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00:00Coach Riz has been doing his draft work.
00:02He's been definitely, I mean, so gracious to send me over a lot of the work that you do, Coach,
00:07and we are through a lot of this draft right now.
00:09I've done a ton of work on it, and as we gear up, we are now,
00:13we have, including today, six shows before we get to the NFL draft.
00:17To put that into perspective, which I didn't really plan that out in my head
00:22until, like, how far we were away, and I was like, a month and a half.
00:24When you say it that way, that hits a little different.
00:26Yeah, it gets, you start to get a little panicked.
00:28You're like, six.
00:29I'm like, all right, well, I've got to get through six more weeks,
00:31and then all of a sudden we're fully into draft swing
00:34and covering Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
00:36We'll have nine new Cleveland Browns.
00:39Probably somewhere around there, right?
00:40Andrew Barry will probably try to win.
00:42Probably end up with anywhere between seven to, like, 13, knowing Andrew Barry.
00:47But, so, Coach is doing a lot of his work.
00:50He's doing it by position.
00:51We're going to get into this, and as these things go,
00:55we're going to look at a lot of the positions, probably here starting out,
00:57some of the positions that maybe don't seem as positioned in need for the Browns
01:00that are in this class, and then probably work our way as we get closer to draft time
01:04into a lot more of your, oh, well, the Browns probably will take a wide receiver
01:07this year.
01:08I can almost guarantee you that's probably going to be happening much closer
01:10to the draft time than today.
01:11I'm just wondering if Coach is saving the quarterback for the last show
01:15before the draft.
01:16Save that one.
01:17You never, I mean, listen, if we get word, if Coach tells me,
01:19don't go to that quarterback yet, then I'm going to have to push that one back.
01:22But we are starting.
01:24We're going to do running backs here.
01:26Linebackers is coming up later in the show.
01:27But from a very basic standpoint, Coach, because I talked to a bunch of people
01:32who obviously are covering the draft, and all I've heard about running back this year
01:36is it is a very shallow class, not a very good one,
01:39and it's one of the few things on, you know, why this class has kind of taken the
01:44probably misled word of, oh, well, this isn't a very good class.
01:47Running back is almost at the top of that list of shallow
01:50and even the top-end talent out of, like, Jeremiah Love.
01:52It doesn't seem like there's a lot there.
01:54You know, for me, I think differently.
01:56Like, when I watch Jeremiah Love, Jeremiah Love goes into the game-changer mode,
01:59but he's the only one that does.
02:01So when I think about a guy who, regardless of what you have on your team,
02:05if Jeremiah Love is there and the Browns are taking him, it wouldn't bother me.
02:08I think Jeremiah Love is a guy who can play in the slot, extremely explosive.
02:12If you watch him, he's a game-changer.
02:15However, after that, you know, a lot of people have different guys they like.
02:18You know, Mike Washington out of Arkansas is a guy that will be late.
02:23These guys are all going to be late around, day two guys, besides Jeremiah Love.
02:27I really like him.
02:28Judarian Price, the other back at Notre Dame, he's a big kid.
02:31He can really run.
02:33There's a kid named Damon Claiborne out of Wake Forest.
02:36He's a guy that might be really good for Monk, and he's a smaller guy, shifty,
02:39can do something out of the backfield.
02:41But, again, they have a guy like Dylan Sampson.
02:43So I don't know if they would go do that.
02:44The guy that I think would make sense for these guys is Emmitt Johnson out of Nebraska.
02:50Again, guys who are versatile or guys who can get downhill.
02:53And there's kind of, in this draft, when I look at the backs,
02:56there's kind of two different types.
02:57There's guys who are put your foot in the ground and get downhill, zone guys,
03:00or more gap guys who can read a little bit and kind of explode, be patient,
03:04and explode when they get there.
03:06Once again, though, I don't think it's a bad class.
03:09It's a position that's not as valued as it once was.
03:12But there's some really good backs out there.
03:13You just got to go find them.
03:15And you got to get – this is one position, if you don't take a game breaker,
03:19you figure out what your offense is going to be, and you go find that guy.
03:22Like, I think Dylan Sampson is going to be awesome this year
03:23because Monk really isolates those backs on linebackers and things like that.
03:28So find out what you're going to do with those backs
03:30and go get your specific guy for your scheme.
03:32The question I would ask, okay,
03:34so the Browns are probably going to keep three running backs.
03:36Right now, I think that's obviously Quinshawn Judkins, Dylan Sampson,
03:42and most likely it's going to be Raheem Sanders.
03:46Now, what that leaves you with is the practice squad
03:51because that's where you're looking for to some of these lesser-known
03:56or non-highlighted guys that folks talk about or the later-round picks.
04:03Like, that's, I think, where Andrew Barry will be looking potentially at that position
04:09through, again, whether it's a sixth- or seventh-round pick
04:13or undrafted free agents to look for guys that can come and help out on the practice squad
04:19because there's no such thing as enough depth.
04:22Injuries happen, okay, and you don't want to think negatively in that space,
04:26but as a general manager, when you're managing your roster,
04:30you do have to plan for, okay, what do I do if X player goes down?
04:35And so I think that that's where running back comes into play for the Browns
04:44when you're talking about this upcoming draft, maybe not at the top end
04:47like Quinshawn was a second-round pick, right,
04:50and then they come back a little later and they take Dylan Sampson.
04:53We do the double-take, like, wait, I thought they just drafted a running back, right?
04:58Jerome Ford is gone.
05:00He has signed elsewhere.
05:02So that, for me, when I'm looking, like, at the Browns roster
05:05and where guys potentially could fit, for me, it's depth pieces on the practice squad.
05:11Again, assuming the three guys I mentioned get to week one healthy.
05:16For me, it's like, what do they want?
05:17So you've got a guy, I'll throw you a couple names out here.
05:19Jade Knott out of Oklahoma.
05:21Extremely explosive kid.
05:22Kind of in that Dylan Sampson mode.
05:24My comp is Travis Etienne, a guy who can catch the ball in the backfield,
05:29screens, really good in space.
05:31And then I look at a guy that I love on field, a kid named Jaden Duggar out of Louisiana.
05:35Now this is a guy who's 5'11", 220.
05:37Now you're talking more of a rocket standards where he's more of a red zone,
05:41pound the guy, third down guy.
05:42So what do you want in your practice squad, guys, the guys who are going to show you looks?
05:46You know, you've got to kind of mix and match in what you're seeing week to week.
05:50But there's some guys out there.
05:51Again, a guy like Ott is a guy who's going to blow the game open.
05:54Extremely explosive.
05:55A guy like Duggar is a guy who's a pounder.
05:57He's a guy, my comp for him is A.J. Dillon.
05:59So he's not a guy who's going to break away, but he's tough to tackle.
06:02And if you're trying to, if you're going to, you know, at the end of the game,
06:05do you want to wear teams out?
06:06You're trying to run the ball and get to second six.
06:08I'll be interested to see what they do in free agency late in the day three with these running backs.
06:12So I think this is probably the one part where I get really interested in.
06:16Maybe it's a little bit too inside football, a little bit too niche for it.
06:19But I look at the running backs that you currently have in losing Jerome Ford.
06:22And I think, what did you legitimately lose?
06:24And I think back to last year, when Sean was fine in the past game,
06:29Dillon Gabriel obviously is a great pass catcher.
06:31But when we talk about pass blocking,
06:34that's where I typically thought I saw Jerome Ford more step into the role of,
06:38like even early on in the year, it was Dillon Sampson's not really in there
06:40because the blocking assignments, he's either getting blown up or not getting to his guy.
06:43And we have to put Jerome Ford in the game.
06:45Dillon also had one of the longest touchdowns of the season.
06:48And it was one of those plays where, like, after he scored, I'm sitting there.
06:55I'm like, did I just see what I thought I saw?
06:58And then I'm going back, you know, they start posting the videos on social media.
07:02I'm just like re-watching the highlight.
07:04I'm like, where's that been?
07:06I didn't know he had that extra gear in him.
07:11The question I would ask you, Coach, when you're looking at some of these running backs,
07:14because when you're talking about those back-end roster guys, they do have to play special teams.
07:21You know, where do maybe some of these guys fit in that realm, whether it's in the return game
07:27or, you know, as the gunners and coverage guys?
07:32Well, a guy like Jadarian Price, the kid from Notre Dame, the other back at Notre Dame,
07:36he's the kind of guy that would be a guy who can play kickoff, punt, be a gunner, things like
07:40that.
07:40Jay Knott can be a guy out there.
07:42You know, the thing when you talk about the backs, you guys brought up a great point.
07:45So you have Judkins, who's going to be your workhorse.
07:48So he's going to be tired.
07:49You try not to have him on the field to pass and protect as much as possible, even though he'll
07:52do it.
07:53Then you're in a little bit of a dilemma, right?
07:54And you have to figure out, the thing I like about Munkin is that Munkin is probably not going to
07:59ask Samson to pass protect as much.
08:01So what's going to end up happening is that when he's in the game, you're always going to get five
08:05out.
08:05That's going to put a lot of pressure on the quarterback, right?
08:07Now you have to say, Samson's in the game, third down, we're not blocking the blitz, we're beating the blitz.
08:12Now, Sanders isn't in the game.
08:14Now you're saying, is this more, he's going to be more of a pass protection guy.
08:17Can he catch the ball?
08:18I look forward to seeing him being able to catch the ball.
08:20Because if they have one kind of issue in the backfield right now, I would say that I thought Jerome
08:25Ford, like you said, did a great job.
08:26He could pass protect and he could catch the ball.
08:29Where Sanders is a pretty heavy runner, Samson catches it well, he's undersized to pass protect.
08:34So yeah, I think it not only ties into can they play special teams, Jay not, these guys who can
08:38run really well.
08:40They've got to be able to run the ball, but more importantly, if they're going to be a third down
08:43back,
08:43they've got to be able to pass protect against these big linebackers.
08:46And right now, they don't have necessarily a guy that can do that.
08:48Because Sanders is in the game, no one's really worried about him going out.
08:52Samson's in the game, they're automatically, you're going to get an automatic blitz when Samson's in the game.
08:56They're going to automatically make him pass protect, unless you're hot off him.
09:00So that's what they've got to work on.
09:02But that's what I'm excited about Munkin, because Munkin's not going to ask these guys, most likely, it's not a
09:06system, it's a player.
09:07So why are you going to make your 5'10", 200-pound back, black linebackers?
09:11You can't do it.
09:11You're asking him to do things he can't do.
09:13So that's where, if there is a dilemma, it's not a dilemma, it's just nitpicking, but that's where, offensively, that
09:18would be kind of,
09:19this guy's in the game, this is what's going to happen.
09:21This guy, so they're going to have to work on that a little bit.
09:23Sanders is going to be able to catch the ball a little bit.
09:25And Samson's going to have to be really good and knowing when he's hot.
09:28That's going to be his key.
09:29He's not going to be able to pass protect, he's too little.
09:31All right, Coach, in like 10 seconds, is there a name for a running back do you think people have
09:34been high on
09:35that maybe doesn't deserve as much praise as he's getting?
09:38Let's see, I would say, if I go through my, I would say Jonah Coleman, kid out of Washington.
09:46He's good back, once again, though, I don't know if he has any elite traits.
09:49So he's really good, really productive.
09:51That Washington offense was really spread out, though.
09:53And when you're really spread out, sometimes you get lanes and things like that you won't get in the NFL.
09:58Still really good.
09:58I still have him in my top 10, but maybe not a guy.
10:01Some people have him as high as 3 or 4 or 5.
10:03I don't have him there just because of the offense he played in college.
10:07We're going to get into linebackers.
10:09He did running backs earlier.
10:10You can go back and listen to it.
10:11Coach Riz has got us with all the hookups, everything that he's watched so far.
10:15Coach, let's start before we get into the individual, you know, what this linebacker class is.
10:19You look at where the Browns are at linebacker.
10:21Obviously, it's added Quincy Williams.
10:23You look at, you have Carson Swessinger.
10:26Does linebacker, I mean, even as we talk a little later in the draft, make a lot of sense?
10:29Is it a questionable pick?
10:31Like you're almost adding just a guy for talent at that point?
10:33Or does it kind of fill a need on the depth rotation at least?
10:37Well, there's some guys in this draft that really fit the need in terms of, you know,
10:40do you have to necessarily, these guys, these guys coming in the NFL now, if you think about
10:45like Arvel Reese and Sonny Stiles, you necessarily don't have to go nickel to go nickel anymore
10:50because these guys run so well and do different things.
10:52So, yeah, I think it makes sense if there's a guy who can help you and maybe keep the personnel
10:57group that's in there.
10:58You can do more things with him, bring him off the edge, off the ball linebacker.
11:01And a guy like Sonny Stiles, you can put him on the half.
11:04I mean, you're talking guys who have elite skill sets and multiple skill sets.
11:08So, where I don't know if they need a thumper inside, the true linebacker, the 6'2", 240-pound
11:14guy that plays between the, you know, tackles.
11:16And there's a couple of those guys, C.J. Allen, there's a couple of really good of those guys.
11:19And I think if you see a guy that can be a multiple guy in what Rutenberg wants to do
11:24and allow you to not maybe bring in nickel personnel but play nickel kind of concepts,
11:31yeah, I think those guys are always out there and always available and guys you want to look
11:35at for sure.
11:36Okay, so you mentioned Arvel Reese, Sonny Stiles, two guys who obviously are at the top
11:40and more than likely might not be there when the Browns are drafting at 6.
11:436, is there more of like a, I hate to use this word because it sounds demeaning, but
11:48like a discount one of those guys, right?
11:50A budget guy, a little bit later in the draft.
11:53A budget Arvel Reese.
11:54I mean, it's still a really good player.
11:56They're in a car.
11:57Well, like I said, I think the next best couple linebackers are Anthony Hill and Jacob
12:01Rodriguez, but those are more box players.
12:03Though I love Jacob Rodriguez, I think that kid can play anywhere.
12:06I think he's a football player more than any measurement.
12:09Even those measurements were good.
12:11A kid out of Texas Tech can play.
12:12If you're looking for a guy who is a guy who can do multiple things, Jay Sean Barnum
12:16out of Michigan.
12:17He was outstanding.
12:18If you remember the game, he was number one.
12:19He played off the edge a little bit, but he's a guy who can stand up.
12:23He's a guy that can play linebacker.
12:24He can come off the edge.
12:25He can cover a nickel a little bit.
12:27He can cover a slot.
12:28So if you're looking for that multi-verse kind of linebacker, I say JC Barnum from Michigan
12:33is a guy who can do that.
12:34Another guy inside, Kyle Lewis is really good.
12:36Aiden Fisher out of Indiana is really good.
12:39But when you talk about for the Browns, if you're not going after Arvel Reese, if you're
12:43not going after Sonny Stiles, the rest of these guys kind of fought like CJ Allen's a thumper
12:47out of Georgia.
12:49Josiah Trotter out of Missouri, he's a thumper.
12:51Those guys that play between the tackles stop the run.
12:54I don't think the Browns are necessarily in the market for those guys with what Rutenberg's
12:58going to do.
12:58But a guy that'll be available on day three, Jay Sean Barnum out of Michigan, he's a guy
13:03that can do a lot of different things and is really, really skilled, violent when he
13:08gets to the ball, runs well, short area, burst, lateral, all those fancy turns we like to
13:11use.
13:12He's just a really good football player.
13:13I definitely like that.
13:15I mean, I'll go back to a question Daryl asked earlier.
13:17I mean, you talk about a linebacker that might be the third, fourth guy in the room, special
13:21teams comes up, right?
13:22That's a guy who's got to play.
13:24Yeah.
13:24And if you talk about these guys, these hybrid guys that the linebacker is going to a lot
13:28of, these guys, now all these guys can run.
13:31This off-the-ball linebacker group, in my opinion, even though those guys are thumpers, these guys
13:35can all play.
13:36So these guys are all going to be very, very good for teams that play that style of defense,
13:40but special teams, if you think about the two special teams that everybody talks about,
13:44there's only two that really, as a head coach, that worry you, that lose sleep.
13:48It's punt and kickoff coverage.
13:49You got to have your guys out there.
13:51If you remember, Swestinger going out there.
13:53You got to have some guys out there that you trust that maybe aren't your starters.
13:56There's a lot of really good players out there.
13:58If you're looking for a really good football player, Jacob Rodriguez out of, I don't, you
14:02know, you can never have enough good football players.
14:04The kid out of Texas Tech is always around the ball, had a great senior bowl, ran a lot
14:08better than I, I thought he was going to be a guy that would slide out because his numbers
14:11would be terrible.
14:12He ran well and did all the things well, but he's as good a football player as you'll see
14:15on film this year.
14:16I definitely like to hear that.
14:17I mean, linebacker is such an interesting spot from the Browns because as soon as you,
14:23hey, lost Devin Bush, I immediately thought, well, Sonny Stiles is there at six, right?
14:27That's a guy that I'm immediately turning towards and going, might be somebody that can step
14:31in and help fill that role.
14:32And you're not necessarily thinking a best player available, but does it really fit what
14:36we're doing on defense?
14:37You fill the need.
14:38Throw Quincy Williams in there.
14:39But I think this is where, especially even if you talk like second and third round gets
14:43really interesting, because if you're Andrew Barry, sure, you'd love to get a starter at
14:47that point, right?
14:47That's a home run.
14:48That's Harold Fannin late in the draft on day two.
14:52But if you're thinking in the aspect of, okay, well, I signed Quincy to a two-year contract.
14:56Somebody's got to fill in after Quincy's there.
14:58And that's, I think, the lens you have to look at this through as well, is maybe not
15:05so much a player that can come in and be a tremendous impact from day one.
15:09Maybe he's a special teams contributor starting out, but can grow into a role a year to two
15:17down the road, right?
15:20And so, you know, that's, for me, that's a day three guy, right?
15:26That's where you're using your day three picks on a player like that.
15:31I even think sometimes when you get to day two, you see, like, not so much.
15:34The second round, you want guys who are going to contribute almost immediately off the bat.
15:37But, like, you get into day three, later day three.
15:40If you draft a guy who in two years is pretty darn good for you, I think you feel pretty
15:44good about that if you're Andrew Barry and you have at least somebody like Quincy Williams
15:47in front of him where it's like, well, it makes sense why he's not playing right now.
15:50It's not like we were dead at the wide receiver room, I took a wide receiver, and he just didn't
15:54contribute.
15:55It's like, oh, I had a linebacker, right, Swessinger.
15:58People are going to play.
15:58You're going to play five or six during the year.
16:00You're going to play, you know, that's the nature of this game.
16:01Yeah, there's going to be opportunities.
16:02Yeah, you're going to get your shot, and that's, you know, I'm with you.
16:05And you take, you look, you got to take a guy, in my opinion, like Muhammad Diabate, who has
16:08great traits, or you take a guy like Jacob Rodriguez, who when you watch him on
16:12film, he's just around the football.
16:13You know, that's the day three guys for me, incredible numbers are guys who just, no
16:17matter what it is, they're always around the football.
16:19Yeah, I mean, it's incredible.
16:20I even think about, I think about Harold Fannin that way.
16:22Like, it was almost a no sweat off your back if you're Andrew Barry, because if he comes
16:26in and he's not great right away, David Njoku is still a fine tight end.
16:30Now talking to Baltimore, so they're obviously interested with a guy like Mark Andrews there.
16:33But like, it's not the end of the world if he doesn't contribute right off the bat, and I
16:37take him here.
16:37If he's great in a year, like if I start him next year and he really takes off, perfect.
16:41Like, I now replace David Njoku when the contract's up.
16:45He just happened to actually smack a home run with Harold Fannin.
16:47He was great this year.
16:48But I would imagine that was kind of the thought process going in.
16:52They got him in the building and probably realized he's even better than we thought
16:55he was.
16:55I mean, they raved about him during training camp and as they got closer to the season.
16:59Yeah, and you got Nathaniel Watson, who I think was a six-round pick in 24, right?
17:07Winston Reed is another player.
17:09Like, that's already in your building, but that's still not enough.
17:13Like, you have to continuously build out the depth of your roster.
17:18Those are the guys, and you're right, with this new kickoff, those are the guys.
17:20You're right, Darrell.
17:20Those are the body types that have to cover kicks and have to do it well.
17:24Those are the body guys who could run, cover, hit.
17:27Those are the body types.
17:28And that's why, too, for all the needs they have offensively, and it would behoove them
17:34to use their early picks on offensive players.
17:37When you get deeper into the draft, you really do have to focus on some of your defensive depth.
17:43I mean, that's all part of the roster-building process.
17:46And if you're like Nathaniel Watson, I don't know what his ceiling is, right?
17:50But, you know, if he turns into a role player that you've been able to develop from him,
17:57like, that's a home run for a sixth-round pick, okay?
18:02And so, again, that's why I feel like those day three picks, you know,
18:07we're talking about linebacker here specifically,
18:09but they have other defensive depth needs that they're going to need to fill,
18:13and we're going to go through them as we go through the weeks here leading up to the draft.
18:16But, like, that's the mentality, or at least the lens, I should say,
18:19that I think Andrew Barry needs to be looking at some of these positions through.
18:23I think a very underrated thing about this team is that
18:25the starting 11 on defense looks great.
18:28Start to get a little peel of layers back a little bit.
18:30Maybe a little more concern when you talk about the depth that's on this team.
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