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00:00They're talking about more interesting trades.
00:04Oh my god!
00:09Oh boy!
00:11See, we should just get a wheel on quarterbacks to just
00:15and just stick it to the board and that's the day we talk about that guy.
00:19We're not getting, until the draft's over, guys, it's just gonna happen.
00:24It's just gonna, I gotta deal with it, you gotta deal with it,
00:26Tone's gotta deal with it, Tone's gonna be one of the purveyors of it.
00:29I mean, that's the way it goes.
00:30So, I wanna ask Ryan Wilson about the draft, clearly.
00:33And Ryan Wilson joins us on the Make It Right, Call Call, Right Hotline.
00:37He's from CBS Sports, CBS Sports NFL Draft Analyst, CBS Sports NFL Writer.
00:42With the First Pick podcast, there's a lot of draft,
00:44but there's gonna be an interesting trade that I have to ask him about
00:47coming up towards the end of this interview.
00:49Hello, Ryan!
00:50Hey, good morning, guys. How you doing?
00:52We're doing okay. I started off the show, I was in a bad mood.
00:56For a St. Patrick's Day, I'm just in a hellacious mood.
01:00Cynthia Freeland, she was just the bearer of bad news for me.
01:02I wouldn't rip on her.
01:03But she was on afternoon drive yesterday.
01:06And the prediction markets, you know, she falls the odds and all that stuff.
01:09And the prediction markets have the Browns taking a quarterback rather high
01:13in the NFL draft.
01:14And the only other quarterback I can think, unless the Raiders just give you Fernando
01:18Mendoza, which you're not gonna do, is Ty Simpson.
01:23What if the Browns took Ty Simpson?
01:25What would your reaction be?
01:27First question, six or 24?
01:31Either.
01:31You think it matters?
01:32I don't know if it matters to me.
01:35Maybe it doesn't.
01:36Here's the thing.
01:36Ty Simpson's a good football player.
01:39The concern or the knock or the trepidation is that the second half of the season,
01:44he struggled.
01:45And he struggled, we later found out, because he was banged up.
01:47And he was pretty banged up.
01:48And I talked to a couple of his teammates.
01:50And we talked to Ty as well, the Combine.
01:53And they said, number one, he's a great locker room guy.
01:56And these were one-on-one interviews.
01:58So, I mean, they could have just said nothing, I suppose.
02:00It wasn't like they felt obligated to.
02:02And he's incredibly tough.
02:04Because if you remember, the first half of the season, he was slinging it to the
02:07point that we were having serious conversations about who might be quarterback one.
02:11And Fernando Mendoza had a good start to the season, but he wasn't lights out.
02:14And the team wasn't quite the Hoosiers team that it ended up being.
02:17We didn't know what they were going to turn into.
02:19Ty Simpson can ball out.
02:21And this is going to sound like a backhanded compliment, but it's not.
02:25If you go back to when this young man was coming out of college, and I'll make the reveal
02:30in a moment, so it sort of sets the suspense here, and then try to envision Ty Simpson as
02:35a better version of this player, better arm, better athlete.
02:38There's some Mac Jones in this game.
02:41You can't say it without laughing.
02:42But Mac played well last year, and he played well his rookie season before they thought a
02:46defensive coordinator would be in his best interest as a young quarterback in the NFL.
02:50And I think the issue with Ty is going to be 6'1".
02:53I think his arm's big enough.
02:55He would have the best arm of the quarterbacks the Browns drafted a year ago.
03:00And even though he only started 15 games, he's 23.
03:03He's played a lot of football, his dad's a coach.
03:05So I think there are a lot of positives to Ty Simpson.
03:09But at the end of the day, and you guys know this, because you sit there and watch it
03:12every single year, fit matters.
03:14And if your organization doesn't have the infrastructure to support a young quarterback,
03:18put Patrick Mahomes on that team.
03:19That team's going to stink.
03:20So I don't hate the idea of Ty Simpson.
03:23I just want to make sure that there's a plan in place to help Ty Simpson or whoever the
03:26QB is succeed on some level.
03:29Do you believe that the Browns can help that young man?
03:32No.
03:33Not as it's currently confident.
03:34You wanted to say no.
03:35Just say no.
03:36It's okay.
03:37It's all right.
03:37Defense is great.
03:38How about that?
03:39Got that going for us.
03:41All right, so they didn't, Ryan, at least we hadn't heard of an offer or anything like
03:45that, or whether they got involved in the bidding war for Malik Willis.
03:49There's been no Anthony Richardson trade, but that's the rest of the league up to this point.
03:54Kyler Murray didn't seem very interested, and maybe that was mutual.
03:58So how big of a win was this for Shador Sanders, at least this preliminary period?
04:03Yeah, absolutely, for now.
04:05And I don't think, you know, Ty Munkin, I think it's just sort of not said much of anything
04:09in terms of what his plans are at quarterback, but I think no news is good news for Shador
04:14Sanders because, you know, Todd is as grizzled and a veteran of coaches as you could have.
04:19And actually, I think he's going to be actually pretty good for what the Browns need and what
04:22this offense needs.
04:24But for the fact that he has been mom is probably good news.
04:29Let me ask you guys, Giff, on the outside looking in, is Dylan Gabriel a third-round pick?
04:33Like, that's a wrap?
04:34Like, we're done with that?
04:35I kind of feel that way.
04:37I mean, unless...
04:38Like, I kind of find it hard to believe he's even on the roster after they bring in a veteran
04:43or whatever they do to round out the room.
04:47So it feels like...
04:48I had heard at the time that Stefanski was high on Dillon, and that's why he went ahead
04:52of Shador, and then obviously everything that happened after that.
04:54It just seems to me, in retrospect, 10 months out, seems like a wasted pick of a third-rounder,
04:59but, you know, here we are.
05:01I could have told you that 10 days in was a waste of a pick.
05:04Come on.
05:06You'd be nice.
05:07I love the guffaw from Ken.
05:09But I do think it's good for Shador.
05:12He's got to play better.
05:13And I know it's incredibly divisive to talk about Shador not in glowy terms, but the reality
05:18is he could have played a lot better football.
05:20He had some moments that were good, and he had a lot of moments that weren't great.
05:24And again, you can say the people around him weren't great as well, and I think they've
05:27made some moves to fix the offensive line.
05:29They've got to get a wide receiver.
05:30The running backs will be healthy.
05:32Those are all great things, but Shador has to elevate his game for the Browns to be taken
05:36seriously.
05:36Ryan Wilson joining us from CBS Sports with the First Pick podcast, NFL writer, NFL draft
05:41writer.
05:42Monroe Freeling is shooting up the board right now for a lot of folks.
05:47Is six too high?
05:50Yes.
05:50Why?
05:51He's a good player.
05:53But, I mean, if we're looking at the offensive tackles we've been talking about since August,
05:59and he's played just as many games as those guys have, he's, to me, a first-round, second-round
06:06guy.
06:06That doesn't mean he won't go in the top ten, but if we're talking about these offensive
06:10linemen, I would take Spencer Fano or Caleb Lund with the two Utah guys.
06:14I would take Caden Proctor ahead of him.
06:17And then I have him in the same range as the right tackle from Arizona State, Max Iannachor,
06:20and then Blake Miller, the right tackle from Clemson.
06:22Clemson, now Monroe plays on the left side.
06:25So, the other thing is this, is DeJuan Jones, are we done with that?
06:28I know he's battled injuries.
06:29I know he's going into the final year of his rookie deal.
06:31But it feels like, to me, there are bigger needs at guard, where they have currently Tevin
06:37Jenkins, and wide receiver.
06:39Like, if we're sitting there at six and the conversation is Carnell Tate or Monroe Freeling,
06:43I'm running up there to get Carnell Tate.
06:45Monroe Freeling may not even play his first year.
06:48Carnell Tate would be the wide receiver one the second his name is announced.
06:52So, that is confusing to me, because I've heard it elsewhere.
06:56Doesn't mean the Browns won't do it, but that's just my perspective, given, you know,
06:59I've seen all these guys going back to last summer.
07:02Why is Carnell Tate better than Mekhi Lemon?
07:06Different.
07:07They're not much different in terms of how I had them graded, but Mekhi is 5'11".
07:12He ran the 4.52.
07:13I do not care.
07:14He plays so much faster than that.
07:16He is Amon Ross St. Brown.
07:17So, he's going to be an inside-outside guy.
07:19He has returnability.
07:20He's incredibly tough.
07:22The thing I like about Carnell is that he's going to be 6'3", and he's going to win down
07:26the field consistently.
07:27And, you know, one of the things Shadour does well is he throws the ball deep.
07:30And if you give your wide receiver a chance to make a play on the ball, Carnell's coming
07:35down with him more times than not.
07:36Now, Mekhi is, too, but the reality is it's one thing to whip up on, you know, Big Ten
07:42cornerbacks, and then another thing to have to battle AFC North cornerbacks weekend,
07:46and I think you get that advantage with Carnell, who's obviously played in the same weather
07:52from Ohio State.
07:53But if you took Mekhi at 6', I'm not going to get angry about that.
07:56I would take Mekhi from Rope Freeland as well there.
07:58So, you don't buy the normal strategy or at least some of the preconceived notions that
08:05normally if you can't get your tackle early, like the drop-off is immense as compared with
08:13wide receivers where there doesn't seem to be all that big of a drop-off in most drafts.
08:17No, that's fair.
08:19And I get that.
08:20And look, if you love Mekhi at 6', I suppose you could take him.
08:22But I'll just circle back to the original question, Lima.
08:26If you traded for Titus Howard, and if DeJuan Jones is your left tackle, is Monroe Freeland,
08:31what's he doing next year?
08:34That's a totally fair question.
08:37Yeah, true.
08:39I mean, look, here, I'll say this.
08:42If you took Venga Yawane, the guard from Penn State at 6', that would make more sense to
08:48me than taking a tackle there, only because he's going to start on day one.
08:51I'm not saying you should do that, maybe trade up from 24 to 18 or whatever, if that's your
08:57prerogative.
08:57But I'm just trying to figure out where you're putting this guy.
08:59You need guys to play right away, and I suppose you could trade DeJuan Jones or have a plan
09:05for him, but if the plan is for him to play at least one more year and figure it out,
09:08I'm
09:09just curious why you would take a tack.
09:11Let me circle back around here.
09:13Say you took Carnell Tate at number six.
09:17Ty Simpson was still there, like 18, 19, 20, somewhere in there.
09:21Would you go and get him?
09:22If he was there at 24, would you take him?
09:24Does Carnell Tate, a new offensive line, that defense, a new coach, does it change everything
09:31for you?
09:32With that one pick, going into the back of the first round?
09:35No, not for the Browns right now.
09:39So no QB in the first round, too much of an investment, they're ready for 20, 27.
09:43Yeah, and you guys talk about getting a tackle 24 when it's tackle three or four or five.
09:48History says QB not one typically struggle as well.
09:53A couple years ago, that draft may be the exception, but we could argue that three of those quarterbacks
09:57taken in the top 12 have not worked out and may not work out.
10:00So it's a crapshoot, and I just would not give him the way.
10:05If we're the Rams, sure, we can roll the dice on, because you don't need Ty Simpson to play
10:09right away, because then it becomes all the pressure that Shador and Dylan had to face
10:12last year.
10:13All right, put him out there.
10:14Oh my gosh, he's struggling.
10:15Okay, we got to draft Archie Manning, and I would just rather avoid that, get two really
10:19good players who could play.
10:21Do you have a thought when it comes to teams dealing with free agency or trades when you
10:27have to overhaul completely an offensive line?
10:30Some numbers came out yesterday for one of their offensive linemen who's going to be 30
10:35that they push the money forward.
10:37And, you know, you're normally overpaying anyway in free agency and through trade.
10:41So how do you feel overall that they handled the offseason when it came to the offensive
10:45line?
10:47I think Titus Howard is a great pick.
10:49I think, Ken, you and I talked about this, that he does not want to play guard, so he's
10:53the right tackle.
10:54Fine.
10:54I love it.
10:55I think Zion Johnson was inconsistent early on in Los Angeles.
10:59I think he had a good year last year, and he played left tackle at Boston College coming
11:02out, and he can play center as well, so he gives you that versatility.
11:05And Elson Jenkins makes sense.
11:07I think what they did in free agency is a great start.
11:10And maybe they're not that far away, because defensively, we know how good they were a year
11:15ago, and we'll see what that looks like in a world with a new coaching staff that doesn't
11:20include Jim Schwartz.
11:22But I think if you get these two players right at 6 and 24 that maybe probably aren't quarterbacks,
11:29and then you can build around a young quarterback, because we say it all the time, like, Bo Nix
11:33isn't Patrick Mahomes.
11:34So Bo Nix is in a fantastic situation where you can win with Bo Nix, and that's the plan.
11:39And maybe the Browns aren't that far off because their defense is so good.
11:42Like, the offense in Denver isn't setting the world on fire.
11:46They can run the ball a little bit, not a lot.
11:48They can dunk their way down the field, and I think Todd Munkin, you can accuse him of
11:53being too gruff at times, but I think he's really good at getting the most out of an
11:56offense, especially with a young, potentially athletic quarterback.
11:59We'll see how this works out in terms of who the actual quarterback is.
12:03But if it's Shador, he's not quite Bo Nix athletically, but he can move around a little
12:06bit.
12:08So you and I agree, because I'm getting told I'm afraid to take a QB.
12:12I'm getting told that.
12:13I'm like, I'm not afraid of anything, guys, but I think there's a lot of people that just
12:18want to be entertained, and I think they have trouble handling that.
12:22You know, we have this legendary player on defense.
12:25We have another really good player on defense.
12:27I mean, we've got a good defense, and I think it's an AFC championship game level defense,
12:32and we have this offense that's, I mean, you saw it over the last couple of years.
12:36It's one of the worst we've ever seen, and I think that it feels like maybe some people
12:40are running out of time, or they want to be entertained, and I'm just going, guys, like,
12:45this is the bed we've made.
12:46We're going to have to lay in this bed for at least a year.
12:48We've got to get to 2027 when it comes to that quarterback.
12:51Or, you know, maybe Shador surprises a lot of people and takes off as the quarterback of
12:55this football team.
12:56I think I'm being practical here.
12:59Why would I be wrong to say those things?
13:01Because it sounds like you agree with me.
13:04No, I do agree with you.
13:05And if we want to keep, look, there's no crime in taking a quarterback in, you know,
13:10every draft if you want to, but you can't take one in the first round every year because
13:13you're basically starting over from square one because the expectation is that quarterback
13:17is going to play as a rookie, and then he's going to struggle, and then you've got to have
13:20this, you're stuck in Groundhog Day having the same conversations.
13:24I think this team in the short term, maybe they're not that far away.
13:29Defensively, they're fine.
13:30We'll see what it looks like without Jim Schwartz there, and we can't control that.
13:33But what we can control is getting a wide receiver who can help this offense immediately
13:38and perhaps get an interior offensive lineman if that's the direction you want to go.
13:42Two players who can play right away.
13:43You can draft a tackle and kick him inside for a year.
13:46You can draft a tackle and move on from DeJuan Jones.
13:48All those things, to me, seem in the better interest of the team in 2026 than taking Ty
13:54Simpson, who's going to have to make the transition to the NFL.
13:57And how often does a player go to a bad team and ball out?
14:01I suppose you could say C.J. Stroud did it in 2023, but they had a lot of other pieces
14:06around him.
14:07They made a lot of moves from 22 to 23 to get better.
14:11Jayden Daniels in 2024, same situation.
14:13They got a lot better over the course of that offseason.
14:16If you're convinced that the Browns have improved to that level, then go crazy and draft Ty Simpson.
14:21But it feels like, to me, the better choice would be to get two players that you know can
14:25play right away.
14:26I don't know Todd Munkin's history with rookie quarterbacks either, and I haven't looked into it.
14:30So I don't know if he's pro or con for that.
14:33But as an old-school coach, I would imagine he wants the best players that can help right
14:37away.
14:38All right.
14:38I got 60 seconds less than.
14:41Kyler Murray's going to be the starter in Minnesota, I imagine.
14:44So what do we do with J.J. McCarthy?
14:47Leave him there?
14:47Could the Browns trade for him?
14:49Would you advise that?
14:50No.
14:50No.
14:51Leave him there.
14:52He needs to learn how to play the position.
14:53He's frantic, and he's a hot mess, to put it kindly.
14:58So yeah, he needs to have the no pressure of being the backup and go from there.
15:03He can certainly turn his career around, but why would you trade for him?
15:05What's the plan after you trade for him?
15:07Well, how could Justin Fields not get himself figured out with the Steelers?
15:12Gosh, you're disgusted.
15:13You were disgusted by the question, Ryan.
15:16He was so much better at Ohio State.
15:19He's the Benjamin Button's quarterback, and I can't explain it, and it drives me crazy
15:22because there's so much potential as that 10th overall pick.
15:25So yeah, it's crazy to me.
15:27Hopefully Andy Reid can unlock that because he has a chance to be really good, but we're
15:31in whatever, year six or seven now.
15:33Ryan Wilson, CBS on Twitter.
15:36He's on social media.
15:38He is the host of With the First Pick podcast with Rand Carthon, CBS Sports NFL writer, NFL
15:42draft writer, Ryan Wilson.
15:44Ryan, thank you very much for the time, my friend.
15:46Thank you, guys.
15:46He's on the Make It Right, Call Kyle Wright hotline.
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