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00:00Maybe we'll avoid a labor stoppage because they won't need a salary cap.
00:03Everyone, all the good young players will be signed.
00:06Keep dreaming, buddy. Keep dreaming. That's not happening.
00:10All right.
00:10John, the Yankees pitching is off grade and under one ERA through the first four games of the season.
00:17Some expectations certainly met there at the highest level.
00:20Their pitching coach, Matt Blake, is joining us this week.
00:22Two great reasons to talk to Matt Blake right now.
00:250.76 ERA for the Yankees, and he is a very, very smart guy.
00:31So really looking forward to it.
00:32And there's obviously because of the way they're pitching and what's on the way with guys like Cole and Rodan
00:37and Schmidt
00:38and maybe some of their young guys like Varanhe, a lot of people to talk about and why they're being
00:43so successful.
00:44You and I are going to talk some ABS and early impressions of the Mets and Yankees.
00:49We'll play hit and error at the end if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and
00:53John Hill.
00:59Well, John, we've got some regular season games under our belt.
01:03Cliche alert.
01:04And I think one of the â I do think the biggest story of the first week is automated ball
01:10strike, ABS,
01:12and watching who's aggressive with it, who's not, who's using it, how they're using it, and what spots,
01:18which umpires are kind of getting a little humiliated here early in the season,
01:23what the implications of that might be going forward.
01:26John, as usual, I have plenty of thoughts on something, so let me let you go through this.
01:32What are your early thoughts on ABS?
01:34I mean, I love it.
01:35You know, it's extra competition and debate and discussion.
01:39You know, I know there will be some critics who will say that it's slowing the game down a little.
01:44You know, it doesn't take long to get the result, but, you know, I think guys are thinking about it
01:49a little bit.
01:51You know, I love it.
01:53I know that there will be umpires who may not love it.
01:55I think there'll be â from what I understand, there was a catcher who was called out by his analytics
02:00team
02:01and over seven alleged strikes that he didn't challenge, he said basically to him, with profanity,
02:08you try catching 95 â 98 and umpiring too.
02:12So, you know, there are going to be guys who are under the gun over this.
02:17It's a big deal, and the Yankees have done well with it.
02:21The teams that do well with it are going to benefit.
02:24And it's an extra piece of strategy that I think is interesting and keeps people alert.
02:30Yeah, and I'm assuming when you say people alert, you're talking about the people on the field.
02:35I actually think there's a real benefit in the crowd.
02:38Yes, too.
02:39People are â like, you know, we've, John, now got used to crowds drifting as they kind of scroll on
02:46their phone.
02:46And look, this is something that is engaging people and getting them to talk, I think, a little about the
02:51game also.
02:52Would you challenge here?
02:54Hey, do you keep on the other second challenge?
02:57Which players is this?
02:58So I just think â and when that â you know, like that, like, countdown, 3-2-1, there is
03:04some anticipation.
03:05You do want â this is an entertainment.
03:06It is exciting, right?
03:08You saw the Eugenio Suarez, right, with the two in a row that he got.
03:12He got quite an ovation.
03:14It was like he'd hit a home run.
03:16So, you know, it can be exciting.
03:18I don't know if that's going to wear off to some degree, but certainly the crowd is into it.
03:23The guys in the dugout are into it, and, you know, it can affect games.
03:28There's no question about that.
03:30Certainly five calls, Esther Brooke missed.
03:32Six calls, CB Buckner missed.
03:35They were changed.
03:36I think it's good for accuracy, too.
03:38Beyond the fact that it's more interesting, we want the games to be accurate.
03:42Now, not all the calls are corrected, as the analytics team pointed out to the catcher, but at least some
03:49of them are now.
03:50Yeah, I think that's a good outcome.
03:53And, John, look, I've made this comparison in a few places.
03:56I'll make it on our podcast is if you watch a football game, the people who know football best, this
04:03is not me, will tell you what's happening on a line, on the lines, especially the offensive line, is the
04:08most important thing in the game that nobody kind of like watches or understands what's going on.
04:13I think count leverage is like that in our sport.
04:16Like, we see the difference, and by far, the counts so far through the first weekend, by far, the counts
04:25that were challenged the most were 0-0, 1-1, and 2-2.
04:29In other words, which way do you turn a count?
04:31Does 0-0 become 1-0 or 0-1?
04:34That's worth several hundred points of OPS.
04:36Does 1-1 become 2-1 or 1-2?
04:39Several hundred points of OPS.
04:40And to your point, I think the teams with hitters who are good at this or catchers in particular who
04:46are good at turning counts around are going to have kind of a plus-minus effect over the season that
04:54will be truly beneficial in the way that teams that were really good at stealing strikes with framing the last
05:01few years, as that's become better and more understood, has it?
05:05That, to me, is going to be the biggest impact on the season.
05:09I mean, the count is huge.
05:12I think 3-2 would be one to challenge as well.
05:15But certainly when the counts are even, that's enormous.
05:20And certainly with the situation of the game, are there runners on?
05:24How many outs?
05:25What's the score?
05:26There's a number of factors, and it's all strategic.
05:29And I think it adds to the interest of the game.
05:32I mean, I think it's, I don't know, do stars get more leeway to, I mean, to challenge, might depend
05:39on the team or the guy's personality.
05:41I think Trout's challenged four, right?
05:43And Roman Anthony's challenged three times.
05:45I don't know.
05:46I think if a guy's good at it, that's how we should determine who gets the challenge.
05:51I have a feeling Jazz Chisholm probably wants to challenge everyone.
05:56I think he knows which ones to challenge, though, right?
05:59It's interesting.
06:00His name stands out to me because when I was asked, when I was in Yankee camp late and I
06:03was asking their people, who do you think will be particularly good at this?
06:06His name came up.
06:08They said that he gets, he and Judge were the two guys who got the most balls called strikes for
06:16the Yankees.
06:17Now, Judge makes sense, right?
06:19Like that low pitch, which is a strike for everyone, is actually underneath Judge's knees.
06:23But Chisholm, I don't know, Laura, like umps not liking that they're thinking he's stylish or whatever's going on there.
06:30Oh, yeah, I believe that.
06:31He's getting bad calls.
06:33The fact is, if he's good at it, it will have some advantage over 162 games for him.
06:39Yeah, I think he's loving it.
06:41He looks very enthusiastic about it.
06:42And he should be, it will play to his advantage.
06:46I would think he would be one of the best at it.
06:50It'll be interesting to see what Juan Soto does because he's supposed to be the expert on the strike zone,
06:54right?
06:54I don't think he's challenging anything yet.
06:56They haven't thrown a lot of strikes to him and he's hit them when they've thrown them.
07:01So, he's the one who's the most expert.
07:05But Mike Trout has led the league in walks several times and on base and whatever.
07:10So, shouldn't be surprised that he's good at it and it's benefiting him.
07:14And, I mean, I don't think that's the reason.
07:17He looks like he's back or might be back.
07:20But it certainly doesn't hurt.
07:22Yeah.
07:23John, you mentioned, we mentioned Chisholm.
07:25We mentioned Soto.
07:26Both New York teams opened 3-1 this season.
07:28Why don't we begin with the Mets who were home for that first weekend.
07:33They're now in St. Louis.
07:34They won the opener of that series.
07:37John, if I were looking at it in a 3-1 start, I thought Luis Robert, good.
07:44Nolan McClain, pretty good.
07:46Clay Holmes, I think that was an underappreciated story last year.
07:51He kind of, again, you know, this is a guy who has, since he's joined them, a 115 ERA plus.
07:56That's pretty good, really solid back-end starter.
08:01Conversely, Bo Bichette got booed on Sunday at City Field, which I just, John, I think you know how I
08:09feel about social media.
08:10I talked to you about it and stuff.
08:12Like, I do think it's made, like, a group of people want to be first, meanest, and dumbest, quickest.
08:19And, like, there's this desire to be booing this guy on the first weekend.
08:25I mean, look, we saw, we're old enough, John.
08:29We covered Roberto Alomar and it didn't work here.
08:31We covered Jason Bay, it didn't work here.
08:34Lindor and Beltran both struggled in their first year.
08:36So, is it conceivable Bo Bichette is going to have problems this year?
08:39Sure.
08:40But he's 28 and a great hitter.
08:43Can he get more than a weekend to have a booing judge?
08:47Yeah, two things.
08:48I think it's idiotic to boo him at this juncture after three games.
08:53You know, give the guy a chance and a break.
08:55But we don't have the monopoly on idiocy here.
09:00Cal Raleigh, who had 60 home runs, was booed in Seattle, right?
09:04I mean, Aaron Judge was booed in spring training, which is ridiculous.
09:09That's practice.
09:10That doesn't even count.
09:11I guess, you know, you fly down, you pay for the hotel, you expect a home run, I guess.
09:16I don't know.
09:18I find it to be ridiculous.
09:19I am encouraged by his reaction.
09:23You were there.
09:23I was not there.
09:24I watched it, though.
09:25And I thought he showed some humor, saying, I can't believe it took this long.
09:29I think that's a joke, right?
09:31It took three games.
09:34But I thought that was a positive reaction.
09:36But I will say this.
09:38He better have a good year, because he may only be here one year, right?
09:41Because he's got the $42 million contract, plus he gets rewarded $5 million for opting out.
09:47Now, if he has a year like, you know, Lindor did not have a great year.
09:50Now, Soto ultimately had a great year, even as a bad start.
09:55Soto had 241 in April last year, and he got some booze, right?
09:59And then he ended up finishing third for MVP.
10:01Well, yeah.
10:02Yeah, and they're going to have to live with Soto for 15 years.
10:05So think ahead, people.
10:06But in any case, it didn't affect them.
10:08He ended up having a very good year, excellent year.
10:10I shouldn't say very good.
10:11He was third in MVP.
10:13It's excellent.
10:15But Lindor, who's been a great Met, did not have a good first year.
10:19We need a first good year.
10:20The Mets need a good first year from Bichette.
10:23Maybe that's why they feel there's pressure on him, because it does feel like there's a pretty
10:28good chance it's one and done for him unless they can extend him.
10:32So, John, can I dig down on what I actually think could be an issue for the 2026 Mets,
10:38especially early on here?
10:39For a team with a $380 million payroll, there's some dead spots deep on their team.
10:45You know, they lost the game on Sunday with Richard Lovelady on the mound, a game where
10:51Sean Minaya pitched, and he didn't give up a run.
10:54But three of the seven guys he faced got on.
10:57He had a throwing error.
10:59He still didn't crack 90 after all the talk of the adrenaline of the season.
11:03We'll get him there.
11:04And I felt like they're running away from using him as opposed to running to use him.
11:10Like, oh, he's going to be a big part of this.
11:12You know, I always think, don't tell me, show me.
11:16I haven't seen any sign of that.
11:19Mark Vientos, is there an actual role?
11:22I guess when Liberatore pitches against them in the last game of the series as a lefty for
11:28the first time, we'll see Vientos start.
11:31But it feels like not a great bench player if the only thing you're going to do is pinch
11:36hit against lefty pitching.
11:37That feels like one of the smallest jobs you can have in the sport.
11:41If you're not going to give fielding or base running help, John, for a team with a big
11:47payroll, there's some depth stuff there that I wonder.
11:50And some of it, maybe when A.J.
11:51Minter gets healthy, some of it begins to solve stuff.
11:55What do you think?
11:56Yeah, Minter's certainly going to help.
11:57Raleigh's looked very good.
11:59So if you have two great lefty relievers, that's a plus.
12:02Obviously, that bullpen is not really that deep for a $380 million payroll.
12:07But that's, you know, every team's got issues, except maybe the Dodgers.
12:12But generally, every team, you could point to something.
12:15Yeah, that's a small role for Vientos, which is why they considered and offered him in trades
12:21to be the even DH against lefties.
12:26Most of the pitchers are right-handed.
12:28So it's a pretty small role for him.
12:32You know, it's unfortunate.
12:34I had such a big year a couple years ago.
12:36I kind of wish for him that he'd go somewhere and get to play and hit, because I do think
12:40he is a very good hitter.
12:42And he's probably a good enough hitter to be a DH, a full-time DH for somebody else.
12:47But I mean, he's had a good attitude about it.
12:50You know, I wouldn't consider that a dead spot.
12:54I do think the back of the bullpen is really the issue, though, this team.
12:58You know, Yankees also, John, off to a 3-1 start.
13:02We'll talk a lot about their pitching.
13:04Our guest is coming up next is Matt Blake, their pitching coach.
13:07They actually haven't scored early.
13:10Again, it's only four games.
13:12I suspect that Aaron Judge will be in competition for MVP again.
13:18But still, a lot of strikeouts, a lot of lack of batting average at the bottom of a lineup.
13:23And any thoughts about kind of how that's composed right now?
13:28Yeah.
13:28Oh, I will second that.
13:30Then Aaron Judge will be in competition for MVP.
13:32I'm not going to...
13:33Old statements by me and you.
13:34That's not going out on a limb there.
13:37Yeah.
13:37No, I mean, they scored the most runs last year.
13:39They're running it back.
13:42Stanton is now healthy.
13:44Even if he can't open a bag of chips, he certainly can hit.
13:47I am not concerned at all about the offense.
13:50I think Rice will be great once he gets going.
13:52We know Judge will be great once he gets going.
13:54Same with Jazz.
13:56You know, it's a tough assignment to be out in San Francisco.
14:00Those are two of the toughest parks to hit in.
14:03And it was cold yesterday in Seattle.
14:06Right.
14:06Those are tough parks and tough pitchers, right?
14:09I mean, those are good pitchers.
14:11Webb, Ray, and certainly last night with Castillo.
14:17So I'm not concerned in the least about the Yankee offense or, frankly, the Yankees.
14:22I mean, they're pretty...
14:24You know, if they got one more great reliever, and I've said this on here 20 times, I wish
14:29they had signed Diaz instead of, you know, not to pick on Grisham, but I felt they could
14:35have lived with Bellinger in center and Dominguez on the team.
14:41You know, one more great reliever.
14:42It didn't have to be Diaz.
14:43I think the team would be pretty fantastic.
14:47And it is pretty darn good as it is.
14:49Yeah, you know, John, again, we're going to drill down on the pitching with Matt Blake.
14:55But I wonder if we should say something about it first.
14:58It is like an 076 ERA through four games.
15:02Obviously, that's going to get a lot larger over the coming weeks.
15:06And it's possible that San Francisco, where they played three of the games, is going to
15:10have one of the poorer offenses in the sport.
15:12The only reason I highlight it is, I do think we think their lineup, which is, again, I expect
15:20it to be an 800-run lineup that finishes in the top five in runs per game.
15:24But I do think the strength of this team is its pitching, especially its starting pitching.
15:29And a lot of that manifested early, you know, first time around with Freed and Schlittler
15:34and both Warren and Weathers being good.
15:36Not great, but certainly both of them were good and they showed you their stuff with a lot
15:41of coming attractions of Rodon and Cole and Hill and maybe Schmidt at some point and LeGrand
15:46Hay, et cetera.
15:47Like, it does feel like the Bronx Bombers' strength is their rotation.
15:53It should be, certainly when they get Cole and Rodon back, right?
15:58And it's a great debate.
16:00And it's great for the team that we're able to debate.
16:03This is a team that led the league in runs, led the majors in runs last year.
16:07And it's now debatable whether the rotation is the best part of this team.
16:14I think once they get everybody back, I think that's, you're probably right.
16:18I think that probably is the strength of the team and could be one of their best rotations
16:25ever.
16:26You're right.
16:27The Bronx Bombers, they're known for hitting.
16:29If you're going to name the greatest Yankees of all time, it's, you know, the top five are
16:34going to be hitters one way or another.
16:36You know, if you want to, I don't know who the fifth is, if you want to put Yogi in
16:40there
16:40or Jeter or Judge or whomever, they're all going to be hitters.
16:45Obviously, Whitey Ford is an all-time great, but they've had so many great hitters.
16:51That's been their legacy.
16:52That's their history.
16:53The lineup has been the strength of the Yankees throughout their existence, it seems like.
17:00But yeah, it's, at this point, you can look at it and say, if you've got Cole, Freed,
17:05and Schlittler, and Rodon is your number four starter, that could be the best rotation in
17:10baseball and the best rotation that they've ever had.
17:13You know, it does say something about the great players in Yankee history that we could
17:16get to four, five, six, and the only guy who was ever elected into the Hall of Fame
17:20unanimously, Mariano Rivera.
17:22We're having trouble figuring out maybe where he fits into a top five, six, seven, eight
17:27with Ford and Barrett.
17:29Yeah, I've got this bias against relievers.
17:31I mean, I put them in the top 10, but, you know, I still haven't voted for some of these
17:36Hall of Fame relievers who get in with 80% of the votes.
17:39So, you know, maybe it's me.
17:41But yeah, I guess there is a general bias against relievers, too.
17:46He's obviously the greatest relief pitcher of all time.
17:49That's not up for debate.
17:51But for the top five, what would you say?
17:54Would you put number five, would it be Jeter, Judge, or Barrett?
17:59I guess those are the, I mean, obviously you've got Ruth, you've got Gehrig, Mantle,
18:04DiMaggio, not necessarily in that order, though obviously Ruth is going to be one.
18:07I guess those are the top four.
18:09Who would you put five there?
18:11I guess it's Jeter, Barrett, or Judge.
18:14Yeah, I mean, I, you know, like it's not all his fault, but the lack of a championship
18:19for Judge makes me put him behind Jeter and Barrett, you know.
18:24Fair.
18:24That's probably fair.
18:26He's probably a better player than both of them.
18:29But if you're going to talk about all-time Yankee and the whole thing is about how many
18:33championships have you won, yeah, you probably have to put him sixth and debate Yogi and Derek
18:40for five.
18:42But I also put him seventh, right?
18:45Yeah.
18:45You know, you can make a pretty good argument.
18:47I mean, it's not just all the championships and Yogi was a championship machine, obviously
18:51different time where you kind of went straight to the world after the regular season.
18:55But, like, do we get to five catchers in history who are better than Barrett?
19:00Do we get to five shortstops in history who are better than Jeter?
19:03No, none.
19:04So, like, at the championships, greatness and historic, up-the-middle, great players.
19:10And I think that combination still puts them ahead of Judge, for me, with all that Judge
19:16has accomplished in his nine, ten years as a Yankee.
19:19It doesn't include the rings, and he's had some really poor postseason.
19:23So, it puts aâI mean, I think he's in a discussion for me.
19:27I think Rivera was the biggest difference-maker in a dynasty.
19:31So, I kind of think of him as just more than a relief pitcher.
19:35So, Iâ
19:35So, is he five for you?
19:37Youâ
19:37No, I put Jeter, Barrett, and then I think the next guy might be Moe, and then Judge if
19:43I were doing it.
19:43Okay, fair.
19:44Not bad.
19:45I could go with that.
19:47You know, justâ
19:49Winning justâ
19:49I could see that.
19:50âis a ton for me.
19:52Look, we're talking Rivera, so we're talking Yankee pitching.
19:54We'll talk about all of it.
19:56They got a lot of interesting guys on the roster.
19:58They got a lot of guys who are on the injured list and are on a trajectory to get back,
20:02and
20:02they have some young pitchers who are exciting, some people.
20:05We'll talk about all of them with Matt Blake, who joins us next on the show.
20:14John and I are so happy to be joined by, thankfully, a frequent guest of our show.
20:20Boy, time flies, Matt.
20:21Matt, sixth year as the Yankee pitching coach, and it could hardly have started better.
20:27Your team, through four games, has an 076 ERA with lots of people looking good and lots
20:33of people on the way, and I'm sure we're going to talk about all that.
20:36But first, Matt, thanks so much for joining us on the show.
20:39Absolutely.
20:39Thanks for having me on.
20:41You know, Matt, I wonder if the place to start isâyou guys have become a little bit
20:45of a factory, developing some pitching.
20:48Luis Hill was the AL Rookie of the Year in 24.
20:51Will Warren was, you know, a league average starter who was very durable last year.
20:55Cam Schlittler was a lot better than that last year.
20:57It looks like something.
20:58You have some in LeGran Hay and maybe Elmar Rodriguez, some stuff coming.
21:03Why have the Yankees gotten so good at this?
21:06Good question.
21:07I think we've got a lot of good people throughout the system, which helps a lot.
21:11Sam Breen leads our minor league department and partners with us at the major league level.
21:15So there's a lot of continuity in just the systems and our processes, which helps a lot.
21:21And then both our front office and our scouting departments, you know, partner in.
21:26And we have a pretty good identity as far as kind of what we develop well.
21:29And they do a good job of getting those guys in numbers and allow us to, you know, work
21:35with guys that fit our system well.
21:37Cam Schlittler, I love this guy.
21:41Amazing uber confidence for a seventh rounder out of nowhere.
21:45Is this going to continue?
21:47Because he looks like the best pitcher on earth right now.
21:49Well, he's not out of nowhere.
21:51He's out of Northeastern.
21:52All right.
21:53I'm sorry.
21:54You're a New Englander.
21:56I'm sorry.
21:56I'm a New Yorker.
21:57Partial to that.
21:58Okay.
21:59But no, it's been an impressive run for him.
22:02Obviously, you know, just your stock college right-hander to a certain degree coming out
22:07of college, you know, low 90s, but some projection.
22:10And, but a lot of times it's, you know, not everybody fulfills that.
22:13And, you know, you might project a body to develop some more velocity.
22:16But I think he did a nice job, you know, taking feedback from our group, getting stronger,
22:21working on his delivery.
22:22And sometimes, you know, one plus one equals three.
22:25And that's not always the case.
22:27But in this instance, you know, exponential growth over the last, you know, 12 months.
22:31Just to piggyback on, John, I think it's 13 regular season starts at this point.
22:37You want to add two to the playoffs.
22:39It seems like it hardly could go better.
22:41What, to your expert eyes, I'm sure you think this isn't a fluke.
22:44What, why, why not?
22:45What, what, what is he doing or learning along the way that makes you feel, hey, this is
22:51a top of the rotation guy for a while?
22:53Well, I mean, just starting in spring training last year, he was kind of just coming on the
22:58radar.
22:58He had a, you know, nice minor league season the year before, but nothing to pop that say,
23:02like, this guy is going to be in the major leagues this year.
23:04And I thought, you know, he just got some opportunities in spring training to go against
23:08some A lineups and held his own.
23:11The VLO wasn't quite there yet, but obviously some tough swings against him.
23:16He was in the zone quite a bit.
23:17And I think that for me is the hallmark of who he is.
23:20Like, he's not scared of the moment.
23:22He's got a steadiness to him.
23:23He's got some belief in his stuff.
23:25And he's not afraid to attack the strike zone.
23:27And obviously, as the velocity's climbed up and he's kind of moved to, you know, a three
23:32fastball variation, he's a really hard guy to square up.
23:35And he's relentless in the strike zone, which goes a long way.
23:38You say some belief.
23:40He seems extremely confident to me.
23:43Am I misreading that?
23:44Yeah.
23:45I mean, it's a little understated outside of his online presence.
23:49In person, it's a little understated.
23:51But yeah, there's definitely a lot of social media belief.
23:56You know, Matt, I hope before we're done here, we also talk about where Carlos Rodan
24:01and Clark Schmidt are in their rehab.
24:05But there's obviously lots of interest in Garrett Cole, who missed all of last season
24:11after Tommy John surgery.
24:13Can you give us some pathway?
24:14Like, what is he up to?
24:16What does he do next?
24:18And, you know, if possible, I know it's hard to have a crystal ball.
24:21Sometimes it takes a while for a guy to be his full self again.
24:25Like, how close to Garrett Cole do you think you're getting when he comes back?
24:28I'm sorry, that was a mouthful.
24:29Yeah, that's right.
24:30Yeah, so obviously, he had his buildup in spring training and kind of culminated in the
24:34two games, one at home, and then, you know, making the travel to Arizona, which was kind
24:39of a nice test to ramp up into against a real major league lineup in a different setting
24:44with some travel involved.
24:45Obviously, there's a lot of stressors that come into play there.
24:48So I thought that was a good test to just get him out of, you know, the bubble, if you
24:53will, and then kind of reset, go back to Tampa.
24:56He's throwing some lives, and he'll kind of start his game progression again.
25:01But overall, I mean, he really liked the progression he's been on so far.
25:05I mean, obviously, starting last year and building into the offseason where he got some
25:09bullpens done in November at Yankee Stadium and then did his own progression in California.
25:14It's just steady progression.
25:16It's been crisp.
25:17You know, the velo's been coming.
25:19The shapes are good.
25:20So, you know, obviously, you weren't sure what you're going to get in some of these,
25:23you know, early lives and games.
25:25But it's kind of looked like vintage Garrett.
25:27And obviously, we've got to build that and be consistent with it.
25:30But, you know, the mid to high 90s fastball with really good command and then good use
25:35of, you know, multiple secondaries and a good understanding of what he's trying to do.
25:39So, there's a lot to like there.
25:41You know, we've been hearing and saying June 1st forever, but he wasn't placed on the 60-day
25:47DL.
25:47And I was hearing some thought that maybe sometime in May is possible.
25:52What do you think?
25:52Is that possible at this point?
25:54Yeah, I think so.
25:55But at the same time, we're also doing a lot to not rush Garrett because ultimately what
26:00we want is a durable version of him that feels good, fully built up going into the season.
26:05We really don't want him building along the way in the major leagues if we can avoid that.
26:10I think obviously we've left it open, but at the same time, you know, really trying not
26:13to put any pressure on speeding this process up and making sure we do it right by him and
26:18he's ready for the long haul.
26:19Why don't I close that circle and ask you about Rodon and Schmidt?
26:23Obviously, Rodon is somebody who I think you're hoping to have back in the next few weeks,
26:28maybe by late April, early May.
26:31And Clark is the second half guy after Tommy John surgery.
26:35What are their progressions and what are you expecting?
26:38Yeah, Carlos is getting close here as well.
26:41He's up to 50 pitches in a live setting the other day.
26:45And obviously, you know, his next progression will probably build into some rehab games here
26:50shortly.
26:50And then, you know, probably that general timeline of, you know, end of April is fair right now.
26:57But obviously, we've got to keep, you know, taking the ball every five, six days and make
27:01sure we're passing, you know, the needle up.
27:04But I think similarly, we don't want to rush him into competition either.
27:08Obviously, we have, you know, five starters with Louis Hill being the fifth one right now.
27:12But, you know, that makes, you know, good hard decisions coming up for our guys.
27:17Ryan Weathers looked pretty good last night.
27:20I know the scouts were concerned in spring training.
27:25They were talking about his pitch selection.
27:27Maybe pitch selection isn't that important in spring training anyway.
27:30But they were saying his stuff is too good to be hit like this.
27:34What are your, what's your assessment of Weathers?
27:37And were you at all worried in spring training?
27:39Because he had that one great start right at the beginning where he's thrown 100 the first
27:43right out of the shoot.
27:44And then he was pretty much hit around three starts in a row.
27:48So, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say I was worried about it.
27:51We don't really do any game planning in spring training.
27:53So it's kind of letting guys go out there.
27:55And I think for us, it's learning how he operates.
27:58Obviously, the stuff stands out, you know, high 90s fastball, two good breaking balls,
28:02a really good change up out of the sinker.
28:04So I think trying to let him go out there and be himself and at times got a little sped
28:08up
28:09in some of those spring training games, which is good to see because, you know,
28:13obviously you'd like to get that out of the way before you really go into competition.
28:15So we know kind of how to handle it, both from a coaching standpoint and a player standpoint,
28:21just kind of how we're all going to navigate some of these situations.
28:24So I think it was helpful to see that early on and just kind of where we fit in to
28:29kind
28:29of provide some feedback to slow him down, to get some better pitch execution, things
28:33like that.
28:34And I felt like he kept getting better as the spring went on.
28:37Obviously, the Toronto one was a little weird.
28:39A lot of weak contact that turned into, you know, six or seven runs in a strange game.
28:44But that's spring training for you.
28:46And then I thought he finished strong with the last one out in Arizona.
28:50Some really good execution and ultimately carried that mostly into last night in Seattle.
28:56So I feel good about where he's at.
28:58He's taking some nice steps.
28:59We're learning how he operates.
29:01We're kind of getting the pits execution dialed in and kind of the usage as we get some more
29:06known lineups, things like that.
29:08But ultimately, you know, a great arm and a good kid.
29:11And he's going to he's going to do a ball for us.
29:13The talk of your spring was really Carlos Legrande, who I'm sure I'm going to pronounce wrong
29:18at every turn here in my time.
29:22But I wonder if you could take us a little through.
29:25I'm glad if you would tell us like what you like about him and maybe what he has to learn.
29:29But when somebody throws like that and you have a must win team, are there discussions
29:36about should we bring him as a starter, should we bring him as a reliever versus the there's
29:43still things he has to tick off on the development chart?
29:47Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, burst onto the scene, had a strong year last year,
29:51a little notoriety coming into spring.
29:53Obviously, the fastball is big and he's got some good secondaries that play off the 100
29:58mile an hour fastball.
29:59I think the thing that impressed me the most, I mean, obviously, a young kid that throws
30:03hard, but he's not only reliant on the 100 miles an hour, he can land his secondaries,
30:08he gets back in count with the slider and the sweeper, he used the changeup versus righties.
30:12So there's some advanced things that he does for given, you know, being so young and throwing
30:16so hard that a lot of guys would just be relying on the 100 miles an hour.
30:20And I think personality wise, like he does a nice job of, you know, fitting into the
30:25environment, picking up what other guys are doing, asking questions, he wants to get better.
30:30He's got some aptitude to learn and grow, which is huge.
30:33So, I mean, that's why we view him, you know, so strongly is just like he's got the tools
30:38to be successful from a physical standpoint.
30:40And then his mental side of the game is strong as well.
30:44And he's looking to grow and get better.
30:45And he's not just, you know, being complacent with what he has.
30:48So he knows he's not a finished product.
30:50And I thought that the ending in Arizona was perfect for, you know, a great spring training
30:55showed he's got, you know, room to go.
30:57He's against a really good major league lineup.
30:58And now he's got some things to work on in AAA.
31:01Can I just follow?
31:02When do you know when to shoot that shot?
31:06Either in the rotation or the bullpen, right?
31:08Because like, if he's available to you last night, he might be pitching late in that game, right?
31:13Yep.
31:13So, yeah, it's always the delicate balance you're going to play here where we've got 162
31:18and, you know, you're going to need more than five starters.
31:21Does he fit in as, you know, six, seven, eight?
31:24You know, where does he, you know, ultimately, you know, fit into the major league environment?
31:28You know, could he be a good reliever for us?
31:30Yeah, probably.
31:32Does that limit his long-term growth if we put him in there right now?
31:35So definitely a lot of, you know, conversations amongst the, you know, the different departments
31:39of where he fits and when to bring him and an exciting name in spring training to think about
31:44being a part of our group.
31:46I think there's no clear, perfect answer here, but I think that the timeline of the season
31:50will kind of start to dictate for that, dictate that for us, you know, depending on, you know,
31:54health of the roster and, you know, what needs we have both in the starting rotation and the bullpen.
31:59And I'll use a disclaimer here.
32:02It's early and he's just guessing, but for what it's worth, one scout suggested to me,
32:06he thought that LeGron Hay would ultimately be a reliever.
32:11I'm not sure exactly why.
32:14He does throw 103 miles an hour.
32:16Maybe it's just a natural inclination to think that about anyone who throws that hard.
32:21What do you think long-term?
32:23And what about this year?
32:25You know, the guy does 103, the bullpen, at least from my way of looking at it, is not
32:32your biggest strength.
32:34Is there a good chance he'll be in the bullpen by the end of the year?
32:38Yeah.
32:38I mean, I could see a scenario where that plays out.
32:41Obviously, he throws enough strikes right now to be competitive in a small burst to just
32:47come in and attack the zone.
32:49And he does have a wider arsenal than your traditional reliever with the four pitches right
32:54now.
32:55You know, if that's where the need is, I could certainly see him having success there.
32:58But it's also like there's so much value in having homegrown starters and what that does
33:03for your team.
33:04So I don't think we want to limit him.
33:06And I don't think he needs to be limited because he's shown he can control the running
33:08game.
33:09He's shown he's improved his command.
33:10He's building out his arsenal.
33:12So like all the things you'd like to see from a starter, he's doing.
33:15And he's got the aptitude to understand the game planning and things along those lines.
33:18And so I don't think he needs to be limited to the bullpen.
33:22But there's certainly upside in putting him in there in the short term.
33:26You know, Matt, if I were making a list and it's obviously it's four games of 162 of what's
33:30been most impressive, which are pitching.
33:32And by the way, again, it's all been pretty impressive.
33:35It's under one ERA for four games.
33:39Schlittler's probably one.
33:40I'm not sure if Camilo Duvall isn't number two on that list for the three games he pitched.
33:46And to John's point, I think if we were looking from 20,000 feet coming into this season, we
33:50would have said, how do you get the ball to Bednar comfortably as a key issue?
33:56He looks good.
33:57Do you believe in it?
33:58Is there something he's doing much better this year or additionally that we didn't see
34:03at the end of last year?
34:04Yeah, I think it was kind of building towards the end of the year.
34:07We started to put some some strong outings together into the postseason, you know, in
34:12a little bit of a different role.
34:13He kind of pitched in, you know, sixth, seventh inning at times.
34:17And I think we just wanted to spend some time getting to know him and build some trust with
34:22him.
34:22Obviously, you know, anytime you get traded in the middle of the season, it's difficult.
34:26He'd been with San Fran the whole time.
34:28So trying to learn some new people in New York's not the easiest environment.
34:32So I think we tried to slow play any changes we want to make and just get a sense of
34:36a
34:36relationship and some some grounding there.
34:39And then we got an opportunity as the as the season was going on to introduce some delivery
34:43ideas just to kind of get him closer to that 2023 version of himself when he was an all
34:47star and then built on in the offseason.
34:50Preston Claiborne, our bullpen coach, went down to the D.R. to spend some time with him
34:54and continue to foster that.
34:56And then obviously we were a little bit hampered in spring training with the WBC and he was
35:01gone for a bit.
35:01But I think just getting the tempo a little bit quicker for him, you know, refining a
35:06little bit of the shapes, making sure we're aware of what they want to be, but ultimately
35:09just focusing on attack in the strike zone with his delivery was the biggest thing.
35:13Just to follow up on Duval, he looks like a terrific talent, as are a lot of your pitchers,
35:20frankly.
35:20But my concern about about him would have been more about the pitch calm and controlling
35:25the running game and getting distracted.
35:28Was that something that you guys worked on as well in spring training and thought about
35:32a lot?
35:33Yeah.
35:33And the nice thing was that Austin Wells was with the Dominican team during the WBC.
35:38So we actually got to work with Camilo there.
35:41So they've actually gone to just the number sign with no runners on just to speed things
35:45up a little bit.
35:46And then, yeah, and then with the pitch calm, it's just getting in the rhythm of making sure
35:50we're getting him the signs quick enough and getting the running game called in quick.
35:54So there's time for him to get into a set and work.
35:56But obviously, anytime you have, you know, pitch calm issues, you've got to figure out,
36:00you know, how to tighten up the process, you know, not just with him, but all our guys.
36:04And ultimately, that's something that we've been working on.
36:06You know, Matt, I hope I'm not a jinx.
36:08But you came into spring training with three injured pitchers, all of whom seem to be making
36:15good progress, and you didn't add to it.
36:18Are you guys learning some better techniques for keeping guys healthy?
36:23Are the biomechanic things you're learning along the ways?
36:27Are the wearable technology where maybe you could avoid some spikes, et cetera?
36:32Is any of that helpful for, are you learning?
36:36What are you learning about one of the toughest things in sports, how to keep a major league
36:40pitcher healthy?
36:41Yeah, we're definitely still learning.
36:43It's an ongoing battle.
36:44There's just so many factors involved in keeping guys healthy.
36:47But I do think we've put a much stronger attention on, you know, just our buildups in spring training,
36:54you know, not just doing a classic 10 to 15 pitch jump every time.
36:57You've noticed that a lot of our guys make six to eight pitch jumps in spring training,
37:01and we start them earlier.
37:03So there's probably a little bit more live batting practice before spring training starts
37:08that's not, you know, historically been done, and then allows us to kind of get them up
37:13to speed maybe quicker, but over a longer burn, too.
37:17It's not just like, you know, 30 to 45 to 60 to 75.
37:20I think we do a better job of giving them a footing to build on instead of just trying
37:25to get them to 85 or 90 pitches at the end of camp, just because that's what we hope
37:29they're at.
37:30And then I think just a lot more attention on the throwing programs.
37:34I think we're just paying a tighter attention to what guys need and kind of how to, you
37:38know, undulate the throwing programs a little bit better instead of just hoping they know
37:42what they're doing and just assuming they're going to get it right.
37:45So I just think the attention to detail has gotten a lot better.
37:48And, you know, having Desi Druchel back with us and Preston, they do a tremendous job of
37:53monitoring a lot of this stuff.
37:54And we've got some great people behind the scenes to help with it.
37:57Last one for me.
37:58Luis Heal is another terrific talent, and I missed his earlier starts in spring.
38:03I only saw the last one, and he looked great.
38:06Did that make your decision to send him down a little bit harder?
38:10How did he take it?
38:11And where do you think he stands right now?
38:14Yeah, it definitely was a tough decision and tough conversation just because it's a guy
38:19who's been in our rotation.
38:20Obviously, he had a tough year last year with the injury and then coming back and maybe not
38:24getting all the way up to full speed.
38:26So we spent a lot of time with him this offseason.
38:29He came to Tampa early.
38:30He's very coachable.
38:32He did everything we asked of him.
38:33He was attacking the strike zone.
38:35His zone rate was really high.
38:37One of our best strike throwers in spring training.
38:39We talked about getting the velocity back up.
38:42We talked about improving the fastball profile.
38:44Every time, he was checking boxes and getting better.
38:47Obviously, he had the one tough one against Detroit.
38:50Then we built on it.
38:52We just said, okay, what's the next step?
38:54Improving the delivery a little bit, altering the release to get a little bit better profile.
38:58Then he comes out and dominates that last outing.
39:01Then it just kind of came down to there's a balance here to be had with getting him ready
39:06for the season as a starter and then also helping our bullpen by having some guys out there
39:12that are more true relievers so we don't have three long guys.
39:15I think it's hard to take when you're getting optioned, but it's not from a performance standpoint.
39:20It's the schedule is dictating it.
39:21We need him to be a built-up starter.
39:23We don't want to have three long guys.
39:25A lot of things kind of got tangled up there, but ultimately, he kind of understood the message.
39:30He's down there getting his lives and games in to be ready for coming back up when the fifth starter
39:34is needed.
39:35Matt, it's probably hard to be as good as Max Freed is and talked as little about.
39:41We've had you for about 20, 25 minutes here, and we haven't talked about the actual ace of the current
39:46team,
39:47a guy who was in Cy Young contention who started opening day.
39:52Give us some insight into a guy who kind of could do this in New York and kind of go
39:58under the radar a little bit.
40:00Yeah, I think he's kind of got an understated personality in the room.
40:04He obviously communicates very well with his teammates and his coaches,
40:08but he's not a look-at-me guy or he's not very loud, so he kind of floats through.
40:13But ultimately, he's very inquisitive.
40:16He's got a curiosity for the game.
40:17He wants to get better.
40:19He's got eight pitches that he's constantly working on and refining and crafting.
40:23And then he's very detailed in his prep for the opposing lineup.
40:27I think he knows exactly who they are and kind of how his eight pitches fit together,
40:32and he's not going to necessarily use all eight every game, but he's got options.
40:36And for me, he's been tremendous for the room.
40:40Matt, just as a way of wrapping up, and of course, we always thank you for joining us,
40:43is we've mentioned a lot of really, really quality people either with you,
40:47coming through injury, maybe sitting in the minors.
40:50We didn't even mention Elmer Rodriguez.
40:51I think it was pretty impressive to your group in spring.
40:54We never talk about Will Warren, who's kind of like the tortoise and the tortoise and the hare.
40:57He just keeps kind of doing his job and not falling out of the race.
41:01It seems from the outside, the best Yankees, the idealized version of the Yankees,
41:06if you can get to your full rotation.
41:08Do you dream on it, what it could look like if you can get the full group together
41:13and at a pretty close to peak?
41:16Yeah, it's one of those things where my mind will drift there a little bit,
41:20and then I pull it back and it's like, don't let it go there.
41:23It's the game.
41:24There's a lot of attrition.
41:25Things always happen.
41:27But it is, you know, we've got a lot of talent in this group.
41:29Obviously, the group of five we have right now, plus, you know, Garrett, Carlos,
41:34LeGrande, Elmer, like, this is as deep as we've been since I've been here
41:38in the starting rotation, you know, not including, you know, Yarbrough and Blackburn,
41:42who are major league starters up to this point.
41:44So, like, we've got a lot of options to provide quality innings,
41:48and obviously, you know, it's a good problem to have as we get going.
41:51Well, Matt, again, it's four games, but it's been, you know,
41:56pretty much top to bottom with your whole pitching staff.
41:59Really excellent.
42:00As I think we expected, it would be that it would be a strength of a very good team.
42:06Obviously, you're at the, you know, the forefront of this as the pitching coach.
42:10And as always, John and I, thank you for joining us on the show.
42:13Yeah, appreciate it, guys.
42:14I'm glad we got off to a good start and good timing for this.
42:18Absolutely. Thanks a lot, Matt.
42:25John and I, of course, thank Matt Blake, who's joined us several times over the years.
42:30He's always so interesting on where the Yankee pitching staff is on.
42:34John, hit or error?
42:35I'm going to go error.
42:37A lot of people would look at it as a hit because Aaron Boone's strategy behind the challenges of the
42:43ABS has worked,
42:44and they've done great with the challenges, but I didn't like when he started to chirp at the home plate
42:50umpire
42:51after the umpire lost yet another challenge.
42:54I think the Yankees won challenges with three batters in a row, maybe.
42:57I don't know.
42:58They kept winning challenges, and the poor guy's already looking bad,
43:01and now he's got Aaron Boone yelling at him.
43:03I don't know whether there was some strategy behind that or what,
43:06but, I mean, to me, that's a bad winner.
43:08So that's my loser of the week.
43:11My error goes to Aaron Boone.
43:13You know, good for his strategy, but not a good winner.
43:17I think he subconsciously is probably trying to get him so he doesn't even have to use the challenge
43:22to call those little balls on their hitters.
43:25It's like trying to influence like a basketball coach.
43:27That could work the other way, too, by the way.
43:29Yes.
43:31But there's a way to challenge it if you think somebody's doing it just to get at you.
43:35John, I think there were two big stories early this season,
43:40one we discussed at the top of the show, the ABS.
43:42The other one is, for the first week, a lot of young players have played really,
43:46a lot of, like, positional rookies in an age where we always keep thinking pitching is way ahead of hitting,
43:52and I think it's still ahead.
43:53Are we seeing an influx of hitters who might be changing that?
43:57The guy, Sal Stewart, on the Reds opened the season 8-for-12 with five walks.
44:02We saw some good things from Owen Cassie, who got traded from the Cubs to the Marlins.
44:09Murakami and Okamoto both got off well.
44:12It had been a lot.
44:13Chase DeLauder, four home runs.
44:15John Homers, Kevin McGonagall's looked good.
44:17Weatherholt's looked good.
44:18Ben just had a couple of moments early on.
44:21It's only a weekend, but it's definitely that way.
44:24They had that great draft a few years ago, right?
44:26Weatherholt was in that draft.
44:27Connor Griffin was in that draft.
44:30You know, Kurtz was in that draft.
44:32Hopefully, we get some more offense, right?
44:34It's been an issue with baseball, that we don't have enough doubles and triples and enough offense,
44:39and the pitching has been too good.
44:42And it does feel like the influx is mostly position players and hitters.
44:47Yeah, I mean, Sal Stewart, they've barely gotten the guy out.
44:50And DeLauder, the four home runs in Seattle, not easy.
44:55You know, I love it.
44:57I think it's great.
44:58You know, we saw that WBC, all the guys who are 25 and younger, performing brilliantly.
45:04Roman Anthony.
45:05I mean, Bobby Witt Jr. is still only 25.
45:08McLean is still under 25.
45:11So, I think it's a good time.
45:13It feels a good place.
45:14DeLauder, one of the rare cases, he made his debut in the playoffs last year.
45:18This was his regular season debut.
45:20These games that began.
45:22I mean, he's a great hitter.
45:23If he could just stay healthy.
45:24I mean, looking at his record, he just had too many, as they call it, lower body injuries.
45:31He's had too many injuries.
45:32And if he's healthy, he's great.
45:35Because, look, Cleveland, I know nobody talks about Cleveland, but they need that, right?
45:40They passed on Kurtz.
45:41They passed on Kurtz.
45:43They traded away Camonero.
45:44And this could be their Kurtz or Camonero, if this is what he is, right?
45:49And on young position plays, we should probably note, the Brewers signed Cooper Pratt, eight years, 50.75 million.
45:56And the Mariners agreed with Cole Emerson, an infielder, eight and 95 million.
46:00Two guys who haven't even played in the major leagues yet and barely have a couple of games above them.
46:05Milwaukee does everything right.
46:07I mean, I guess it's a good sign for baseball that we're willing to throw 50 million or 90 million
46:12at someone who's never played.
46:13And I know Conor Griffin's been offered 110 million or something like that.
46:17I guess it's a good sign.
46:20I always find it dangerous when you sign.
46:23I mean, Conor Griffin, I think it's close to a guarantee.
46:26But, I mean, the Milwaukee kid, Cooper Pratt, he had 238 in AA last year.
46:32He's played three games at triple.
46:34Now, I can't question anything Milwaukee does.
46:37Everything is great.
46:38They develop better than anybody.
46:39They scout as well as anybody.
46:43I don't know.
46:44It seems a little crazy to me.
46:47I don't want to say that out loud.
46:48It seems a little nutty.
46:49Did they do that because it was too late on Bryce Terrang and they needed to do it with somebody?
46:54You know, I don't think so because they're as smart as anybody.
46:56But the guy they should have locked up was Bryce Terrang.
47:00And it's probably too late for Milwaukee, unfortunately.
47:02Well, they did get Cheerio early, right?
47:04They did.
47:04That was a great move.
47:05Look, they do everything.
47:06They're amazing.
47:08I should never doubt them.
47:09You pick them.
47:10You'll be right again.
47:11I pick the Cubs.
47:12I'm going to be wrong again for the fourth year in a row.
47:14Milwaukee is incredible.
47:15But I do remember when Seattle gave Evan White a double-A player, $24 million, and I poked fun at
47:23it a few times.
47:24His agent sent me his T-shirt, which I still wear on my rare workouts because it's the only one
47:29that still fits me, the Evan White T-shirt.
47:32You know, he was smart.
47:34He took the $24 million.
47:35He still hasn't made it yet, right?
47:36Yeah, there's ones that didn't work.
47:38Scott Kingery didn't work.
47:39Evan White didn't work.
47:40John Singleton.
47:41There were guys who signed these early deals before they got up, and some of them don't.
47:45Right.
47:46But Singleton was a drop in the bucket, right?
47:48It was $10 million.
47:49Eh, what's that?
47:49Yeah.
47:50Yeah.
47:51So it's me and you.
47:52I will say this.
47:54I hope the fringe benefit.
47:55You mentioned Conor Griffin.
47:58There's been rumors, at least, about guys like Weatherholt and a few other guys along the way here.
48:03If they're going to get signed, McGonagall, maybe we'll avoid a labor stoppage because they won't need a salary cap.
48:10Everyone, all the good young players will be signed.
48:13Keep dreaming, buddy.
48:15Keep dreaming.
48:15It's not happening.
48:17All right.
48:17All right.
48:18Our perennial rookie of the year is Tommy Hogan, our great producer.
48:21Tommy, thank you so much, as always.
48:23Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts, please rate and review us.
48:26It does help the show.
48:28Don't forget to give a good look at the California Posts up and running, especially great Dodger content with Dylan
48:35Hernandez and Jack Harris, our two guys who are on the Dodgers all the time.
48:40The New York Post sports YouTube page, give a view, and please continue to stick with us on the show
48:46with Joel Sherman and John Heyman.
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