- 13 minutes ago
A massive political showdown erupted in Parliament on Thursday over women's reservation and its linkage to the upcoming census and delimitation exercise.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your primetime destination news,
00:04newsmakers, talking points, our big talking point tonight, that showdown over delimitation
00:09and women's reservation in parliament. We'll have three speakers, Smriti Rani from the BJP,
00:15Pranati Shinde from the Congress and Brinda Karat of the CPIM and activists. So three strong voices
00:22on a day when women's reservation once again making the headlines along with delimitation.
00:28But first, as always, it's time for the nine headlines at nine.
00:34Marathon Lok Sabha debate on Nari Shakti bill underway. Prime Minister Modi assures that these bills
00:41will empower women. Opposition says the government's intent is motivated purely by politics and redrawing
00:49the political map of the country by linking women's reservation to delimitation. Voting on three
00:55key bills at 4pm tomorrow, the opposition has the advantage in the Lok Sabha. For the government
01:02to get a two-thirds majority won't be easy.
01:07Southern states continue to protest against delimitation. Black flags sweep across Tamil Nadu.
01:14Home Minister Amit Shah says the opposition is misleading. People insist that southern states
01:19will not lose out from delimitation. 50% reservation, he says, is his and Modi ki guarantee.
01:28A taxing Spice Jet aircraft strikes a stationary Akasa airplane at Delhi airport with the Spice Jet
01:35plane's right winglet getting stuck in the Akasa's tail. DGCA off-roster Spice Jet pilots and
01:42concerned officers. The PCS conversion controversy in Nashik explodes. Nine FIRs filed, seven accused
01:52arrested. But the HR manager Nida Khan, who is absconding, now seeks anticipatory bail. Supreme
01:59Court wants a crackdown on organized conversion racket. Supreme Court invokes extraordinary powers
02:10in the Bengal SIR allows voters whose names are cleared by the SIR tribunal to vote even after the
02:16freezing of names. Those whose names are cleared by April 21st can vote in phase one. Those cleared
02:23by April 27th can vote in phase two.
02:29DGCA policy probe takes a fresh twist with CBI strongly responding to Arvind Kajriwal's fresh
02:35advert of it, calling it an attempt to malign the image of the judiciary. Kajriwal had sought the
02:41High Court judge to be recused from hearing his plea, saying there was a conflict of interest.
02:47Three more people have been arrested in the Vijayistara-Jannahagan Film League case. Main accused,
02:53a freelance assistant editor, was working on another film and gained unauthorized access to an editing
02:59studio. Hopes for a U.S.-Iran peace deal are growing, even as Israel indicates a ceasefire with Lebanon
03:07may be announced tonight itself. U.S. War Secretary Pete Hexed warns that if Iran rejects the deal,
03:13the U.S. could resume strikes.
03:17It's not just the mercury, but by the AQI levels that are also rising in the capital,
03:22GRAP-1 restrictions impose once again in Delhi NCR.
03:30But tonight, our top focus, the showdown in Parliament over the three bills brought by the
03:35Modi government on the women's quota law and delimitation. The Modi government today assured
03:41all states will get the same proportion of seats as of now. According to Home Minister Amit Shah,
03:4750% increase in all states. But the opposition hit back, questioning why it is not being mentioned
03:55in the bill? And the why has the government linked women's reservation with delimitation? And why is
04:02the government not waiting for the caste census before making its next move? Among the star speakers,
04:08Prime Minister Modi and from the Congress, Priyanka Gandhi Vardra. Listen in first to both of them.
04:31The women in all times as of race to the women in the country. And what will have the deal
04:37by the
04:39government that is a very important thing? And the-and the development of the people in which
04:39is a very important thing. And every country will have a great job. And there is no matter what
04:43they will be. They will come to us. The women in all countries are in the分鐘. They are in all
04:44the larger cases of the people who are in the world. And they will come to us to the
04:44the world's people who have been
04:47in the country.
04:52The world has not been forgiven.
04:56I want to say that I am going to call this place
05:03that I am going to be the king, the king, the king, the king, the king of the king.
05:09I want to say today that the Prakirya will not do any of anyone with any of these.
05:25This Prakirya will not do any of anyone with any of these.
05:36foreign
05:42foreign
05:43foreign
05:44foreign
05:44foreign
05:52foreign
05:53foreign
05:54foreign
05:54foreign
05:54foreign
06:24is
06:26foreign
06:38foreign
06:40foreign
06:44foreign
06:59foreign
06:59foreign
06:59foreign
06:59foreign
07:01foreign
07:06foreign
07:07foreign
07:08foreign
07:12foreign
07:16foreign
07:17foreign
07:18foreign
07:18foreign
07:19What is this work? What is that work?
07:22They were also talking about this work.
07:24That we will only see it later.
07:28We should not take it in a moment.
07:30Adhyats Mahode.
07:31That they should also get their rights.
07:34And Pradhan Mantri Ji told him a technical point.
07:40Our Pradhan Mantri Mahode is suffering from what?
07:44It's the same thing.
07:46That when there is a new war,
07:50then they will leave the real war.
07:55And you will know that this war is so important, so big.
08:02Now amidst all of this, Home Minister Amit Shah, who remember moved this bill,
08:06has piloted it, claimed that the southern states would not lose out.
08:11The south states have said that delimitation would work to their disadvantage.
08:17Home Minister Amit Shah today in parliament gave the specific seats the southern states would get under delimitation,
08:24including a 50% proportionate rise in seats across every state of the country.
08:30The opposition is asking if that is the case, why was that not mentioned in the bill?
08:35Mr Shah says those concerns will also be addressed when he speaks tomorrow.
08:40Listen in.
08:42Mannevar Venu Gopal Ji says,
08:45Who said who said?
08:47I'm saying Amit Shah of government government,
08:51Which did the taillet this bill.
08:53Another thing, listen, listen, listen.
08:58Where is this bill,
09:00and where I draw,
09:01I will take a look at them.
09:03I will tell them tomorrow when I will answer the details.
09:06I will tell them, but I will sit and walk out.
09:32The current state of strength of the Lok Sabha is 540 members.
09:36So, effectively, to pass a constitutional amendment like the Women's Reservation Bill,
09:41the government will need the support of at least 360 MPs.
09:45At this point, the NDA has 293 MPs, which is well short of that mark.
09:50The India Bloc has 234 MPs, making it clear that if the opposition stays united,
09:55it will be very difficult for the government to get these bills passed.
10:00So, that is where the state of play is.
10:04Time now to turn to my newsmakers tonight.
10:13Okay, my first guest then on the big debate today on Women's Reservation and Delimitation
10:18is the former Women's and Child Development Minister, also BJP leader, Smriti Irani joins us.
10:25Good to have you on the show, Ms. Irani.
10:26The big question, the government is saying this is a moment whose – this is an idea whose time has
10:32come.
10:33The opposition is saying the government is using Women's Reservation to actually push through delimitation
10:39and redraw the political map of the country to their advantage.
10:44This is not about Women's Reservation.
10:45This is about redrawing the political map of the country and undermining democracy.
10:50Your view?
10:53The question is, when was representation, which is to be assured by Parliament,
10:58to women of this country, divorced from the reality of delimitation?
11:04Mm-hmm.
11:06In 2023?
11:07In 2023, when you were Women and Child Development, you all decided to link Women's Reservation to the next delimitation
11:15after the census,
11:16which was to take place in 2026?
11:17In 2023, Mr. Sardesai, even then, the question was, when will it be implemented?
11:24The government's position was post-census, post-delimitation.
11:29Yes.
11:30Today, when the opposition was up in arms in 2023, insisting that it get implemented in 29,
11:37and wanted an assurance from the government to implement it in 2029.
11:44Why is it that now the opposition wants to walk away from that position?
11:48The government is ensuring that it is indeed implemented in 2029.
11:55And hence, to cede to the demand of the opposition to ensure the speedy implementation of 33% preservation of
12:02women,
12:03it is essential that the government's constitutional position today be supported by the opposition.
12:09But didn't you know it in 2023 that the census and the delimitation exercise could take a very long time
12:15and not meet the 2029 target?
12:17Suddenly, for three years of doing nothing, then five days before Tamil Nadu and West Bengal are going to the
12:23polls,
12:24government decides a special session.
12:26So there are questions whether this is politically time to take electoral advantage.
12:30Again, it's not about women's reservation.
12:32It's about political advantage.
12:35Firstly, Mr. Sardesai, you insult the intelligence of the Indian voters,
12:39especially in the states that you have mentioned, that they can be so swayed.
12:44Secondly, there isn't a month in our country where we do not celebrate our democracy
12:49or do not have some part or the other of an election.
12:53Can you please tell me in the next forthcoming five to ten years,
12:58which one quarter of our country will never have an election?
13:02You could have done it in the monsoon session of parliament.
13:06After the election, monsoon session of parliament, after discussion and consultation,
13:10what was the hurry, the urgency that we've got to have a special session on the 17th and 16th to
13:1618th of April?
13:17This could easily be done in the monsoon session.
13:19Which election is, post which, how many elections are around the corner, Mr. Sardesai?
13:24Next year in February.
13:29How many other elections are around the corner?
13:31Next year in February is the next round of elections.
13:34What is the guarantee?
13:36Then the opposition does not stand up and say, let this election go through.
13:43Can you give me guarantees on behalf of the opposition?
13:46I can give you no guarantees.
13:47All I'm questioning is the timing and the intent.
13:50That's what the opposition is questioning.
13:52Timing and intent.
13:54Allow me, sir.
13:55What is the guarantee?
13:56What is the guarantee that once the census which is underway is completed,
14:01this very opposition will accept the data that comes forth?
14:07And will not cast its portions on the data?
14:10Can you please guarantee me?
14:12Ma'am, you make the point that can the opposition give any guarantees?
14:17Let me flip that.
14:18You're actually raising a point which is important,
14:20the mistrust between the opposition and the government.
14:23So, here's a simple solution.
14:25Tomorrow morning, government says, forget delimitation, forget census,
14:29543-member parliament, 181 seats are being reserved for women,
14:33and it will be done on 2029.
14:35Easiest way.
14:36Why is the government reluctant to do that now?
14:39Mr. Sardis, your position is,
14:42hence the government should absolutely reject constitutional provisions.
14:47Your position is, the government should reject constitutional procedures.
14:53Your position is, the government should reject the maryada of the constitution and take the Rajdeep Sardesai formula and help
15:02it implement.
15:03No, this is not a Rajdeep Sardesai formula.
15:05This is the same formula which in 2010 was used.
15:08543 seats, it was passed in the Rajya Sabha, one third will be for women.
15:12I'm saying tomorrow morning, it will end all the mistrust on both sides.
15:15What's my party in government?
15:18How will you redraw constituencies without delimitation?
15:22You can do it without delimitation.
15:24Allow women to have, that's exactly why, Mr. Sardesai,
15:28since you do not respect constitutional positions and procedures,
15:32thank God you're not the Prime Minister of India.
15:34No, I'm not, but I'm asking you a simple question.
15:37There is a process, there is a process.
15:38Instead of 850 seats and increasing parliament,
15:41in the present parliament itself,
15:43what happens in one third are reserved for women?
15:45That's the commitment that both sides should show.
15:50Either I can answer or you can pontificate.
15:52No, please go ahead.
15:56The question is this.
15:57Is there a procedure under which the 33% reservation for women
16:02is to be implemented?
16:03Yes.
16:04Are constituencies to be redrawn through delimitation?
16:08Yes.
16:08Is there a data subset that a government needs to depend on?
16:12Yes.
16:13Is that data available to the government?
16:15Yes.
16:16Is that data being proffered by this government
16:19or is the legacy of the UPA led by the Congress Party?
16:25So if this government is showing faith in a census
16:31which was undertaken by a Congress-led government,
16:34I do not know why then the opposition hankers so.
16:39The fear is not the census of 2011.
16:43The real fear I sense is delimitation.
16:46Redrawing of maps.
16:47You have already seen the southern states saying they will lose out.
16:50My second question.
16:50And the fear is of gerrymandering that constitencies
16:52will be redrawn to favor the government of the day.
16:54My second question is this.
16:57Not at all.
16:58You have the prime minister and the home minister
17:00giving assurances on the floor of the house.
17:02And their word has been upheld on the floor of the house assuring that no state, no community
17:12will be disenfranchised.
17:15That is a position the government has clearly taken.
17:18The opposition says, look at Assam and Jammu and Kashmir.
17:21The constituencies have been redrawn to favor the government.
17:24Their fear is you want to redraw, I repeat, the political map of the country under the guise of women's
17:30reservation.
17:30Mr. Sardesai, their fear is that they are already unpopular.
17:35There will be opportunities for them to be unpopular even more.
17:41Can I ask you this, ma'am?
17:44Not the position of the government.
17:45Sir, allow me to finish.
17:47From what I have heard, it is not the position of the government
17:50that any political party is constrained from fighting from any seat in the country.
17:58So, is the opposition of the position
18:01that the delimited status of constituencies today
18:06has historically favored the opposition?
18:11Is the opposition's position today
18:14that when they were in power,
18:16they redrew constituencies
18:19so that it politically favors them
18:22and hence is fearful that others will follow suit?
18:27Spriti Hirani, the point, ma'am, Spriti Hirani,
18:31is I come back to it because of the level of mistrust,
18:34you need an alternative formula.
18:36Now, there are two alternatives.
18:37I am saying existing 543...
18:39You speak about...
18:40Reserve one-third.
18:41You're saying that's not possible,
18:44that's constitutionally not possible.
18:45But it's very easy.
18:46You speak about an environment of distrust.
18:47It's a very easy...
18:48That's the easiest thing to do.
18:50You'll agree with that?
18:51Do you agree that's the easiest thing to do?
18:53The democracy and the constitutional processions
18:56that the government has to serve...
18:59Okay.
19:00It's not easy.
19:01It has to be thoughtful and purposeful
19:03and work within the confines of
19:06what is the government's constitutional responsibility.
19:11You talk, Mr. Sardesai...
19:13You talk, Mr. Sardesai, about mistrust...
19:16Mm-hmm.
19:18...between the government and the opposition.
19:20As a citizen, let's answer...
19:22How can you trust an opposition
19:24that wanted the government...
19:27...implement 33 present reservation in 2020...
19:30...in 2023,
19:31but reverses his position in 2026?
19:35No, but both sides have gone and reversed it.
19:37You've also said earlier you had agreed
19:39that it would be the census and delimitation of 2026.
19:42Now you're going back to 2011.
19:44So it's not as if only one side is reversing its position.
19:48Let's be very honest about that.
19:50The fact is that it seems almost as if the government
19:53wants a quick fix formula.
19:54Answer this one question of mine.
19:56Answer this one question of mine.
19:58Has the government taken a position
20:00that it will not depend on census?
20:03No?
20:04Mm-hmm.
20:06As the government change its position,
20:08that will not depend on delimitation?
20:10No.
20:11And thus, my request to you,
20:14get me a guarantee from the opposition
20:17that this census, which is...
20:24...position,
20:25and they will not cast aspersions on any data,
20:28on any intent of any constitutional body.
20:33Ma'am?
20:34Can you give me that guarantee, sir?
20:35Ma'am, I am no one to give any guarantees
20:38that is for the leaders of political parties
20:40to give guarantees.
20:41But let me...
20:41Sir, the only guarantee today...
20:43Sir, the only guarantee today...
20:45I have as a female citizen...
20:52...is that there is a bill before both the government
20:55and the opposition in the parliament of India.
20:58Ma'am, I am no one to give them...
21:02...is that there is a political party to ensure that political equity
21:09is given to women of this country.
21:11Yes, so, I mean, there are various ways in which you can give political equity
21:15without necessarily having to...
21:18...necessarily having to redraw the political map of the country.
21:21Sir, the only way...
21:23...only way this will get done...
21:25Yes.
21:25Sir, please allow me, Mr. Sardesai,
21:27the only way this will get done is through the constitutional way
21:31so that it can never be challenged in the Supreme Court.
21:34You're offering formulas so that there is such a disassociation constitutionally
21:41so that some Tom Dickin political Harry will get up tomorrow
21:44and challenge that methodology in the Supreme Court.
21:48What the government is doing today is constitutionally proven procedures.
21:57You know, you're saying that that is a constitutionally proven procedure.
22:01I took you back to 2010 when the bill was passed in the Rajya Sabha,
22:05one-third of 543 were to be reserved for women.
22:08Sir, for the bill to be passed, sir, since you want me to go back to 2010,
22:13firstly, tell your viewers that without the BJP,
22:16it could have never passed the Rajya Sabha.
22:18Second, I can never have a government implement a bill
22:22that is only passed in Rajya Sabha.
22:24Bills which passed in both Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha are implementable, sir.
22:31So, I'm saying, why don't you want to go back to 2010?
22:34It's the easiest formula.
22:35That's all I'm saying.
22:36Please don't be so doey-eyed.
22:37It would only have been practical to implement such a proposal
22:41if it had passed both houses of parliament.
22:43So, now my question is this.
22:46Why didn't then the Congress-led UPA pass it in Lok Sabha
22:49where it had the strength?
22:50When it knew that BJP and opposition is supporting it in Rajya Sabha?
22:55If this was genuinely the intent of the opposition?
23:00Okay.
23:00Can I?
23:01Good question, which the Congress should answer,
23:04but can I therefore ask you one final question?
23:06As one of the leading women politicians,
23:09I saw, I was looking at the numbers of the last Lok Sabha, 2024.
23:13Your party gave 16, 1.6% of the seats to women.
23:1869 seats.
23:19The Congress gave 13%.
23:20Most parties gave single-digit percentages.
23:23Do you believe that the real problem is
23:26that we have a male-dominated political system
23:28that simply still will do all it can to resist genuine women's empowerment?
23:33My answer to that is this.
23:36That it is a male president of the Bharatiya Janata Party
23:39that passed 33% reservation for women within the BJP.
23:43While a party, one of the oldest political organizations in the country
23:47with a female president could not manage it.
23:50Well, they passed 33% reservation for panchayats
23:53when Rajiv Gandhi was prime minister.
23:55So they could say they started this process.
23:57In that case, in that case, sir, let me say this.
24:00They had an historical six-decade opportunity.
24:04Why is it that they denied women of this country
24:07political equity for six decades?
24:10My other thing, my other position is this, sir.
24:13It is a male prime minister today
24:16who is pushing for this legislation
24:18so that it's implementable in 2029.
24:21While we've had a UPA chairperson who was female in gender
24:25who had the historic opportunity of passing it in Lok Sabha
24:29and did not.
24:30Okay.
24:31Smriti Irani, combative as ever.
24:34Good to see you.
24:35And thank you very much for joining me.
24:37Thank you, sir.
24:39Okay, we've heard from Smriti Irani of the BJP.
24:42Let's now turn to Praniti Shinde, Congress MP,
24:46to get her perspective.
24:47Praniti Shinde, good to have you on the show.
24:49I want to ask you straight away.
24:51Smriti Irani is saying the Congress has no reason
24:54to claim the moral high ground on women's reservation
24:56because if they were in power for so many years,
24:59so many decades,
25:00why didn't they ever pass women's reservation?
25:03Now when Mr. Modi is trying to pass it,
25:05the Congress is the one blocking it,
25:08is what Smriti Irani claimed.
25:11Let me take you back to some of the history.
25:16We were the ones who,
25:17we were the pioneers of women's reservation,
25:19but actually the party that gave India
25:22its first woman prime minister,
25:24obviously in the form of Mrs. Indira Gandhi,
25:27the first woman president,
25:30the first woman speaker of the Lok Sabha,
25:33and the 73rd, 74th Amendment,
25:36which guaranteed 50% reservation
25:38and local self-government,
25:39because of which 15 lakh women across party lines,
25:42not just from the Congress party,
25:43have been elected to the local self-government,
25:47have got a chance, have got opportunities.
25:49And it's so sad, Rajdeep,
25:51that today in the parliament,
25:54prime minister went on record saying that
25:57panchayat, gram panchayat or panchayat samyati,
26:00men who got an erection,
26:01they said that they have been able to pass it.
26:07It was so, so sad to hear him say that.
26:10No, no, but let me be more specific, Praniti Shinde,
26:14you are in power,
26:15your government was in power 24 to 14,
26:17you passed the women's reservation in the Rajya Sabha,
26:20but in the Lok Sabha,
26:21you could not persuade your allies at the time,
26:23especially the Mandelite parties.
26:25So the government is claiming you couldn't do it
26:27in the 10 years you were in power,
26:2933% reservation in parliament,
26:31we are trying to do it now,
26:33and you are claiming that this is only
26:35women's reservation disguised
26:38as actually delimitation.
26:41Okay, women's reservation is not the issue.
26:44Women's reservation bill was passed in 2023.
26:51When Mr. Kharki, Mr. Rahul Gandhi Ji
26:53and Mr. Sonia Gandhi Ji said
26:55that make this unconditional in 2023,
26:58don't make it conditional,
27:00remove the clause which said
27:01that it should be based on delimitation
27:03and a census, remove it
27:05and make it applicable right away
27:08in 2020 for elections.
27:11But that time the BJP,
27:12the ruling BJP government,
27:13put these two criterias
27:14and stalled the bill.
27:16Now, after 30 months,
27:18they've suddenly woken up.
27:19And today, what you see in the business
27:22is not women's reservation bill.
27:24It has already even passed in 2023.
27:26Today's bill is delimitation.
27:28They're using women's reservation
27:29as a cover to bulldoze
27:31the delimitation bill,
27:33which is absolutely unconstitutional.
27:36But they claim that that is the only...
27:38They claim, A, they say,
27:40that delimitation is a bogey.
27:42They will ensure 50%
27:45proportionate representation across states.
27:47Every state will get a 50%
27:49enhancement in seats.
27:50So it's not as if any state
27:51will be discriminated.
27:53Amit Shah has gone on record
27:54in parliament to say that today,
27:56saying it's wrong to say
27:57some states, especially of the South,
28:00will be discriminated against.
28:0250%?
28:03Where did this 50% come from, right?
28:06The article, the bill mentions
28:09815 plus 35, 850.
28:12Where has this 50% come from?
28:14Just because Vishwa Guru decides 50%,
28:16he says 50%.
28:17Today, when the Home Minister
28:18stood up in parliament
28:20and went on record,
28:21very smartly,
28:22he only gave the calculation
28:24and the proportional increases
28:25to the southern states.
28:26He did not compare that
28:28to the northern states
28:29because he knew that,
28:30you know, we're going to
28:31call it their bluff.
28:33So, you see,
28:33this is how they're...
28:34No, he said proportionally,
28:36every state will increase
28:37by 50%.
28:38Every state.
28:39So no state will feel left out.
28:41Tell him to give the numbers.
28:42Tell him to give the numbers.
28:43So, in effect,
28:44they're not giving reservation.
28:45They're increasing the numbers
28:47to make their bastions safe.
28:48And the extra seeds,
28:50jo bhi bacha kucha hai,
28:51wo mailao ko dare hai.
28:52So it's really not...
28:53If they really were serious
28:55about women's reservation,
28:56they would have given it
28:57in the existing 543.
28:5833% reservation
29:00in the existing 543,
29:01but they're not.
29:02Why?
29:03So you're saying,
29:04you're making it clear
29:05that if tomorrow morning...
29:07Delimitation...
29:07This government comes and says,
29:09we are reserving 181 seats
29:11out of 543,
29:12the Congress will immediately
29:13agree to it
29:14with absolutely no reservations.
29:16Am I correct?
29:17Absolutely.
29:18You do that right away
29:20without putting
29:20the delimitation clause.
29:22Or then wait
29:22for the caste census.
29:23Wait for the census.
29:25Why delimitation?
29:26And why now?
29:26Look at the timing.
29:27This is going to be implemented
29:29in 2029.
29:30So why now,
29:31just before West Bengal
29:32and Tamil Nadu?
29:33Look at that.
29:34Look at the timing.
29:35You could have done it
29:36in the last budget session.
29:37You could do it
29:38in the monsoon session.
29:39Why now?
29:40The timing is questionable.
29:41The timing is doubtful.
29:43Why do you...
29:44When you say timing is doubtful,
29:46what is the fear you have?
29:47What is the fear
29:48that you have
29:49with this timing?
29:51It's not a fear.
29:53It's a jumla, right?
29:55It's typically what they do
29:56before any election.
29:57It's a nevri.
29:58They did ladli bahen.
29:59They did ladki bahen
30:00at Maharashtra, as you know.
30:01They did their jumla.
30:02They did their dhamakas.
30:04This is just to appease the women.
30:06They're using women again.
30:08This is to appease the women
30:09in Tamil Nadu and West Bengal
30:12and to just leave them falsely.
30:14They're using women
30:15to bulldoze delimitation.
30:17Okay.
30:18Pranayishande,
30:20for joining me on the show today.
30:22Thank you very much.
30:25Thank you, Rashid.
30:27My next guest then
30:28on our continuing focus
30:30on that big debate
30:31in Parliament
30:32over women's reservation
30:33and delimitation
30:34is Brinda Karat,
30:36veteran CPIM leader,
30:38one of the warriors,
30:38early warriors
30:39for women's reservation.
30:41Appreciate your joining us,
30:43Ms. Karat.
30:43I want to understand from you,
30:46women's reservation
30:46comes to Parliament
30:47and by all indications now,
30:49the opposition,
30:50including the left party,
30:52seem determined
30:53not to allow it
30:54to go through
30:54in its present form.
30:57How do you see it
30:58as someone who has fought
31:00for reservation
31:00all these years
31:01and now when it's come
31:03to this final stage
31:04once again in Parliament,
31:06it appears
31:07that the bill
31:08won't go through?
31:12This has nothing
31:14to do with
31:14women's reservation,
31:15Rajdeep.
31:16This bill,
31:18the two bills
31:18which the government
31:19is bringing to Parliament
31:20has absolutely
31:23nothing to do
31:24with women's reservation
31:25and has everything
31:27to do with
31:27other agendas
31:28and therefore
31:30it's not just
31:31opposition parties,
31:33it's women's
31:34organizations
31:35and movements
31:36throughout India
31:38who have fought
31:39for this reform.
31:42It's a reform
31:43for democracy,
31:45it's a reform
31:45to strengthen democracy
31:47but what the government
31:48is doing is
31:49in the name
31:50of women's reservation,
31:52they want to
31:54gerrymander
31:55constituencies,
31:56they want to
31:57change the
31:58constitutional framework
31:59of having a census
32:01which is a current census
32:03to do the
32:05delimitation
32:06if that is required
32:07but they want
32:09to link it
32:09with the women's
32:10reservation bill.
32:12So the agenda
32:13of the government
32:14is something entirely different.
32:15when you're saying
32:16this is not a women's
32:17reservation bill,
32:18presumably the 2023
32:20constitution amendment
32:22which was passed
32:23where women's reservation
32:24was passed by consensus,
32:26you would believe
32:27that was the bill
32:29that should have been
32:29pushed forward,
32:31would you therefore
32:31support if tomorrow
32:33the government says
32:34okay there are
32:35543 seats in the
32:36Lok Sabha,
32:37181 of them
32:38will be reserved
32:39in the next general election
32:40for women.
32:41we're not linking
32:42it to delimitation,
32:43we are going ahead
32:44with women's reservation
32:45as envisaged
32:46in 2023
32:47but we are
32:48delinking it
32:49from the census.
32:51No, no, no.
32:54That was not
32:55the 2023 bill,
32:57that's the whole point.
32:59What you are
32:59referring to
33:00is the 2010 bill.
33:02That was the bill
33:03which had gone
33:04through parliamentary
33:05scrutiny,
33:05it had got
33:07widespread
33:09consultations
33:10with all sections
33:11of society.
33:13I was there
33:14in that parliamentary
33:14committee,
33:15we went all over India
33:16and we included
33:18so many opinions
33:19and it was on
33:20that basis
33:21that the 2020 bill,
33:232010 bill
33:24was brought
33:24into the Rajasabha
33:25and passed
33:26and was supported
33:27by the BJP.
33:29The 2010 bill
33:30had a one-third
33:30if I may just
33:31remind our viewers
33:32the 2010 bill
33:33had one-third
33:34reservation
33:35for women
33:36within that
33:37543 limit.
33:38Then the 2023 bill
33:40comes and says
33:40it will be done
33:41after census
33:42and delimitation.
33:43Now you're saying
33:44go back to the
33:452010 bill
33:46and pass that,
33:47am I correct?
33:51What I am saying is
33:53when you asked me
33:54about the 2023 bill
33:56and were we satisfied
33:58with that,
33:59no, we were not.
34:00At that time
34:01all of us
34:02in the movement
34:04and our representatives
34:05in parliament
34:06warned that you
34:08are just postponing
34:10it, you are doing
34:11it deliberately
34:11by linking it.
34:14These are unwarranted,
34:15unnecessary linkages.
34:17There is no logic
34:19behind linking
34:20women's reservation
34:22to delimitations
34:23and the census.
34:25At that time
34:26the government
34:27did it
34:27because it wanted
34:29to sabotage
34:30women's reservation
34:32for the 2024 elections.
34:34At that time,
34:36the opposition,
34:37consensus on that
34:382020 bill,
34:39I come back to it.
34:40Over the last
34:4125, 30 years
34:42at various stages,
34:43various political
34:44parties have been
34:45accused of
34:46sabotaging the bill.
34:48Has the time
34:48come therefore
34:49for these parties
34:51either to go back
34:51to the past
34:52as you're saying
34:53or sit around
34:54the table
34:54and resolve
34:55the issue?
34:56Do you see
34:57the kind of
34:57political will
34:58across parties
34:59to resolve
35:00the issue
35:01or do you
35:01believe
35:01that a male
35:02dominated
35:03parliament
35:03actually wants
35:04to kick the
35:05ball further
35:05down the road?
35:07Rajdev.
35:10Rajdev.
35:11Please,
35:12the first point
35:13is the government
35:15is accountable.
35:17Just two years
35:18ago they brought
35:18a bill which
35:19was a flawed
35:20proposal but
35:21because the
35:22government gave
35:23insurance in the
35:24house that we
35:25are assuring you
35:26we'll have it
35:27by 2029.
35:29The opposition
35:30supported it.
35:32Now within two
35:33years the government
35:34comes up with a
35:35totally different
35:36proposal with a
35:37totally different
35:38agenda and it
35:40wants your
35:40opposition to be
35:41a rubber stamp.
35:42It's not
35:42happening and
35:44don't do it in
35:45the name of
35:45women.
35:46Don't do it in
35:47the name of
35:47women's reservation.
35:48Don't shoot
35:49your targets on
35:52the shoulders of
35:53the women's
35:53reservation bill.
35:54It is totally
35:55and utterly
35:56unacceptable.
35:58But we also
35:59hear you're
36:00saying
36:00activists who
36:03fought for this
36:04bill have
36:05raised their
36:06objection but
36:06we also have
36:07for example the
36:08National Commission
36:08for Women.
36:09We've got
36:11activists affiliated
36:12to the BJP who
36:13are saying no
36:13no we must go
36:14ahead we must
36:15support the
36:16government's
36:16legislation.
36:17This is true
36:17Nari Shakti.
36:23Rajdeep if I
36:24may say so
36:24with regret
36:27that the BJP
36:29women unfortunately
36:31their role model
36:32has never been a
36:33person like
36:34Sushma Swaraj who
36:36took a stand
36:37against her own
36:38government.
36:40Unfortunately
36:41there are no
36:42women like that in
36:42the BJP today
36:45because the fact of
36:46the matter is that
36:48from the time in
36:49the 1980s when this
36:52issue came BJP women
36:54have never ever
36:56ever joined a
36:58single street
36:59demonstration when
37:01we were fighting on
37:02the streets for the
37:03bill.
37:04The RSS leaders
37:05the Russia
37:06Sevika
37:07Samiti
37:08leaders were
37:09giving statements
37:10as the latest
37:13began 2003
37:14when Sushma
37:15Ji was there
37:16as a minister.
37:18It was a Russia
37:19Sevika Samiti
37:20president at the
37:21time Usha
37:23Sathe I think
37:24her name was
37:25who came out
37:26strongly saying
37:27we are against
37:28reservation.
37:29Let it all be
37:30done on merit.
37:32Exactly a
37:32Manu Wadi
37:33approach.
37:35Exactly that.
37:36You are calling
37:37it a Manu Wadi
37:38approach but with
37:38due regard ma'am
37:41one minute.
37:42With due regard
37:42all political
37:43parties have
37:44failed the
37:45woman in
37:46terms of the
37:47fact look at
37:47the few tickets
37:48that women are
37:49given.
37:49even the
37:50left parties
37:51have given
37:51women tickets
37:52offered in
37:53single digits
37:53in major
37:54elections.
37:55The point is
37:56if parties were
37:58truly committed
37:59to women's
38:00political
38:00empowerment
38:01they should
38:01have given
38:01more tickets.
38:01Let me come
38:02back to another
38:02point Rajdeep.
38:05Anyway Rajdeep
38:06the whole point
38:08is it's not
38:08happening that's
38:09why we fought
38:09for women's
38:10reservation.
38:11Let's stick to
38:12that.
38:12What I'm saying
38:13is another very
38:14important point
38:14which I would
38:15like to flag.
38:16they want to
38:17use the 2011
38:18census.
38:19What does
38:20that mean?
38:22If you're
38:23using the
38:232011 census
38:24in 2026
38:26when the
38:27SCST population
38:29has increased
38:30and therefore
38:31the proportion
38:32of SCST
38:34reserve seats
38:35in parliament
38:36should increase
38:37hugely
38:38as a proportion
38:40of their share
38:42in the population.
38:43Now if you're
38:44using 2011
38:46as the census
38:47and not
38:482026
38:49or 2027
38:50you are
38:51depriving
38:52SCSTs
38:53of their
38:54rightful
38:55proportionate
38:56share
38:56in parliament
38:58and in
38:59state assemblies
39:00as a result
39:01of which
39:02SCST women
39:03will have
39:04fewer reserve
39:05seats.
39:06So there
39:06are many
39:07many areas
39:08of concern
39:09here.
39:10What the
39:11government
39:11is doing
39:12is they
39:13basically
39:13want to
39:14bulldoze
39:15something
39:15which is
39:16against
39:17SCST
39:18interests.
39:19It is
39:20against
39:20democratic
39:21norms
39:21and what
39:23we are
39:23saying is
39:24separate the
39:25two,
39:26de-link
39:26the two.
39:27Women's
39:28reservations
39:28have nothing
39:29to do
39:30with the
39:31population
39:31census.
39:32Women's
39:33reservations
39:34have nothing
39:35to do
39:35with delimitation.
39:36De-link
39:37the two
39:38and bring
39:39the women's
39:39reservation
39:40bill at
39:41the present
39:42number of
39:43seats in
39:43parliament.
39:44You just
39:45have to make
39:46a small
39:46amendment in
39:49334A where
39:50the linkage is
39:51there with
39:52delimitation,
39:53where the
39:54linkage is
39:54there with
39:55the census.
39:56Delete that.
39:57Okay.
39:57I get your
39:58point.
39:58I'm going to
39:59therefore ask
39:59you are you
40:00hopeful?
40:01Are you hopeful,
40:02ma'am, in
40:03conclusion that
40:032029 will
40:05see one
40:06third of
40:07the seats
40:07reserved for
40:08women?
40:09Yes or
40:09no?
40:10A quick
40:10answer.
40:12Why should
40:13I be hopeful
40:13when Modi
40:15is the
40:15prime minister?
40:16And he
40:17is masquerading
40:19as being
40:20committed.
40:21This is
40:21cheating.
40:22This is
40:22cheating,
40:23masquerading
40:24as commitment.
40:26C-H-E-A-T,
40:27his favourite
40:28ally, Trump,
40:29who puts
40:30everything in
40:30capital letters.
40:32Well, here's
40:32what we are
40:33saying.
40:34C-H-E-A-T-ing,
40:36cheating is
40:37not commitment.
40:39Cheating, not
40:39commitment, that's
40:40your view,
40:41Brindach Karad.
40:42As I said, you
40:42have been one of
40:43the earlier
40:43warriors for
40:44reservation from
40:46the 1990s.
40:47I appreciate you
40:48joining me here.
40:48We still are.
40:49I appreciate you
40:51joining me on the
40:51show tonight.
40:52Thank you very
40:52much.
40:55Let me give you
40:56my take on that
40:57big story.
40:58The women's
40:58reservation bill
40:59in its latest
41:00form has
41:01reignited the
41:02debate over
41:03intent versus
41:04implementation and
41:06once again
41:06reopened political
41:07fault lines.
41:08While it promises
41:10greater representation
41:11by linking it to
41:12delimitation, the
41:14government in the
41:14manner that it has
41:16brought the bill
41:17just ahead of
41:18elections and a
41:19sudden special
41:20session has raised
41:21fears, some real,
41:23some imaginary,
41:24over a redrawing of
41:25the political map of
41:27the country to their
41:28advantage.
41:29These are fears that
41:30reflect the growing
41:31mistrust between the
41:33Modi government and
41:34the opposition, which
41:35is why there should
41:36have been greater
41:37consultation between
41:38the stakeholders before
41:40this bill was
41:41probably brought to
41:42parliament.
41:43Here is though my
41:44simple solution to
41:45all the stakeholders.
41:47If the Modi
41:48government is truly
41:49serious about women's
41:50empowerment and
41:51women's reservation,
41:52why not just stick to
41:54the original 2010
41:55bill, a legislation
41:57that was passed in
41:58the Rajya Sabah
41:59then?
42:01543 seats?
42:02Go ahead, reserve
42:04one-third of them
42:05for women.
42:06You can pass the
42:07bill as early as
42:08tomorrow morning
42:09itself if possible.
42:11Opposition and
42:12government should pass
42:14a bill at the
42:15earliest.
42:16This is the simplest
42:17way to ensure that
42:19the long-pending
42:20bills are implemented
42:21at the very
42:22earliest.
42:23But is that too
42:24much to ask?
42:25Or is it really the
42:27case that in a male
42:28dominated parliament
42:29people are still
42:31unwilling to take
42:32that one bold step
42:33that will easily
42:35resolve all
42:36contentious issues?
42:37I repeat,
42:38543 member
42:40parliament,
42:41delink it from
42:42delimitation and
42:43census,
42:44one-third of the
42:44seats for women
42:45MPs, you can do
42:47it tomorrow morning
42:48and 2029 can have
42:50181 women MPs
42:52at the very
42:53least.
42:54Why not try it?
42:57Call it the Rajdeep
42:58formula or don't
42:59call it that.
43:00But it should, in my
43:02view, be the best way
43:03to break this
43:04logjam and give
43:06India's women
43:08their due.
43:09Think about it.
43:11Okay, let's turn to
43:12the big breaking news
43:13at this moment.
43:14Donald Trump has
43:15claimed a truce
43:16between Israel and
43:17Lebanon.
43:18Donald Trump has
43:19claimed that after
43:20talks that have taken
43:21place in Washington,
43:22this is a truce that
43:24is there for 10
43:25days.
43:25Donald Trump claiming
43:26both countries met,
43:28remember, directly,
43:29direct face-to-face in
43:30the US after 34
43:32years.
43:32Trump is claiming,
43:34my honour to end
43:35the 10th war.
43:36Donald Trump once
43:37again looking for a
43:38Nobel Prize, it
43:39appears.
43:40Trump has invited
43:41Israel and Lebanon
43:42leaders to the
43:43White House and said
43:44both sides want to
43:45seek peace.
43:46Remember that we
43:47have had bombings of
43:49Beirut by Israel,
43:50many figures suggesting
43:52more than 3,000 people
43:53have died.
43:54The Hezbollah has
43:55confirmed a one-week
43:56truce.
43:57Either way, that's
43:58another hopeful sign
43:59coming in there from
44:01Washington.
44:03Now, let me give you a
44:04quick wrap of what else
44:05is happening.
44:06Remember, the clock is
44:06ticking on that other
44:07big ceasefire between
44:08the US and Iran.
44:09And the push for
44:11diplomacy continues.
44:13Let's get you all the
44:14top development.
44:15Sharp escalation from
44:16Washington at one
44:17level with the US
44:18Secretary of War Pete
44:20Hexit issuing a stark
44:21warning to Tehran
44:22saying, agreed to a
44:24deal or face fresh
44:25strikes.
44:26Hexit says the
44:27blockade on Iranian
44:28port stays and if
44:30Tehran chooses poorly,
44:31there will be bombs
44:33targeting infrastructure
44:34and energy networks.
44:36Also in a big claim,
44:37he says Iran's
44:38supreme leader
44:39Mojtaba Khamini is
44:40believed to be injured.
44:42Even as the ceasefire
44:43holds, the US is
44:44tightening its grip.
44:45Senko chief admiral
44:47Brad Cooper says,
44:48forces are rearming
44:49with a blockade on
44:50Iranian ports in
44:51place.
44:52US General Dan
44:53Kane warns that any
44:54vessel aiding Iran will
44:55be tracked and force
44:56used if needed.
44:58US media says 13
44:59ships have turned
45:00back.
45:01Over 10,000 US
45:02personnel have been
45:04deployed.
45:05No clarity yet,
45:07though, on the next
45:07round of those talks
45:09between Iran and US,
45:10Pakistan says no dates
45:12have been finalized,
45:13even as back-channel
45:13contacts continue with
45:15Tehran and other
45:16regional players.
45:17Pakistan's army chief
45:18met with the Iranian
45:19FM, Araqchi, and the
45:21Iranian parliament
45:22speaker to facilitate
45:23those talks, but no
45:25breakthrough achieved.
45:26Fresh escalation of a
45:28third-party involvement
45:28in the Iran crisis,
45:30with, again,
45:32Secretary Hexed saying,
45:33China has assured
45:34Washington it won't
45:35send weapons to Iran.
45:37The warning is wider.
45:38General Kane saying,
45:39any vessel from any
45:40country aiding Iran will
45:43be pursued.
45:44So, mixed messages
45:46coming in from
45:47Washington yet again.
45:48Hexed talking about
45:49escalated strikes if the
45:51peace deal doesn't work.
45:52Donald Trump claiming
45:53victory of sorts for
45:55solving another peace
45:56deal.
45:57Joining me now,
45:58Edward Luce,
46:00national editor at the
46:01Financial Times,
46:02national editor US for
46:04the Financial Times,
46:05someone who interviewed
46:06Donald Trump a few days
46:07ago, appreciate you
46:09joining us, Edward.
46:11Tell me, the United
46:12States president saying
46:14only yesterday that the
46:15war with Iran is very
46:16close to being over, and
46:18at the same time we hear
46:19the defense secretary and
46:20others saying military
46:21options are open.
46:22How do you see it?
46:24Do you see Donald Trump
46:25now looking for a quick
46:28negotiated settlement and
46:29claiming victory?
46:34Yeah, well, he's been
46:35looking for a quick exit
46:36since about 48 hours after
46:39this war began.
46:40So, really, for the last
46:42five or six weeks, he's
46:43been looking for that
46:44off-ramp and not finding
46:46it.
46:47You're right that he said
46:49today that it could end
46:50pretty soon, and I think
46:52there's going to be a
46:52second round of talks
46:54between Vance and
46:55Galiboff, the Iranian
46:57speaker.
46:59But he also said,
47:01Trump, that is, also said
47:04that this war could go on
47:06as long as through
47:07November, the U.S.
47:09midterm elections.
47:09So, he is sort of moving
47:12from, you know, the carrot
47:15and stick approach to Iran,
47:18flailing, I think, because he
47:20can't find the off-ramp that
47:22would enable him to declare
47:24victory.
47:24And I guess the real
47:27sort of encapsulation of that
47:29is that amongst the many
47:32ever-shifting war aims that
47:34he's trotted out about why
47:36America has embarked upon
47:39Operation Epic Fury, the most
47:42consistent one is to open the
47:44Strait of Hormuz.
47:45And that, of course, was open
47:47before the war began.
47:48But, you know, Edward, what I'm
47:50trying to get a sense from you is
47:51that we've got a U.S.
47:53president who says the war is
47:55almost over, we are very close
47:56to ending it, and then keeps
47:58saying at the same time that
47:59the United States is not done
48:01with the military campaign.
48:02Are these deliberate mixed
48:03messages, or is this simply a
48:06sign of the confusion in the
48:07White House about what really
48:09to do next in this war?
48:13There is confusion because
48:15the plan A with this war was
48:18something that Netanyahu had
48:20emboldened Trump to think that
48:23once the Iranian leadership,
48:25including the Grand Ayatollah,
48:26was decapitated, that there
48:29would then be—and the missile
48:31sites, et cetera, obliterated—that
48:34there would then be regime
48:35change, and the rest would be up
48:38to the Iranian people, and it
48:39would be over within 72 hours.
48:41There was no plan B.
48:44And he is still looking for the
48:47plan B.
48:48And as time goes on, the Iranian
48:52leadership, which has its backs
48:53to the wall—this is, for them,
48:58existential—the more time goes on,
48:59the more leverage it gets over
49:01Trump in these talks.
49:03So it's not in a hurry to give him
49:06an off-ramp, and it knows that
49:07he's looking for an off-ramp.
49:09You know, the reason I ask you,
49:11remember, Ed, the ceasefire is
49:13supposed to end on the 21st of
49:16April, that's next week.
49:17Do you see, therefore, a prolonged
49:20negotiation, several more rounds
49:22ahead?
49:24Because presumably no one really
49:26wants to return to the kind of
49:28military escalation that we saw
49:30for the first four weeks.
49:31Do you believe that both sides are
49:33looking to buy more time?
49:37I think that Iran has more time
49:40than the United States, because the
49:43threat over Iran was always that
49:44America would attack it.
49:46Well, America has attacked it.
49:48It has survived.
49:50Unless Trump strays into really
49:54gross breaches of the Geneva
49:56Convention by targeting Iranian
49:59civilian infrastructure, electricity,
50:01water, and the like,
50:04he's already done his worst.
50:06Unless he uses nuclear weapons,
50:08you know, which I don't think is
50:09likely, then Iran has already
50:12survived his worst.
50:13So that threat over Iran to
50:17encourage concessions by Iran,
50:19that's kind of gone.
50:22Whereas the Iranian threat over
50:24Trump, that the economic effects of
50:26this get worse over time, that his
50:28poll ratings plummet further over
50:30time, that is something that they've
50:34got, and they don't want to lightly
50:36let go of it.
50:38So Trump would have to make major
50:39concessions for Iran to agree to a
50:43longer-term deal.
50:44And one of those concessions would
50:47mean essentially leaving these 420
50:52kilograms of highly enriched uranium
50:54inside Iran, and an Iran that is now
50:57determined, by hook or by crook,
50:59to go nuclear.
51:01But what is fascinating also, Edward
51:04Luce, is that the U.S. Vice President
51:05J.D. Vance is speaking a very
51:08different language.
51:09He speaks about a grand bargain now
51:11with Iran, almost suggesting there could
51:13be a business deal with Iran in which
51:15sanctions maybe could be revoked,
51:17American investments could flow in,
51:19Iran then benefits from prosperity.
51:20Once again, mixed messages, Donald
51:23Trump speaking one language, Vance
51:27speaking another.
51:28Is this just the way it is in the
51:30White House at the moment?
51:32It does.
51:33I mean, I wrote recently about what I
51:36call the taco, Trump always chickens
51:40out, the taco Armageddon shuffle, that
51:43he's switching from promising, you know, to
51:47bomb Iran back to the Stone Age.
51:49And then by more at midnight, then by
51:524 a.m., he's promising a new golden
51:55age for Iran if it extends the hand of
51:57friendship.
51:58I mean, this is a highly extreme sort of
52:04swing from one negotiating stance to
52:08another, which was very much how he would
52:09deal with banks when he was in bankruptcy
52:12proceedings.
52:13And that bluster did work through his
52:16business career.
52:17I think there are deep grounds for
52:19skepticism to thinking that Iran doesn't
52:22see through the bluster.
52:24I don't think anybody thinks that he
52:26actually planned to destroy Iranian
52:28civilization.
52:30This was a sort of negotiating bid to
52:33say, watch out, I'm just crazy enough
52:35to do it.
52:36So you'd better climb down now.
52:38And they've called his bluff repeatedly.
52:42And so then he switches to the taco, the
52:45Trump always chickens out.
52:46And I think they kind of got the read on
52:49Trump's approach.
52:50But you're right, Rajdeep, in saying it does, I
52:54think, convey an underlying confusion and
52:57rising desperation in the White House to find
53:01some way of getting out of this self-created
53:05dilemma.
53:05How does he get out?
53:07Do you see this second round of negotiations
53:09taking place?
53:10There's talk that Pakistan could do it once
53:11again in Islamabad.
53:14Will that, do you see a long-term pause on
53:16the fighting?
53:18Or is that the most likely scenario at the
53:22moment that the ceasefire will extend?
53:26I think it is.
53:28I don't know how many rounds of talks it's
53:30going to take to get there.
53:32And Trump, at the back of his mind, or maybe
53:35the front of his mind, will be looking at the
53:38U.S.-Iran nuclear deal, the JCPOA that Obama
53:43negotiated in 2015, from which Trump withdrew in
53:47his first term in 2018.
53:49He doesn't want whatever deal ends this war to
53:54be weaker in terms of restrictions on Iran's
53:57nuclear capabilities.
53:58He doesn't want it to be weaker than Obama's deal,
54:02which he described as a complete sort of cave-in,
54:05sell-out, a disgrace, etc.
54:06But right now, it looks like that's what Trump would
54:11have to agree to, to get the Iranians to reopen
54:15the Strait of Hormuz.
54:16One final question, Ed, on Donald Trump himself.
54:21You interviewed him a few days ago.
54:24I want to understand, how does the Donald Trump
54:26interview work?
54:28Do you just text him in the middle of the night or
54:30afternoon, he rings you up, and then you just do a
54:32phone interview?
54:33Is that how correspondents in Washington like you keep
54:36getting interviews with Donald Trump?
54:38Does he just wake you up in the middle of the night and
54:42say, Ed, let's have a conversation?
54:45I mean, he's very receptive.
54:47I can't speak to how, you know, it's not like I'm in a tiny
54:50elite group of people who talk to Trump.
54:52I think he's talked to something like 35 journalists since
54:55this war began on the cell phone.
54:59I don't know quite how they get him to pick up, but I text to
55:02say, I'm going to call Mr. President, and I remind him who I
55:05am, and then he picks up.
55:08Well, he certainly picks up your phone, and then you can do an
55:11interview.
55:12I hope that happens in India.
55:13Just text the Prime Minister one day, and he'll pick up the
55:17phone and say, let's do a conversation.
55:18Who knows?
55:19That could also happen.
55:21But thank you very much, Ed Luce, for shedding some light on
55:24those mixed messages of Donald Trump.
55:27That's it that we could pack in on the show today.
55:30Thanks for watching.
55:31You stay well.
55:32Stay safe.
55:32Good night.
55:33Shubratri.
55:33Jai Hind.
55:34Namaskar.
55:37Jai Hind.
55:38Jai Hind.
55:39Jai Hind.
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