Ian Huntley ‘TROLLING By Wearing Manchester United Top In Prison’ Before Attack

2 days ago

Ian Huntley ‘TROLLING By Wearing Manchester United Top In Prison’ Before Attack

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00:00Because the front page of The Sun on Sunday, headline, Huntley dead, flushes ashes down the toilet, says his daughter,

00:08Samantha Bryan, who said that it's a huge relief that the Soham double murderer has died following a jail attack.

00:18Charlie, do we bring back the hangman?

00:22I don't think we do. And I know people will be divided on it because there are people that commit

00:27such heinous crimes.

00:31It is unforgivable. And therefore, you know, if you take someone's life, I understand why people will think, well, you

00:37know, then you do life in what it means.

00:40Your life should come to an end as well.

00:44The reason why I'm against it is I just think, A, the practicalities, I mean, who is actually going to

00:52do it?

00:56I think that I've got plenty of viewers and listeners. A bit like, you know, jury service.

01:02The very key, eager beavers.

01:04So you get a letter and it says you need to take a week off work to execute a few

01:10paedophiles and murderers.

01:11And I think there'd be a queue the length of Oxford Street.

01:15I'm sure there would. But, you know, obviously the actual administering of however you would do it, I think needs

01:22a little bit more thought.

01:23I mean, I think it's probably, I had Mike Neville, retired chief constable on the show yesterday, and he would

01:31bring back hanging.

01:32He'd actually have the noose because he said, you know, it shouldn't be, you know, he thinks a lethal injection

01:37is almost too humane.

01:39And, you know, people then start the debate about how do you sort of, you know, end that criminal's life

01:45if we get to that.

01:46But I just generally, we haven't had it for a good while.

01:51So I'm not entirely sure.

01:53I know people say that they would do it, and I'm sure there would be people that would do it.

01:57But actually, you know, it would require a bit of training.

01:59Well, I mean, they would be state employees, wouldn't they?

02:03Well, yes.

02:03Now, when you say training, I think a simple YouTube video, which I could present because I'm actually quite big

02:12on YouTube now.

02:13So I'll do it. I'll do it as an explanation.

02:15I'll go, well, good morning, everyone. Welcome to the execution hour.

02:19And this is Ian Huntley, who's killed two little girls, and so we're going to kill him today.

02:23And here's how we're going to do it.

02:24The bottom line is that, you know, it is, I think, complex.

02:28And I really agree with that texter that on the one hand, the cost of accommodating these disgusting human beings

02:35is an insult.

02:36The idea that it's going to be possibly upwards of £50,000, £60,000 a year, double the normal inmate

02:44given their crimes.

02:46They need more, unfortunately, resources, more protection.

02:49So it's a lot of money in their lifetime.

02:51It's not great for the victims to know that there's a small chance that they may eventually leave jail.

02:57That was certainly the concern of his daughter, who was worried that maybe eventually he would come out.

03:02And then you've just got the fact that, let's say, those two little girls, Holly and Jessica, they lost their

03:09lives.

03:10He keeps his.

03:11So that's the argument.

03:12For it, there is a flip side, which is, is it a let off?

03:16Well, the question I would ask is, is it a life?

03:19You know, prison should not be easy.

03:21And I do think, actually, prisoners do get far too easy.

03:24So I would definitely toughen up the prison system and make sure that, actually, these kinds of criminals are not

03:29given free reign.

03:30How was he going around with a Manchester United top in prison?

03:34How was that possible, given the fact that the girls were so notable for their Manchester United strips?

03:39Exactly.

03:40And what's he doing when he wears that top?

03:42Well, if that's the case, that's abhorrent.

03:44I mean, that is.

03:44He's trolling his victims.

03:45He's trolling.

03:46Totally, totally.

03:47That is no way acceptable.

03:48And if that is the case, then that absolutely needs to be looked into.

03:51And whoever has allowed that, the governor or whether it's people.

03:55And I know that, you know, prison staff are, you know, it's underfunded.

03:58There are issues there.

03:59We've heard however many prison escapees at the back end of last year, particularly Wandsworth.

04:03I know they are sort of the lower category prison.

04:05But still, the prison service clearly needs a bit more work and attention.

04:08But I think, you know, you shouldn't have a life in prison.

04:11You know, it is a punishment.

04:13And I think it should be punishable.

04:15And I just think it is, on the one hand, a bit of an easy way out if you just

04:18take, you know, if you just end somebody's life.

04:20But the other thing also is that, and I know people will say, well, hold on, some cases are clear

04:24cut, some are not.

04:25And in this case, it's obviously incredibly clear cut.

04:27But the justice system currently has made it clear.

04:30And it's clear to me, and again, this will divide people, you know, the biggest killer, child killer in this

04:36country currently is Lucy Letby, who is behind Vance.

04:39And there are some leading politicians who think it could be the biggest miscarriage of justice in the history of

04:44this country.

04:44Exactly. And so, you know, under this discussion, there is no way that she would avoid the death penalty because

04:52of the conviction that she's had against her and the number of victims and children and babies that have been

04:57killed or have died, as the conviction stands, on her watch, on her hands.

05:04Now, people are trying to overturn that.

05:06Now, I don't know what's right or what's wrong.

05:08I mean, my view is that the justice system has worked perfectly well.

05:12And she's guilty.

05:13That is what the law says.

05:14That's what the courts have determined.

05:16Now, if that changes, that changes.

05:18But currently, that is the case.

05:21If it is the case that it turns out to be, you know, other evidence comes forward or it turns

05:27out that it needs to be reviewed and she's no longer with us, well, then that could be a huge

05:32miscarriage of justice.

05:33Yeah.

05:33Do you know what I think personally?

05:34I think you'd be a great asset in prison.

05:37I really, don't you think Charlie Rowley would be, you know, he'd be one of those inmates, he'd be teaching

05:42everyone to read.

05:43It would be like the Shawshank Redemption.

05:45He'd be helping them with their tax returns.

05:48Because you'd be in, you'd be in for a white collar crime, you know what I mean?

05:51Fiddling your expenses here at talk.

05:53Yeah.

05:54Pretending that full English was tax deductible.

05:58Listen, folks, so much more to come.

05:59Charlie's sticking around.

06:00I've got a top cop on the show next.

06:02Don't go anywhere.

06:02Former commander of specialist operations at New Scotland Yard, Roy Ramm.

06:07Good morning, Roy.

06:08Good morning, Mark.

06:09Nice to be here.

06:10Well, it's great to see you on the show and I wish we had you under happier circumstances, which in

06:14the future, no doubt we will.

06:16But today we're going to reflect on the legacy of this man's death in prison.

06:21First of all, what do you make of that attack which ultimately killed him?

06:26Well, it's, you know, the HMP Franklin, where he was incarcerated, is an extraordinary place.

06:34They're some of the worst people, the most killers and rapists that have ever walked to this earth.

06:42And it must be incredibly difficult to keep any kind of order there.

06:46I mean, the man that killed him, you know, Anthony Russell, was absolutely no avenging angel.

06:52This is a man who's killed, raped himself.

06:55And it's just awful.

06:58But, you know, what do you do?

07:00Unless you've got capital punishment, you have to house these people someplace.

07:04And Franklin must be like hell on earth.

07:08Indeed. And whilst we detest this lowlife, who's now no longer with us, people shouldn't be killed in prison, should

07:18they, Roy?

07:18No, no, no, they shouldn't.

07:20You know, while we decide to incarcerate people and keep them there, frankly, you know, I kind of support that.

07:26I think let him live with the horror of his actions every day of his miserable life.

07:31And it is up to the prison service to keep some order in there.

07:34I mean, what somebody like Anthony Russell is doing with allegedly with a metal spike in a workshop beggars belief.

07:41It definitely does, doesn't it?

07:44So that that character, he'll now be prosecuted for that crime and it will obviously extend his sentence.

07:51The person that's killed Huntley could now spend the rest of his life in jail, I suppose.

07:56Well, I think he will.

07:56And of course, you know, the prosecution of him is at our costs.

08:01So, you know, we now face another trial for a man who I think was probably going to spend most

08:07of his life in prison anyway.

08:09It is just a vile place.

08:10But, you know, getting back to Huntley, I was actually in Soham in 2002 commenting on then these two young

08:20girls being missing, you know, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.

08:23And I feel sorry for the people in Soham today and I feel sorry for the families because this is

08:30just brings it all back onto the front pages.

08:33It's another issue for them to deal with.

08:35And, you know, I absolutely agree with Huntley's daughter.

08:40Let's let's see the end of this man and let's not have to refer to him ever again.

08:44Most definitely. And you're so right about the people of Soham, obviously the family and friends and relatives of those

08:51two little girls.

08:52But similarly, the residents of Soham and the name of that lovely town has forever been tainted as a result

08:59of this awful man's crimes.

09:02We saw the same with Hungerford. You hear the word Hungerford and you know what you're thinking about, don't you?

09:06And that awful gun attack. And it's very difficult for a community to move on.

09:11Can I ask you that the person that attacked Huntley in jail, you said he was obviously a very dangerous

09:17and wicked man as well in his own right.

09:19What might have motivated this attack? Would it have been the idea of restorative justice, of revenge for the crimes?

09:26You know, you can't rule it out. It's not impossible.

09:29But, you know, Huntley had already been there for a couple of decades.

09:32He went to prison in 2002. Russell is a relatively new inmate.

09:38He's only been there since 2022.

09:42So you don't we don't know whether there's been, you know, bubbling friction between these two guys or whether or

09:49whether in some sort of perverted form of justice,

09:53Russell thought that, you know, Huntley was an even worse person than he is.

09:58I doubt we'll ever know unless it comes out in a coroner's inquest.

10:03Does that ever happen in a prison context?

10:06The idea of honour among thieves that, yes, we're all criminals.

10:11But what someone like Huntley did, who is actually crossing a line for our moral code and we're going to

10:16we're going to do a number on him.

10:18Does that happen, that mentality?

10:19Yeah, it does. You know, prisons are their furnaces.

10:27They're like the pressure inside them and they are extremely dangerous places when when you start to incarcerate people of

10:36Huntley and Russell's kind.

10:38I mean, in fact, Wayne Cousins is also in that prison, the guy that murdered Sarah Everard and, you know,

10:46several other really horrific people.

10:49And within that within that prison, there will be all kinds of pressures.

10:54It's a pressure cooker.

10:55Yeah, it is. Of course it is. And actually, we're speaking to our brilliant commentator and political consultant, Charlie Rowley,

11:02just earlier, who's still with us.

11:04And he was saying that actually prison should not be a pleasant place.

11:08The reality, though, Roy, is that people have to be kept relatively happy, even murderers, because otherwise you won't have

11:16order.

11:16That's the tension, isn't it?

11:18Well, that's right. You know, if you've got a couple of hundred people on a wing who, many of whom

11:25are unlikely to ever see freedom again, they're incarcerated.

11:32You imagine that you're never going to get out of this place.

11:35You have to have some kind of balance in there.

11:40You can't do it like Silence of the Lambs and lock them in cages.

11:44That's not what's possible.

11:46So the tensions in that kind of environment are extraordinary.

11:51And I really don't envy the role of the prison officers who are trying to control that place.

11:57No, they deserve a pay rise working with those sorts of people.

12:01What about five years on now, Roy, from Sarah Everard, who you mentioned, her murder at the hands of a

12:08policeman, a Met's police officer.

12:12Since then, an awful lot of crimes have happened, actually, in the Met police.

12:17Sex crimes against the public have trebled by police officers.

12:21Why do you think this is happening, Roy?

12:23I think that we went through a time in the Metropolitan Police when recruiting and the vetting of recruits just

12:34fell away completely.

12:36And I think many of us who are long retired can go back to when we were asking to join

12:44and putting in our papers to apply to join the Metropolitan Police.

12:48And, you know, we got home visits.

12:50We were thoroughly checked out.

12:53And there was a sense of discipline from day one.

12:55It was a disciplined service.

12:58I think two things have happened.

12:59I think the drive to get a broader ethnic mix into the service, to do away with things like all

13:09kinds of restrictions that were there in the early days.

13:12Diversity targets, box ticking, political correctness.

13:15Absolutely.

13:16Turn a blind eye to a candidate because they tick a box.

13:19For sure.

13:20And I think also the move away from it being a force to a service was there was a certain

13:28discipline that was lost.

13:30It was there was a kind of quasi military discipline back in the day.

13:34And I think that was lost as well.

13:36And I think that, you know, when you look at some very successful chief constables like like the guys of

13:41Greater Manchester, Watson, he has got a greater sense of service.

13:47And I think that's what the police service really needs.

13:49Well, stay with us if you can, Roy, with me in the studio is Charlie Rowley, broadcaster, political commentator.

13:55Your reaction to what Roy's had to say?

13:58Well, I think Roy's absolutely right.

13:59I mean, I think, look, you know, there does appear to be a sort of reduced gravitas if you move

14:05something from a force to a service.

14:07But I think the police over time and successive governments have tried to make sure that the police are more

14:13integrated in communities and therefore more perhaps more approachable.

14:17That might be the reason. So you want to be, you know, have more community policing and it's it's less

14:21of a friction.

14:22But, you know, let's see, you know, well, we know what's happened since then because, you know, we're seeing particularly

14:28in London more crime on the up.

14:30We're seeing, you know, people who having their phone snatched every five seconds, it seems to me, on the streets

14:35of London.

14:35You know, we need to restore that element of what I was brought up in.

14:39I mean, I'm 35 and 36 next month.

14:43You look good on it, I've got to say. Do you moisturise?

14:45I have a facial every now and then.

14:48You're a bit like Roy Ram. Your body's a temple.

14:51Roy, can I tell you, I've had an evening with Roy and he doesn't touch a drop until at least

14:543pm.

14:55Yeah, well, you know, that's very good.

14:58I mean, there used to be a rule in our office, no drinks before six, but we'll make up for

15:01it afterwards.

15:02I'm glad to hear it.

15:05Roy, it's interesting, your previous answer there.

15:07So do you think some of the challenges facing the police, I mean, we always know there should be more

15:11resource, right?

15:12We know that coppers are underpaid.

15:14That's my strong view, that they are for the work they do.

15:18It's a tough job. There isn't the support.

15:20So notwithstanding the extra investment that would no doubt be welcome, does there need to be a cultural shift too?

15:28Yeah, I think there does.

15:29To be honest, I think the police force needs to be, if you like, the iron hand in a velvet

15:35glove.

15:35It needs to have respect.

15:39Obviously, incidents like, you know, the appalling behaviour of Wayne Cousins erodes it.

15:44But there are tens of thousands of good officers doing fantastic work on a daily basis.

15:49And I think, you know, all police forces need to get that message out there, need to be loud and

15:55proud about what they achieve.

15:57But I do think there needs to be a cultural shift to a greater respect for the police.

16:01And lastly, Roy, what do you think about the state of crime in this country?

16:07Because my viewers and listeners, and Charlie touched on it, you know, in our big cities, they feel less safe

16:12than ever.

16:13You've got machete gangs.

16:14You've got mobile phones being snatched.

16:17You know, woe betide you, Roy, if you walk down the street with a nice watch.

16:22But you've got the local mayors like Karn and Andy Burnham in Greater Manchester who are saying, actually, crime is

16:31falling and it's just a media narrative.

16:33What do you think about how safe Britain is or isn't?

16:37I think that there is a sense of unease and uncertainty in many of our big cities.

16:45I don't think it feels as safe in London.

16:49I don't know Manchester terribly well.

16:51I used to.

16:52But I do think, you know, young people going out in the evening, their parents are very worried about them.

16:59I think the point you're making about, you know, gangs on bikes, London as a world capital has to attract

17:08tourists, wealthy people coming to this capital.

17:11If we can't protect them from attacks in the street, people stealing their watches and getting away on e-bikes

17:18or whatever, it's a real problem.

17:20The reputation of London suffers internationally and that harms our economy.

17:25So, you know, we have to tackle that head on.

17:27And when you think of the kind of resources that are being diverted from the Met at the moment to

17:33deal with all kinds of...

17:34Imagine the number of detective officers that are looking at Mandelson.

17:37Look at the number of those looking at the van that used to be called Prince.

17:43They are massive inquiries.

17:46And these are diversions.

17:48So we have to resource places like the Met massively more than they've got at the moment.

17:53And, of course, let's not forget those weekly so-called peace marches, Roy, which have required vast resources.

18:00Yeah. You know, I looked at the number of policing days that were lost a couple of years ago.

18:07And we are talking about tens of thousands of man hours, of man days, when those constables should be, you

18:15know, doing the community work and should be visible.

18:18And I think many of the people that come onto the streets of London need to think again.

18:23And the mayor needs to think again about supporting some of these demonstrations because it's harming Londoners.

18:29It most definitely is.

18:31Roy, what a privilege to have you on the show for the first time.

18:33I hope the first of many appearances.

18:35Have an excellent Sunday and we'll catch up soon.

18:38Roy Ram, former commander of specialist operations at New Scotland Yard.

18:43What you're looking at with someone like Roy Ram is an elite level, old school cop.

18:50And he's got common sense.

18:51He's got skill.

18:52He's got expertise.

18:54Gets the best out of his team.

18:55What a shame, Charlie, that the likes of Roy Ram are not still on the beat.

19:00Well, absolutely.

19:00I mean, anybody listening to that would think that they would want Roy to be their local chief gun support.

19:06You know, they want Roy, someone like Roy, with those values, with those ideas,

19:09that understanding of what the police should actually be there to do, which is to keep us all safe,

19:14to cut through, you know, the nonsense of what police shouldn't be getting on with, you know,

19:19such as investigating text messages or hurty words on social media.

19:24It's going after the criminals.

19:25It's protecting the public and restoring that respect in the police.

19:29Most definitely.

19:30So when's your birthday?

19:31It's on the 18th of April.

19:33So it's a while off.

19:34It's the big one.

19:35The big three six.

19:36The big three six.

19:36But I was always brought up to, you know, respect the police.

19:40And, you know, I was always told that if you get into trouble, you know, the police will be around.

19:43And there was an element of fear there.

19:45Whenever you see the police, you think, oh, you know.

19:47Yes.

19:47But we've lost that.

19:48You should definitely fear.

19:49Well, I hope there's many cops on duty for your 36th birthday.

19:52We know it's going to be messy.

19:54It always is with Roly.

19:55Don't be fooled.

19:56He's got this very debonair exterior.

19:58But when he gets on the JD and Diet Coke, all bets are off.

20:03Yeah.

20:04Diet.

20:04Is it the Diet?

20:05Of course we know that.

20:06That's why you're so slimline.

20:07Listen, come and see you soon as well, Charlie.

20:09We love having you in the studio.

20:10You do lots with Jezza, don't you, during the week?

20:12I do every Wednesday.

20:13It's been every Wednesday.

20:14It was a delight to have you on at the weekend as well.

20:16And, folks, so much more to come.

20:18Next up, the deputy leader of Reform UK, Richard Tice, live from the Middle East.

20:23Don't go anywhere.

Ian Huntley ‘TROLLING By Wearing Manchester United Top In Prison’ Before Attack

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