Creative Types with Virginia Trioli Season 3 Episode 1

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Transcript

00:06Jimmy hi nice to talk to you I'm really well well it's going to be a really great chat because

00:16it's

00:16going to be all about your really rich and varied creative life because you're relentless you don't

00:22like to stop do you I find that if I'm not keeping my mind busy a second board and running

00:28off a

00:28tangent and thinking about the wrong things so it's just good for me to stay focused to stay

00:32working that restlessness that relentlessness of yours that actually is creativity for you

00:38yeah I'm constantly trying to find stimulation and when I've got something that appeals to me

00:43I'm like a rabid dog well I'm coming to see you in a place that you can still fill every

00:48single

00:49seat and fill it with that enormous voice of yours too I can feel anywhere I'm a loud person I'll

00:56see

00:56you soon I'm Virginia Trioli and I've spent my life paying attention to creative Australians and

01:06wondering what is going on in that wild mind of theirs in this series I'll showcase artists and

01:14performers at the peak of their powers and tell the story of their triumphs their stumbles and

01:20why they make the glorious work we love so much Jimmy Barnes is one of the most beloved figures in

01:29Australian cultural life both as a singer and a writer his music has become our national soundtrack and

01:41he's forged an unbreakable bond with generations of fans I'm thrilled to be unashamedly celebrating the

01:54art of making because we are a country of so many brilliant creative types

02:09ah Jimmy how are you we found a stadium big enough for your voice and I know that this this

02:18place kind

02:19of feels like a bit of a home ground huh yeah it's a bit of a home ground I've played

02:22here quite a lot it's

02:23normally a bit fuller when I've been here in the past Jimmy what's your connection to this stadium or how

02:38many connections do you have I've got a lot as a fan as a football fan you know I've been

02:43here to see the Matildas and you know watch the grand finals I've sang at many grand finals

02:48state of origins of I'm sang at the Olympics here I love doing it because it's a great discipline but

02:54I love playing in clubs where there's walls because you can really just crank it up and go for it

02:58strip the paint off the walls strip the paint off the walls but I do but in saying that it

03:02is there is something really great when you do get that that balance of that tempo and that power and

03:08and have that connection then it just becomes a really special thing

03:10playing live is everything for you isn't it absolutely I mean I'm I literally make records as a reason to

03:16go out live you know so

03:17I can tell you put your new songs in the set my connection to an audience has always been live

03:29but it's something about when I stand in front of an audience and sing that I feel that it makes

03:33me a better singer and makes me a better performer and I feel more connected I literally feel like my

03:38feet are more solid on the ground

03:47you've always spoken and written about how you want music to be powerful to be heavy to

03:53smash you in the face and to move you and to move you yeah I want people to not be

03:58able to ignore and to

03:59physically experience the music I like bands that you know that you can actually feel the tenacity of yeah

04:05you know it's about it's about an attitude that good bands play with that make the thing powerful

04:21I think one of the things about Jim's work is that he's always been absolutely in the moment which you

04:27need to be to perform at that level from you know the time the first chord rings out till the

04:33time the last

04:34symbol smashes and everyone departs the stage you know covered in sweat with people screaming for

04:40more but it was also very earthy and very upfront and very honest if you like and I think a

04:45really

04:46powerful powerful combination of talents

04:51my band you know before we go on I make jokes about it go out there you know don't take

04:55any

04:55prisoners you know hit them hard if they get up hit them again you know and and so my band

05:00like

05:00they're so used to walking on stage and going one two three four and we're in the deep end

05:04and so that's what I expect my band to do every night well talking of hit them hard I've been

05:09watching some footage of the last stand yeah which we did yes you did you stood up there in 1984

05:15and

05:15said bye-bye although it wasn't really the final goodbye yeah you sang your vocal chords to shreds

05:21during that show didn't you

05:26by the time we came in Adelaide which was our hometown I remember you know done a bunch of

05:30shows there and the last show I was literally singing and spitting blood out from my throat

05:34as I was singing and at the end of the show I couldn't speak and it took weeks and weeks

05:39for

05:39it to come back and for a while I thought you've done it this time you've gone too far yeah

05:42so it was

05:43really it was a fighting time but when I came back for the last shows in Sydney I just felt

05:49I'll be good I promise I lied

06:05the origins of cold chisel and Jimmy's own musical education both took place on the road the

06:12hundreds of hours spent going from town to town

06:26on the road for oh my god years and years and thousands of gigs that's where you learnt to be

06:33a

06:34musician yeah basically you get out there and you you try your things out and every time you know

06:39sometimes you get run out of town because you didn't quite get it right and then you learn and

06:43you do it the next show and you get better as you go and this environment here is where you

06:47spent

06:47you know a lot of time you know honing what your musical tastes were and yeah where you wanted to

06:52take it as an artist you know the car could get very volatile at times it could you know there

06:57was

06:58there's a place where we sort of not only worked out musically what we're doing but uh emotionally how

07:03we were going to stay together and you know as the road went on forever it got harder and harder

07:08because you know you don't want to be too close to you know especially a drunken Scotsman you know with

07:13bad temper whoever was the best prepared had the best mixtapes would be slamming it in the car

07:21deck and you'd be driving and going oh I'm not jazz again mossy you know please no more jazz not

07:26grab it

07:26throw it out the window and he must have hated you do that you know they were busy driving so

07:30I had

07:31two free hands and absolutely no self-control that should be the title of the next book two free hands

07:39no control well Jimmy I made you a mixtape so see what you think of these you know this could

07:48cause

07:48many a fight in the band if you don't like the music here we go

07:58really cool isn't it very cool I love Thorpe I miss him miss him dearly well he was really

08:04important for you wasn't he Billy Thorpe because well yeah he was my hero you know yeah for a long

08:09time just because he like he did things his own way I used to go see him and he played

08:13louder than

08:13anybody else you know he loved it pushed his band to the limit he pushed himself to the limit yeah

08:18pushed his guitar amps to the limit all right so here's a musician who everyone reviews and I think's

08:38got an importance to your history have a listen muddy waters oh yeah how fast is this though I mean

08:47it's

08:47a really fast rhythm it's like the church yeah yeah so I used to listen muddy waters when I was

09:03really

09:03young because my brother John Swanee I was like he's my big influence when I was a young singer because

09:08Swanee had great records it was in blues bands and when he was you know 12 and 13 he had

09:13great

09:13musical taste he had great musical taste so I used to hear this coming out of his bedroom and then

09:17and

09:17you know I'd try to sneak in when he's playing it he'd throw me out but uh when he'd leave

09:21I'm with the

09:21guy I'd be in there playing his records to my friends you know and turning them all on the blues

09:25muddy

09:26waters was one of his favorites so that was my early sort of because I listened to Little Richard

09:30muddy waters you know Otis Redding oh mainly black singers yeah and then and then when I turned about 13

09:36I

09:37started you know like most young boys are starting full of testosterone I like you know hard rock

09:40bands yes well if we're talking about driving and life on the road there's really one very important

09:53song I think we need to play here have a listen to this it's a good driving song it's a

10:01good driving

10:02song is it still nice to hear it you know what it's one of my of all the chisel so

10:06I love chisel

10:07but it's one of my favorite songs to sing in the world people stop me in the street and say

10:17you know

10:17um you know I played this song I'm a I danced with my dad at my wedding to this song

10:23yeah you know I you

10:24know buried my son to this song yeah this first a song to have touched so many people it's an

10:30exciting

10:30way so just yeah yeah I really makes you realize that you know you're not on this it's not a

10:34journey

10:35just about yourself it's something you're sharing with people and being around for 50 years yeah you

10:40should get to share a lot with people but it's it's modern Australian poetry this yeah Don's a great

10:48poet yeah I I feel like I wouldn't be the singer I am if I hadn't lucked out and joined

10:55that band in

10:561973 just to you know be the guy who gets to sing Don Walker songs oh yeah that that's but

11:02that was my

11:02job and it was so special the way Jim sings really was was a foundational influence on the way I

11:17write

11:17songs I really like his voice I tried to tell him over the years because occasionally he gets drawn

11:25into the acrobatics of what he can do and I tried to tell him like the magic in your voice

11:31is just the

11:33sound of it when you sing one night nobody can match that but I sing this life all these people

11:44always say you know you have to always sing so live you scream so much yes I do I like

11:50it that's why I was

11:51good here this is my job

12:21Jimmy you and I were talking in the car about the nature of your writing and creative relationship

12:27with Don Walker tell me about that what what is the nature of that relationship why does it work so

12:31well as a boy I'm you know obviously my dad was not in the picture of lock he spent a

12:36lot of time in

12:37the pub when when he was there and when he left when you know when I was about 10 you

12:41know he

12:41disappeared for many many years so I didn't have a lot of good male role models in my life I've

12:47done

12:48felt like my like since the day I joined the band he felt like my big brother and was always

12:51caring

12:51for me you know there's times literally where I've thought he must have been reading my mail

12:55because I'd be going through something in my head you know and it's been driving me crazy and bubbling

13:00up and and suddenly there'd be something in a song would just point to it you know just the melodies

13:04alone I mean I think I made I'm a better singer because I'm singing John's melodies and and this is

13:09about his incredible range and what he asked of you as a singer in the rest of the band in

13:14this song I

13:15mean this is a really beautiful bit of cinema verite by Richard Lowenstein oh Saturday night and

13:20of course it's you and Ian wending your way through the crowds and you chance upon the Mardi Gras parade

13:25and I know it's got great meaning for you but that becomes this wonderful moment of discovery and

13:30welcoming and acceptance in a really unusual place

13:41you know Don was writing to to suit Ian and myself who are total different singers there so

13:49it's a great juxtaposition all the time between when Ian sings these nice soft

13:53sweeping melodies and then I sort of come in and tear the paint off the walls yes

14:04and it was it's incredible many years later when I did the Mardi Gras you're in but you were invited

14:09to sing I was invited to sing in the Mardi Gras which I thought was a huge honor and I

14:12and I took it

14:13very seriously I went there and there was all these men I met who said like some of the drag

14:18queens

14:18on the stands as they go past are no longer with us because they lost a lot of friends you

14:23know

14:23from suicide and AIDS and all sorts of things through there and the only film of them in full

14:28bloom so to speak is in our film clip and they said that makes them cry when they see the

14:33song

14:33that's amazing

14:36after the breakup of cold chisel in 1983 Jimmy embarked on a hugely successful solo career

14:43let the carry on blue denim in his veins embracing rock soul and r&b digging deep into the musical

14:53influences of his childhood I want to go back to a key influence for you though and I know this

14:59was a

14:59real awakening moment for you musically when you watched the Douglas Sirk movie imitation of life

15:06yes yeah with your father which featured an incendiary performance by Mahalia Jackson

15:12unbelievable unbelievable who was singing in the funeral scene yeah and that song was so affecting

15:17for you as I understand it just because of what it could indicate that a powerful voice can do

15:22shall we have a look

15:32she's so beautiful yeah

15:42by this point you know I was sort of snuggling next to my dad because it was an excuse to

15:46sit with him

15:47and and do something with him and so I'm sitting with him and I'm sort of just snuggling into him

15:51and suddenly this woman started singing and I was like you know I was eight or something I sat up

15:56what did it do to you so I was so moved and it was so powerful I was sitting there

16:00going man this is

16:01something special and I remember you know literally what waited for the credits and at the as the

16:06credits rolled it said Mahalia Jackson and and I thought to myself I want to call my my first daughter

16:11Mahalia how would you describe Jimmy Barnes as a musician what impresses you well he loves his music

16:17and he knows it very well he's got a very deep knowledge of like the musical canon he's somebody who

16:23attacks the song literally but technically as well and then you've just got something which

16:27you can listen to time and time again you know and get more and more out of when you do

16:31listen to it

16:34despite enjoying immense success professionally

16:38Jimmy's ghosts were catching up with him and he was spiraling

16:44what was happening to you in your life when you got to that point

16:47by the time I was falling apart you know I mean I was absolutely out of control the amount of

16:53drugs

16:53I was taking you know I don't want to document it because it glorifies it but but it was just

16:59stupid

16:59events and you know and I look at you know Michael and you know I've lost friends you know along

17:04the way

17:05and I just thought I you know I don't want to be like that

17:11so then when you sat down to to pour this pain out in these celebrated books that we've got

17:17here yeah it seems like it poured out of you and it almost came out word perfect

17:23it was it was a difficult time so I started seeing a therapist you know and I don't do anything

17:28in

17:28half measures when I started going I ended up going you know five days a week you know for an

17:32hour a day

17:33and he was going we've got a lot to do here yeah we've got a lot to work on and

17:37then as the book

17:37progressed I started having to ring my therapist like at the end of each day because it would stir up

17:42so much pain and stuff in me and I talked to him and I remember once I was talking about

17:47my mum

17:47throwing pots across the bloody the the kitchen that my father and all that sort of stuff and

17:52and I and it was a particularly traumatic day and I rang him I said it just seems like there's

17:57something

17:57more and I just I don't know what it is and I and you know the violence in that we've

18:01seen in the

18:01house and all he said was what did the kitchen smell like and so suddenly that sense just brought

18:09back all these other memories of that of the home and the power of sense memory yeah the smell yeah

18:14oh shit I hadn't even thought of that and so I rewrote that whole thing you know and when I

18:19released

18:20it I realized that there's so many particularly men who had gone through so much of the same stuff

18:24and didn't want to talk about it and I know and it was killing them just like it was killing

18:27me

18:29he's a very good writer I think when he put out working class boy someone in my family who

18:35had a literary background said so who's writing this and she had known Jim for many decades at

18:45that stage and I said well it's Jim and she said are you sure because it's very very good I

18:52said no

18:52he's not this isn't ghost written this is him when you talk to him you very quickly realize yeah that

18:58the guy I've seen on the page I'm talking to them now were there any similarities any parallels with

19:06songwriting with it with the deep digging you had to do with these books to the kind of creative work

19:11you do with songs the main thing I noticed particularly after writing that first book

19:15um my songs they weren't as shallow yeah I'd because I'd like I'd like something I'd write rock songs and

19:22it'd be

19:22about being aggressive and I did a lot of press talking about this book where I think I went from

19:28being brave you know like bravado beating my chest and you know I'm not afraid of you when I was

19:32afraid

19:32of Everton to being courageous and you know the courage courage to ask for help you know yeah and

19:37the first time I let my guard down and and that applied to songs I went from writing songs about

19:42you

19:42know you got nothing I want angry or you know yeah I love you so much you know without even

19:47thinking

19:47about what love is you know to writing songs about feelings about things things with substance and

19:53more depth so this is our home studio ah you've got your own studio here and it's sort of it

20:08started

20:08out because it was a photo studio when I bought the place and yep so we decided you know we

20:12were taking

20:13photos we were making music so we soundproofed the place and that way we can you know it's got

20:17floating floating floors and walls it's a beautifully dead room isn't it yeah and so we can make noise

20:22all night without the neighbors crazy most young kids know you can make a record in your garage with

20:28a laptop yeah so it's somewhere between that and one of the big super studios and you can do anything

20:33you want in here I've made but must have made about 10 albums in here look it's an interesting

20:37contrast isn't it because you know you love live live is your thing but you've ended up actually

20:42being quite at home and very successful in a studio yeah but I don't spend a lot of time

20:48mucking about in the studio I like to do preparation get in the studio and play live what's that there

20:54come and I will show you walk this way I can see something through there this is very special really

20:59intriguing so this this it looks absolutely fabulous I must say when coaches I think we're doing the

21:09perfect crime or something like that yeah we went into 301 studios and we all set up to play live

21:14and Dom sat at this uh the beautiful grand piano and he's playing it and he could see he was

21:19like

21:19fidgety and it didn't sound right from wasn't sort of edgy enough and he's going I don't like it

21:23well can I use that piano over there and they said oh that's not really a recording piano it belonged

21:28to Hillsong yeah and Don said just bring it over here but let me try it we tried it and

21:33it was the

21:33best sounding piano ever very bright aggressive yeah Don plays piano like he's got boxing gloves on

21:41he plays really heavy it's good and at the end of the sessions we said look we would love to

21:46buy that

21:46piano he said oh you'd have to give them what they paid for it we said okay well how much

21:50they paid

21:50two hundred dollars oh no yeah and and that's literally been here and Don uses it when he

21:57records he records quite a bit here and I just love the fact that it's Don's and we get to

22:02use

22:02it all the time and every time you play it it sounds like Don oh and you've got a little

22:05bit of Don

22:05here I've got a bit of Don with me all the time that's nice how does a song start for

22:16you I've got

22:18books everywhere but this one in a tartan excuse me of course yes well I've tarted up my lyrics this

22:26I

22:26had this book since about 2000 year 2000 oh yeah right you can see at the front here but it

22:31was going

22:31to be a diary oh yeah but then I didn't want anybody to read it uh so I turned it

22:36over I flicked

22:37it over and started writing lyrics and I just thought anything that comes to mind I've got set

22:40lists I've got ideas for song titles I've got things there's there's lyrics in here that I don't

22:45want anybody to ever see and some because they're so bad some because they're so drug crazed some

22:50because they're so personal and some because I was in the process of working out what I felt

22:55uh but since that time I've done you know at least 10 albums and this book's represented on nearly

23:02every album that's amazing it's water wash all over me squeeze me till I cannot breathe

23:06blame me so I cannot see uh what else we've got fuck love well we've all been there I want

23:14to talk

23:14to you about collaboration because that's been a huge part of your musical life you collaborate

23:18a lot what do you get from that and what are you reaching out for when you might think about

23:24a

23:24collaboration I haven't sang with a singer that I haven't learned something from whether it's

23:28something not to do or something to do you know like uh you know look at Tina you know I

23:33remember

23:33singing with her and her ability to switch it on on a dime singing with Hutch you know I just

23:39good

23:40times that was a song that we picked together because uh Glenn A Baker sent us a version of good

23:45times

23:45which is a it was an easy beats piece that's right and singing with Michael it just made me sing

23:50different notes it was a happy surprise that this easy beats classic lent itself so well to the

23:58contrasting voices of two revered Australian singers creating a new energy and requiring much more of

24:05the artists they were a band that had serious groove it sounded just like them and to get a foot

24:17in the door and

24:18actually be a part of that sound for a minute it was really special interesting you should mention that

24:23song because it's something that you actually did with um your lovely daughter Mahalia as well yeah let's have a

24:30look

24:55what does it feel like singing with your daughter uh it's incredible I mean how are you saying when

25:00me in the band since she was about 14 and you know all the girls have been in and out

25:05of the band

25:07it's something about family singing together it's a beautiful thing it's a lovely thing

25:27cultures are really in a sense will am I right in saying always continue to exist in one form or

25:33another as long as we're standing and we can and we can play loud and proud we'll play you know

25:39when when

25:39Steve passed you know we literally we took the wind out of all of ourselves we didn't think we'd ever

25:43play again as a band and it was it was so strange because um we were brothers and I couldn't

25:49imagine

25:50another drama fitting in for Steve you know and then after a little while somebody said oh have we

25:56thought about you know Charlie Drayton and Charlie told me a story that the day Steve died when the

26:01news came out he and Chrissy because he was Chrissy was his Amplit was his partner Chrissy Amplit who

26:07fantastic friend of mine dear friend of mine when the news came out you know she said to Charlie said

26:12you know I think if they're going to play again you're going to get a call and he went silly

26:15and then

26:16about four or five months later you know somebody said you should try you should try and Charlie and so

26:22we we rang and he said I was waiting for your call that's right he never tried to play like

26:27Steve but he

26:28always paid homage to Steve and took the band to a new place and you know I can't say that

26:34it's

26:34better than it was because there's something about Steve's Liverpool aggression that I loved that's

26:40missing but I think Charlie brought more swing to the band and which is really interesting because

26:46we're not quite as heavy as we used to be but we swing and like a rusty gate it's really

26:52really great

26:53it's not about bludgeoning people to death anymore it's more about you know killing people softly with the

26:58grooves in it and I think that gives us that means we've got another 20 years that we've still got

27:02to experiment with that you know there's a certain swagger when you walk on stage with the best guitar

27:10player maybe in the world certainly in this country and the best two singers and when I get to sit

27:20next

27:20to Charlie Drayton who everybody in America wants to play with you feel like king for a little for a

27:27short moment

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