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00:00Hello, I'm Angela Scanlon and welcome to Unfinished Business, the show that over-analyses the dog-eat-dog
00:05world of The Apprentice. Coming up, I'll be speaking to the latest candidates to leave the
00:10process, Kieran and Rothner. Lord Sugar shares his thoughts on the task, and look what the
00:16cat's dragged in. I'm joined by presenter Owain Wynne-Evans and Apprentice interviewer and business
00:22expert Claudine Collins. This is The Apprentice Unfinished Business.
00:30Welcome Claudine and Owain. Oh, thanks for having us. Thank you for being here. The teams this week
00:38had to create a new pet lifestyle brand, so they had to design a product, they had to create a
00:43social
00:43media video and then pitch to retailers. Claudine, what is the secret to a task like this? I think
00:49first and foremost, you have to devise a product that is slightly different to what's out there.
00:57something that people that own that pet would actually want. And you really have to believe
01:04in it, you have to be passionate about it. Social media videos got to be a bit funny,
01:08the brand has to be on point with the actual product. So there's a lot of things to get right,
01:15but I think first and foremost, the product has to be something that is just a little bit outside of
01:21the box from the norm. This was a classic case of cats versus dogs. Where do your alliances lie?
01:27Dog. Dog. I am obsessed with dogs. I don't have one because I'm working and it wouldn't be fair,
01:35but honestly, a dog cannot go past me in the street without me saying, can I just give it a
01:40little
01:40pet? Okay. What about you, Owen? I am a cat person traditionally, but I do feel like now I'm
01:48wanting to sort of dip a toe in both camps because I really want a dog. But my cat Franny
01:53is 14.
01:54She's an old girl. I just love the complete lack of unconditional love. I love the way that she
02:00looks me up and down and wishes that I wasn't there. But I don't know if she's, you know, I'm
02:06very
02:06working class, I come from a very working class background. I can't figure out if the cat is classist
02:11or homophobic at this stage. But there's something about me she doesn't like. It was a bit of a dog
02:16fight, wasn't it, on Team Alpha to bag the project manager role. Let's remind ourselves of that.
02:22Guys, I would also like to put myself on this PM as a dog owner. I know what dogs love.
02:26I've had
02:27German Shepherds growing up and now I also have a Shih Tzu, so I've had big dogs, small dogs.
02:32I can speak dog. I can speak dog as well. People call me the dog whisperer. I've got a cockapoo,
02:39I had a lab, rescued a Shih Tzu. I've also had a cat. Cats and dogs, horses, all of it.
02:47Can you speak dog? I can't speak dog. No, not me.
02:50But it does feel like we've kind of seen the last couple of weeks,
02:53both Karishma and Pasha have kind of fought to take the reins. Two alphas on Team Alpha.
03:01Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it was really interesting, you know, with that exchange,
03:05that they both not only wanted to take that role, but actually, I do think they both
03:13seriously love dogs. And they kind of, you know, are therefore qualified to be the person who's
03:18kind of leading a challenge like that? Yeah. I mean, I think the boys just didn't know what
03:23had hit them. They're both like looking from one to the other going, OK, yeah, I'm not definitely
03:28not putting myself forward. It's got to be one of these boss women. But yeah, they're really kind
03:34of like fighting for it. I know. I absolutely love it. Yeah, so do I. I love it. So do
03:39I.
03:39The team created a talking dog bed, an innovative idea, but lacking in scientific backing,
03:46it would appear. Were you guys sold on it? So I actually was sold on it. I thought,
03:52oh, my God, that's such a good idea. Now, as I stated, I don't actually have a dog. However,
03:58what I do think is they could have adapted it. It could be a soothing sound for the dog when
04:04an ambulance goes past or a big noise goes past. So the noise activation. Yes, it could have been
04:09adapted to that. So I think that that was a good idea. I thought, you know, what I was expecting
04:16this product to be was something that you could send a voice message to, as opposed to it being the
04:23same, which, as we saw on the show, gets a little bit repetitive after a while. But it's like,
04:28hi, baby, I'll be home soon. Loads of love on heavy rotation. And then it's like, this is starting to
04:35wear thin. You said you'd be home soon. Nine hours ago. So true. You've lost my trust. Literally,
04:42when you close the front door upon leaving. Hi, baby, I'm just gonna pop out. It's so true, isn't it?
04:48But actually, again, they're like makings of something brilliant. And the conviction with
04:54which they sold it was also quite admirable, I would say. Pasha's attempt to make his spelling
05:02mistake look like a luxury maneuver was was a lesson for the ages. It was superb. I mean,
05:10even when a French guy said that it was the wrong spelling, she was like, no, it wasn't.
05:15Yeah, it was. If they would have gone with the confidence of being like, right, OK,
05:21for example, the word evoke is spelt not the way you see it on the back of a Range Rover.
05:28That's a different spelling, you know, and very similar with a chic, chic thing with this.
05:32Poetic license. Poetic license. We've done it this way because we want it to sound that way,
05:36but we don't want it to look that way. Also trademarking. Much easier, you would imagine.
05:40And I think it's important that the records state it is actually the correct spelling in Portuguese.
05:46Yes. Yeah. Not in English or French, obviously. And from one team who knew a lot about pets to
05:53another who knew, well, absolutely nothing. Kieran took the lead due to the deal that he had made
05:59with Lord Sugar. Yeah. And it was either win the task or walk. Do we think that either Rothna or
06:06Dan would have been better suited as PM on this particular task? Oh, absolutely. I think that,
06:12I think Dan did a great job in some elements of this task in particular. I thought he was brilliant.
06:20Whereas I definitely felt like, you know, Kieran was ploughing through with an idea and not really
06:25taking on board anything that Rothna was saying. And I really felt for her actually when I was watching it.
06:32And it's interesting because Rothna flagged early on. Yeah. She's like, Kieran, sometimes you lack
06:38attention to detail. So I want to be with you to keep an eye on that. And she tried. But
06:42did she
06:43need to be a bit more forceful in that? She did. I mean, the honest truth is, I don't think
06:47he'd have
06:48taken any notice, however forceful she was. And ultimately, he's project manager. So he gets the
06:53ultimate say. And her instincts were right. I mean, she knew that cats don't in fact like cheese. They
06:58like mice and mice like cheese. So she's like, there's something here, but it's not quite right.
07:04Absolutely. And I don't know many cats that love bananas and apples either, to be fair.
07:10The banana nearly sent me. Me too.
07:12I mean, my cat has never interacted with a banana. No. Can confirm.
07:17Okay. Owen, do you reckon as a cat dad, that Franny would be into this tree, banana aside?
07:21Banana aside, I think she would take one look at it and think, what the hell is that?
07:25And then, much like she does when I enter the room. I think that she would maybe try the rotating
07:35mouse disc thing. Yeah, that was cute. If they'd have made it something that, you know,
07:41that would fit into a setting like this, you know, stylish, something a little bit mid-century,
07:46something that maybe looked like an indoor plant, not like an actual tree, you know,
07:51the size of an actual tree anyway, maybe it would have worked. But no, Franny would not be interested
07:56in that. She wouldn't be interested. I don't think.
07:57Let's talk about the one-man branding team, Dan. Because actually, left to his own devices,
08:02he was clear, he was enjoying himself, he was assertive. I think Baroness Brady was kind of,
08:08you know, impressed. Yeah, he did really well. Listen, he didn't have to confer with anyone,
08:15he just did what he thought. It could have gone hideously wrong. But actually, it was really good.
08:22I thought it was a good brand, good colouring. Yeah. And everyone seemed to like it.
08:26And I think the designer who was working with him, oh my gosh, there was like smoke coming out
08:31of her fingers. He was like, do that in green, now resize that, now scale that. He knew what he
08:35wanted,
08:36and he was doing it well. Yeah.
08:37What we're after, isn't it? Okay, we've heard what you guys think. Shall we have a little listen
08:42to what Lord Sugar has to say? Yes. He sent me the weekly voice note. Hi, Angela. Hello.
08:48Now, the market research spoke for itself. Common sense was lacking when it came to the cat tree.
08:55You don't need to be a cat lover to know that if your cat can't physically reach the top of
09:01the tree,
09:02then it's time to cut it down. That's a good point. Anyway, next stops,
09:06the final five. Let's hope they don't make a dog's dinner of the interviews.
09:13There you go. There you go. He's not wrong, is he? He's not wrong.
09:17Common sense went a bit out the window, Claudine, didn't it? How do you stay focused? Because I feel
09:22like it is almost with, you know, the final five in sight that there's, you know, it can kind of
09:28get
09:28into your head. I think how you have to do it is you literally have to go back to basics
09:33and you have to
09:34kind of write, what exactly am I looking to do? What am I looking to achieve? How am I going
09:40to get
09:40there? Does this tick all the boxes of what I need it to do? And if you'd have gone back
09:46to that,
09:47it would have been, um, actually, how does the cat get in there? Is it too big? Would it, would
09:52we be
09:53better making it smaller? Do we think it's more attainable then and more will sell? So you just
09:59almost have to take a step back out of yourself and kind of start from the beginning and think,
10:05if there was no, like, not so much pressure on me, what would I do? And that's, that's kind of
10:11how
10:12you have to do it. Well, it is time to meet the candidate who made a big deal with the
10:16big boss.
10:16They say every dog has its day, but this was not Kieran's, was it? Let's remind ourselves of the
10:21moment that he walked. And the message there is, you didn't push him enough. You gave in too early.
10:29Let's go walkies.
10:32We had a deal. We've got a deal.
10:36Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for the opportunity.
10:39Well done, Kieran. All the best, guys.
10:45Kieran, everybody. Thank you. Brilliant. Welcome. Let's go walkies.
10:51Let's go walkies. Let's go talkies. Iconic.
10:54It was quite iconic. I even forgot I said that as well, which is hilarious.
10:57It was quite good. That was good. Let's talk about the deal that you made with Lord Sugar.
11:01Had you considered it? Like, was it planned when you were about to go back into the boardroom,
11:05were you like, this is what I'm going to throw at him last minute? Or was it totally spur of
11:09the moment?
11:09Um, in the CAF, I was like, I've probably got to figure something out here to stay.
11:17I thought I was going. So I kind of just thought, why not? Let's give it some. And he just
11:22come out.
11:23Are you OK? It's when he went through, everyone was like, do you want to make this deal? And I
11:27was
11:27like, oh, no. If someone said yes, they might have like, they got the opportunity and I was going.
11:31Yeah. But it works. It works. Sort of. Sort of.
11:36Um, the cat tree. The beautiful cat tree. The beautiful cat tree. Let's talk about it. It was
11:44pretty large and pretty heavy. In fact, we actually couldn't get it here today because
11:48I don't have a pickup truck. But Rathna, at a few points, did attempt to interject and,
11:57you know, tried to tone it down a bit, but you stuck very much to your mantra of go big
12:02or go home.
12:02Was that a mistake? I should have listened to Rathna, but I'm like, when I get an idea,
12:07I'm just like, let's do it. Let's like, just go crazy with it. Um, you know, house plants are
12:12normally like five, six foot, right? Well, it depends on the house plant, I suppose.
12:16Yeah. I mean, maybe it's not for flats. Maybe it is for just nice big homes
12:20and houses and big flats. Tall flats. Yeah. High ceilings.
12:26Very high ceilings. Okay. In hindsight, do you reckon there's anything you would have done
12:29differently except for maybe listen to Rathna? I think in that task, the only thing I would have
12:34done different and what it's frowned upon throughout the show is that they said, don't interject on other
12:39people's negotiations. If I would have jumped in on Dan, we would have won. We would have got the extra
12:441500 they were willing to give. Other people do interject in the negotiations. I know,
12:49but it's frowned upon, so if it went wrong, it would have made me look bad in a lot. I
12:53mean,
12:53I had nothing to lose. I should have done it, but yeah. When you didn't win, you stuck to your
12:58bargain. You were like, okay, I'm in, I'm out even. And quite an iconic exit. Claudine Owain,
13:04did you expect that Kieran might put up a bit more of a fight? I did, actually. I thought that
13:10you would.
13:10I understand. I mean, you never got the finger, did you? You never got that you're fired.
13:14But you're saying straight off, this is Dan. Dan lost this task force. It was the negotiation
13:20from Dan, yeah. Yeah. So there may have been an opportunity to, you know. I think there could
13:25have been an opportunity, but I'm a man of my word and I sort of live by that in my
13:28everyday life. So,
13:30you know. I think, look, good on you. You're right. You made a deal and you stuck by that deal.
13:36And,
13:37you know, it may well have been, we'll never know, may well have been the same result if you had
13:43fought for it because you were PM like the week before the interviews. But you won't know.
13:49I'll never know. No, you'll never know. No. Fun fact. You are the candidate who was brought back to
13:54the boardroom the most times. Yes. Four, that is, in total. Why do you think that was?
14:00Biggest threat, I reckon. You know, I just think I'm quite loud and out there and I'm quite an easy
14:08person to blame if it all goes wrong because I put my ideas out where some people stay quiet and
14:12don't get noticed as much. And how do you think then that you survived that many? I think Lord Sugar
14:18respects the fact that you go for it and you do get involved. Because if you don't get involved,
14:23what's the point of being there? And he liked you, didn't he? He said he liked your spirit.
14:28Yeah. He liked you. He could see definitely something in you. You know, that's why, that's
14:32how he keeps people in the process time after time because he can see something. I could have stayed.
14:37If I would have fought my spot, I could have stayed. You seemed confident from the get-go.
14:42Were there any moments during the process where you kind of felt a little less self-assured?
14:47Bottom three is a tough place to be and I was there quite a lot. So I'd say every bottom
14:50three,
14:51there's, you know, nerves go through, you're like shaking under the table. And it's when he does
14:56the, he talks to you and then like drops and talks to someone else. You're like, oh my God,
15:00I thought I was going. Yeah. That was pretty stressful. Yeah, I bet. Because you could see
15:05behind all of the, you know, bravado that there were moments where I thought, oh God. Yeah, yeah.
15:11I feel like he's going to cry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Almost a few times after the bottom three. Yeah.
15:17I think it was when Dan said, when Dan said, how's the cat going to get into that thing? You
15:22just went,
15:23oh yeah. Oh God, yeah.
15:26I don't think about that. Now you say it. Yeah.
15:28Let me get a ladder. That's an additional extra. They have to pay for that.
15:32Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's what you said.
15:33There you go. I said that you get like a bolt on. Yeah, yeah, there you go.
15:37You buy the tree and then, because my cat's there. Different fruits, you know.
15:40Exactly. Different fruits. If your cat isn't into, you know, apples and bananas.
15:43Yeah. Berries. They've got a full brand to build, right?
15:48Yeah. Honestly, he's not messing around. What were your highlights, Kieran?
15:52Apart from being recognised as a spirited young chap by the boss.
15:56My two favourite moments were both with Lawrence, actually. So it was the carbonara selling
16:01on the market in Greenwich. That was hilarious. And then it's got to be the lads day out in Isle
16:07of Wight.
16:07Goats. Goats.
16:09A little glass of wine. Yeah. Feed the goats. Clean the goats up. It's hilarious.
16:13Job done. Job done.
16:14That was great fun. Well, it was great having you and great watching you. Thank you so much.
16:18Kieran, everybody. Thank you.
16:23It is time to meet the candidate who faced her fear of cats, but unfortunately dropped the furball
16:28on the task. Here's the moment she left the boardroom for good.
16:31Um, Rothner, you sold nothing and at least Dan did sell 2,000 pieces. So you've been really
16:39impressive in this process, but I have to tell you that regretfully, your journey is over now.
16:48You're fired. Thank you very much for the opportunity. Good luck, Rothner. Thank you.
16:59It's Rothner. Hello. Welcome. Thank you for having me. Oh, got it. Got it. Before you were fired,
17:09Lord Sugar said to you, you've been very, very impressive. Was that, you know, bam to the wound?
17:14I mean, would have been nice if you hired me, but you know what? I'm actually really,
17:19really thankful he said that because, you know, throughout that whole process, you obviously
17:23want to make an impression and even had a compliment and then been fired.
17:26I think he really struggled though, didn't he? I think he really struggled between you and Dan.
17:31And really, he doesn't often say that to Candace. So the fact that he said it to you,
17:36I would take that as, I don't think he's ever said it to me, to be honest. I would take
17:39that
17:39as like something that I've told to my heart, really. Oh, thank you. No, it really was special.
17:45Obviously, you know, when you're told you're fired, it's just like a blur and anything that
17:50happened before and after, you're just in a state of shock. And so hearing that back and him say that,
17:55it actually sunk in a little bit. So yeah, it was a really nice little moment.
17:59Let's talk, Rothner, about the fateful task. Had Kieran not automatically been made project
18:04manager, would you have put yourself forward for this one? Yes, I would have put myself forward
18:08because I think, you know, when you've got a little bit of fear and at this stage of the process,
18:12it's all about wanting to maximise what's in your control. And like, obviously, we saw when
18:17I was building the catchy, like, Kieran kept saying, trust me, learnt my lesson from there.
18:21But I think if I was PM, I definitely would have like 100% said what I wanted there and
18:26then,
18:26and like not taking no for an answer. And it's hard to do so because when you're not PM,
18:30you don't want to come across as that person that's just constantly like stopping you from progressing.
18:35Yeah, you said that, that you wish you were kind of more of a hindrance. Was there a sense that
18:38maybe
18:40because pets, cats weren't your thing that you weren't able to follow the instincts that actually
18:45were leading you towards very sensible questions? Yeah, because I was with Dan and, you know,
18:51Kieran, who have pets, they've had pets all their life. And like, I haven't, I've got a fear of it.
18:56So for me, the least I know, the better it is for me. But then I think I wish I
18:59trusted my gut,
19:00because some of the things is pretty self explanatory, right? And I think because Kieran kept saying,
19:05trust me, trust me, I thought, you know what, maybe let me just trust him. And I guess that,
19:10that area. And when we were in that moment, I honestly wish I just trusted my gut. I really do.
19:15At least you knew that cats don't love cheese. And it was the mice that love cheese.
19:22Yeah, it was that moment. I was like, oh, we're doomed.
19:24Yeah, we're flying blind here, lads.
19:26So true.
19:28Honestly, I had a huge reality check. When he looked at me, he said cheese. I was like,
19:31Oh, dear. Sorry. Honestly, I think I would have done a better job. Sorry, Kieran.
19:36No, I think that's fair enough. Yeah.
19:38You hadn't been back in the boardroom since week one.
19:41Was it easier this time or tougher because you were so close to the final five?
19:48In some ways, it was a lot harder because you know, there was a lot of pressure riding on it.
19:51And,
19:51you know, final five is what all we ever spoke about in the house, you know, like,
19:55that's where everyone wants to be. And week one, obviously being brought back,
19:59it's so early on and you're kind of fighting for to be noticed, you know,
20:03to be able to show Lord Sugar what you're made of. And at this point,
20:05you've kind of shown Lord Sugar what you're made of. Now it's the business bit,
20:09which is the bit you really care about. So, yeah, it was really hard being in that boardroom.
20:13And I guess, you know, I knew it was do or die in that moment. And I tried.
20:18I tried. But yeah, it led to me being excited.
20:21Week one, you coming back into the restaurant, reminding everyone, you're like,
20:26we're fighting for our lives in there. It was such an iconic moment for me.
20:33And everyone was just like, oh, dear.
20:35I've just gotten serious. It was beautiful.
20:38Because it was dramatic. You know, that boardroom in Hong Kong, my God,
20:42I have never sweated more in my life. I didn't even sweat that much in the task
20:45than I did in there. And I came back and I was like, I don't know about you guys,
20:49but I survived something big there. And you do come back.
20:51And I think I had the added advantage in that moment to be over everybody else who wasn't in
20:56the boardroom. You know, it's really serious. You don't realize how serious the process is
21:00until you're sat in front of Lord Sugar fighting for your life.
21:03You are fighting for your life, guys, honestly.
21:05You were PM for The Flower Task. Again, like a really beautiful show, I think, of your capability,
21:12your ability to lead people. Was it natural for you, that leadership position?
21:17You know, what's really interesting is I think it came because I really enjoyed the task.
21:22And I love working with people. Like in my day job, you know, I work in mental health
21:25and well-being. And I think hearing people's opinions is really important. Obviously,
21:28I ended up going for what I wanted in the end. But it's important to listen to people.
21:33And I didn't really quite realize perhaps how good I am at leadership. Like having such a good win,
21:39it was reassuring for me more than anything that I'm capable and I can lead a team to victory.
21:43I mean, I just needed to believe in myself. And I think that you have a really lovely way
21:48about you as well, because you're not like overly aggressive or overly cocky. You just do it in a
21:53very lovely like way of making your views known with respect to other people. And, you know, I
22:01really thought that you came across really well in that. And I think everyone said you were a great
22:05project manager in that as well. Yeah, that was such a wholesome moment for me. But thank you.
22:09That really means a lot. And Tim said that you were a calming influence amongst the chaos.
22:15Was there ever a moment that we may not have seen where you thought you're going to lose your cool?
22:20Pretty much every week. I think I'm just really great at hiding it. Honestly, I think,
22:23I think where I, what's really important to me is even if you're panicking as a leader,
22:29it's so important that you don't show that panic. Swan, Swan.
22:32Yeah. Honestly, internally, like I am surprised you guys didn't see more of my panic around the
22:37cats. Like inside, I thought like my heart honestly was beating so fast, but I just thought if I show
22:43it, I'll believe that I'm actually panicking and then everyone else will start panicking.
22:47And it's so important that you don't spread that panic on and you contain it from within. So yeah,
22:51there were plenty of moments where I felt it, but I'm just glad you guys didn't get to see it.
22:56Well, it was felt certainly your, the loss of you in the house when you didn't return Karishma,
23:04particularly very, very emotional. Yeah. Was that difficult watching? I cried when I watched it.
23:11It was so hard to watch because honestly, she's like a sister to me. Like it's really rare in a
23:16competitive environment to really, really feel that, you know, sisterhood. And like, I found a piece
23:22of home within her and like what she said, the feeling was completely mutual. Yeah. With Karishma,
23:27I think she's just an absolute boss. I've seen this other soft little mellow side to her. I think
23:33that's so important. Like it just shows how human she is. And I think we both related on that. Like
23:37we can show everybody a cool, calm and collected, but then we'd get it back into our rooms and then
23:41we'd have a little cry and be like, this was stressful. That was stressful. And it's so nice
23:44to share that together. So absolutely love her. That was brilliant. You were an absolute joy
23:49to watch. So thank you so, so much. It is time for boardroom bangers. Brace yourselves. The part
23:56of the show where our guests provide the soundtrack to the task. Claudine, what have you gone for?
24:00So I have gone for something that bearing in mind, I was looking at the cat tree thinking,
24:07what on earth, this is what I've gone for. Oh, I've trashed that one in karaoke a couple of times,
24:24let me tell you. Banger, isn't it? Okay, Owain, what have you gone for? Well, for me, the thing that
24:31stood out during this episode was the fine grasp on the French language or not. So I've gone for this.
24:52Pasha should have let the music do the talking. I think absolutely so, yeah. Let's move on our final
24:59five. Now set to face a grilling, it is time for the interviews and I've got a little exclusive.
25:06Um, looking back on my plan, I think I should, um, I know I need to allocate a lot more
25:10money.
25:10And well, how much more? Um, I reckon that's going to cost around 150,000. So why did you put
25:1650,000?
25:17Um, that was... Because you've got no idea really what you're doing, have you? Correct.
25:20You're not going to produce a drink for 50,000. You haven't even got a recipe. You haven't even got
25:25a manufacturer. Yes, I agree and I... Look, you're good at your day job. Do that. Try and build the
25:30boozy bar up. Forget the drink. You're never going to do it. Okay. Okay.
25:37Oh, God. That couldn't go any worse. Oh, that was brutal. I'm shaking and sweating.
25:47That broke my heart. Little, little cute Priya. That is savage. Yeah. She's brutal. Honestly.
25:56Yeah. Now, Claudine, up until this point, I think candidates, they can make excuses,
26:01can't they, that certain tasks aren't suited to their skill set or their experience. But now there's
26:06absolutely nowhere to hide. How tough is the interview process? But please say that's as
26:11bad as it gets. It is a tough, tough process. We get 45 minutes to an hour with each of
26:18them,
26:18and there are four of us. And, you know, the interviewers will find things that even though
26:22they'll think we've covered everything, we know our business, we will always find things that they
26:28haven't thought of. It's also interesting that obviously when we interview, that is the first
26:34time we've seen them. So we haven't seen any of this. We get to know like how many they've won
26:41or
26:41lost, but we don't know how they've performed in the process. So we are literally seeing them
26:47and only meeting them or knowing anything about them the minute that they walk in that door. So
27:02that's so interesting because as a viewer, you know, at that stage, you've built up this kind of
27:08idea of the person as a whole in your head, whereas you just go in there and you have to
27:13base it purely
27:14on what they have for you. Absolutely. Wow. That is a wrap, gang. Thank you so much to my brilliant
27:19guests, Claudine Owyne Rothner and of course, Ciaran. Yay! Thank you. Don't forget to tune in next
27:27time for more Unfinished Business on BBC Two, iPlayer or BBC Sounds straight after the
27:32Apprentice, when we'll be discussing which candidates just missed out on a place in the final.
27:38I'm Angela Scanlon. Goodbye.
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