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Migration in Europe: Security vs solidarity? MEPs clash in The Ring
This week The Ring turns to Europe’s migration debate, as the EU moves toward tougher deportation rules and explores controversial “return hubs” for rejected asylum-seekers outside the Union.
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2025/12/17/migration-in-europe-security-vs-solidarity-meps-clash-in-the-ring
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This week The Ring turns to Europe’s migration debate, as the EU moves toward tougher deportation rules and explores controversial “return hubs” for rejected asylum-seekers outside the Union.
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2025/12/17/migration-in-europe-security-vs-solidarity-meps-clash-in-the-ring
Subscribe to our channel. Euronews is available on Dailymotion in 12 languages
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' brand new debate show from the European Parliament
00:15in Strasbourg to your home loan. And once a week we speak to two elected members of the
00:20European Parliament. They come face to face to confront their views about the most pressing
00:25issues for Europe and this week the EU's migration policy. Let's get started.
00:33Only a few months after the EU adopted a new migration and asylum pact, which should enter
00:39into force by June 2026, the European Council agreed on stricture deportation measures and
00:45the creation of return hubs for rejected asylum seekers potentially located outside the EU.
00:50These reforms and calls come amid a rise in anti-migration policies and far-right parties
00:56in European countries. And now it's the European Parliament's turn to ratify or dismiss them.
01:03So far though, the tougher anti-migration policies don't seem to have the desired effect.
01:08Recent statistics show that the number of asylum seekers is going down in Europe, but the influx
01:13of refugees continues and the crossing remains deadly, while activists and NGOs warn of the
01:19continuous neglect of human rights. Therefore, the question persists. Are tougher EU migration
01:25policies the way forward or are they just a way to keep the far-right at bay?
01:33So are stricter rules the way forward or is this just a way to keep the far-right at bay? That's
01:39the question that we'll be asking to our contenders. Let's meet them.
01:43Charlie Weimers, Swedish MEP, vice president of the European Conservatives and Reformists Group.
01:51An advocate for much stricter migration controls at the EU level, he has proposed physical border
01:57barriers around the EU to deter irregular migration. We do not want more asylum migration for the moment,
02:03he once said.
02:07Leigh Andersen, Finnish MEP for the left group in the European Parliament.
02:12Former Minister of Education, she focuses on equality, social justice, workers' rights and human rights.
02:18Pushbacks are contrary to international human rights law and the assessment of their legality
02:23will remain in the hands of the courts, not the commission, she said.
02:27Mr. Weimers and Madam Andersen, thank you very much for joining us on The Ring.
02:35Is migration a problem or is it an opportunity?
02:38Well, unfortunately, it is a problem because of decades of mass uncontrolled immigration,
02:44which has led to segregation, increased crime, as in my home country, where we used to regard
02:53the shootings and bombings as something that others experienced. Now it's an everyday experience in Sweden.
03:00So we have big problems and we have to get now breathing room to deal with them.
03:06Same question for you, Madam Andersen.
03:09Well, I think it's clear that Europe needs migration.
03:12We are in a part of the world that is growing older, so it's clear that we need more people.
03:17But it's also clear that the way that Europe has handled the migration policy has also created
03:23a lot of human rights problems. Look at the Mediterranean, for example, where the
03:26lack of legal pathways has led to thousands and thousands of tragic deaths. We also know that
03:32many members of the EU states have not implemented the EU asylum policy or even the decision of the
03:38courts in a uniform way. So there are problems, but the problems are human rights problems.
03:43Let me go back to you. However, you said there is now, if I understood correctly,
03:47a clear connection between migration and crime. Some would say that is flat out racist. How do you
03:54respond? I would say just go to the Strasbourg Christmas market. Did it used to be a fortress back
04:02in the 80s, the 90s, even 15 years ago? Today, it is a fortress reminding us of how it used to be in
04:10the green zone in Baghdad under the US occupation. And that has with migration to do. The foiled
04:17terror attack against the Christmas market in Germany had with migration to do because these
04:22were jihadists, Islamists that wanted to hurt ordinary Europeans. This is the traditional way
04:28of argumenting for the far right and the extreme right. So they try to equate all debate and all
04:33discussion around migration to be about crime. Crime is crime and it needs to be addressed as crime.
04:38Yes, we need to fight organized crime. Yes, we need to fight terrorism. We have tools and policies
04:43to do that. But I do also think that Europeans know that when we talk about migration,
04:48we also talk about their neighbors. We talk about their classmates. We talk about families and people
04:54that they live with, work with, study with. So when we talk about migration policy, we need to be able
05:01to look at the full picture and also to discuss people that have a reason to apply, for example,
05:07for asylum and that might also have a reason to receive asylum within the European Union.
05:12He did mention something important and interesting, which is the Christmas market in Strasbourg now is
05:17boarded up because of the idea of terror. Do you associate that to migration?
05:22I think we do a very big mistake also for the cohesion of our societies if we equate
05:30terrorism with migration, exactly for the reasons that I said. Europe is a continent consisting of
05:36people that have come here from different places that live here, that work here, that have families
05:41here, that pay taxes here, that get their pensions here and so on. We need to fight crime as crime,
05:48but we should not mix it up with the whole discussion on migration policy. Well,
05:53I wonder when the far left will connect the dots, because if you look at terrorist attacks in Europe,
06:01they are very often committed by people with a non-European background. In your own hometown of Turku,
06:10a failed asylum seeker murdered citizens of Finland, and you know, why was he still allowed to be in Finland?
06:18Because of rules that you defend that makes it impossible to deport convicted rapists and terrorists to their home countries.
06:26Why do you defend these rules? And do you know, in my hometown of Turku, where there was this terrible terrorist accident,
06:34a knife attack? Do you know who were the persons to intervene in that situation? They were also asylum seekers.
06:43In my hometown, nobody bought into this rhetoric of the extreme right, because they also saw the people
06:49who were courageous enough to intervene in that situation to try and protect the innocent civilians
06:55that became victims of this knife attack. Yes, there are criminals. Some of them have a migrant background.
07:01Yes, we need to be serious when we talk about fighting terrorism and organized crime. But we cannot
07:07make a creative picture where we try and present all migrants or all asylum seekers as criminals,
07:13because that is not true. That does not reflect reality. That did not reflect the reality in my hometown
07:19of Turku. And it does not reflect the reality where Europeans live. I want to give you a right
07:23reply. But to play devil's advocate, some would argue there would have been no attack and therefore no need
07:28to intervene. That person who did not have a legal permit to be in Europe had not been there at that
07:32time. That's the core of the issue. Is it possible to create a society with absolutely no migration?
07:41It is not. That kind of solutions to the societal problems. I mean, one problem with the far right is
07:47that they want to solve every societal problem with saying that as long as we restrict migration,
07:52this will go away. Unemployment. Let's restrict migration. Terrorism. Let's restrict or crime.
07:58Let's restrict migration. Learning outcomes going down. Let's restrict migration. But you do not
08:05actually present any solutions to the societal problems at hand. What are your solutions to fight the
08:12specific topic of crime or terrorism or the specific topic of unemployment or the specific topic of learning
08:19outcomes? It's not enough to just say that you want closed borders. The borders will never be
08:25completely closed. There will still be criminals. We will still have learning outcomes that go down.
08:31We will still have problems with unemployment. So we need to be able to address these societal problems
08:36for what they are with real political solutions to them. Well, I would invite you to read the statistics
08:43from Sweden showing that the immigration has led to an increase of crime. It's not me saying that it's the
08:49crime prevention agency in Sweden. So the statistics is there. You just have to bother to have a look at it.
08:58Also, when it comes to the issue of putting everyone in the same basket. No, that's not the case. We differ
09:07between those who build cars, who contribute and those who burn cars. And the question is here,
09:14Leanderjon, why do you say no to the deportation of criminal foreigners? Because that's what you do
09:22if there's a slight theoretical risk for them in their home country. Why don't you want to send them home?
09:28Firstly, we've actually had a lot of experts from Sweden coming to Finland saying, do not repeat the
09:35mistakes we have done in Sweden when it comes, for example, segregation. Do not create societies where
09:41you have working class families living in separate areas without any kind of perspective of social
09:48mobility, of being able to create the life that they want for themselves. When it comes to deportation
09:53of criminals, my party has not said no. It is possible to deport offenders that have committed serious
10:02crimes as long as the principle of non-reforma is respected. So that is the only kind of limit,
10:09I would say legally, to when it's not possible to do it. And that, of course, I think we both agree
10:15we need to respect. But we have not said a categorical no to deportations of criminals. We have to now move
10:23on in the show. It's called The Ring. So let's take gloves off.
10:30Now, of course, as we always say, it is time for our viewers to get a real taste of the European
10:35Parliament and what it looks like from within. You both obviously are elected to protect your
10:40constituents and also ask each other tough questions and bring up tough issues. So now I
10:45will give you the floor so you can ask each other questions. And I know I cut you off. So,
10:49Mr. Weiners, I will give you the first question. You have the floor. Paris cancelled its New Year's
10:55Eve celebrations. The Christmas market here in Strasbourg looks like it's under siege, a fortress.
11:05Families are afraid to go out. Is that a price worth paying for Europeans in order to preserve
11:11liberal asylum policies? That is a price that we are paying for the rise of extremism in Europe. And we
11:18see it both. There is Islamist extremism. There is far right extremism extremism. We have seen examples
11:25of terrorism attacks of both of these. And I do honestly think that if we engage in this kind of
11:32debate that the extreme and the far right is doing, where they kind of put this shadow of doubt
11:39on every single member of our societies that have a background from somewhere else, whose family has a
11:45background from somewhere else, we do not actually fight the root causes of extremism. We make it
11:51worse. So I think we should let the police do its work when it comes to combating terrorism and crime.
11:58And our responsibility as decision makers and policy makers is to make sure that we do not
12:04create more division in our societies, but less. And now, of course, it's your turn for a question.
12:11So, Charlie Weimers, I'm interested to know if you would say that Morocco, Egypt and Tunisia are safe
12:21countries, for example, for people belonging to the LGBT community or for journalists or political dissidents?
12:29These are safe countries. They're not at war. They have no situation in which a major persecution is
12:38ongoing. So we should be able to send back migrants coming from there because those migrants are generally
12:45not fleeing for their lives. So you're saying it's not an ideal place, perhaps, for your lifestyle.
12:52But if you do not have the right to be legal in Europe, you should go back to Morocco.
12:56That's what I'm saying. And this has been the problem for many years that people have been
13:01coming to Europe, not because they fled a war, but because they looked for a better life.
13:09They came from safe countries of origin.
13:11But prosecution may not be a war. She's talking about the LGBTQ plus community.
13:15Sure thing. You don't have to be a war to be prosecuted.
13:17I understand that it's not optimal for an LGBTQ person to be in Morocco. But we cannot be the
13:26destination of all people living under non-Western regimes. That's not how it can work. And we also
13:33have the situation where people pass through safe countries on their way to countries such as Germany,
13:40Finland, Sweden. And that can't stand. That's why it's so important what the commission has now
13:46proposed and what we're dealing with now in the parliament to establish these safe countries of
13:52origin. So you're saying it's not ideal, but it's also not Europe's problem. Yes.
13:57I think there is a huge contradiction here when it comes to the rhetoric of the extreme and the far
14:01right. Because on the one hand, you're kind of saying that everybody, you know, that these countries,
14:05these cultures that these people that are coming here are dangerous and they do not respect. I mean,
14:11this is your rhetoric. This is how you talk, not me. And they do not respect the rules of our
14:16societies. They do not respect women's rights, for example, or the rights of LGBT community. But then
14:21when it comes to EU legislation, you're all of a sudden saying that, yes, it's completely safe for
14:25people who belong to the LGBTQI community or for journalists, political dissidents, young women to go
14:31back to these countries. No need to be very specific when it comes to their asylum claims.
14:36And this is also actually contradictory to what the European parliament itself has said,
14:40that has adopted several resolutions with concerning the human rights abuses and problems in,
14:46for example, Egypt and Tunisia. You talk about violence and some of the violence that some women
14:51may face if they have to go back to countries that you say are not safe. Some argue, however,
14:56women in Europe, and I'm sure you would agree with this, have become less safe as a result of
15:01uncontrolled illegal migration. What do you respond to that? I think this is exactly the contradiction
15:06of their rhetoric. I mean, I have always said that we have patriarchal structures everywhere.
15:12So it's a patriarchy, the problem. I don't know any society that is free,
15:15unfortunately, is free from violence against women that are free from patriarchal structures.
15:21But the foreign extreme right try to present it as this is something that is coming to Europe
15:25from elsewhere. And now at the same time, migration is a patriarchy. That's a problem.
15:29I would say so, because do you know any society that is free of those problems? I do not,
15:33unfortunately. I mean, there are countries and regimes such as the Taliban regime, where it's
15:37of course, much, much worse. But I also come from a country with very high numbers when it comes to
15:44violence against women and domestic violence. So trying to say that this is a problem only some
15:50places is not correct. Okay, well, just for a second, let's stop here because I want to bring in now
15:57a new voice. And now in reaction to the European Council's decision to reform the EU migration
16:06pact, which you alluded to and introduces now a solidarity pool, the Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor
16:12Orbán said on social media that, quote, the latest Brazilian decision requires that from next July, Hungary
16:20must either take migrants in from other European countries or pay for them. I want to make it
16:26absolutely clear. And that's a quote for once and for all that as long as Hungary has a national
16:32government, we will not implement this outrageous decision. Now, my question to you is, does Viktor Orban
16:40have a point? Yeah, well, Sweden is among those countries supposed to take the most migrants through
16:47this solidarity mechanism. And I wonder, has the commission even looked at how many migrants Sweden
16:54has taken during the last decades? No, they have not. They have not taken that into account. So instead, we will have to pay in to Brussels a fee for not receiving forced migration upon Sweden.
17:09And I think that's a principle in breach with subsidiarity. That's why I voted against that
17:14principle. And that's why I claim that it's morally wrong. The Greeks, they'll say we need help. And that
17:20means either financial compensation or quota. How do you respond to that? That should be managed through
17:25the ordinary EU budget. They should get help. They should get EU financing for border barriers, which they are
17:32not being provided with at the moment, which my opponent is against. So that we could offer,
17:39but not by implementing a system in which Sweden is supposed to accept migrants by dictate from Brussels.
17:47And on this point, either you take a quote of people or you pay to facilitate, obviously,
17:53financial assistance. Some would argue the issue is that that's not really how it works. The core problem
17:58is the number of arrivals to deal with it. You need to bring down that migration. This migration pact
18:03will not work in real life, will it? I think it depends very much on what other types of policies
18:09and actions the EU will do in terms of migration, like how we succeed in terms with legal pathways,
18:15for example. As long as there are no legal pathways, we will continue to see irregular flows of migrants
18:22doing these very dangerous trips over the Mediterranean. And I sincerely hope that Sweden will not
18:28walk down the path of Hungary, where you openly disobey binding EU law. So I think that this
18:33solidarity mechanism is a good part of this asylum and migration policy pact that was decided last
18:39mandate. Because at the moment, the biggest pressure, of course, is directed at these countries in the
18:47southern part of Europe, just because of their geographical location. But they don't want the money,
18:51they want people out. Exactly. And I think they have a point there. I think they have a point there. I don't
18:55think it's fair that they introduced this possibility of buying yourself out of solidarity as part of
19:01this solidarity mechanism. So I think it would be much better, actually, if you would then require
19:06countries to actually accept migrants and hopefully also that the relocation can be done on a voluntary
19:12basis. So accept migrants from the point of view of the migrants. That will lead to a massive crisis of
19:17legitimacy. Brussels forcing migrants upon unwilling member states. Can you imagine the popular reaction? Well, I
19:25think that parties like mine would thrive. So a la bonheur. But it's also, I mean, it is also
19:31Brussels that has decided to use these rules about you having to apply for asylum in the first country
19:36that you arrive to. And this is what has created the pressure on southern Europe. So whether we like
19:42it or not, this is a European question. Okay, let's take a short break. We've got to take a short break here on
19:48The Ring. Please, however, stay with us. We'll be back very soon with more political punch.
20:02Welcome back to The Ring, Euronews' new weekly show. I'm joined by MEPs Charlie Weimers and Lee
20:08Anderson. And the idea here is to bring the European Parliament's debate to your couch. So what about you?
20:15That is the question. What do you think are the most important issues that the EU is facing?
20:21When asked about the most important issues facing the European Union in a poll, responders most
20:27frequently cited the war in Ukraine and immigration followed as the second most significant concern.
20:34The international situation more broadly was mentioned by 19% of the responders while security
20:40and defense appeared highlighted by 18%. Immigration, of course, Western Europe is living with the
20:47consequences of a liberal migration policy. And we need to deal with that now. We need to
20:55fix the problems that other politicians have caused through a very reckless policy in which
21:02they let in a whole lot of people who never really had asylum reasons. Is Europe changing too much? And when
21:09you hear Europe should stay Europe, does that mean Christian and what? Well, I mean, for instance,
21:16my party is among the biggest among people with an immigrant background in Sweden. So it has nothing with
21:25skin color to do. It has with a wish to have our countries remain what it used to be when people came here.
21:34I do not think that social cohesion is based on what religion or ethnicity you share. I think social
21:40cohesion is something absolutely that you can create in societies with well-functioning services,
21:46to trust, to building this culture of trust, to having well-functioning services. And a big concern that we
21:52have now, when we talk about these new migration policies from the EU side, is that in many parts
21:58of these, Europe is taking steps away from a human rights-based way of making policies.
22:06How is this a violation to international law? I mean, Jovia Maloney was not able to do her Albania plan
22:12because it was contrary to EU law. It was also contrary... She was successful to the extent that everyone
22:18wants to replicate it now. It was also... Exactly. But it doesn't take away the fundamental problems
22:23legally. So it was contrary to EU law. It's contrary to some human rights law as well. And now they are
22:29trying to change EU law to make it legal. We've got to move on. However, I want to ask you a final
22:35question. The Italian prime minister, she made a bet which said, okay, I know this will end up in court,
22:40but it is still worth the risk because of the signal that it will send. Is that something that you agree?
22:45Sometimes playing around with the law politically may be useful? She did the right thing. And look
22:50what happens now. The EU is moving forward with the concept of return hubs. Even if it's illegal,
22:56even at the risk that it may be illegal. We're making it possible now for individual member states
23:02to make agreements with third countries to establish return hubs. Even if there's a possibility that it
23:07may be illegal. Well, it will be legal when we have voted. So it's on its way. And even
23:15if the European Parliament will accept these laws, that means a big step away from respecting human
23:21rights obligations and human rights safeguards, the EU member states will still be bound by
23:26international human rights treaties. So there will still be the issue of the European Convention on
23:31Human Rights, for example, that will still mean that countries have a legal responsibility for the
23:36people that seek asylum. So I do not think that the legal question will be dealt with at the point
23:43where the European Parliament accept these laws. I do think that there will still be big legal issues.
23:48Well, Leanderson keeps repeating non-refoulement. And that in practice, Leanderson, means that you don't
23:55want to deport a convicted rapist or terrorist if there's a slight theoretical chance of mistreatment
24:02in the country of origin. My policy is very simple. If you rape someone, if you murder someone,
24:09you go home. As I said, it is possible to deport convicted criminals. That is not the case. But the
24:16rate is very low. And it's not a theoretical. I mean, I really recommend to Charlie Weimers also to
24:22read some of the court cases from the European Court of Human Rights, especially on how they also
24:28actually have more liberal line on these cases than they did before. For me, the most important thing
24:34is that Europe stays true to the fundamental values of Europe. It is dangerous that in this time with
24:40rising extreme right forces, we see Orbán, we see Putin, we see all of these authoritarian leaders
24:46who do not respect international law, that do not respect human rights law. We are hearing the same
24:53voices in Europe saying we should not, we should just disregard what the human rights treatise said
24:59and forget about these fundamental principles. That is dangerous for all of us. We continue
25:03now into our fifth and final round. So hopefully you're ready.
25:11I'm going to ask you a set of questions. And of course, the answer, I know it's difficult at times,
25:16but it must be a yes or no answer. So let's see if we manage to. The first question, do return hubs
25:22outside of the European Union undermine the right to seek asylum? No, because it's about returns of failed
25:30asylum seekers. Yes. When you look at return hubs paid by the EU, yes or no, that's taxpayer money?
25:39Yes, potentially. No, it is, it will be an extremely expensive and ineffective system. Human rights
25:46laws, are they becoming or preventing the European Union from protecting its own borders? Yes, it's stopping
25:53the EU from protecting its own citizens. So human rights have become a problem. Yes or no? Human rights,
25:59international legislation has become a problem. No, states have the right to protect their own borders
26:04under international law. I think that is completely clear and nobody has contested that. Human rights law
26:10creates certain obligations on states to respect the fundamental rights of people seeking refuge.
26:17That is what we are discussing now. There's, however, a point which we want to treat very
26:22delicately and that is this tougher migration laws. Are they connected or could they be fueling the tragic
26:29accidents that we see in the Mediterranean? Do you see a connection? Yes or no? We're taking a big risk
26:34that leads to deaths. No, it's the open borders that incentivizes deadly boats over the Mediterranean.
26:42Yes, it is the lack of legal pathways for migration that creates the situation in the Mediterranean.
26:48Some countries assimilate better than others, yes or no? Absolutely. I mean, that's a no-brainer.
26:54This is a very dangerous part of the extreme rhetoric where they're trying to present certain cultures as
26:59incompatible with each other. And this, I mean, this is also, it's the same rhetoric that has been used,
27:05that was used on skin color, used to be used, and now we are talking about cultures. And final question,
27:10has your opponent in any way managed to change your mind, your views? No.
27:17Same question to you, but I can guess the answer already. No, surprisingly not.
27:21Thank you very much for joining us here on The Ring on Euronews. And as every week and as ever,
27:27we want to hear from you and get your thoughts. So please do write to us at the ring at Euronews.com.
27:34And of course, see you soon on Euronews. And hopefully we can get a handshake,
27:38because that's also part of democracy. Thank you very much.
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