- 11 minutes ago
A major political crisis has unfolded as seven out of ten Rajya Sabha members from the Aam Aadmi Party (AAP) quit the party to merge with the Bharatiya Janata Party ahead of the Punjab elections.
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00:00Let's widen the debate and raise the big questions.
00:02Is the Ahmadinejee party imploding?
00:05Has Arvind Kejriwal lost his grip over the party?
00:09Can the ARP survive this exodus in Punjab and beyond?
00:13Is this BJP's Operation Lotus once again, especially in Punjab?
00:19Let's join our guests.
00:21I'm joined by Ashutosh, former ARP member.
00:24And now, of course, back to his calling in journalism.
00:28Also joining us is Sanju Verma of the Bharatiya Janata Party after a long time on the show.
00:35And Priyanka Kakkar of the Ahmadinejee party.
00:38Let's raise that question with all of you.
00:41And I want to come to you first, Priyanka Kakkar.
00:44Because are you willing to concede that this is a major setback to your party?
00:49Seven of the ten members of the Rajasabha leaving and merging with the BJP.
00:54It comes just ahead of the Punjab election.
00:57Many of them prominent faces.
00:58Do you accept huge setback?
01:04Rajdeep ji, I don't think so.
01:06Because, you know, Ahmadinejee party is made up of several of volunteers such as Raghav Chaddhan,
01:11several of volunteers such as Sandeep Patak.
01:12And these people such as them were promoted by Arvind Kejriwalji.
01:18They don't come from political backgrounds.
01:20They don't have a Janadhar.
01:21They don't have an individual Janadhar.
01:23They are not, you know, politicians like we see in BJP or Congress.
01:29So, if Arvind Kejriwalji could pick these people out...
01:32Raghav Chaddha was your face.
01:33Sandeep Patak was your organizing secretary.
01:37They were very, very prominent faces.
01:40True that.
01:41I'm not...
01:43True that.
01:44I'm not denying that.
01:45And at a personal level, I also don't like it.
01:49But at the same time, a party is not dependent on any one single individual.
01:53I am very clear about that.
01:54Also, I will say that, you know, there is also one more factor, one more fact,
01:58that today is the last day of campaigning in the local body elections in Gujarat.
02:03And I am telling you, you can please hold me to my word later,
02:07that we are doing exceptionally well.
02:09Congress is completely wiped out in Gujarat.
02:10And we are making great inroads in Gujarat.
02:12And this is one way of sending a message,
02:17because the voting happens in two days.
02:19So this is all...
02:21Nothing.
02:21No political party is dependent on any individual.
02:24For that matter, you know, 220 leaders of Congress went to BJP,
02:27but it still survives.
02:29Also, I think today,
02:32the last update that I have personally is that
02:34only three of the seven reached the BJP office.
02:37Perhaps the other four read the 10th schedule,
02:41the proviso 3 that was deleted,
02:43and read the proviso 4 to it.
02:45And understood that they will probably now be disqualified easily.
02:50Okay.
02:50Because, you know, interestingly,
02:52I was at lunch today with Harbhajan Singh,
02:54because Sachin Tendulkar's birthday was being celebrated.
02:57Not a word was mentioned about this.
02:59But that aside,
03:00before I come to you, Sanju Ji,
03:02I want to come to Ashutosh,
03:03just to understand.
03:05Ashutosh,
03:06you know, Priyanka Kakkar is trying to play this down.
03:10Do you believe that this is a major setback,
03:12and this once again reveals just how vulnerable the Ahmadi Party has become in recent times,
03:18to potential splits and breakaways of many of those who are with, like Raghav,
03:24with Arvind Kejriwal, right from India against corruption?
03:28See, Rajdeep,
03:29in my opinion,
03:31this is the biggest loss of,
03:32biggest setback for the Ahmadi Party after the losing Delhi elections,
03:36because till now the Ahmadi Party has been breaking and saying and shouting from the rooftop
03:41that people have left Ahmadi Party,
03:45people have been sacked from the Ahmadi Party,
03:47but the Ahmadi Party has never broken.
03:49This is the first time the Ahmadi Party is broken,
03:51and not only the local MLA's have,
03:54not only the Legislative Party is broken,
03:56but the Radisaba members,
03:58seven out of ten,
04:00they left Ahmadi Party and joined BJP.
04:02It is really something which is shocking,
04:06and this will have impact in the near future too,
04:09probably also because the party has to think about that,
04:13is there any conflict resolution mechanism in the party?
04:17Is there any team-building process in the Ahmadi Party?
04:19Or is it because the kind of people you are sending to the Rajasaba,
04:24that also has to contribute?
04:25Because I am not saying that the BJP is above board,
04:28for a simple reason,
04:29because a week back,
04:31the two of the Ahmadi Party's prominent leaders
04:33were raided by ED.
04:35Ashok Mittal,
04:36ten locations were raided on 15th of April,
04:40and three days that raid continued.
04:43Sanjeev Arola,
04:44another prominent leader of the Ahmadi Party in Punjab,
04:48he was also raided a week back.
04:50So obviously they are also feeling the heat,
04:52and they also realize that if you are with the BJP,
04:56you are safe in that sense.
04:57So obviously when Raghuchadda and Sandeep Pathak and Swati Malewal,
05:01these three,
05:03their leaving Ahmadi Party has really shocked me,
05:05because all three at one point of time
05:07have been very, very close to Kejriwal,
05:09their eyes and ears of Kejriwal.
05:11So if Sandeep Pathak is leaving,
05:13if Raghuchadda is leaving,
05:14and Swati Malewal is leaving,
05:15then Ahmadi Party has to really think
05:17that what is going wrong with the party.
05:20You nurture talent,
05:21you make them big,
05:22and then suddenly they leave.
05:23So what's the reason behind it?
05:26You know,
05:27the fact is that you mentioned
05:28that they're not just leaving,
05:29but they're joining the BJP.
05:31I wonder,
05:33Sanju Verma,
05:33should we rename the BJP
05:35instead of Bharatiya Janta Party,
05:37Bharati Janta Party?
05:38You are ready to recruit.
05:40You are ready to take anyone,
05:42including people who have been your fierce critics.
05:45Those who used to,
05:46day and night,
05:46Raghuchadda used to target you,
05:48today you're happy to take it.
05:49What happened to your party with the difference?
05:51You seem to be now ready
05:53to take anyone and everyone,
05:55Sam, Dam, Dandabhed,
05:56Operation Lotus,
05:58washing machine,
05:59call it what you will.
06:02Rajdeep,
06:02whether you call the BJP,
06:04you know,
06:05washing machine,
06:06or you say Operation Lotus is at work,
06:09today I'm not going to be rattled.
06:11Aaj mein Rajdeep ji,
06:13ko bade sahiyam se jawaab doongi.
06:15I am always,
06:16you know,
06:16balanced in my approach,
06:18but today more so.
06:19Let me just say one thing,
06:20Rajdeep ji.
06:21If you cannot hold your flock together,
06:24don't blame the BJP.
06:26The divorce between
06:28Raghuchadda and Arvind Kejriwal.
06:31Yaha par third party BJP kaise a gai?
06:33The divorce between
06:34Harbhajan Singh and Arvind Kejriwal.
06:36Yaha BJP kaise a gai?
06:38The divorce between
06:39Ashok Mittal and Kejriwal.
06:41Yaha BJP kaise a gai?
06:42The divorce between
06:44Swati Malival
06:44and Arvind Kejriwal.
06:47Pun intended.
06:48Yaha BJP kaise a gai?
06:50You know,
06:50I was going through
06:51some interesting statistics
06:52on divorce cases
06:53before coming on your show.
06:55And in most cases,
06:56the judges have said
06:57that the rot
06:58has already set in
06:59much earlier
07:01before the husband
07:02and the wife
07:03start blaming
07:03the third party.
07:05Wahi hal Kejriwal ke saath hai.
07:07You look at Ashutosh,
07:09you know,
07:09me and Ashutosh
07:10have disagreed
07:11on many occasions,
07:12beat the likes
07:14of, you know,
07:16Kiran Bedi,
07:17who at one time
07:17was a staunch supporter
07:19of Arvind Kejriwal,
07:20beat a Kumar Vishwas,
07:21a Kapil Mishra,
07:23beat the likes
07:24of an Anjali Damania,
07:25beat even
07:26Yogendra Yadav,
07:27who I simply don't,
07:29you know,
07:30endorse
07:31in terms of his viewpoint,
07:32or a Prashant Bhushan,
07:34who I detest,
07:35or a Shanti Bhushan,
07:36who I detest,
07:37aisa kaise hai,
07:39that such a young party
07:40has lost
07:41its key founding members,
07:43one after the other.
07:44I'll take your point.
07:45Madam,
07:45you make a compulsive point,
07:47but you will also
07:48have to accept that
07:49if you,
07:49if you are seen to raid
07:51Ashok Mittal
07:5210 days ago,
07:53through the ED raids him,
07:55and 10 days later,
07:56he's happily shaking hands
07:57with Nitin Nabeen,
07:58your party president,
07:59and taking a guldasta
08:00from him,
08:01just as there is a pattern
08:02of people leaving
08:04Arvind Kejriwal,
08:05there's also a pattern,
08:06ED ka raid karvao,
08:07and then they immediately
08:09join you over.
08:09Raghav Chatta also,
08:11there are questions
08:11about Delhi Jalbord scam,
08:13your own leaders
08:14of the Delhi BJP
08:15had accused Raghav Chatta
08:16when he was vice chairperson
08:18of Delhi Jalbord
08:19of corruption,
08:20and now they're happily
08:22in your party.
08:23You know, Rajdeep,
08:25what I love most
08:26about coming on your shows
08:27is when Raghav
08:29Chatta was with
08:30Aam Admi Party,
08:32for you,
08:32Raghav Chatta
08:33was the next best thing
08:34after brown bread
08:35and spaghetti.
08:36Now that Raghav Chatta
08:37is with BJP,
08:39Raghav Chatta
08:40becomes persona
08:41non grata
08:41for Rajdeep.
08:42Rajdeep's visceral hatred
08:44for BJP
08:45is so endemic
08:46ki aapko BJP...
08:47What have I got to do?
08:48You're not answering
08:49my question.
08:49I want to end
08:53by saying one thing,
08:53Rajdeep.
08:55You know,
08:55let's get one thing
08:56very clear.
08:57Yes.
08:57Why did the 52nd Amendment
08:59of 1985
09:00and why did the 91st Amendment
09:02of 2003,
09:03the 10th schedule
09:04of the Indian Constitution,
09:06also loosely called
09:08the anti-defection law,
09:09clearly says
09:10if two-third members
09:13as a group,
09:14be it MLAs or MPs,
09:15leave a party
09:16and merge themselves
09:17with another party,
09:19then the disqualification
09:21process comes to an end
09:24and they get
09:24Suomoto protection.
09:26So,
09:26Raghav Chatta
09:27will not be disqualified.
09:29Harbhajan Singh
09:30will not be disqualified.
09:31But that's not my question.
09:32Suomoto will not be disqualified.
09:33That's not my question.
09:34My question is,
09:35you say,
09:35my question is,
09:36the same people
09:37you accuse of corruption
09:38one day,
09:38the moment they join you,
09:40they are doot ka dhula.
09:41You are like,
09:43it almost seems
09:44as if the BJP
09:45is then
09:45a washing machine.
09:48simple jawab.
09:49Rajdeep,
09:50you are a very seasoned anchor
09:51and despite my,
09:52you know,
09:53power was with you on air,
09:54I think you know your stuff.
09:56Tell me honestly,
09:57who coined the term pappu?
09:59Who coined the term pappu?
10:01Please answer.
10:02You know it.
10:03Just name the man
10:04who coined the term pappu
10:05for Rahul Gandhi.
10:07Sorry?
10:09What is the connection?
10:10Who coined the term pappu?
10:11Sorry?
10:12No,
10:13what is the connection?
10:14I'm telling you the connection.
10:17A man called
10:18Navjot Singh Sidhu
10:19coined the moniker
10:20pappu for Rahul Gandhi
10:22and within a few months
10:23Rahul Gandhi
10:24and Navjot Singh Sidhu
10:26were giving
10:26jadu ki jhappi
10:27to each other.
10:29Priyanka Vardra
10:30and Navjot Singh Sidhu,
10:31they both
10:32are close buddies.
10:34So,
10:35Rajneeti mein,
10:36there are no
10:36permanent friends,
10:37no permanent enemies
10:38and I want to ask you
10:39Okay,
10:40that's a good line.
10:41Okay.
10:42No permanent friends
10:43or enemies.
10:44I've taken your point.
10:45Ma'am,
10:46Ma'am,
10:46I've heard you now.
10:47Let me,
10:48yes,
10:50yes.
10:50Final point.
10:52Very quickly,
10:5310 seconds.
10:54Do you remember
10:55the year 2021?
10:57The state was Meghalaya.
10:5912 out of 17
11:00Congress,
11:01MLAs
11:02joined which party?
11:04They joined
11:05a party called
11:06TMC
11:06very close to your heart.
11:08Yes,
11:08they joined a party
11:09called TMC
11:10very close to your heart.
11:11They joined a party
11:12called TMC.
11:17You are now saying
11:19we are not a party
11:20with the difference.
11:20Others do it,
11:21we do it.
11:21But Priyanka Karkar,
11:23just a minute now.
11:23I've heard you.
11:24I've heard you with patience,
11:25ma'am.
11:26I've heard you with patience.
11:27You can't monopolize the show.
11:29Priyanka Karkar,
11:30there is a point
11:30in what Sanju Varma says.
11:32She said,
11:33look at the number of leaders.
11:34One of them,
11:35Ashutosh.
11:36You deny him
11:36a Rajya Sabha ticket,
11:37you give it to industrialists.
11:39Ashok Mittal
11:40had nothing to do
11:41with the Aam Aadmi Party
11:42who gave him Rajya Sabha.
11:43If you give tickets
11:44and the accusation is
11:45tickets were being sold,
11:47then a day like this
11:48will come.
11:48There is no loyalty.
11:50Why is it
11:50that so many leaders
11:51over the years
11:53have left your party?
11:54Will there be
11:54any introspection?
11:55So many leaders,
11:57top leaders
11:57over the years.
11:59No,
11:59that,
12:00that,
12:01that,
12:02many people have joined also.
12:04That argument
12:04won't hold water
12:05because,
12:05you know,
12:06they have a
12:06Sindhya,
12:07that is not a
12:08BJP product
12:09nor is
12:10Himan
12:10Himan
12:10How many leaders,
12:11why have so many leaders
12:12left the Aam Aadmi Party
12:13over the years?
12:19I want to,
12:20I will come to that.
12:20Just let me ask
12:21one question
12:22to Sanju Varma ji.
12:23That she,
12:24is she ensuring
12:25ki Swati Malewal
12:26ke upar
12:27jho case
12:27chal raha tha
12:28woh chalta rahe ga.
12:29Raghav Chadda
12:29ke upar jho case
12:30chal raha tha
12:30usmei conviction hoogi.
12:32Or jho case
12:32abhi Ashok Mittal ji
12:33ke upar
12:34aapne E.D. raid ki thi.
12:35Uska kya hooga?
12:36Aap dekhye ga Rajdeep ji,
12:38answer usmei chupa hai.
12:39Now coming to your question
12:40Rajdeep ji,
12:41we are a party,
12:41we are a 10 year old party
12:43and we have expanded
12:45in three states
12:46practically.
12:47You will see the results
12:48coming from Gujarat
12:48shortly also.
12:49Now what is happening
12:50is that
12:51in this formative years,
12:53there will be
12:54people who come
12:55join us,
12:56there will be people
12:56who leave us
12:57and it is just
12:58the nature of politics.
12:59It happens in other
12:59parties also,
13:00but specifically
13:01what is happening
13:01with aap api party
13:03is that BJP
13:04has been attempting.
13:05So many including
13:07founder members
13:08and close associates
13:09Sandeep Pathap
13:09was seen as the brains
13:11behind your party's
13:12victory in Punjab.
13:16220 leaders
13:18of Congress
13:18including the founder
13:20partners left
13:21and went to BJP
13:22because the BJP
13:24uses Sam,
13:24Dam,
13:25Dandbhed
13:25including E.D.,
13:26C.B.I.
13:27and Alak Tala
13:27Ke Pralobans
13:28because possibly
13:31it can happen
13:32that say for example
13:34Raghav Chadda
13:35he was not content
13:36with just being
13:37a Rajya Sabha member
13:38and wanted more.
13:39Maybe he wanted to
13:40from what we read
13:41on social media
13:43maybe he wanted
13:43to become the
13:44Prime Minister
13:45maybe Mehetwa Kanshain
13:46Zadahudi.
13:47There's so many answers
13:48so many things to that.
13:50Okay, I've heard you Priyanka
13:51I know both of you
13:53have not answered
13:53directly so just a minute.
13:55No, no, put
13:56okay, put the audio
13:58down of both
13:58Sanju and Priyanka
14:00for a moment
14:01because neither of them
14:02have answered
14:03my question directly.
14:04Ashutosh, maybe you can.
14:05Is it true
14:05that you believe
14:07that because
14:07for example
14:08you were passed over
14:09and there were those
14:10who given the ticket
14:11for Rajya Sabha
14:12who are industrialists.
14:13We've seen this now
14:14even with Punjab.
14:15Do you believe
14:16the part of the problem
14:17is our Amadmi Party
14:18has strayed away
14:19from what it wanted
14:19to be an anti-corruption
14:21alternative
14:21and once you do that
14:23there is no ideology
14:24holding this party together
14:26that's what the problem is.
14:28The problem is
14:28not just the BJP
14:29and the Bharti Janata Party
14:31but also with
14:32the Amadmi Party itself.
14:34See, Rajdeep
14:35we have to understand
14:36that the Amadmi Party
14:37was not like
14:38any other political party.
14:40Amadmi Party
14:40was not there
14:41to grab power
14:42or to
14:44but from the day one
14:46they have been saying
14:46and they said it
14:47that they are here
14:48to, they are in politics
14:49not to do politics
14:50but to change politics.
14:51I think that grammar
14:52has completely changed.
14:54Now the party
14:55is in politics
14:56to do politics
14:57and to remain in politics.
14:59That's also one of the reasons
15:00that the many senior people
15:01of the Amadmi Party
15:02who were originally associated
15:03and thought
15:04that this is a revolutionary party
15:05and let's go
15:06and change the party
15:07that disillusioned many of them
15:08and they left the party.
15:09And after that
15:10the kind of people
15:11who joined Amadmi Party
15:12many of them
15:14were turned out
15:14to be careerists.
15:15They were out
15:16to make career
15:17because Amadmi Party
15:18was no longer
15:19a moral force.
15:20Amadmi Party
15:20became indulged
15:22into the power politics.
15:23Obviously
15:24people like them
15:25if they think
15:26that they have been
15:26and another thing
15:28which is important
15:28is that Arvind Kejriwal
15:30believes into the politics
15:31of transaction.
15:32So as long as
15:33you are useful
15:33to the party
15:34you are there.
15:34If you are not useful
15:35to the party
15:36you are thrown out
15:36or you become
15:37marginalized
15:38in the party itself.
15:39I can understand
15:40and I can tell you
15:41that many of these people
15:42who became a Raj Sabha member
15:43or given ticket
15:44for the Lok Sabha
15:45or the MLA
15:46many senior people
15:48in the party
15:49they were very
15:51very upset
15:51because of it
15:52because they thought
15:53there were the party
15:54but nobody was coming
15:55to the party
15:55then they were
15:56in the party
15:57they volunteered
15:57they did all good
15:58and dirty things
15:58but they were ignored
15:59and because these people
16:00were more useful
16:01in the eyes
16:02of the top leadership.
16:03So I think
16:04there is a lot
16:05of other reasons
16:06which is important
16:08to switching up
16:09these people
16:10to the BJP.
16:12Okay I am going
16:13to leave it there
16:13Sanju ji
16:14I have completely
16:14run out of time
16:15I know when you
16:16put up your finger
16:17I get very worried
16:18but either way
16:19I am going to leave it there
16:49in embrace
16:49Iman koi nini raha
16:51Hamam me
16:51sat nangye hai
16:52you abuse
16:53the primary
16:54question
16:54I don't
16:56thank you to all
16:58my guests
16:59thank you
17:00Sanju Varma
17:01you are saying
17:02that we are
17:02not going to be
17:04show me one abuse
17:05no no one minute
17:06please show me
17:07one abuse
17:08I have given
17:08the BJP
17:09and I will accept
17:10what you have said
17:11please do not
17:12mislead the audience
17:13my job is to ask
17:14the question
17:15that none of your
17:15others have asked
17:16because they are
17:17scared of alienating you
17:18I ask you
17:19tough questions
17:20you don't like it
17:21thank you madam
17:22I don't need
17:23certificates
17:23I don't need
17:24certificates
17:25I am now
17:2661 in one month
17:27I do not need
17:28certificates
17:29from any of you
17:30thank you very much
17:31for joining us
17:33I will not
17:34I will ask
17:35questions of
17:36whoever is in power
17:37thank you very much
17:38Sanju Varma
17:38Ashutosh
17:39and Priyanka Kakkar
17:41thank you
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