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SportsTranscript
00:00I had, like, vivid dreams last night because my brain was on overdrive.
00:04I was so annoyed at how that game went.
00:08I don't remember them, but I know that there were a couple times where in my dream
00:12it was like, these are really intense dreams.
00:14I think the Cavs really pissed me off.
00:16Like, I had that thought floating around at, like, 3 o'clock in the morning.
00:19But there was a time I was driving in thinking to myself,
00:23am I pulling a punch if I say the Cavs should have won that game?
00:27Am I pulling a punch if I go, I actually feel better about this series after that game
00:32because they did everything wrong and still should have won that game
00:35and still just managed to lose it within the last four minutes to go?
00:38Yeah, I mean, not to insult your thought there, but isn't that, like, the prevailing thought?
00:43Yes.
00:43Right?
00:44But I'm also seen as the Cavs' hater for some reason at the station.
00:48No, I feel like, I don't know how anyone leaves yesterday's game thinking anything,
00:52but they probably should have had that one.
00:54It was a disaster for a multitude of reasons.
00:57Neither one of the core four, and there's no one in the core four I can talk about
01:00and talk glowingly about yesterday as if, like, unequivocally they were great
01:04or did their part.
01:05Like, they left a lot of meat on that bone.
01:08So with that, I've avoided talking about James Harden's game yesterday as much as I could
01:15because it is a trigger point for you and me.
01:17It definitely is.
01:18And obviously, you know, the fourth quarter doesn't happen without James Harden's effort,
01:24so it needs to be acknowledged there.
01:26Yeah, you scored some points in the fourth quarter.
01:27He scored 11 straight to then get you guys tied up at 93 apiece.
01:30And so, like, I...
01:31That certainly undoes those seven turnovers.
01:34It doesn't undo anything.
01:34The turnovers are the story, obviously.
01:37No one's going to make it anything but the turnovers.
01:39It's more than just the turnovers.
01:39It's always the turnovers.
01:40Well, the turnovers are a big part of this right now.
01:42And Schroeder's four turnovers don't get mentioned the same way that Harden's seven gets mentioned.
01:48Donovan's got more turnovers than assists in this series,
01:50but that doesn't get mentioned the same way either.
01:52In one game?
01:52I get it.
01:53No, no, no.
01:54Like, the entire eight games.
01:55Oh, in the playoffs.
01:56In the playoffs.
01:57In this game, too, yes.
01:57He's got more turnovers than assists in that one game.
02:00In this game, too, yes, he did.
02:01But also, in all eight games, he's got more turnovers than he does assists.
02:05Like, it's not just Harden that is having turnover issues.
02:08But, yes, was the fourth quarter a really great fourth quarter by Harden?
02:12And, yes, while also acknowledging it was too late.
02:14The Harden playoff gaffe was already written.
02:17And it's funny because I—
02:18The first three quarters were so horrible, he couldn't offset it.
02:21As the guy who hammered turnovers and, like, so much of my expectations for James are not,
02:28did you score 20 points last night?
02:30It's just, I would like that.
02:32But the most important thing is, are you getting other guys going?
02:35And are you protecting the basketball?
02:37I understand with point guards, especially guys who love the flashy pass like James does.
02:43And he does have incredible court vision.
02:44He can do the old spinneroony.
02:47The guy's a creative passer.
02:49There is a level of turnovers that come with that.
02:52I probably haven't acknowledged that I do think he's shown tremendous defensive effort in certain parts.
02:57There are other things.
02:58He's had a couple of nice rebounds.
03:00Like, it's not just scoring versus turnovers, right?
03:05Last night's the first time where I was like, oh, he looks washed.
03:09For those first three quarters—
03:10The first three.
03:11He looks—
03:12And by the way—
03:12It wasn't great.
03:13By the way, even beyond that, like, he still didn't look a fleetest foot in the fourth quarter.
03:19Once he started just basically going around Duncan Robinson, I don't know why it took him to the fourth quarter
03:23for him to realize,
03:24okay, just put your head down, go by Duncan Robinson, and then just get to the basket.
03:27By the way, why did Jimmy Neutron think to grow a mustache?
03:31Yeah, it's not a great look.
03:32He's like, you already look like a cartoon character, and your thought was, I'm going to grow a pedophile's mustache?
03:37That's Detroit.
03:39Detroit Robinson.
03:40Is that the Detroit stache?
03:41That's what it is.
03:42Yeah, yeah, yeah.
03:43Miami doesn't play.
03:44Yeah, that's true.
03:44He knew it wouldn't play.
03:45By the way, everybody, they go to Detroit.
03:48If you want to change your image, you just grow a mustache.
03:50In Miami, they'll just call you Vice City.
03:52They'll be like, you're playing into the stereotype a little bit.
03:54Detroit, you grow a mustache, all of a sudden you're unique.
03:56And you're the mayor.
03:57But it was so, I mean, it was so, again, the reason why you got to 93-93 was because
04:02of Harden.
04:03There's no debating that.
04:04But the first three quarters didn't offset what he did in the fourth.
04:06At least he came alive, though.
04:08Allen and Mobley, goose eggs as far as production in the fourth quarter.
04:12Jared Allen, to come alive, would have to be on the court.
04:15He'd have to be on the court.
04:16And we couldn't move Thomas Bryant out of the way.
04:19Again, just an absolute gaffe.
04:20I don't understand what Atkinson was doing in any stretch of that.
04:22It's interesting.
04:23So, like, this very topic, like, who's more to blame?
04:27Is it Harden or is it Donovan?
04:30And who do you put this at their feet?
04:31In between a break, like two breaks ago, I saw our buddies over there at FS1 with First
04:36Things First had that exact same topic out there.
04:38We had it first.
04:39We did.
04:40We had it on the sheet.
04:41It was all there.
04:41It was what it was.
04:42That's my baby.
04:43I thought of this this morning.
04:44Sure.
04:44And so, hey, you're doing something right because, obviously, they're doing it on the
04:48national level.
04:48They took our topic.
04:49They like it.
04:50But Broussard's answer was Jared Allen.
04:53He bypassed the idea that it could be Donovan.
04:55It could be Harden.
04:56And he went towards Jared Allen.
04:57And it's like, how is Jared Allen?
04:59Listen, Jared Allen played a miserable game, all things considered.
05:01He got 18 minutes.
05:03Yeah.
05:04That's on Atkinson more than it is anything.
05:07If you bypass anybody but Donovan and James, and not even just this game.
05:12You can throw Mobley in the mix a little bit if you want.
05:14Nope.
05:14But, like, it's got to fall at Harden and Donovan.
05:17It's got to.
05:17These are the two most important offensive players you have.
05:21And both of them, and especially last night, but in general, both of them have been
05:25turnover prone.
05:26And they've made a lot of very simple mistakes that make it look like they're panicking.
05:30And Donovan Mitchell nor James Harden should be panicking in a series against Toronto or
05:36a series against Detroit.
05:39And, like, I think it was Danny Cunningham that said this, and it was something that I
05:43thought last night.
05:43I don't think the Detroit Pistons were otherworldly, outside of their mind, good defensively last
05:50night.
05:50I think it was the Cavs.
05:52Sort of Harden himself said that.
05:53Yeah.
05:54The Cavs were the ones just giving away the basketball.
05:57It's not like there was some exotic defense.
05:59Yeah, there was some pressure applied there.
06:01Asar Thompson is a great defensive player.
06:03But, like, there were just a lot of silly, stupid mistakes.
06:06Mistakes, I don't have a problem if you say Donovan, and I don't have a problem if you
06:10say James.
06:11But if you say Kenny Atkinson, you're dead-ass wrong.
06:13If you say Jared Allen, Evan Mobley, even Schroeder with the turnovers last night, you're
06:18dead-ass wrong.
06:19Right now, the two biggest concerns on this team are Donovan has played like garbage, more
06:24often than not in the playoffs.
06:25I think James Harden has turned into the James Harden that I think some of us feared that
06:33would show up in the playoffs.
06:35The turnovers are a problem.
06:38No debating that.
06:39I feel like you're about to debate that.
06:42No, there's no way around it.
06:44Like, the turnovers, you have to fix the turnovers.
06:46And you just can't have a team that is littered with, I can't even trust you to hold on to
06:49the basketball right now.
06:50And when I'm losing faith and confidence in Donovan being able to be Donovan, or even James
06:55Harden being able, like, I don't trust James Harden for a perimeter shot to save his life
06:58right now.
06:59Like, that's a problem.
07:00That's something that, I don't know that they can just turn around in game two and get fixed.
07:05But we've been asking them now for eight games to collectively get on the same page, and
07:08we haven't seen it.
07:09So, I think Harden is the bigger concern.
07:13But it's more on how, like, to me, Donovan gets a shot off, Donovan doesn't get a shot
07:18off.
07:18That's a Donovan problem.
07:20James doesn't just affect James.
07:22He affects the other, you know, four guys on the court.
07:25So, the Cavs don't have a lot of guys that can create their own shot, and that's what
07:30James is here for.
07:31So, like, when we talk about the big struggling, 100% fair.
07:34How much of that is James Harden isn't getting the basketball?
07:37And I'm not trying to put disproportionate blame on James.
07:40It's just when James, as a facilitator, is a bleep show, I think it affects everything
07:46else the Cavs do.
07:47And I think that's a much bigger concern for me, especially if we're worried about him
07:51being washed, which, again, was a fear that popped up into my head last night watching
07:55him play.
07:56And I don't think he's washed, by the way.
07:57That's a bigger...
07:58I don't know.
07:59He's 37.
08:00And it is different to score, what is it, 28 and 7 in the regular season when no one's
08:07paying attention and no one plays hard in the regular season.
08:10This is the time.
08:11You don't find out January 3rd if James Harden is washed.
08:14You find out in these series, whether he is or not...
08:17But I think that's why the fourth quarter was encouraging in many ways.
08:19And I'm not going to try to make it a race the previous three quarters, but you do finish
08:2322, 8 and 7.
08:24Like, you did have a nice night, all things considered, if you remove the turnovers.
08:28The problem is we're at a spot where we can't remove the turnovers.
08:30And he gives no leeway to anybody else.
08:33And so then when Schroeder's got four turnovers and Donovan's got four turnovers, it just becomes
08:37a big problem for the team where you look up and it's like you're doing a little bit too
08:41much here.
08:412-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-9-2.
08:44What is a bigger concern right now, the play of Donovan Mitchell or the play of James Harden?
08:49Let's go.
08:50With Marcus in Aurora.
08:52Marcus, welcome to the show, bud.
08:53What you got for us?
08:53Hey, guys.
08:55Yeah, you know, you're talking about Harden's age and being washed.
08:59Mitchell's nine years in.
09:01We all know how many years Harden's played.
09:03And Detroit's backcourt is young.
09:07And youth is being served.
09:08They have more energy because they have more energy.
09:12The Cavs have played 90 games.
09:14I think, unfortunately, age is a factor.
09:18The other issue is, you know, J.B. and Donovan aren't having lunch anytime soon.
09:23And J.B.'s not going to sacrifice winning the game to stop Mitchell.
09:27But I guarantee you, he's drinking a cup of tea or a cup of scotch every time he makes Mitchell
09:33look bad.
09:34And I have a hard time believing that he's going to let Mitchell score 30 in any of these games.
09:40And they have to play every other day, too.
09:42So that's a big concern for me.
09:43I appreciate you guys giving me a voice, man.
09:45Thanks a lot.
09:46Marcus, we appreciate you.
09:47I mean, where's the takeover from Donovan in a second half that matters?
09:50You know, that's kind of what I'm asking for.
09:52And when your usage rate in the second half, Nick, Donovan's usage rate was lower than Thomas Bryant's was.
09:59That's just unacceptable for your number one player.
10:01In fairness, it's because Thomas Bryant gets on the court in the fourth quarter of an NBA playoff game
10:06and thinks he's Shaq meets Kobe.
10:10Schroeder, Bryant, and Struce had a higher usage rate in the second half of that game than Donovan Mitchell.
10:15Like, you're, like, act like a number one at some point.
10:18The funny thing is, I don't think with Donovan, it's age.
10:22And, listen, I don't want to say James is washed.
10:25Because, again, that was just an extraordinarily bad – that was the worst version.
10:29Those first three quarters were the worst version of James we've seen in these playoffs.
10:33So I do want to add that caveat, because I don't just want to blast James when it's not –
10:37I lean James because of his impact on everybody else.
10:40Donovan is just not – he can create shots for others.
10:43He creates it for himself more often than not.
10:46And that's the bigger problem right now is he's not doing that.
10:48But, like, I look at this and go, okay, but I think the Cavs are just –
10:53I think the guards are specifically just having problems getting through the pressure.
10:59And to me, that's a mentality thing.
11:02Like, that is a – that is a – your inclination is when you get pushed, you wilt.
11:07And that kind of goes back to the energy thing or the effort thing
11:10or where the hell we're going to call whatever Kenny Atkinson admitted last night.
11:14That's – if that's your mentality, if you're just not comfortable with that,
11:17I don't know how you get over that.
11:19Well, I mean, I think when you watch these guys, I think that's why –
11:21I mean, I've never seen a team boot so many basketballs.
11:23I've never seen a team just lose the handle the way –
11:26and this is where I criticize Harden in this.
11:28It's like, Harden's got some of the best handles in the game,
11:30and he's just – it's as if it's got, like, a bunch of baby oil on it or something,
11:36and it's just slippery.
11:37And it's like, how is this happening?
11:38James has been at the club recently.
11:42I said baby oil.
11:43I didn't say any other type of oil.
11:45If he just got away from the lusty leopard and went right to the game,
11:48there could still be some oil there.
11:49How did these basketballs get so lubed up?
11:51I don't know, James.
11:51I don't know.
11:52I don't know how it happened.
11:53But you're tripling like it's got a bunch on there.
11:54James can't use a door handle.
11:55James, meanwhile, has baby oil on both cheeks.
12:01I don't know what happened.
12:02I don't know how we got here, guys.
12:04I went boating before the show.
12:06I'm just not going to mention what kind of boating.
12:07Like, we've mentioned so much about, like, the mentality,
12:10and we do this a lot with, like, my Deshaun Watson thing right now
12:13where I think mentally just something isn't translating.
12:16Maybe it is just something with the playoffs with Harden where he gets on the court
12:19and it's just there's more pressure there and he just overthinks things a little bit too much.
12:23Whatever it is, between him and Mitchell, they've got to figure this out, though.
12:27Bigger concern right now, Donovan Mitchell or James Harden.
12:30Mike in Illyria.
12:31Welcome to the show, buddy.
12:32What you got for us?
12:33Hey, guys.
12:34You know what?
12:34I agree.
12:36Both of them are underachieving in this series.
12:39But don't you think that, you know, role players have roles, okay?
12:44Fair.
12:44Dean Wade is out there.
12:45Dean Wade looks like he's scared to death every time he gets the ball.
12:49He will not shoot.
12:51Jalen Tyson.
12:52I mean, or Tyson, he comes out in the game.
12:55He ends up with zero.
12:56Now, I didn't even know that Merrill got hurt last night.
12:59I thought Tyson played nice.
13:01But they got to score.
13:03I mean, nice is nice, but you got to score when you're out there.
13:07So, I actually kind of disagree with that.
13:09Like, in the playoffs, I expect my best players to score.
13:12He was also one of two players to have a positive plus minus.
13:14Like, he did a lot of things defensively.
13:16But they can't score every point.
13:18That's my point.
13:19And then, you know, I thought he did a great job of bringing Keon Ellis in because bring in some
13:25fresh legs because your guys are down.
13:27You need that.
13:28But then you got to get more out of him.
13:30And, you know, then you got Jared Allen who contributes, what, five points or something like that.
13:38You know, you got to have everybody, everybody clicking.
13:41And when everyone's not clicking, that then takes away some of the things that Harden can do.
13:48You know, he could pass the ball.
13:49But if you ain't going to shoot it when you get it, you got a big problem there.
13:54So, here's the cause and effect.
13:56And you're chasing, I think, the wrong side of this, Mike, and we appreciate you, buddy.
14:01Those role players, they produce when the guys ahead of them are producing.
14:07And I think it's as simple as that.
14:09When your point guard isn't turning the ball over and they're distributing the ball and you're getting good looks,
14:14that's when I expect you to make those shots.
14:16And he said something about Keon Ellis.
14:18I have no problem if Keon Ellis and Thomas Bryant had started the second quarter.
14:22Or if they got in with three minutes to go in the second quarter.
14:26I have no problem finding a role for those guys early in games.
14:30When we haven't seen them since God knows when, and you put both of them in the same lineup,
14:34and that's 40% of your lineup, when you have momentum, that's where it feels like galaxy break.
14:40I mean, I got two guys that I think played good games last night out of the Cavs.
14:43I'll throw Tyson in there.
14:45I thought he had a nice game.
14:46And Max Strews.
14:47Everybody else, I can basically play hack-a-shack towards their box scores.
14:51And then when I saw it with my eyes and give you reasons for why I thought they just not
14:55only didn't,
14:56I'm not going to say sucked, but didn't deliver.
14:58Is there a difference between sucked and stink?
15:01Yeah, not everybody sucked.
15:02There's a lot of people that just didn't deliver, and then some people just straight up sucked.
15:05Okay.
15:05Where's stink?
15:06There's a difference.
15:06On the suck-ometer.
15:07I think somewhere between the didn't deliver and suck, I think, is where stink lives.
15:10All right.
15:11And the Stink and Truth podcast.
15:12I didn't know if we were back at the strip club with James.
15:14I didn't know if we were back at the strip club with James.
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