- 6 weeks ago
It's no secret that The Jockey Club has come under fire recently, particularly from owner Mike Repole. The Jockey Club Chairman Everett Dobson joined this week's TDN Writers' Room presented by Keeneland to address some of the criticism and to talk about other issues, like the SAFE Act, the on-again, off-again efforts to impose a mare cap, and a venture that will bring the Derby experience to thousands of possible new fans who are tuning into YouTube and TikTok.
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SportsTranscript
00:00:18And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room presented by Keeneland and my name is
00:00:23Bill Finley and I am a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and I also co-host
00:00:27the Down the Stretch radio show every Saturday morning on Sirius XM Radio with Dave Johnson.
00:00:33Hey guys, how y'all doing? I'm Randy Moss. I had to look with NBC Sports and also the
00:00:38Buyer Speed Figure team. Zoe Cabin with First Racing and First TV. I'm here in sunny Ocala
00:00:46in one of the palatious conference rooms we have here. You can see there is sunshine outside.
00:00:52Honestly, I have a funny feeling that April and March got turned around because it was hotter
00:00:58than hell in March and the weather this week has been fabulous. So thumbs up as we get ready for
00:01:04the OBS sale. Well, we'll keep an eye on the OBS sale. I'm sure Zoe will give us a report
00:01:10on that
00:01:10next week. But as always, let's try to kick off things with what's going on in the latest in the
00:01:15Kentucky Derby news. And Randy, I wish we could have played our podcast live last week because you
00:01:24through Jerry Bailey had the scoop. You had all the jockey arrangements and the jockey maneuverings
00:01:29and all that. Congratulations. By the time the podcast came out, it was a little bit late for all
00:01:35that. But want to let our listeners and viewers know that Randy with his cohort, Jerry Bailey,
00:01:41we're on top of the story. So here are the headlines. The biggest one is this. I read Ortiz
00:01:46chooses Renegade over Further Ado. That leaves John Velasquez available. He rides Further Ado.
00:01:52Commandment, who nobody seems to want to ride, goes to Luis Saez because Flavian Pratt picked
00:01:58Emerging Market. Randy, since you were the one who had your ear to the ground on that, I'll start with
00:02:05you. This was a tough call for Irad, no doubt about it. I mean, both horses look fantastic.
00:02:11I would say I was a little bit surprised. However, Further Ado was so good in the bluegrass. Not that
00:02:18Renegade was not good in the Arkansas Derby, but I thought of Further Ado's 106 buyer and his
00:02:23tremendous performance in the bluegrass. That's the horse he would have picked, but he didn't.
00:02:28Your insights on that. It's somewhat surprising to me, I think, from the standpoint that Commandment
00:02:36doesn't seem to be getting any love whatsoever. He's probably going to be third betting choice
00:02:42in the Kentucky Derby. I thought he was extremely impressive in the Florida Derby. I thought he beat
00:02:48a tougher field than the other horses have been beating, and I thought he did it with a disadvantage.
00:02:53So I thought the choice was going to be a lot tougher for some of these guys.
00:02:58So now Irad and Flavian have both abandoned Commandment for other horses, and of course,
00:03:06Further Ado gets abandoned as well. So there have been some very interesting jockey assignments here.
00:03:12I'm mostly surprised, more than anything, that Flavian has chosen to ride Emerging Market
00:03:20over Further Ado. And I think there may be some trainer choices here, maybe wanting to stay a
00:03:28little closer to one trainer than another, or maybe a previous commitment. I'm not sure. We tried to get
00:03:34Irad and Flavian both to come on the podcast this week, and it's like they don't seemingly don't really
00:03:40want to talk about it a whole lot right now. But some very interesting jockey assignments,
00:03:46especially since Emerging Market is probably going to be 12 to 1, at least, in the Kentucky Derby,
00:03:53even though we won the Louisiana Derby. And Further Ado is either going to be the favorite,
00:03:57I think, or the second choice.
00:04:00Yeah, honestly, I wasn't surprised about Renegade. I firmly believe that he's going to be the favorite.
00:04:07Same trainer trains the pair of them. And in my opinion, his preps have been better. And he's been
00:04:13more impressive to the eye and a little bit more eye-catching than Kamama, in my humble opinion.
00:04:19So that doesn't surprise me. Flavian, I mean, he's got to go with Chad. He was aboard his 3,000th
00:04:26winner the other day. They've had tremendous success. That obviously has a lot to do with it.
00:04:32And in fairness to Flavian, he was willing to come on, but we wanted Irad and him together.
00:04:37Flavian was going to come on this morning and have a good chit-chat to us.
00:04:40But we let him off the hook. Yeah, I mean, a lot of times you stick with the guy that
00:04:47you win a lot
00:04:48of races for, and that's emerging market. And I'm not knocking emerging market, not as a good horse.
00:04:52He's just got a little less seasoning than the others, and maybe not quite as brilliant as he
00:04:58was in his first start. But he can surely bounce back and run a very big race. Flavian's high in
00:05:05demand, and that's a problem that they have to come across. You can't keep everybody happy.
00:05:10I mean, at the end of the day, the Derby is the Derby, and honestly, all allegiances should be
00:05:15thrown out the window, in my opinion. But if you can't get over that every single person wants to
00:05:21win the Derby, and no trainer's got a problem taking you off a horse, right? They don't have a problem,
00:05:26but you've got to stay on a horse. So I think you should get a free pass for the Derby.
00:05:31That would be
00:05:32my opinion.
00:05:33Zoe, I want to add to what Randy said to this. And you nailed it. The Chad Brown-Flavian
00:05:43connection is very solid, and Pratt can ride for anyone in the country. But right now,
00:05:49Chad is his main guy. But this is the Derby. And Randy, I think for the Derby, you've got to
00:05:57go with
00:05:57the best horse. And look, Emerging Market can win the Derby. Of course he can. But Commandment just
00:06:04has better credentials. And you normally look at the odds. Commandment would probably be about
00:06:09four to one. Emerging Market, maybe Randy, eight to one, something like that. That's what really
00:06:14surprised me. That I think, to me, if I'm in Flavian's shoes, I say, Chad, I love you, pal. I'll
00:06:21be
00:06:22aboard all those grade one grass-winning fillies for you all throughout the year. But I've got to
00:06:26take Commandment.
00:06:27Yeah, I think if I said earlier, I get confused sometimes with all this jockey maneuvering. I
00:06:33don't pay as much attention to jockeys as Gary Bailey does. I think I might have said that Flavian
00:06:38had a choice between Further Adieu and Emerging Market, which he didn't. I read Ortiz wrote Further
00:06:44Adieu in the Bluegrass Stakes. But to me, honestly, other than trying to analyze, and from a handicapping
00:06:57perspective, which horse a particular jockey prefers, since they've been sitting on their backs,
00:07:03to me, it doesn't really matter. And I joke a lot of times on air with Jerry, the jockeys don't
00:07:09matter.
00:07:09Of course, of course, jockeys matter. Oh, yeah. But my point is that when you get to races like the
00:07:16Kentucky Derby, and you're handicapping the horses, is there really a difference between
00:07:23Ired Ortiz, and Flavian Pratt, and John Velasquez, and Luis Saez, and Tyler Gaflione, and all these top
00:07:33jockeys, I mean, they're all so freaking good that it doesn't really matter. They're almost
00:07:39interchangeable with the horses. You just assume that you're going to get a top class Eclipse Award
00:07:45level ride on your horse. And furthermore, I think the whole thing, and Zoe can speak about this,
00:07:53but Jerry talks about it all the time, the whole thing about familiarity with the horses, Jerry always
00:07:58says, that sometimes, and I've heard other jockeys say this too, sometimes the best ride on a horse
00:08:03is your very first time on them. You have no preconceived notions, unless a horse has some
00:08:08real eccentricities that the trainer needs to tell you about. Otherwise, as Jerry says, it's like
00:08:15renting a car. You just sit in the car, you adjust the mirrors, and you go. So I don't think
00:08:22it really
00:08:22matters, honestly, which jockey rides which horse at a race of this level.
00:08:28All right, so now the discussion, and this is a good derby with a deep field, and it's hard,
00:08:34you know, we have a top three, the three we've been talking about, Further Adieu, Commandment,
00:08:40and Renegade, Zoe. Petente, Petente. Okay, I'm not sure if it's the derby. All right, all right,
00:08:49you, you, you can have your say. I understand that, but okay, but you don't think Petente is
00:08:54going to be the favorite. I want to know who the favorite is going to be, and I'll start with
00:08:58Randy,
00:08:59because you really study the odds. I can see on one hand, I can see it going, I think it's
00:09:04going to
00:09:04be either Renegade or Further Adieu. I don't think it's a big commandment, and I think the betters will
00:09:08look at two factors. I think a lot of betters will say, I'm going with Irad because he picked
00:09:13Renegade, and that'll make him the favorite, and then I think a lot of other betters will look at
00:09:18that 106 buyer for Further Adieu. To me, the buyer numbers move the tote board, at least among non-CAW
00:09:28players, more than any single factor, and that 106 buyer jumps off the page. Okay, Swami, who's going
00:09:36to be the favorite in the Kentucky Derby? Well, I think you're right about commandment. I mean,
00:09:41the last Kentucky Derby future wager, you had commandment at seven to one and Renegade at four
00:09:48to one. So I think that's a clear sign that the public, probably because of what Zoe pointed out,
00:09:53the decisiveness of the win by Renegade in the Kentucky Derby, as opposed to the much shorter
00:10:00margin of victory by commandment in the Florida Derby against a tougher field. I think that's going
00:10:12to make a difference, right? So it's going to be, I agree with you, Bill, it's almost a toss-up
00:10:18to me
00:10:18as to who's going to be the favorite between Renegade and Further Adieu. I might lean a little bit
00:10:26toward Further Adieu, but I could, it's almost, I could just as easily be wrong on that.
00:10:34It's definitely going to be Renegade. No question, Renegade. No question whatsoever. If Further Adieu
00:10:41had had his two giant margins of victory anywhere else, but Keeneland twice, it would be a different
00:10:48story. But they're both at Keeneland, and we're not running at Keeneland. And I think the betting
00:10:54public is not stupid, and they're going to take that into consideration.
00:10:59So why would it make, why would it make that much difference?
00:11:03Because he just might be a freak at Keeneland. He loves Keeneland.
00:11:06I mean, why? That's counterintuitive to me.
00:11:10They're two different kind of, they're two different surfaces.
00:11:14Yeah, but are they that different?
00:11:17Some horses, some horses love Keeneland. Like you've watched the races over the years.
00:11:22Horses, especially on the turf course as well at Keeneland, because it's a sandy based turf course.
00:11:26I've seen horses that hate the turf win on the Keeneland turf horses. I've seen horses that love
00:11:32the turf lose on the Keeneland turf course. And the dirt course is a great dirt course, but it's
00:11:38horses for courses. And he, until you prove me otherwise, is a whole different, is a horse for
00:11:43Keeneland. He's not run bad anywhere else. He just has not been brilliant anywhere else.
00:11:50To me, it falls under the category of the old trainer excuse, he didn't like the track.
00:11:56Track's too cuppy. This and this and this and this. To me, the difference between Keeneland and
00:12:01Churchill Downs, there's sand, there's sand, loam and clay, right? I think his performance in the
00:12:09Kentucky Jockey Club, further ado, is more likely to be the result. And he won, but it wasn't as dynamic.
00:12:17It's more likely to be the result of other factors. I'm not a big believer at all, typically,
00:12:24in what they call the bounce theory. But further ado, he's not a big horse. He's a really small
00:12:30horse. And maybe when he was a two-year-old, that 20-length win at Keeneland in the maiden
00:12:37race, even though Brad Cox gave him plenty of time afterward, you know, maybe that resulted,
00:12:42maybe he bounced off of that. And he wasn't quite as effective in victory. He wasn't quite
00:12:48as eye-catching in the Kentucky Jockey Club. And now, again, a huge performance at Keeneland.
00:12:54To me, that's a bigger question mark than the venue between Keeneland and Churchill Downs,
00:13:00is if that first result was because of a bounce, what might happen now that he wins the Bluegrass
00:13:06of my 11th? Can we go for the fifth bottle of wine? Favoritism? I'll take Renegade. You can
00:13:14have one. We're going to get to that a little bit later in the show. Okay, Zoe, I owe you
00:13:19this much,
00:13:20though. And you do owe us a disclaimer, but why are you so high in Potente? I think he's a
00:13:27very good
00:13:27horse. I firmly believe he's going to like that horse. And I know I am close to the connections,
00:13:33and I need to leave that out, you know, put that out there. He's a good horse. He's trained
00:13:38by Bob Baffert. Bob believes in him, and he's going to the Derby with a fighting chance. And the
00:13:44mile and the quarter is only going to help him. He's got some turf in his pedigree, which we all
00:13:50know. Turf horses run very well over that main track at Churchill. He just needs a little bit of
00:13:56speed up front to help him out, because I think he's a better horse coming from off the pace.
00:14:00And he's Bob Baffert. You can't discount Bob Baffert. He's going with one horse.
00:14:05One is in there, and that's him.
00:14:08All right, we will keep an eye on Potente. So some Derby prep news. People at Oakland Park
00:14:16announced this week that they're mulling over moving the Bluegrass, excuse me, of course,
00:14:22not the Bluegrass, the Arkansas Derby, to make it three weeks before the Kentucky Derby. And the TDN
00:14:29colleague, TD Thornton, thought it was a wonderful idea. TD, I love your stuff, but I disagree with you
00:14:36very strongly. Three weeks doesn't work anymore. The Arkansas Derby is fine where it is. It's one of
00:14:43the strongest Derby prep races there are. Randy, you're an Oakland guy. I don't see the logic behind
00:14:50this because I think that people will say three weeks is too soon before the Kentucky Derby, which is
00:14:57why presumably they moved it back to five weeks from three weeks in the first place.
00:15:02Yeah, I was surprised. I was surprised to read that. I thought it was a good move to move it
00:15:09to five
00:15:09weeks. And I think the results since they moved it to five weeks have been solid. There have been
00:15:15five Kentucky Derby, Arkansas Derby runnings now at the five-week mark. And they've all been solid.
00:15:23I mean, Cyberknife was probably the weakest one of them. That was in year one. Then you come back
00:15:28the next year and Angel of Empire wins convincingly by four plus lengths in the Arkansas Derby. And he's
00:15:34the Kentucky Derby favorite and runs a solid third. The next year, Muth would have been among the top
00:15:43four or five choices in Kentucky. He was a convincing winner in Arkansas. But of course, Bob Baffert was in
00:15:48Churchill Downs exile at that point. Muth couldn't run. And who finished third behind Muth?
00:15:53Mystic Dan goes on to win the Kentucky Derby. Then Sandman was the second betting choice last year,
00:15:59capitalized on a pace meltdown in the Arkansas Derby and didn't run all that well in Kentucky.
00:16:04But every year, every year so far, except for maybe year one,
00:16:08uh, the Arkansas Derby has been, you know, right there front and center in the Kentucky Derby
00:16:13conversation. And it's going to be again this year with Zoe's renegade. So it surprises me a
00:16:19little bit, but I will say this, uh, the Oak Lawn Park racing secretary, Pat Pope, who I have known
00:16:27for my God, almost five decades now, in my opinion, he's been there since 1995 as the Oak Lawn
00:16:36racing secretary, right? He and I both started the same year at Oak Lawn Park management. I was the
00:16:40operations director there for a couple of years. Uh, in my opinion, Pat is one of, if not the best
00:16:48racing secretary in America. And Lou Sella at Oak Lawn is going to lean heavily on the opinion of Pat
00:16:54Pope. And Pat is smart enough to lean heavily on the opinion of guys like Bob Baffert and Todd
00:17:01Pletcher and Brad Cox and others whose horses he'll be recruiting annually for the Arkansas Derby.
00:17:08And so if they decide to move back to three weeks, uh, it will surprise me, but I would lean
00:17:18toward
00:17:18Pat Pope's expertise and his connections. And maybe, you know, he knows something talking to those guys
00:17:27that, that, that others don't. Um, it worked with American Pharaoh, but American Pharaoh was behind
00:17:34schedule. And that's the only reason, the only reason why Baffert chose a later prep for the rebel
00:17:41and the Arkansas Derby with American Pharaoh in 2015. Yeah, I can't see it happening. I really,
00:17:49really can't. I mean, they already did acquiesce this year and it was a great thing that they ran their
00:17:54major stakes on a Sunday instead of a Saturday, which was super smart. Like that was brilliant
00:18:01because you want the best horses and the best jockeys. You know, if you've got the best horses,
00:18:06you want the best jockeys. So if they're riding on a Saturday somewhere, they can't be riding on a
00:18:10Saturday at Oak Lawn as well. So they shifted it to Sunday, which was a brilliant idea. And, and that's
00:18:17enough. Don't need to move it. Most of these big trainers already have two or three or four.
00:18:22They're trying to split their horses up five weeks out from the Derby. So it's perfect timing.
00:18:29Well, I think we're all in agreement on that. Well, here's what we're going to do. We're going
00:18:33to take a little break and we're going to hear from our friends at Keeneland. I'll also find out
00:18:37who the fastest horse of the week is. And we come back, our Gainesway guest of the week is the
00:18:42chairman of the jockey club, Everett Dobson. Stay with us.
00:18:46The TDM Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland. Momentum doesn't pause when the
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00:19:20the graduates from last year, grade three winner Water Tower, they paid $310,000 for. Duvet Day,
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00:19:44So the stands will still be packed in 50 years. That's why we come to work every day. Obsess over
00:19:52every single detail. Because the story of racing is written one moment at a time. And the future of our
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00:20:08As always, our fastest horse of the week brought to you by the fast sires at Windstar Farm. We have
00:20:15elaborated at length in the past on how fast life is good was as a racehorse. Well, his first winner
00:20:23took place at Keeneland last Wednesday. Wagley in one of those four and a half furlong dashes
00:20:30scored a three and a half length win to get life is good on the board. Of course, life is
00:20:36good is into
00:20:37mischief's fastest son who ran nine triple digit buyer speed figures, topped by a career best 112.
00:20:45And now with Wagley and others to come, his two year olds have come out running as well. Life is
00:20:50good
00:20:50stands at Windstar Farm for a fee of $60,000. The fastest horse of the week at Oak Lawn Park
00:20:59on Saturday in the Apple Blossom Handicap. Claret Beret with a 105 buyer speed figure soundly defeating
00:21:08nitrogen last year's three year old Philly champion. Remember nitrogen had just run in the Azeri
00:21:14stakes and was beaten with the buyer speed figure of just 91. So it was pretty obvious that nitrogen
00:21:21didn't really run her a race, so to speak, in the Azeri. Would she bounce back in the Apple Blossom?
00:21:27Well, according to the numbers, nitrogen did bounce back with one of her normal outstanding efforts,
00:21:34but Claret Beret was just too good. Claret Beret opened up a big lead turning for home
00:21:40and went on to a convincing victory. Her second convincing victory in a row stretched out to two
00:21:47turns by trainer Safi Joseph in the Royal Delta Stakes at Gulfstream. She won that race by five lengths
00:21:52prior to the Apple Blossom, so Claret Beret. Now with a win in your end for the Breeders' Cup
00:21:57Distab, who looks like a key player in the Distab division and is our fastest horse of the week.
00:22:10Welcome in now to Gainesway Guest of the Week, and it's a special one this week. It is Everett
00:22:14Dobson, the chairman of the Jockey Club. Everett, I understand you have a very busy schedule. Thanks
00:22:19so much for spending some time out of your day to talk to us here on the TDN Writer's Room
00:22:24Podcast.
00:22:25My pleasure, Bill. Good to be here.
00:22:27All right. Well, it's great to have you. So, so much to talk about with the Jockey Club. And as
00:22:32you're well aware, a lot of public criticism has been levied against the organization of late. And
00:22:39before we get into any of that, let's go back to the basics. And what do you see as the
00:22:45role of the
00:22:45Jockey Club when it comes to both the non-profit registry and the for-profit businesses?
00:22:54Well, let's start with the role of the Jockey Club. The primary role, the first
00:23:00role of the Jockey Club is allegiance to the thoroughbred horse. And obviously that includes
00:23:07a lot of things, including aftercare, breed diversity, protection of the thoroughbred horse.
00:23:13So really everything starts there. We can never ignore that that's our primary role. Beyond that,
00:23:20the Jockey Club has accepted a leadership role around the collection of data that goes into,
00:23:28you know, the past performances. Obviously that's a foundational and important part of our sport.
00:23:36We package that data for others to use to help the betting public and our fans. Beyond that, we're in
00:23:45the pedigree business. We collect the data that represents the history of our thoroughbreds over
00:23:51the last hundred plus years. So that's, you know, that's a high level view of what the Jockey Club has
00:24:00historically accepted as its role. I'm a big believer that the Jockey Club is in a bit of a transition
00:24:06period right now where we have an opportunity to represent, you know, more of the constituents in the
00:24:12sport and to maybe better represent the constituents. And I, and I view the constituents as, you know,
00:24:18anybody that's making a living in the sport and especially the racetracks. If I do my job right,
00:24:24I believe the racetracks are going to have a better opportunity to complete their mission. And their
00:24:30mission is largely driven around profitability. But, you know, again, I think that Jockey Club has been,
00:24:37and will be under my leadership, you know, a leader in the sport where that leads. We all know what
00:24:45the
00:24:45issues are. And obviously we're working on that. So I hope that answered the question. It's a,
00:24:51it's a pretty broad answer, a pretty, pretty broad answer to a pretty broad question.
00:24:56Well, drilling down a little more specifically, obviously most people know most of the criticism,
00:25:02public criticism of the Jockey Club has been levied by Mike Rapoli. She's been joined by Aaron
00:25:08Wellman of Eclipse Thoroughbreds and some other ownership group groups. You have been sort of
00:25:14spared from the criticism. I think you and Mike have a lot of things in common, actually. You're both
00:25:20self-made businessmen of tremendous success. Neither one of you are from aristocratic horse racing
00:25:27families. You're both involved in horse racing ownership, or you've got your passion for the
00:25:32sport. Mike's primary complaints, I guess, are what he considers to be a lack of transparency
00:25:38and a lack of accountability of the Jockey Club. He's mentioned the $48 million in reserves. He's
00:25:44mentioned a $1.85 million loan to Heisa. And he wants to sit down, apparently, in a room and go
00:25:52over
00:25:52all these grievances with the Jockey Club. It would obviously be contentious. It would obviously
00:25:58be a lot of animosity there. But he says he's been completely shot down and the Jockey Club won't
00:26:03respond to a request for a sit down. What would be wrong with a sit down interview at this point
00:26:09with Rapoli and Aaron Wellman and Pat Cummings and others?
00:26:13Yeah, nothing. We have opened the line of communications. I've spent, I don't know how
00:26:20many hours in private meetings with Mike and public meetings and involved. We had a very
00:26:28contentious meeting amongst the stewards with Mike in Saratoga last fall. I'm willing to meet with
00:26:34him anytime. I can repeatedly communicate that to him. And you know, it's interesting. When we've met,
00:26:41to your point earlier, I would say 95% of the things we're talking about, we absolutely agree on.
00:26:48There's very little disagreement between my own opinions, frankly, the opinions of my fellow
00:26:55stewards at the Jockey Club and what Mike believes. We believe we need to grow the sport. We believe we
00:27:01need to better market the sport. We believe we have challenges around full crop and aftercare.
00:27:07All of those things are on the table when we have conversations with Mike and there's very
00:27:10little we disagree on. Now, there's a few things, you know, his opinions about the Breeders'
00:27:15Cup and the state of racing in California. You know, we take exception to some of those things.
00:27:22So, you know, that's what's really been a little bit confusing, that he's been so adversarial to the
00:27:29institution of the Jockey Club and the Breeders' Cup and some others. But we're working really hard to
00:27:34to address those issues. And so, you know, I respect Mike's opinion. He's obviously very successful.
00:27:41I value his opinion. And so there's nothing really, you know, I have no ill will towards Mike at all.
00:27:48I wish we could have a better line of communication.
00:27:50Where do you think the disconnect is?
00:27:54Well, right now, the disconnect is he's threatened to sue us. And so it's hard when you and when anyone
00:28:00threatens to sue your institution, you're required. You don't have an option but to involve lawyers.
00:28:09And they're very expensive. We're spending more money on the legal element to the conversation
00:28:17with Mike than we should be. And so I hope we can get past that. I believe we can get
00:28:22past it.
00:28:23But it's a little unfortunate because you have to frame all of your communication in that legal arena.
00:28:29And that's just frankly not productive in my opinion.
00:28:32Everett, the sport does not have a commissioner, as we all know. And Mike, kids that he calls himself
00:28:38the commissioner, but he's not the commissioner. And I think one of the things that your critics
00:28:44expect of the jockey club, as that you are the answer to fixing all the sports problems,
00:28:50that maybe you guys have the magic wand. And is that fair? And I kind of want to go back
00:28:56to then
00:28:57to my original question. What is the jockey club's role, as you see it, when it comes to,
00:29:04quote unquote, fixing the problems that we all know, you know, Mike Rapoli knows, Randy knows,
00:29:09I know, are serious issues for this sport? Well, you know, it's interesting.
00:29:18The jockey club does have a voice, and it does have a role. It is the breed registry that is
00:29:26acknowledged by every state jurisdiction in the United States. And frankly, the 69 other breed
00:29:33registries around the world. It has a responsibility to lead the world in some cases, particularly around
00:29:39breed diversity and health of the thoroughbred. When we get into the, you know, the business of
00:29:45thoroughbred racing and breeding in the United States, we would benefit from a more centralized
00:29:51authority. I concur on that 100%. And it's another thing we agree with Mike on. But, you know, frankly,
00:30:01as a result of not having a centralized authority, it's incumbent upon us, it's required of us to have
00:30:07more collaboration. My message recently to the HBPA conference in Arkansas was a message of
00:30:14collaboration. We're forced into that. We don't have a commissioner. But it's really unfortunate when
00:30:21you have the divisiveness in the sport along issues that, frankly, we should be more in agreement on.
00:30:30And I use the analogy, if you have somebody that is maybe on the fence, maybe wants to participate in
00:30:37our sport as a new owner, as a new breeder, as a new better, that noise of diversification or
00:30:44divisiveness, I should say, is confusing. We're complicating the message right now. And I believe
00:30:51we should collaborate, bring a more unified voice, and help grow the sport to the general fan public,
00:30:59the new fans that are maybe wanting to participate. Maybe they're looking at us going,
00:31:03do I want to get in the middle of that? But then again, where are we right now? We're in
00:31:09the middle
00:31:09of the Triple Crown season. This is the exceptional period for our sport. This is a time for us to
00:31:16elevate and rise above and present this majestic sport to the general public. We only get a few weeks
00:31:24of the year to do that. Now is the time. Let's take advantage of it. So that's my message.
00:31:30All right. And we want to talk a little bit about some of the initiatives you've got right now going,
00:31:34starting to try to take advantage of this time of year and fan interest. One more follow-up
00:31:39question, though, about the Mike Rapoli thing. One of his grievances, seemingly near the top of his
00:31:44list, seems to be the $48 million that he says the Jockey Club is sitting on. Who decides what it's
00:31:52being
00:31:52used for? What is it going to be used for? I'll give you a chance to answer that. What are
00:31:57your thoughts on that?
00:31:59Yeah. Well, first of all, you know, the Jockey Club has under its umbrella
00:32:06three institutions effectively, two charitable institutions that are very, very important to the
00:32:12success of the thoroughbred long-term. One of those is the Grayson Jockey Club Research Foundation. It has
00:32:17actually $50 million in its endowment. Those funds are to support research at, you know, academic
00:32:26institutions around the country. Additionally, we have the Jockey Safety Net Foundation that has a
00:32:32little under $20 million. Both of those are charitable organizations that go back into the benefiting
00:32:39critical elements of our game and our people and our activities. Beyond that, the Jockey Club itself,
00:32:46the businesses of the Jockey Club, or the Jockey Club itself, has a little over $40 million that we,
00:32:53in turn, invest prudently and wisely. And we take those proceeds and we contribute them back to
00:33:00initiatives. Most of them are nonprofits or many of them are nonprofits. Some of them, like America's
00:33:06Best Racing, are going into initiatives that we believe are going to help grow the sport.
00:33:10But without the benefit of the profits from that endowment or those funds, we don't have an ability
00:33:19to contribute to those initiatives, whether it's aftercare or the racetrack chaplaincy. I mean,
00:33:26all those things. I mean, on our website, you can go to them and there's over 50 of them that
00:33:31we
00:33:31contribute to. So where am I coming out on the importance of and the reason we have that money?
00:33:38It's very important. We need it. We desperately need it. So to suggest otherwise, to me, is
00:33:44irresponsible. It's just, it's not logical. I'm not saying it's irresponsible. It's not logical
00:33:50that we should, you know, do something with that money. I mean, we're doing things that are helping
00:33:57bring people into the sport. And that's really what it amounts to. Everett, one of the other
00:34:03thorny issues for the Jockey Club, and this started before you took over, was the whole idea of a cap
00:34:09on stallions and how many mayors they can be bred to. It's gone back and forth. And I think you
00:34:15might
00:34:16have caught people a little bit by surprise when you made a speech at the National HBPA saying that,
00:34:21once again, the Jockey Club was looking again at this issue. In this time of about, it seemed like
00:34:29five minutes later, the Kentucky legislature acted and put some measures into effect that basically
00:34:36kiboshed, again, any thoughts or ideas, or correct me if you think I'm wrong about that, but pretty much
00:34:42made it next to impossible for you to practically put a stallion cap into place. Considering that,
00:34:49what is the Jockey Club's latest thoughts about a stallion cap? And if you had to do this all over
00:34:55again, would you have handled it any differently? Well, I mean, let me start by saying,
00:35:02it's interesting that the headlines caught the attention. The message, the message I want to,
00:35:07I want to double down on. And frankly, I started on, I made the very, almost a very identical comment
00:35:13at the Roundtable Conference last August, right when I accepted the role as chairman.
00:35:19And it's, and it's, it's part of it. And again, I get back to what's the role of the Jockey
00:35:24Club to
00:35:25protect the breed. So let me, let me tell you where I'm coming from. The, the coefficient of
00:35:32inbreeding was the message. The coefficient of inbreeding in a closed stud dip, we don't invite other
00:35:39breeds into the thoroughbred. The coefficient of inbreeding has accelerated.
00:35:44There, there has, there has been multiple studies. All of them agree on one thing. And that is the
00:35:50coefficient of inbreeding has accelerated. It's actually accelerating at an accelerating rate
00:35:56right now. And to give you some, some understanding of that, you first have to understand
00:36:03in context where we are right now on a global basis. So the latest data I have is from 2024.
00:36:11There's
00:36:11roughly 80,000 thoroughbreds born in the world in 2024. To give you a context, 16,000, a little over
00:36:2016,000 were born in the United States. That's roughly 20, we are roughly 20% of the global full
00:36:28crop.
00:36:29That's trending, actually trended down in 2025. There are 123,000 total thoroughbreds born,
00:36:37of which the USA was 35,000. So both globally in the US, the number of thoroughbreds born are coming
00:36:45down.
00:36:45So, so that's one element. That's one data point. Let's talk about stallions. So in 2024, there were 940
00:36:54stallions in the United States that bred thoroughbred mares. Okay, that's down from like 2700 in 2007.
00:37:04So, you know, 17 years ago. So what we have is fewer stallions breeding fewer mares, but even the
00:37:14stallion population is declining even faster than the mare population. So you're, the logic to suggest
00:37:22that the coefficient of inbreeding is not accelerating is just not there. And I think
00:37:26everybody agrees with that. Even the study that was commissioned by the University of Kentucky and
00:37:33University of Nebraska from two cohorts that involved 188, 185, you know, thoroughbreds over
00:37:43two separate timeframes, one earlier beginning in 1965, and then one earlier ending in 2017. Both of
00:37:51those studies suggested that the coefficient of inbreeding or that, that, that study suggested that
00:37:57it has in fact accelerated. So no one's in disagreement on that. What we have to understand
00:38:03now is whether or not we've had anything, what's called a deleterious effect on the thoroughbred itself,
00:38:13either in the United States or any part of the world. So that's really at the heart of what the,
00:38:19what we need to be understanding. It's not, it's not that the numbers, the numbers don't lie,
00:38:24they're simple. It's whether or not we have had a negative impact on the breed. That'll show up in
00:38:31fertility rates. It'll show up in performance. It'll show up in the general health of the horse.
00:38:37And let me make one other point. And this is, this is probably as important point as I want to
00:38:40make.
00:38:41We're, although we are responsible for the, for the horse and the thoroughbred breed, we are also in
00:38:49business. This, this industry, the thoroughbred breed is dependent upon the, the sport of thoroughbred
00:38:57racing around the world. So, and in the economics of that include the stallion operation. It includes
00:39:05the racetrack owners. It includes, it includes all of the breeding farms, of course. So we have to be
00:39:11mindful that this is a two part equation. We have to be mindful that it, that we're in the business.
00:39:19People, people's livelihoods rely on us, but we also have to accept and understand that there's
00:39:26two parts to this equation. So my job, my role is to lead the, lead the United States Jockey Club,
00:39:33and in turn, lead the world on understanding the science, you know, include the scientists,
00:39:40the world recognized scientists in helping us make this decision. But also, and this is the point I
00:39:45tried to make in Arkansas, also include the people have business interests in this sport,
00:39:50especially the stallion farms. So that was probably where the message got lost. But I want to make that
00:39:55message very clear today. There's two parts of this equation. We're not leaving anything, anyone behind.
00:40:01And frankly, the, the legislation that, that was approved in Kentucky, there was some very important
00:40:06language that we worked with the speaker, Speaker Osborne on. And I, and I want to apply, first of
00:40:11all, Speaker Osborne on, on working with us to make sure that we drive home, that this is not just
00:40:17a
00:40:17business question. And it's not just a breed question. The, the language that, that we're very
00:40:23happy to get included was the, you know, essentially it said there's, there should be, there shall be
00:40:28coordination between a registrar, us, the breeders, relevant regulatory or industry bodies.
00:40:36And, and to provide a structured mechanism for the evaluate, evaluation of emerging issues,
00:40:44including inbreeding limits, genetic diversity, and industry best practices. So that's, that language is
00:40:51very helpful. I applaud the, the legislature in Kentucky for incorporating that language. That's,
00:40:56that's really what I wanted to say to the world. We need to include everyone. And that's what the
00:41:01Kentucky legislation says. Thank you. And I think we all agree that protecting the genetic diversity
00:41:08of the thoroughbred is of paramount importance to the health of the sport going forward. And so using
00:41:14that as a very awkward segue, it's, it's also very important to capitalize on this time of the year
00:41:21from a marketing perspective and thoroughbred racing. When everybody's looking ahead to the
00:41:26Kentucky Derby and the Preakness and the Belmont stakes. And the jockey club is currently trying
00:41:30to do that through a social media initiative. Tell us a little bit about that.
00:41:36Yeah, it's, you know, it's called the unbridled campaign. I am, I'm, I'm kind of like you, Randy. I,
00:41:45I didn't come, I didn't start out in this world, but there's a, these are essentially docu-series
00:41:50companies that we're producing that are, you know, 30 to 60 second sound bites that, you know, frankly,
00:41:58are designed for, to, to resonate with the new fans, the opportunity to present the Kentucky Derby story
00:42:06to new fans in, in a, in a very real, you know, these aren't, we're not portraying actors out there.
00:42:14We're interviewing the Bob Bafferts and, and, you know, the backstretch workers and the horse,
00:42:19and we're going and, you know, talking to the people that are, that are grooming the horses.
00:42:22So this is, this is real. This gets down to the basic element of how our sport, you know,
00:42:29functions on a day-to-day basis. But it also resonates, I think it's going to resonate highly
00:42:34with how the, how the general public is consuming media today. You know, there, this is not,
00:42:40this is not getting distributed on broadcast television. This is TikTok and YouTube and,
00:42:45and those mediums. So that's, that's the world we live in. And I'm, I'm learning it as I, as I
00:42:50get
00:42:50older, I'm, I'm learning to appreciate it. My kids have taught me a lot. And so, uh, we're, we're all
00:42:55kind of going through this together. Yeah. Let's not forget broadcast TV while you're at it. Okay.
00:43:01No, let's get, let's keep that in. Let's keep that. No, not at all. Um, no, we're, I mean,
00:43:08Josh, no, our, our podcast partners are, are very, very important to us. And so,
00:43:14so the series is called the unbridled series. It's produced by the Hennigan brothers who have
00:43:19done lots of things in horse racing. Why don't we take a minute to look at one of the first
00:43:24ones
00:43:24that was produced in the unbridled series. It's Bob Baffert talking about his thoughts about
00:43:29the road to the Kentucky Derby and what the Kentucky Derby means to him.
00:43:33What do you think? Grass or dirt? Dirt? Short? Long. Long? I don't know shit.
00:43:42I think he's short. He says long. Yeah. The eight team's out here right now.
00:43:48If there's a Derby winner, he's out here right now. It's nice to have nice horses. You know,
00:43:53that's the excitement of knowing you have a good horse. And as long as they run like they're training,
00:43:57that's great. You know, sometimes they'll be trained well, then they don't run. So,
00:44:01there goes Patente right there. I really like that horse. If I could just get one more,
00:44:08if I could have gotten an allowance race into him, it would have helped him a lot.
00:44:11Here comes Brant down the lane right here, the gray horse. We're pretty excited about him. See what he
00:44:17does. The race, there's a lot of speed in there, so I don't know what's going to happen. These horses,
00:44:22they take you to the Derby. You can't force it. And if they happen to be doing well, you go
00:44:28on. If
00:44:28they're not, they'll be great later on down the road. Living life no different since 1980, you know?
00:44:36So that's when I got into this thing. Every day, thinking about it, breathing, living the horses.
00:44:41But I still enjoy it, especially when you're training a place like San Diego. I mean, you can't beat this
00:44:46place. This is the most beautiful track in America. And this is my office, so
00:44:52it's either this or get a real job. All right? So this is why I picked training horses.
00:44:57Well, that was a great look at the Bob Baffert video on TikTok. Randy, I'm getting more into
00:45:05this stuff. I watch you on broadcast television, but yes, we understand that it is a world of TikTok
00:45:11and YouTube and all that. So Everett, I want to segue to at least one more question. I don't know
00:45:15if Randy
00:45:15has another one for you before we let you go. But something that I personally have never quite
00:45:23understood is the difficulty that the SAFE Act has had getting really any kind of traction in
00:45:30Washington, D.C. And for those people, I'll just briefly explain what that is. It's an act that would
00:45:35do many things, but most importantly would prohibit the transportation of horses for the purposes of
00:45:42slaughter to Canada and Mexico. So there is no slaughter as we speak in the United States of
00:45:47America. But the practice for all practical purposes of the slaughtering of all breeds of
00:45:53horses does take place because the buyers can still buy the horses at these auctions and ship them to
00:46:00Canada and Mexico. Where does the Jockey Club stand on that? And I know, again, you know,
00:46:06your politics is not really what the Jockey Club is all about. But what can the Jockey Club do to
00:46:12help
00:46:13this? What I think is a would be a very important advancement in the whole issue of aftercare and the
00:46:22care of these magnificent animals. What can the Jockey Club do to help push this across the finish line?
00:46:29Yeah, that's a good question, Bill. I wrote an op-ed for your publication last fall, I guess,
00:46:37that highlights how passionate I am personally about the issue, like you, I suppose. But
00:46:43it's a tough one legislatively to get the legislation that would absolutely ban the export of these animals,
00:46:51these beautiful animals for that purpose. It's going to take, you know, bipartisan support across
00:46:56the, you know, both aisles. And that's really hard. I understand that the pushback when we have
00:47:02pushback is the so-called slippery slope argument. I don't think that stands any muster at all. I mean,
00:47:09I think that's a weak, weak argument for those other in the ag world that suggests that's the excuse. So,
00:47:16we're going to continue to push. I am really, I'm here, I'm thankfully, thankfully, thankfully
00:47:22thrilled that you're raising the issue today because, you know, we need to keep it out there. We need to
00:47:27keep it in front of our legislatures and keep, keep talking about it. But we're going to push.
00:47:32We're going to, it's, as long as, as long as I have a voice, that's going to be, continue to
00:47:37be one of the
00:47:38messages we, we strongly advocate for.
00:47:41Very good. Well, Everett, once again, thank you so much for your time and some very interesting insights from you.
00:47:49And I'm glad we gave you an opportunity to explain what the Jockey Club is doing and to explain,
00:47:58to tribute some of the things that have been said about the organization. That's what we're here for,
00:48:04to present all sides of the story. So thank you so much for joining us as a Gainesway guest of
00:48:09the week.
00:48:10And once again, thank you very much and continue good work with the Jockey Club.
00:48:14Yep. No, thank you guys. We will continue marching forward.
00:48:19Our guest of the week, Everett Dobson, appeared courtesy of Gainesway Farm, home to Stallion McKenzie,
00:48:25the OBS April sale is now underway and Gainesway will be watching with particular interest now,
00:48:31especially after a McKenzie filly, hip 754, went a furlong in nine and three-fifths seconds.
00:48:38That was a bullet. It was the co-fastest time of Thursday. Another filly, hip 661,
00:48:44covered the furlong in nine and four-fifths seconds, as did hip 228, a colt. McKenzie was
00:48:51the leading first crop sire in 2024 in all these categories. Grade one winners, grade one performers,
00:48:58graded stakes winners and graded stakes performers. And then last year, he was the leading second crop
00:49:04sire in 2025 with grade one winners and grade one performers. That's a lot for McKenzie,
00:49:09who stands at Gainesway, for a fee of $75,000. McKenzie in a dominant performance.
00:49:25Million two, million two, right there, million two hundred thousand.
00:49:28Baeza gets his moment in the sun in the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:49:31Chancer, McPatrick wins the champagne impressively. Spectacular display from Scottish Lassie, who's in
00:49:39front by 15 legs. Well, not really a major prep for the Kentucky Derby this weekend. We did have
00:49:49the Lexington Stakes at Keeneland. It's just not that time of the year as we take a lull with the
00:49:53prep
00:49:53season and get ready for the Derby itself. But I just wanted to get a shout out to Keeneland because
00:49:59they
00:49:59had some absolutely great racing over the weekend. And, you know, that meet, that spring meet is as
00:50:04good as it gets in racing. It's right up there with Saratoga and Del Mara, no doubt about it. And
00:50:09things kicked off on Friday in the Maker's Mark mile. And the big surprise was notable speech,
00:50:15at least the big surprise was to me. I mean, we expect Charlie Appleby's horses, especially one who
00:50:20was a champion last year, that just that they're machines. They just come over here and they run and
00:50:25they run and they run and they run. Not a terrible performance, but a disappointing performance.
00:50:31He was fourth. The race was won by Zulu Kingdom, who gave Chad Brown his 3000th career winner.
00:50:38And speaking to Mr. Flavian Pratt, hats off to him. There's a ton of scratches in the race. And when
00:50:44Wolfie's Dinogos came out, he obviously detected that Zulu Kingdom, who is not a, you know, he has
00:50:50tactical speed, but he wasn't going to really going to the front of all his races, could get out there
00:50:54in
00:50:54front and really have an advantage, Zoe. I thought Pratt rode a very smart race, got Zulu Kingdom
00:51:01first to the wire. And what happened to Notable Speech? What? What happened? Yeah. Go for it.
00:51:09Go ahead. Go ahead, Zoe. No, no. After you. Tell him what happened. Tell him what happened.
00:51:13After you. Notable Speech had no chance. No chance whatsoever the way that race was run.
00:51:20This is a horse that has this devastating turn of foot for the last quarter mile that we saw a
00:51:26good effect in the Breeders' Cup mile. And he was trapped behind horses the entire length of the
00:51:31stretch until inside the 16th pole. And then he comes flying at the end. But I mean, William Buick
00:51:38had it behind horses and typically something's going to open up at some point at the upper in the upper
00:51:43stretch and he can find a path somewhere. But the pace was so moderate that the field was bunched.
00:51:50And Buick was down on the inside trying to find a spot and there was no spot. He was completely
00:51:56hemmed
00:51:56in and had zero chance to win. And you run those horses back again. I have all the respect in
00:52:02the
00:52:02world for Zulu Kingdom. I mean, he's only lost officially twice in his life. And one of those was by
00:52:07DQ. And you give him a nice, easy, uncontested lead. And he's going to be double tough to run down
00:52:15under any circumstances. But even given that, you can give Zulu Kingdom an easy lead the next time
00:52:21they run. But I'll still bet Notable Speech with extreme confidence. Because if he just gets a place
00:52:30to run, in my opinion, in the makers of Mark Mile, he's going to run down everybody. He just couldn't.
00:52:35There was no place to go. Yeah. Poor old Billy Buick looked like a mouse trying to find the cheese
00:52:41there. He's like, is it here? Is it here? Is it here? He was just ducking and diving and had
00:52:46no
00:52:47shot. Listen, Pratt did not really want to be on the lead, but he's got such a sense of timing.
00:52:52He's got such a great clock in his head. When they left there, he got the first quarter in 23
00:52:57and 4.
00:52:58That gives any single other person a chance to make the lead. And they didn't. He's like looking
00:53:03around and be like, screw you guys. I'm just going to go. So 23 and 4, 47 and 3, picked
00:53:09it up
00:53:10incrementally, 1, 11 and 2. And even at the quarter pole, you could kind of see he was like,
00:53:15I know he's coming. You know, he's not going to give one of those, but he's not stupid. He knows
00:53:20he's the horse to beat. So he just punched his ticket. And that little horse, he's not an overly big
00:53:24horse. He's just a cool horse who was given a lead and took it and won like a good thing.
00:53:32Great ride by Pratt. Congratulations to Chad Brown on win 3000, which has come quickly.
00:53:38Started training in 2007. I think he, what did he have? One out of four in 2007.
00:53:44And I looked up his stats since then. He went to 31 winners the next year, 50, 67, 95. And
00:53:53since 2012,
00:53:54he's been double digits all the way. So onward and upward 3000. It seems like that's come around
00:54:00awfully quickly, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And Bill, as far as the makers of Mark Miles concerned,
00:54:06I'll take it one step further. And Chad's not going to like this, but look, all respect in the world
00:54:12Zulu kingdom. He's a super nice horse. And he's a very, you know, he's a leading contender in the
00:54:17mile division in the U S you run this race back again, put all the horses back in the gate,
00:54:23run
00:54:23them back again one more time. I I'll take a notable speech, one stripe exacta, and then put Zulu kingdom
00:54:32third for a trifecta because one stripe also didn't have a very good trip. The Graham motion,
00:54:38South African bred horse. This might've been worse. He came flying at the end on the inside of Zulu
00:54:45kingdom. And he ran a, uh, uh, you know, a race that was, um, worthy of the winner's circle really
00:54:54with a, uh, with a cleaner trip. So we're in a good spot this year, I think in the mile
00:54:59division in the
00:55:00U S especially if, uh, Charlie Appleby keeps bringing back horses like notable speech.
00:55:05Well, my colleague showing zero love, I mean, zero love for Zulu kingdom.
00:55:11Oh, I like him. I like him. He's a nice horse. It's just a really, really tough,
00:55:14tough bunch of horses. All right. So let's move on to the Jenny Wiley, which was run Saturday.
00:55:20Another key scratch in there with lush lips comes out a terrific race on the racetrack,
00:55:25explosive queen and suggest a dead finish in a dead heat. Chad Brown, the trainer of suggest a,
00:55:31so he didn't waste any time getting back into the winner circle for another grade one, uh, a day
00:55:36later, Brendan Walsh, uh, trains explosive queen, uh, Zoe, um, I don't really have whole much to say.
00:55:42I mean, maybe we'll get into this whole controversy about the, uh, dead heat photo, but before we get
00:55:48into that, your thoughts on, on that race. It was a good race. I mean, we lost a couple of
00:55:53main
00:55:53contenders there with lush lips, not going in for Brendan Walsh. You know what they say,
00:55:58why run two when one will do? And that's exactly what happened. Um, expensive queen kind of got a
00:56:06bottled up trip on the inside and Pratt did a great job to thread the needle. I don't know.
00:56:11She was right there and then she kind of went back and then she came up again and then he
00:56:16had to veer
00:56:17course. She gets a clean run. She might win it herself outright. Um, I called the dead heat when they
00:56:23cross the wire. Like this has to be a dead heat. I did not see the picture though.
00:56:27What was the picture bill? All right. So this thing went, I mean, sometimes Twitter can be a little
00:56:33crazy and I thought this was an example of it. Um, they posted the picture of the, um, photo on
00:56:39Twitter afterwards and people were outraged. Um, they claimed that the photo showed that expensive
00:56:45queen won the race. Now here's my take on it. I mean, you can make a case that maybe the
00:56:53nose was
00:56:53one millionth, I mean, one, one thousandth of an inch further across the wire than, um, suggest, uh,
00:57:02to me, that's still a dead heat. I mean, it was just too close to make a judgment call on
00:57:09that.
00:57:10The only thing that I will say about that was that you, I, and I don't know the mechanics of
00:57:16this or
00:57:17what it would cost or what they would need to do, but the, you get these, um, photo finished pictures
00:57:23that are posted and maybe the placing judges see something of a better quality, but it was kind of
00:57:28blurry as they all are. Uh, couldn't they invest in a better technology? So you have a high resolution
00:57:34photo, but I, I thought, and, and, and Randy, I'll obviously get your opinion. I thought the whole
00:57:39thing was much ado about nothing. Oh, oh yeah. Yes. What is it nowadays about all these people
00:57:46wanting to be, wanting to feel aggrieved and wanting to, and wanting to feel victimized in some
00:57:52way? We got, we got a whole society of people now saying they want to, they want to be victims.
00:57:58If you look at that photo finish and you've got a problem with a dead heat, then you've got a
00:58:04problem.
00:58:05Yeah. I mean, come on. That's, that's, that's silly. I agree. You had guys saying, I'll never
00:58:11play this game again. And you know, and, and, and, and saying awful things about Keeneland. Thank you
00:58:17for being someone on the, um, the writers, uh, that are the people that posted in called me the voice
00:58:23of
00:58:23reason. Randy Moss, this week, I give you the voice of reason award for your take on that, uh, photo
00:58:30finish. So anyways, so sometimes the Lexington stakes, well, not really at all. There's not
00:58:36enough points in the Lexington for it to make it really make any kind of difference in the Kentucky
00:58:40Derby, which is the way it should be. It's, it's not a major race, but sometimes now, especially
00:58:45with so few horses coming out of the Derby running in the Preakness, um, it might produce a Preakness
00:58:50horse. Um, and, uh, you're not going to get the winner. Trendsetter is not nominated to the triple
00:58:55crown trainer, Ben Colbrook said a very good meet winning the Lexington, um, and also winning the,
00:59:01uh, Ashland with Percy's bar said, uh, they're not going to supplement and pay the horse that ran
00:59:06second in there. Um, is, uh, uh, the name escapes me. Someone help me here, please. Uh, the hell
00:59:14horse that, that horse, I'm sorry. Yeah. The hell he, the hell he did. I think they say he might
00:59:19go on.
00:59:20Um, the bigger story was Brad Cox who, uh, you know, again, these are, are, are far from the
00:59:25stars of his barn, but confessional remember back in that allowance race and ran against nearly and,
00:59:30and, and, uh, everybody at that time thought he was a huge, uh, Kentucky Derby prospect nearly
00:59:35beat him that day. And he hasn't done much since he was fifth and a zoom zoom who came off
00:59:40a 19 length
00:59:42win in a maiden race at colonial downs got a big figure. He wasn't very good either. He ran six.
00:59:47So I don't think we'll be seeing much from the Lexington horses down the road,
00:59:51but it looks like the hell he is. We'll join what, uh, could be a water downfield in the
00:59:58Preakness Randy. Yeah. I mean, uh, it's a Todd Fincher horse that, uh, that ran a big number
01:00:03at Sunland park and, uh, you know, he's the Todd Pletcher of Sunland park and we've seen Fincher do
01:00:09very well shipping these horses out of town, especially to Keeneland the last few years. And, uh,
01:00:14the horse ran a heck of a race, but I think the bigger story here
01:00:16and you pointed it out early is just, you know, how strong these Keeneland stakes races are.
01:00:23The Lexington stakes is not going to be a big Kentucky Derby prep, obviously maybe the Preakness,
01:00:28but it was a heck of a race. It was a, it was a decent sized field. It was a
01:00:32great betting race.
01:00:33Uh, the winner is, uh, you'll pay a big price. The makers mark mile was unbelievable. It was on a
01:00:39Friday and every, you know, seemingly every day Keeneland has these unbelievable races a week ago.
01:00:46In the Madison stakes. To me, that was the deepest field that's been run this year
01:00:51in any stakes race in the United States. Eclatant's a grade three winner, grand job, grade two.
01:00:58They both, uh, the Eclatant ran a 109 buyer. Every horse in that race, except for Sterling Silver,
01:01:04who, uh, it was a graded stakes winner and Sterling Silver won a grade two and was disqualified out of
01:01:11it. So just a typical example of these races at Keeneland and just, you know, what an unbelievable
01:01:16meet this always is. And especially this year, it's turned out to be.
01:01:21Yeah. And the Cornwall Lexington was a very good betting race and one of the longest shot
01:01:25on the board won. Trendsetter. Let's give him some love. A three-year-old gelding by Modernist
01:01:30purchased right here at OBS. He's won races at five different racetracks. He's well, not five.
01:01:37He's run well at five different racetracks. He's three for eight. And it'll be interesting
01:01:42to see where he shows up. Um, obviously Santanita's on a break. So you've seen a few jocks from California
01:01:48winning races there. JJ Hernandez, Kazushi Kimura got the leg up on this horse for trainer Ben
01:01:55Colebrook. So all in all, the races have been fantastic to watch at Keeneland. You are quite
01:02:00right.
01:02:01And I always tell people, I mean, I have friends of mine that don't really, you know, follow
01:02:05horse racing religiously, uh, as, as most of my friends don't, um, are, are like, you know,
01:02:11okay, where should we go to the races? If you could pick any racetracks in America, where
01:02:16should we go? And I just, of course, I'm an Oakland park guy. I was raised around Oakland
01:02:20park. So I'm always partial to Oakland park, but I tell them, you know, the other than magic,
01:02:24the Holy trilogy, you've got Saratoga, you've got Del Mar and got Keeneland. Keeneland's right
01:02:29up there. In my opinion with Saratoga and Del Mar, I tell you, it's like a country club.
01:02:33You pull up and it's just this gorgeous setting. So it's a quality of racing, but it's also
01:02:38just the ambiance that Keeneland has the old school ambiance. And it's just a wonderful
01:02:44place to go to the races.
01:02:46And another week to go at Keeneland, they got a couple of big stakes races coming up this
01:02:50weekend as well. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to take a break. We're
01:02:53going to hear from the Pennsylvania horse breeders association. Also first TV, we come back,
01:02:58we'll wrap things up and talk about, talk about, we'll be talking about another great
01:03:03race coming up at Oakland park, the Oakland handicapped this Saturday. Stay with us.
01:03:07The TDN writers are brought to you by the Pennsylvania horse breeders association, the
01:03:12PHBA every week on the podcast. We talk about all this money that PHBA gives away $23 million
01:03:19in breeder and owner incentives. Zoe Cadman. And I'm sure a lot of others say that that can't
01:03:25be right. That can't be last year. That's got to be like the last 10 years, but actually
01:03:30you dig down into it. It is correct. That's how much money the PHBA is giving away. Take
01:03:35a look at this year's list of 2025 awards fade out to Pennsylvania's breeders and stallion
01:03:41owners. Warriors reward, almost 900,000. Uptown Charlie Brown stud, 700,000. Wynne Oaks farm,
01:03:52361,000. This is big money. And so on down the list of 321 total breeders. So we'll say
01:03:59it again. If you breed to a Pennsylvania stallion, you're eligible for 40% breeders awards and
01:04:04up to 40% owner bonuses. And you're also eligible of course, for those 2026 Pennsylvania sired
01:04:10and Pennsylvania bred stallion stakes. And over the last 13 years, here we go. The PHBA
01:04:17breeding fund distributed an average of $27.5 million in awards, owner bonuses and restricted
01:04:25race purses annually. Every year, if you'd like more information about the PA bred program,
01:04:32you can visit www.pabred.com or you can call that number that you all know so well by now,
01:04:37610-444-1050 to speak to Brian Sanfratello.
01:04:43The Pennsylvania breeding program is the best program in the country. The stallion awards,
01:04:50the owner bonuses, also the restrictive races and the stakes races for Pennsylvania breeds.
01:04:55Last year, 321 Pennsylvania breeders earned breeders awards. 22 Pennsylvania breeders earned
01:05:03over $100,000. We have the best program in the country. Take advantage of the fantastic program
01:05:10that we have. Learn more at pabred.com. Be a smarter bettor with First TV, the best horses.
01:05:22With thousands of exclusive morning workouts.
01:05:29All at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox.
01:05:34Everything you need to be informed. Be smart. Bet smart. With First TV.
01:05:44The TDN Writer's Room Work of the Week is brought to you by our very own First TV. Now,
01:05:50can Bill Mott and Junior Alvarado do it again?
01:05:53Sue Finley thinks, sir, their hopes are resting simply on Chief Wallaby. Seen working here on the
01:05:59inside, working a tiny half mile in 49 and 3 this weekend with Batten Dan on the outside. Now,
01:06:06they are entering him with blinkers on. He's wearing the blinkers here and he looks like a much more
01:06:12focused individual. Really like that work from Chief Wallaby. He was a TDN Rising star in his January
01:06:18debut at Goldstream Park and was also within a neck of Commandment in the Fountain of Youth.
01:06:25Then, he was third to Commandment and the Puma in the Florida Derby, beaten just half a length.
01:06:30Take a look at that. He looks really good. You might be onto something, Sue Finley.
01:06:34Well, talk about terrific races, the Oakland Handicap. Does it get any better than this?
01:06:38The rematch between Sovereignty, last year's Horse of the Year, and the Kentucky Derby winner,
01:06:42and Journalism, the horse that ran so well against Sovereignty but couldn't get his number last year,
01:06:48he, of course, won the Preakness. White, a Barrio comes back, the horse coming off the Pegasus
01:06:54World Cup Invitational where he ran a solid second. Not a big field, but a very, very strong race.
01:07:01And by the way, Randy, tell your friend Pat Pope, if he doesn't get them to put this back to
01:07:05a grade
01:07:05one race, then somebody at the graded stakes committee has been smoking something or other
01:07:12because, my goodness, this is a grade one race. I'll make it simple. Sovereignty was the best
01:07:17horse last year. Journalism couldn't beat him. I don't see why that would change.
01:07:22White, a Barrio is a very good horse, but he doesn't always show up. And even on his best day,
01:07:29I don't think he's good enough to beat Journalism or Sovereignty. Zoe, what do you think?
01:07:34What a race. It would be nice if all of these ran, all six. Let's hope they don't have any
01:07:41scratches.
01:07:42Obviously, Steve Aspersen has two in here. It's a tough starting point for journalism,
01:07:47to be perfectly honest. It's tough. He does win the draw. He's drawn on the outside of Sovereignty.
01:07:54Sovereignty's best races aren't off the layoff. He didn't win on debut. He just won by a neck
01:07:59with the Fountain of Youth in his 2025 debut. My biggest question would be, who's going to be on the
01:08:07lead? Does Publisher take the lead? Do they let Eric Aspersen just go out there? He gets in with
01:08:15118 pounds as opposed to 123. He's got to go. I mean, Liberal Arts has been on the lead before,
01:08:24but I mean, Aspersen's no dummy. He's going to be like, hey, first start of the year, I've got a
01:08:29horse who's good on the lead or can be close. I'm going. Just go as fast as you can.
01:08:35So it's going to be super interesting.
01:08:37I would be much more confident about the outcome of this race if there were a couple of speed
01:08:41horses in there. There's nobody.
01:08:43Nobody.
01:08:44Nobody. I mean, it actually, I think, might favor Huayda Barrio because Huayda Barrio has more
01:08:52speed, certainly than Sovereignty, and I think more than journalism, although maybe coming off the
01:08:58bench, maybe journalism will show a little bit more speed. But yeah, it's going to be a weird race,
01:09:03I predict. Just because of the complete lack of early speed, not a single horse in the race is
01:09:10a confirmed front runner. And that makes for some very interesting racing.
01:09:15They'll all go to the lead. They'll be going the first quarter in 24 and 4, and they'll be spread
01:09:20across the racetrack.
01:09:23All right. So as we said a couple weeks ago, we've had a lot of fun with this, and we
01:09:26encourage people
01:09:27to contact us and ask us questions, reach out, make comments about the podcast. Best way to do
01:09:34that is watch us on YouTube, and then you can post comments below underneath that. And I'm going to
01:09:40take a couple quick ones, and we'll run through this quickly. And this is from Daniel Morietti,
01:09:43Morietti. And I'll put this to all three of us. Who are some of your favorite horses from the
01:09:50past? Sorry, Bill, no Bookum Dano. Come on, Daniel. I mean, how am I not going to talk about Bookum
01:09:55Dano?
01:09:55But who are very good, but not in the pantheon of the greatest horses. For example, my choice is
01:10:02Tisna. I'll give you one. Wacoit. And before I was known as this Jersey guy, I was a Boston guy,
01:10:09because I went to college there and spent a lot of time there and caught about 300 classes during
01:10:14my college days to go to Suffolk Downs. And you didn't get horses come out of Suffolk Downs too
01:10:20often like Wacoit. He won three grade one races, including the Jockey Club Gold Cup. And one of the
01:10:26great moments in Suffolk Downs history was the 1987 Mass Cap, where he ding-donged it down the stretch
01:10:33with Broadbrush. The great call from the late Jim Hammond, screaming, if you remember,
01:10:39that Broadbrush and Wacoit, Broadbrush and Wacoit. And Wacoit for the home team for trainer Guido
01:10:46Federico. So I'll put Wacoit on my list. Randy, how about you?
01:10:50So you go.
01:10:53Best horse, most favorite horse has to be American Pharaoh. I know that's not quite in the question,
01:10:59just because before he ever ran, I knew he was going to be a superstar. Someone asked me that
01:11:03year early who was going to win the Derby. I'm like, it's American Pharaoh. He's just the most
01:11:07awesome horse I've ever seen work 10 flat on the track at Santa Anita. One 10 for six furlongs with
01:11:13his head bowed. He was amazing. But my absolute favorite horse was a horse I owned a piece of called
01:11:19Kelly Leak. We bought him here with some partners. Mike Mikowski was a trainer. We bought him at OBS.
01:11:26Just the coolest horse. I didn't gallop him too much because he was a little tough,
01:11:30but I used to work him. He was a greatest stakes winning two-year-old. He won the Sunland Derby,
01:11:36beating Mind That Bird. He made us over 800,000. I begged them not to put him in for a
01:11:42claim.
01:11:42That's why I'm the worst owner in the world. We lost him through the claim. I followed him.
01:11:48Maggie Moss wound up with him. She gave him back to me. She was like, I'm going to run him
01:11:52for 10.
01:11:53And she's like, you know what? I'm going to give him to you. So she put him on a van.
01:11:58The first day I got him back, I threw a Western saddle on him and rode him under the 605.
01:12:03He was just the coolest horse. I ran barrels on him. I took him team penning. Just the coolest horse.
01:12:10That's why Thoroughbreds is such an amazing breed. Kelly Leak.
01:12:14Yeah. Kelly Leak. Wow. My favorite horse of all time was a horse from my childhood,
01:12:19as most people that follow horse racing, you know, lifelong love affair with it.
01:12:24It's usually something early, early, early. Maybe the first horse you bet on or something like that.
01:12:29But there's an old horse called Barbizon Streak that was my all-time favorite horse.
01:12:34He still, I think he still shares the track record.
01:12:38I think the stakes record for the Churchill Down Stakes, the seven-eighths of a mile on Derby Day.
01:12:44But yeah, he was a really, really fast horse. Set the pace in Cannon Arrow II's Kentucky Derby for a
01:12:50while.
01:12:51But to me, the most underrated horse is the way I like to look at this.
01:12:56I've got too many favorite horses just to pick out one favorite horse.
01:12:59But the most underrated horse that's been around, you know, since I've really been super involved in the media covering
01:13:07horse racing was Candy Ride.
01:13:11This is a horse that not only was unbelievable on the racetrack, but he's been fantastic and also underrated in
01:13:17the stallion bar.
01:13:19He starts off his career three for three in Argentina.
01:13:23He wins by 12 lengths. He wins by eight lengths. He wins by eight lengths.
01:13:26And then Sid, Janie Craig and her husband Sid buy him and bring him to the United States and give
01:13:31him to Ron McAnally.
01:13:32And right off the bat, he wins the stakes race, an allowance race, actually.
01:13:37Then they run him on the grass, and he's not a grass horse, and he wins the American Handicap and
01:13:42beats a pretty good horse named Special Ring.
01:13:44But then they run him in the Pacific Classic.
01:13:46And Medaglia D'Oro ships in for Bobby Frankel from the East Coast, and Jerry Bailey rides him.
01:13:55And Julie Krohn was on Candy Ride that day.
01:14:01And Jerry tells me that Medaglia D'Oro fired big.
01:14:06He ran huge. He ran one of the best races of his career.
01:14:09And Jerry couldn't believe it that Candy Ride leaves him behind.
01:14:13Candy Ride wins the Pacific Classic by three and a quarter lengths, gets a buyer's speed figure of 123, and
01:14:21then is injured.
01:14:23And you never see him again until you see offspring of Candy Ride, who light it up periodically around the
01:14:29country.
01:14:30So to me, that's the most underrated horse of the last 25 years or so in American horse racing.
01:14:37All right. So Francis Russo, 2775, and I think Francis Russo, 2775, is making a good point because he's getting
01:14:46a little fed up with this thing.
01:14:47He's saying, Randy, get Zoe her wine before you owe her a case.
01:14:52Now, I realize that sometimes shipping wine across the country is not easy.
01:14:57You guys don't necessarily show up at the same racetracks at the same time.
01:15:02Zoe lives in Southern California.
01:15:03You live in Minnesota.
01:15:04I've taken the effort to go online and I Googled or AI'd how can you ship wine from Minneapolis to
01:15:13Los Angeles?
01:15:15And the answer is Total Wine.
01:15:18Go to TotalWine.com because they have outlets in both Minneapolis and Los Angeles.
01:15:25They will do it for you.
01:15:27Moss, you're out of excuses.
01:15:29Send Zoe her goddamn wine.
01:15:31Hey, I'll drink it.
01:15:34I'll drink it while we do the podcast.
01:15:36How about that?
01:15:37I keep holding out hope that I'll get even, but Zoe's too good at picking out these little spots and
01:15:43sensing my weaknesses and luring me into her trap.
01:15:48So, yeah.
01:15:49Anyway, we'll see.
01:15:51We'll see.
01:15:52Uh-oh.
01:15:52See that, Zoe?
01:15:53We'll see.
01:15:54No guarantees.
01:15:55Like, you know, we'll see.
01:15:58West Point Thoroughbreds has been active this week at the OBS Spring Sale of Two-Year-Olds in Training, as
01:16:03always.
01:16:03And they're looking to follow up on a 2025 haul that brought them graded stakes winners, Counting Stars and Ewing,
01:16:10as well as stakes winners, She's Country and Grade One Placed.
01:16:15Curtain call.
01:16:16Counting Stars, of course, as we have mentioned, is one of the leading contenders now for the Kentucky Oaks, which
01:16:22this year will be in prime time on Kentucky Derby Eve on NBC.
01:16:27Counting Stars turned in a major work on Sunday ahead of the Oaks for her Hall of Fame trainer, Mark
01:16:33Cassie.
01:16:57West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:17:01Visit westpointtb.com.
01:17:08Well, on that note, let's wrap up this week's show.
01:17:11I want to thank our Gainsway Guests of the Week, Everett Dobson from the Jockey Club.
01:17:14I want to thank my co-hosts, Zoe Cadman and Randy Moss.
01:17:18I also want to thank the people who work behind the scenes to make the show look so good every
01:17:22week.
01:17:22That's the team of Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:17:27Enjoy another good weekend of racing coming up, and we'll see you next week.
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