. And how
02:34can we
02:34mitigate those gaps? Whether it's strengthening policies or programs or services for children in Malaysia?
02:42Who has been left behind and who shouldn't be left behind anymore? And how can we address those things? So
02:47then we
02:48prepare this report and then we submit. So children this time, so for the first time, children also have prepared
02:57their own
02:57report. So they got together. They went and found information from other children as well. They spoke to
03:05each other and then they compiled their report and that was also submitted to the UNCRC committee. So after the
03:11submission was done, there was like an independent separate session where the UNCRC committee invited civil
03:18society organizations, including reps from Child Rights Collision Malaysia. And then there was also reps from
03:25Sean and Sean, Sean and Jesse represented Malaysia. They were two children who were involved in the
03:31children's report. And by the way, I think you should also interview them separately. So they participated in
03:39this UNCRC pre-session. So we had other civil society organizations apart from CRCM who attended, who
03:46participated, who dialogued with the UNCRC committee. The OCC or the children's commissioner from Malaysia was also
03:54there. So it was a really healthy, deep dialogue. And they questioned this. We also asked them questions.
04:03They addressed things in the report. And after that, they produced a list of issues. They call this
04:12document list of issues. There's some technical means for it. Basically, looking at what we have produced in our
04:19report, they generated a list of issues in the document. And then they issued out to the government
04:24in Malaysia, asking the government to respond to the list of issues. So the government responded.
04:31And then there was the also the civil society organization looking at what the government has
04:37responded, also sent in a joint statement. So it's a series of like, you know, advocacy that we do.
04:44Okay. And then after that, so after that was the UNCRC session, the review session that took place
04:50earlier this year. Okay. All right. So here we are currently. I do want to make a note that we
04:56have
04:56had Jessie on the show, Jessie Lim, who, Jessie Lee, who came on Consider This for World Children's Day last
05:03year. And she was amazing. But I think that's what I wanted to talk to you about, why it's important
05:09for
05:09children's voices to be heard, particularly in these types of stakeholder discussions and, you know,
05:15a report making and assessing the progress of child rights in the country. We have to speak to the
05:22children themselves. Can you talk to me, Jessie, about how the CSO Alternative Report incorporated that
05:30and why it, what distinguishes it from the official submission by the government to the UN committee?
05:38Okay. So one of the things I must say is this is the first time the CSOs have submitted locally
05:45from Malaysia. First time we've submitted. Although CSOs or child rights organization in Malaysia have
05:52compiled reports over the years. But this was the first time it was submitted actually to the UNCRC committee.
05:59So it's a big milestone not only for the CSOs but also for Malaysia because it's been a 19-year
06:05gap,
06:05right, that they hadn't submitted their report. So for us, it's really important and it's different
06:13from the government to the UNCRC report because we talk about the situation of children at the ground
06:20level. So we really look at the lived realities of children. So we have all these amazing laws, policies,
06:27you know, systems, procedures, programs and more. But how does it relate to children
06:33at the ground? Can they access it? Does it benefit them? How impactful is it to their protection,
06:41well-being, safety? Does it make a difference in their lives, you know?
06:45Okay, so then I definitely agree it's important that we do listen to children. What were they telling
06:52you? And why, what were the child survivors, the child victims that that CSOs work with,
06:59what did they tell you? And how was that incorporated into the CSO alternative report?
07:07Okay, so if you're talking about child victims and what they said, obviously, we are, we didn't hold
07:14focus group discussions with the child victims because of safeguarding and confidential issues. But
07:20we use information from civil society organizations who work directly with child victims and survivors,
07:26and we take that information, the feedback that they get, whether or not they can get access into,
07:32you know, the child protection systems, for example, services that that's provided by healthcare,
07:39they are the ones who told us that actually, for refugees, for example, and undocumented sailors,
07:44we can't access all of the hospitals because there is a directive or a circular going on that
07:50healthcare professionals are mandated or required to comply with KDN when you're circular that every time
07:57you have undocumented sailors, children, people coming to the hospitals, they are required to
08:02inform KDN and that's when the arrest, detention, everything happens. So, um, there's so many things
08:08that happen, right? And then child trafficking, for example, children who've been trafficked,
08:12um, they're also trafficking for child marriages and child marriages in this country, for example,
08:18is a complicated situation, right? It's so tricky. We've got the, we've got the Sharia law, we've got
08:25traditional laws, customary laws, and then, you know, and you've got the trafficking element coming in.
08:33So many of the times you have, um, trafficked children for marriage purposes, not being availed or given that
08:42kind of services or protection that they are required to have, or they should have been extended to.
08:48So, uh, they are excluded. And then you talk about, uh, the invisible children, the refugees, the
08:57stateless, the undocumented, are they, um, given the same access to the national, uh, child protection
09:03programs? No. Uh, can they access all the services? No. Uh, some of them can, obviously.
09:11Are they included in the national education system? No. However, the government will say,
09:16and they reported that learning centers are available and they are monitoring the learning
09:20centers, but learning centers punya modules and what is taught in the government school
09:27is two different modules, right? Two different curriculums. And how do you want to harmonize
09:32that? It's so difficult, right? As well, you give them access so they can straight away go into,
09:36uh, government schools, uh, and educational institutions. And it becomes complicated when
09:42you don't have identification. So they're not allowed to sit for exams. You know, they're not
09:47allowed to participate in competition and things like that. So it's hard. So the lived realities are
09:55highlighted or were highlighted in the report. And you know, when you talk about, uh, uh, helpline,
10:00we have Talian Kasih 15999, but how many of them can access and how many children actually received
10:08help from Talian Kasih? It was established initially as a dedicated 24-7 child health line, but it's been
10:16expanded during COVID. They take on all kinds of cases, right? Domestic violence, counseling cases,
10:21financial cases. So we don't, we no longer have like a dedicated 24-7 child health line anymore with,
10:29with, I must say, with professional competent workforce and with a back-end system, solid child
10:37protection case management system, information management system that kind of, you know, uh, um,
10:45brings or, or provides that comprehensive case management services for the child victims. You
10:51don't have that. So these were some of the lived realities or experience. I can go on, by the way.
10:56No, no, it's wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing.
10:59That we wrote in the report. Okay. So, so having said all of this, I, I do wonder, Thilesi,
11:05what is it that you're hoping government responds to from the report? You've, I outlined several priority
11:13areas. Um, what are you hoping, how would, how are you hoping they respond to the report that has come
11:20out recently? Okay. So, uh, before we go to the how, I have to say what were the five or
11:26six priority
11:27areas, uh, the UNCRC, uh, concluding observation as well as during the review, they already kind of
11:33shared, uh, one is on the withdrawal reservations and legislative alignment. So, uh, you know, Malaysia
11:40still still holds reservations, right? On the five key articles, uh, that's on, um, name and nationality,
11:46non-discrimination, et cetera. And we also need to then, um, because when you have these reservations,
11:53certain groups of children are then excluded, you know, or the arrest and detention of children will
11:58still continue because we, we still have reservations on article 37, for example, on protection from torture and
12:06unlawful detention. Okay. And our current law, for example, child act 2001, and this was discussed
12:12last week. You missed the launch event. So we had a round table discussion, uh, during which they
12:17discussed. And one of the things that they looked at was child act 2001. And what are those missing pieces?
12:24Because there's so many loopholes within the act. I was drafted. Don't know when can. So we need
12:30to align the child act with the UNCRC and the evolving standards, international standards on child
12:38rights and child protection. And we have to make sure that all of the other laws and policies, so we've
12:44got anti-trafficking laws, you've got the online safety act, we've got the education act, some money,
12:50all of this kind, we really need to make sure that it's aligned with the child act. It reflects UNCRC
12:56principles and standards and the concluding observation and all of that in it. So that's
13:02on withdrawal of reservation legislative alignment. Number two is on strengthening protection and justice.
13:08And I know that my colleagues, uh, Jill and, and Puan Siti were here and I need to stress this.
13:13I
13:13cannot stress this enough. We really need the child protectors. We really need the social workers from the
13:20public sector to be included in the bill. They have mandatory safeguarding duties for children.
13:26How can they be excluded? It's mind boggling. They have to be included. Okay.
13:31And this was one of the things that the committee recommended. And, um, and then we also have number
13:38three and I'm not going so much into the other bits. Okay. We obviously, they also recommended, uh,
13:43child friendly justice system. That means the workforce, the procedures, the proceedings,
13:48the, how you speak to the children, the communication style, you know, all to make sure that those things
13:56don't re-traumatize them. Because imagine you have been sexually abused and you have to talk to 10 guys
14:03or 10 officers and you're sharing the same experience again and again about your sexual abuse.
14:09I mean, how, how is it child friendly? It's not, you know, so, uh, to really establish a child
14:16friendly system, uh, child friendly justice system, and then to include refugees, migrants,
14:23and stateless children in everything that we do. So, one to end detention of children for sure,
14:30you know, kind of transition them from, from detention of children or, uh, or your children
14:35detention to family-based care, community-based care. And then also to make sure that, uh, and the
14:41UNCRC committee very strongly said this, to make sure that they can access all the programs, all the
14:48services that we avail for children in Malaysia. You can't exclude them because then it heightens their
14:53vulnerability. The other thing that they mentioned is on fiscal, uh, investment. That means fiscal
14:59investment is child-centered budgeting. And it's important because we have, uh, multi-sectoral agencies
15:06providing services, information programs, um, you know, for children. So, it's really to develop a
15:15child-centered budgeting, uh, using a child rights approach. And then you have to track them
15:20against the child rights punya standards and UNCRC and make sure that children's rights are then
15:27advanced. No one is left behind. The last one is on digital safety. And, you know, digital safety is
15:33so important right now because the hot topic, right? And, um, so the online safety act, they spoke
15:38about the online safety act and how important it is that digital literacy is availed to all children,
15:44children, remote children, disabled children, marginalized children. Um, yeah, I'm gonna have
15:51to interrupt you there. We're running out of time, but I can hear your, your passion and I completely
15:55understand. Thank you so much for highlighting some of these issues to us. I really appreciate you
16:00bringing this to our attention today. Telasi Munisamy from the Child Rights Coalition Malaysia. We're going to
16:06take a very quick break here and consider this. We'll be back with more on this topic in just a
16:10few minutes.
16:10Stay tuned. We'll be right back.
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