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00:00I talk about Carlin. You know, he's my kind of guy, but he could never get elected if he ran.
00:05People won't vote for him because he's an atheist. You know how much bad shit has happened because of faith?
00:13Rock, metal, prog, and everything in between.
00:16Welcome to this episode of Talkin' Rock with Meltdown.
00:20Don't forget to follow the audio-only Talkin' Rock podcast on all podcast platforms.
00:25And now, it's time for today's conversation. Here's Meltdown.
00:30Hey everybody, it's Meltdown. Thanks so much for checking out this interview with Triumph frontman Rick Emmett.
00:35Not only is he a legend, he's also one of the nicest guys.
00:38Why do I say that? Well, this is part of an interview I did where the computer crashed not once,
00:44but twice.
00:45Rick was so nice, he hung on the line with me for a few minutes while I got things back
00:49in order.
00:49And then he agreed to do another interview with me to kind of finish this one a couple weeks later.
00:55That's where I screwed up and gave him the wrong Zoom link.
00:58Rick, and that's a whole other story.
01:00But Rick, if you're watching this, I do apologize.
01:03We'll see you at the end of May at Freedom Hill out here at Michigan Lottery Amphitheater in southeast Michigan.
01:08In the meantime, everybody should go check out Triumph.
01:10And of course, Rick's new book he has.
01:12It's a book of poetry, which we talk about.
01:15But I had to ask him about hockey first.
01:18Did you happen to see what happened a couple weeks ago in Milan, Italy?
01:21Did you happen to watch that?
01:24Refresh my memory.
01:27Gold medal hockey.
01:30Oh, oh, that.
01:32Yeah.
01:34Well, yes, of course.
01:37You know, I'm a good Canadian.
01:39And so I was watching and it was heartbreaking for us and, you know, lovely for you guys.
01:46But, you know, there's a thing, too, about sports and stuff.
01:53And I write about this a little bit in I was aiming at it when I was writing in the
01:58Leaning Into It poetry book.
02:00But the stuff I've been writing a little bit more lately has gotten into it, which is the idea of
02:06pride and humility and how, you know, there's certain things that institutionalized pride.
02:14Oh, we have to have, you know, pride in our country, pride in our symbols, our flag, our, you know,
02:21the maple leaf in my case, you know.
02:23And I get it and I do like it.
02:26And, you know, my guitar straps, I don't know if you can see this here, like, well, I'm going out
02:31on tour, like I'm going to wear it.
02:33I'm going to have a certain amount of pride.
02:35Sure.
02:35But then at a certain point, it becomes, now it's not so good.
02:41Now, you know, now you're making yourself look like a bit of an asshole if you rub it too much
02:48in other people's faces, you know.
02:50And so this is a thing where the difference between Canadians and Americans, it might become fairly obvious because, like,
02:59you know who I really liked in hockey?
03:01I really liked Stevie Eisenman.
03:03Yeah.
03:04He would score a goal and he would not even raise his stick.
03:08He would just look at the other guys on his line and kind of give him a little fist pump,
03:11like, yeah, all right.
03:12Okay, let's get back to business.
03:14And I go, man, that's my kind of guy.
03:17Like, the kind of guys that celebrate.
03:20You know what I hate?
03:20I hate when we're watching this World Baseball Classics now.
03:25Yeah.
03:26And a guy hits a single and they act like they've won the World Series, you know.
03:30And you go, you know, there's still a lot of game to go here, buddy.
03:34You know, like, why don't you just settle down and just, you know, do your job, you know.
03:40Take pride in your job.
03:42Enjoy your job.
03:43Absolutely.
03:44But, you know, how much do you need to be rubbing it in other people's faces in order for you
03:49to be going, no, this is how I'm having a good time, you know.
03:52So, all things being said, you know, Milan and the Pachuk brothers, like, those guys, they're not really my kind
04:01of people, you know.
04:04All right, fair enough.
04:05I mean, you know, of course, you know, you're a hockey guy.
04:08I'm a hockey guy as well.
04:09And I just had to, you know, ask.
04:11I think when I talked to Gil last, it was right before the, I think it was that week of,
04:16and they hadn't played yet.
04:17But, look, I was up early that morning.
04:19Actually, I played that morning.
04:21We actually skated earlier than we normally do so we could all get back and, you know, to the bars
04:26and watch the games.
04:27But, anyways, I just brought it up.
04:29So, Leaning Into It, that comes out on April 7th.
04:32Now, if I'm not, correct me if I'm wrong, this book kind of got its inclination, its start during COVID.
04:38Is that correct?
04:39Yes.
04:39Yeah, I did a lot of the writing then.
04:42And so there's this weird thing about books.
04:45They're even worse than albums.
04:46I used to hate, you know, the triumph days when you'd make a record, but it would take, you know,
04:51months before it would finally come out.
04:53And then you're touring on it.
04:54But you're going, well, I'm already writing new songs, you know.
04:58So poetry, it's like, oh, my God, I wrote these things, you know, three years ago, four years ago.
05:04And they're finally coming out.
05:05And you go, won't it have lost some of its topicality and its currency?
05:10And, you know, like all of those kinds of things.
05:11I go, well, you know, and my editor will say, no, no, when you write a poem, it's for all
05:16time.
05:17You know, I'm going, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
05:20So, but, yes, it was back then.
05:23And it was, Trump was having his first go around.
05:26And so there's a little bit of that.
05:28And, you know, it informs the book.
05:30And then I was saying to my editor, yeah, I don't know, this might not date itself well.
05:35And then he got, oh, he got back in.
05:38I was like, okay, let's put that book up.
05:43Because, you know, I think it's got something to say about where we're at, you know.
05:48So, anyhow.
05:49Yeah.
05:50I got a chance to read through a little bit of it.
05:53I have to admit, I'm not much of a poetry guy per se.
05:55And a little bit of it was a little perplexing to me, just because I don't really live in that
06:00world.
06:01But for somebody like me, kind of explain it, you know, as best you can, like explain this book to
06:07someone.
06:10Well, the easiest way in is through the title.
06:12So it's called Leaning Into It.
06:13So what is it?
06:15You know, like when I wrote my memoir, it was laying on the line.
06:19And you say, okay, what is it?
06:20You know, what is it that you're laying on the line?
06:22And you go, well, it's truth, it's honesty, that's the it.
06:26So now when I'm leaning into it, sometimes we're just leaving the SH off the word.
06:34Because, you know, there's an awful lot of stuff that I find very first, like, you know, I'll be honest
06:42with you.
06:42I make art, you know, I make commercial art.
06:47I write songs.
06:48I write books.
06:49I hope people will buy them, you know.
06:52But I do art because I'm trying to express things that are my frustrations about not just the world, but
07:01the people that inhabit it.
07:02You know, like, I like people.
07:04I like to sing a song and have people go, hey, we like your song.
07:08We want to sing along.
07:09Great.
07:10I'm hoping for that.
07:13But, man, there's stuff that I put into the book where it's like George Carlin goes, man, you get a
07:18whole bunch of people together.
07:19The more people that you get together, the stupider they become.
07:24Yeah, the masses are asses.
07:25Yeah, and he goes, there's one of his quotes that I love.
07:28He goes, I want you to imagine the average guy, just the average guy, and then think about how stupid
07:34he is.
07:35And then imagine that half the people are stupider than he is.
07:40And he goes, OK, like, in leaning into it, I talk about Carlin and say, you know, he's my kind
07:48of guy, but he could never get elected if he ran.
07:54You know, he'll never become a politician on my behalf because, you know, people won't vote for him because he's
08:01an atheist.
08:02You know, Bertrand Russell, my kind of guy, my kind of mind, you know.
08:07But, you know, most people would go, oh, he's godless.
08:12That's terrible.
08:13You know, that's a horrible thing.
08:15And you go, oh.
08:15But this whole thing about God and, you know, countries and flags and borders and then human beings that are
08:24deciding, this is my turf.
08:25This is what I believe.
08:27This is my faith.
08:29And you just go, oh, OK.
08:31You know how much bad shit has happened because of faith?
08:35Like, you know, I don't mind you having your own beliefs.
08:40Just don't try to, you know, dump them on me.
08:43So I write poetry because I'm trying to address those kinds of things.
08:48And when you're leaning into it, you're leaning into the wind that's blowing in your face from people that they
08:55shouldn't be making so much noise.
08:57They shouldn't, you know, they really shouldn't.
09:00They haven't really thought it through.
09:02Anyhow.
09:03Yeah.
09:04And hence the cover of it as well.
09:05And, you know, look, you know, you've done everything.
09:09You've sold millions of records.
09:10You've made your money.
09:11You toured the world, the whole thing.
09:12And at this stage in life, I mean, it kind of maybe even just gives you a little bit of
09:17a luxury to put something out like this.
09:19Like maybe this is something that's been brewing with you for a while.
09:22Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I'd want to be, you know, looked at as somebody that's, oh, you
09:27know, he's a dilettante.
09:28You know, he's doing this because he can.
09:32Like, I think the truth of it is I do it because I have to.
09:37Like, I really feel like, you know, there's a difference between your vocation, which is your work and your avocation,
09:43which is your calling.
09:44And I feel like my avocation is to be a writer.
09:49And a writer is going to write whether I'm selling a million or I'm selling nothing.
09:56You know, I'm going to journal.
09:59I'm going to do the things that I do.
10:01And I do think that there was a large chunk of my life where I was pursuing, you know, being
10:09on stages and riding in airplanes and, you know, doing all that stuff, playing guitar.
10:14And I love playing guitar, but I also love writing.
10:19And poetry gives me a way to be able to express myself, you know, not on six strings on a
10:25fretboard, but in a way that, you know, and not necessarily singing.
10:29Although, you know, poetry is its own kind of singing.
10:35It finds its own rhythms.
10:37It's not songs, but it is, in a way, it's, you know, you're making these things.
10:45I try to fit them onto one page.
10:47I don't want to make it so that I'm giving people too much to be able to digest.
10:52I try to organize it into sections and go, there's a reason I did this so that it becomes a
10:58little more digestible, a little easier to consume.
11:02And I realized that, you know, people go, Rick Emmett.
11:05Oh, yeah, he's the guy from Triumph, right?
11:07So he's got a poetry book.
11:08Okay, I'm not just like you.
11:10You go, I'm not much into poetry, but okay, you know, I'm going to interview the guy.
11:15I guess I'll give it a look.
11:16I know that there's going to be some of a lot of that, you know, but I'm also hoping that
11:21there's people that are actually really into poetry that are going to go, no, no, this guy's legit, you know,
11:28in the same way that people when Gord Downey of Tragically Hip, they would go, no, the guy's legit.
11:32Leonard Cohen is probably the greatest Canadian example of all, where an extremely legit poet who then was, you know,
11:40wasn't such a great singer, but, you know, he won Male Vocalist of the Year.
11:46Yeah.
11:46So, like, I think there was one, there's a famous thing where Cohen was the record company guy was saying,
11:53Leonard, we know you're good.
11:54We just don't know if you're actually any good.
12:02We just don't know if you're good.
12:26I think this year it said, like, happy birthday, kid, you're getting old.
12:29And I said to him, I go, I'm going to interview Rick Hammond.
12:31He's, you know, he's, he just put out, he's put out a poetry book and my dad's like, yeah, well,
12:34that just flowed out of me.
12:35Like, you know, that whole thing.
12:36So birthday was yesterday.
12:38You share a birthday with Phil X.
12:40Yes.
12:40I was just about to bring it up.
12:42Yeah.
12:42Yeah.
12:43Yeah.
12:43So Phil, we were all wishing him happy birthday yesterday.
12:47And he turned 60.
12:49So, yeah, he's getting up there now, you know, but he doesn't act like he's 60.
12:54Phil acts like he's about, you know, 22.
12:58Yeah.
12:58Just out of a frat house.
13:01And let me ask you this.
13:03I don't know.
13:03Did you know Phil back in the day or have you recently kind of met him or?
13:07I knew of him.
13:08He had reputation, obviously.
13:10And then there was a weird thing that happened where, and I just did an interview with this guy, Jim
13:13Norris, that used to run Canadian Musician Magazine.
13:16And Jim, after I'd left Triumph and then Phil had replaced me, he was doing some kind of a guitar
13:21seminar clinic thingy in Toronto.
13:25And he invited me and I said, yeah, yeah, I'll be there.
13:28And he said, listen, this could be really awkward, but Phil X is going to come too.
13:33And I went, that's fine.
13:34That's perfectly great.
13:35You know, you know, I'd never met him personally, but when I did meet him and I was shaking his
13:42hand, I pulled him in close.
13:43I go, Phil, I just want to wish you all the luck in the world because there's nobody on the
13:47planet Earth that knows what you're stepping into more than me.
13:50So, you know, good luck to you.
13:53And so, you know, I've always liked him and respected his talent and his ability.
13:59And it's just a great joy to get to play with him.
14:03And I should mention Todd Kearns and Brent Fitz because those guys have been out with Slash and Alice Cooper.
14:09And, like, these guys are, you know, hardened road warriors, but they're, you know, they're younger than we are.
14:18And they're very gifted.
14:19And I go, this is a beautiful safety net to have.
14:23Well, there you go.
14:24I was expecting more of an interview with Rick Emmett.
14:26It's completely my fault.
14:28By the way, like I said earlier, Triumph is going to be going out on tour this year.
14:32I can hardly wait.
14:33Rick's new book, Leaning Into It, drops on April 7.
14:35Go grab his book, one of the nicest guys in the business.
14:39And, yeah, sometimes technology gets in the way.
14:42Rick, I owe you one.
14:43Check out Talking Rock with Meltdown on all podcast platforms and WRIF.com.
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