- 2 days ago
The big talking point of this episode of News Today is the merger of seven Aam Aadmi Party (AAP) Rajya Sabha Members of Parliament with the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).
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00:01Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your primetime destination news,
00:05newsmakers, talking points. One of our talking points tonight, the Ahmad Mee Party's rebels
00:11merger with the BJP. Is it valid or illegal? Among my special guests, Vikram Jeet Singh Sani,
00:18one of the ARP MLAs on joining the BJP. Also, we'll be remembering Raghu Rai,
00:24the iconic photojournalist and the photographs he took over the years. We've got plenty
00:29on the show tonight, including guests from Russia on Russia's role in trying to resolve
00:37the deadlock between Iran and the US. But first, as always, this Monday night,
00:42it's time for the Nine Headlines at 9. High-pitch campaigning in Bengal ends. Prime Minister
00:49Modi makes an emotional pitch to Bengal's voters. Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee accuses the BJP of
00:56trying to use money and muscle power to intimidate voters, insists she will score a double century
01:02again. A DMC MP's car is vandalized by goons in Arambag. Abhishek Banerjee blames the BJP for the
01:11attack. BJP denies any hand, calls it a clash between two DMC groups.
01:19Arvind Khejriwal chooses Satyagra, boycotts the high court hearing, claims loss of faith in Justice
01:26Sharma's bench, who declined Khejriwal's request to recuse herself from the matter in the Delhi
01:33Nika policy scam case. BJP reaches closer to a simple majority in the Rajasaba after the Rajasaba
01:47chairman approves the plea of seven AAP MPs to merge with the BJP. Raghav Chadha claims that a toxic
01:54atmosphere in the AAP was responsible for his switch to the BJP. A severe heat wave grips India, 95 of
02:06the world's top 100 city, hottest cities reportedly located in the country. School timings changed in
02:13Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan due to the sweltering heat.
02:20Iran offers to end its chokehold over the Strait of Hormuz if U.S. lifts its brocket and ends the
02:26war. Also proposes to discuss its nuclear program in a later phase. Reports say Trump unlikely to
02:34accept Iran's offer. Russia could play a mediator now. Deadlock in West Asia continues. Iran Finance
02:43Minister Arakchi. Foreign Minister Arakchi meets Putin, blames excessive demands by U.S. for failed
02:50talks in Pakistan. Putin vows to keep supporting Iran in the Gulf. Amid Trump versus NATO allies battle,
03:02German Chancellor says U.S. humiliated by Iranian leadership questions United States exit strategy
03:09in the Iran war. Before firing shots in the White House, the shooter had written a letter to his
03:17family where he referred to sexual misconduct charges against the U.S. President. Trump denies the
03:23charges, slams the media for reading out what he calls is a radicalized manifesto.
03:35But our top story tonight. Campaign has ended for the high stakes, high voltage final phase of
03:42assembly polls in battleground Bengal, where polling will take place on the 29th, that's day after
03:48tomorrow, in what is one of the most fiercely contested elections in recent times. While Prime
03:54Minister Narendra Modi held a roadshow in Barakpur, Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee took to the streets
04:01of Kolkata, taking a six-kilometre padhyatra through the streets of Kolkata in the afternoon.
04:09Electioneering also seeing some ugly scenes. TMC MP Mitali Bagh's car was attacked in Hooghly.
04:17The TMC blamed the BJP for the vandalism. In East Bardoan, TMC and BJP workers clashed in the
04:26second phase on Wednesday. Voting will be conducted in 142 constituencies. The first phase has seen a
04:34nearly 93% turnout. Will the second phase match it? Just to get a quick takeaway on all that's
04:43happened on this last day of campaigning and what lies ahead in the next 48 hours, Indrajit Kundu joins
04:48us. Indrajit, I'm told the election commission has once again issued a stern warning to police officers
04:54and police superintendents of police to ensure that all troublemakers are apprehended before the
05:01voting on the 29th. We've seen already a couple of scenes of violent clashes today. What is the sense
05:08you're getting? The first round relatively peaceful. The stakes much higher now. This is Mamata Banerjee's
05:14bastion that comes into play in round two. What are you picking up in terms of what are what is
05:19the
05:19kind of security arrangement to ensure that this election is free of intimidation?
05:30Well, you know, massive, massive security arrangement has been put in place. In fact,
05:34there are police observers across districts. There are, you know, visuals that have now been posted
05:39by the CAPF officials where they have shown how armored vehicles have been deployed. There are senior
05:48officials, IPS officers who are brought in from UP who have been placed in key locations. And, you know,
05:54they have also been doing the round across districts trying to create confidence building measures.
06:00More than 1,000 people have been apprehended so far by the police administration who are known to be common,
06:07you know, anti-social elements, as they say, in local areas. Last night, there was a scuffle in North 24
06:14Pargana
06:14district that involved former BJP MP Arjun Singh. This morning, you know, TMC MP Mitali Bagh, her car was
06:22vandalized. So, the entire situation on the ground remains extremely surcharged. As you just rightly pointed out,
06:30it was a very, very surcharged political campaign with not just West Bengal Chief Minister, but even the
06:37Prime Minister and the Home Minister laying siege here in West Bengal. And finally, curtains are down
06:42on this high-profile campaign. The cool-off period before the mega final phase elections that take place
06:50on 29th of this month. You know, the fact is that the Prime Minister, Indujit, has also made an emotional
06:57pitch through a letter that he's written, open letter to the people of Bengal. He's also put out
07:02a video message, which through AI has been put in Bengali. Mamta Banerjee is accusing the BJP of
07:08misusing money, muscle power and election commission. Is this being pitched on the ground as Modi versus
07:15Mamta? Is that the way it's being pitched there at the moment as the campaign ended today?
07:23Well, it does seem so. You know, the Prime Minister has been at the helm of the campaign as far
07:28as the BJP is
07:29concerned, from his Jhalmuri rendezvous to his boat ride on the Hooghly. And now, a Bengali message, a message,
07:38an audio message in Bangla, as well as a letter, an open letter. This is the second open letter to
07:43the people
07:43of West Bengal. So, the BJP has really gone all out and almost seems like it is Mamta versus Modi,
07:50as far as this battle is concerned. The BJP, of course, hasn't spelled out who is their face in West
07:56Bengal. But Amit Shah has cleared that if the BJP comes to power, it is going to be somebody from
08:00the
08:00sun of the soil. But as it, you know, weighs in right now, it is Mamta Banerjee, the incumbent
08:06Chief Minister versus the Prime Minister, Narendra Modi.
08:08I'm going to leave it there, Indajit Kundu. We'll, of course, have our exit poll out from 5 p.m.
08:14onwards. That's day after tomorrow. Now, it's for the voters of West Bengal to decide who they wish
08:21to choose in the big battle for Bengal. Let me turn to another battle that's taken place because the
08:28Amadmi Party's seven MPs, who defected and then merged with the BJP, have now been given permission.
08:37The merger has been cleared by the Rajya Sabhar chairperson, meaning that the BJP's numbers have
08:45strengthened, closing in on a simple majority in the upper house. At the same time, the Amadmi
08:52Party's footprint has gone down from 10 to just 3 now, with the approval by the chairperson of that
09:00rebellion led by Raghav Chadda. The Amadmi Party is crying foul, demanding that a decision should first be
09:06taken on its petition to disqualify the rebels. Here's a report.
09:10We have decided that we, the two third members of parliament belonging to the Amadmi Party
09:19in Rajya Sabhar, exercise the provisions of the constitution of India and merge ourselves
09:26with the BJP. We have decided on the BJP.
09:36Rajya Sabhar chairperson has now approved proposal for all the seven Amadmi Party MPs to join the
09:42Bharatiya Janata Party. Releasing a fresh video, Raghav Chadda, while thanking his well-wishers,
09:49is charged at his former party.
09:52Rajya Sabhar.
09:53Rajya Sabhar.
09:55Rajya Sabhar.
09:56Rajya Sabhar.
10:02Rajya Sabhar.
10:09Rajya Sabhar.
10:11Rajya Sabhar.
10:12Rajya Sabhar.
10:23Rajya Sabhar.
10:27Rajya Sabhar.
10:29Rajya Sabhar.
10:31Rajya Sabhar.
10:33Rajya Sabhar.
10:33Rajya Sabhar.
10:33Rajya Sabhar.
10:33Rajya Sabhar.
10:34Rajya Sabhar.
10:34...for their leadership and support them,
10:38...not that there is no decision on them,
10:39...not that there is no decision on the chairman.
10:42The whole country will be concerned about this,
10:45...that what is the power of the government and the government,
10:49...is the power of the government to protect them.
10:54After the shift, BJP's strength in the Rajya Sabha rises to 113 MPs.
11:00This development is likely to impact legislative dynamics
11:04and voting arithmetic in the parliament.
11:07With Ashutosh and Pooja Shali, Bureau Report for India Today.
11:13So let's raise some big questions.
11:15Has this merger with the BJP of the ARP, is it valid or illegal?
11:20Did the Rajasabhad Chairperson act in haste in allowing the merger to go ahead?
11:25Is it time to review anti-defection laws in the country?
11:28My first guest is Abhishek Manu Singhvi, Senior Congress MP and eminent jurist.
11:34Appreciate, Dr. Singhvi, you joining us.
11:36Let's be very clear.
11:37Seven out of ten of the ARP MLAs defected joined the BJP and said they had merged.
11:43That's more than two-thirds, which effectively means that it's a split followed by a merger
11:48and therefore many believe it doesn't attract the anti-defection law.
11:52Do you agree or not?
11:54I'm quite astonished, Rajdeep, at the lack of legal knowledge, familiarity with elementary
12:01principles of law.
12:03And though it might sound technical, allow me a minute to explain to your viewers why
12:07this is wrong completely.
12:09The tenth schedule has a paraphrase.
12:11Four, it makes a deeming fiction exception that something will not be considered defection
12:17if two, not one condition is satisfied.
12:21The whole disinformation is that only one condition is required to be satisfied, that you two-thirds
12:27in a legislature party agree.
12:28That's so fallacious of the face of the text.
12:32Two conditions are required.
12:33Condition one, a political party X must agree to merge itself.
12:39Remember, the word is political party with Y or X with another political party forms a
12:47new party Z.
12:49And secondly and cumulatively, separately and cumulatively, the legislature party of that
12:57political party, two-thirds of those approve of such merger.
13:03Now, that is number one, textually so elementary, it is written in black and white.
13:09Dr. Singhvi, Dr. Singhvi, I'm sorry to push back.
13:12That's not what, no, no, one minute.
13:13Allow me a minute.
13:13That's not what happened in Goa.
13:15I'll give you the example of Goa.
13:16In 2022 and 2023, when a group of Congress MLAs decided to switch to the BJP, the Bombay
13:24High Court ruled in their favor.
13:26The Bombay High Court didn't say that the Congress, that the Congress party has decided to merge
13:31with the BJP.
13:32Allow me just a couple of minutes more and you will continue to be shocked more and more.
13:36So, first is the text.
13:39Second, the text uses two different words.
13:43Condition one uses political party.
13:46Condition two, the constitution uses legislative party.
13:49So, in the Shiv Sena Subhash Desai case, the exact argument was made that please conflate and
13:59treat political party and legislative party as the same.
14:03The court specifically in Paras 103 and 105 negatives it.
14:09Supreme Court.
14:10I can show you the text.
14:12No, no, I know it.
14:12In 2023, sir, sir, 2023 Chandrachut judgment in the Shiv Sena case runs counter to what was
14:20decided in the Goa cases.
14:22So, there are different judgments whether MLAs on their own can defect or the party have to
14:26merge.
14:27How can Chandrachut judgment in the Supreme Court run counter to a High Court Rajdeep?
14:32Please don't say that.
14:34Chandrachut judgment so-called is Subhash Desai in the Supreme Court.
14:38Yes.
14:38What you are citing is a Goa judgment.
14:40Yes.
14:40What you should add, that's my point number three, that Goa judgment is now pending in
14:44the Supreme Court.
14:45And I have no doubt that if it is decided, it has not been decided, it will have to follow
14:50the law of Subhash Desai.
14:51Now, two more points very quickly.
14:53Apart from that, there is a High Court Punjab and Haryana judgment of Kuldeep Bishnoi.
14:59It says in black and white in para 22, 23 and 37 that not one but two conditions have
15:05to be satisfied.
15:06And then there is another Bombay High Court judgment in 2016 by a full bench.
15:12Bombay High Court or any High Court full bench means three judges sit.
15:15Normally, judges of High Court sit in two.
15:17That is Shah, Farooq, Shabeer.
15:19They again say it's a cumulative twin condition.
15:22Now, what has happened here is that A, astonishingly, and remember, the Honorable Chairman or the
15:29Speaker are only an adjudicator under the 10th Schedule.
15:31They are supreme in the affairs of the House but not under the 10th Schedule.
15:35Remember that.
15:36The Chairman and the Speaker are subject to full judicial review in their capacity as the
15:41presiding officer of the House.
15:43They have, astonishingly, what is written in these judgments, I have given you the paras,
15:48they must examine the claim to see whether the political party, in this case AAP, decided
15:56to merge with another political party and, cumulatively, the two-thirds of the legislature party, a different
16:03word used in the same act, agreed.
16:05Now, it is common ground that the AAP did not intend to, did not try to, did not merge with
16:10anybody.
16:11So, there is no point picking up one condition of the Rajya Sabha and saying seven out of
16:16ten have agreed.
16:16So, you are saying that the Chairman, in conclusion, am I to say that you are saying the Chairperson
16:22acted in haste, that he should have examined the Chandrak Choo judgment and you believe that
16:28until the legislature, until the AMRB party had decided to merge with the BJP, what the
16:34legislature party does is deemed illegal and void.
16:38Am I correct?
16:39The answer to all is yes.
16:41After adding that the Honourable Chairperson acts as an adjudicator in this role of 10th
16:47schedule, he is like a judge and he is subject to judicial review.
16:50He has erred, he has in fact acted too much in haste by not giving a reasoned order.
16:55As far as I know from the press, the AAP had filed a complaint before him.
17:00Without giving a reasoned order, how can he recognize seven people as a merge group
17:05with the BJP?
17:06They are liable to defection.
17:08Okay.
17:08They are liable to defection law because they have not even attempted even the claim of the
17:13seven does not suggest that the political party AAP had made any move to merge with
17:18any political party.
17:19That means condition one stated by the Supreme Court, by Bombay High Court and by Punjab and
17:24Rana High Court is not fulfilled.
17:25Yeah, but as I said, there are conflicting judgments, sir.
17:28The Goa case conflicts with what happened in Maharashtra.
17:30Goa conflicted judgment on this, sir.
17:32The text is clear.
17:33Okay.
17:34Okay.
17:34I have no doubt about it.
17:35Let me leave it there, Dr. Singhvi.
17:37You've given us one perspective.
17:39I appreciate, as always, you joining me.
17:41I want to get another perspective.
17:42Mukul Rodgi, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court, former Attorney General of India, now joins us
17:48on this entire defection that's taken place in AAP.
17:51Mr. Rodgi, appreciate your joining us.
17:53Within 72 hours of AAP party's seven MPs switching over, claiming that they have merged
17:59with the BJP.
18:00The chairperson of the Rajya Sabha has approved the merger.
18:03Do you believe this is fine in law?
18:05Do you believe there's a constitutional infirmity in the way in which this decision was taken
18:11allegedly in haste?
18:17No, see, Rajdeep, we can have a debate whether defection should be allowed or not at all.
18:25That is on a different plane.
18:27But once the law under the 10th schedule to the constitution provides, that if two-thirds
18:35of the legislature party, MPs or MLAs in a house want to defect, defect is the real phrase,
18:46they can defect provided they merge with another party, the number being two-third.
18:54In the earlier days, it used to be one-third, now it is two-third.
18:58So, two-thirds of 10, I believe, is seven or a little less than seven.
19:05So, if seven have gone, then they are protected by the 10th schedule.
19:11The fact that the numbers are known, there is no dispute on the numbers of the strength
19:18in the upper house and the numbers going, I don't think the chairman had any option but
19:25to accept it.
19:26Can I just put a caveat to what I heard and Dr. Singhvi said that just now.
19:31A constitution bench of the Supreme Court in 2023 under Justice Chandrachur deciding on
19:37the split in the Shiv Sena and Maharashtra said that two-thirds of the members joining another
19:42party at the legislature level must also be supported by what is happening in the parent
19:47party outside the assembly.
19:49So, the political party must not merge only in the legislature but it has to also merge
19:55outside.
19:56That's one inference from the judgment.
19:58Mr. Kejriwal has not merged with the BJP.
20:01I don't think that inference is called for.
20:07I can read to you the provision.
20:10The provision clearly says that the legislature party means those, it comprises of people who
20:17are in the seat in the house concerned.
20:21So, AAP has a legislature party, say of 10 people in the upper house, two-thirds thereof
20:28want to go because if you look at the political party, who are the members of the political party,
20:36that's an amorphous body.
20:37It will be impossible to have a certain, I mean, a party will have the lakhs of members.
20:43So, you can't have an indeterminate kind of a situation.
20:47This is the will of those two-thirds and they have gone under the law, they are protected.
20:53We can have a debate.
20:55According to me, in my humble view, this defection business should not be protected at all.
21:02Even if one person leaves his party, which has given him the post, whether in Lok Sabha,
21:10in Rajya Sabha or people have elected him in Lok Sabha, if he is on that mandate,
21:16he chooses to quit that mandate, then it should be deemed to be a resignation and out you go.
21:23You know, you are making a very important point.
21:25You are saying, Mr. Rotgi, that under the way you see the anti-defection law as it stands
21:29under the 10th schedule, forget about one-third of the MPs, two-thirds.
21:35Any individual, MLA or MP, leaving a party under which he or she has been elected
21:40should be made to submit his resignation or her resignation and then fight for re-election.
21:46Am I correct?
21:46You want a change in the law?
21:49Yes, you are right.
21:50These are the highest traditions of a democratic nation.
21:54This idea was you don't have Aya Ram Ghaeram.
21:57Now, you had Aya Ram Ghaeram in one form, in one-third.
22:01Now, you have Aya Ram Ghaeram in the form of two-thirds.
22:04Just because numbers are increased from one-third to two-thirds,
22:08that does not give it legitimacy of the fact that you are cutting the very branch
22:14on which you are sitting by saying, I give two hoots to the party which elected me
22:18or to the people of a constituency which elected me.
22:21I give them two hoots.
22:23That's not correct.
22:24Okay.
22:24Because ultimately, public is the master.
22:26They are the sovereign.
22:28And this is not discharging a debt to the public who have elected you.
22:33According to me, it requires a re-look by parliament at the earliest.
22:38And this provision should be done with it.
22:40So, in conclusion, what you are telling me, the Ahmad B party MPs who have defected to the BJP,
22:46as the law stands today, the chairperson of the Rajya Sabha was justified in declaring them members of the BJP,
22:52legitimizing the merger.
22:53But what you are calling for is a complete change in the law itself to declare any defection illegal ab
23:00initio.
23:01Am I correct?
23:03Yeah.
23:04So, Rajdeep, the only can be it.
23:06The chairman has to be satisfied that seven out of ten have actually signed their letter.
23:17It's not forged.
23:18And we have had those cases also.
23:21And it was done voluntarily.
23:23And they are going.
23:24That's the end of the matter.
23:25That's the end of the inquiry by the chairman.
23:27Okay, I'm going to leave it there.
23:29Two clear different views emerging.
23:31Abhishek Manu Singhvi saying the chairperson's action is not in accordance with the law.
23:36Mukul Rhodgi saying it follows the letter of the law, but he wants a complete change in anti-defection laws.
23:42Okay.
23:42Now, one of those seven Ahmad B party MPs who defected to the BJP is Vikramjit Sani.
23:51And I spoke to him a short while ago.
23:54Listen in to what he had to say as why he left the ARP for the BJP.
24:04I'm joined by one of the seven ARP MPs of the Rajya Sabha who have switched over to the BJP.
24:12I'm joined by Vikramjit Singh Sani.
24:14Appreciate you joining us, Sani Sahib.
24:17Thank you very much.
24:17I remember you from the days when you used to campaign for Dr. Manmohan Singh in the late 1990s.
24:24You were seen to be close to him and the Congress party.
24:27Then you switched to the ARP, got Rajya Sabha.
24:29Now you become a BJP MP, merged your party with the BJP.
24:34How do you respond to those who will say, Ukta Suraj?
24:37You go with the rising sun.
24:39Where there is power, there is Vikramjit Singh Sani.
24:45No, no, no.
24:46It's not a question of power.
24:48We go, in this case we go by the, where the human, the humanity or public at large.
24:57And now in this case where the Punjab and Punjabis can benefit the more.
25:02You know that Punjab has been driven to a point of no return now.
25:07There is no crisis which is not there in Punjab from A to Z.
25:14From agrarian, crop diversification, water going down, debt crisis, the brain drain problem.
25:24You know, you name it and it is there.
25:26Trade and industry means n number of problems.
25:30And you know the burjuving debt is touching four and half lakh crore.
25:35So it's not question of rising sun.
25:37It's the, we, we want shining sun on Punjab.
25:42As it was before.
25:44You want shining sun on Punjab but you only woke up to this, Mr. Sani, with due regard.
25:50Sir, sir, with due regard, all these problems you've listed out existed one year, two years, five years ago.
25:57You seem to have woken up to it only today.
25:59Suddenly you've realized that you want the shining sun in Punjab.
26:03I want an honest answer from you.
26:05What was the reason for you to join the BJP?
26:09What made you join the BJP?
26:11First of all, thank you.
26:15First of all, I'm not five years or something.
26:17I've just completed three years, whatever.
26:19And we, I was always raising issues of Punjab.
26:22But no, it was not, it was multiplicity of reasons.
26:27One was you have to see the AAP political, this polit bureau which you call.
26:34I was not a member of this polit bureau.
26:38But look at the level, the Raghav Chadda and Sandeep Pathak and to some extent Swati Malival.
26:47She was chairperson of Women's Commission.
26:50But these two gentlemen were responsible for the, getting the thumping majority of 94 MLAs in Punjab.
26:58I hope you will agree.
26:592022, you were there.
27:01I was, I was watching from a distance.
27:03And we are joined because I met Raghav Chadda first time at the World Economic Forum where you used to
27:10go during your earlier times at Davos.
27:13And then somehow we clicked and then he said we want nice people and whatever, whatever.
27:19So that we, we took the Rajya Sabha seat.
27:25But now since these three core members were sidelined,
27:29Okay, they are saying that we are bad.
27:33So I was thinking in the morning that Kabir Ji's prayer,
27:38Kabir, I see what is bad, I don't get bad, I don't get bad, I don't get bad, I don't
27:45get bad, I don't get bad.
27:46So before they need to introspection.
27:49These are our three pillars or two pillars.
27:53The pillar was the main foundation for Punjab.
27:57Now they have the side line.
28:00They have the side line.
28:01The pillar was shunted out of Punjab.
28:03Sorry to say.
28:04And Sandeep Pathak,
28:05The people who come here,
28:08IIT came here,
28:09I said,
28:09Vikram Ji, what do I do?
28:11I said,
28:12IIT went to study,
28:13I said,
28:14I said,
28:14I said,
28:14I said,
28:15I said,
28:15I said,
28:16I said,
28:17introspection ki unho ne unho ne aisa kiya hi kiyo jahan se ye sara bawal shiru hua
28:26no no i i accept i appreciate what you are saying that they were sidelined you claim and therefore
28:31they were feeling uh uh they were feeling stifled ragap chadda said there was a toxic atmosphere in
28:38the amadmi party but what made you someone who was not part of that politburo also decide to
28:44leave is it because you are a businessman and you were under pressure ashok mixtas the other
28:48businessman had an ed raid on him 14 days ago were you under pressure to switch sides why did you
28:54choose to leave no no no no that no no no no no rajdeep i i swear by god there
29:01was no pressure
29:02first of all first of all i'm not a businessman i'm just a sort of non-executive chairman i am
29:08semi-retired now i am into social work and philanthropy having started my career as a
29:14bureaucrate enough is enough now i'm i just want to serve panjab and whatever that having said that
29:19when these three nucleus when the nucleus breaks if the centrifugal force they break away and then four
29:28of us also were somewhat dissatisfied disillusioned uh more with the governess in panjab issues and this
29:38freebies atmosphere we used to say or you will not see any panjabi or sick beggar but they are all
29:51making dependent on the the subsidies and all did you realize this only in the last few days that
29:57under prime minister modi leadership there is self-respect why did you join rp party then i was
30:03why did you join the rp party three years ago sir if you feel that no i i first of
30:10all first of all i did
30:12not join any party nor here unki unka bada pan tha sun lije unka bada pan tha i am thankful
30:18to them
30:19unhoney kabhi mere ko or or or logan ko nahi bolaji party join karo unhoney ka hama ap jaisai you
30:25are
30:25padmashiri you are clean chavi a b c d or humme aysa hiya admiyong ki zarurati jab unhoney panc siten
30:32apni bharli thi then two two were left ab joe yeh sawaal none of you paid for a ticket right
30:40none of you paid for your rajasaba tickets am i clear sani ji none of you paid for your rajasaba
30:46tickets because there were rumors that businessmen were paying for the rajasaba ticket you did not
30:50pay anyone for your rajasaba ticket but let's sir not not not even not even a cup of tea
30:58people believe it people myre ko douserou ka ni pata myre ko mein aapni baat kar sakta
31:04hon dhankay ki chot pe right kyunki kyunki kyunki mein wiesse hi itna right i am spending
31:09aapko nee nee sun to lijei aap sun nye i am spending 6 krona hume MPLD se milta
31:15hai pichlue sal meinne about ah joh hai nine nine point two five krona meinne aapni jayb
31:21se punjab mein laga ya 15 krona mein toh jayb se punjab pe lagata hum toh in loogun ko bhi
31:27tha
31:27abhi hume credit mil ega o piesse meri se kyun piesse koi mangayga or mein is chakkar
31:32mein i am out of this toh mein ye ke sun lijei modi ji nye toh merko brix mein dala
31:37brix
31:37mein jatata tha phir operation sandoor mein bheja lakin abh hum bhi thoday ah suffocated
31:44frustrated thay ki hummari koi baat panjab mein sun nye raha lakin ham karte kya lakin ye abh
31:49eka opportunity eka eka eka time hota na there is a time of every idea to become a reality abjab
31:57ye teen logon hai thaan li ke bhi ham alag ho ra hai toh pher ham chaar bhi milke saath
32:03ho
32:03gaye aur hamne socha dekho kyunki ham log politician did ragab chadda approach you sami ji did
32:11sani ji may understand did am i right that ragab chadda approached you and that's how
32:17he approached you when was this when did he approach you how long ago
32:23we are daily we are daily we are daily going to parliament and we are friends we were in
32:31davos we were in host of other thing so he's a young whatever enterprising boy so ab baat
32:38to roze hoti na approach to us ko kiya jata ki mein kahi dur bethahun or daily teen bar
32:43miltay thay dhin mein to kezai yaar ye meh unko vhi panjab se baar nikal diya or jab
32:48minne sandi paathak ka dhekha ki wo ek dina he was short of crying ki mein toho ii ii
32:54tiki professor ki job bhi gai or meinne kafi kooshis ki mein manis saudiyah ji ko dhukho
32:59meras access maan sahab toh miltay nahi ta kejriwal ji kabhi kabhi miltay thai is a nice
33:32person but manis saudiyah ji acche aadmi hai mein unko apna dhukh tekliv yasara report
33:34you met kejriwal on 22nd what did you tell him you met kejriwal on 22nd what
33:39did you tell him the 35thnte 맞i q 280яз mini sir he he summoned me he called me sandip
33:47paathak and harvajan singh aberg times he said we heard who has come
33:54I said, I'm an honest person, 35 years of career, I don't have any such thing.
34:08And then he said, if pressure comes because he said, you are a soft person and you have so
34:15social, you have to do social work.
34:17I know you are not into active politician.
34:21I said, you have to resign, I said, you have to give two days a time, I said, we will
34:28get
34:28Friday.
34:29I said, I'm home and I'm thinking about what to do.
34:32I've also been in Dharm Sankat.
34:34I've also thought about what to do with the family.
34:39Then someone else has to resign or not.
34:52And then we had met H.M.
34:56I said, I'm not going to die.
35:14I'm not going to die.
35:16I'm not going to die.
35:31You've given us an important news point.
35:33You said, sir, one minute.
35:37Right.
35:38You have given us an important news point that you met the home minister who assured you
35:43that he was keen on doing something for Punjab.
35:46And you thought this was a good moment to also contribute.
35:49Can I ask you in conclusion, are you completely comfortable with this decision?
35:54Are you completely comfortable with this decision?
35:56Rat, will you sleep well at night?
35:58Your conscience is clean that you are broken away from a party and merged it into a party
36:04which was seen as an ideological opponent.
36:10I don't think it's ideological.
36:12There is no ideological difference.
36:15There is no ideological difference.
36:15Our Hindu and Sikhs are not a match of Punjab.
36:19They are some fundamentalists that create a difference.
36:23create a business.
36:24It was a week ago.
36:27How did it become?
36:29How did it become Hindu?
36:30This is not a problem.
36:33RSS has said that one month ago, six are a separate religion.
36:41This is not an ideological difference.
36:45We are thinking about Punjab's best way to think.
36:47The last question.
36:49If you say something about an answer,
36:52you are going to get a answer.
36:56When the party of the United States had a good day,
36:58before the first time,
36:59you are in the Bajpans.
37:01The question is different from the United States.
37:05You are giving all the BJP in Punjab, Delhi.
37:09Now you are giving all the people.
37:12Sir, listen to me.
37:15Sir, listen to me, Rajdeep Ji.
37:19Now some of the people have a great belief.
37:21I don't want to say anything.
37:24It's okay.
37:25You know what the governance is, what the performance is,
37:30how many ransom calls come.
37:31You know better than me.
37:33They say that we are idiots.
37:35We are idiots.
37:36They have a lot of money.
37:39We are idiots.
37:41We are idiots.
37:41Those idiots, right?
37:42They have worked in us.
37:45We are idiots.
37:46We are idiots.
37:47We are idiots.
37:47We are idiots.
37:48Okay.
37:48Let's leave it there.
37:49Those are very strong words that you've given us.
37:51But you've given us an interesting explanation,
37:53as to how you decided finally to take this big decision.
37:57As I said, I remember you, of course, from the 1990s.
38:00Thank you so much, Vikramjit Singh Sani,
38:04for joining me here on the show tonight and explaining your position.
38:08Thank you, Rajdeep Ji.
38:08Thank you very much.
38:16Okay, let's turn from there to the breaking news that's coming in,
38:19because Iran's Foreign Minister Araqchi has met Russian President Vladimir Putin.
38:24Straight from Islamabad, he had flown to Moscow.
38:28And Abbas Araqchi has briefed Vladimir Putin on West Asia talks.
38:32All of this comes against reports that Russia may well try and play the mediator after Pakistan has attempted to
38:38do so.
38:39Iran has claimed that U.S. is making unreasonable demands and slowing talks.
38:43Araqchi has said that U.S. has failed to achieve the goals.
38:46And importantly, Araqchi is saying that he thanks Russia for support.
38:51And Russia says that it intends to continue strategic relations with Iran.
38:55So, clearly now, you've got an interesting situation where Russia could also play a role in trying to broker a
39:02peace.
39:03Iran making it clear they're ready to open the Strait of Hormuz,
39:05but on condition that the U.S. lifts the naval blockade.
39:10Joining me now, Dimitri Leontev, Chief Producer, RT International.
39:15Good to have you, Dimitri, on the show.
39:18Is Russia trying to play the role of a mediator?
39:21You have good relations with Iran?
39:24Or what exactly is Vladimir Putin attempting to do when he met the Iranian foreign minister today?
39:33Thank you for having me.
39:34I'm not sure if it's correct to say we're trying to play the role of a mediator.
39:39It is possible.
39:40We've been talking about this for a while now.
39:43I think our spokesman for President Dimitri Peskov about a month ago said that Russia is ready to be the
39:48mediator,
39:49we're also ready to accept any nuclear materials that Iran could give away,
39:53which is the main point of the U.S. administration.
39:56This is what they would like to achieve, at least what President Trump is saying.
40:00We are ready to help.
40:02Of course, the main place for negotiations right now is in Pakistan.
40:06That is up to Iran, Russia, I'm sorry, United States, and maybe even Israel to decide where the negotiations take
40:16place.
40:16I do have to say that Russia is a valid place to have negotiations.
40:20We have decent relationships with the United States, at least with the Trump administration.
40:24We have great relationship with Iran.
40:26We also have working relationships with Israel.
40:28And the issue with Pakistan is that they have no relationship with Israel,
40:32and that might create some difficulties.
40:35But, of course, it's up to the parties that are negotiating to pick a place, and we're ready, of course.
40:41But where does, Dmitry, Russia stand on the core issue?
40:44Which is, Iran is saying we are ready to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, provided America lifts the blockade.
40:51Now that, you've got, and Donald Trump so far has indicated he's not willing to lift the blockade.
40:56Given that America is taking a maximalist stand, Iran is also talking tough.
41:02Does Russia, does Moscow see any breakthrough in the near future?
41:08Well, I can't speak for the Russian government, of course.
41:11I'm a journalist.
41:12I don't represent the Russian government.
41:13But what are you picking up?
41:16I don't feel like we are close to a resolution here.
41:20The main reason I believe we're not close to a resolution is because internal politics of each country
41:26is not allowing them to make concessions.
41:28We see President Trump would like to make peace, but what he can't have is the repeat of JCPOA,
41:34the Obama treaty, which he himself, in his first term, left.
41:40If he just does that same thing, he's going to get killed by his own electorate.
41:45You know, the Republicans would not understand why he did this if we already had a deal,
41:50and it would be the same.
41:51Now, on the Iranian side, there was a lot of goodwill on the Iranian side to negotiate with the U
41:57.S.,
41:57and it's been going on for years, and they were negotiating with the Trump administration twice,
42:01and Americans used those negotiations in order to attack them,
42:05and so the people who would like to negotiate with Iran are not very popular right now.
42:11It's very hard for them to bring their opinions as the main opinions.
42:16The more hardline position in Iran is more popular, and you can understand why.
42:20Now, we can't forget that it's not a bilateral thing.
42:23There is Israel as well, and we saw that Natali Bennett, the main opposition in the Israeli government,
42:29said about Netanyahu when the ceasefire between Lebanon and Israel was implemented.
42:34What he stated on Twitter is that you didn't beat Hamas, you didn't beat Hezbollah, you didn't beat Iran.
42:41What are you doing?
42:41So, Netanyahu government is also feeling a lot of pressure internally to continue the war.
42:47Now, the sad thing in this horrible war, it's very hard to solve,
42:51because internal politics of each three countries are seeming not allowing them to make concessions.
42:58Right. Can I ask you a final question?
43:01U.S., Russia and China, sorry, Russia, China and Iran.
43:05There's a lot of talk of these three countries working very closely together.
43:09The President has also said, Putin has spoken about the strategic relationship with Tehran.
43:14Are these three countries working in concert?
43:17What's the sense you're getting?
43:18Russia, China and Iran working in concert, trying to put pressure on America.
43:26I am not sure if there is, the thing is that both, all three countries, Russia, China, Iran, just like
43:33India,
43:34are very sovereign, big countries.
43:36So, it's very hard for them to have completely the similar politics, similar interests,
43:41and have like a concise, single policy.
43:44There are, of course, areas where Chinese interests and Russian interests
43:48and Iranian interests are, you know, intertwined, are the same.
43:51There are also ones where they're not.
43:54So, we can't say it's a single policy.
43:56I do want to say that both for China and for Russia, and I'm sure for Iran as well,
44:01this war is not beneficial.
44:04It's not beneficial for anyone.
44:05We understand that maybe we have three to four weeks until the world economy might experience things that we haven't
44:13experienced for decades.
44:14Maybe the 1970 crisis is a bit, the oil crisis is a bit similar, but it could be a lot
44:21worse than that.
44:22And that could create a collapse for the whole economy.
44:24That's not beneficial for any country, including China, Russia and Iran.
44:28I'm going to leave it there, Dimitri.
44:29Good to have you there from Moscow.
44:31We hope to keep having you to get a perspective there from Moscow on a day when the Iranian foreign
44:36minister has met the Russian leadership.
44:38Thanks very much for joining me.
44:40India's most celebrated photojournalist, Raghu Rai, passed away on Sunday.
44:45Rai worked his magic across several platforms, including memorably for India Today magazine for many years,
44:52with some really path-breaking work, including his coverage of the Bhopal gas tragedy and the Indira years.
44:58I spoke with the photo editor of India Today, Bandeep Singh, to recall just why Raghu Rai was so iconic.
45:08Bandeep, great to see you in the India Today photo studio.
45:12What does or what did Raghu Rai mean for an entire generation or several generations of photojournalists like you?
45:22See, Raghu Rai, Rajdeep, was like this overarching Dronacharya kind of a figure.
45:28A whole generation of photographers, in fact, not just one generation,
45:32a couple of generation of photographers like Eklaviyas, even me included.
45:36You know, like Eklaviyas, we followed his work.
45:38We kept his image and matched our efforts to those images.
45:42You know, we honed our skills keeping those images in front of us.
45:45So, he was an inspirational figure for those who wanted to sort of marry photography to news or to journalism
45:53in a way.
45:53He was what we all wanted to become in terms of the power of the imagery that we saw.
46:02I mean, there were photographers before him.
46:05But the emotive appeal of a Raghu Rai picture, how it punched you in the solar plexus,
46:10that was completely an experience that you could get only through a Raghu Rai image.
46:15Some of his best years, Bandheep, were when he was at India Today,
46:19when the magazine in the late 70s, early 80s was making waves.
46:24Let's pick five pictures or three to five, as many as you want, within the time that we have,
46:29that in your view define exactly what you said.
46:33Pictures that would tell more than a thousand words could.
46:36You know, none, I mean, there are innumerable pictures of Raghu's work that one can see.
46:43And, you know, I mean, what he did was he iconized situations.
46:48And as a photojournalist, his excellence was to take a particular image
46:54and make it symbolic and metaphorical for the entire news event that he was covering.
47:02I mean, one of my favorite images, which is etched in public memory,
47:06is this image of this child being buried, one of the Bhopal gas victims.
47:11You know, this is an iconic Raghu Rai image.
47:131984 December.
47:141984 December.
47:15But what makes this image special, Rajdeep, the three other photographers got the same frame.
47:20Exactly the same frame.
47:22Two photographers along with Raghu.
47:24Now, it's only in the Raghu's image, you know, the way the hand is touching the face.
47:29There is, in spite of the drama of the child and his, you know, being half buried
47:34and the power and the sheer agony of this image, the sorrow in this image, you know, with the glassed
47:41eyes.
47:41But it is the touch of the hand that is establishing the sorrow.
47:44It is bringing out the sorrow.
47:45It is actually just like you squeeze out the rasa from a particular experience.
47:53It is happening over here in this image.
47:56This is a quality that was, you know, in Raghu's every work that he did.
48:02You know, there was an element in a larger space that he would photograph.
48:07There would be some element that would hook onto you because of its gentle quality.
48:11It's a remarkable image that he captured.
48:13It really captured the agony and tragedy of Bhopal.
48:18Your next image.
48:21One of the, you know, things, the legendary things that Raghu Rai was known for is,
48:26were his photo features in India Today magazine.
48:28And these were spaces that he fought for, you know, with all the editors.
48:33His battles within the editorial meetings were legendary.
48:35Like you fight for them today.
48:37No, but we all are nothing compared to what Raghu did.
48:43And what he did was, in his words, the words in a story were like a brickwork.
48:53And images to him were like windows that open up those bricks and allow fresh air and fresh air of
49:00experience and witnessing to come through the image.
49:03And so he would always fight for space and display for his photo features.
49:09One of the legendary photo features he did in India Today was of Bismillah Khan.
49:14You know, this was part of his classical musician series that he did.
49:20And he photographed all the doyans of Indian classical music.
49:23This particular photo feature.
49:25And this is presumably in Varanasi.
49:27In Varanasi.
49:28And it follows Bismillah Khan during the course of his day, you know, at his home.
49:33And, you know, now the quality of Raghu Rai imagery is evident over here.
49:39If you see the half turned head towards the heavens, the, is exactly the same way how a musician plays
49:49or performs in a musical concert.
49:51This is his way of seeking amad in classical music, in which when you seek inspiration, divine inspiration, you will
50:00see again this half turned head towards the space.
50:03And the use of negative space to allow that head to have its say and to allow the head to
50:10receive its, what it is receiving.
50:12Beautiful.
50:12Now, this is what Raghu Rai fought for.
50:15This kind of layouts, this kind of use of empty space.
50:19In 1980s.
50:22Yes.
50:22You know, this was when the, the whole…
50:25But this was magazine journalism at its, you know, at its peak.
50:28But this was when words were, you know, held to be at the forefront and the picture was…
50:33So, he changed the sort of rules of the game in a way by making the picture far more important
50:38at times than the narrative, your third picture that you are going to choose for us.
50:42No, before I choose this third image, Rajdeep, I want to talk a little about what makes Raghu so special
50:50in the India, in the, in the context of photography.
50:53See, Raghu had a, what you call, he had a kinship with the India experience.
51:00You know, the whole idea, he had a connect to the, the core idea of, you know, the Indian, the
51:07emotional state of, of being an Indian, the spiritual experience of being an Indian and the whole idea of the
51:13cultural space of being an Indian.
51:15And these experiences were part of his vision, you know, photographic process.
51:21In fact, they were like a subtle filter over all his images.
51:25Now, every image of Raghu's that you see, you will see this, this kinship with the idea of India coming
51:31into that image.
51:32And that made his work very special.
51:35Now, that gave the images an emotive touch, which a lot of other photographers lack.
51:42Let me give you a small example.
51:44Raghu Rai photographed workers and a legendary photographer, Sebastu of Salgado photographed workers.
51:51But, Salgado's workers always gave the impression of being in a state of suffering.
51:57That came from his biblical background.
52:00Whereas, Raghu's workers always, even in the grim, gritty, grimy situations they are working, you always get a sense of
52:09grace in Raghu's workers.
52:10The body will arch in a curve, the hands would extend in a mudra-like form.
52:15They would be always...
52:17That empathy for the Indian experience, the lived Indian experience.
52:21No.
52:23You could catch that full conversation, of course, on India Today Digital, the iconic Raghu Rai.
52:29Now, on that note, thanks for watching.
52:31Stay well.
52:32Stay safe.
52:33Good night.
52:33Shubratri.
52:34Jai Hind.
52:35Namaskar.
52:35Because the news without the noise.
52:38Bye for now.
52:39Bye for now.
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