- 2 days ago
“Out of sight?” EU lawmakers fight over migrant return hubs on The Ring
In this new edition of The Ring, broadcast from the European Parliament in Brussels, MEPs Lena Düpont (EPP) and Juan Fernando López Aguilar (S&D) debate whether return hubs will speed up the return of irregular migrants.
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2026/04/08/out-of-sight-eu-lawmakers-fight-over-migrant-return-hubs-on-the-ring
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In this new edition of The Ring, broadcast from the European Parliament in Brussels, MEPs Lena Düpont (EPP) and Juan Fernando López Aguilar (S&D) debate whether return hubs will speed up the return of irregular migrants.
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2026/04/08/out-of-sight-eu-lawmakers-fight-over-migrant-return-hubs-on-the-ring
Subscribe to our channel. Euronews is available on Dailymotion in 12 languages
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00:07Hello there and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show, broadcasting here from the
00:13European Parliament in Brussels. On The Ring, elected members of the European Parliament go
00:19face-to-face on some of the biggest issues facing the European Union. Today we're focusing on
00:25migration, with new rules that allow deportation centers to be set up outside EU borders. Luis
00:31Albertos has more. On the 26th of March, the European Parliament adopted a reform enabling
00:39member states to set up migration return hubs in third countries for rejected asylum seekers.
00:46The measure marks a significant hardening of EU migration policy, allowing deportations to
00:52external facilities negotiated with partner states. The vote unfolded against escalating turmoil in the
00:58Middle East that has led to massive displacement in the region. In Lebanon alone, over one million
01:04people have been forced to flee their homes, according to the UN's International Organization for Migration.
01:11Although large-scale onward migration to Europe remains unlikely, the EU is moving towards
01:16stricter migration policies. In this context, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz faced widespread backlash
01:23after stating that over the longer term of the next three years, 80% of the Syrians currently in Germany
01:29should return to their homeland. What does the European Parliament's rightward shift on migration mean for
01:37the future of asylum? And can the EU balance stricter migration policies with growing human rights concerns?
01:47They're the questions that we have for our contenders. Let's meet them.
01:52Lena Dupont, a German MEP from the Central-Right European People's Party. She serves on the Committee on Civil Liberties,
01:59Justice and Home Affairs.
02:01Regarding returns in the third country concept, she said,
02:04The EU must speed up the rejection of clearly unfounded asylum applications. By applying the safe third country concept
02:11and an EU list of safe countries of origin, asylum procedures become faster and more efficient while protecting those in
02:18real need.
02:19Juan Fernando López Aguilar, a Spanish MEP from the Socialists and Democrats Group.
02:24He serves in the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs and is one of the European Parliament's
02:29most influential figures on migration and asylum policy. Before being an MEP, he served as Spain's Minister of Justice.
02:37Migration is a fact. It is not a threat. And walls are not the answer, said López Aguilar, highlighting the
02:44need to manage migration while respecting human rights.
02:48Juan Fernando López Aguilar and Lena Dupont, welcome to The Ring.
02:53The aim here is to give our viewers a glimpse of your debates inside the European Parliament, so you should
02:58feel right at home.
02:59So look, let's pick up on that vote. On these return hubs, you voted in favour. You say it's the
03:04missing piece of the puzzle. Why?
03:06Well, because it is the missing piece of the puzzle. We invested quite heavily in the previous term in the
03:12so-called asylum and migration policy pact,
03:14so the new Pact on Asylum and Migration. And that was always the missing part to that pact. It has
03:19been part of it before.
03:21It was taken out for political reasons because we were not able to find an agreement.
03:25And in this term, we really need to make sure that this last missing piece of the pact is indeed
03:31implemented.
03:32But on the other hand, we've seen bodies like the Council of Europe warning that these hubs could create human
03:37rights black holes.
03:39Juan Fernando, what is your view here?
03:40Of course, we are concerned. Return hubs are not the answer, particularly when they are outside the borders of the
03:48European Union.
03:49Return hubs have no guarantees of respect to fundamental rights. They are not consistent with EU law.
03:53They are not consistent with the architecture we put in place when we adopted the Migration and Asylum Pact.
03:58And of course, they give the chance to member states to, for an economic compensation to some kind of a
04:05ruler outside the European Union, keep migrants out of our sight.
04:10And that's not the idea.
04:11Lena, how do you address these concerns?
04:14Well, first of all, your concerns were not just basically neglected or ignored.
04:18There have been part of the discussions. You have been and your group have been on the table as well.
04:22But you decided to leave. You also did not support the compromise, for example, from the liberal rapporteur.
04:29And that was also not only about return stocks. Indeed, return hubs are in there. But still in the Parliament's
04:35mandate, we have the article on the fundamental rights, which are the basic assumption for the whole concept as such.
04:42We are speaking about security cases. We are speaking about really bringing the resources of the member states together with
04:48that of the European Union to make sure that afterwards more than one in five returnees actually is returned, which
04:55is the current case.
04:56But how can you be sure there will be oversight?
04:58On the return hubs and such, it's always based on agreements and arrangements, which are bilateral or trilateral, multilateral.
05:05But do you really deep down trust these arrangements? Will it not be more kind of out of sight, out
05:10of mind?
05:10Well, if you look at the debate as such on return hubs, for example, when you're also debating with international
05:16organizations, they're also not saying it's not feasible.
05:19They're saying under certain conditions, it is workable. And it stems from the fact that we know that most of
05:24the people actually do want to return to their region, to their country, if it's possible.
05:30But if it's not possible and there are other opportunities in the vicinity of their home region, it should be
05:35feasible actually to also return people to there.
05:37But you fear people could be left in legal limbo.
05:40Of course. Let's make it clear. We socialists, we try to be part of the equation, but we're left aside.
05:48And the EPP preferred to join a majority with the far right groups of the European Parliament, which are three
05:55far right groups, and they were the ones to adopt this instrument.
05:59Of course, we understand that member states are concerned about returns, but return hubs, absolutely not, because they are externalizing
06:09the management of the whole issue.
06:11Besides, there are no guarantees to protect fundamental rights when they're outside the European Union, because those third states are
06:19not bound by EU law, are not bound by fundamental rights considerations.
06:23Besides, they're extending the time frame. There were 18 months, but now they are up to two years out of
06:31the...
06:32You're nodding your head in this agreement here, but Juan Fernando López, have a point. In the past, you worked
06:37a lot very closely with the socialists in this European Parliament, but now you're working much closer with the far
06:44right.
06:44Well, let me do... probably get two things straight here. A, this question about the detention is not connected to
06:50return hubs. It's a different part of the legislation that we were discussing upon.
06:55And for security cases, I do think that there are credible reasons and credible examples in all member states why
07:02a prolonged detention sometimes can be not only necessary, but needed.
07:06Second thing is, we have been proposing, and you speak about the concerns of the member states. The mandate we
07:13put forward for a vote is based on the council's position, on the commission proposal, where we thought that we
07:19needed to protect specifically the European angle of that proposal, and it's based on papers that the EPP had produced
07:26for a very long time.
07:28So known positions of ours, if we are not allowed to put that forward to a vote, because someone else
07:34might jump on it, then actually we do have a bit of a difficult political discussion.
07:39And I very much respect the position of the SND here. I know that it also has been a tough
07:44negotiations for them, but they were the ones deciding to leave the table. It was not us.
07:48We did our best, as we did, to be part of the majority to adopt the Migration and Asylum Pact.
07:55But the thing is that ever since this mandate started, there's been a new majority, the EPP leaning with three
08:02far-right political groups, and they have been the ones to somehow legalize the so-called Meloni practice with Albania.
08:10But it's not only Albania. It can be whatever, third country, maybe in Africa. Why should a third country ruler
08:17accept that kind of a deal from a member state?
08:20Only because of economic compensation? Is that enough to protect the fundamental rights involved, to protect the minors, to protect
08:27the economic component minors, fundamental rights involved?
08:29Are there any legal considerations which are actually considered with the architecture that we finally adopted? No, the answer is
08:36not.
08:37Are there? In your view, are there?
08:37Of course, we didn't have best to meet our concerns, but they did not.
08:41All the models are based on a contractual, on a treaty basis. And that, of course, allows the European Union,
08:49the member states on their bilateral or multilateral level to really follow up.
08:54We have the attention and actually also, if needed, and I think that this is something that should be taken
08:59into consideration, also the support by the international organizations.
09:03So there will be a lot of emphasis. And describe a return hub to our viewers. How would it look
09:07like?
09:07Well, it depends on how the member states actually design it now, together with the commission as part of the,
09:12let's say, integral approach also to our third country corporation.
09:15And again, we're investing quite heavily in third countries, not only when it comes to border management and asylum capacities,
09:22but, for example, when it comes to economic prosperity, when it comes to fundamental rights and so on and so
09:27forth.
09:27Does that not reassure you that the commission and the member states together will design how these hubs should look?
09:31Not enough. Of course, we are aware that as to the so-called non-eligible people to stay, they are
09:39human beings. And they made it irregularly, never illegally.
09:45We object to that kind of a lexicology because they were not given the chance to make it regular.
09:50There have been no legal pathways and that's been the very one demand of the S&D group right from
09:55the outset.
09:56Legal pathways should be open. Humanitarian corridors, humanitarian visas, legal pathways so that they don't have to risk their lives
10:03to make it irregularly to the European Union.
10:06Once they are here, of course, you have to tell the difference between those who are entitled to some kind
10:13of human rights consideration,
10:14particularly in common minors and women with minors and families in special conditions so that they are given the proper
10:24treatment.
10:25But as to putting them out of our sight and making a deal with some third country ruler so that
10:32they can be somehow piled up for indefinite period of time in some return hubs with no fundamental rights and
10:41with no binding legal considerations as to EU law.
10:45That's absolutely against the mandate of the European Union to respect international law, which includes humanitarian law, which includes human
10:53rights as a first condition of EU external action.
10:58And the European Union, of course, fancies itself as a cheerleader of fundamental rights.
11:03Let me stop you there as we are just getting warmed up here.
11:10Now it is time for our viewers to get a real flavour of the European Parliament's chamber where MEPs ask
11:15questions directly to each other and sometimes it gets heated.
11:18So I would like to start with ladies first.
11:20Lena Dupont, you can address your very first question to Juan López Aguilar.
11:24Yes, for example, how do you actually get that together that if Spain is going on such a huge regularisation
11:30programme that it will have repercussions for the rest of the European Union?
11:35And then at the same time say we're looking for European solutions here.
11:38First of all, what Spain has done is not unprecedented.
11:41Many member states have resorted to regularisation.
11:43And have been criticised for that.
11:44And governments of different political colours have also resorted to regularisation.
11:47And have been criticised for that.
11:49And it's a positive approach.
11:50Rightly so.
11:50Everyone, everyone is agreeing on that Spain is now the locomotive, the number one locomotive when it comes to economic
11:59growth and job creation precisely because it has an alternative positive view to migration as opposed to the negative approach,
12:10which is the predominant, which is the prevailing site to migration and contaminates not only migrants, but also asylum seekers.
12:17So the thing is that when you have a positive approach to migration, when you give the chance to those
12:22who are already staying on Spanish soil and Spanish territory and you give the chance to regularise, you're enhancing not
12:30only their human rights, but also the economy and job creation in Spain.
12:36Are you satisfied with that answer or would you like a follow up?
12:39Well, it just basically creates another pull factor into the European Union.
12:43Quick reaction?
12:43And the Saxon thing.
12:44Does that not create a pull factor?
12:45For me it's more or less a sign of an overstretched capacity if you need to regularise things because you're
12:50not able to conclude procedures as such.
12:52I've been involved in migration debates for so long and of course I understand it's a divisive issue.
12:57But having said this, there is nothing in the right and conservative rhetoric that does not lead to pull factor.
13:06Everything is pull factor to the negative approach to migration.
13:10When you treat them as human beings, that's pull factor.
13:14When you regularise them, that's pull factor.
13:17When you incorporate into the job market, that's pull factor.
13:20Apparently the only answer would be expelling them out or having them out of our side, whatever the cost, whatever
13:27it takes.
13:27And of course that leads to an utter contradiction with the values and the EU law which you should be
13:34standing for.
13:35Juan Fernando Lopez, your opportunity now to address the question to Lena Dupont.
13:39Lena, I've known you for years.
13:41Are you happy that actually this return regulation was adopted by the EPP with the far right?
13:48I can picture the far right standing up in a standing ovation to themselves, happy of what they did.
13:55Are you happy with that legalisation of the Meloni practices, of externalising the migration management, of giving the third countries
14:05the chance to pile migrants and asylum seekers altogether in indefinite time, only for the sake of reassuring the member
14:14states that we will be somehow countering back the numbers of migrants which keep knocking on our doors?
14:21Are you happy?
14:23Well, of course, as you can say, it was a difficult decision when we see that only one in five
14:29returnees, only 20% of those who do not have a right to stay within the European Union are still
14:34staying in the European Union.
14:36And it was always an integral part to the pact, because on the one side of the medal, you have
14:41the protection of those who are in need and granted protection.
14:45In the midst of the medal, you have the solidarity of the European Union taking care of responsibility and solidarity
14:51together.
14:51And on the other side of that coin, you have the return policies, because the ones who do not have
14:57a right to stay within the European Union, and this is not against a positive approach to migration or a
15:02treatment as non-humanitarian.
15:05It's just the simple following our own rules, which has always been part of the pact, basically. And you know
15:11that because when we started negotiation on the pact, there were 12 regulations in there.
15:15And just because I'm aware you haven't answered the question. So I think you want to ask a follow up.
15:18Let me make one point clear. Yes, the rate of returnees is low, but it's because of the lack of
15:25an architecture, diplomatic architecture of agreements being negotiated with third countries by the European Union in all, which has got
15:33a single legal personality.
15:35And of course, those returns should be dignified, consistent with the fundamental rights and human rights involved and preferably voluntary.
15:42OK, we've heard from our MEPs. Now it's time to bring in a new argument to this discussion.
15:51I would like to bring in the voice of Eve Getty, director of Amnesty International's EU office.
15:56She said that this vote marks a growing trend towards increasingly harmful, exclusionary and draconian policies on migration with worrying
16:05repercussions for due process and evidence based policymaking.
16:09Far from reducing irregularity, these proposals risk trapping more people in precarious situation.
16:15Lena Dupont, that is the concerns that NGOs are having.
16:18Well, again, we are speaking about a process that has been followed through from the asylum application onwards to the
16:25rejection of the asylum claim and forwards to the return procedure.
16:30So it's it's not like we are just basically rejecting people on unfounded base.
16:36But again, it's in the pact itself. It is said that a fact of protection needs to be there.
16:42And this is a not only a moral obligation, but it's also a treaty obligation, a law obligation for every
16:48member state of the European Union.
16:50And this is the principle of everything that can be done under the arrangements or agreements.
16:54And we've heard from Charlie Weimers, that's the Swedish negotiator from the right wing party, the European conservatives and reformers
17:01hailing this as the new consensus in Europe, chanting the new era of deportations has begun.
17:07This is why NGOs are so concerned, Juan Fernando.
17:09I reject that kind of a rhetoric for sure. And I agree with the concerns that have been expressed by
17:16NGOs as to the flaws of this new policy and legislation that the European Union is putting in place with
17:23the cooperation of the right with the far right.
17:24It is the contrary. The thing is that for member states to have agreements with third countries, it deters the
17:34very possibility of the European Union deploying a diplomacy in itself.
17:38And it should be the European Union negotiating with countries of transit and origin, so that that cooperation with countries
17:46of transit at origin would have as a result, first giving opportunities for people to stay where they are born
17:54instead of doing whatever, even resorting to human trafficking and international criminal organizations to make it to the European Union.
18:02But once they are in the European Union, I insist, they are subject to the Charter of Fundamental Rights, which
18:10protects not only European citizens, but all human beings under EU law.
18:15And they have been applied EU law, they have been implemented EU law in the worst scenario, in the worst
18:22possibility you might think of, which is precisely that member states are now legalizing those practices with third countries with
18:31no legally binding agreements, whatever.
18:36No, no legally binding agreements, just some kind of a deal suffices to keep human beings out of the European
18:43Union without human rights consideration.
18:45But point, just let me, also from my understanding, because I fully agree with you on the point of the
18:51diplomacy, actually.
18:52And I fully agree also with you on the redemption of that language, because we're speaking about human beings.
18:59Whatever we did with the asylum and migration pact, again, returns being integral part of it, we're speaking about human
19:05beings.
19:05So this is the first thing.
19:07Second thing, I agree with you on the migration diplomacy.
19:09But if now member states, together with the European Commission, or bilaterally, trilaterally, are actually implementing those treaties and corporations
19:18that you called for with the migration diplomacy, then how can it be bad?
19:22Because it is based on treaties and agreements and arrangements that are not only enforceable, but also are able to
19:29follow up.
19:29If we want to create more possibilities for people to stay in an area where they have a perspective, where
19:37they're close to their region, where they have safe and stable conditions, before making the route to the European Union.
19:44Why shouldn't we do that?
19:45We've heard from our MEPs.
19:47Now it is time to take a short break here on The Ring.
19:49But we'll be back very soon with some more Political Punch.
20:00Welcome back to The Ring, Eurie News' weekly debate show broadcasting here from the Parliament in Brussels.
20:06I'm joined by the MEPs Juan Fernando López Aguiar and Lena Dupont.
20:10And this week we're focusing on the topic of migration and the point of return hubs.
20:15And we wanted to share this data with you.
20:18480,000 people were ordered to leave the European Union each year, but only 20% or 25% are
20:25actually returned.
20:26And according to Eurostat, in 2024, it was Germany, Spain, Italy and France that received 70 to 75% of
20:34all EU asylum claims.
20:36And this comes as 1 million asylum cases are pending across the European Union.
20:41So why, Juan Fernando, do you think this is happening?
20:45What is causing these delays?
20:46Because you need arrangements, agreements, legally binding agreements with countries of origin.
20:53Not with any country.
20:54Because if we didn't have these figures, you wouldn't need the return hubs.
20:56This return regulation lacks every meaningful link with a country of origin.
21:02It doesn't matter where do you belong as long as there's someone willing to keep you out of our sight.
21:09Meaning that maybe some sub-Saharan Africa coming actually from, let's say, Mali or let's say Ghana can be returned
21:20to whatever country, to Libya, to Morocco, to Tunisia, as long as the ruler is willing to have them.
21:29Is that fair? Of course not.
21:32What we need is a legal architecture.
21:33But can you understand people's concerns with that data?
21:35What we need is a legal architecture with countries of origin so that you make certain that you're actually returning
21:41someone to the country where that particular someone actually came from.
21:46But you, on the other hand, believe that the return hubs will increase efficiency and that by, in a couple
21:51of years, those figures will be very different.
21:53Well, first of all, again, return hubs is not the only thing that is in the return regulation as such.
21:58We are also speaking about member states streamlining their procedures, helping each other out with resources, taking European...
22:04Do you trust member states will do that?
22:06I mean...
22:07Well, member states are the ones asking for that.
22:09So I assume they will also then follow up on your own proposals and policies...
22:12Because implementation is always the big challenge here, right?
22:15One thing is promising something.
22:16Of course it is.
22:17Implementation is the devil in the detail.
22:19And we will also make sure politically that we will follow up from the European perspective on member states, fulfilling
22:25their not only implementation, but really also then driving up what they have been asking for.
22:29But again, I mean, Juan, your idea, and to a certain extent I do subscribe to that, but that would
22:35have already worked in the current cases, because there is the international obligation to take back your own national citizens.
22:41And this is what third countries are not doing in some cases.
22:45So we need a leverage.
22:46Of course it is to the best use if we do it together at European level.
22:49But we also know that member states have to do some links to third countries where they have a good
22:55cooperation already.
22:56And the last point actually on that, it's about, and this is the part of the agreement or the arrangement
23:01then, to really put forward perspectives for the people there.
23:04So this is an integral part of the policy as such.
23:07Let me tell you something.
23:08I chaired the Committee of Liberal Justice and Home Affairs for 10 years, and I represented the European Parliament, the
23:13Council of Ministers of Interior.
23:15I heard them saying, live, fly them to Rwanda.
23:19And my question was, why Rwanda?
23:22Because only do you think they are black, they are indistinct in Rwanda and whatever African country, no matter where
23:28they belong to?
23:28The thing is that we need actually to change our look, act more positively, and of course exert European diplomacy
23:38to come to terms with countries of origin and, needless to say, transit too,
23:43so that agreements are binding in the legal way and consistent with EU law.
23:51Not any agreement would suffice.
23:54And this language, Lena Dupont, that we're hearing inside ministries' meetings and used by politicians is having an impact on
23:59society.
23:59We've seen an increase in racist attacks and xenophobic attacks in countries like Germany.
24:03Well, this was mainly because for far too long, actually, both at European level and also at a certain extent
24:09at national level, we tend to not address the concerns of the citizens.
24:14And there is an overstretch in capacities in almost all member states, which is why it is so important that
24:20we have a distinction between asylum and migration,
24:24because the people you're addressing are completely different, the capacities, the structures you need are completely different.
24:31And I think that this is one of the starting points.
24:33And what people experienced in the past is that people felt the need that actually we had lost control.
24:39What we have been proposing here, both in the pact and with the mandate of the parliament on returns,
24:44is that we put forward a structured and ordered, a humane way of organising asylum and migration.
24:51And it is now time for the fifth and the final round.
24:58So now it's time for something a little bit different.
25:00I'm going to be asking our MEPs just one question and you can only answer yes or no.
25:06OK, let's begin.
25:09Are current EU returns too slow?
25:11Yes or no?
25:12Yes.
25:13Yes or no?
25:14Yes.
25:15You both agree on that one.
25:16Should EU countries set up return hubs abroad?
25:19Yes or no?
25:20Yes.
25:21No.
25:21Yes or no?
25:21No.
25:22Very clear no.
25:22Is irregular migration a threat today to the European Union?
25:26Léna Dupont, yes or no?
25:28Not as such.
25:29Yes or no?
25:30No, definitely not.
25:32It's a fact.
25:33And asylum is a right.
25:34But it needs to be in an ordered and structured way.
25:38Should rejected asylum seekers be returned to safe third countries?
25:41Yes or no?
25:41Yes.
25:43No.
25:44Should miners be exempt from return hubs?
25:47Yes or no?
25:48Yes.
25:48OK.
25:49According to the mandate.
25:51Should the European Union prioritize efficiency over individual claims?
25:55Yes or no?
25:55Yes.
25:56No.
25:57Should Frontex have greater powers?
26:00Yes or no?
26:01In the returns process as such?
26:03Yes.
26:04It should have a mandate to cooperate better with third countries.
26:08Is the EU's migration commissioner doing a good job?
26:12Magnus Brunner, yes or no?
26:13Yes.
26:14Well, well, well, well.
26:18I mean, it's not personal, but I can only be sorry to see that his proposals have been endorsed
26:25with standing ovation by the far right.
26:28Could the war in the Middle East trigger a new migration wave here in the European Union?
26:33Yes or no?
26:33We are monitoring very actively the situation in the region and we are prepared.
26:39Yes.
26:40Yes.
26:40And we shouldn't panic.
26:42We can handle it.
26:43Well, that was my next question.
26:44Is the European Union prepared for this scenario?
26:46Yes or no?
26:47Not in the current circumstances.
26:49Not in the current so-called relation of forces.
26:52But according to EU capacity, for sure it should.
26:56So we shouldn't panic.
26:58We can handle it as long as we do it according to EU values and EU law.
27:02What is of utmost importance is that we closely cooperate with our countries,
27:07our partner countries that we have in the region.
27:09Final question.
27:10Did you agree with anything you heard from Lena Dupont?
27:13Yes or no?
27:14Yes.
27:15And did you agree with anything you heard from Juan Fernando López Aguilar?
27:18Yes or no?
27:18Well, not with everything, but with anything, yes.
27:20Yeah.
27:20Well, we give a glimpse there of how you actually can meet compromises here in the European Parliament.
27:25Lena Dupont and Juan Fernando López Aguilar, thank you so much for joining us here on The Ring.
27:29And thank you so much for tuning in.
27:32You can write us your views or comments at thering at yournews.com.
27:36That is our email address.
27:37Take care and stay with us here on Euronews.
27:51Transcription by CastingWords
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