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catching up with the royals with rev richard coles s01e08
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00:00Hello and welcome to another episode of Catching Up with the Royals with me, Emily Andrews.
00:05And me, Richard Coles. This is the podcast that takes you beyond the headlines and lifts the lid
00:10on what life is really like behind palace walls.
00:13Although at one time did have to buy him a drink. He didn't buy me a drink.
00:17Hey, hey, hey, hey, more on that please.
00:19This week we'll be pulling back the proverbial curtain on the inner workings of the so-called firm,
00:25arguably one of the most lucrative companies in the world,
00:28from which royal earns the most.
00:30The king.
00:31He is the first billionaire monarch.
00:33Doesn't hurt if you are exempt from inheritance tax.
00:37Two, the act of quitting the family business.
00:39What does the world owe you if all of a sudden you've handed back your crown?
00:42We'll be uncovering exactly how the House of Windsor is run and makes its money.
00:52Well, here we all are again, catching up with the royals.
00:56Now, Prince Philip famously referred to it not as a family, but a firm.
01:02Do you think that was apt?
01:05I think so. I think for two reasons, really.
01:08One, the monarch is like the CEO, the chief executive, and effectively runs everything.
01:15He or she, any person within the firm, be they working royal, member of the family or courtier, answers to
01:22the monarch.
01:23And actually, I think it's apt that Philip coined it because he was the arch moderniser.
01:27He was a real moderniser in the royal family of the 20th century.
01:32And I think that what's interesting about the firm is that they are, in some respects,
01:40when we're in the age of influencer, aren't we?
01:41But aren't they the ultimate influencer?
01:43Aren't they the ultimate brand?
01:45So, it's really important to make a distinction between royals, which we talk about, obviously, catching up with the royals.
01:51That's all of them.
01:52That's all of them. They're all welcome here.
01:53Princess Michael of Kent.
01:55Yes, Zara Tindall. She is a royal.
01:57But the working royals are funded by the sovereign grant.
02:00Now, the monarch is funded in three ways.
02:02He or she has their own private inherited income.
02:06Not. They don't have to pay income tax.
02:08So, because of that, I think Charles is the first billionaire British monarch ever
02:12because he didn't have to pay inheritance tax on his mother's inheritance.
02:16So, they're funded by personal wealth, the Duchy of Lancaster and the sovereign grant.
02:21The heir to the throne, the Prince of Wales, is funded by the Duchy of Cornwall.
02:24Hang on. Duchy of Cornwall, Duchy of Lancaster. What are those?
02:27Yes, those are two separate duchies.
02:29So, the monarch is also the Duke of Lancaster.
02:33Queen Elizabeth was the Duke of Lancaster.
02:34And they're separate duchies.
02:37They are huge land-owning entities.
02:41Now, the sovereign grant is a percentage of the crown estate.
02:45So, the sovereign grant is paid to the monarch that funds all the work of the royal family.
02:49So, the crown estate are those holdings that belong not to the individual, the king, Charles,
02:54but to the crown.
02:55Absolutely.
02:55To the king and his successors.
02:57Absolutely.
02:57And a percentage of the profits goes to pay for all the working royals and their travel,
03:05the job that they do, basically, for Britain, PLC.
03:08Two other words for you.
03:10Corporation tax?
03:12I don't know whether the crown estate pays corporation tax.
03:15That's a really good question.
03:18If you start from the notion that actually anything held by the crown is exempt from taxation because it's HMRC,
03:25isn't it?
03:26It's the crown that does the taxing.
03:28Exactly.
03:28So, the crown taxing itself does sort of have to be by its own volition because that's how it works,
03:35right?
03:35Everything else that they do, even when they're going, say, they're visiting India or they're visiting the US,
03:40then that's paid for by us via the sovereign grant.
03:43Now, the working royals are the king, the queen.
03:46Come on, Richard.
03:47Who else?
03:48The prince of Princess Wales.
03:49Yes.
03:51The princess royal.
03:52Yes.
03:53The Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh.
03:55Well done, Sophie and Edward.
03:58There's three more.
04:00Princess Alexandra.
04:02The Duke of Kent.
04:04Yes.
04:05I've run out of royals.
04:06And the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester.
04:07Of course, yeah.
04:08And then, of course, for the Prince of Wales, the heir to the throne is funded by the Duchy of
04:13Cornwall.
04:14All those biscuits.
04:15All those biscuits, yeah.
04:16Actually, fun fact, you're absolutely right to say about Dutch originals, but that was set up by Charles as Prince
04:24of Wales,
04:24but now it's wholly owned by Waitrose.
04:27Oh, really?
04:27Yeah.
04:28But the brand and the association endures?
04:31The brand and the association endures.
04:32It was set up in partnership, I think, between Charles and Waitrose, and then any profits from the range were
04:41given to the Prince's Trust.
04:43Oh, I see.
04:43So it's actually, it was profits going to charity.
04:46Yeah.
04:46Profits still go to charity, even though it's now owned by Waitrose.
04:48We're talking about kind of large sums of money here, but I just want to say on the sovereign grant,
04:52before people think that that's actually kind of tax that could otherwise, you know, be spent on hospitals, schools and
04:58roads, which indeed it could be.
04:59But actually, the sovereign grant comes out of the income of the Crown Estates, right?
05:03So that's holdings that belong not to Charles, but to the monarchy, and the sovereign grant is a percentage of
05:12the profits from that.
05:13That's absolutely right.
05:14Right.
05:15And that was an arrangement that goes back historically.
05:17I know they tinker with it from time to time.
05:19Yeah, so George Osborne, when he was Chancellor back in, I think, like 2011, 2012, it used to be the
05:25civil list.
05:26So effectively, the UK government would dollop a whole load of cash to the Keeper of the Privy Purse, who
05:31is like the chief accountant at Monarchy HQ.
05:34Funnily, the principals, the royal family, call Buckingham Palace Monarchy HQ.
05:38They do call it Monarchy HQ.
05:40So the government used to, the UK government used to give a whole load of cash to the Keeper of
05:45the Privy Purse, which would fund all their work.
05:49And then under the Cameron coalition government between the Tories and the Lib Dems, George Osborne was Chancellor, and he
05:57actually did the royals a real favour, because he said that a percentage of the Crown Estate, which, as you've
06:04absolutely said, is held, it's kind of like it's Crown lands, but all the money goes to the UK taxpayer.
06:11And now a percentage goes to the royals to fund their work.
06:15So you could say, in a sense, that there's sort of self-funding.
06:18If you were looking to...
06:19Oh, no.
06:20No, I don't think you can say that.
06:22Quite the opposite.
06:23Well, I'm saying if you were looking as a way...
06:25And what I'm saying is it's a highly political debate, and indeed a politicised debate.
06:29And some people would argue that you do get value for money from the royal family, or the monarchy, and
06:35some would say you don't.
06:36And that's a very polarised view, and I'm just trying to figure out what the arguments are on either side
06:40of that.
06:41I think how they're funded, and whether they provide good value for money, in my opinion, are two slightly different
06:47debates.
06:48And the other complications, of course, is how much of this is because it's not unreasonable to pay people to
06:53do a job?
06:54In other words, how much of this is in return for services rendered?
06:56Which is, if you're a head of a state, it involves things like palaces and security and that kind of
07:00thing.
07:01Or how much of this is people just getting an easy ride from the Treasury and HMRC, not paying inheritance
07:06tax, for example, if you're the sovereign?
07:08Well, I think, are they worth it? Are they value for money? Depends on who you ask.
07:15And I think it often depends on your view of politics. I think it probably depends on your age.
07:22We tend to be more supportive of monarchy, I think, as we get older.
07:25Certainly younger people, all the popularity polls are that, you know, people don't support the monarchy as much when they
07:31are.
07:31God save the Queen! I was the King now, innit?
07:34Say aye.
07:36It's really bloody complicated.
07:37It's really complicated.
07:37And that's one of the reasons why it works for them is they don't make it, it's not transparent.
07:42It's not transparent.
07:43They want it to be complicated and they want so that they, we don't delve too much into how much
07:48money they really do have.
07:50I've got a quiz for you before we go.
07:53Richard, how many official roles working for the family have been related to the lavatory?
08:00Oh my word.
08:02I know, bringing the tone down, aren't I?
08:03I'm going to have to think about that.
08:05Back with you soon.
08:10Welcome back to Catching Up With The Royals.
08:13Before the break, I asked you how many official roles working for the royal family have involved lavatories?
08:19Wait for it.
08:21And the answer is two.
08:23Number two.
08:24Oh, Richard!
08:26You have to bring the tone down, but I love it.
08:28I love it.
08:29Of course it had to be a number two.
08:31Yes, and that is relevant.
08:32Okay, so the two roles are, if you hadn't worked out already, groom of the stool and keeper of the
08:39royal bedchamber stools.
08:41Now, Richard, do you know what the groom of the stool had to do?
08:45Well, I was hoping it was someone who had to do with seating arrangements, but I guess we're on a
08:49different stool here.
08:50I think it's a different stool.
08:51I'm going to leave it for you to explain.
08:53Okay, so the groom of the stool would literally be there to wipe the monarch's derriere.
08:59They would be there to wipe the monarch's bottom, should he or she chose.
09:03And I think also, in all seriousness, it was an important job because you also, it was to do with
09:08the health of the monarch.
09:08So you had to inspect the stool and make sure that it all looked appropriate and that they didn't have
09:13an upset tummy and they weren't ill.
09:14But whoever held that job was actually a very, very important courtier because he or she would be incredibly close
09:24to the monarch
09:24and was party to all their private thoughts in a very intimate environment.
09:28So in the days of, say, a Tudor monarchy, for example, where the monarch was the sun, the moon and
09:33everything,
09:34if you had the ear of Henry VIII as well as the bottom of Henry VIII, you had a very,
09:41very direct root of power.
09:42Yeah, definitely.
09:43And also, I think there's something, isn't there, to be said.
09:45You know, I don't want to speak for you, Richard, but when you're literally naked or partially clothed, you are
09:51quite vulnerable, aren't you?
09:52And I think there has to be a sense of real intimacy between someone who is helping you in that,
09:59you know, not that I've ever had this.
10:01You know, it's quite a vulnerable thing.
10:03Yeah.
10:03But also, the fact that the health of the monarch was so closely related to the health of the nation.
10:09Yeah.
10:09So if the monarch's poos were looking a bit off, that might affect the value of the pound.
10:14Yeah, totally.
10:15Yeah, because the monarch needed to live because he or she, and it's the same now,
10:20you see it with people around the court, you know, of the monarch and the air-in-waiting,
10:27everyone's kind of thinking, how long have they got?
10:30Because if they go, my position goes too.
10:32Which is why the second role, keeper of the royal bedchamber stools, was also important,
10:38because that role involved putting out all the chamber pots for high-ranking and official guests.
10:44And if you think, again, going back to kind of medieval Tudor times,
10:47when obviously there was letter writing, huge amount of letter writing,
10:51but the real way that diplomacy, well, still like now, was effected, was through face-to-face.
10:58It's access.
10:59Access.
10:59Yeah.
11:00Mind you, a bittersweet feeling to be told.
11:03The good news is you've been appointed to a very senior position at court.
11:06The bad news is bring your mittens.
11:09Yeah, I know.
11:11But there are other ones, aren't there?
11:12It's so interesting that there's another job, the page of the back stairs.
11:17Billy, back stairs Billy.
11:19Yes, back stairs Billy.
11:20Now, the page of the back stairs, it sounds like you would rather be page of the main stairs,
11:25but the back stairs was where a lot of the unofficial business was transacted.
11:29So the back stairs where people could get in and out, up and down,
11:33in and out of the sovereign or the prince's chamber without being seen,
11:37without being on public display.
11:39So that's quite significant.
11:40I remember visiting a stately home, and there was a suite that was reserved for the heir to the title,
11:45and that had a separate entrance, which went to a side door.
11:50So the heir to the title could conduct his, invariably in that case, his business,
11:55without it being confused with the official business of the house.
11:59Do you see what I mean?
11:59Yeah.
12:00It's interesting, isn't it?
12:00It's very clever.
12:01Yeah.
12:01And then, of course, there's always the kind of, there's roles like the royal shoe wearer.
12:06I mean, and that's sort of that, I don't know whether that happens with King Charles,
12:09but that certainly happened with the late queen, Queen Elizabeth, Angela Kelly, otherwise known as AK-47,
12:17because she was, and she still is pretty formidable, although she's retired now.
12:20She was the late queen's dresser for many, many years, a very impressive Liverpudlian.
12:25And she had the same size shoe as the queen, the same size foot, sorry, as the queen,
12:30and she would wear in her shoes.
12:33Well, that makes sense, because if you're the queen and you're on your feet all day,
12:35you could be literally put out of business if you've got a blister, or if you, you know,
12:41you need that, that's an indispensable service.
12:45Absolutely.
12:46If you're the queen and you're, or the king, and your time is minuted to the second to the minute,
12:51and they do, their schedules are 7.43, 8.22.
12:55You know, if your shoes are rubbing and you're in pain, that's no good for anyone.
12:59I'm fascinated by Angela Kelly to have had that degree of access and also that degree of intimacy.
13:05And clearly, is affection the right word?
13:07I'm not sure if you...
13:08Yes, I think so.
13:10It's such an interesting role, isn't it?
13:11And also, how interesting that she's described as a weapon by her nickname at court.
13:16Yes, AK-47.
13:18Well, the story goes that while she was still working for the late queen,
13:23she was allowed to publish two books, the first of which was a book about royal dresses.
13:32And then I think the then Prince of Wales, Prince Charles, was very worried
13:35about what she might publish after the queen died,
13:40because she literally had access to all the secrets.
13:43She used to watch television with the late queen.
13:45She was her confidant.
13:46She would know who the queen voted for on Strictly.
13:48Yeah, she would know.
13:49I bet she'd say you.
13:51I'm certain she wouldn't.
13:53But she would know.
13:54She would know who, if the queen put a bet, which horse she'd been betting on.
13:57She would know who, what the queen thought about Meghan.
14:02So...
14:03Also intimacy, knickers and bras and all that stuff.
14:05Yes, all of that kind of thing.
14:07When the queen was unwell, Angela would go and personally care for her.
14:11She did her hair.
14:13She helped her with her make-up.
14:14And so when a monarch dies, everybody around the monarch,
14:19groom in the stall or not, is out on their...
14:21Exactly.
14:22It's out on their...
14:22Has to be.
14:23So Charles made sure he gave her a nice house.
14:26I mean, there's a story that Backstairs Billy,
14:28who was so loyal to the queen mother and keeper of all the secrets,
14:31knew where all the bodies were buried.
14:33Once the queen mother died, he was booted out to a flat in Kennington, I think.
14:36I'm sure that's true.
14:39Allegedly.
14:40Allegedly.
14:40Allegedly.
14:41Well, he's dead now, isn't he?
14:42But, I mean, he knew a lot.
14:45That can make you very powerful.
14:47Yes, knowledge is power.
14:49Yeah.
14:49So I think it's interesting that now, of course, we don't have...
14:53You know, famously, when Queen Camilla became queen
14:56and was crowned a couple of years ago,
14:58she let it be known that she wouldn't have ladies-in-waiting.
15:01She now has companions and Kay Middy, our friend,
15:05Kay Middy, the Princess of Wales, everybody.
15:07Her Royal Highness.
15:08Don't clutch your pearls too much.
15:09Her Royal Highness Catherine, the Princess of Wales.
15:11She doesn't have ladies-in-waiting either.
15:13Yeah, interesting.
15:14The other thing, of course, is if you've got all these people,
15:17like wearing in your shoes or looking at your stools or whatever,
15:20that's payroll, isn't it?
15:22Payroll.
15:22How rich do you need to be?
15:24I mean, we've talked about...
15:25So the sovereign grant covers some of this,
15:27but what about the personal wealth of the senior royals, the sovereign?
15:30Let me look at my list.
15:31Let me look at my list.
15:32I'm glad you asked me that.
15:33So the royal rich list, who do you think tops it?
15:36The king.
15:37Of course.
15:38He is the first billionaire monarch.
15:41Now, that's partly because of that awful word, inflation.
15:43It's also partly through very savvy investment
15:46throughout the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s.
15:49And also, I think it's partly thanks to Prince Philip,
15:52because Philip and Charles started treating the royal estate,
15:57their personal income, their personal lands,
16:00as businesses, the firm.
16:03And so then they started charging market rent.
16:06It wasn't just a feudal,
16:07oh, I'll just let you live in this house if you mow my field for me.
16:11They professionalised it.
16:12They professionalised it.
16:13They absolutely, they professionalised the business of being a monarch.
16:17And so Charles is estimated at 1.8 billion.
16:20Can I just add to this?
16:21It doesn't hurt if you are exempt from inheritance tax.
16:25I was just about to give you that.
16:26Richard, we need to talk about inheritance tax.
16:28I think we do need to talk about inheritance tax.
16:30Very quickly, I'm going to run through the rest,
16:31but then we need to explain to everybody about the inheritance tax issue.
16:35So Prince William, as the heir to the throne,
16:37Duchy of Cornwall, he's estimated at 90 million.
16:39Princess Anne, I didn't know this.
16:40Her personal fortune is approximately 50 million.
16:43That's largely through inherited estates and wealth and investments.
16:48And then Prince Harry and Meghan, again,
16:50we don't know how much really they're worth
16:51because we don't know what any of them are worth.
16:53But Harry and Meghan combined private net worth
16:56is commonly estimated around 47 million pounds.
17:00But the monarch doesn't have to pay inheritance tax.
17:04This is a very significant perk, isn't it?
17:07Because it's 40% or something, isn't it, inheritance tax on most people.
17:10I know I inherited a little money from my mother
17:13and a chunk of that went to the tax ban.
17:15And if that hadn't gone to the tax ban,
17:19I would be wearing a tiara right now.
17:21Well, I wouldn't, but you know what I mean.
17:23I do.
17:24I mean, is it fair?
17:24Yeah, I would say, I suppose the problem is,
17:27is that if the monarch was subject to inheritance tax,
17:30then would they go bankrupt?
17:31Well, I know, because there's a sort of,
17:34they use a language, which sounds like an exemption,
17:36which is sovereign to sovereign, right?
17:37So it's only the succeeding sovereign who enjoys that benefit.
17:42Yeah.
17:43The other thing that's striking about this is that
17:45you do get this right, they do pay a certain amount of tax,
17:48but they seem to decide themselves.
17:50I would very much like to speak to HMRC and say,
17:52I've decided to pay you this amount of tax this year.
17:55Okay, with you, thank you very much, bye.
17:57It's not going to work, is it?
17:58Well, it's interesting because when Charles was Prince of Wales,
18:02he was quite open in the Duchy of Cornwall
18:06and used to say how much income tax he paid.
18:08He didn't tell us how they came about the calculations,
18:11but he publicly said how much they paid.
18:14William, as Duke of Cornwall and Prince of Wales,
18:18is not telling us how much income tax he's paid.
18:20Isn't that interesting?
18:20Because that would be, that's a counterintuitive fact
18:22because you imagine more transparency
18:24rather than less transparency would be the direction.
18:26I wonder if it's part of this, certainly with William,
18:31I wonder if it's part of this not wanting to appear rich.
18:35I can't believe that any royal would be diddling HMRC
18:38because that would just be, I mean,
18:40the only person who's above prosecution is the monarch.
18:43It does give you a formidable tax advantage.
18:45It does give you a formidable tax advantage
18:48if you're being prosecuted in the name of your dad.
18:52But I can't...
18:53Inspectors of decree.
18:54I can't believe that all those civil servants
18:56and the keeper of the privy purse would allow them
18:58to get the tax bill wrong.
19:00But I do wonder, I do feel that William wants to be
19:04kind of like a man of the people
19:06and wants to be seen as another ordinary type of guy.
19:10Does publishing the millions he has to pay in tax?
19:14Because how much is he worth, again, do we think?
19:15Well, we don't know.
19:16We worked about 20 to 25 million a year in income
19:18from the Duchy of Cornwall.
19:19Yeah.
19:20I mean, that's a huge amount of money.
19:2120 million pounds a year, Richard.
19:25I mean, imagine how many tiaras both of us could buy with that.
19:27There's a caveat to this, isn't it?
19:28Which is making...
19:30I remember a neighbour of mine got really exercised
19:32when she found out that the cost of the coronation
19:34was about 70 million quid.
19:36And she said, why can't the King pay for that?
19:38And it seems to be quite obviously why.
19:40That's a head of state thing.
19:42Yeah.
19:42King isn't crowning himself for his own amusement.
19:45He's doing it because as head of state,
19:47that's what you do.
19:48And so it only seems to be right
19:49that that should be paid by the state.
19:51But that's a useful confusion sometimes, isn't it?
19:53Because how would you always know how to distinguish
19:55between what is a function of state
19:57and what is a private benefit?
20:00It's hard to call that.
20:01But I mean, going back to what we were sort of saying before,
20:04are the royals worth it?
20:06You know, that 20 million pounds a year to William,
20:08I mean, it's just...
20:08He's the same age as me.
20:10I mean, I just kind of...
20:10My mind boggles.
20:11And don't forget, that's from the 20 million
20:14doesn't include the money he will get
20:16as part of the sovereign grants to be a working royal.
20:19But then another thing, and this is a hard thing,
20:21but I mean, I think all of us would want
20:22to have a distinguish between our private resources
20:26and the resources that came to us by virtue of what we do.
20:29And I don't...
20:30In principle,
20:33in principle, I don't think it sounds unreasonable
20:36that public stuff should be funded out of public money
20:38and private resources should not be lent on for that.
20:44I always liken the royals to...
20:45There's that famous advert by Heineken.
20:48I don't think they do it anymore,
20:49but, you know, Heineken...
20:50Is it Heineken that it reaches parts...
20:52Other beers cannot reach.
20:53Other beers cannot.
20:54And I always think the royal family is a bit like
20:56the royal Heineken, the royal beer,
20:58because they can do...
20:59They can achieve things.
21:01They can convene people and bring people together
21:03in a way that I don't think anyone else in the world can.
21:06Look at the Trump state visit last year.
21:08There was the Princess of Wales
21:10dressed in Trump's favourite colour, gold.
21:13The amount of gold on that table
21:15at the Windsor Castle banquet was amazing.
21:17He was having the time of his life
21:20in the unprecedented second state visit.
21:22I mean, he absolutely loved it.
21:24And the result of that, Richard,
21:26meant that we had less bad tariffs
21:29than the rest of Europe.
21:30Yeah.
21:30And it meant that factories here didn't close.
21:34Soft power.
21:35Soft power.
21:35It's hard to do a profit and loss on that, isn't it?
21:38Because they're very hard to track those figures.
21:39But I always thought other people would say
21:40how much is the monarchy worth
21:42in terms of bringing in a tourist pound
21:44or dollar or yen,
21:45well, a significant amount.
21:47It's very hard to get any precise figures about that.
21:49But I still think,
21:50even if we didn't have a monarchy,
21:52the coffers of the Royal Collection Trust,
21:54which administer the opening of Holyrood House,
21:56Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle,
21:57still think the tourists would come.
21:59King Charles or no King Charles?
22:00I've got a hypothetical.
22:01Go on.
22:02In the event that it was thought
22:05that perhaps we could manage perfectly well
22:06without a monarchy,
22:07and it was abolished,
22:08and we would form a republic,
22:09which is perfectly doable.
22:10Whether it's wise or not is another question.
22:13Imagine the wrangling over who gets what.
22:16If the Windsorists were retired to private life,
22:19what would they take with them?
22:24Would the title in their art collection,
22:27their jewels,
22:29their landholding,
22:30would that just go to the state?
22:31Or would they think,
22:33hang on, that was ours,
22:34or that we,
22:35I don't know,
22:35it's an interesting one, isn't it?
22:36Well, some stuff is theirs personally.
22:38So...
22:39How do you untangle all that?
22:40Balmoral, Sandringham, Highgrove
22:43are all personal homes.
22:45Windsor Castle, Buckingham Palace,
22:47Kensington Palace are owned by the state.
22:49The crown jewels locked up in the tower.
22:51They're owned by the crown.
22:52They're owned by the crown.
22:54I would say,
22:55isn't that the state?
22:57I've got another thing to tell you.
22:58Tell me.
22:59Right, so I've looked this up actually,
23:01and the British monarchy
23:03in cost is about 100 million a year.
23:06The other monarchies,
23:07European monarchies,
23:08about half.
23:09I know.
23:10Some much less than that,
23:11but I think Denmark and the Netherlands
23:14are the next United terms of expense,
23:17and it's half that cost.
23:18Yeah.
23:18And they,
23:19I mean,
23:20they seem to live pretty high on the hog,
23:21but obviously our lot are super expensive,
23:23and that's partly to do with the splendour
23:26and the extent of their living.
23:28Wow.
23:29There's not enough transparency for us to know.
23:31Well,
23:32it's time to go for a break,
23:33but after the break,
23:34we'll be asking the question,
23:35how do you actually quit the firm
23:37if you should choose to do so?
23:39Well,
23:39we'll come back to that.
23:40But we have a question for you to mull over,
23:42also,
23:42and it's this.
23:43Is it true or false
23:45that the monarch requires no passport
23:48or driving licence?
23:51See you in a moment.
23:56Welcome back to Catching Up With The Royals,
23:58and a quick reminder that if you like what you hear
24:01and would like more content from us,
24:02then head to our social media channels.
24:05Search for Catching Up With The Royals.
24:07Now,
24:07before the break,
24:08the question was,
24:09true or false,
24:10the monarch requires a driving licence
24:12or passport?
24:13And the answer is,
24:13no,
24:14the monarch doesn't.
24:16Stopped by the cops,
24:18the monarch can say,
24:19no,
24:19no,
24:20be off with you.
24:21Stopped at immigration,
24:22no,
24:22no,
24:22be off with you.
24:22They're the fount of,
24:23the monarch is the fount of all law.
24:26Doesn't need that stuff.
24:27The monarch is the law.
24:29Discuss.
24:30Anyway,
24:31look,
24:31we were talking about quitting the firm,
24:33Emily.
24:33If it is a firm,
24:35of course,
24:35you have the right to hand,
24:37in your notice.
24:38And it has happened,
24:39hasn't it?
24:39But it's never been a particularly smooth business.
24:43No.
24:44So,
24:44obviously,
24:45the most infamous was the monarch quitting the top job,
24:51Edward VIII in 1936.
24:54It does seem a bit bonkers now,
24:57doesn't it,
24:57to think about it,
24:58but I think you have to put yourself back 100 years.
25:00And,
25:00you know,
25:00the monarch,
25:02well,
25:02still is,
25:03the monarch is the head of the church of England.
25:05But then,
25:06oh,
25:06sorry,
25:06yes,
25:06this is your,
25:07point of order.
25:08point of order.
25:08This is your domain.
25:10Talk to me.
25:11Supreme governor.
25:12Supreme governor.
25:12Not the head of the church.
25:13Sorry.
25:14Which is Jesus Christ.
25:15Okay,
25:15sorry.
25:15Supreme governor.
25:16Supreme governor.
25:17Small but important point.
25:18So,
25:18Jesus Christ is the head.
25:20Yes.
25:21And,
25:22the British monarch is,
25:24the supreme governor of the church of England.
25:25Supreme governor of the church of England.
25:26Yeah.
25:27Of course,
25:27after the break away from Rome,
25:30by Henry VIII in the 16th century.
25:32It's so complicated.
25:33So complicated.
25:33A ton of podcasts,
25:34just to scratch the surface of that.
25:36And also,
25:36of course,
25:36but at that point,
25:37he was still,
25:37he might have broken away from the church,
25:38but he was not church of England.
25:40Anyway,
25:41that was Elizabeth I,
25:42but we're not doing history.
25:43We're doing royals.
25:44Very good.
25:45Thanks.
25:45You're welcome.
25:46Elizabethan settlement.
25:47Elizabethan settlement.
25:48And of course,
25:48and then there was Edward VI,
25:50but.
25:50Really good.
25:51Yeah,
25:51I know.
25:52And Moriah and Mary,
25:53and your neck of the woods,
25:55the Louisian martyrs,
25:57I think.
25:58Oh,
25:58the Lewis.
25:59Yeah.
25:59Martyrs of Lewis.
26:00The martyrs,
26:00yeah.
26:01Anyway,
26:02bonfire.
26:03I love a Lewis bonfire.
26:04Those of you who know,
26:05who know?
26:05You know.
26:06But back to the Supreme Government
26:09of the Church of England,
26:10which was the monarch of Edward VIII,
26:12and therefore then,
26:13he couldn't marry a divorcee.
26:15So he had to quit.
26:16I mean,
26:16the thing,
26:17the Church of England's doctrine
26:18at that time has changed now,
26:19made it impossible for someone to,
26:21a divorcee to remarry
26:23if the person they'd originally married to
26:24was still living.
26:25Not permitted.
26:26And so the Archbishop of Canterbury
26:28said no way.
26:29It was hard to imagine
26:30just what a crisis this was,
26:32actually.
26:32It was an unthinkable thing
26:33that all of a sudden
26:34everyone had to think about.
26:36And it was a big trauma
26:36for all concerned.
26:38I think the deal was
26:39either you give up Mrs. Simpson
26:42or you abdicate
26:44and marry Mrs. Simpson
26:45or you marry Mrs. Simpson
26:47more ganetically,
26:48which means that she would
26:50not become queen.
26:51She would not become royal
26:53through the marriage.
26:55And he said no.
26:56And presumably,
26:56he could have stayed being king
26:59and had her as a mistress,
27:00like every other monarch before him.
27:02Yeah.
27:03And of course,
27:03the cat was sort of out of the bag
27:04now.
27:05And he upped the ante.
27:06But it's like one of those things,
27:07you know,
27:07the situation is no,
27:08but don't speak,
27:09don't tell.
27:10Yeah.
27:11People can kind of make
27:12their own arrangements.
27:13But as soon as you sort of
27:14make that explicit,
27:15then you have to tidy it all up
27:16and you know,
27:17you have to make a decision.
27:18It became official.
27:20It became official.
27:20And I think,
27:21I mean,
27:22there have been many books written,
27:24of course,
27:24famously,
27:25Wallace and Edward VIII
27:29are buried side by side
27:30in the grounds of Frogmore House
27:32just by Frogmore Cottage,
27:35where another American
27:38married a British prince
27:41and went to live
27:42after their married life.
27:43I've always thought it was quite funny
27:44that Harry and Meghan
27:45went to live in Frogmore Cottage,
27:47which is very,
27:47very close
27:49to the graves.
27:50Almost as if
27:50there were an element
27:51of deliberation
27:52in whoever chose that for them.
27:54Well, do you know what though?
27:55I broke the story
27:56that they were going to move
27:57to Frogmore Cottage.
27:58And of course,
27:58at the time,
27:59everybody thought
28:00that they were going to move
28:01into one of the
28:03vacated apartments
28:04in Kensington Palace.
28:06Everyone thought
28:06they were going to live
28:07next door to Kate and William.
28:08And there was,
28:09I think,
28:10Kate and William have
28:10apartment 1A
28:11and I think apartment 1
28:11was being renovated
28:12and that was genuinely
28:14what was going to happen.
28:16But quite,
28:17I mean,
28:17we as the journos
28:18were always a bit late
28:19to the party.
28:19But what happened was
28:21Carrie and Meghan
28:22spent very little time
28:24at KP.
28:25They were living
28:26in Nottingham Cottage
28:27and they didn't want to be,
28:28they disliked it so much
28:30that they rented
28:31a place near Soho Farmhouse
28:33in the Cotswolds.
28:34They spent very little time
28:35at Kensington Palace
28:36and then when they said
28:37they didn't want to move
28:38into apartment 1,
28:39somewhere had to be found
28:40for them.
28:41This whole episode
28:42we've got to be on
28:42why royals don't like
28:44living in official accommodation
28:45like the king and the queen
28:46don't want to live
28:47in Buckingham Palace.
28:48No.
28:48Nobody wants to live
28:49in Buckingham Palace.
28:50No one wants to live in BP.
28:51When,
28:52I think soon,
28:53this year maybe,
28:55we're going to get
28:55an updated audit
28:58of the money
28:59that's been spent
28:59from the Sovereign Grant
29:00that's been uplifted
29:01for the last,
29:02for the 10 years
29:02of resurfacing.
29:04It's going to be
29:05interesting to see
29:06how much it's cost
29:09and we should go
29:10round it,
29:10Richard.
29:11I've never been there.
29:12Have you not?
29:13No.
29:13Oh, by the way,
29:14I hear that they are
29:16personally quite tight,
29:18that they might have
29:19all these mega millions,
29:21but they don't like
29:23spending their own money.
29:25Well,
29:25there's a great story
29:25about Queen Mary
29:27who used to go
29:29to visit people
29:30and if she came
29:30to visit,
29:31people used to have
29:32to hide all their
29:32bibelos away
29:33because if she liked
29:34something,
29:34she'd just expect it
29:35to be given to her.
29:36It's a royal favour.
29:37And she used to go
29:38to her shops
29:38when they were
29:39closed to the public
29:40and go,
29:40that's nice,
29:40that's nice.
29:41And somebody would
29:42go around after
29:42and wrap it up
29:43in brown paper
29:44and deliver it
29:44to Buckingham Palace.
29:45No.
29:46Yeah.
29:46I think that sense
29:48of entitlement
29:49still does happen.
29:50I heard this great story
29:53about Meghan
29:54that on the eve
29:55of the Queen's funeral,
29:57which was a Monday,
29:58she got very worried
30:00about gloves.
30:01Now,
30:02this is my opinion,
30:03this is what I was told,
30:04she got very worried
30:05about gloves,
30:05my opinion is,
30:06because the gloves
30:06that she actually wore
30:07on the day of the Queen's funeral
30:08were elbow length.
30:09In fact,
30:10comparisons were made
30:11to Wallis Simpson,
30:12who was a very stylish lady,
30:14but also liked
30:14an elbow length glove.
30:15I was told
30:16that on the eve
30:17of the funeral,
30:18she got one
30:19of her people
30:20to ring
30:21one of the,
30:22a couple of the big
30:23French fashion houses
30:25that have stores
30:26on Regent Street
30:27and wanted them opened
30:29so that one of her minions
30:31could go and get
30:32some gloves.
30:33I think in the end
30:34the keys couldn't be found
30:35or burglar arm codes
30:36or people couldn't be,
30:37you know,
30:38stretched.
30:39And so in the end
30:40she didn't get
30:41whatever gloves.
30:42I think she wanted
30:42shorter gloves.
30:43I think she suddenly got,
30:44this is my personal opinion,
30:45I think she suddenly
30:46got really worried.
30:46But that sense of,
30:48oh my goodness,
30:49I need gloves,
30:50I need gloves,
30:50they're the wrong gloves,
30:51get me new gloves,
30:51somebody go,
30:52go.
30:52So that,
30:53it's quite,
30:54that optics
30:55is very problematic,
30:57isn't it?
30:57It's a pop star behind.
30:57The thing is,
30:58you get used to
30:59the world being nice to you
31:01in about a day.
31:02The interesting thing
31:03is getting used to
31:04the world no longer
31:04caring about you.
31:05So when,
31:06you know,
31:06of course,
31:07Megan may sort of
31:08fret about her gloves,
31:09I don't know,
31:09but once you've stopped
31:10being the reason
31:12people are bothered
31:13about gloves,
31:14i.e. a member
31:14of the royal family,
31:15you need to really
31:17adjust very quickly,
31:18to trim very quickly
31:19to a world
31:20in which your
31:22caprices
31:23might not carry
31:24the weight
31:24that they did
31:25beforehand,
31:26right?
31:26So there's one thing
31:27about quitting,
31:27isn't it?
31:28All of a sudden,
31:28the world,
31:29what does the world
31:29owe you if all of a sudden
31:30you've handed back
31:31your crown?
31:32And I think that was
31:33the mistake that
31:33Harry and Megan made
31:34because they are
31:36trying to make
31:37their own money now,
31:39all well and good,
31:40well done them,
31:41but because they have
31:43literally bitten,
31:44publicly bitten,
31:45the hand that fed them
31:46in terms of being
31:46so critical
31:48of the royals,
31:50that was the reason
31:50why everyone was
31:51interested in them.
31:52So whilst at the time
31:53them doing Oprah
31:55and doing the Netflix
31:57sort of, you know,
31:57speaking their truth
31:58and saying how victimised
32:00they were and how
32:00unfair it all was,
32:01was probably quite cathartic
32:03and obviously we all
32:04lapped it up,
32:05didn't we?
32:05In the long run,
32:06it wasn't very sensible
32:08as a strategic move
32:10because they want people
32:12to buy what they are selling,
32:15be it Harry's life coaching
32:16or Megan's jam
32:18and if they've been...
32:20But, you know,
32:21if she wants us
32:22to buy what she's selling,
32:25we have to believe in her
32:27and we want to buy into her
32:28and she's literally told us
32:30that she hated
32:31the one thing
32:31that we were interested in her for,
32:32being royal.
32:33But do you think
32:33the plan is that you shift
32:34from being interesting
32:35because you're a member
32:36of the British royal family
32:37to being interesting
32:37because you're kind of
32:38like the Kardashians,
32:40that there's a sort of
32:41another version of that,
32:42a sort of secular version
32:43of that, if you like,
32:44where people were interested
32:45in them for their own sake
32:46rather than for them
32:48doing anything.
32:49Well, jam's nice.
32:50And I don't want to be horrible
32:51to either Megan or Harry
32:53and I think, you know,
32:54deprogramming from their weird life
32:56is obviously going to be
32:57complicated and difficult
32:58and we wish them the best
33:00but I'm not sure how...
33:02Well, yeah, I think I do really.
33:04I think I do
33:04because I, you know...
33:06I think we should.
33:07No, I think we should.
33:08I think with,
33:09I think with the,
33:09I always think,
33:10I always call it
33:10the Emily Andrews Venn diagram.
33:12So you've got three circles.
33:14Okay.
33:14You've got one,
33:15are you with me?
33:15Are you with me?
33:16One circle is celebrity.
33:18Yeah.
33:19The next circle is,
33:20you know,
33:22history.
33:23Yeah.
33:23The bottom circle
33:25is the news
33:26and in that middle,
33:27the middle of those three circles
33:28is the royal family.
33:29Yeah.
33:29So in a case,
33:30sort of to your point,
33:32if you take away the celebrity
33:34and you take away the news
33:35and you take away the history,
33:37what are the royal family?
33:38There isn't really much there.
33:40It's the combination
33:40of all those three things
33:42that make them so interesting,
33:43that makes them,
33:44you know,
33:44us want to talk about them.
33:46And makes them
33:47being able to earn a living.
33:48And makes them earn a living.
33:49The kind of living
33:50they want to earn.
33:50But then when they are
33:51the working royals,
33:54sometimes they feel quite trapped.
33:55And sometimes they want to quit.
33:57And also the other thing I'd say
33:58in favour of Harry
34:00is I understand why
34:02as a father
34:03you would be concerned
34:03for the safety of your children.
34:05And if you walk away
34:06from the royal family
34:06and all of a sudden
34:07you no longer get that protection,
34:09nonetheless,
34:09interest may endure.
34:11And I can quite understand
34:11why you would have anxieties
34:12that your children
34:13might be targeted
34:14and that you would feel
34:16that perhaps
34:17a degree of security
34:18would be available
34:19to you for that.
34:20And so the things
34:22you walk away from
34:23and perhaps
34:23don't fully anticipate
34:24what that's going to look like
34:26and what that's going to cost you
34:27and how different
34:27your life is going to be.
34:29Because if you've got security
34:31and if you've got
34:32stuff that comes with that,
34:33you know,
34:34kind of private jets
34:35or whatever,
34:35that's not a cheap life,
34:39is it?
34:39It's a very expensive life.
34:40I don't know how much
34:41you need to earn
34:41to live that sort of a life,
34:43but it's pretty hard
34:44to do that, I think.
34:45I think the security bill...
34:45Take more than jam.
34:46No, for sure.
34:47And I think that's...
34:48Or spread.
34:49That's why.
34:49Or spread.
34:50Spread.
34:51Spread.
34:52Or the sparkling...
34:56No, Emily,
34:57stop the accents now.
34:59Or the sparkling brute.
35:00She keeps calling it brute.
35:00I'm like,
35:01it's bubbles.
35:01What are you doing, love?
35:02Anyway,
35:03their security bill
35:04is about two million a year,
35:05so you can completely understand
35:07why Harry
35:09has mounted
35:10this huge
35:12campaign.
35:12It is a campaign.
35:13It is a military man campaign
35:14to get his
35:16Metropolitan Police
35:17security
35:19reinstated.
35:20But if,
35:21as is indicated
35:23currently,
35:24he does get
35:25that reinstated,
35:26that's going to be
35:27a huge cost
35:28to the British taxpayer.
35:29That, by the way,
35:30the security doesn't come out
35:31of the sovereign grant.
35:32That's out of us.
35:32It comes out
35:33of the Metropolitan Police budget.
35:35Yeah.
35:35Because the Metropolitan Police,
35:36which for those...
35:38Metropolitan Police
35:39is London's police force,
35:40and they have a special
35:43security operation
35:43which protect
35:45VIPs,
35:46not just the royals,
35:47but, you know,
35:47the Prime Minister
35:48and senior...
35:49Got a hypothetical for you.
35:51Go for it.
35:52In the event
35:53of some international
35:54outrage,
35:55not an unimaginable
35:56situation,
35:58the head of state
35:59might be compromised
36:00by the kidnap
36:01of his grandchildren.
36:03Yeah?
36:05It's bad, isn't it?
36:06That could be really,
36:07really bad.
36:07God, that gives me...
36:08That makes me...
36:10Actually,
36:10that's given me
36:11a physical reaction.
36:12But before we go,
36:13one question
36:14for you.
36:16Which of the following
36:17unusual facilities
36:18can be found
36:20inside Buckingham Palace?
36:22An ATM,
36:23a post office,
36:25or a police station?
36:26We'll be back after this.
36:32Welcome back
36:33to Catching Up
36:34with the Royals.
36:35Before the break,
36:36I asked which
36:36of the following
36:37unusual facilities
36:38can be found
36:38inside Buckingham Palace?
36:40An ATM,
36:41a post office,
36:42or a police station?
36:43What do you reckon, Richard?
36:45Police station.
36:46Well, you're right,
36:47but
36:49all of them.
36:50All of them.
36:50And I've seen
36:51all of them
36:52inside Buckingham Palace.
36:53And
36:53who do you think
36:54provides the ATM
36:55inside BP?
36:57I want to say
36:58Coots and Coots.
36:58You are absolutely correct.
37:00Yes!
37:00It's a Coots ATM.
37:02It's a free standing.
37:04I actually used it
37:05just so that I could,
37:06you know,
37:07say that I could use
37:08the cash machine
37:09in Buckingham Palace.
37:10It's part of the
37:11NatWest group,
37:12actually, yeah.
37:12Is it?
37:13Yeah.
37:13I bet your account's
37:14with Coots,
37:15isn't it?
37:15It's not.
37:16No.
37:16But it will be.
37:17It's with another member
37:17of the NatWest group.
37:19NatWest.
37:19There you are.
37:20I'm very excited
37:21because I've got
37:22the red box here.
37:23It's your turn.
37:24This is viewers' questions.
37:26Yes.
37:26The most important
37:27bit of the show.
37:28Right.
37:28Let's have a little look.
37:29Okay.
37:32I've made a mess of it.
37:33Hang on.
37:34There we go.
37:34Careful of your mic.
37:35Oh!
37:36Oh, relevant.
37:37This is from Maisie.
37:38Okay.
37:39And she asks,
37:40has Harry's public image
37:41taken a turn for the worse
37:42since he no longer
37:43has access
37:44to the palace aides?
37:46Oh, good question, Maisie.
37:49I mean,
37:50if you look at the opinion polls,
37:51his popularity
37:52has really nosedived.
37:54And as has Meghan's.
37:56I mean,
37:56he used to be one of the
37:57most popular members
37:59of the royal family.
38:00And I remember writing
38:01that Prince Harry
38:02was the one member
38:03of the royal family
38:03you'd love to go down
38:04the pub with.
38:05They're the only one
38:05you can imagine
38:06going to have a pint.
38:07Yeah, have a pint.
38:07Although one time
38:08did have to buy him a drink.
38:10He didn't buy me a drink.
38:11Hey, hey, hey, hey.
38:12More on that, please.
38:14Oh, we were in Chile
38:18and on a royal tour.
38:20And on royal tours,
38:21it's kind of,
38:24it's sort of like convention
38:26that if you go
38:27and follow them around
38:28and report on what they're doing,
38:31then there's a private
38:34drinks reception
38:37and we got to the bar
38:38and Harry is a delight.
38:41He's so fun.
38:42He's exactly,
38:42well, he was anyway.
38:44I think he lost a bit
38:44of his joie de vivre
38:46before he left the UK.
38:47I really hope
38:48he's got it back now.
38:49But he was so funny.
38:50He's like Tigger
38:50bounding around
38:51and he was like,
38:52hey, Em,
38:53he comes into the bar.
38:55I said,
38:55oh, hi, Harry.
38:56I said, oh,
38:57and he's like,
38:57oh, you got a drink.
38:58I said, oh,
38:58you not got a drink.
38:59He said,
39:00I said, oh,
39:01I'll get you a drink.
39:01I'll buy you a drink.
39:02And I went,
39:02oh, thanks so much.
39:04I'll have half a pint
39:05or whatever.
39:06I can't remember what it was,
39:07whatever the local lager is.
39:09Did you think
39:09that it was an unusual thing
39:11that someone offered
39:11to buy a pint?
39:12I don't know.
39:15I think
39:17that they probably
39:18don't think that much
39:20about who is paying
39:22for things.
39:23I've certainly been
39:24on royal tours
39:25where William and Kate
39:26were in Bhutan
39:27and William and Kate
39:28wanted to buy
39:29some jewellery,
39:30I think,
39:30at the foot
39:31of the Tiger's Messing Up
39:32monastery
39:32and they didn't
39:33have any cash
39:34and equally,
39:35Charles,
39:36when he loves
39:37to go to a local
39:37market on tour,
39:38he doesn't have any cash.
39:40Now, you can kind
39:40of understand that
39:41because they're in
39:42almost like a bubble
39:44when they're on tour.
39:45So who has time
39:46to go and change
39:47your tenner?
39:48You don't go to a cash
39:48point,
39:49even though there is
39:49one in Buckingham Palace.
39:50Even though there is
39:51a cash point
39:51in Buckingham Palace,
39:52but that's probably
39:53giving out pounds.
39:54It's not giving out euros
39:56or I can't remember
39:57the currency in Bhutan now.
39:58So I think that's
39:59kind of understandable.
40:00But I think maybe
40:01the sense that I always got,
40:03even with Harry and William,
40:05who are very down-to-worth,
40:06was that they were
40:06always kind of used
40:07to people paying for them.
40:10Yeah.
40:11I suppose if things
40:12come your way,
40:13you don't really think
40:14about it that much,
40:15do you?
40:15And also,
40:15I suppose you have
40:16to remember that,
40:17and this is part
40:17of the reason,
40:18I think,
40:20for Harry and Meghan
40:21leaving the royal family,
40:23that they were effectively
40:26being paid for by dad.
40:28So, you know,
40:28we've been talking
40:29this episode about funding.
40:32We talked about
40:33the monarch's funding.
40:34We talked about
40:35the Prince of Wales' funding
40:36as the heir to the throne.
40:37When Harry and William
40:38were growing up,
40:39it was their dad
40:40who was paying
40:41for everything for them.
40:42Fine when they were at Eton.
40:44Fine when they were
40:46in their military
40:47and at Sandhurst.
40:48But then when they were men
40:50in their late 20s
40:51and early 30s,
40:52they couldn't earn
40:53their own money
40:54because they were
40:55working royals.
40:56And they had to rely
40:57on handouts for dad.
40:59And particularly
41:00when they both started
41:01their own families,
41:02William with Kate
41:03and Harry with Meghan,
41:04then, you know,
41:05when you start
41:06your own family,
41:07you want your independence.
41:09You might have children.
41:10You've got to have
41:11a bigger, you know,
41:12all that kind of thing.
41:12To continually have to
41:13kind of ask your dad.
41:15It's quite embarrassing,
41:16isn't it?
41:16I don't know.
41:17It's just such an unimaginably
41:18weird life to me.
41:19Yeah, it is.
41:20And also one that's,
41:21I can quite understand
41:22why you would not want
41:23to shine a light upon it
41:24when so many people
41:25are struggling to pay bills,
41:26right?
41:27Well, and also
41:27in a cost of living crisis,
41:28I think it doesn't
41:29behove the family
41:31in a particularly good light
41:33to be seen
41:34as unimaginably wealthy.
41:36Yeah.
41:36And for Harry,
41:36so I think we have to,
41:37so to Maisie's question,
41:39which was,
41:39has the loss
41:40of the courtiers
41:41kind of
41:44served Harry a disservice?
41:45I mean,
41:46I think it just depends
41:47on who
41:48your staff are.
41:50I mean,
41:51infamously,
41:52Meghan and Harry
41:53can't keep hold
41:54of their staff
41:55that quickly.
41:56They do seem
41:58to go through staff
41:58quite quickly.
42:01And...
42:01The Duchess of Difficult.
42:03The Duchess of Difficult,
42:04yes.
42:05And I think
42:06if the really,
42:07really good members
42:08of staff,
42:09and this was probably
42:10the same with celebrities,
42:11right?
42:11You would know this
42:11better than me,
42:12because of course
42:13you are an A-list
42:14celeb,
42:14Rich.
42:15But it depends
42:16on the calibre
42:17of the people around you,
42:18but crucially,
42:19they have to be able
42:20to stand up to
42:21and say no
42:22to their employer
42:23whilst also
42:25doing that
42:26in a way
42:26that they still
42:27have the confidence
42:28and trust
42:29of their employer
42:29who is ultimately
42:30paying their wage.
42:31It's quite a difficult
42:32balancing act,
42:33isn't it?
42:34It's a very difficult one.
42:35And I imagine
42:36to have somebody,
42:37it's essential
42:38to have someone
42:39in your corner
42:39who has the power
42:41and the trust
42:42to tell you
42:43the difficult stuff
42:43you need to hear.
42:44If you don't have that,
42:46you're really lacking something.
42:48For me,
42:49that's why
42:50Harry and Meghan's
42:51strategy,
42:53or on the face of it,
42:54lack of strategy,
42:56becomes so
42:58explicable.
42:59Because I think
43:00that they've gone
43:01from being
43:02in my Andrews Venn diagram
43:04in the middle
43:04being royal
43:05with all the associations
43:07that that comes with it
43:08to moving out to America
43:10to becoming
43:11just in inverted commas
43:13celebs.
43:13Now,
43:14that's great,
43:16but I think
43:17they've had a lot
43:17of yes people
43:19round them.
43:20And also,
43:21if,
43:22as,
43:22I mean,
43:23Meghan's always denied
43:23all the bullying claims,
43:24it's got to be said,
43:25but if it is correct,
43:28then
43:29it's quite difficult
43:30to tell her
43:31what she doesn't want to hear.
43:32Do you know what else
43:32has run out?
43:34Time.
43:34Are we talking
43:35too long again?
43:36I think so.
43:37Well,
43:37we could talk about this
43:38for hours and hours and hours,
43:39but we haven't got
43:39any time left
43:40and we have to say goodbye.
43:42We do.
43:43Well,
43:43don't forget,
43:44everybody,
43:44that you can send
43:45your questions.
43:45We love the questions,
43:47so please send more
43:47of your questions
43:48to royals
43:49at
43:52spirit-studios.com.
43:53We love the questions.
43:54Keep coming.
43:56That's all for now.
43:57We'll be with you
43:57every Thursday
43:58wherever you get
43:59your podcasts,
44:00over on our YouTube channel,
44:02but you can stream us now
44:03on 5,
44:04so until we meet again,
44:06it's goodbye from me.
44:07And goodbye from me.
44:23We'll be with you.
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