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00:00I wanted to get to the Nick Wilson clip.
00:02Do we want to get to the Nick Wilson clip here?
00:04I heard it yesterday.
00:05I heard it live.
00:06So, Nick, I should take umbrage with this,
00:10except I do think a lot of you guys are going to agree with Nick on this.
00:14Go right on ahead.
00:16If Boston ends up overtaking Detroit,
00:18and they've been trying to play this thing for the 4th seed the entire time,
00:21and they overplay their hand, that will be devastating for them.
00:24No ifs, ands, or buts about that.
00:25That would be a second-round exit is what that would end up being.
00:28Yeah, and that'd still be a massive failure.
00:29It'd still be better than what you had with Darius Garland.
00:32No, it's not.
00:32No, because you're in the same spot.
00:34Darius is giving you that.
00:35Did you not get bounced out in the second round of the playoffs each and every time?
00:37That's the point, though.
00:38I don't understand why it's so anti the James Harden deal.
00:41When you were stuck, you were done with Darius.
00:44But Darius wasn't going to get you over the hump anyway.
00:46God bless it.
00:47He wasn't going to do it.
00:48This is exactly why I do lump you in with Ken and Lima
00:51and all the other people that just want to be good vibes only with the Cavs.
00:54I don't see what's the problem.
00:55Because there's a very real conversation.
00:58They made a real trade.
00:59And failed.
00:59They made a real trade.
01:00They haven't failed yet.
01:01We're not even into the postseason.
01:03No, no.
01:03But the point is, you're the guy that's saying,
01:06we've got to judge them based off what they've done.
01:09Well, in the last 14, 15 games together, how have they played?
01:13You judge them off the playoffs.
01:14So how are you sitting here trying to judge them
01:16when all you do is say the regular season doesn't matter?
01:18Don't do the flipping around thing.
01:19What do you mean?
01:20I've given you all sorts of answers.
01:21And all the real things.
01:22How many more answers can I give you in a segment?
01:24All the real concerns about the Cavs, you parry away.
01:27What do you mean I parry away?
01:28I just talked about their defense to Orlando and O'Magic.
01:30But the this.
01:31Yes, the injuries matter.
01:32And how this team looks with Jared Allen on the court
01:34and that does make a difference in this conversation.
01:37But when I bring up two different games and spot off an idea
01:40that I think actually could matter in this team long term,
01:42how is that just letting them go?
01:44Like there's obvious flaws within this team.
01:47There was more flaws with this team with Darius than there is now.
01:50But there's still flaws with this team.
01:52I just I can't sit back and say that all of a sudden
01:55because they made a trade because they knew it was going nowhere
01:57that I think that's a disastrous thing to do.
01:59No, they had to do something.
02:01Well, obviously, I totally agree with Jonathan
02:04and Jonathan agrees with us, right?
02:06Is that is that obvious?
02:07To say it's failed already, I think is absolutely balderdash.
02:11However, I think a lot of people agree with Nick.
02:13I think a lot of people going by going by the poll that you put up yesterday
02:16or you had John Boy put up yesterday about the Cleveland Cavaliers.
02:20I think a lot of people I think more people are willing to agree with Nick
02:24than what they're willing to say to us on the air.
02:26It's funny when you and I agree with each other on something
02:29and then the callers get in.
02:30It's tough to go both of us.
02:32Look, we thought you and I agree on.
02:33We thought they were DOA with Garland and with Harden.
02:36I thought they had more of a shot.
02:37Yes.
02:38Now Tatum coming back to the Celtics has kind of changed.
02:40I think some of the calculus, unfortunately, in the East,
02:44it doesn't look as wide open as it did.
02:46It seems like everybody is just throwing more and more money on the Celtics
02:49to represent the Easter Conference.
02:51And I understand that because they still have less holes than we have now.
02:56You know, we still have a deficiency at certain positions,
02:59at wing, athleticism, length.
03:01You know, we don't have those things over a team like Boston
03:04who's also won a championship with at least some of their pieces and parts.
03:08But I will say this, like, Nick was hemming and hawing when they were 14-2
03:13going, what have you proven?
03:14And now they're losing games and Nick's like, well, now they're playing crappy.
03:19Like, there is some hater in the house when it comes to Nick right now.
03:23I mean, let's be honest.
03:24Like, he wasn't going to give them credit for 14-2,
03:27and now he's crushing them for losing games here in March
03:31when there are all sorts of good teams that lose games in March.
03:34So, like, you basically have to admit, like, there was nothing that was going to win him over.
03:39I agree.
03:40They could have gone 30-0 at the end of the season,
03:42and Nick would have been like, well, wake me up when they do something in March.
03:44I totally agree.
03:44In April, I should say.
03:45And we're a month away from the playoffs starting, and that's fine.
03:48This was always going to be about the playoffs.
03:50But you can't not give them credit for being the best team
03:53over a month, month-and-a-half stretch in the NBA,
03:55which they were right there.
03:57If it wasn't them, it was Oklahoma City, whatever.
04:00You can't, or even Boston at points of that,
04:04you can't say that that stuff doesn't matter
04:06and then lose your mind because they lost a terrible game to Dallas
04:09when they had just beat them by 35, you know, two days before.
04:12So, I know Anthony and I agree with each other on this,
04:14and Jonathan agrees with us.
04:15It's three-on-one when it comes to the two shows.
04:18If you agree with Nick, I'm not going to run you.
04:20I'm not going to go crazy.
04:22I want to know why, because I think a lot more people agree.
04:24Judging by the poll that we ran yesterday, a lot of people voted on.
04:27You can't tell me not a lot of people agree with Nick.
04:29A lot of people agree with Nick.
04:30Yeah, they do.
04:31So, they're not willing to say it to us.
04:32So, I have to extend an olive branch and go,
04:35why are we, I want to know.
04:37I'll give you five minutes to think it out.
04:40Why are we digging our heads in the sand?
04:42Why are Lima and me, and I'll throw Peter Lynn in there.
04:46He's not here to defend himself or to advocate for himself.
04:49I'll throw Peter Lynn in there.
04:50Why are we putting our heads in the sand?
04:53Why are we doing it?
04:54Why are we denying the truth, quote-unquote,
04:56about this Cleveland Cavaliers basketball team?
04:58Well, do you agree with Nick?
05:00Are we denying the truth?
05:01Are Tone and I denying the truth?
05:03Again, I put it out to everybody.
05:05I think it's easier when one side disagrees with the other.
05:09When you and I agree with each other on something, it's very, very difficult.
05:14It's, I will have to say, it's very difficult.
05:16And Nick is, Nick is like a one-man wrecking crew here.
05:20I haven't heard a lot of Baskin Phelps on their opinion on it.
05:22But yeah, to be fair, he's been consistent.
05:24He had no interest in the Cavs when they were 14-2,
05:27and they had all the metrics that were off the charts.
05:30So, he's just doubting them.
05:31He didn't come around.
05:31Usually, he comes around and, you know, we get the flip-flops out
05:34and we're headed to the beach.
05:35But now, again, the Knicks fans are the exact same way right now,
05:38and the Pistons fans are the exact same way.
05:41None of these teams are, like, all completely bought in.
05:47But I still think the Cavs, they have a shot.
05:51The best plan of attack here is to avoid the Boston Celtics
05:54as long as you can, right?
05:56Yes.
05:57I think a lot of this is going to end up being,
06:00I think the last 14 games, a lot of it's going to end up being by design.
06:04I think you guys are going to be,
06:05what was the game that they had their positioning,
06:09and it was a fan appreciation night, last home game of the season,
06:13and they had, like, their positioning, and they, like, didn't play anybody.
06:17Like, maybe Jared Allen played, like, the first time he could start.
06:20It was last year, and Jared Allen only played because Jared Allen hit,
06:24he hit his Iron Man mark.
06:26He started all 82 games.
06:27It feels like it was 14 years ago.
06:30I thought it was the, like, when they ended up,
06:35was it the Knicks, when they ended up on the path to playing the Knicks,
06:40and it's like, you wanted them, you got them, and you lost.
06:42I'm getting them all mixed up because, obviously, they had flameouts.
06:45They probably did that, too, but Jared was the only one that played last year
06:48because Jared got his 82 games.
06:50Well, you see us debating that.
06:51Those flameouts are why Nick feels the way he feels.
06:53Well, I get that, but that's also why they traded Darius Garland.
06:56That's why they made the move.
06:58That's what Jonathan was saying.
06:59I totally agree with Jonathan.
07:01I mean, all three of us are in agreement with each other.
07:03It was a move that had to be made.
07:04They had finally, as an organization, determined that Core Four
07:07had zero staying power, had zero chance at a playoff run.
07:12So, I don't know.
07:14Nick seemed to agree.
07:15He just said now that he wishes they would have traded Darius earlier.
07:19Okay, I was on board, too.
07:20I obviously was using this mic, saying that I didn't think
07:24of Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland.
07:25What were we going to get better for Darius?
07:27Well, I think you did trade him at his lowest.
07:29You did end up trading him at his lowest value.
07:31That's why you ended up with James Harden,
07:33and you didn't end up with a Trey Murphy or Michael Porter Jr.
07:39Okay, that's great, and we can do that in hindsight.
07:41So, you couldn't fix your wing position,
07:44which is what they still are lacking big time going into the postseason.
07:47I know, but I defend Kobe Altman taking all this time to do so,
07:51because first off, you still got an 11-time All-Star and a former MVP.
07:54Now, I know he's long in the tooth there, but obviously he's a much more durable player
07:57than what you have with Darius Garland.
07:59The other part of that is, is that who really wanted to give up on Darius Garland
08:03during those times?
08:03Okay, there was you, but that was basically it.
08:06There was not a lot of people who wanted to do it,
08:07because remember, Steph Curry himself compared Darius Garland to himself.
08:13Okay, when I'm getting Steph Curry comparisons from Steph Curry about Darius Garland,
08:19it's like, no, I don't want to move on from that.
08:20No, when Darius is totally on and healthy, I've said he's poor man Steph Curry.
08:25But over the last couple of years, things have clearly changed.
08:28And because over the last couple of years, things have clearly changed,
08:31it has to be clear, well, again, what are you going to get?
08:33So, then we started banging our heads, because it's like, well, we need wings.
08:37Who do you want to trade, Darius?
08:38Okay, who's going to trade a wing for Darius?
08:40So, you end up getting another guard, but a better guard, with James Harden.
08:43So, I'll deal with it.
08:44So, I think it's a step closer, and I still stand by what I said before
08:48about where I think this team can go.
08:50I do think, though, that Nick speaks for a lot of people
08:54who don't want to speak for themselves,
08:56because they know that you and I are going to want to gang up on him.
08:59Guilty as charged.
09:00It's the way it works.
09:01Sorry.
09:02But you know that there's not a lot of people who want to speak up for it,
09:06and Nick Will, where they are doing the old Owen thing.
09:10Like, Owen's in now, but there are plenty of people that are like,
09:13great, you traded for a guy, and all they hear about is,
09:15they don't pay attention to the former MVP stuff.
09:17And the MVP was in 2018, right?
09:20So, that is ancient history for them.
09:23They've heard of losing basketball, unfulfilled expectations, strip clubs,
09:30all the other things that you made fun of James Harden for.
09:32Now, he's our player.
09:34As if during that time, he wasn't a top-five player in the NBA.
09:37But they don't know that.
09:38But it's just, they don't know it.
09:39It's funny to me the way people talk about Harden,
09:42and it is totally, I used the term hater earlier to describe Nick,
09:45and by the way, it takes one to know one, because I've certainly been there.
09:47One of the king haters.
09:47There was certain teams in town, so I know when you've put a team
09:51in a no-win position.
09:52Yes, you're one of the king haters.
09:54And so, obviously, that's where the Cavs are with Nick.
09:55When they roll off all those wins, and they're at the top of the NBA
09:59in offensive defense, well, wake me up when the playoffs start.
10:02Well, the playoffs still haven't started yet, and now they're losing games,
10:04and Nick's like, wow, what a joke.
10:05It's like, well, you told us that it wasn't about the playoffs.
10:08But what I'm saying is, James Harden, and I have hated his game,
10:11I've hated aesthetically watching his game,
10:13when he was the heliocentric James Harden,
10:16and foul baiting, just step back three.
10:18Heliocentric.
10:18You guys notice, he's not doing that right now, right?
10:20He's not foul baiting.
10:21He's not doing the, hey, it's just a one-man wrecking crew.
10:25The ball's going to be in my hands at all times.
10:27Like, you guys realize that's not him.
10:28It's an evolved version of James Harden that's getting everybody involved,
10:31and you've seen his LeBron James-like passing.
10:34That's what it's been since he's been in Cleveland.
10:36His usage rate's actually below where Darius' is.
10:39So the ball's in his hands less than it was in Darius' hands,
10:42and he's getting his teammates involved.
10:43And when he plays with Jared Allen, he's made Jared Allen look like a top five big man in the
10:48NBA.
10:49Yes, he has.
10:49So they're missing Jared Allen now, which is cause for concern.
10:54Absolutely.
10:55Well, it was a knee knock at first, and now he's out for at least the next three games,
10:58according to the Cavs' release last night.
10:59Which is going to be now eight games.
11:01So what happened?
11:02I don't know.
11:03That's a pretty damn serious knee knock there.
11:05By the way, heliocentric.
11:07Neil deGrasse Lyman over here.
11:09I didn't know what it meant.
11:10But, oh, just, well, it basically, it was identifying, you know, an era of the NBA,
11:17which was unwatchable for me, where balls in one guy's hands, everybody's space out,
11:23and then just let him go to work.
11:25Now, the reason teams did that, Daryl Morey, with James Harden,
11:29is because he was so sensational at doing it.
11:32But few guys in the history of the game have had the skill, the footwork, the ability to hit threes
11:40while guys are all over them, like James Harden.
11:44I don't like what that ended up not only doing to his game, but what it also did to, like,
11:50the youth of America in basketball, because it created a bunch of wannabes and copycats.
11:55But has James Harden done that?
11:58Has he been that since you've seen him?
11:59So you're a hater, you just hated Daryl Scarlett more than James Harden, is what you're admitting.
12:03I hated Harden when he was doing that stuff, but I never wavered on this guy's impossible to guard.
12:09Well, listen, I agree with you, and I think we feel the same way.
12:13I think Nick is wrong.
12:14I think that you and me and Jonathan all agree that Nick is wrong.
12:17But the great, silent majority out there agree with Nick,
12:21and they're waiting for the other shoe to drop.
12:25And they think the long game is they're going to be right, judged by the Cavs' history.
12:28I don't agree with it, but they do.
12:30Are those fans, you think those fans are Guardian fans too?
12:32You think they're all pretty big Cleveland fans?
12:34Yeah, they're all Cleveland sports fans.
12:34Why would you ever watch a regular season Guardian game then, if that's your approach?
12:38Like, wake me up when the playoffs start.
12:40Okay, what am I supposed to do all summer?
12:42Am I supposed to just wake me up when the playoffs start?
12:44Does Nick do that with the Guardians?
12:46I think that a lot of them do do that.
12:48I think they watch the games, but I think that they do act that way.
12:49And then why would anybody ever watch the Browns ever with that mindset?
12:52Why would any of you care about football?
12:54To me, it's a way to protect their feelings, Anthony.
12:56Okay, so don't care about anything.
12:57Why is this just a Cavs thing, is my question.
13:00Well, I'm not asking them to be nihilists here.
13:00Somebody's got to explain that to me.
13:02The Cavs, their move that they went out and made,
13:05much like at the same time the Browns made their move for Watson,
13:08their move has worked.
13:09Like, Donovan Mitchell's been amazing.
13:11He's been a top 10 player the whole time here.
13:13Probably better.
13:14Probably top 7.
13:15He was all NBA first team last year.
13:16He's easily the second best.
13:17Not easily, but he's the second best Cavalier to ever do it.
13:20And he's an amazing playoff performer.
13:22In the playoffs, he takes his game to another level.
13:26That should be something you guys should absolutely love.
13:28So what is it about the Cavs that they are held to a different standard
13:32that it's, well, are they the favorites to win the title?
13:36No.
13:37Wake me up when the playoffs start.
13:39Why don't you guys do that for the other teams in town?
13:41I think a lot of them have seen.
13:43Well, I think some of it is that we take them for granted.
13:45I mean, it's been 20-something years.
13:47I think so.
13:48So LeBron ruined it for the Cavs.
13:49You're an older guy than some of the people that do it.
13:52Like, you paid attention as a child.
13:53There were a lot of people who made fun of guys like you.
13:56I'm sorry.
13:56In my neighborhood, there were guys who made fun of guys like you
13:59for watching the Cavs with Andre Miller.
14:01Like, I made the joke about it.
14:02I didn't even make a joke.
14:03I said, guys, like, I had to sit there and grab the remote away in the living room
14:07to watch the Cavs.
14:09And, like, when the Cavs went down by 20, it's like, give me the remote.
14:12We're done with this garbage.
14:13Like, my dad doesn't like the NBA.
14:14My dad doesn't care about the Cavs.
14:16And there was one TV in the house, and it's Andre Miller.
14:18And I'm 13 years old.
14:19I'm going to watch Andre Miller.
14:20So you and I become defensive over it as kids.
14:22But I'm just saying this.
14:23I think a lot of people, they don't remember old, terrible Cavs basketball.
14:28And LeBron set a standard that I don't know if anybody can really attain.
14:32So then they just always wait for it.
14:33And when you're told over time, when you lose those series, real quick, when you lose those
14:38series, then when you're told terrible things about your team using the S word, yeah, it's
14:42not going to go over well.
14:43So it is because the Cavs have been, by far in this town, the best combination of playoffs
14:49slash regular season, they've been, by far, the best.
14:53I mean, the Browns aren't even in the discussion.
14:54They don't ever make the playoffs.
14:56You're right.
14:56And the Guardians, while they make the playoffs, it's just so stacked against them.
15:00We all know that they're in an uphill battle, but maybe people just love baseball because
15:05they go out and it's great weather and it's a social event too.
15:09But because of that, now it's they have to win the championship or nobody's having fun
15:14with the Cavs.
15:15Because obviously when I go to Cavs games, that's not the case.
15:18The Cavs atmosphere is one of the best top five in the NBA.
15:22When you're giving up, I think what you're getting.
15:24So who are the people that are hating people that hold them to a different standard than the
15:28other teams in town?
15:29Well, you and I are going to be the first ones to say like, hey guys, they don't just
15:32stand, they don't just hand out championships.
15:34I think what you're getting is a standard set that if, if the Browns would have had any
15:38success with Deshaun Watson at quarterback, but they wouldn't have gotten over the hump.
15:42I think a lot of people would be very critical of that.
15:44Now, obviously they come with a different set of circumstances, clearly with the two trades
15:48that were for three first round picks.
15:50But I think this is what you're dealing with.
15:52You're dealing with expectations that rise.
15:56And when they're not meeting those expectations, people are going to protect their feelings
16:00and say that they just don't take them seriously.
16:03And so you get what Nick said yesterday and what he's been saying for the last couple of
16:07weeks.
16:07And so I think that's going to be the last couple of years.
16:07I think the last couple of years, this is the last couple of years ago.
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