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00:28You
00:35He said how you gonna get a girl from always in the apartment to the garage? He says I'm like
00:40you knock her out or something
00:48And Angela went behind her and he grabbed her one arm I grabbed her other arm
01:00There's a smile that mean you know, I knew he approved
01:23You'll hear it will kill her
01:26After watching 17 hours of videotapes of Ken Bianchi under hypnosis claiming he was guilty
01:37What I was seeing was a man broken down
01:44Put through psychiatric excesses
01:48To confess against himself to the point in which he believed his own false confession
01:56And you remember where she was taken
01:58there there is
02:01With the session of the first girl without the use of the Los Angeles
02:08Material the best year of reports. I couldn't really tell you exactly where the bodies were dumped
02:16My confessions, I said under hypnosis, were not reliable
02:21They did not match up with the facts
02:25My lawyer can't be materials for the case through a discovery
02:32And I essentially realized that I had no first-hand information about the crimes, or who committed the crimes
02:38That all the information was second-hand information from news reports
02:43The two women strangled were stuffed in the back area of the car
02:48The police files, or cops
02:51What I read was prompted in my memory during hypnosis
02:56subconsciously
02:57And I came out of it believing that they committed crimes
03:02I had literally false memory syndrome
03:08How about gun in LA with Angelo. Has he killed anybody?
03:12Yeah. How many?
03:14How many?
03:14He has
03:16five girls
03:18did you watch them fill them all
03:20you bet I did
03:21you can be sure that he killed those five
03:23positively without a doubt
03:25did you kill any down there
03:27if I did
03:28how many
03:29four of them
03:32Markins would ask one leading question after the other
03:36and he wasn't the only one
03:37that asked leading questions
03:39Ellison did the same thing too
03:41he would make a statement
03:42in the form of a question
03:45and I ended up
03:47providing an answer
03:49that was not the truth
03:52but he assumed
03:53it was the truth
03:56when these doctors
03:57came in they were fumbling around
03:59and they did have ulterior motives
04:01Dr. Ellison had
04:03a book coming out and he
04:05wanted to get the world record for
04:07most multiple personality
04:09cases you know and so he may have
04:11been leading with information
04:14why have you decided
04:15to not kill anyone
04:19what do I know
04:20is that when you decided to move
04:22I wanted to
04:23I wanted to fucking kill more broads
04:25you know
04:27when you're under hypnosis
04:29you're susceptible to
04:31somebody telling you
04:32that a memory happened
04:34when it didn't happen
04:35creating false memories
04:37so a clinician
04:39if they're hypnotizing you
04:40they could tell them
04:42what their memory is
04:43when it was actually
04:45not what happened at all
04:46you remember being at the office
04:49you say
04:49yes
04:50okay
04:51and that was
04:52that particular night
04:53in January
04:54the 10th
04:5511th
04:56something like that
04:57yeah
04:58okay
04:58there was actually
04:59a famous study
05:01called Lost in the Mall
05:08basically you could implant
05:09the memory of being lost in a mall
05:11with hypnosis
05:13and that 25% of the people
05:15had apparently never been
05:17lost in a mall as a child
05:20but under hypnosis
05:21they became convinced
05:22that they had been lost
05:24in the mall as a child
05:26believe it or not
05:27it's pretty easy to
05:28implant a lot of things
05:30into a person's mind
05:34yeah
05:34no one bothered
05:36to warn me
05:37that there were
05:38real dangers
05:39to using hypnosis
05:40to retrieve
05:40or refresh memories
05:42that once hypnotized
05:44there would be a tendency
05:44to recall those memories
05:46that never existed
05:47yet be convinced
05:48those memories
05:49are real
05:50and more
05:53with the hypnosis
05:55they led him down
05:56a path of
05:57you know
05:58now confess
05:59and now he's convinced
06:01he did it
06:01if Ken was hypnotized
06:04yes
06:05his argument
06:06could be plausible
06:07for sure
06:09but chances are
06:10in my opinion
06:11in front of what I've seen
06:12I don't think
06:13Ken was ever hypnotized
06:18you want to play games
06:19I'll play games
06:21I want him out of the way
06:23you don't wait
06:23no
06:24you don't fucking understand
06:33just keep looking at one
06:36just keep thinking
06:37over and over
06:38in your mind
06:39that you're feeling
06:40very tired
06:41we know that people
06:42absolutely can be hypnotized
06:44we can see there's
06:45plenty of fmri studies
06:46that show
06:47like what happens
06:47to the brain
06:48there are different
06:49techniques
06:50that get people
06:51to be in a state
06:52where they're susceptible
06:53to things that you are now
06:55going to lead them towards
06:56close your eyes
06:58take some deep breaths
07:00imagine
07:01I have no desire
07:03to smoke
07:04but here's a fun fact
07:06about hypnosis
07:08unless you want
07:09to be hypnotized
07:10you can't be hypnotized
07:12so for someone
07:14like Kenneth Bianchi
07:15I don't know
07:16if he would allow himself
07:17to be that vulnerable
07:20your head
07:22dropping down
07:25down
07:26down
07:27and I think that
07:29for any kind of serial killer
07:31being in the non-dominant position
07:34it's too risky
07:38when you've got someone
07:39who's hypnotized
07:40it's often really slow
07:43and quiet
07:44and figuring it out
07:46in a haze
07:48none of this was
07:49the behavior of Ken
07:50it's way too
07:52too awake
07:56there's a lot of energy
07:57there's a lot of movement
08:02I think that
08:04Ken saw doctors
08:06that seemed kind of excited
08:07and I really think
08:08he was thinking
08:08I am smarter
08:09than all these people
08:12but after
08:13Dr. Watkins
08:14and Dr. Allison
08:16assessed Ken
08:17the prosecution
08:19brings in their guys
08:20and their job
08:22is to be more skeptical
08:23about this whole situation
08:28hi Dr. Oren
08:29hi
08:30good to see you
08:30how you doing
08:32one of the experts
08:33I have
08:34is Dr. Martin Oren
08:36who was a world expert
08:37in hypnosis
08:38and looking at people
08:40who are simulating
08:41being hypnotized
08:42he seems like a
08:44pleasant cooperative individual
08:46but whenever I see
08:47an individual
08:48in a forensic situation
08:50somebody accused
08:52of premeditated murder
08:53facing a death penalty
08:55I always have to
08:56ask myself
08:57is this individual
08:58telling me
09:00how he really feels
09:01or is he
09:02malingering
09:03or faking
09:04when Oren comes in
09:06he does a couple of
09:07pretty clever things
09:08one of them
09:09he's like
09:10alright
09:10what if we suggest
09:12that Dean Brett
09:13who is
09:14Ken's attorney
09:15we're going to have him
09:17show up
09:17but an imaginary
09:18Dean Brett
09:19I asked him
09:21to hallucinate
09:22Mr. Brett
09:23his attorney
09:24shortly I'm going to ask
09:26you to open your eyes
09:27when I do
09:29if I can see you
09:31Mr. Brett
09:31will have
09:32Mr. Brett
09:33will have come in
09:34and he will be
09:35sitting in the chair
09:37right beside you
09:38open your eyes
09:40so that Mr. Brett
09:42wants to know
09:43hey Dean
09:44how you doing
09:47I'll leave you
09:48to talk to him
09:49if you want
09:49and I'll be back
09:50you want to hear the media
09:54the immediacy
09:56at which
09:57you know
09:57Ken jumps up
09:59shakes the hand
09:59of Dean Brett
10:01and you know
10:01right there
10:02it feels like
10:03malingering
10:03even more striking
10:05though
10:05is what he does
10:07when I ask him
10:08to describe Dean Brett
10:09what are we going to
10:10talk about
10:10the three of us
10:11well I want you
10:12to describe Dean
10:13to me in some detail
10:16what is his
10:17is he shaving
10:18oh no
10:20beard
10:21god you can see him
10:23you must be able
10:24to see him
10:25his hair isn't cold
10:26as usual
10:27you wouldn't say that
10:29in my opinion
10:30you wouldn't be saying
10:31like don't you see him
10:32it's like you assume
10:33a person sees him
10:34you would just say
10:35yeah I see him
10:36you wouldn't be like
10:37don't you
10:37it's again
10:38that part right there
10:39feels malingery
10:40and then
10:41you've got him
10:42having the real
10:43Dean Brett
10:44showing up
10:45tell me
10:46who is this over here
10:52Dean Brett
10:54who is this
10:57and Dean Brett
10:58is here
10:58and Dean Brett
10:59is here
11:01how can he be
11:02in two places
11:04me
11:05see how
11:08wait for a thrill
11:17in my opinion
11:21this all feels
11:22like a charade
11:23he's seen
11:24three faces of Eve
11:25the film
11:26which is like
11:27an education
11:28on how to fake
11:28a multiple personality
11:30have you ever heard
11:31of multiple personality
11:33in the 70s
11:35Hollywood was really
11:37interested in this
11:37whole idea
11:39we've got the
11:40three faces of Eve
11:41we've got Sybil
11:42and I used to think
11:44that everybody
11:44was like this
11:45that they would
11:46just naturally
11:46wake up and be
11:47someplace else
11:48or a whole lot
11:48older or wearing
11:49another dress
11:52it exploded
11:53to the point
11:54where now
11:55in the court systems
11:56this is becoming
11:57a question
11:58can we use this
12:00for the defense
12:01the judge ruled today
12:03that Billy Milligan
12:03was not responsible
12:05for the crimes
12:05of rape
12:06kidnapping
12:06and robbery
12:07that man was found
12:08not guilty
12:09by reason of insanity
12:10because he had
12:11multiple personalities
12:12it was a huge deal
12:13a couple months
12:15after that
12:15Kenneth Bianchi's case
12:18so it's possible
12:19that attorney
12:20Dean Brett
12:21is thinking to himself
12:22maybe we can
12:23use this
12:24for Kenneth Bianchi
12:26you haven't come out
12:28in jail at all here
12:30yeah
12:30I fucking used to
12:33to do what
12:34anything I fucking wanted
12:37we're watching
12:38the videotape
12:39we eject the tape out
12:41I said what do you think
12:42he said well
12:43look what I wrote
12:44his notebook said
12:45total bullshit
12:46and mine said bullshit
12:49it was a joke
12:50it was a joke
12:52there's a performative
12:54nature to this
12:55and I believe
12:55Kenneth Bianchi
12:56has been performing
12:57his whole life
12:59what's your name
13:01Steve
13:02one of the psychologists
13:04said
13:04who is that now
13:06he says that's Steve
13:07Steve got a last name
13:09he did have a last name
13:12what was it
13:16I can't remember
13:17what's Steve
13:19Walker
13:19Walker
13:20where did he get that name
13:22he says
13:24Walker
13:24Steve Walker
13:26he said oh
13:27he forgot this name
13:29and he jumps
13:30and he went and found
13:31this piece of paper
13:32that said
13:33Steve Walker
13:34written on it
13:35so I was like
13:36woohoo
13:38and then there were
13:40some transcripts
13:41that were found
13:41from local schools
13:43in LA
13:43in Bianchi's name
13:45which didn't make
13:46much sense
13:47so we went to
13:48Valley College
13:50said
13:50we'll work on
13:51this murder case
13:52and here's a transcript
13:53we found
13:54could you tell us
13:55who it belongs to
13:59she looks at it
14:01and she's
14:01well I can tell you
14:02right now
14:02it doesn't belong
14:03to that name
14:05this transcript
14:06belongs to an individual
14:07by
14:08I think it was
14:09Thomas Stephen Walker
14:10and we looked
14:11at each other
14:12we said
14:12bingo
14:13we got you
14:14they asked me
14:15if I recognized
14:16the name
14:16that was
14:17at the top
14:17of the paper
14:19I looked up
14:19expecting to see
14:20my own name
14:21instead seeing
14:21the name
14:22of Kenneth
14:22Abianchi
14:23he said
14:25how would
14:25an individual
14:27get these
14:28from you
14:29he said
14:30well I applied
14:31for a lot of jobs
14:32when I graduated
14:32I had answered
14:33an ad in the
14:35Los Angeles Times
14:35classified
14:36for a job
14:39so then we spent
14:40four days
14:41down in the archives
14:43grinding
14:44those old tapes
14:45of LA Times
14:49the one ad
14:50we found
14:50was a one ad
14:52for a counselor
14:53or psychologist
14:54send your resume
14:55and transcripts
14:58610 Verdugo
15:00Glendale
15:00well that had been
15:02an address
15:02Bianchi had lived at
15:04we knew we were
15:05onto something there
15:06we wrote it up
15:08sent it up
15:08to Bellingham
15:11showed it to Bianchi
15:13and he realized
15:14that he had been
15:15caught
15:16in one of his
15:17major lies
15:20that was a massive
15:22blow
15:22to the defense
15:23because now they realize
15:24we're screwed
15:26our insanity
15:27defense is crumbling
15:29this person is
15:29some dude
15:30that he conned
15:31once they got
15:33this report
15:34Bianchi decided
15:35hey
15:36I got a
15:36snowball's chance
15:37in hell
15:38you know
15:39I've got to
15:39change my plea
15:45my defense
15:46gets destroyed
15:49being granted
15:50by the
15:51defense lawyer
15:51told me
15:53in no uncertain terms
15:55you're going to
15:56get the death penalty
15:57in both states
15:57you're going to
15:58be put to death
15:59and it scared
16:00the hell out of me
16:00it scared me straight
16:03so I decided
16:04I needed to
16:05change
16:06the plea agreement
16:07and testify
16:08against Angelo
16:11he was attempting
16:13to do anything
16:14he could
16:14to stop the state
16:15from killing him
16:17including making
16:18false confessions
16:19against himself
16:20and others
16:21he was a broken man
16:23who could be
16:24manipulated
16:25the Los Angeles
16:26district attorney
16:27didn't feel like
16:28he had enough
16:29to arrest
16:30Angelo Bono
16:33Angelo Bono
16:33was still on the streets
16:34when I'd see him
16:36in the restaurant
16:36I would just get
16:37really scared
16:38and I just
16:39you know
16:39I didn't want
16:39to be around him
16:41all of the agencies
16:43in Los Angeles
16:44they really needed
16:45help
16:46they needed help
16:47from Ken Bianchi
16:48to be able
16:49to convict Bono
16:52so we went up
16:53to Bellingham
16:55to assess
16:56Bianchi
16:56as a potential witness
16:59against Angelo Bono
17:01I felt
17:02if he was
17:03a believable witness
17:04and we could
17:05corroborate
17:06we could convict
17:07Bono
17:09there had been
17:10unconfirmed reports
17:12of plea bargaining
17:13efforts in the case
17:14including reports
17:15of Bianchi
17:16waiving extradition
17:17to Los Angeles
17:18and changing
17:18his not guilty plea
17:20to the Bellingham
17:21charges
17:21in exchange
17:22for Whatcom County
17:23not asking
17:24for the death penalty
17:26Bellingham authorities
17:27will not comment
17:28on those unconfirmed reports
17:34the Los Angeles PD
17:35the sheriff's office
17:36they came up
17:38to Bellingham
17:39they wanted to know
17:40what our case was like
17:41and we wanted to know
17:42what their case is like
17:44if their case
17:45wasn't very good
17:46and they couldn't
17:46convict him
17:47I didn't want to give up
17:48the death penalty
17:49here in Washington
17:51so I wanted to make sure
17:52they had a reasonable case
17:54so that if I was going
17:55to give something up
17:56it was reasonable
17:57to give up
18:02once we got up
18:04to Bellingham
18:04all the investigators
18:06and the agencies
18:07who wanted first
18:08crack at Bianchi
18:09there was a lot of
18:10politicking going on
18:14LAPD got him first
18:16so we listened
18:18to all the interviews
18:20that we didn't
18:21participate in
18:22we're sitting there
18:24listening
18:24when they were
18:25talking to
18:26about Christina Weckler
18:27and he's telling
18:29the detectives
18:30what they did
18:31when they got back
18:31to Angelo's business
18:35I'm Christina Weckler
18:37after she was dead
18:39and nude on the floor
18:41he reached up
18:43and got the needle
18:44the syringe
18:47he made a crack about
18:49checking the teeth
18:50if she's dead or not
18:53and he took the syringe
18:55and he poked her
18:55cubit area
18:56a couple of times
19:02we've got a series
19:04of murder photos
19:05when we're listening
19:06and Pete grabs the photo
19:07and he brings it over
19:08and he says
19:09look
19:10injection mark
19:11on her hip
19:13LAPD
19:14didn't ask him that
19:15they didn't say
19:15hey
19:16what about that
19:17injection mark
19:18he brought it up
19:22then we finally got
19:24to interview
19:24Bianchi
19:26we went in
19:27and looked at
19:27where he was being
19:28interviewed
19:29we took the table
19:30and put him
19:31so he's looking
19:32straight at the wall
19:33so he had no room
19:34to move
19:35we were smoking cigars
19:37closed all the doors
19:40when we first sat down
19:41to talk to him
19:42he just came across
19:43as a sleazy con man
19:45and he was of the opinion
19:47he was going to be
19:48on the team
19:48he had all this
19:50paperwork
19:51Frank stood up
19:52and he just swept
19:53all that stuff
19:53onto the floor
19:54he said
19:55you're not going
19:55to need that shit
19:56we're going to talk
19:57about real stuff
20:00we're interested
20:00in doing one thing
20:02that's interviewing you
20:03knowing what you know
20:04what you did
20:05what I knew then
20:06or what I know now
20:07Ken we're not going
20:08to play that game
20:09there's a difference
20:10wait a minute
20:12just be quiet
20:13I'm not going to play
20:14that either
20:14there is a big difference
20:15be quiet and listen to me
20:17alright
20:18we're not playing
20:19that game
20:20don't think you're
20:21going to try and run
20:21it through on us
20:22alright
20:22we're interested
20:23in what you know
20:24what you did
20:25what Bodo did
20:26and his involvement
20:27when I say
20:28listen to me
20:29don't talk to me
20:30in that tone of voice
20:30I'm not some kind
20:31of animal
20:31listen
20:32you can listen to us
20:33and you can be
20:34interviewed by us
20:34but you're not
20:35going to interview us
20:35I'm cooperating
20:37we're trying to
20:37determine your worth
20:38as a witness
20:38alright
20:39that's all we want
20:40and it's not going
20:41to work any other way
20:44why
20:48we want to talk to you
20:49about Cindy Hutzman
20:50case
20:52we set her
20:53in the trunk
20:53of the car
20:54he took off
20:55and I followed him
20:56to Angela's crest
21:04Angelo's behind the car
21:06Tom's
21:07on the trunk
21:08of the car
21:10and he and I
21:11both pushed it
21:12and
21:12you say Angelo
21:13pushed from the rear
21:15that's correct
21:26I thought he was lying
21:27because the car
21:28landed
21:28put it up
21:30we thought the car
21:31had been pushed
21:32over backwards
21:33we're saying
21:34wait a minute
21:34is he telling us
21:35the truth or not
21:36then we went to CHP
21:38and had a report written
21:41they came back
21:42and they said
21:42that car
21:43was driven in
21:45they pushed it over
21:46front first
21:47it auto rotated
21:49because it hit
21:50big boulders
21:51that turned it around
21:53and it landed
21:54facing up the hill
21:57the other thing
21:57they told us
21:58they put every girl
22:00they took to the shop
22:02ligatured
22:03and put them
22:04in one chair
22:05in one room
22:08the three of us
22:08walked into the house
22:09and said
22:11why don't you have a seat
22:14they pointed to the
22:15leather chair
22:16and she sat down
22:17in it
22:20and I turned around
22:22and got behind her
22:23when she was sitting
22:24in a chair
22:31on the Wagner case
22:33the palms of her hands
22:34had burn marks
22:36and we were fortunate enough
22:38to pull fibers
22:39out of the chair
22:40and match fibers
22:41that were on
22:42Wagner's hands
22:43there were so many
22:45things he told us
22:47that only the killer
22:47would know
22:51another thing
22:52that we were able
22:53to corroborate
22:54was from one
22:55of the various interviews
22:56by the psychologists
22:57and psychiatrists
22:58the thing with
23:00the hillside killings
23:01was the
23:03pretending to be
23:04police officers
23:05that sort of thing
23:13that was one of the
23:14more important things
23:15he told us
23:16how they were operating
23:20and it's exactly
23:21what they were doing
23:25were there people
23:27who were considered
23:30as victims
23:31but then
23:32rejected
23:33yes
23:35Peter Lorre's daughter
23:37was going to be
23:38a victim
23:41somehow the notoriety
23:43the fact that
23:43who she was
23:44you know
23:44Peter Lorre's daughter
23:47somehow stifled
23:48whatever
23:48was going on
23:51I can remember
23:52her showing
23:52the pictures
23:53of her
23:54sitting on her
23:54father's lap
23:58Peter Lorre
23:59was a well-known
24:00actor
24:01in Hollywood
24:02actually
24:03played a serial
24:04murder
24:05in a film
24:06which was
24:07sort of ironic
24:10with her
24:11can you go up
24:12to her
24:14and
24:14can you show
24:15her a badge
24:18yes
24:18and what do you say
24:24hi
24:25we're police
24:26out of service
24:27we should step
24:28over to the car
24:29please
24:29what he said
24:31about Kathy Lorre
24:32nobody knew
24:34about
24:34Kathy Lorre
24:35didn't even
24:36report it
24:36it was an
24:37unreported attempt
24:39alright
24:39and he tells us
24:41about it
24:43we found her
24:44she
24:44corroborated
24:45she says
24:46yeah I was
24:46stopped once
24:48this car came
24:49around the corner
24:50and just cut us
24:51off
24:52at which point
24:53two men
24:54got out of the car
24:55one
24:58the one
24:59on the driver's
24:59side
25:00Bianchi
25:01who
25:03started
25:03questioning me
25:05for ID
25:05and age
25:06the other one
25:08Bono
25:09who was on the
25:09other side
25:10of the car
25:10standing in the
25:12doorway
25:14with his head
25:15just showing
25:15over the car
25:15and both of them
25:16were just kind
25:17of flashing badges
25:18she identifies
25:19Bianchi and Bono
25:21as having tried
25:22to kidnap her
25:23but they backed off
25:31on top of that
25:33as luck would have it
25:34we get a phone call
25:36from detective
25:37Stan White
25:38who's working
25:39homicide bureau
25:40he says
25:41Frank listen to this
25:42he says
25:43an attorney
25:44who's a friend
25:44of mine
25:45David Wood
25:47recognized Bianchi
25:48when his name
25:49was put out
25:50in the paper
25:51in his picture
25:51he said
25:53Bianchi
25:54along with his
25:55partner
25:55Angelo Bono
25:57their crime
25:58partner
25:58is running
25:59an outcall
25:59service
26:02David Wood
26:04had got a copy
26:05of the Los Angeles
26:06Free Press
26:07which had a lot
26:08of personal ads
26:09in it
26:10for outcall stuff
26:11and massages
26:13so he called one
26:15and gal shows up
26:17there was a lady
26:18by the name
26:19of Becky Spears
26:23she had one of those
26:25credit card
26:25machine
26:26he put the card in
26:28he got a receipt
26:29for Angelo's Trim Shop
26:30for services rendered
26:33Becky was a runaway
26:35from Arizona
26:35it became obvious
26:37to him
26:37that she wasn't
26:38being treated
26:39very well
26:39did they work together
26:41yes they did
26:42how closely
26:45very closely
26:47Becky Spears
26:48led us to say
26:50Brehannon
26:50they had worked
26:52for Bianchi and Bono
26:53as odd coal
26:55prostitutes
26:56so we'd interviewed
26:57both young ladies
27:01after I graduated
27:02high school
27:03I did some runway
27:04modeling
27:06I will be honest
27:07I was a very
27:09street savvy kid
27:12I spent a year
27:15going back and forth
27:16from Phoenix
27:16to California
27:18I would come
27:19and I would visit
27:20friends
27:21one of them
27:22asked if I would
27:23be interested
27:24in meeting
27:24this individual
27:25that was looking
27:26for models
27:28and I kind of
27:29thought sure
27:29because I thought
27:31it was a way
27:32of getting into
27:33the modeling scene
27:33in California
27:40they flew me out
27:41to California
27:42to meet Ken
27:43and I thought
27:44okay well you know
27:44here's an individual
27:45they're going to
27:46spot my plane fare
27:49I met him
27:50at the airport
27:51picked me up
27:51and I'll never forget
27:52he said hey
27:54do you want a drink
27:55and I said sure
27:56got me an orange juice
27:57out of a vending machine
28:05by the time I got
28:06to the car
28:06I knew I had
28:07been drugged
28:09and by then
28:11it was too late
28:14the next place
28:15that I ended up
28:16was at
28:17Angelo Bono's
28:20that's
28:21when the horror began
28:26I was forced
28:27into prostitution
28:29they demanded
28:31of me
28:31to do things
28:33that were
28:33unimaginable
28:34with not only
28:35themselves
28:36but with others
28:38I was being
28:40you know
28:41pursed out
28:42to individuals
28:43of power
28:47and I had seen
28:49elected officials
28:50or law enforcement
28:51at Angelo's
28:53shop
28:55casually
28:55meeting with him
28:57do you think
28:57that's how
28:58they got their badges
28:58I know that's
29:00how they got
29:00their badges
29:01I saw badges
29:03being traded
29:06you know
29:06when you're 17
29:07where do you go
29:08I'm going to go
29:09tell the local
29:10police department
29:11who I feel
29:11are involved
29:14if I ever
29:15decided I wanted
29:16to turn them in
29:17or run away
29:19they threatened
29:20to take me
29:21so far out
29:21in the country
29:22that I would never
29:22find my way back
29:23or really mess me up
29:26so I'd be a vegetable
29:27the rest of my life
29:28or never look the same
29:33I was being watched
29:35and every move
29:36I made
29:36they knew
29:37and they knew
29:38exactly what I purchased
29:39exactly how much
29:40was spent
29:40exactly where I even
29:41stopped to get
29:45a drink
29:45so I'd always been
29:47thinking in my mind
29:47what do I do
29:48how do I get out
29:49of this
29:49without being followed
29:51you don't have a vehicle
29:52you don't have any means
29:53of transportation
29:55so you are driven
29:57to different locales
29:58I knew
30:00one of the drivers
30:01was planning on
30:02leaving Los Angeles
30:03to go back home
30:07one night
30:08early to mid-summer
30:10of 1977
30:13Angelo
30:13and Ken
30:15told me that
30:15I needed to be there
30:16at 2 o'clock
30:17and they were coming
30:18and I better be there
30:22I knew something bad
30:24was about to happen
30:25because the night
30:26before
30:27my whole place
30:28had been
30:29completely ransacked
30:31so I knew
30:32it was going to be bad
30:33whatever it was
30:36you start having
30:37the palpitations
30:38and you can feel
30:39your heart beating
30:39your carotid artery
30:42and that little voice
30:43inside of me
30:44said
30:45get out
30:46get out
30:46now
30:50that's when I asked
30:51the driver
30:51if he would please
30:52come and get me
30:54get me out of here
30:55I'll pay for anything
30:56you need
30:59and literally
31:00I was out within
31:01I want to say
31:0210 minutes
31:05and this is just
31:06a small part
31:07of the story
31:11both Sabra
31:12and Becky
31:13laid out
31:14the fact that
31:14they were living
31:15at Bono's house
31:16he and Bianchi
31:18were quite abusive
31:18to them
31:19it was obvious
31:20that they were
31:20crime partners
31:22that was a major
31:23break in the case
31:26now we felt
31:27we would be able
31:28to convict
31:29Bono
31:30of these murders
31:35our agreement
31:36for the plea
31:37to avoid
31:38the death penalty
31:39was that
31:40Bianchi would
31:41testify
31:42against his cousin
31:43and in doing so
31:45he would give up
31:46his right to go to trial
31:53in Bellingham
31:54Washington today
31:55Kenneth Bianchi
31:55pleaded guilty
31:56to murdering
31:57two college co-eds
31:58and he confessed
31:59to killing
32:00at least five
32:00of the women
32:01who were victims
32:02of the hillside
32:03strangler
32:04in Los Angeles
32:04police say
32:05Bianchi agreed
32:06to confess
32:07in exchange
32:07for escaping
32:08the death penalty
32:09in both states
32:13I can't find the words
32:14to express the sorrow
32:16I feel
32:17for what I've done
32:21in no way
32:21can I take away
32:22the pain
32:23that I've given
32:24to others
32:26and in no way
32:28can I expect
32:29forgiveness
32:29from anybody
32:34to even begin
32:35to try and live
32:36with myself
32:38I have to take
32:39responsibility
32:40for what I've done
32:44and I have to do
32:46everything I can
32:48to get
32:48Angelo Bono
32:51and to devote
32:52my entire life
32:54to do everything
32:55I possibly can
32:56to give my life
32:58so that nobody else
32:59will hopefully
33:00follow my
33:02will hopefully
33:02won't follow
33:03my footsteps
33:07it's taken me years
33:09to actually
33:10believe
33:11anything
33:12that Ken Bianchi
33:13says
33:13because I've been
33:14influenced
33:15by what I've read
33:16by the professionals
33:18in this case
33:19I trusted their word
33:21that this was a
33:21this was a man
33:23who was a liar
33:23and a psychopath
33:26but this man
33:28had no
33:29presumption of innocence
33:30not even from
33:32the defence attorney
33:35who did everything
33:37he could
33:38to get a confession
33:39and a guilty verdict
33:40the job of the prosecutor
33:41done by the defence attorney
33:46I'd like to have
33:48my convictions shaken
33:49like
33:50I really would
33:52I more than
33:53as much as anyone
33:55would like to see
33:56a simple solution
33:58with a rightful
34:00answer
34:00that the correct
34:02and horrific predator
34:03has been put behind bars
34:06and in
34:08my career
34:09I am no bleeding heart
34:10for those
34:12that cry foul
34:14of the criminal justice system
34:15but
34:17my investigation
34:19of the case
34:20shows that
34:21not only was I
34:21finding reasonable doubt
34:22that Bianchi
34:24was the killer
34:25there were
34:27other candidates
34:28these wide spectrum
34:30of quite notorious
34:31serial killers
34:32that were overlooked
34:34in the rush
34:35to convict
34:35Bianchi
34:36and Bueno
34:39the unfortunate
34:40truth is that
34:41since 1976
34:42in the early part
34:43of 1977
34:44Los Angeles
34:45was struck
34:46with a tsunami
34:47of murder
34:48law enforcement agencies
34:50have 30 detectives
34:51on the case
34:52but the murder wave
34:53continues
34:53police tie one killer
34:55to six legs
34:56the suspect
34:57still at large
34:58I'm just afraid
34:59that's all
35:00really afraid
35:02all these events
35:04were overlapping
35:05with the hillside
35:06strangler crimes
35:07you're talking about
35:09maybe two
35:10even possibly three
35:11different suspects
35:12and when I was
35:14able to isolate
35:15a wider series
35:17of strangle
35:18dump murders
35:19of women
35:20in the greater
35:20Los Angeles
35:21area
35:22I discovered
35:24there were
35:25uncaught serial killers
35:26on the loose
35:27at the time
35:28there was
35:29William Chowas
35:31who had kidnapped
35:32and body dumped
35:33a woman
35:34in Topanga Canyon
35:35there was
35:36the west side
35:37rapist
35:37John Thomas Jr
35:39who'd committed
35:40nearly a dozen crimes
35:41at the beginning
35:42of the spree
35:43Robert Honenberg
35:44escaped
35:45to Louisiana
35:46after strangling
35:48two women
35:48in Los Angeles
35:54so one has got
35:56to consider
35:57that at this time
35:58Los Angeles
36:00was riddled
36:01with predatory men
36:02more vicious
36:03with even worse
36:05backgrounds
36:05than Bianchi
36:07who were killing
36:08in similar ways
36:09to the hillside
36:10strangler crimes
36:12and the key
36:13amongst those
36:14was Rodney Alcala
36:16and here
36:18they are
36:20an appearance
36:21on the classic
36:2170s TV show
36:22The Dating Game
36:23this is what led
36:24to the capture
36:25of a suspected
36:26serial killer
36:27please welcome
36:28Rodney Alcala
36:29Rodney Alcala
36:33is now linked
36:33to at least
36:34five
36:34and as many
36:35as ten murders
36:36mostly through
36:37DNA testing
36:38of old evidence
36:39number one
36:40would you say
36:41hello to Cheryl
36:41please
36:42we're gonna have
36:43a great time
36:43together Cheryl
36:44for me
36:45what was crucial
36:47is the DNA
36:48evidence
36:49from 2007
36:50showed
36:51that he
36:52was the killer
36:53of Jill Barkham
36:5518 year old
36:56Jill Barkham
36:57was bludgeoned
36:57and strangled
36:58in the Hollywood Hills
36:59her photograph
37:01was prominent
37:02of what was
37:0313 victims
37:05of perceived
37:06Hillside Strangler
37:08in a conference
37:09headed by
37:10Ed Henderson
37:11the then head
37:12of the Hillside Strangler
37:14Task Force
37:15Bachelor number one
37:17you're a dirty
37:19old man
37:20take it
37:22come on
37:23over here
37:27all these
37:28other victims
37:29because the crimes
37:30was considered
37:31sold
37:31after the
37:32confession
37:33of Ken Bianchi
37:34Rodney Alcala
37:37was overlooked
37:38as being
37:40connected
37:40to any
37:41of these crimes
37:42seeing
37:43these possibilities
37:45of these
37:46predators
37:47capturing
37:48and killing
37:48Los Angeles
37:49women
37:50gave me
37:51faith
37:51that the
37:52real
37:53Hillside Strangler
37:54was potentially
37:54still at large
37:56and Ken Bianchi
37:58was telling me
37:59the truth
38:00of his
38:00innocence
38:10the day
38:11Bianchi
38:12pled guilty
38:13we arrested
38:14Bono
38:18this morning
38:19in Glendale
38:19California
38:20Bono was arrested
38:21police said
38:22he and Bianchi
38:22had run a
38:23prostitution ring
38:24in Los Angeles
38:25and had together
38:26murdered 10
38:27of the young women
38:27the principal
38:28Hillside Strangler
38:29victim
38:32they will be
38:32arraigned
38:33Monday
38:39what's your reaction
38:40what's your reaction
38:40at all of this
38:42surprises us
38:43to think
38:44that he would
38:45be implicated
38:46in this thing
38:47because I know
38:48he's just
38:49nice
38:50anything you want
38:51like these little
38:52rabbits he has
38:52running around
38:53he gives them
38:54to kids
38:54did you say
38:55that he threw
38:56his cousin
38:56out of the place
38:57well he told me
38:57to get out
38:58because he was
38:58too lazy
38:58he didn't want to work
38:59so he says
39:00he threw him out
39:01so he came over here
39:02and he said
39:03he didn't have
39:04a place to live
39:04he came from
39:05back east
39:05someplace
39:05I don't know where
39:07and then he got
39:08tired of him
39:08they threw him out
39:09and all this
39:11trouble started
39:11I guess
39:14I remember hearing
39:15about the Hillside
39:17Strangler case
39:17and that Bona
39:18had been arrested
39:20and I remember
39:22thinking
39:22that's the next
39:24case of the century
39:26and when I went
39:27in the office
39:27that morning
39:28one of our lawyers
39:30ran up to me
39:31and said
39:32I think we're
39:33going to get
39:34the Strangler case
39:35but you've got
39:36to be the one
39:36to go down
39:37and go in to see
39:38it
39:38I had a
39:40high success rate
39:41and signing up
39:42clients
39:47the next thing
39:48I know
39:48I'm driving down
39:49to LA County Jail
39:51and going in
39:52to see Bono
39:55I saw
39:56Angela walk
39:57from the holding
39:58area
39:59being accompanied
40:00by an officer
40:01to this
40:02little glass
40:03cubicle
40:05I remember
40:06the swagger
40:07the almost
40:08cockiness
40:09of aren't I
40:11a big shot
40:12this guy's
40:13just been arrested
40:14for one of the
40:14most serious crimes
40:15in LA
40:16I have talked
40:17to a lot
40:18of bad guys
40:18serial killers
40:20that did awful
40:21things
40:23and I never
40:24felt a feeling
40:25of evil
40:26like I felt
40:27every time
40:28I was in that
40:29cubicle
40:29with Angelo Bono
40:32he signed
40:33the retainer
40:34and
40:35you know
40:36I shook hands
40:37and left
40:37it was a real
40:38feather in our
40:39cap
40:39from a
40:40criminal defense
40:41business standpoint
40:43to represent
40:45Bono
40:45but did I think
40:47that it was possible
40:49that this guy
40:50was a
40:50psychopath
40:51serial killer
40:52yeah
40:53that's what
40:53bothered me
40:54but we're gonna
40:55have our work
40:55cut out
40:56for us
40:58Bono has hired
40:59six Orange County
41:00attorneys to represent him
41:01they refuse to discuss
41:03how they're being paid
41:05vindicated to us
41:06they have file cabinets
41:07full of police reports
41:09all that have to be
41:10gone through
41:11it's impossible
41:12for one or two
41:14or even three men
41:14to do that
41:15additional motions
41:16will be filed
41:17by Bono's attorneys
41:18on December 10th
41:19here at the
41:19criminal courts building
41:20a preliminary hearing
41:22is scheduled
41:22for January 21st
41:241980
41:27Kenneth Bianchi
41:28flew today
41:29by helicopter
41:29to a Los Angeles
41:30jail
41:32as part of a plea bargain
41:33Bianchi will receive
41:34life in prison
41:35instead of the death penalty
41:36he also agreed
41:38to testify
41:38against his cousin
41:40Angelo Buono
41:41in the Hillside Strangler case
41:45once we brought him back
41:47it had been at least
41:49two years
41:50since the crimes
41:51had occurred
41:52and a year or so
41:53after he'd been
41:54arrested in Bellingham
41:55for the two murders
41:56up there
41:58the lawyers
41:59in the district attorney's office
42:01they were struggling
42:03it was a very difficult case
42:06to build
42:06and Roger Kelly
42:08worked very hard
42:10to do it
42:11the defense is talking
42:12about attacking
42:13the credibility
42:14or the
42:15sanctity
42:16of our witness
42:17Kenneth Bianchi
42:18do you feel
42:18you can establish
42:20him as a credible witness
42:22in court
42:22we wouldn't have
42:23filed a case
42:24unless we thought
42:24we did
42:24we could
42:26as someone representing
42:28Bianchi
42:30I took on a role
42:32that was very different
42:33from any other
42:34defense counsel
42:35I became part of
42:37Angelo Buono's prosecution
42:40because I didn't want
42:42to see Bianchi convicted
42:44for the death penalty
42:45Bianchi would give me
42:47information
42:48and I would give it to them
42:50we worked hard with them
42:52to try to build a case
42:55against Angelo Buono
43:03the next step
43:04in the process
43:05was for there to be
43:06a preliminary hearing
43:08of Angelo Buono
43:10the purpose of the
43:11preliminary hearing
43:12is to determine
43:13whether or not
43:13there's enough evidence
43:14to go to trial
43:16there was a really
43:18significant lack
43:19of evidence
43:20that Buono
43:21did these killings
43:23the biggest thing
43:24we had going for us
43:25was the fact
43:26that Bianchi moves
43:27to Washington
43:27in the killings stop
43:29and they don't
43:30start up again
43:31and then if Bianchi's
43:33confession turned out
43:34to be wobbly
43:35or not believed
43:36they would be left
43:38with nothing
43:42Bianchi testified
43:44he went through
43:44a period there
43:45where he started
43:47vacillating
43:47on his testimony
43:51today after a
43:52pre-trial hearing
43:52in which Bianchi
43:53described Buono's
43:54role in 10 of the murders
43:55prosecutors announced
43:56Bianchi had recanted
43:57his earlier confession
43:58when we started
44:00to ask him
44:01well if you weren't
44:02involved in them
44:03how did you know
44:03these specific aspects
44:05of the killings
44:06burn marks
44:07in people's hands
44:08certain areas
44:09of the person's body
44:10that have been shaved
44:10etc
44:11that only either
44:12the killer
44:12or the police
44:13would have
44:13awareness of
44:15he would explain
44:16those away
44:16by stating
44:17that he had
44:18seen some photographs
44:19that had been
44:21shown to him
44:21by Angela Buono
44:23Bianchi's answers
44:24were at odds
44:25a lot
44:26with statements
44:27he'd previously
44:28made to police
44:29and to psychiatrists
44:31he said one time
44:32Buono showed him
44:33photographs of the victims
44:35and then he said
44:36later
44:37his own attorneys
44:38showed them
44:39Bianchi went from
44:41describing the murder
44:42as an accepting
44:43responsibility
44:44then went to
44:45I didn't do it
44:46or maybe I did
44:47or I don't remember
44:49obviously did everything
44:50to scuttle the case
44:56when I was on the stand
44:57I didn't know
44:58what the hell
44:58I was talking about
45:00I wasn't trying
45:01to remember
45:02what I allegedly did
45:04because
45:05I didn't have
45:06any first hand knowledge
45:07I was trying
45:08my best to remember
45:09what I told
45:12the doctors
45:13during the
45:16evaluations
45:17in Bellingham
45:17because so much
45:18I had said
45:19was untrue
45:20that it was just
45:22one
45:24inconsistency
45:25one messed up
45:26version after the other
45:28and I couldn't
45:29keep things straight
45:30my testimony
45:31was wholly unreliable
45:33this may be
45:34one of the last times
45:35hillside strangler
45:36suspect Angelo Bono
45:38makes the ride
45:38from county jail
45:39to the criminal
45:40courts building
45:41the case against
45:42Bono is falling apart
45:45Roger Kelly
45:46was investigating
45:48the circumstance
45:50of the killings
45:50of each of those victims
45:52comparing them
45:53to Ken Bianchi's
45:54version of Vance
45:55and in each
45:56and every crime
45:58he was coming up
45:59that these
46:00confessions
46:01were bunkum
46:02that they did not
46:03match the circumstances
46:05of the crime
46:05that resulted
46:06in
46:08Roger Kelly
46:09doing
46:11in Kelly
46:12doing something
46:12extraordinary
46:13and that was
46:14to write
46:15a memo
46:16to his own boss
46:17the district attorney
46:19describing
46:20the failings
46:22of Ken Bianchi
46:23as the main witness
46:24to the extent
46:26that it would
46:28be dangerous
46:29to cry
46:30Angelo Bueno
46:31for these murders
46:36Ken?
46:37David
46:38yes
46:40it looks very dapper
46:41oh there you go
46:42well you're looking
46:43you're looking good too
46:44Ken
46:46the exciting news
46:48is the memo
46:49this is
46:50the July
46:51to 1981
46:53memo
46:54from Roger Kelly
46:55which I'd been
46:57trying to get
46:58for nine years
46:59it's absolutely amazing
47:00nobody ever showed it
47:01to me
47:02that's extraordinary
47:03in itself
47:04but I'm going
47:05to read out
47:07some of the memo
47:08to you
47:08and this is
47:09Christine Weckler
47:13in this case
47:14like in all
47:15previous cases
47:16Bianchi tells
47:18of how Bueno
47:19used handcuffs
47:20to restrain
47:21the victims
47:23he rolled her
47:25to the side
47:26and took her
47:28handcuffs off
47:28the LAPD
47:30analysed evidence
47:31report
47:32shows that
47:33none of the
47:34doctors
47:34coroners
47:35felt that
47:36any
47:37of the ligature
47:38impressions
47:38of any
47:39of the bodies
47:40could be
47:41associated
47:42with standard
47:42adjustable
47:43handcuffs
47:44I mean
47:46what particularly
47:46struck me
47:47is the detail
47:48that they knew
47:49of the ligatures
47:51that there was
47:52no way
47:52that they could
47:54have been
47:54handcuffed
47:54I mean that's
47:55very significant
47:56I mean I actually
47:57believed
47:58what was false
48:00under hypnosis
48:01nobody said
48:02wait a minute
48:03wait a minute
48:04that's not true
48:05I mean
48:05it's not just
48:07one false
48:07it's literally
48:09hundreds
48:10I should have
48:11come within
48:1110 miles
48:12of a witness
48:13stand
48:13in this case
48:18jarred by
48:19conflicting testimony
48:20of their key witness
48:21prosecutors in
48:22California's
48:22Hillside Strangler
48:23case today
48:24asked the judge
48:25to dismiss
48:2610 murder charges
48:27against suspect
48:28Angelo Wono
48:30we're making this
48:31motion on the
48:31base of the
48:32evidence today
48:33particularly
48:34relating to
48:34the credibility
48:35or lack of it
48:36thereof
48:37of the witness
48:38Kenneth Bianchi
48:38that there's
48:39insufficient evidence
48:40to convict
48:40Mr. Bono
48:41beyond a reasonable
48:42doubt
48:44I think all of us
48:45are disappointed
48:46that we are at
48:47this position today
48:48we're pleased
48:49that the district
48:50attorney's office
48:51has moved
48:52to dismiss this case
48:54it was a
48:55controversial move
48:56by the DA's
48:57office
48:58particularly
48:59in a case
49:01with that many
49:01murders
49:02that many
49:03complications
49:06as a first case
49:07I was involved
49:08in
49:09where the DA
49:10had made a decision
49:11to dismiss it
49:12after we had
49:13filed it
49:15it's just bullshit
49:18when you put
49:18your case together
49:19and you take it
49:20to the DA's office
49:21and you have to
49:22convince them
49:23that you have
49:23a good enough case
49:24for them to file
49:25and get a conviction
49:27and then come out
49:28and say well
49:29we made a mistake
49:30it was a real blow
49:33they kept talking
49:35to Ken
49:35and they got close
49:37and in effect
49:38they became
49:39one of his victims
49:40that's his MO
49:42I mean
49:42he works
49:43everybody all the time
49:44you just can't
49:46pay attention
49:47to that
49:47you pay attention
49:48to what he's told
49:49that you've
49:50corroborated
49:52how they were killed
49:54the fact
49:55that all the girls
49:57were put
49:58in that one chair
49:59the fibers
50:01that were used
50:04and the mark
50:05found on Weckler
50:06who else would
50:07know that
50:10all this work
50:11all this effort
50:12all these resources
50:15we knew we had
50:16the killers
50:17we had a case
50:20now we're just
50:21going to flush it
50:23down the toilet
50:50we're just going to