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2020.03.00 - Chi l'ha visto_ 2020 - 2020 - Ilaria Alpi e Miran Hrovatin, il silenzio della giustizia
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00:03Music
00:58Music
01:01Music
01:05This guadberg, beautiful and good, you can see that they went to certain places that they shouldn't have gone
01:18Room
01:38Each piece of luggage, each suitcase, each package was taken separately from the rest of the baggage,
01:43opened, completely emptied and then every single thing was put back in the suitcase with its description.
01:50Listen, when this operation is finished, do you remember whether these bags were sealed?
01:56Yes, yes, yes, they are sealed, they were sealed as they were inventoried.
02:05The seals had disappeared, so we understood that the block notices had disappeared from that stretch,
02:13the papers she had on the table, the videotapes I forgot to tell her about.
02:23It was considered that there was no hypothesis of crime because there was not, as I want to say,
02:28a state seal affixed to that package.
02:35Good evening, in these few seconds of images, words, and sounds lies the beginning of a terrible story.
02:41Ilaria Alpi and Miran Crovatin are killed and immediately someone makes the block notices and videotapes disappear.
02:46And then we heard it, for the Italian justice system breaking the army seals is not a crime because they are not
02:52state seals.
02:53Well, from this, from all this, begins 26 years of cover-ups and the search for a truth that is not
02:59has not yet been found.
03:00And that is why we are here with you this evening, despite the sense of bewilderment that we are sharing with you.
03:06you.
03:06We are dealing with a virus that is killing men and women and creating suffering in our families.
03:11And just think, in our editorial office we have seven editors in precautionary quarantine.
03:16You may have heard, last week, during the broadcast, we had a guest who later tested positive.
03:23But we're continuing to work, and Federica Sciarelli will return to prime time starting Thursday, March 26.
03:30And we continued to work for this evening too because certain battles cannot be stopped even in the face of
03:36'emergency.
03:37In a few days, the Rome Public Prosecutor's Office could once again request the case be closed regarding the deaths of Ilaria Alpi and Miran.
03:44Crovatin.
03:45Well, we are here to ask you to continue investigating.
03:49We definitely will, we always have.
03:51We have been doing it since March 20, 1994, when the news of their death was given by a colleague, Flavio
03:59Fusi, during a special edition of Tg3.
04:02Good evening, special edition for some tragic news that affects all of us at RAI, especially those of us at Tg3.
04:11A colleague of ours, a friend of ours, Ilaria Alpi, was killed a few minutes ago, no more than an hour ago
04:20in Mogadishu.
04:21Another colleague was killed with her, another colleague of ours and another dear friend of ours,
04:30'operator who accompanied her.
04:32The news has arrived, you saw Ilaria Alpi in the picture.
04:40This morning she had finally arrived in Mogadishu and was preparing to send us her first service from Mogadishu, well, this first one
04:48service that was supposed to be performed today.
04:51These are the images we were able to collect.
04:55You will understand in these moments of great tension, of great emotion.
04:59She was a colleague of ours, she was a friend of ours, a young girl who wanted to work, she had won a competition
05:08to enter RAI
05:09and who had spent months with us, learning the trade with us, becoming a good reporter, a good
05:18journalist.
05:19This is what we can tell you now.
05:23Our two colleagues have been killed, this is the news we have received so far.
05:29We conclude this extraordinary meeting of CG3 here. Good evening.
05:33She was very ironic, she always had a joke ready and she was funny, she was cheerful, she was full of interests, full of
05:48curiosity.
05:50She wouldn't have liked being a journalist sitting behind a desk, so she chose foreign affairs.
05:57Try a little?
05:59Try, try, try, try.
06:01One, two, three, try.
06:03Go.
06:05The pilot...
06:06Wait, I left two Americans, sorry, the can.
06:12Some have been here for months, waiting, no one even knows...
06:16I'm making space.
06:18When you want?
06:20Friday of prayer, Friday of protest...
06:23Excuse me, are you going?
06:23No.
06:24Why did you change everything?
06:25But what strength...
06:27Alberto, Alberto Calvi, accompanied Ilaria to Somalia many times, with the camera on his shoulder,
06:33she with the inevitable red notebook in hand, together trying to understand, to tell the story of that distant and tormented land.
06:41Eh, I miss it.
06:43I miss him.
06:44I miss everything.
06:47Ilaria and I spent almost 200 days in the hell of Somalia.
06:55I had on soldier shoes and she was turning those sandals.
07:03I used...
07:06I would take myself to the armed guards and she would sit among the people.
07:12She threw herself into the crowd.
07:15She had faith in people.
07:17She wanted to tell this story.
07:19She wanted people to tell her story.
07:24This was the feeling she tried to convey in her stories.
07:31Sitting among people, understanding, telling.
07:34Ilaria speaks Arabic, a degree from the Institute of Oriental Languages of Sapienza University in Rome,
07:39three years spent in Egypt to perfect the language.
07:42And from there, from Cairo, the first reports for Italia Radio.
07:46That passion for journalism born on the school benches.
07:49Ilaria, during school, when she was attending middle school,
07:54he went to a so-called experimental full-time school.
07:58And in the afternoon they did some activities.
08:00And she had chosen to do the school newspaper.
08:05And from then on she began to say that when she grew up she would be a journalist.
08:12He won a competition at Rai and after a short period spent at RaiSat,
08:15she is called to the foreign news desk of Sandro Curzi's Tg3.
08:19Let's hear from our correspondent, Ilaria Alpi.
08:21From there, the first trip to Somalia.
08:25We were Telecabul then.
08:28And so the mission of our newspaper, the editorial line,
08:33was to somehow unmask this American operation,
08:39this false goodness of the rest of the European Americans,
08:43and that of telling instead, in some way, going to find,
08:46we are talking about the years of clean hands,
08:49to go and find the wrongdoings, or the alleged wrongdoings,
08:53of Italian cooperation.
08:55Become an expert, Ilaria, on that country.
08:58The situation in Mogadishu has been extremely tense for several days.
09:03He returns to Somalia, building relationships especially with women,
09:07his key to enter that difficult world,
09:09made up of clans and tribes at war with each other.
09:13She on TV talking about the war, Luciana and Giorgio, her parents at home,
09:18to look at her, to wait for her.
09:20We never argued, there were discussions like everyone else,
09:25but I remember that when we went to pick up at the airport,
09:27Sometimes I complained, Ilaria told him,
09:32but if you came back to Colma, you would tell us something different.
09:35No, no dad, about these things, because maybe she wanted to protect us from fear,
09:41from anxiety.
09:43And a proof that we gave her, if you look at her services,
09:47you can see that she appears very little, you can see this hand with the ice cream in her hand, etc., etc.
09:52We were saying, Ilaria, come and see us so we can know how you are, you know.
09:56She is always there, among the people, even in the most dangerous situations.
10:00Like when the Americans bomb a villa where they think Idid is hiding,
10:05warlord, enemy number one.
10:07He is not there, it is a massacre of civilians.
10:09Journalists rushing to document the carnage are surrounded by a crowd
10:14enraged.
10:15Four colleagues are massacred.
10:18Ilaria miraculously escapes.
10:20After the killing of our colleagues, after the bombing of the supposed Idid summit,
10:30we were almost all about to leave.
10:32Journalists wanted to leave Somalia because it had become...
10:37Oh sure, they had killed some of our colleagues, in cold blood.
10:41They all go away, but not her.
10:46Here she is, in the crowd, once again, telling her story.
10:50We passed through this crowd, which was the same one that killed our colleagues.
10:55the day before.
10:56I was on the stand, in fact you see that the position is made for the other and she is in the middle
11:01to people to say, let's stay here, let's tell your story.
11:07And there was someone who said that Ilaria was on vacation in Somalia.
11:13Someone wrote that Ilaria was on vacation.
11:16These are Ilaria's holidays.
11:19Ilaria has been to Somalia seven times, but on that trip, the last one, Alberto Calvi
11:24he's not with her.
11:25Before leaving Ilaria had called me, I had to go and it's something that I
11:30I never forgive myself, I will never forgive myself.
11:33Why didn't you go Alberto?
11:36In the meantime I had fallen in the mountain and hurt myself.
11:40And then, before leaving, they hadn't guaranteed us a sufficient supply of money.
11:46to be able to set up our standard, that is, to have the escort as we have always had it.
11:52Despite her limited resources, Ilaria leaves anyway.
11:55Miran Rovatin, a 45-year-old colleague from Videoest in Trieste, is leaving with her.
12:01Miran worked in the Balkans, he is a war expert.
12:04I worked with him in February in Sarajevo.
12:09A few days before leaving Miran called me and told me
12:12I'm going to Somalia, I finally can't stand the cold of Sarajevo anymore, I'm going there because it's sunny,
12:18It's hot and we said goodbye like this.
12:21Miran was 45 years old, had a wife, Patrizia, a 7-year-old son, Ian, and so on.
12:29Ian was 7 years old when his father died.
12:32He's a man now, but he still doesn't know who took him away from him.
12:36At 2 a.m. the bodies of Ilaria and Miran arrived at Ciampino.
12:40Miran was transferred to Trieste, where the prosecutor's office decided to proceed immediately with an autopsy.
12:45Ilaria, on the other hand, is in Rome, where an incredible legal affair begins.
12:50One misdirection after another will lead to even an innocent person being sent to prison.
12:53Yet everything was clear from the very beginning.
12:56A close-range shot to the head, not a robbery but an execution.
13:00But it will take years to determine all of this.
13:03Yet there was a person, a doctor, who was on the ship Garibaldi,
13:06who had no doubts from the beginning.
13:08And Gianvito Cafaro heard it for us.
13:11Suddenly the alarm sounded.
13:16So that meant two doctors had to go on board the helicopter.
13:20in emergency mode because something had happened.
13:24And so, being in an emergency, I head from my dressing room to the infirmary
13:30and I'm getting ready for the operating room.
13:33So I start washing myself.
13:35Meanwhile, the news arrives.
13:39These are two injured civilians.
13:44One is definitely dead.
13:47We're trying to revive the other one.
13:49Where were you in relation to where the incident happened?
13:54How far away, more or less?
13:55We are about a mile and a half from the coast,
14:01that we do a bit up and down in front of the Mokadisho.
14:04We are not standing still.
14:05We are always moving slowly, they say.
14:08So a mile and a half for the helicopter is five minutes.
14:13So you could get there directly?
14:16There was a security issue on site.
14:22Evidently whoever called heard us answer
14:26that the helicopter was not flying for safety reasons.
14:29The only safer place was the old port.
14:33The air had clothes full of blood
14:36which made me think that there were other wounds on the body
14:41besides the one in the head.
14:44But then when we undressed her
14:47we found that it was completely clean
14:50and that it was a single shot.
14:52The shooter aimed at the head.
14:55Yes, it was safe right away.
14:58It was probably approached from a distance.
15:00There were no other injuries anywhere else on the body.
15:03There were no others nor even a glimpse
15:06except for the graze wounds on Ilaria's hands
15:08but that they were to protect themselves from...
15:11Why Ilaria saw something wrong in a face
15:13the people they threateningly took out before
15:16Erovatin and then I turned to her.
15:20So Ilaria also had...
15:23Burning your fingers
15:24but why surely...
15:26For the defense attempt.
15:27That's right, he put it behind his head.
15:29And what about Miran?
15:30He only had a shot in the temple.
15:33Well, there too she had a confirmation.
15:35which had been a point-blank action.
15:38Yes, yes, point blank.
15:39There is no doubt.
15:39A short distance away, here.
15:42Doctor Rossitto, you obviously reported all of this.
15:46Yes, I did the reports.
15:49I made three.
15:50She knows that these reports of Ilaria and Miran
15:53were they handed over to the magistrates two years late?
15:57Yes, this was told to me by the Admiral.
16:03who commanded the mission
16:05who called me after two years
16:08and he told me, he says, but about that matter of Ilaria and Alpri
16:12There is no documentation.
16:14And he explained to him, but I documentation
16:15He made one to the ship, one to the command.
16:18I say, but there must be another
16:20to the health inspectorate
16:21where all the medical supplies ended up.
16:25And then to the health inspectorate Palazzo Marina
16:27then this file was traced
16:30and it was finally available after two years.
16:34Of course if they had asked me
16:36two months later, three months later
16:40I would have told him directly to me.
16:43Ilaria and Miran were therefore eliminated
16:45but you must not know
16:47what had they discovered that was so compromising?
16:49and above all who gave the order.
16:52In the last days before death
16:53their work had focused
16:55especially in Bosaso, a large port city
16:57a crucial junction for cooperation
17:00and for billion-dollar investments.
17:02Let's see with Paolo Fattori.
17:11Ilaria and Miran arrive in Bosaso
17:13the afternoon of March 14th
17:15a small, quiet port town
17:18on the Gulf of Abre.
17:19Here the horrors of war seem far away
17:21Mogadishu is far away.
17:23Ilaria heard about it
17:25of a ship seized a few weeks ago
17:27perhaps with Italian sailors on board
17:30held prisoner.
17:31If one wants to find an urgent motivation
17:37to commit this murder
17:39it is precisely that of the seizure of this ship
17:42and what could have been on this ship.
17:47The vessel in question is a large fishing vessel
17:50blocked by Bosaso militiamen
17:51because it wouldn't be in order
17:53with fishing licenses in those waters.
17:55A news that didn't come out
17:57but the Italian army
17:58he seems to be aware of it.
18:01Our army
18:02when she learned that she had been kidnapped
18:05this ship
18:05had organized an intervention
18:07of two patrol boats
18:09and two helicopters
18:10to free her.
18:11Why?
18:16The seized ship
18:17it's Farax Omar
18:19is part of a fleet
18:20of five fishing boats
18:21plus a larger mothership
18:23all built in Italy
18:25and donated by Italian cooperation
18:27to Somalia.
18:28These are large deep-sea fishing vessels
18:30who bring fresh fish
18:32on our tables.
18:33A helping hand from Italy
18:35to the Somali people
18:36It's to my friend Siad Barra
18:38bloodthirsty dictator
18:39and President of Somalia
18:41for 22 years.
18:42What he loved to say
18:43is that Somalia
18:44it was the twenty-first Italian region.
18:46To manage the fleet
18:48it's a certain Mugne
18:49graduated in engineering in Bologna
18:51a man by Siad Barra
18:53intelligent, shrewd,
18:54ambitious and determined.
18:56When everything collapses
18:57Siad Barra and flee the country
18:59it's civil war.
19:01Mugne continues however
19:02to manage the ships
19:04in fact it does more.
19:05In Italy
19:06a company is founded
19:07the Schifco
19:08and the donated ships
19:09from Italian cooperation
19:11somehow
19:12they change hands
19:12from State property Somano
19:14to a private company.
19:16In fact
19:17they pass into the hands of Mugne
19:19he takes possession of it
19:20as he tells
19:20the Sultan of Bosaso
19:22to Ilaria herself
19:23during his interview.
19:25They talk about this scandal
19:27of this Somali owner
19:30with an Italian passport
19:31which is called Mugne
19:32who would have taken these ships
19:35which were owned by the State
19:37and he would have used them
19:38for his private use.
19:40him with other people
19:44I ask her
19:44to explain to me
19:45what happened.
19:47During the collapse
19:48he was in charge
19:49of this fleet
19:50an international
19:52which is called Schifco
19:56and it was
19:58a property
19:59practically
19:59of the Seadbar
20:01and he
20:02he made them
20:03the administrator
20:07And
20:08when he came
20:09the collapse
20:10we worked
20:11the ships
20:12they brought down
20:15all crews
20:15Somalis
20:16in Tanzania
20:17And
20:18it melted
20:20with the ships
20:21in Italy.
20:23Part of this
20:23property
20:25belonged
20:26to an Italian company
20:27and the company
20:29in collection
20:30with Mugne
20:30why Mugne
20:31it was nothing
20:33and it's nothing
20:34still
20:34it's the company
20:36which is Mugne
20:37you know the name
20:38of the company?
20:40The name?
20:41And do you know him?
20:42I do not.
20:46Anyway, I find it.
20:48If you give me a hand
20:49I find it better.
20:50He needs to do research
20:52must do
20:52must
20:53you have to enjoy yourself
20:54the bread
20:57he doesn't want to give it to me
20:58a hand?
20:59I cannot.
21:01You know these companies
21:04they have
21:04they have
21:05anywhere
21:08they have
21:09some lackeys
21:10Do your job
21:12he tells her
21:12there are too many lackeys
21:13Ilaria
21:15while he was working
21:16he always wrote
21:17and everything was written down
21:18some of his notebooks
21:20of that last journey
21:21they disappeared
21:22the remaining notes
21:24Pope George
21:25he reads them
21:25and rereads them
21:26Seizure of ships
21:28why this case
21:30is it special?
21:32Sifco
21:33company of six
21:34navigation
21:35cooperation
21:36more government
21:37summolus
21:37six ships
21:38four
21:39have been delivered
21:40the port of Bosaso
21:41it is the economic center
21:42and financial
21:43of the whole region
21:44to the northeast
21:45of Somalia
21:46I'm the peach
21:47the taxes
21:48port workers
21:49and the major ones
21:49intros
21:50of the city
21:50but really
21:51on these
21:52in recent months
21:53it broke out
21:54a kind
21:54of piracy
21:55justified
21:56at the start
21:56how to fight
21:57to fishing
21:58illegally
21:58Then
22:00Sultan
22:01Bogor
22:02Abdullah
22:04Mussa
22:05Faromar
22:06Viareggio
22:07150 militiamen
22:10at the port
22:11fishing
22:13Bosaso road
22:14Garoe
22:15Cholera
22:15Mughe
22:20But what do they discover?
22:22or are about to find out
22:23the two journalists
22:24in Bosaso
22:25what it carries
22:26the ship
22:27of Cifco
22:27seized
22:28from the militiamen
22:29from Bosaso
22:30weapons in place
22:31of the fish
22:31Perhaps
22:32toxic waste
22:33there are informational documents
22:35of our services
22:36secrets
22:37which would indicate
22:38the Mughe
22:39as a trafficker
22:40of weapons
22:40but all the alleged
22:42accusations
22:42addressed to him
22:43they have always fallen
22:44into nothingness
22:45Ilaria insists
22:46and asks the sultan
22:48to be able to climb
22:49on the seized ship
22:50here's how he answers her
22:52because there is some relative
22:53of copaggio
22:56yes I have some relatives
22:58of copaggio
22:59a tuve
23:00a hawk
23:01a guinea fowl
23:02a hawk
23:08we keep it there
23:09on the ship
23:11because in the territory
23:13it's haunted
23:14of cholera
23:15how do I know
23:17and where is the ship
23:19we can't see it
23:20as you can see
23:22why she comes
23:23from the earthquake
23:24because he has to see
23:25get information
23:26and that's it
23:26if I don't see
23:27I do not believe
23:28if I don't see
23:29I do not believe
23:30you use the satellite
23:36one of the ships
23:37which should bring
23:38fish in Italy
23:39he goes on trips
23:40much longer
23:41moves to Iran
23:42moors in many ports
23:44of Europe
23:44reaches as far as Dublin
23:46How come?
23:47sells somolo fish
23:49to the Irish
23:50because the ship
23:51of Schiffko
23:52it touches everyone
23:53those European ports
23:54what does it download?
23:55or
23:56what does it load?
23:57then the voices
23:59that were circulating
24:00of traffic
24:02of radioactive material
24:04to be buried
24:06they could be
24:08credible
24:09it is possible that the ship
24:11of Schiffko
24:12was transporting radioactive material
24:14to be brought to Somalia
24:16but let's continue
24:18while we watch
24:19and we look at
24:20the material
24:21in chronological order
24:22filmed by Miran
24:23in those days
24:23in Bosaso
24:24something hits us
24:26the first days
24:27the two journalists
24:28they film generic images
24:30of the places
24:30and they do interviews
24:31which concern
24:32the conditions
24:33of the Somalis
24:33in that region
24:34and alarming ones
24:35cases of cholera
24:36they go to a hospital
24:38they go to the port
24:39to listen to a doctor
24:40cases of cholera
24:41when they started
24:43then something changes
24:45after the interview
24:45with the sultan
24:47the next day
24:49Ilaria and Miran
24:50they are heading
24:51along the road
24:52which connects Garoe
24:53with Bosaso
24:54a brand new road
24:55always built
24:56with the billions
24:57of Italian cooperation
24:58a cathedral
24:59in the desert
25:00as it was later defined
25:02in parliamentary commission
25:03they are different shots
25:05more targeted
25:06asphalt details
25:08small streams
25:09expanses of land
25:10apparently useless
25:16they also return to the port
25:18from Bosaso
25:18here too
25:19many details
25:21metal drums
25:22anonymous
25:23that are taken away
25:24various merchandise
25:25almost all of it
25:26of Italian origin
25:27they film
25:28the holds
25:28of the moored boats
25:30and ask questions
25:31specifications
25:32on the kidnapping
25:32of the ship
25:33Sifco
25:33it would have been
25:34very embarrassing
25:36if she had gone out
25:37the news
25:37that there was
25:38an Italian ship
25:40full of weapons
25:41or full of rubbish
25:43highly radioactive
25:45that they should have
25:46then be
25:48buried
25:49in Somalia
25:50it would have been one thing
25:51very embarrassing
25:52why do they come here
25:53like Restorop
25:54to import
25:56hope
25:57with what?
25:58with radioactive waste?
26:00with weapons
26:01what are they selling?
26:02it was unacceptable
26:04that it happened
26:04such a fact
26:05and if the price
26:07era
26:08kill
26:09two journalists
26:13even in the interview
26:15with the sultan
26:15there's something strange
26:17it is possible that the sultan
26:19stories to Ilaria
26:20something more
26:20and that the interview
26:22it was censored
26:23from an expert hand
26:24Ilaria
26:26like all journalists
26:27television
26:27it always starts
26:28to ask questions
26:29only after the beginning
26:30of the registration
26:31and the operator
26:32unplug the recording
26:34always after
26:34a final thank you
26:36at a sign
26:36of the interviewer
26:37who says it's over
26:39Ilaria
26:40he always does this
26:41in all its
26:41official interviews
26:43and Miran too
26:44is no exception
26:45now we see it
26:46when they interview
26:48the doctor at the port
26:49Ilaria asks Miran
26:50if it's ready
26:51and asks the doctor
26:52his name
26:53in technical jargon
26:54they are called
26:55off-air
27:05and let's see now
27:07when Ilaria
27:08the interview ends
27:09with the village chief
27:10Ilaria thanks
27:12and he answers
27:13Please
27:14he doesn't have many things
27:17Here you are
27:17Thank you
27:18Please
27:20nevertheless
27:21when they interview
27:22the Sultan of Bosaso
27:23there is no initial presentation
27:25nor even a thank you
27:27or final greeting
27:28On the contrary
27:29the interview starts suddenly
27:30with a small and strange slip
27:32of the tape
27:33look
27:47and then it ends suddenly
27:49on a close-up
27:50very narrow of the sultan
27:52and without the slightest hint
27:53of greeting or thanks
27:55it's the fara Omar
27:58also brings
27:59the name
28:00of one of our heroes
28:04the nationalist
28:05No
28:07Why?
28:08did you see?
28:10the sultan
28:11he finishes speaking
28:12of the seized ship
28:13to Fara Omar
28:14then suddenly it changes
28:16to an external image
28:17of a village
28:18without any thanks
28:20or final greeting
28:21to the sultan
28:21but let's review
28:23the nationalist
28:24No
28:27Why?
28:28Why?
28:29Why?
28:30Why?
28:32why this initial delay?
28:34it was just a technical problem
28:36or someone
28:37he deleted
28:37some passages
28:38of the interview
28:40let's review now
28:41the images
28:41directly
28:42from the site
28:43of the room
28:43of the deputies
28:44the official ones
28:46it is possible that
28:47the most important interview
28:49the one with the sultan
28:49from Bosaso
28:50the most important man
28:51it ends that way
28:53without even
28:54a final thank you
28:57Why?
28:58Nobody
28:58has ever done
28:59a technical report
29:00on this material
29:01but there's something else
29:02unsettling
29:03the Sultan of Bosaso
29:05when it is heard
29:06from the parliamentary commission
29:07he says that the interview
29:09with Ilaria
29:09it lasted a long time
29:10many hours
29:11he even speaks
29:12two or three hours
29:13and that Miran
29:15every now and again
29:15he asked for a stop
29:16to change the cassette
29:18the interview
29:19the interview arrived in Italy
29:20It lasts about 20 minutes
29:22what happened to him
29:23the rest of the recording
29:25nationalist
29:26No
29:28OK
29:30but cooperation
29:32arms trafficking
29:33and toxic waste
29:33these are all disturbing scenarios
29:35Ilaria's parents
29:36George
29:37and Luciana
29:38they fight strenuously
29:39to seek the truth
29:40and to appease them
29:41is found
29:42a guilty person
29:43not the culprit
29:44but a guilty one
29:45is chosen
29:46a young man
29:47Ashi Omar Hassan
29:48a boy
29:49which he had given
29:49your availability
29:51to testify
29:51against some Italian soldiers
29:53that they would have tortured
29:54of Somali citizens
29:55let's see with Chiara Cazzaniga
29:59Mr. Ashi Omar Hassan
30:01he comes
30:03stopped
30:04then arrested
30:05in one
30:06situation
30:08transparent
30:09Mr. President
30:10And
30:12his position
30:14was
30:15several times
30:16sifted
30:17from the organs
30:18of the guarantee
30:18to the public
30:19ministry
30:20Franco Ionta
30:20at the end
30:21of the process
30:21first degree
30:22against Ashi
30:23sole defendant
30:24for the murders
30:24by Ilaria
30:25and Mira
30:25Mr.
30:26Ashi Omar Hassan
30:27he is stopped
30:28and then arrested
30:29in a situation
30:29transparent
30:30be given to him
30:32the penalty
30:33of life imprisonment
30:33with the penalties
30:34accessories
30:35but who is Ashi Omar Hassan
30:36how do you get to him
30:39three years have passed
30:40from death
30:40by Ilaria and Mira
30:41when the weekly
30:42Panorama
30:42post photos
30:43shocking
30:44torture of our soldiers
30:46towards
30:47of Somali citizens
30:48a scandal breaks out
30:49is established
30:50a commission
30:50of investigation
30:51at the head of the delegation
30:53diplomatic
30:54sent to Somalia
30:54there is the ambassador
30:55Joseph Cassini
30:56you need to check
30:58the reported violence
30:59from Panorama
30:59and we still need to understand
31:00who killed
31:01Ilaria and Mira
31:02among the victims
31:04of these acts of violence
31:05there is also a young man
31:06who is called Ashi
31:07his story
31:08at the start
31:09is discarded
31:09but then
31:10someone decides
31:11to get it going
31:12for Italy
31:13she had no voice
31:15in chapter
31:15about this thing?
31:16No
31:16I
31:17I had to
31:18I couldn't
31:19I hadn't seen
31:20what had happened
31:22at the time
31:22of torture
31:25I didn't have
31:26no chance
31:28Of
31:29choose
31:30who decides
31:32to put back
31:32Ashi's name
31:33in the list?
31:34look
31:35this is the arrival
31:36of the Somalia group
31:37in Fiumicino
31:37you can see
31:38the ambassador
31:38Cassini
31:39the boys
31:40who report
31:40the abuses
31:41and then there's Abdi
31:42the driver
31:42by Ilaria and Mira
31:43which obviously
31:44he did not suffer
31:44violence
31:45How come
31:46it comes anyway
31:46brought to Italy
31:47with the group
31:48which reports
31:48the tortures?
31:49he knows something
31:50of the murder
31:51of Ilaria and Mira?
31:51Mr. Abdi
31:52she has already been
31:53in Italy
31:53and he named the names
31:55of the assassins
31:55of the Arialpi
31:56no I wouldn't know
31:57what I knew
31:58I already said
31:59he made these names
32:00she can recognize
32:00these people?
32:01which?
32:02the assassins
32:02of the Arialpi
32:04none of them
32:05can
32:06I didn't see
32:08because I was
32:09to defend
32:10life
32:12Understood?
32:14that boy
32:14next to Abdi
32:15who is listening to him
32:16intrigued
32:16It's Ashi
32:17you see him calm
32:19he doesn't make a face
32:20he doesn't run away
32:21and think
32:22that 24 hours later
32:23Abdi
32:23will say that Ashi
32:24he is the murderer
32:25by Ilaria and Mira
32:26isn't it perhaps?
32:27aware
32:28to have him there next to you
32:33Like this
32:33in the round
32:3424 hours
32:35Ashi
32:36as a victim
32:36of torture
32:37become an executioner
32:38and it comes right away
32:39arrested
32:39why nail him
32:41there is another one
32:41testimony
32:42only the testimony
32:44the witness
32:45disappears
32:49he is
32:49Ahmad Ali Raj
32:50but everyone
32:51they call it
32:52Gelle
32:52he is the super witness
32:53of the murder
32:54by Ilaria and Mira
32:55to find it
32:56and to bring it
32:56in Italy
32:57once again
32:58it's Ambassador Cassini
32:59Joseph Cassini
33:01in Somalia
33:02it is supported by this
33:03Ahmed Mohamed Mahamud
33:04also known
33:05like Ahmed Washington
33:06very respectable man
33:08according to Cassini
33:09then boss
33:10of the European delegation
33:12in Somalia
33:12but who is it?
33:13official confirmation
33:14in the European service
33:15for external action
33:16from an initial research
33:17his name
33:18it won't turn out well
33:19the archives
33:20but it's him
33:22Ahmed Washington
33:23to find
33:23the super witness
33:24Gelle
33:26in Rome
33:27Gelle
33:27is heard
33:28first from men
33:29of Dicos
33:30then from the PM
33:31Franco Iotta
33:32he says that he
33:33he was there
33:33when they shot
33:34to journalists
33:35he saw everything
33:36explains that Ilaria
33:37she was sitting
33:37on the front seat
33:39and Miran
33:39on the back one
33:40it was enough to see
33:42the images
33:42these images
33:43to discover
33:44which was exactly
33:45the opposite
33:46then the investigators
33:47they show him
33:48this photo
33:48taken immediately
33:49after the ambush
33:50he says
33:51Here I am
33:51you see
33:52I was there
33:52too bad it's not him
33:54but a gentleman
33:54what is called
33:55Osobo
33:55and in the end
33:56Gelle
33:57he names the name
33:58of one of the bandits
33:59just the name
34:00Asci
34:00and then disappears
34:01he leaves Rome
34:03a few days before
34:04that Asci arrives in the city
34:05the two
34:06they will never meet
34:07why Gelle
34:08in court
34:08he gets to say
34:09that defamatory accusation
34:10he doesn't go there
34:11disappears into thin air
34:13and yet the agents
34:14who deal with
34:15by Gelle
34:16they note down minutely
34:17day by day
34:18all his movements
34:20they give him money
34:21for first needs
34:22they take him shopping
34:23or to have a coffee
34:24they even find them
34:26a job
34:26to keep him from getting bored
34:28it is possible that it will succeed
34:29to escape so easily?
34:32in the first degree
34:33Asci is acquitted
34:34judgment overturned
34:35in the second degree
34:36and confirmed by the Supreme Court
34:37the boy
34:38arrived in Italy
34:39as a victim
34:40he is sentenced
34:41to 26 years in prison
34:42for a crime
34:43never committed
34:46and everyone
34:46they forget
34:47of him
34:48of the Somali boy
34:49locked in a prison
34:50maximum security
34:51for 10 years
34:52in daytime isolation
34:53until
34:54we of those who saw it
34:55let's decide
34:56to go and look for him
34:57Gelle
34:58and after a year
34:59thanks to the Somali community
35:01we find it
35:01lives in England
35:03drives buses
35:03and he has a great desire
35:04to speak
35:05March 20th
35:061994
35:07she is killed
35:08the Alpine air
35:09where was she?
35:10that day?
35:11I was at the American embassy
35:13near Medina Hospital
35:15she saw
35:17the attack?
35:19I got there
35:21after she was killed
35:22after the attack
35:23she is not a witness
35:25of the attack
35:26Therefore?
35:27with my own eyes
35:28I didn't see anything
35:29she said
35:30a lie?
35:31Yes
35:33Here you are
35:34to us
35:34Gelle
35:35he says he said
35:36just lies
35:37he wasn't there
35:38when they killed
35:39Ilaria
35:39and Miran
35:40he didn't see anything
35:41he couldn't have seen anything
35:42a false testimony
35:44his
35:44with the name of Ashi
35:46facts in exchange for money
35:47why Italians
35:48tells us
35:49they were in a hurry
35:50to close the matter
35:51in prison
35:52there is an innocent
35:55I said
35:56a lie
35:56that could pass
35:57in truth
35:58that is to say
35:59I said
36:00that I was there present
36:01when in reality
36:01I have never been
36:03present there
36:04and so
36:05it got mounted
36:05a story
36:06and it was said
36:07that Ilaria
36:07she was dead
36:08for a robbery
36:08after our interview
36:10Ashi's lawyers
36:11they were able to ask
36:12the review of the process
36:13October 19, 2016
36:15after 17 years
36:175 months
36:18and 8 days
36:19in prison
36:19the court of Perugia
36:20absolves
36:21Ashi Omar Hassan
36:22for not having committed
36:23the fact
36:25it ends like this
36:27a shameful page
36:28for Italian justice
36:29it was a red herring
36:32to put it down in black and white
36:33I am really
36:34the judges of Perugia
36:35for the court
36:37Gell was searched
36:38to implement
36:38a red herring
36:39Gell has misled
36:40and then
36:41he was allowed
36:42to disappear
36:43so much so that no one
36:44he then looked for it
36:45always for the court
36:47these conducts
36:48they generate confusion
36:49Gell was a key witness
36:50constantly under control
36:52and despite this
36:53out of the blue
36:54he had disappeared
36:55apparently
36:56without leaving a trace
36:57evading surveillance
36:58and without them appearing
37:00have been carried out
37:01targeted searches
37:02to try to track him down
37:03research that profitably
37:05have been carried out
37:06years later
37:06without even a particular
37:08difficulty
37:09not by the police force
37:10but as journalists
37:11of the RAI
37:12here in fact
37:14I thank the magistrates
37:16of the court of appeal
37:17from Perugia
37:17for giving me back
37:20hope
37:21after 23 years
37:23of lies
37:24and of red herrings
37:25that the Rome prosecutor's office
37:27he has us
37:29and he gave me
37:30I say CA
37:32because my husband
37:33there is no more
37:34who managed
37:35Gelle
37:36who was supposed to supervise him
37:37who allowed it
37:38that he ran away
37:39or maybe
37:40it was even
37:41helped in this escape
37:42who took part
37:43to this diversion
37:47that Asci was innocent
37:48he hypothesizes it
37:49from the very first moment
37:50the Assi prosecutor's office
37:51who is investigating
37:52on heavy traffic
37:53of toxic waste
37:54between Italy
37:55and Somalia
37:56and investigating
37:56intercept
37:57an entrepreneur
37:58who often has contacts
37:59with Giancarlo Marocchino
38:00the first
38:00who helped
38:02Ilaria and Miran
38:03well
38:03from phone calls
38:04it emerges that
38:05Asci Omar Hassan
38:06with the murder
38:07it has nothing to do with it
38:08and Assi what does
38:09send
38:10of the documents
38:11strictly confidential
38:12to colleagues
38:13of the Rome prosecutor's office
38:13that are
38:14investigating the murder
38:16and here
38:16what happens
38:17a fact
38:18who really has
38:18of the incredible
38:20January 13th
38:22of 98
38:23following
38:24of an investigation
38:24more complex
38:25he was commissioned
38:26from the prosecutor's office
38:27of the Republic
38:28of Assi
38:28in particular
38:30by Dr. Luciano
38:31Tarditi
38:31to deliver
38:32a confidential package
38:33to bring
38:35of the documents
38:36judicial
38:37to the prosecutor's office
38:37of the Republic
38:38of Rome
38:39and in particular
38:41to the secretary
38:41of the doctor
38:42Ionta
38:44Gianni De Podestà
38:45he is retired today
38:46speaks for the first time
38:47of those years
38:48between 1997
38:49and 1998
38:51when as an officer
38:52of Judicial Police
38:53he was investigating
38:54for the then
38:55deputy prosecutor
38:56from Asti
38:56Luciano Tarditi
38:57on traffic
38:58international
38:59of waste
38:59between Italy
39:00and Somalia
39:00we reach it
39:02via Skype
39:02the limitations
39:03to travel
39:03these days
39:04they impose it
39:05and tells
39:06in particular
39:06of that January 13th
39:08of 1998
39:09he is entrusted with
39:11a package
39:11Reserved
39:12to be delivered
39:13in Rome
39:13to the public
39:14ministry
39:14Franco Ionta
39:15who is investigating
39:16on the murder
39:17by Ilaria
39:17and Miran
39:18within
39:19these interceptions
39:20how do you do it
39:21of the investigations
39:22at 15,000 kilometers
39:24has ever existed
39:25a country
39:26where they do investigations
39:27at 15,000 kilometers
39:28it's clear
39:29Claudio
39:30Excuse me
39:30come then
39:32on site
39:32you see things
39:33see the interested parties
39:35there are some things
39:37there is let's say
39:38it's ocular
39:40there are witnesses
39:42really ocular
39:43like the driver
39:44the one who shot
39:45continue on
39:47to speak
39:48it's Giancarlo Marocchino
39:49the Italian businessman
39:51who lives in Mogadishu
39:52that everyone knows
39:53who knew Ilaria
39:54who was on site
39:55immediately after the attack
39:56he's on the phone
39:57with Claudio Roghi
39:58Tuscan entrepreneur
39:59it's his
40:00the number under control
40:01by the Asti prosecutor's office
40:02at that moment
40:03he is under investigation
40:04but in the end
40:04he will be acquitted
40:05from all charges
40:06Moroccan
40:07talks about death
40:08by Miran
40:08and Ilaria
40:09explains that the investigations
40:10they cannot be done from Italy
40:11that you have to go there
40:13in Mogadishu
40:13because there is an eyewitness
40:15someone
40:16who saw everything
40:17and then
40:17he knows who was there
40:18there are witnesses
40:20really ocular
40:21like the driver
40:22the one who shot
40:24continue on
40:26the Asti prosecutor's office
40:27intercept these words
40:29December 20, 1997
40:31he makes them happen again in Rome
40:32to the public prosecutor Ionta
40:34the following January 13th
40:35and he does it because
40:36the day before
40:37January 12, 1998
40:39for the murder
40:41of the two journalists
40:41he is stopped
40:42a Somali
40:43Ashi Omar Hassan
40:44brought to Italy
40:45a few days before
40:47together with a group
40:47of compatriots
40:48we see it here
40:49gray checked shirt
40:51high
40:51next to the driver
40:52by Ilaria
40:53when Ashi Omar Hassan
40:55he is stopped
40:56the deputy prosecutor
40:57by Asti Tarditi
40:58he understands he has in his hands
40:59a dialogue
41:00which can be crucial
41:01for those in Rome
41:02he is taking care of
41:03of those investigations
41:04why in Mogadishu
41:06there would be
41:06who can confirm
41:07or deny
41:08who killed
41:09Ilaria and Miran
41:10what did you expect?
41:11what he did with it
41:12the Rome prosecutor's office
41:15I think that
41:16the magistrates
41:18from Asti
41:19had
41:20let's say
41:21full awareness
41:22that Rome
41:23he did it
41:24good use
41:25And
41:25he drew from it
41:27let's say
41:27all the benefits
41:28For
41:29Do
41:29their activities
41:31investigative
41:32judicial
41:33reported
41:34let's say
41:34to the investigation
41:35that they were carrying on
41:36at that moment
41:37and instead something completely different happens
41:4017 days later
41:42have sent
41:42wiretaps in Rome
41:43Asti
41:44record a dialogue
41:45between Claudio Roghi
41:46and the defense attorney
41:47by Moroccan
41:48Stefano Menicacci
41:49the latter
41:50warn Roghi
41:51that his phone
41:52is intercepted
41:53it was sent
41:54a circular
41:55a letter
41:56to the prosecutor
41:57that investigates
41:58on death
41:59by Ilaria Alpi
42:00where it says
42:01we put
42:02under control
42:03a user
42:03of a person under investigation
42:05I think it's her
42:07but this
42:08you deduce it today
42:09this however
42:10it was the prosecutor's office
42:11from Asti
42:12Yes
42:12from Asti
42:13from whoever knew it
42:15Lawyer Menicacci
42:17who informs him
42:18to notify Roghi
42:18if in the documents
42:19sent from Asti
42:20in Rome
42:20this name doesn't exist
42:21how to read
42:22in a document
42:23of the prosecution
42:24was omitted
42:25why exactly
42:25for privacy
42:27of the documents
42:28and why in the sense
42:29which could have been
42:30reason
42:31let's say
42:31of the document
42:32come into hand
42:33to any
42:34let's say
42:34office
42:35but the names
42:37surnames
42:37of the subjects
42:38that they were
42:39at that moment
42:39investigated
42:40they were
42:41sayings
42:42let's say
42:45directly
42:45in conversation
42:46among the prosecutors
42:47so there were no
42:48the cards
42:49but the PM
42:49Dionta knew it
42:50absolutely
42:51Yes
42:51What do you think?
42:53who was it
42:53how did it happen
42:55what was said
42:56between the corridors
42:57let's put it this way
42:57between the corridors
42:58of the Asti prosecutor's office
42:59it's a bit
43:00impossible
43:02say
43:03was
43:03Tizio
43:03rather
43:04that Caius
43:04Certainly
43:05in the sense
43:05more complex
43:06he says until
43:07the activities
43:09wiretaps
43:10and the activities
43:11investigative
43:13they remained
43:14in that building
43:15of justice
43:16let's say
43:16from Asti
43:17things
43:19they worked
43:20Well
43:21even below
43:21the appearance
43:22let's say
43:22investigative
43:23judicial
43:24when we say
43:25they came out
43:26from that square
43:28and they went
43:28let's say
43:29in the square
43:29most important
43:30these things
43:32they came
43:32less
43:33the leaks
43:34in his experience
43:35working
43:36they concerned
43:37only this case
43:38but
43:40Like this
43:40obvious
43:42I would say yes
43:44the fact is
43:45that the entrepreneur
43:46warned to be
43:47intercepted
43:48he doesn't speak anymore
43:49and Ionta
43:49the public prosecutor
43:50of Rome
43:51what will he say
43:51the parliamentary commission
43:52of investigation
43:53on this topic
43:54in the meantime let's start
43:55by saying
43:55she of this
43:56interception
43:57he has no memory
43:58and shortly after
43:59Still
44:00No
44:00No
44:01it's not that I have
44:03a memory
44:03so photographic
44:05today at a distance
44:05six years old
44:07of this note
44:08content
44:10No
44:10I would tell her something stupid
44:12if I said
44:13that I remember
44:14No
44:14I don't remember it
44:15Ionta
44:16he won't remember
44:17not even two more
44:18wiretaps
44:19received later
44:20always from the prosecutor's office
44:21from Asti
44:21in which Claudio Roghi
44:23that he still doesn't know
44:23of being intercepted
44:25Moroccan information
44:26of the arrest
44:26by Omar Hassan
44:28and you feel
44:29how is it there
44:30that bullshit there
44:31eh nothing
44:32they arrested
44:34a somolo
44:34of those
44:35who sent
44:35Nothing
44:36it has nothing to do with it
44:37that one there
44:39twice
44:40Giancarlo Marocchino
44:41intercepted
44:42he will say that
44:42Asci Omar Hassan
44:43with the murder
44:44by Larry Emira
44:45it has nothing to do with it
44:46but the investigations
44:47of the Rome prosecutor's office
44:47they will continue
44:48on the road
44:49which will bring
44:49Asci
44:50in prison
44:50for 17 years
44:52before being
44:53recognized
44:53innocent
44:54meanwhile
44:55Asti
44:55will continue
44:56the survey
44:56remained
44:57lame
44:58on opinion
44:58Therefore
44:59this escape
44:59of news
44:59how much it has influenced
45:00I would say
45:01let's say
45:04Very
45:05Why
45:05it is not readable
45:07the future
45:08but the forecasts
45:09they were
45:10to be able to arrive
45:11to stop
45:14Truly
45:14what
45:15let's say
45:15era
45:16a serious one
45:17traffic
45:17of waste
45:18towards
45:20those horizons
45:21there
45:22of Somalia
45:24In short
45:24and rebuild
45:25more than anything else
45:26events
45:27of the end
45:29of the years
45:2980
45:30or first
45:31of the years
45:3290
45:32when then
45:33let's say
45:34they were intertwined
45:35with the activities
45:36of investigation
45:37journalism
45:38that were
45:39doing
45:39at the time
45:40Ilaria Alpi
45:42with his operator
45:43it's more the bitterness
45:44professional
45:44or personal?
45:45I don't regret it
45:46above all
45:47let's say
45:47at a professional level
45:48because it is given
45:49100%
45:50on a personal level
45:51let's say
45:52I remember them
45:53in particular
45:55under this thread
45:56investigative
45:57that I have been
45:57also heard
45:58from the commission
46:00of investigation
46:00Rovatin Alps
46:02from the president
46:03of the lawyer
46:04Carlo Taormina
46:05I went out
46:06from Palazzo San Macuto
46:08as if it were me
46:09let's say
46:10the suspect
46:11and not the detective
46:13In short
46:14throughout this whole story
46:16there is a woman
46:16of extraordinary strength
46:17tenacity
46:18capability
46:18Mariangela Gritta Greiner
46:20he did everything
46:21in Parliament
46:22because the case
46:22not be archived
46:23he followed step by step
46:25Ilaria's parents
46:25in the search for truth
46:27until they died
46:28but she
46:28keep fighting
46:30listen to her
46:31he did a great job
46:33together with two exceptional people
46:34George
46:35and Luciano
46:35how it was
46:36write this book
46:38and relive with them
46:40and redo this journey
46:42with them
46:42the book was
46:43even a little bit
46:44how to say
46:45a liberation
46:46allow me to use
46:48this word
46:48for them
46:49why did they express
46:51it's understood
46:52all the pain
46:53that they have accumulated
46:55and that they have transformed
46:57in a huge civil commitment
46:58and then we saw each other
46:59you're at their house
47:01and it was three in the morning
47:02we did six months
47:04but that book
47:06among other things
47:07then you can say
47:07which is still fundamental
47:10I used it
47:11even now
47:11to return
47:12Why
47:13there is not a word there
47:15that is not documented
47:17we did this work
47:18extraordinary
47:19what they did
47:19predominantly
47:20Why
47:21the first few months
47:22they collected everything
47:24and I had the privilege
47:26Of
47:27In short
47:27to have
47:29intertwined with them
47:30a relationship
47:31of friendship
47:32and affection
47:33truly extraordinary
47:34what a memory it brings
47:35from a human point of view
47:36in the relationship with them
47:42a great example
47:44Surely
47:45a great example
47:46an incredible strength
47:47Also
47:48we will miss them
47:49everything will be more difficult
47:50Now
47:52but they have sown a lot
47:53very, very much
47:54very, very much
47:55and they deserve it
47:57that we
47:58let's carry on
47:58this battle
47:59and we'll conclude it
48:00We will know in a few days
48:02if there are any
48:03investigative news
48:04or if the Rome prosecutor's office
48:05will opt for silence
48:06and then he will ask
48:07again
48:08yet another filing
48:09us for sure
48:10to silence
48:11we will oppose
48:12as we have always opposed
48:13and we will continue
48:14to do it naturally
48:15together with you
48:15before saying goodbye
48:17I remind you
48:17the appointment
48:18with Federica Sciarelli
48:19which returns in prime time
48:21starting from Thursday
48:21March 26
48:22to everyone
48:23Thank you for following us
48:24and a goodnight
48:25thank you all
48:25thank you all
48:26thank you all