00:01Well, it's about time that Australia took responsibility for Australians who may have
00:07been involved with terrorism abroad, and our security agencies are very well equipped to
00:13deal with any past crimes or atrocities that they may have been involved in, or any future
00:19terrorist threats that they may pose here in Australia.
00:22The children, of course, are innocent victims.
00:25They are victims of terrorism, of child abuse, of, in some cases, poor parenting, and it's
00:32absolutely right that Australian authorities now try to help nine Australian children get
00:38back on their feet.
00:39They've missed out on education, on ordinary development as children, in imprisonment indefinitely,
00:46arbitrarily, in cruel, violent conditions in North East Syria, and they deserve a chance
00:53at a new life.
00:54You say it's absolutely right, but what are Australia's obligations towards these children?
01:00Well, Australia certainly needs to rehabilitate and reintegrate them, and this is the message
01:07coming from the United Nations Security Council and international human rights law.
01:12So it means they will inevitably need counselling for the kind of trauma that they've experienced,
01:18for instance, and the violence they've witnessed overseas under one of the worst terrorist groups
01:23on the planet.
01:25They'll need special support for education because they've missed out on formal decent schooling
01:31in the camps back in Syria.
01:33And they need all the kind of social services and support to get back on their feet and function as
01:41effective members
01:42of the Australian community.
01:43The AFP says there'll be arrests and monitoring once the group arrives.
01:49What charges would some of the women be charged with?
01:53So Australia has some of the most comprehensive and tough counter-terrorism laws in the world.
01:59And if you've had various forms of engagement with a terrorist group like Islamic State,
02:05there are lots of charges that could be available.
02:07Membership of an organisation, associating with members of an organisation, funding, recruiting,
02:14providing support, advocating terrorism.
02:18In addition to that, there are offences of merely entering an area which was previously declared
02:24off-limits by the Australian foreign minister, places like Raqqa and Mosul, without good excuse.
02:32And then on top of that, of course, Australia has international crimes, war crimes, crimes against humanity
02:37and genocide.
02:38So I think there's an allegation of slavery, which is a crime against humanity.
02:43So all of that should be charged and prosecuted if that's appropriate in individual cases.
02:52And Ben, would a legal challenge reassure those parts of the community who might be nervous,
02:57afraid of what could happen?
03:00Absolutely.
03:01I mean, I think the Australian authorities have had a very long time to investigate and build
03:07cases against anyone who has a case to answer.
03:10I mean, these people were in detention for six years.
03:14Australia has built a pretty large intelligence profile on them, including from partner agencies.
03:21So we've had lots of time to prepare.
03:24In addition, there are control orders available.
03:26So if you can't charge someone with a crime, but they still pose some kind of threat, then
03:31you can apply to a court for a civil control order to impose heavy restrictions on people
03:37to prevent them from any future engagement in terrorism.
03:42Can you remind us what happened to another group of women who returned in 2022?
03:47Ben, do we know what they're doing now?
03:50Well, this is in some ways a success story, because like is the case in many other countries
03:56who have returned thousands of their nationals in places like Central Asia and parts of Europe,
04:02Europe, it's usually a story of great success.
04:06If you take the right measures of rehabilitation and reintegration, it's very unlikely that these
04:12people will re-offend or become involved in terrorism.
04:17I mean, these are people who have learnt their lesson.
04:19They lived under a brutal Islamic State regime.
04:24Many of them were victims themselves of terrorism or trafficking or coercion by family members.
04:30And if you give people a second chance, coupled with the right levels of support,
04:36there's every chance that they will successfully reintegrate into our community.
04:42And that's certainly the case with the children.
04:45And that's certainly the case with the children.
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