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00:00hello and welcome to episode two of the traitors uncloaked this is your official visualized
00:05companion podcast with me ed gamble and before i go any further there are so many spoilers in
00:10this episode that i lost count so make sure you've watched episode two of the traitors on bbc iplayer
00:16before you watch this so what's coming up we'll take a deep dive into the secret traitor what are
00:22the clues who are the main suspects judy and netty join us to reflect on their time in the castle
00:28plus traitor hunter joe marler and faithful tom and alex from series one are here to talk secret
00:34traitors and bubbling suspicions welcome welcome to all of you alex tom joe hello hello joe
00:45hello joe thanks for having us back of course you're most welcome we're very excited to have you here
00:49we've got to talk about the secret traitor in this series this is mega it's huge oh it's so cool
00:56few levels to the game now i feel like i'm back in the game yeah and now i've just started
01:01making
01:01notes i saw that now because of this secret traitor yeah i can play i can actually play rather than
01:08just
01:08watch it and just yeah i can actually play now so i'm really excited but also really bemused by it
01:15all
01:15yeah it's definitely it's perplexing for sure i mean we we do have some clues obviously and us watching
01:21at home we do get more clues than they do we've got the shortlists for a start because we know
01:25anyone who's been put on the shortlist for murder is not the secret traitor um so so far we know
01:31that
01:31james ben reese and maz are faithful can i just corroborate that with my yeah open your notes
01:39i've been trying to read his notes because he's clearly good at finding yeah let joe consult his
01:43very small book for such a big man uh so we've got james ben reese and maz we know they're
01:51faithful
01:51faithful hundies hundies they're hundies i actually in in my notes um wrote down that maz
01:59uh could be the secret traitor even though he he can't actually yeah yeah that's only because he
02:06had red trainers on oh i love that we're looking at hair and clothes could be sam because he's got
02:12the same amount of letters as red in his name is factually true you have a reputation for being a
02:21really good traitor hunter yeah i feel like some of this stuff hot luck is maybe a little bit
02:27spurious maybe do you uh well maybe the sam red thing obviously our shortlist to murder in this
02:33episode is ben reese and maz does this shortlist tell us anything joe about who the secret traitor
02:38might be obviously they seem to think it's a woman based on the fact that it's yeah i've been
02:42inclined to go it's feminine like this is there's a lot of male heavy shortlist on the murder
02:48i mean my speculation is that it could be amanda she was an ex-police detective yeah
02:53if she is a faithful in my opinion i think she's not playing a very good game okay because she's
02:57putting herself out there too much that the other traitors would want to murder her yeah but if she is
03:02a secret traitor then maybe she's actually playing a really good game because she's putting
03:06herself out there so much that no one would think that she's the traitor so we do have another
03:10pretty big clue i think let's have a look at the handwriting on the murder shortlist from the
03:15previous episode there it is we can obviously look at the handwriting and perhaps compare that to some
03:21votes that have been on the chalkboards at the round table it's quite small and neat handwriting yeah
03:26i think it's really quite feminine yeah and in my notebook i made that jade fiona and roxy
03:34had quite similar writing so what about you tom and alex what does that handwriting tell you
03:39and remember there's a potential that the secret traitor could be disguising their handwriting
03:44at the round table or indeed when they're writing the shortlist i would definitely be
03:48disguising my handwriting for sure it's quite old-fashioned writing i don't think anyone really
03:53writes like that anymore like you look at the zed it's very i mean i haven't seen a zed like
03:57that
03:57in a very very long time yeah i like the curve it's really good it's really good writing so are
04:03you thinking older then i i would lean towards someone maybe a bit more mature yeah yeah who do
04:08we think it definitely isn't who who are your hundis joe i want to say faraz okay i want him
04:14to be a
04:14hundi yeah because he just seems he just seems like oh i'm having a good time yeah yeah um and
04:20that
04:20would be a mega twist if he's not but yeah i'm gonna stick with it faraz is a hundi faraz
04:25is a
04:26hundi tom i think sam okay i think that he was a very loud and i was very loud and
04:32i was not a
04:33traitor i think it'd be crazy to be loud and traitory i if it is sam he's playing a very
04:40risky
04:41i must say huge a hugely risky game yeah because he's a he's a real voice at the round table
04:46strong
04:46he's going around he's sowing seeds no matter what he says he was sowing seeds about judy i think
04:51and if you're the secret traitor you've got no heat on you yeah just be quiet sit back relax enjoy
04:56the
04:56game what about you alex i also think sam is a hundi because of he did make a bit of
05:01a fool of
05:01himself at the round table yeah it was a lot and if you were a secret traitor and you've got
05:07that power
05:07you would have zero need to do any of that yeah and if he was then it was a bit
05:11of a bit foolish
05:12if you guys were the secret traitor how do you think you would have played it what do you think
05:17joe because i have no experience of being a traitor yeah snap i'd go berserk i'd just start
05:26planting seeds and being like right it's rachel yeah why i just know i just reckon i just say it
05:33all to get them all out early doors and then see what happens but before i got that i'd i'd
05:38get a
05:39little bit closer to hugo because he's quite a character yeah yeah and i'd like have a little
05:43bit of fun with him yeah maybe the odd wink yeah and then he's gone so you'd give you'd give
05:49yourself
05:49away immediately as the secret traitor by like winking yeah yeah and finally how do we think the
05:55traitors are doing so far this is the traitors that we know the identity of joe what do you reckon
06:00uh i think rachel's probably the one that's thinking more about how to strategize with the
06:07game and that lot hugo's being a bit more of the jolly friendly yeah i'm a faithful let's have a
06:13good laugh together and steven well he's just immaculate yeah like can we talk about how incredible
06:19he looks yes he's so cool that blue jacket in the first episode he looks great but it's so nice
06:26to
06:26see them under as much pressure as the faithful yeah because they're they're all scrambling a
06:31little bit yeah yeah they're doing all right yeah i i'm i'm enjoying them as a as a crew i
06:37think
06:37they've been very very well selected and like you say you've got the immaculate steven you've got the
06:42savvy rachel and then hugo is like from a dickens book so we had our first round table of the
06:50series
06:50and after coming under a lot of suspicion faithful judy was voted out i'd just like to say you've been
06:57absolutely amazing i've had an absolute blast and i'm just me
07:08i am
07:15the faithful
07:22very sad to lose judy this early yeah quite a character and clearly a lovely person as well
07:28um but obviously the secret relationship she is roxy's mum does does the secret relationship
07:33help in there i mean i'm obviously going to ask you to no i'm gonna jump straight in no i
07:39mean we i
07:40shouted about it and we died and then yeah obviously you keep it you can't we've not seen
07:45a couple do well yet it's incredibly hard when you're in there as a pair what do you think would
07:48have happened had you not shouted about it oh we've been rich right now we'd be on holiday
07:53great time no i i think having a secret relationship just adds to the stress yeah because you've not
08:01only got yourself to worry about you're then worrying about that other person which presumably you
08:05you care about that person because you wouldn't have brought them in with you but um like the whole
08:09time that you were in there with me i was thinking oh god is he going to make it in
08:12the next day like
08:13is he making a fool of himself what the hell is he wearing today honestly she would do little lines
08:17like oh nice shirt and in my head oh you bought it for me very good very good like that
08:21right it's
08:22almost time to invite our banished and murdered players into the studio but before i chat to them
08:27here's the moment they both found out who the traitors are shortly after leaving the game
08:38the fact that i'm seeing you here now i feel like i probably did play a part in that
08:47and i am sorry for that that's fine it's killing me because i've either got regret in my heart for
08:53putting your name out there or i'm going to be really excited what are you what were you well to
09:02be honest i'm
09:07a faithful i'm so sorry i'm so sorry it's okay i feel like that's on me no and i'm sorry
09:17we're in a game
09:17who are you all definite traitors i think one could be roxy oh why because she's quite bubbly
09:26and out there and she's too much running around everybody okay and lively so yeah roxy's one of
09:33them two is also steven oh because steven is i mean he's loving he's very caring you can see and
09:42he
09:42always gives you a hug make sure you're all right but you see for me i just think it doesn't
09:48seem
09:48sincere when he gives me a hug and things like that okay and the third one would be sam oh
09:56because
09:57half the time he spends smiling and very quiet keeps himself in the background okay trying to be mr
10:04smooth so yeah i think it's sam okay who do you think the traitors are netty well like i do
10:13think
10:13you are a traitor i can't lie okay but then having time to reflect yeah and you can tell me
10:18what you
10:19think about this okay rachel well no that's not uh i i don't think that with rachel because she
10:27tried to out ross she never voted for me she voted for ross okay so she could have jumped on
10:34the
10:34bandwagon yeah she didn't right she'll find out let's go let's do it okay oh my god oh god i
10:40feel
10:40a bit sick i can see who decided to kill me right right okay oh right first traitor name
10:52is hugo is hugo no way hugo jesus he's using his barrister skills very well before i got through
11:02the round table i was gonna pick hugo what made you not sam his whisperings yeah right ready for the
11:09next one god rachel no no i'm i'm glad at least i got one right oh she's playing a good
11:29game
11:30that is very good okay ready for the next one oh you were right who steven i told you i
11:45told you
11:46if we'd actually put our heads together we would have had like two of the three i knew that there
11:52was something there i knew i'm hoping people have got eyes on him on both of them i tell you
11:59what i'm
11:59not being funny but they're all playing a very good game yeah yeah just a minute netty there's
12:05another one isn't there there is what is that one should we find out i don't fuck a tech anymore
12:12go on well i'm kind of loving this yes i am as well okay let's go
12:21oh see i was thinking about this there's a secret relationship no
12:45i love that
12:53so my daughter i'm thinking go roxy go i love that oh you must be so proud i'm so proud
13:00of her
13:02and judy and netty are with us now
13:07welcome to uncloaks we're obviously very sad to see you go so early but we're glad we get to chat
13:13with you now yeah first things first judy in that tape you said that you thought your own
13:18daughter was a traitor is that something you genuinely think or were you just were you just
13:23keeping up the pretense as long as you possibly could to be fair we did a mission together and
13:28she gave me a look and i thought oh she must be a trade she must be saving me and
13:33that's what i
13:33thought obviously not well she was definitely trying to save you she was definitely trying yeah
13:39she was but was that it was that a traitorous thing we don't know yet but potentially but i
13:43love that you allowed yourself to suspect your own daughter i mean we've been discussing it already but
13:49we thought as soon as you went in there roxy was basically treating you openly like you were her
13:54mum anyway we saw her going the problem is judy you're a very loud lady yes and that a bit
14:00forward
14:00for a stranger uh neti your reaction to finding out um that uh that judy is roxy's mum was
14:08absolutely priceless yeah talk us through that reaction so i of the evening that i did have
14:14i was sort of putting all these sort of little links together she'd obviously said on the train
14:19she was adopted um so i took that on board but i'm going down the route of harriet you know
14:26fiona
14:26anyone else didn't look at this one here yeah so that yeah that did throw me slightly it must be
14:32nice to see roxy defend you so much though go on roxy i know what my daughter's like she's very
14:39uh
14:40she's very out there and if she's got some of being a bonnet she will grab onto it and run
14:45with it
14:45yeah i knew she was sort of trying to stick up for me you've only just seen her reaction after
14:50you left
14:50yeah the round table she was she was pretty cross with everyone oh yeah that's roxy to a t
14:57she looks like she's on a bit of a revenge mission oh she will be oh she will be i
15:01mean for me
15:02obviously i i came out and i just thought go and shine go and be the roxy i know and
15:07love did you
15:08at any moment plan to reveal your relationship no keep it secret to the end oh we had a full
15:13mission
15:13and everything oh we don't know each other and she just kept gravitating to me let's talk about your
15:18predictions in that tape about who the traitors were netty what made you suspicious of rachel i didn't
15:24get much time to sort of talk with her in the castle but do you remember on the the night
15:29that
15:29i was murdered uh she was in the kitchen she was very good at kind of just listening to people
15:34she
15:34didn't say too much i was going at it with ross and saying you know all these sorts of things
15:40just
15:40watch out and you know she's just over there in the corner quietly soaking it all in yeah so i
15:46think
15:46she maybe used that against me joe what did we think of their traitors predictions because there
15:50were two out of three between the two of them not bad well it's spot on isn't it yeah it's
15:55just a
15:56shame that everyone else wanted to get rid of you you stayed in there longer you'd have hunted them
16:01down i think we would have had them i think we'd have been on it but maybe we were the
16:05threat that
16:06they didn't want in there a bit scared of us uh-huh two strong ladies i think so uh-huh
16:10oh you're now
16:11friends now she's forgiving me i think it's fair to say there were some prior relationships in there
16:18for both of you actually but some more unexpected than others i know how it looks i'll be really
16:26honest and say when i initially come out the cars i was obviously saying hello to everybody and i'd
16:31initially honestly just planned to go recognize her and not say anything
16:37but one thing i want to assure you i had genuinely no idea i'm still sitting on the fence i
16:44don't
16:44necessarily know whether you're traitors or not but the connection for me is just a little bit like
16:50it's a huge coincidence yeah yeah that's fair it's just got to be questioned but that's just me being
16:55honest with you
16:59judy that was judy that was like the popcorn meme of just you sitting back with just enjoying it all
17:05unfold um neti talk us through how you felt when you saw russ when you arrived at the castle i
17:10mean
17:11my mind was blown and i think you saw from my reaction yeah it was just sheer what is this
17:17to the point where i mounted him in excitement wow i was not expecting it at all in my mind's
17:25eye
17:25i've come to this castle i'm not going to know anyone and then this big beast of a man that
17:31you
17:31know has got quite a presence i'm like i know you did you recognize him straight away yes albeit i
17:36couldn't remember his name in the first second because it has been such a long time since we saw each
17:42other yeah but you know you're not going to forget that face and body yeah not if that sounds wrong
17:50yeah it sounds exactly how it's a present it's a present how do you know each other uh just years
17:55and years ago we had a mutual friend i played basketball um and he's obviously into fitness
18:00and it was just sort of uh a connection through that um so southeast but how what a mad coincidence
18:07and i just i couldn't stop my brain ticking over like how i just didn't understand yeah was it planned
18:12did they know were you were you secretly gutted though i know you had that moment where you
18:17mounted him and you're like great to see you great to see you right but then we like oh maybe
18:26this is
18:26going to work against me no see i'm not as smart as like he obviously said he didn't plan to
18:30he and he
18:31didn't know i was going to be there either it was genuine shock for both of us but in my
18:37i'm an
18:37excitable puppy so i hadn't sort of thought a few steps ahead in terms of okay i can't play into
18:43this because clearly i've just reacted well you can see that when you see each other that he has
18:47that split second of like should i say should i not and by that point i didn't give him a
18:52chance
18:52yeah you're absolutely honest you have no chance in this what would have happened if you just
18:57he turned around and went i've no idea who are you why why why are you this is weird did
19:03you push me
19:04away by the head judy did you suspect anything of their relationship how did you feel when you
19:09found out that they knew each other in the past well the first thing you think oh why are they
19:13together are they a couple yeah of course you're gonna go down that road i mean imagine imagine if they
19:18were a secret couple and and then netty blew it that early i said god i've bloody mounted him
19:26now there's nothing i can do but then if you like if you had thought that knowing that you and
19:32roxy
19:33had your secret relationship would you have thought and you didn't obviously think any different of it
19:38obviously everyone like oh oh oh so obviously it got people talking so there's something else to talk
19:42about that's a really good point that very much takes the heat off you and roxy initially that
19:46they're all talking about that relationship rather than any potential other ones who made
19:51the decision to go on the show judy was it you or roxy me uh roxy got me into the
19:55game obviously
19:56to to watch it and she says a great thing on you need to watch this moment whatever uh and
20:02then when
20:02it finished i thought i could do that i could do that i was going on my own and i
20:07thought you know
20:07what i rocks she lives in amsterdam she's recruitment officer and i adopted her why not so you only
20:14adopted her after you'd applied for trade no i need a daughter to go on trade so of course the
20:26huge thing in this series right at the top of the series the secret traitor are there any inklings
20:32from you guys as to who the secret traitor could be let's start with you netty it baffled the hell
20:38out
20:38of me because just no expectation obviously you know that something's going to be different so
20:43even when we're on the train we're like something's gonna happen and it was all a bit too easy so
20:47the
20:48this bombshell was fabulous i love it i want to think of fiona as i watch her and thinking about
20:54how she was in the castle like very bubbly and and sort of silly but then watching her when she's
21:01in
21:01sort of the private chats she just had this like air of calm and cool about her so i'm think
21:07she's
21:08got my eye on her what about you judy i think jade jade could be a good shout because she's
21:14she's
21:14being a little bit quiet but she's she's still involved in the game yeah definitely hold her own
21:19yeah pick up on the handwriting around the round table i think judy had enough to deal with
21:25judy no never oh i'm going down what's it like in that moment when you're at the round table and
21:30you can feel a lot of suspicion coming at you how does that feel well obviously i was warm because
21:35roxy had said judy your name's been out there a lot i thought oh is it now and obviously there's
21:41a
21:41little bit what you see me talk to somebody in the kitchen yes so i was ready to bring it
21:47on
21:48with your head held high absolutely i love that moment where you'd got wind of who's been
21:53he's been saying my name yeah and then it was like oh sam's been saying a lot right where is
21:58he yeah where is he there's no there's no moment there's no moment to be like i wonder what's going
22:03to happen let's let's collect ourselves and see what's going to happen it is where is he find him
22:08now are you avoiding me today sam no aren't you why why do you say that i've not spoke to
22:16you much
22:16today i thought you were you were carrying me on the throne no i think you're avoiding me for some
22:21reason but i'm ready for you what made you go right i'm just going to go confront him straight
22:25away because that's what kind of person i am i can't have anything to fester i have to confront
22:31it say it get it off my chest was it awkward the fact that you were sat next to each
22:35other at the
22:36round table yeah that was so good i've ever seen someone so loud go so quiet so quickly and then
22:40have
22:41to sit next to that person because he's playing he's playing a completely different game of traitors to
22:45the the one you were playing because he was not expecting anyone to call him out on it he was
22:50like well that'll come up at the round table but this game's all about subterfuge it's about being
22:54quiet it's about not revealing your true intentions next thing you know kitchen door flies off the floor
22:59in comes judy you've been avoiding me today
23:02i can't believe i said that oh it's great it's so good so good tom and alex uh how how
23:10do you think
23:10roxy should play the game now that judy's out do you think keep the relationship absolutely quiet
23:15put it in the bin like it never existed yeah there's there's literally zero reason or benefits
23:21of her to mention it i think she should get the revenge mission done yes yeah just against sam
23:27get sam gone and then just forget about it yeah like withdraw just so that you still love her and
23:33she probably will you don't want your mum on holiday with you for the whole thing anyway do you
23:39i feel like you wouldn't cramp her style i feel like i'm not that kind of yeah we've got a
23:43great
23:44relationship and she and she can hold her own yeah i don't need to hold her hand i love the
23:48way how
23:48much you defended yourself i would love to send you if someone was accusing roxy in front of you
23:52yeah how would that have gone down there's not enough words before we go joe i think we have to
24:00talk about your trainers because they're absolutely incredible thanks yours are nice too thank you so
24:04much but mine aren't sort of custom uh custom traders trainers yes the celebrity trainers yeah
24:09yeah i got these done they're amazing yeah i did send it to the rest of the cast to get
24:16their
24:16thoughts and they were fucking livid they were livid they were like what have you done like to our
24:24faces i was like well it was based around the the laser mission that we had yes where the you
24:32know heads
24:32that we had made of us yeah we're slightly suspect as well but um they're really cool they're nice and
24:39you know this is the opportunity to wear them yeah they're perfect i love them thank you the chat
24:44continues over on bbc sounds where joe tom alex netty and judy will be sticking around to do a
24:49tactical deep dive on the series so far and we'll also be discussing post traitor's life it's all in
24:54your bonus episode of uncloats which you can listen to right now it's quite simple really all you need
24:59to do is scan the qr code on the screen or search for us on your bbc sounds app we'll
25:04be back tomorrow
25:05night where i'll be joined by celebrity traitor cat burns and faithful turn traitor from series three
25:10charlotte for more fun and treachery on bbc one a huge thanks to joe tom alex judy and netty for
25:16joining me i'm ed gamble stay faithful
25:24yes uncloaked is back here on bbc one tomorrow night at nine a brand new series on the way amanda
25:30and alan are rolling up their sleeves with a new renovation let's get ourselves some winter sun
25:35their greek job is next
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