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00:00Jason Lloyd joining us right now on the show. He's a terrible baseball manager, and he joins us on the
00:04Make It Right Call Conrad Hotline.
00:05Hello, Jason.
00:07Sorry, I was married too late. I was finishing up a football staff meeting there that I couldn't miss.
00:13Whoa! Shots fired right off the bat.
00:15We'll talk about that at the end of the interview, okay? Let's get down to business.
00:18Are the Cavaliers going to win tonight?
00:22They better.
00:23I want to know, are they going to win tonight? Because I said the same thing.
00:26They ain't going to lose tonight because they have to win.
00:29Yeah, I think they win tonight. I was disappointed how they played game four.
00:32Wasn't really surprised they lost three. I thought they'd lose one up there and then win the next two.
00:37They are the far superior team talent-wise. It's frustrating that this is a 2-2 series.
00:43I mean, look around the East. All these teams are, you know, Boston lost again last night.
00:49Detroit's clinging to their life right now. The Knicks got more of a fight than they thought out of the
00:53Hawks.
00:53I still thought that the talent disparity in this series, the Cavs were the far superior team.
00:58I thought they'd win in five. So, I'm really disappointed in sort of how I thought they laid down the
01:02last five, six minutes of that game in game four.
01:05Which is concerning because you can't do that on the road. I still think they win the series.
01:10They win tonight and they win the series.
01:11Can we say the series is over if they win tonight?
01:14No. Not after those two performances on the road.
01:17I mean, this is kind of playing out like the Orlando series from a couple years ago where they were
01:21up 2-0.
01:21I was like, yeah, this is a wrap.
01:22And then they went down to Orlando and they lost both.
01:26And then they came home and they were in a street fight for seven games.
01:28And that very well may be how this winds up.
01:30I think, I would like to think that they win six up there.
01:35But after the way they played up there the last two games, I don't know how you can be confident
01:39in that.
01:40I would say six, but not very confident.
01:43You got to understand how fairly depressing this is, is that this is a team that should be much better.
01:49And I should give the Raptors credit, but this is their first jump into the playoffs.
01:54We're seeing how Detroit's struggling with the brighter lights here.
01:58They are much more talented.
02:00They are not, they're a talented team.
02:02They're a more talented team.
02:03They are much more experienced.
02:05Sunday was an abomination.
02:06It seemed like they were just waiting for Toronto to die and Toronto would never die.
02:10And now they're stuck in this stupid spot where people are wringing their hands again, getting upset again.
02:15And I think what's most frustrating here for me, Jason, and I'm going to, I'll lay out and I'll let
02:19him ask you some questions.
02:20I know I'm bogarting the time here, but I've heard Nick and Anthony make wild proclamations about the Cavs, good
02:29and bad, and at each other, good and bad.
02:32And I still don't have an identity for this team.
02:34And I know they made a trade, but it's like I said earlier, you're nailing Jell-O to the wall.
02:38I had Nick who was questioning them all throughout the year, and then he's guaranteeing a sweep on Friday.
02:43And then I have you over here calling everybody idiots, saying they don't know basketball.
02:48And now he's saying he's not going to watch game six if they lose tonight, Jason.
02:52I swear to God, he meant it too.
02:54Go back on the tape on the free Odyssey yet.
02:57Who, Lima said he's not watching six?
02:58He said he ain't watching Friday if they lose.
03:00Not subjecting myself to that.
03:02Yeah, we both know that's not going to happen.
03:04The identity of this team is it's a guard-driven team.
03:08It's two ball-dominant guys, and when they don't play well, they crash.
03:12And that's what you saw in Toronto.
03:13And, you know, before the series started, I said the way that Toronto steals the game is play fast, create
03:19turnovers, and the Cavs met shots.
03:20Well, that's exactly what happened in three and four up there.
03:23The Cavs just turned the ball over way too much, and they can't make a shot.
03:27So they are going to live and die by the three.
03:30And when they die, it's a gruesome death.
03:32And that's what you saw.
03:34Now, I think that they, playing at home again and everything, everybody knows you play better at home.
03:39And I can't believe that Donovan and James have both played that poorly again tonight.
03:45So, again, that's why I think that they win five.
03:47But their identity is they are a guard-dominant team.
03:50They're very heavy-to-ball-handler-heavy guys.
03:53And if they both don't play well, if they both have off nights, the Cavs are extremely vulnerable.
04:00And that's not to let anybody else off the hook, because Evan Moby's got to be better.
04:03And nobody has championed Evan over the years more than I have.
04:06I wrote after last season ended, if they're ever going to get past the second round, it's got to be
04:10Evan who leads them.
04:12And clearly that didn't happen this year.
04:14And that's part of the reason they had to go out and make the hard and trade.
04:17So he's got to be better.
04:18He can't be pushed around.
04:20He's got to be better defensively.
04:21He had a couple great games at home.
04:24I think they changed up a little bit some of the way that they were guarding the Cavs pick and
04:28rolls.
04:30And sort of eliminated the bigs and made the guards shoot more.
04:33And the Cavs got to make those shots.
04:35Jason Lloyd with us.
04:36One of the bigger themes that I think has emerged that is troubling to me, you let me know if
04:42I'm alone on this,
04:43is that when they traded for James Harden, I said, hey, this evolved version of James Harden is going to
04:48be great.
04:49Because he's not the 2018, you know, Hall of Fame, but also heliocentric MVP version of Harden.
04:59This one is more cerebral.
05:00The passing that we saw in the regular season, setting guys up, seemed like it was his mission.
05:05And then we get in the playoffs, and I don't think it's James Harden's fault.
05:09I think the team is treating him like he's the 2018 James Harden.
05:14His usage has skyrocketed.
05:16They throw the ball to him with five seconds on the shot clock, and it's like, bail us out of
05:21this bad possession.
05:22How did it come to be that this version of James Harden is going right back to the version that
05:27we know cannot carry a team in the playoffs?
05:30That's a great question.
05:32It's a great observation, and I don't have a great answer for you.
05:36Other than, it's what I wrote after the crash shot against Indiana.
05:40We know how far a Donovan-led team gets, and that's not a knock on Donovan.
05:45Like, it's people that take it as such, but it's not.
05:48Like, undersized guards have ceilings in terms of how far they can carry a team when they're all by themselves.
05:53And maybe there's a little of that playing into it.
05:55I don't know.
05:56I don't have a great answer for you.
05:57But, yeah, I mean, I championed the Harden trade.
06:01I thought it was a great move.
06:02I thought they had to do something to sort of get the plane off the ground.
06:06And, you know, I wrote after game one that you've got two guys that have both had levels of postseason
06:13failure
06:13and now sort of relying on the other one to fix it and to get out of it.
06:17And James is – like, everybody talks about James' terrible playoff performances, and that's fair.
06:23He's got to wear them.
06:24But he's also had some really, really good playoff games.
06:27And this is a night where the Cavs really could use one of those tonight.
06:32All right, Jason, when you think about this organization and pushing the chips forward,
06:40saying goodbye to Darius, breaking up the core four,
06:43and we think about what could be coming for this team,
06:46how do you think they are feeling about this series but also knowing that, hey,
06:51the rest of the East is still wide open, none of the favorites have looked good at all,
06:56this still does seem open.
06:58Do you think their confidence is a little shaken, or do you think it's just a matter of,
07:03hey, they were up eight with four minutes to go in that last game?
07:06They would have been up 3-1, and that would have been a wrap.
07:09Where do you think their psyches are at this point?
07:12I mean, it's still – everything's right there in front of them.
07:15And you're right.
07:16The East is still open.
07:17I would probably still pick – I know I would.
07:18I would still pick Boston to beat them in a series.
07:21I still think the Cavs could beat any other team out in the field.
07:25But you mentioned their psyche, and I do think that's fair,
07:28and it's a little bit of a concern.
07:30And I'm curious to see how they come out tonight.
07:32Only because, like, was it game two at home?
07:37It was game two.
07:37And they lost game two last year to Indy, and they're in an 0-2 hole.
07:41I had someone from another team call me.
07:43I'm like, their body language is awful.
07:45Why are the Cavs so down?
07:46Like, they're the better team.
07:48Don't they realize that they're still the better team?
07:51And so that's the sort of thing that you sort of worry about with them is
07:56if they fall into a rut tonight, will that happen again?
08:00I don't think it will because I think that they know they're the better team
08:03and they're the more talented team.
08:05But going forward in the future series, when the competition level rises,
08:09yeah, I think that's a fair concern to have about these guys.
08:12I've never heard people talk about Evan Mobley the way they have in this series.
08:16It seems like there's been a national conversation shift.
08:19And, yes, we overreact to these games without a doubt.
08:22But he's being guarded a lot of times by R.J. Barrett.
08:25Those should be easy buckets.
08:27Like, he should be able to score on him.
08:29He's a big.
08:30That's a wing.
08:32I can't imagine that the Cavs didn't think or thought it would go anything like this.
08:36So it's making things hard.
08:39They've got basically only two guys they're guarding in the starting lineup.
08:42And that's why the pick and roll is not working because they're just sitting there in the paint.
08:46So this Evan series, the rest of this series, you know, just how monumental will it be for him and
08:53his future?
08:56I mean, he got paid.
08:57I don't know how monumental it can really be.
08:59He's a max player, so that's in the bank.
09:01He played well at home and he wasn't very good in Toronto.
09:05So they need the Cleveland version of how he played in the first couple of games.
09:09And it's in there.
09:11You know it's in there.
09:12That's been the maddening part with him throughout his career is you've seen the flashes and you've seen the bursts.
09:16And last year it looked like he really was putting it all together.
09:20And then this year it sort of fell off again.
09:22So it's sort of that inconsistency with him more than anything that I think is frustrating for fans
09:28and has to be frustrating for the organization as well,
09:30that you just want to see a little bit more dog come out of him, particularly in moments like this.
09:36So it's a big game.
09:37It's a big moment for him.
09:39I hope he meets the moment.
09:41But, you know, I can't say it's monumental.
09:42It's a first-round game.
09:43And they've got a lot more monumental games to come here, hopefully, over the next few weeks.
09:48I'm just looking big picture.
09:49Like, if for whatever reason this thing goes south and they don't –
09:54the levers that they can pull to continue to add,
09:57they don't really exist where they're at the double apron.
10:00And we'd be talking about a huge pivot from just the core of this team as is.
10:05They already saw the start of it with the Garland trade.
10:08So that's why I think it could be monumental because they were talking about Giannis trades last year.
10:12What else is in play, you know, if this thing goes south?
10:16Well, we're getting way ahead.
10:19Like, we can have this conversation in a couple weeks, but it's all Donovan-driven.
10:23And the key to this summer is getting him to sign an extension.
10:27And once that happens or whatever it takes to get that to happen,
10:31I think he will have a voice in how the rest of the roster is shaped.
10:38What do you mean by that, Jason?
10:40I mean, if he wants Evan here, Evan will be here.
10:43Well, I can't just snap my fingers and trade Evan.
10:46I've got to find the right partner and trade Evan.
10:50Giannis will probably be on the market again this summer.
10:53So we're just going to be able to get Giannis?
10:55Because, I mean, isn't he on record saying that?
10:59Well, isn't it reported that he's saying that, you know,
11:04Milwaukee doesn't really give him what he wants
11:06and he maybe would like a bigger city?
11:08And I'm like, well, if you're Giannis,
11:10wouldn't you just see Cleveland as Milwaukee East?
11:14I don't know.
11:14I'm just saying.
11:15I don't think it's as easy as, oh, we'll trade for Giannis and that'll be it.
11:18Well, I think Evan is probably the most appealing piece
11:25that Milwaukee could get in a trade for him.
11:27And, again, we're in the first round of the playoffs.
11:29I don't want to have this conversation right now.
11:30But these are all things that are looming down the road.
11:35It's not for today.
11:36But you can't help but think about it when it's a 2-2 series
11:39and you lost a sloppy game to a team that you're better than.
11:42Hopefully next week we're not having this conversation.
11:44Well, I won't be having this conversation with you.
11:45I'll be gone next week.
11:46I won't be here.
11:47Oh, well, congratulations on all your success.
11:50I work hard.
11:51Jason, do you like the Browns draft?
11:54You know, yeah.
11:55I would say everything that everybody else has probably already said.
11:58I said yesterday, I think the receivers are going to determine
12:03the success of this draft because I have no concerns about Fano.
12:07I do think that the size thing is relevant with him.
12:10And, you know, it's like somebody who wondered if maybe he is going to have
12:13to move to guard at some point.
12:15Certainly he's going to play left tackle this year.
12:16That sounds like a concern.
12:17You said he had no concerns and now you're moving him.
12:19Boy, why are you so concerned?
12:20Why are you moving guys around?
12:21He's going to play left tackle.
12:23Yes, this year he's going to play.
12:24I'm just saying, I think he's going to be on the Browns for 10 years.
12:26He's going to have a great career.
12:27He's an All-American, a left tackle.
12:28Why do I want to move him around now?
12:29Another flip-flop.
12:30Yeah, what are you doing?
12:32Okay.
12:32Maybe you should have went to a football meeting.
12:34Maybe you would have known more about football players.
12:36All right.
12:37Well, remember that.
12:38Remember that.
12:41Remember that.
12:42And listen, all I'm saying is I do think that the size thing is real with him.
12:48Staying at left tackle.
12:49Maybe he's so athletic he overcomes it.
12:51That very well it could be.
12:52And he plays 10 years at left tackle and he has a tremendous career.
12:55All I'm saying is I have no concerns about him being a Brown for the next 5, 6, 7, 8
12:59years.
12:59I think he's going to be a terrific offensive lineman no matter where he plays.
13:03The crux of this draft to me is the receivers because their playmakers have been so horrendous.
13:09And clearly they need an upgrade.
13:11But, you know, I mean, to hear people talk about Carnell Tate going into the draft was, yeah, he's good.
13:17He's going to help a team.
13:18But he's not this elite game changer that a lot of the other Ohio State receivers have come to be.
13:24And he goes 4.
13:25So, you see what I'm saying?
13:28So, the concern is how good are these guys really?
13:32And you're about to find out.
13:33If they hit on two receivers, then this becomes another home run draft.
13:38I just think the receivers are going to drive how good this draft truly becomes a year from now,
13:44two years from now, three years from now, how we're talking about it.
13:47Are these guys going to lead the next wave of great Browns football?
13:51Or are these guys Muhammad Mastaklaw and Brian Rubiski?
13:54You know, we'll find out.
13:55No one on this show said it, but it has been said on our station by somebody that if Ty
14:01Simpson was there at 24,
14:02maybe the Browns would have taken him or should have taken him.
14:05I don't think that the Browns were taking Ty Simpson if he fell to 24, but I want to know
14:09from you.
14:11No, I don't think they would have taken him.
14:14No.
14:15All right.
14:15Just wanted to make sure.
14:16That's all.
14:17Jason, sorry I couldn't make your party.
14:20I'm just messing with you, man.
14:21I don't care.
14:22There's plenty of people who didn't care enough about me to make it.
14:26What does that mean?
14:26I don't care about you?
14:28Is there going to be a 27th anniversary party?
14:31Will there be a 29th?
14:35That was not my idea.
14:36Clearly, that was not my idea.
14:38It was a fabulous event.
14:39It was good to see the who's who of Northeast Ohio journalism all together in one room without Ken.
14:44Was the guy who won't talk to me, was he at that party?
14:49No, he was not.
14:50Oh, okay.
14:51Uh-oh.
14:52You could have been like Jimmy Carter if he were there and I were there.
14:55Something brewing behind the scenes?
14:56I'll talk to him.
14:57He just won't talk to me.
14:58All right, Jason, thank you.
15:00Bye, boys.
15:01See you in hell.
15:01Jason Lloyd from The Athletic on the Make It Right, Call Kyle Wright hotline.
15:06Were you satisfied with those answers?
15:08I think you were.
15:10Yes?
15:11You're nodding your head.
15:12They can't see you.
15:13This Donovan game is just monumental.
15:14Yeah, but again, they're not going to lose because they can't lose.
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