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00:00On today's show, you say if my sister doesn't wake up and accept she needs help today, she's going to
00:05end up dead.
00:06Yeah.
00:06What is she on?
00:07Heroin, amphetamines.
00:10She fell asleep with her newborn baby.
00:13I felt it rolled out my arm.
00:23Where was the money?
00:24On top of the shelf in the sitting room.
00:26She knew it was there?
00:27Yeah.
00:27You have a lanket!
00:28Your sister is!
00:29Yes, you are!
00:29Your sister is!
00:30Yes, you said the money went missing on Wednesday.
00:33You're an absolute disgusting.
00:35You knew it was all right.
00:36You don't know.
00:37You can sit there.
00:38She's pinched.
00:43Keep out.
00:44There's nothing to do with you.
00:46You have just come along to support her.
00:48It's like I know who I am.
00:50She is innocent, she's done nothing wrong.
00:52Would it be all right if I went to a break?
00:54If you weren't.
00:55It's not my shorts.
00:56It's not my shorts.
00:57It's not my shorts.
00:57It's not my shorts.
00:59It's not my shorts.
01:12It's not mine.
01:19okay.
01:20My friends, good morning and a big, big welcome to the show.
01:22Now, my first guest today, Amy, says that she is really desperate,
01:25and I mean desperate, to get help for her sister Donna's drug addiction.
01:28Amy says that Donna's drug abuse spiralled out of control seven years ago
01:32after the tragic death of her eight-day-old baby.
01:35Now, Amy is determined to make Donna face facts today,
01:38and she says, look, it would be very easy to sugarcoat this,
01:42but I am talking on behalf of our family.
01:44This girl needs a reality check before it is too late.
01:48Real respect to this lady for coming on the show.
01:50Amy, give her a round of applause that way.
02:01I always reckon, more than any other type of story on The Jeremy Kyle Show,
02:05that these are the most difficult for family members to do,
02:08because you come here and you tell us, and you will tell us in detail
02:12about Donna and the help she needs, but people do sugarcoat it.
02:15I said in the introduction, they say, they're there.
02:17You're not really like that, are you?
02:19No.
02:20How old was she when she first got into it?
02:21I know you know that she's doing great.
02:23I think I...
02:25Look at me.
02:26First time I ever knew was when she was 15 years old.
02:29She told me.
02:31I must have been about 10.
02:32What was she taking?
02:33She was like, heroin.
02:35Heroin.
02:35At 15 years of age.
02:37How bad is her drug addiction?
02:39Very.
02:40What is she on?
02:43Heroin.
02:44I'm cut.
02:45Amphetamines.
02:47Probably have everything she's got her hands on.
02:48Does she smoke it?
02:49Does she inject it?
02:50Inject.
02:51And she's been doing this for almost half her life.
02:54She's 31 years of age.
02:55Now, I said this in the introduction, and I'm not going to lie to anybody in this studio
03:01or at home.
03:01This is a very, very, very difficult story for us all to talk about because there are
03:07all sorts of legal ramifications, but we can be factual.
03:11I said in the introduction that her drug abuse spiralled after the death of her baby.
03:14That works, yeah.
03:15Can you tell us the facts behind that story?
03:19Yeah, she'd had the baby in hospital.
03:22She had some sleeping pills, diazepine.
03:26Did the hospital give her those pills?
03:27No.
03:29Somebody who's not here slipped her diazepine after she'd given birth to her child in a
03:36hospital.
03:37Fact.
03:37Yeah.
03:38What happened next?
03:39She must have fell asleep with the baby in her arms, and the baby went to the floor.
03:46She fell asleep, and this is, you know, I'm just being straight, factual.
03:51Please listen.
03:52She fell asleep with her newborn baby, eight days of age, in her arms.
03:57The baby slipped from her arms, struck its head on the floor, I believe.
04:03Yeah.
04:04We also point out that over a manner of days, and this all came out in the investigation,
04:15she was checked, I think, by a couple of midwives, certainly a health visitor.
04:19There seemed no problem.
04:21How many days later?
04:23Eight days old.
04:25She passed.
04:26She passed away with a six centimetre fracture in her skull that had been undetected.
04:33Yeah.
04:35It was massively shocking for everybody.
04:41It's massively important for me to legally tell you that there was an open verdict, and
04:47no proof that that fall caused that, or there was intent in what took place.
04:54People will surmise what they want to surmise.
04:57I need to do that in the right way.
04:59Yeah.
04:59I want you to understand that this shouldn't be about me today.
05:02It should be about your family.
05:04I know it's difficult, and I can see it etched all over your face, and I will always, when
05:08I sit here, it's very easy to come out and shout and scream.
05:11I look in your eyes, and I know that this is difficult.
05:13And it's that moment, isn't it, where you sort of want to help her, but she will not
05:17help her by wiping her backside.
05:19I understand.
05:19You have to tell her, because this show today can genuinely, genuinely help her.
05:24But I don't deal with people who make excuses, okay?
05:28Yeah, I understand.
05:29Donna's on the Jeremy Kyle show that way.
05:40I love you.
05:42You never do.
05:45Please, don't talk to me.
05:47I'm ready.
05:49I'm ready.
05:49It's not a problem getting clean.
05:51It's staying clean.
05:53You know that?
05:53Well, that's a problem, that's it.
05:55Yeah, it's a problem, but I need to deal with it.
05:58I need to deal with the screaming.
05:59I am done with it, yeah?
06:00You won't be able to deal with it on drugs, will you, Donna?
06:03I'm not.
06:04I've done 12 days.
06:05I've done 12 days, yeah, fair enough.
06:07It's not a long time.
06:08It's not a long time, but I know what I've done wrong.
06:12You know what I know.
06:13You know, I admit everything I have done wrong.
06:16I have not touched heroin for 11 months, Amy.
06:20You can get my test results.
06:22I know you don't believe me, because you'll never believe me, because I've told that many
06:25lies.
06:26You know that.
06:27For 11 months, I've been cleaning off heroin.
06:29Four months, I've been cleaning off my methadone.
06:32I've done that on my own.
06:35I'm ready to do this all for me.
06:37For me.
06:38Yeah, for us.
06:40For us all.
06:41For us all.
06:43Donna, welcome to the Jeremy Kyle Show.
06:45Do you believe her, Amy, when she says she hasn't touched hard drugs for 12 days?
06:49No.
06:49No, neither do I.
06:52It's very difficult for us, this, okay?
06:54Because I know, after 10 years, that anybody who's on hard drugs, or any sort of drug, has
07:00an addiction will make an excuse.
07:02I've made a lot of excuses, Jeremy.
07:04A lot.
07:05You started when you were 15 years of age.
07:08You came from a decent family with nice sisters.
07:11Explain to me how, at 15, 15, you're injecting heroin.
07:17Very easily and very gullible.
07:19At 15?
07:20Yes.
07:21I know what I am.
07:23I know what I have done.
07:24No, no, that doesn't wash, listen, I know it.
07:27You can say what you want to me.
07:28No, no, no, no.
07:29But you've spent half of your life on hard drugs.
07:31I want to know, the first time you stuck a needle wherever you stuck it, at 15 years
07:36of age, what did that do to you?
07:41What did it do to you?
07:43It destroyed my life.
07:45Then why haven't you done something about it sooner?
07:48I haven't been ready.
07:49What do you mean you haven't been ready?
07:50I haven't been ready.
07:51I've had a lot to deal with since.
07:53But this is my point.
07:54It would be very easy to look at this story, and I don't want you to take this the wrong
07:58way, because however I do this this morning, there will be people who criticise it.
08:02A lot of people watching this will go, this is unbelievably sad.
08:04This woman lost her baby.
08:06The other half will think, well, that's just a pitiful excuse, because actually, you were
08:09on drugs from 15.
08:11Tell me about what happened when you lost your child.
08:14I was in hospital.
08:16I gave birth.
08:18That same night, I had my mother to bring me a diazepam.
08:24I took the diazepam.
08:26Why would you take a drug in a hospital brought to you by somebody else?
08:28I don't know.
08:29Why would you take a drug in a hospital brought by somebody else when you're in a medical centre?
08:33Why would you do that?
08:34I don't know.
08:35So you took the diazepam into the hospital?
08:38Yes.
08:39Why would you do that?
08:40Why would you do that?
08:40I took half, I took half a 10-mill diazepam.
08:44My baby woke up for a feed early hours in the morning.
08:49I did the natural thing, as a mother does.
08:51I was fed at wind, I changed it, and I basically rocked her back asleep as I was rocking her
08:57asleep.
08:58I fell asleep.
08:59I fell to roll down my arm.
09:01I was too slow.
09:06Okay.
09:06I didn't have time.
09:09At the end of this, you might not hate me, but I'm going to ask you a question.
09:12I won't hate you.
09:14When the tragedy happened, and you lost your daughter, and I made the point when we were
09:18being factual before that several people had checked her over a series of days.
09:22Yes.
09:24You kept quiet about her falling on the floor, didn't you?
09:27What actually happened, yes.
09:29Why?
09:30Because I didn't want people thinking bad of me.
09:33So you knew?
09:35If I'm honest?
09:36What people would think of me, yes.
09:39That can't be, as I've said, it was an open verdict.
09:43That can't be deemed to be the reason.
09:45But the point I want to get to is this.
09:47It's because of the drugs, yes.
09:48You blame yourself, don't you?
09:49Of course I do.
09:50Why wasn't that enough for you to stop putting that stuff in your body?
09:55Because that stuff...
09:57I don't know.
09:58I don't know.
09:59That stuff was part of that process.
10:02I know.
10:03I just don't know.
10:04What did your dad die of?
10:06How do we know the dose?
10:09Sorry?
10:09How do we know the dose?
10:12I know you watch this show and you think, oh, all he does is show.
10:15Let me ask you a question.
10:16I can't even imagine that.
10:18My dad dies of a heroin overdose.
10:20I was on drugs and I had a tragedy with my daughter.
10:23What more needs to happen to you then, Dawn?
10:25Do you just need to die yourself and destroy your family?
10:27Because that's what's going to happen.
10:28That's what I felt like doing at the time, yeah.
10:31And I read about you this morning and I just...
10:33You go, you're ready now.
10:35Why are you ready now?
10:36I'm 31 years of age.
10:38I've got DBT.
10:39I've got a breath warm.
10:40I've got high-grade cervical cell.
10:42I'm going to be dead if I don't do something about it now.
10:48After this break, just...
10:49I've got a family who love me.
10:51They do love you and they are...
10:54They manoeuvre between desperation, don't you, Ames, and anger
10:58because they haven't seen you give them anything tangible
11:00to believe that there's anything else they can do.
11:04So, after this break, we have Dr. Aaron Ghosh,
11:06our doctor who I know has medically examined you,
11:08and other people from the family,
11:09including your younger sister, Chelsea,
11:11and your mother, Pat.
11:12I'm right back.
11:13Don't go anywhere.
11:14For goodness sake, you're going to die.
11:17I am ready to change, Jeremy.
11:20Just tell the truth.
11:23I used MCAT three days ago.
11:25Right.
11:43Please tell me there's nobody else in the frame.
11:46There is nobody else.
11:47The DNA test results show that Doug is not the child's biological.
11:51How can I be?
11:54Why are you 100% sure?
11:56Keith's not got very good swimming.
12:01How sure are you?
12:02100%.
12:03100%.
12:05I am 100% sure she's not my daughter.
12:10Keith is the father of your baby.
12:14You're not the child's barge.
12:16Don't go away!
12:17Don't go away!
12:20You are her barge.
12:24It's not your baby, my friend.
12:30That is your daughter!
12:32You are not the child's barge.
12:34You are not the child's barge.
12:36He needs loving by both parents.
12:40Every child should know who its father is.
12:42Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.
12:43Bye.
12:50Do you need to find out who is the father of the baby?
12:53Do you need that all-important DNA test?
12:56If you're 18 or 18 or over and you want to be considered for the show, text the word TALK
12:59TODAY plus your name to 63334.
13:01Text costs 25 pence plus one standard rate message.
13:04You can call my team today.
13:05It's 090111.
13:07It's 123456.
13:09Course costs 25 pence plus your network access charge.
13:12Or email talk at ITV.com to get in touch with one of my team.
13:24Thank you very much indeed.
13:25Welcome back.
13:25Before the break, I was talking to Amy and Donna.
13:27Donna's story is, by anybody's standards, shocking.
13:30And as I've said already, people will make up their own minds.
13:32You make a big thing before the break that you've been clean from heroin for 12 days.
13:36I don't believe that at all.
13:37No, heroin for 11 months.
13:39What have you been clean off for 12 days?
13:41Because you look like you're still in trouble.
13:42You never take any drugs in 12 days.
13:43I haven't took no drugs in 12 days.
13:46I've been on my medication.
13:47So if you were able to do that in the last 12 days, why haven't you been able to do
13:50that
13:50in the last 12 years?
13:54Stupidiness.
13:55And you keep saying, I am ready now.
13:57What does that mean?
13:58I'm ready.
13:59Ready for what?
14:00For me.
14:02Before I've done it, I've got clean before I can get clean.
14:05It's staying clean, but I've done it for everybody else.
14:08Who's Chelsea?
14:09My younger sister.
14:10Let's get Chelsea on the Jeremy Kyle show.
14:20Welcome to the show.
14:22See, people watching this will go, what are you doing?
14:25This girl's ready to change her life.
14:28And I know you're very shy, but you don't trust her at all, do you?
14:31No.
14:32Tell her the truth.
14:33I know you've been taking drugs.
14:35Missed your wife, I can tell by the look on your face.
14:37How can I?
14:39That's your big sister.
14:40Was she ever a big sister to you?
14:41No.
14:46You need to sort your life, don't you?
14:50Today's about complete honesty.
14:51Tell this audience here and at home the lengths you used to go to to score heroin.
14:57Prostitution.
14:59Used to sell you a body?
15:00I have done, yes.
15:02Tell me the worst moment in that.
15:05Worst moment in that?
15:06Being caught by the police.
15:07Being what?
15:08Being caught by the police.
15:12Just for money to buy heroin.
15:15Look at your sisters.
15:19You're tearing us apart.
15:20I know.
15:21I know what you're doing.
15:23I know.
15:24But you see, people will say that's self-pity.
15:27No, I'm not pity.
15:28It's not pity.
15:30Your mum's watching this in the green room.
15:31Can we just, can we bring that picture up to Pat?
15:36Devastated.
15:37Utterly, utterly devastated.
15:38I'm going to put it in for a while.
15:39You put the whole family to hell and you put yourself through hell.
15:43I'm just going to, I'm just going to get your mum if I can.
15:46Hold on one second, ladies.
15:47Thanks, mate.
15:51Pat.
15:52Pat.
15:53I can't do this.
15:54Look at me.
15:55Right.
15:56This is your only time in your life where you have to do something.
15:59Look at me.
15:59Look at me a minute, please.
16:02I'm going to make you a promise as a parent.
16:04I need, I need one thing from you.
16:06Look at me.
16:07I want your hair out of your face and I want you to look at me.
16:11I want you to answer me one question.
16:13Do you love your daughter?
16:14More than anything.
16:15This, right now, look at me.
16:17If you love your daughter, and this might, to a lot of people, seem quite shocking.
16:22Right now and today, we have an opportunity to save her life.
16:26And however difficult it is for you, I need her mother's support.
16:30I am asking you for one last monumental effort.
16:33I need you next to me out there.
16:35I want to do this, but I need her mother, and I need you to be strong if you love
16:40your daughter.
16:40I know what you're saying.
16:42I'm too weak.
16:45Okay.
16:46It's not totally my responsibility, love, is it?
16:51Why don't you try talking to your mum?
16:54Through the screen.
16:55Pat.
16:56Pat.
16:57Listen to your daughter.
17:01Please talk to me, Mum.
17:03I'm going.
17:04Well, come and sit in the pod with me.
17:06Look at me.
17:09I don't buy you for one second, you see.
17:12I completely agree with Chelsea.
17:14I think you have taken drugs.
17:16I think you could have done something a long time ago, but I think it's a very difficult subject.
17:20I want a lot of medication, Jeremy.
17:22Sure you are.
17:22I want a lot of drugs, don't I?
17:24How old are you?
17:2522.
17:26You're absolutely as wise as 22.
17:29I know, as I said, she's a lot older, Eddie, than I've ever been.
17:33No, you buy into that.
17:33Dr. Aaron Ghosh, our resident doctor, has done a medical examination.
17:37Some people in the audience might find the results shocking.
17:39Aaron Ghosh, ladies and gentlemen.
17:49Your mother can hear what Aaron is going to say, and I want to say something about this man.
17:55The reason he fits into this show is because he says it as it is.
17:59He's a qualified doctor, but he says it how it is, and how it is ain't great, right?
18:04It's probably the worst that we've seen.
18:06When you get to injecting drugs, what we call intravenous drug users, you take your drug level right to the
18:12highest level, okay?
18:14It's the worst thing you can do for your body.
18:16And we've talked on this show about people who have got hepatitis or HIV from sharing needles.
18:21You add hepatitis.
18:23We talk about how people destroy their lungs because they smoke the heroin.
18:26She's already destroyed her lungs.
18:28She's on inhalers.
18:29We talk about how you can get clots that fire off, and any of these clots could potentially kill you,
18:34and it's literally a Russian roulette.
18:36She's got these clots.
18:37She's got them already in her leg.
18:39We talk about abscesses and infections.
18:41We talk about all the risks, and Donna's got all of them.
18:45There isn't a single condition that Donna hasn't got as a direct consequence to her drug use.
18:50She's had a breast lump, which she's had nine appointments for, to get this sorted.
18:55Anyone else with a lump would be so paranoid they couldn't wait to get in.
18:59There isn't more, from a medical point of view, I can do to push Donna to say, this is it.
19:05It's the final level.
19:05And you know that, don't you?
19:07You said that to me.
19:08You went, my body is being destroyed.
19:10Yes.
19:11I can't say exactly when you've been using drugs or how, but I can say for you as a fact,
19:15when we looked at your groins, and we looked in those sites,
19:19your right site has clearly got signs of being actively used.
19:24So, I don't care what you're saying.
19:26Can I just say, Aaron, as well, bless you, the footage of the examination was too shocking.
19:31That's a first.
19:32We couldn't show it.
19:33I don't know what else you need to know, lady.
19:36You're going, I mean, you know me.
19:38We worked together.
19:39Is she going to die?
19:40Jeremy, I'm surprised she's still alive.
19:42That's what I'm saying.
19:43This is literally Russian roulette.
19:46She's got active clots.
19:47She needs to get them sorted.
19:49She's got a lot.
19:49I want them to show a little bit.
19:50Okay, we've cut this down, Aaron.
19:51We've cut it down because there's stuff that's too shocking.
19:53Just the series of tests on her.
19:55And you say the most shocking you've ever seen.
19:57Without a doubt, and we've been here, you know, Jeremy, we've been here a lot of times.
20:01I talk about all these conditions that she has got.
20:04You know, all her teeth have rotted away on the inside.
20:06You can see them have just snapped off and they break so easily.
20:09You know, as a result of a physical assault, her teeth are just crack.
20:12She's got blood in her ear.
20:14Her lungs sound awful because you haven't been using your inhalers because you haven't got them at the moment.
20:18So, all we're hearing is pure crackles.
20:20We know heroin people, unfortunately, start to destroy lungs and get lungs that someone in their 80s would have in
20:27their 30s.
20:28Your pulse is going rapid.
20:29You're getting chest pains.
20:30You're getting palpitations.
20:32I don't know where to say what's working as opposed to what's not working.
20:36It's quite interesting.
20:37I mean, you know, I would have in my head, I'd say to Aaron, I'd say, talk to me about
20:40life expectancy.
20:41Did you hear what he just said?
20:42He's surprised you're still alive.
20:45Mine doesn't shock you.
20:48You know that clot in your leg could go anywhere.
20:52You know that breast lump could mean cancer.
20:54This is DBT.
20:55We were able to do this, but furthermore...
20:57So, we can actively see she's got one hard, solid calf, which is much larger than the other.
21:03So, we can see straight away they're not equal.
21:06And with someone who's got a history of intravenous drug use, you have to take that as high risk.
21:10When you feel it and it's solid, and the muscle is solid, it's really dangerous.
21:15And anyone, I would say it's to anyone out there who has that, has to go straight away into A
21:20&E.
21:20And when you went to your GP, that's exactly what he said.
21:23Didn't go there, did you?
21:24No.
21:25So, I read, and Aaron is an honest guy, I read that you're ready to change.
21:32Why?
21:33Because your mum can hear this, and I can hear this, and millions of people can hear this, and nobody's
21:37really buying it.
21:37You don't look like you're ready to change.
21:39You don't even look shocked.
21:39Your 22-year-old sister just said to you, for goodness sake, you're going to die.
21:44I am ready to change, Jeremy.
21:47I have done for 15 years on drugs.
21:50I'm ready to change.
21:52Then why are you still lying?
21:54Just tell the truth.
21:57I used MCAT three days ago, all right?
22:04What do you want, sympathy?
22:06No.
22:07You're a liar.
22:09Yeah, I guess.
22:10So, why should anybody be honest?
22:13He's just said something that I want to reiterate to everybody.
22:17We have a National Health Service that is stretched to the most ridiculous levels,
22:22and you don't go to nine appointments.
22:26At what point do we start a debate which says, how can you help people unless they want to help
22:32themselves?
22:32That's exactly what that 22-year-old is saying.
22:34We're going to roll out the red cup.
22:36You don't want any help.
22:37You're doing this because, what, you've got a conscience, your mum's upset, your sisters are crying?
22:42You listen to your mother.
22:42Apparently, she does have a message for you.
22:44Pat, now or never, can you put that on, Matt, please?
22:47Please, go, Donna.
22:49Please, I'm begging you.
22:53Have the help you need, please.
22:57Tell my team.
23:00Tell my team something which I find quite interesting.
23:04I've got a rehab sorted in two or three months.
23:06I'm going to be ready for it then.
23:08I'm going to deal with my grief, then I'm going to go to rehab.
23:11Yeah?
23:11Is that what you're going to do?
23:13She's lying.
23:14You're a liar, aren't you?
23:15After this break, because of him, because of Graham, because of the man who works with this show, you are
23:23going to get the only chance, underlined, you are going to get the only chance to save your life.
23:31And I am going to tell you something before this break.
23:35I am not going to convince you.
23:37I am not going to chase after you.
23:39I am not going to throw your mother or your sisters in your face.
23:43And I don't care if people watching this go, bless her.
23:46Yeah, you've had some terrible things happen.
23:48Stuff that most of us probably wouldn't be able to deal with.
23:51But you've also had plenty of reason to turn your life round.
23:55One thing before I go to this break.
23:58The child you lost?
24:01Isn't that enough reason?
24:05She didn't get a choice.
24:06You have one after this break.
24:09I'm going, come on.
24:10No, no, no, no, no.
24:11I couldn't go.
24:12No, no, you are going to do this in the moment.
24:13I'm going, Mum.
24:14I'm going.
24:15I'm going.
24:17I'm going.
24:17I'm going.
24:18I'm going.
24:19I'm going.
24:20I'm going.
24:21I'm going.
24:27Get out.
24:28There's nothing to do with it.
24:43Please tell me there's nobody else in the frame.
24:45There is nobody else.
24:46The DNA test results show that Doug is not the child's biological father.
24:51How can that be?
24:54Why are you 100% sure?
24:56Keith's not got very good swimmer.
25:01How sure are you?
25:02100%.
25:03100%.
25:03100%.
25:04100%.
25:04I am 1,000% sure she's not my daughter.
25:10Keith is the father of your baby.
25:13You're not the child's biological.
25:15I'm coming.
25:16Take away!
25:17Take away!
25:18Take away!
25:18Take away!
25:20You are her father, just.
25:22In your name, you are lost.
25:24You get too much.
25:27It's not your baby, my friend.
25:29That is your daughter!
25:32You have noticed that, are you?
25:35He needs loving by both parents.
25:39Every child should know who its father is.
25:41Bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye. Bye.
25:50Have you been accused of cheating?
25:52Do you need to prove your innocence with a lie detector?
25:55If you're 18 or over and you want to be considered for the show,
25:57text the word TALK TODAY plus your name to 63334.
26:01Text costs 25 pence plus one standard rate message.
26:03You can call my team today.
26:04It's 09011 123456.
26:08Course costs 25 pence plus your network access charge.
26:12Or email talk at itv.com to get in touch with one of my team.
26:23Thank you very much indeed.
26:25Welcome back.
26:25Before the break, I was talking to Amy Donner, Chelsea and Aaron Gauche, of course.
26:30Think I'm hard?
26:31No.
26:32Put the green room on again for me, Matt, please.
26:35Unbelievable.
26:36Oh, dear.
26:37Pat, I'm about to make your daughter an offer of a lifetime.
26:40Do you want to come with us?
26:42Yes.
26:44You will?
26:45Yes.
26:46Look at me.
26:47This, for you, without any exaggeration,
26:51is the moment your life is at a crossroads.
26:56Because I am very, very aware of what Aaron, Graham and the team have told me.
27:02I did this first five years ago.
27:06I remember him saying to me about this guy, if he doesn't get help, he's dead.
27:12And the bloke laughed in our faces and went, three weeks later, dead.
27:16The guy had died.
27:20I don't know if you have it in you.
27:22I'll tell you one thing I do know.
27:24The walk you're about to make, hardest walk of your life.
27:27We're going that way, all of us.
27:29Come.
27:30And your mum's already out there, which is great.
27:31Come on, Donald.
27:34And he's saying...
27:35Absolutely nothing to do with him.
27:36No.
27:38Trust me.
27:39You think that walk was bad, you find out what you're out to take part in.
27:42You won't see anybody for three months.
27:45You won't be able to have any contact with anybody for 12 weeks.
27:49If you want, by the way, before I do this, to throw this back in my face, that's fine.
27:53I'm going.
27:54Well, if you are or not, this is your mother, bless her heart.
27:58I also want you to meet...
27:59I'm going, come on.
28:00No, no, no, no, no, you are going to...
28:01No, no, no, no, no.
28:03No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
28:11no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
28:13Donna.
28:14Donna.
28:14Donna.
28:15This is one of the greatest men I know.
28:16He's called Perry Clayman from the Perry Clayman Project.
28:19Listen to this, you lot.
28:20Listen to this.
28:21Please, thank you.
28:22Tell her what we've got.
28:22Okay.
28:23This is a one...
28:24Listen.
28:24One chance opportunity for 12 weeks residential rehabilitation.
28:29If we start.
28:30Listen to him.
28:31In Leicester, where we're going to detox you from whatever drug that you're taking
28:37and give you the opportunity to deal with all the consequences of your addiction
28:42and to start to deal with the past and to deal with the relationships,
28:46to get your mum back, get your family back.
28:48The first thing that came out early on, look at me,
28:51and he said it to me this morning,
28:53you cannot deal with the hell that you've gone through unless you are detoxed from it.
28:57This man's job is...
28:59He will do it.
29:00Look at me.
29:01I want you to know something.
29:03This can change your life, babe, because I promise you,
29:06these people have all...
29:07You will die.
29:08And we'll all get on with our lives, and your family will be devastated.
29:12You can be saved.
29:14This man does not...
29:16This is an...
29:17Do you understand how important this is?
29:19I'd start by saying thank you to this man.
29:21Thank you very much.
29:21What do you want to say to her?
29:23Please, darling, just do your best.
29:25Do everything they ask of you, darling.
29:27Just get normal, please.
29:28I love you.
29:29Start it up, Johnny.
29:30I love you.
29:31I will have a doner, promise.
29:32What do I do for me stuff?
29:33Don't worry.
29:34Will you grab me stuff?
29:35Will you grab all your stuff?
29:36We'll say to him.
29:37Not do your best.
29:38Just absolutely do it, yeah?
29:40And Aaron.
29:40Come on.
29:42Good luck.
29:44Start the engine, Johnny.
29:48Don't let me down.
29:49He's getting in the car.
29:53Go.
29:55Go.
29:57I need to tell you something.
30:00I need to tell you something.
30:01These guys are the experts.
30:02They'll talk to you.
30:04This is not easy, okay?
30:06There will probably be attempts by her.
30:09There will probably be attempts by phone and emotional blackmail.
30:12Yeah.
30:12I'm telling you because that's the person I am.
30:15If she lets us down, I can't do any more.
30:16But they will work with you.
30:18They'll work with her.
30:19But I need you lot to be strong.
30:20Yes.
30:21All right?
30:22Yeah.
30:22Promise?
30:23You promise.
30:24All right?
30:24Thank you very much.
30:25I love you.
30:26We owe you.
30:26You at 22, you don't owe me anything.
30:28You at 22 are absolutely incredible.
30:30But these guys, they do all the graft.
30:33Give them a round of applause.
30:34You stay with them.
30:34Give them a round of applause, those gentlemen.
30:40I can only say that that is the best opportunity that Donna is ever going to get.
30:4612 weeks, residential care.
30:48Can she beat a habit that really has consumed her for 15 years?
30:52We could talk about her family, talk about her kids, talk about everything.
30:55What she's been through.
30:56It's her chance.
30:57We will let you know, I promise you.
30:59But we're going to continue with my next guest today, Keeley,
31:01who is utterly convinced that best friend Estelle has stolen money from her mother's house.
31:04Now, Keeley says Estelle has stolen from friends before and claims she's even known in the area for shoplifting.
31:10Keeley says, I'm 100% sure Estelle will fail and I do not, if that is true, ever, ever want
31:15to near me, my family or my home again.
31:18Strong words.
31:19Keeley's on the Jeremy Kyle Show that way.
31:29Going to make the point that I always do on Theft Lie Detector.
31:32We're not even going to talk about how much it is.
31:33That's not the point.
31:34The point is the principle, because this girl, Estelle, ex-best mate.
31:40First up, what was the money for?
31:42My son's bedroom.
31:44Decoration.
31:44Yeah.
31:47What do we know about what happened on the day?
31:50Facts to start with.
31:52Well, I was with her during the day, but then on the night she came back through to be with
31:57my mum,
31:58because I went up with my boyfriend, so...
32:00And then all of a sudden, like, when I checked on the Saturday, it was gone.
32:04Where was the money?
32:05On top of the shelf in the sitting room.
32:07She knew it was there?
32:08Yeah, she did.
32:09I'm telling my team, I'm 100% sure that Estelle will fail the test.
32:12She's absolutely the only person who could have done it.
32:15Yeah.
32:16There was only my mum and my nana in.
32:19Could you have misled it?
32:20And then the three bins.
32:20Could you have misled it?
32:21No, I didn't touch it, because I knew I needed it for that.
32:23This girl has a form.
32:26What do we know about her in the past?
32:28She's stolen before?
32:29Yeah, she has.
32:30Of recent friends and all, she told us about her before.
32:33No, I haven't actually.
32:36Yeah, you have.
32:36Whatever, man.
32:37You're a liar.
32:38You're a liar.
32:39You're a liar.
32:39Your sister is.
32:40Yes, you are.
32:40Your sister is.
32:41You said the money that went missing on Wednesday,
32:44and then you tell her on Saturday.
32:45Sorry, sorry, sorry.
32:47It's you.
32:48It's you, my...
32:49You're a liar.
32:51You're an absolute disgusting.
32:53You're a liar.
32:53You don't know.
32:54You don't know.
32:54And you can sit there.
32:56She's pinched out in the queue too.
32:58You're too much of that disgusting.
32:59She's caught there.
33:00She's been there for you.
33:02She's gone after the paper six.
33:03I don't get a word in edgeways.
33:05Is that all right?
33:06Could you shut up and sit there?
33:07Is that...
33:08Just stick it off the mic.
33:09Just shut up and lose the picture.
33:11Lose it.
33:14Can I say one thing?
33:15Estelle didn't say anything there.
33:17That was a...
33:17That was a...
33:18A D, Estelle's sister.
33:19Yeah.
33:20Do you know what it...
33:22I mean, you're making a pretty big accusation.
33:24You're not coming out here going,
33:25as some people have done,
33:26not sure, hate having to do this.
33:28You're going,
33:29I'm 100% sure that Estelle, right,
33:32has nicked it.
33:33We were talking before...
33:34Shut up.
33:35She's got previous what?
33:37Yeah, she's stole off paper before.
33:39She's even stole out of shots.
33:41Because you know you were close to her.
33:43You loved her.
33:44She loved you.
33:45You were there constantly.
33:46You know what it is?
33:47Have you ever met Dee before?
34:16You can't do this.
34:19100% national television.
34:21Neck on the line.
34:22What if you're wrong?
34:24I know I'm not.
34:25Because, like...
34:26And if you are right...
34:26It was only between me mum,
34:27me nana and Estelle.
34:28What if she has nicked it?
34:29What happens?
34:31The ultimate betrayal, right?
34:33Right.
34:34I thought a lot of her and all, but...
34:36Let's just point this out before we bring her out.
34:3719-year-old Estelle is a known shoplifter with previous forms.
34:40She was the only other person but your mother and your nan that was in the house.
34:42The money went missing.
34:43Is she going to pass the lie detector?
34:44She's next on the car show.
34:45That way!
34:46I haven't talked to you.
34:52And I'm here yet again.
34:53I'm going to prove it.
34:54That's what you said last Saturday and all.
34:55Why did you say nothing?
34:56You don't have to give us a don't.
34:56What your gobby sister was giving out.
34:58Why did you stand there and say nothing?
35:00Because I couldn't speak over her.
35:01Well, you can do it now.
35:03Did you steal the money?
35:03No.
35:05I'm 100% certain that I haven't took it.
35:07But you got form love?
35:08But you're accusing me mum and me nana and all.
35:11I never said...
35:11I never...
35:12I never...
35:12I never...
35:13I never wanted to.
35:14Yes, you did.
35:15Yes, you did.
35:15No, I didn't.
35:16I'm not accusing anyone.
35:17I haven't took the money.
35:18All right, then.
35:18Not at all.
35:19No.
35:20It's not lying, then.
35:22I'm not what you like.
35:23I'm sure you know.
35:23It's got nothing to do with being in it.
35:25Who are you?
35:28Who are you?
35:28Do you know what?
35:30Would you do me a favour and shut up?
35:33Are you going to pass this test?
35:35Yes.
35:36100%?
35:37Yes.
35:37Who's Tasha?
35:40Army friend.
35:41Brilliant.
35:41You're remembered in time.
35:42Tasha's on the Jeremy Kyle show that way.
35:47My grand son's running by the show.
35:48You're excused.
35:49It's law.
35:50It's sick.
35:50It's violent.
35:51You weren't even in the house.
35:52It's disgusting.
35:53I don't even know why you're here.
35:54Excuse me?
35:55That's my sister.
35:55Excuse me?
35:56Aye.
35:56Just take it to me here.
35:57You have for 20 years.
35:58Shush.
35:5920 years I've been in her life.
36:0120 whole years.
36:02She can trust me in her house more than you.
36:04And you want me to be her best friend?
36:05It's disgusting.
36:06Yeah, you will see.
36:07But never as well.
36:08Come out.
36:08Hi.
36:09Hi.
36:09Hi.
36:09Say hi.
36:10Yeah, I'm sorry.
36:11Nice to meet you.
36:13You're a bit vocal then.
36:14So, you're a bit vocal.
36:16I've got my hair extension.
36:17Sorry.
36:17You think you've got your godparents to this child.
36:20You think she definitely nicked the money.
36:22Definitely.
36:22Definitely.
36:22She's pinched from neighbours in my street.
36:24I can't mention names.
36:25Come on.
36:25Admit that.
36:26Have you?
36:26And you know a hell of a lot of money.
36:27You're talking thousands.
36:28You know.
36:29You know fine well.
36:30Have you stolen money before?
36:32Do you not?
36:32Do you not?
36:32Have you been done for shoplifting before?
36:34Yeah.
36:34I have.
36:35But that doesn't.
36:36The shop's different.
36:37Is it?
36:38It's not.
36:39It's not.
36:39It's still pinching.
36:40It's still wrong.
36:41But I wouldn't dare steal out of anyone's house.
36:43Do me a favour and just get out of here.
36:45You're doing my head and get D on the Jeremy Kyle show.
36:52You can't.
36:53There's nothing to do with you.
36:55You don't know her very well, right?
36:57Excuse me.
36:57Excuse me.
36:58You have just come along to support her.
37:01She's like who I am.
37:02She is innocent.
37:03She's done nothing wrong.
37:04She's been there.
37:05She's done.
37:06She's done.
37:07She's a lovely last fight.
37:09Excuse me.
37:10Who's Lauren?
37:11No.
37:12Yeah.
37:12I'm so big.
37:12Get Lauren on the Jeremy Kyle show.
37:15I'm in there as well.
37:22Stoggy fight.
37:23Do you know what it is?
37:24I'm not going to have this.
37:25You was coming on here and making my sister to be a liar.
37:29To be a liar.
37:30It's disgusting.
37:31Four years.
37:32Four, five years.
37:33I don't know you very well.
37:35I don't know you very well, right?
37:35But the first time.
37:36That is why I'm here.
37:37Because there's a woman that's just there.
37:39I believe I'm here.
37:40You weren't even involved in this.
37:42You pinched off.
37:43Everyone knows.
37:44Stregman.
37:45You know what it is?
37:46No, no, no.
37:48No, no.
37:48You're trying to see she's done this.
37:50She's done this.
37:50How did she steal them before?
37:52Yeah, she has.
37:53She has, Jeremy.
37:54Yes.
37:54She has stolen before.
37:55But then why wouldn't she have stolen this?
37:57And she was homeless, and she was young.
37:59So that was circumstance, but what you're saying is,
38:04there's principle, she wouldn't do it off a kid and she wouldn't-
38:07She wouldn't do it off her friend, who she knew for four years.
38:10You even told the bench, Nick.
38:12You told the bench, Nick.
38:13That's the trust that you've had with each other.
38:15I waited.
38:15You asked her.
38:16I'm not talking to you.
38:17You asked her.
38:19Shut up.
38:20Will you tell her, because I'm trying to get this sorted.
38:22Well, you're talking over everybody.
38:23Why can't she talk?
38:23Because I feel like I've got to get my pint across.
38:25Well, I think you've done quite well.
38:27Why are you and she at loggerheads, then?
38:30Exactly.
38:30Don't even know each other.
38:31No, I don't know yet.
38:33But why are you on here?
38:34It's got nothing to do with you.
38:36And yet people are saying, why are you on here?
38:39But I'm a sister.
38:41I'm a sister.
38:41She's the only person that she's got.
38:43And that's my godson man.
38:44She stole off my godson man.
38:45But you don't know what's happening.
38:46It's got to do with you.
38:48I'll read them.
38:48We'll see, darling.
38:50We'll see.
38:50When it comes back innocent.
38:51Who are you?
38:52Lauren.
38:53What's your take on this?
38:54He's disgusting.
38:56Do you think that you need the money?
38:57Aye.
38:58Why?
38:59Just because of her past.
39:01Maybe that's unfair.
39:02Maybe you're missing the point of the-
39:03Yeah, like, I agree.
39:04Like, we shouldn't be judging her from her past.
39:07Do you know what I mean?
39:07But it's just-
39:08Yeah, you shouldn't.
39:09If you knew the heart of what she's been through,
39:10you would give me my-
39:12You know what she's been through, isn't it?
39:14And you know better, the things that she's been through,
39:16the connection that you've had.
39:23I'm going to go and-
39:28Would it be alright if I went to a break?
39:30If you weren't?
39:31It's not my shorts.
39:33Yeah.
39:33What?
39:34It's not your-
39:34LAUGHTER
39:41Could you just-
39:42Could you just wait there?
39:43Just say, um, lie detector results after the break.
39:47Jess has gone for a lie down.
39:48Just do that.
39:48Lie detector results after the break.
39:50judges went and I down
39:53we asked Estelle did you steal any
39:56of the missing money from
39:58Keely's mother's house
40:00your sister said no why did you say no
40:02I was telling the truth
40:04Oi it's important that you come here
40:06Keely come here
40:22please tell me
40:24there's nobody else in the frame
40:26the DNA test results show that Doug
40:28is not the child's blood
40:30why are you 100% sure
40:35he's not got very good
40:37how sure are you
40:41100%
40:44I am 1000% sure
40:46she's not my daughter
40:50Keith is the father of your baby
40:52thank you
40:53you're not the child's blood
40:55stay away
40:59you are her father
41:04he's not your baby my friend
41:08that is your daughter
41:14he needs loving
41:16by both parents
41:19every child should know
41:20who its father is
41:21bye bye bye bye
41:22bye
41:29are you having problems
41:31with your ex
41:31are they interfering
41:32with your relationship
41:34if you're 16 or over
41:35and you want to be considered
41:36for the show
41:36text the word talk today
41:37plus your name
41:38to 63334
41:40text costs 25 pence
41:41plus one standard rate message
41:42you can call my team today
41:44it's 09011
41:45it's 123456
41:48course cost 25 pence
41:49plus your network access charge
41:51or email talk at itv.com
41:53to get in touch
41:53with one of my team
42:06for me quite interesting
42:07that throughout all of that break
42:09and the bit before
42:09you were very vocal for your sister
42:11and that's lovely
42:12but your sister said absolutely so
42:13yeah because you know why
42:15because you were shut up
42:16it's not that
42:18but when she does try to speak
42:20they're filling her head with
42:23saying that you are
42:24she's all under thingy
42:25did you steal the money
42:27no
42:27do you think she stole
42:28she did
42:29no
42:30she's seen things like that
42:32do you think she stole the money
42:35do I think
42:35I know she hasn't stole the money
42:37did you steal the money
42:37no
42:38100% you too
42:39what about you
42:40I think she has
42:41because obviously I'm going to see her
42:43instead of my mum
42:43I don't even know why you're here
42:45do I trust me family
42:45because of my godson
42:46I know
42:47do you think she stole the money
42:48definitely
42:48and to be fair
42:49I hope she has
42:50but still I hope you have
42:51so you steal well away
42:53because we are your best friends
42:54it's not right
42:54because after this
42:54she's stealing well away from you
42:55that's good
42:56that's great
42:57I hope you're doing her
42:59do you think she stole the money
43:00right
43:02um
43:03what happens if she does fail
43:06but I know she won't
43:07she'll probably get quiet for a change
43:08right
43:09quiet
43:09no I'm going to go quiet
43:11because you know what it is right
43:13I don't know why you're here
43:15no but that's not about
43:16our sister
43:17right
43:17and I'm the only person
43:18she's got support for right
43:19you don't need to be here
43:21do I know
43:22I invite her
43:23hello
43:24hello
43:24I invited her
43:26I invited her
43:27she was her best friend
43:28a couple of weeks ago
43:29before it happened
43:30right
43:30you know what I mean
43:32best friends for 20 years
43:33next victim
43:34next victim
43:35give our man pet
43:37no you give our pet
43:43what does that mean
43:44where you think there's a comedian
43:45in the house
43:46on jerry
43:46you know what I mean
43:48jerry
43:48where y'all
43:49what jess
43:50where I can do the tune
43:51where I can do the tune
43:52when me bitch
43:53I binge like
43:55I'm just here to get this
43:57sorted for my sister
43:58right
43:58she's innocent
43:59she hasn't took it right
44:00we asked Estelle
44:01did you steal any of the missing money
44:03from Keely's mother's house
44:06your sister said no
44:07why did you say no
44:08someone's telling the truth
44:10were you
44:11yeah
44:11Tess says you're a complete liar
44:23do you want to do me a favour
44:30do you want to do me a favour
44:40Keely
44:40Keely
44:41come here
44:42say that Estelle
44:43do you know why I like this woman
44:45it's not worth it
44:45do you know why I like her
44:46because you should have seen her eyes
44:48when I said that
44:49God help you
44:50the truth
44:51the truth
44:52you've got a track record
44:54you've said nothing
44:55your sister's absolutely
44:57been on the line for you
44:59against three people
45:00she thought
45:00yeah precisely
45:03I want the
45:05everybody knows in this room
45:06you need the money
45:07I just asked
45:08you now
45:08would borrow your money
45:09yes you did
45:10I didn't
45:11and within half an hour
45:12somebody will tell me
45:12you've admitted it
45:13but you've got a friend
45:14who's devastated
45:14and you've got a sister
45:16who's devastated
45:16come and meet all of you
45:18this way
45:18which way are we going
45:20you are going to
45:22get your backside here
45:23quickly love
45:24and you want to learn
45:25to tell the truth
45:26where's Dee gone
45:30prolific history
45:35can you get me Dee
45:36please
45:37can you get me Dee
45:38I can't believe that
45:40it's the truth
45:41come on
45:41you've got a track record
45:43I actually feel
45:44do you know who I feel sorry for
45:45I actually believe
45:46I feel sorry for the sister
45:48because Dee
45:48might have been a bit gobby
45:50but she looked absolutely
45:51devastated
45:52we'll sort this out
45:53but you would protect her
45:54it's her sister
45:55seriously don't shout
45:56this is really
45:58talk to me
45:59talk to me
46:02I respect your loyalty
46:03but how do you feel now
46:04tell us what's happened
46:05look I apologise
46:06I apologise
46:07I know you had feelings
46:08it's coming to you
46:09to sit your back
46:10it's the truth
46:10okay
46:11it's the truth
46:11and you know that
46:13deep down don't you
46:14be honest to me
46:14do you know
46:15I didn't
46:15I really thought
46:16that you did
46:17now you do
46:18don't you
46:18that wouldn't come back
46:19should it
46:19should it
46:20just lie
46:20you know the truth
46:21now don't you do
46:22so what are you going to do
46:24do me a favour
46:24you do me a favour
46:26you do me a favour
46:26look at me
46:28you'll get her to admit it
46:30I never took it
46:31and I'll stand here
46:32and I'll say it all the time
46:34I never took it
46:35it's written all over her face
46:36do you know it
46:37just be quiet
46:37look at her sister
46:38look at her
46:42look at her do
46:44look at her
46:45it's not a laughing matter
46:46it's people's lives
46:47yeah
46:48come here
46:48it's all of your lives
46:49tell me the truth
46:50she lied didn't she
46:52I want to know the truth
46:53now
46:53she nicked the money
46:54didn't you
46:54no
46:55what does that say then
46:57what did you need it for
46:58I wouldn't have lent you it man
46:59I got paid that day
47:00I wouldn't have no reason
47:01to take the money
47:02why does it say you took it then
47:03well I don't know
47:04do you know what she said
47:05to the LIDA texter examiner
47:06what
47:07if I fail
47:08I'll give the money back
47:09fact
47:09didn't you
47:11did you say that
47:12I did say that
47:13why would you say that
47:13what do you think about
47:14her behaviour now
47:16I'm obviously going to have to
47:17speak around her
47:18away from
47:19you know
47:20the cameras
47:21where I can have
47:21you know I can talk to her
47:23you know sitting down
47:24you know though don't you
47:25you know it's the truth
47:26well it's the truth now
47:27isn't it
47:27you know I can't
47:28admit it
47:29you've disrespected a friend
47:30and crossed a line
47:31and you've had your sister
47:32out here giving it large
47:33and then you try to
47:34blame me man
47:34so one more chance
47:35because I'm a busy man
47:36because it'll come out
47:37you stole the money
47:38didn't you
47:38no
47:39what happened that day
47:40don't come here
47:41tell your sister
47:42what happened that day
47:43honestly
47:43I didn't take the money
47:46um
47:47we will let Graham
47:48do what he always does
47:49um
47:50I'm sorry
47:51I'm off now
47:51I'm off now
47:52to boot camp
47:52are you coming
47:54I'm off to boot camp
47:56what
47:57I'm talking about
47:57never mind
47:58listen
47:59the truth
48:00okay
48:00hello shush
48:01the truth
48:02I didn't keep it
48:03your sister put her neck
48:04on the line
48:04and that's your friend
48:05I know you did
48:07we'll leave you in crime
48:08give her a round of applause
48:12it's the point isn't it
48:13about the line of sex
48:14if people come in
48:14for the truth
48:15we tell them
48:15not always what you think
48:17it's going to be
48:17we'll get the truth
48:18out of our amount of time
48:19for this morning
48:19don't forget
48:20if you want to be on my show
48:21you need my help
48:22visit our website
48:22the details are on screen
48:23to my guests
48:24to this audience
48:25and to you five
48:25watching at home
48:26I'll see you very soon
48:27take care
48:27bye bye
48:27I'll see you very soon
48:27I'll see you very soon
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