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00:00Between the quarterback situation you put yourself in,
00:03the type of quarterbacks that the Browns like,
00:05across the board, it just doesn't really seem to add up.
00:09But now this puts the Browns in the quarterback situation they're in, right?
00:12Which they've gone all year.
00:13We've speculated about free agent quarterbacks,
00:15which every name was thrown out there,
00:18potential trade quarterbacks, every name thrown out there.
00:21And yet still so much of this year, it felt like, you know,
00:24somebody would throw out a name, somebody would throw out Malik Willis.
00:27And I'd have a conversation and be like,
00:28well, him and Deshaun have the same agent.
00:30Like, that's not happening.
00:31Like, we talked to John Ledger at the one show, this was on a Monday.
00:34I talked to him yesterday.
00:35I'd asked him about that, I think, last week.
00:37And he was like, he talked to people at the combine.
00:39He was, immediately as he brought up that conversation,
00:42it was not happening.
00:44Like, it's never, the Browns situation is never happening.
00:47Daniel Oifusi said the same thing.
00:50And where the Browns have now stood pretty solid throughout this,
00:54because there are names that they could obviously have gone and get,
00:56there are still names in theory that they could go and get.
00:59But right now, the messaging, at least in my eye,
01:02seems pretty clear that we, I don't know if you want to say comfortable
01:06is the right word, but they are at least content moving forward in this thing
01:10with, we have Shador, we have Deshaun, Dylan's also here,
01:15and we're moving forward to the quarterback room as it stands up to now.
01:18So, they shouldn't be content or comfortable, but, I mean, it's what they have.
01:24And, well, right now what they have isn't all that great,
01:27and so they just have to make the most of it, right?
01:32So, I don't see anything to be gained by putting Deshaun Watson on the field at all.
01:37They're going to try.
01:38You know they're going to try.
01:39That's why Adam Schefter went on the Pat McAfee show
01:42and said what he said a week ago about it.
01:45And, you know, people are saying, well, yeah.
01:50So, and even if he wins that job,
01:54which I think there's a very real possibility he will
01:56because he's going to look great in practice,
01:59but we know what happens in games when he comes back from long absences,
02:03and that is he looks lost.
02:05He sees ghosts.
02:06He doesn't know what he's doing.
02:07The timing is off.
02:09So, that's fine.
02:10Deshaun, I have an idea of what the results on the field
02:14are ultimately going to end up being
02:15because I just, I don't think it's fair to Deshaun
02:17to sit here and expect just because he's making $46 million a year
02:21in the final year of his five-year contract
02:23that he, after playing 19 games in five years,
02:29missing two full seasons in there as well,
02:32that he's going to be this elite player this year.
02:34I think that's completely unfair to Deshaun to even contemplate that.
02:40It's not going to happen.
02:43So, that's just the reality.
02:45He hasn't played anything resembling elite football in six years.
02:50So, I don't expect it to change this time around.
02:54I think the Browns are better served organizationally
02:57if they go with Shadour day one, week one,
03:01have Deshaun be the backup, be the mentor,
03:04you know, help him just like Deshaun did last year.
03:07To Deshaun's credit, did a real good job working with Shadour.
03:10And, you know, something like a lot of people
03:12are not talking about this offseason.
03:15You know, I'm hearing just how much Shadour is in the building right now.
03:19And he doesn't have to be in the building right now.
03:21And, you know, they're not allowed to talk football
03:23because it's not the offseason program yet.
03:25But he's in there doing his own work on his own.
03:29And I think that that is something that
03:33I'm about to commend him for doing something he should be doing anyway.
03:36But, like, I think that's a little different than, you know, last year, right?
03:41He got a hard dose of reality of what life in the NFL is like for a quarterback.
03:47So, the fact that he's in the building on a regular basis right now
03:50trying to get a jump on a whole new offensive system
03:54and coaching staff and understanding that he's going to have to compete
03:58with Deshaun Watson, I'm sure Shadour watches Instagram
04:01just as much as the rest of us do, right?
04:03So, you know, the fact that Shadour is, you know,
04:09around the building as much as he is
04:10and putting in his own work to prepare himself for this competition,
04:16you know, I view that as a pretty strong positive for him.
04:19And I think there's a lot of things that line up with Shadour getting his shot this year.
04:24I mean, just from, again, the seven games that we saw last year.
04:28Plus, I think there was, I mean, and Coach, you can talk about this a little bit better,
04:32but I know that through our conversations, we saw improvement throughout Shadour
04:36in the seven games, even if it was, you know,
04:38well, the footwork's starting to look a little better
04:40and he's making minor steps.
04:41I mean, starting games in the National Football League,
04:43you've got to prepare for the next team.
04:44There's only so much improvement you can make during the season.
04:47But more of the conversation of what does an offseason look like, right?
04:51Like, that's the part that a lot of the times I think in these conversations
04:54get almost thrown to the wayside is,
04:56okay, this is the last I saw of Shadour Sanders.
04:58He picks up there week one next year.
05:00There's some of that, learning the new offense, all of that goes into it.
05:03But there was an offseason to get better.
05:05And he's in the building.
05:06He's trying to get better.
05:07He still has to learn a new offense.
05:08But mechanically, and the things that obviously, like Kevin Stefanski
05:12and the previous coaching staff wanted you to do,
05:15the things that he was heavily critiqued for were not,
05:18oh, it's specific to Kevin's scheme.
05:20A lot of that was you just have to be better as a quarterback.
05:23Well, first, you know, everybody's critique on him falling backwards, right?
05:26So I actually saw that as a positive early on, and here's why.
05:30At Colorado, he had to buy time.
05:32And when you have to buy time, you're getting bad habits.
05:34But he was trying to do whatever he could to buy time.
05:37Then he corrected.
05:38I thought he did a nice job of correcting that.
05:40Now, when they say Deshaun is going to play this year or he has a chance to start,
05:43going back to what Daryl said, you would hope the reason they say that
05:47is because there's an honest competition.
05:48Because as a coach, none of that what's happened before should matter for Todd Munkin.
05:54To us it does, but it shouldn't matter to Todd Munkin
05:56because Todd Munkin's thing should be we've got to win.
05:59So if there's an honest competition, the one thing I've said while Kevin,
06:02the one criticism I always had of Kevin,
06:04and I have a lot of good things to say about Kevin as well,
06:06is I never thought practice was physical enough.
06:08I never thought they created enough live bullets.
06:11So if they create enough live bullets as much as possible,
06:14and it's really hard to do for a quarterback because they don't ever take him down,
06:17but if everybody else is playing live, then if he's the best guy, then I think he plays.
06:20Then you're going to be delighted to do what Todd Munkin said,
06:23and that is they're going to be live in practice.
06:25And last year was the first time that Kevin was live.
06:28They did a couple team sessions, yeah.
06:30So you're going to love training camp this year, Coach.
06:33Well, and that's the thing.
06:33So if that happens and Deshaun is the guy, then he's the guy.
06:37And that tells everybody in that locker room, even if they like Shador,
06:41that won't limit his ability to lead because they had an honest competition.
06:45He is still learning.
06:46He is still getting better.
06:47And he got beat out by a guy who has a lot of experience,
06:49even though he hasn't played well in the last five years, which I agree with.
06:52But he has played well, and he understands the NFL.
06:56So there's a chance he could look really good.
06:58Now, injuries, all those kind of things,
07:00I look at it as more than one quarterback is going to play.
07:03Shador got a lot better.
07:04But for me, I want the best guys out there.
07:07I want to create a camp that creates competition.
07:10If you're coming into a program that has been struggling,
07:12whether it's high school, college, or pro, you've got to change it.
07:15And hopefully Munkin does that.
07:17And if they do have an honest competition, Deshaun wins, then he plays.
07:20And everything that happened in the past doesn't matter.
07:22But that doesn't mean that Shador doesn't have his place as well.
07:26So, Coach, let's look at it honestly.
07:28Like you look at Deshaun,
07:29hasn't played a live football game in over 700 days.
07:32Now, for the second time with just a, what, handful of games,
07:35like seven games in between that, essentially.
07:37Or, I guess, a little bit more than that.
07:40You had the 19 games in between that,
07:41but spread out between multiple injuries,
07:43where he had another 700-day break.
07:45And this is a double Achilles tear of a guy who likes to move around,
07:48going up against Shador.
07:49I mean, he's someone who knows the position well.
07:52How far does that set you back from what we saw of him the last time he was on
07:56the field battling back from injury to now you have to come ramp right back up
07:59and get back to it again, and you are going to be rusty.
08:02Like, there's going to be rust that has to be knocked off.
08:04Does he really have a chance to win that competition?
08:06Well, I mean, and if he does, great, then he wins it.
08:09But it can't be because he didn't do it in the past, right?
08:12That's the thing that it's really hard for coaches as well.
08:15Like, what happened before?
08:17Because Daryl said it best.
08:19When Deshaun Watson is practicing,
08:20I've watched a lot of quarterbacks playing,
08:22and a lot of people have.
08:24Deshaun Watson's really special.
08:25He's a special thrower of the football.
08:27His movement skills, his fluidity, it's special.
08:29Now, he's had multiple Achilles.
08:31He's had shoulder injuries.
08:32I don't know if he's ever going to be that guy.
08:34But for me, it doesn't matter what happened in the past.
08:36And although it was rust, if he's not the best guy because of rust,
08:39then he doesn't play.
08:40Like, that's the reality of it.
08:42If Shador beats him out,
08:44because that can't be the answer anymore, right?
08:46You're rusty.
08:47We've got to get you going.
08:47Who's the best guy?
08:48The same thing I'm saying about, you know,
08:50Shador not being able to get it.
08:51It's the same thing for Deshaun.
08:53He doesn't get that excuse anymore.
08:54If everything's clear, clean slate moving forward,
08:57that means the injuries, those don't matter anymore.
09:01You've got to go out and win the job right now.
09:03And I think if they create competition,
09:05that could be a good thing for both of them.
09:06His last training camp was a disaster, okay?
09:10And then he went out for seven games
09:13and was a disaster before he got hurt.
09:17Like I said, I just, I'm trying to,
09:20it's not I'm hating on Deshaun.
09:22I'm trying to be honest with fans
09:24and set the bar of expectation.
09:27And if Deshaun ultimately wins the job,
09:30the bar should be extremely low.
09:32It really should.
09:33And if he exceeds those expectations,
09:36that's gravy in the bowl.
09:38Now, I think that that would then just totally mess up
09:41your plans going forward and muddy the waters.
09:44And if I'm Andrew Barry right now,
09:46I don't know that I even want to explore doing that.
09:49I think this is, again, this is the year,
09:50you got to find out if Shador can do this thing.
09:53If he can do it, then you are in the cockpit going forward.
09:58So you're taking, are you taking, let me ask you this,
10:00are you taking, let's say Shador is, has a good camp,
10:03but not quite as good as Deshaun.
10:05Are you still starting Shador?
10:08Probably, yeah.
10:09Okay.
10:09See, I'm different.
10:10Because my thing is, is that if I had a dollar
10:15for every time a Browns quarterback looked great in training camp,
10:19and then a 3-13, 4-12, 5-11, or 5-12 season follow that,
10:27I wouldn't be sitting in this chair right now.
10:30I'd be on a beach on an island that I own somewhere in the middle of the ocean.
10:34Okay?
10:35I've seen it all the time.
10:37And the thing is, is like,
10:38we don't even know what a great quarterback looks like here in Cleveland.
10:41Okay?
10:41Someone comes in and can throw a tight, deep spiral,
10:44a nice back shoulder throw, or over the shoulder, in stride.
10:48We're all oohing and eyeing at practice,
10:51because quite frankly, that's stuff we don't get to see.
10:55Because we get to see guys like Dylan freaking Gabriel in practice.
11:02We get Johnny Manziel.
11:05We get Deshaun Kaiser.
11:08Okay?
11:09That's what we get to watch.
11:11So every time, like when Deshaun came here,
11:15his, like that first year as he was going through the legal process
11:20and the stuff with the league,
11:22he looked spectacular in practice that offseason.
11:27And we're all sitting there saying,
11:29okay, I can see why they accepted the baggage
11:32and they gave up everything they did to get him here.
11:34This by far is the best quarterback we've ever seen
11:36wear a Browns uniform throwing footballs in a Browns practice.
11:41Then, did the 11-game suspension,
11:43he comes back and he don't know what he's doing out there.
11:48So that's...
11:49Well, I'll say this.
11:50How do you feel about this, though?
11:51The idea, I have a question for both of you.
11:53What about the idea that Kevin was doing everything he can
11:57to try to maximize his skill set?
11:59And for me, what ended up happening is Kevin had no idea how to fix it.
12:02Because you're not running your stuff.
12:04I don't think Kevin ever wanted Deshaun.
12:07So when you're talking about, and I agree with you,
12:09but when you're talking about, like,
12:11then it happens in a game where things are moving fast,
12:14and as a coach, he didn't know how to fix it.
12:16Because in practice, it's easy.
12:17Everything's easy.
12:18You're not being touched in practice.
12:19So in games, when you're, when things get live
12:22and they change coverage or the front or the blitz,
12:24and then all of a sudden, you really don't, in my opinion,
12:26you really don't have the answer as a coach
12:27because it's not your stuff.
12:29You want to know where Deshaun looked his worst
12:31in that last training camp?
12:33Was when the Minnesota Vikings were in town.
12:34Yeah.
12:35They couldn't, I mean, you were there, you saw.
12:36They couldn't line up properly.
12:38They couldn't, they couldn't do the basics of lining up,
12:42running the pre-snap motion and the eye candy
12:44that we all, you know, talk about, like we lamented this year,
12:47you know, so many fans like,
12:48Kevin Stefanski's offense this year is just so basic and simple.
12:51There's no pre-snap motion.
12:52Well, they're too dumb to run it right.
12:55That's why they don't run it.
12:56The players don't execute it.
12:58So we got to dumb it down.
13:01Okay?
13:02I don't think it's necessarily dumbing it down.
13:03I think it's just what he knows.
13:05It might be not as, it's not McVay,
13:08but I just think watching it,
13:10I just don't think he, he understands,
13:11like it's not his thing.
13:12He's like, you're doing things like you don't,
13:14I felt like Kevin was doing things.
13:15He just didn't understand how to do it.
13:17It didn't fit him.
13:18And it looked out of place.
13:20Too many false starts.
13:21Too many illegal formations.
13:23Illegal motions.
13:24Illegal shifts.
13:25Like every time they tried to do motion,
13:27flags were coming out.
13:28So I think that gets better with Munkin though, though.
13:30Now Munkin's saying,
13:32here's the thing I like about,
13:34and you and I always stand in there,
13:35the idea of these two are going to maximize their skill set
13:40and whoever wins, wins.
13:41And that's kind of what I like in terms of,
13:43it's not who's going to be best in the system,
13:44it's going to be best between those two.
13:46And I think whatever happened with either of them
13:48doesn't matter moving forward.
13:50Hopefully that was your thought.
13:51Because everything you're saying,
13:53those couple days in Minnesota was as bad as it gets
13:56at a pro level.
13:57They couldn't do anything right.
13:58Because I think they were trying to do things they couldn't do.
14:00And because Minnesota came in working on,
14:03to your point,
14:05Minnesota came into those practices working on their stuff,
14:07working on their disguises and their coverages
14:09and their blitz packages
14:11and showing their defensive pre-snap-eye candy and stuff.
14:15And that was messing with Deshaun's head.
14:17He couldn't process any of it.
14:19So, yeah, I think that there's more to be served for the greater good
14:24if Shadour wins this job.
14:27Now, to your point, Coach, yes.
14:28He needs to go out and earn it.
14:30And then that feels even better.
14:32Right.
14:32You know, that's even better than the locker room.
14:33He's got to earn it.
14:34You can't just give it to him.
14:35You can't just anoint him, right?
14:38But hopefully, that's why I'm hoping,
14:40that he can go out and just earn the thing.
14:43And then we can spend this season figuring out
14:46whether or not this kid can do it
14:47to inform the team-building process going forward in 2027.
14:52I think it's really interesting.
14:53Because to your point,
14:54I think that he probably didn't know how to fix
14:57what was going wrong with Deshaun.
14:59Even in his own offense,
15:00I didn't know that he knew how to fix
15:01what was going wrong with Joe Flacco,
15:02Dylan Gabriel, and Shadour Sanders.
15:04It's the worst.
15:05And I will tell you, as a coach,
15:06it's the worst when you're like,
15:07we're going to do that because this guy does it.
15:09And then all of a sudden,
15:09it doesn't work because it's not on air.
15:11And you're like, all right, I don't know how to fix it.
15:13And you're like, I got to go back to my stuff
15:14because it might not be great,
15:16but at least I can fix it and we can do it fast.
15:19It's a very humbling thing as a coach.
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