- 4 days ago
“Iran Is A Threat To The USA!” Keir Starmer Under Fire Over Delays In Middle East Military Support - TalkTV
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NewsTranscript
00:00Firstly, get a word with Ian Duncan-Smith, MP, former Conservative Party leader.
00:03Ian, good afternoon to you, nice to have you with us.
00:05Have you ever seen anything quite like this?
00:08Well, it's a mess, isn't it, really?
00:09I mean, it reflects one thing.
00:12Forget about the assistance or the war or the Americans using the airfield.
00:16It shows you that we now have a Prime Minister who, you know, is there,
00:22but might as well not be.
00:24Yeah.
00:25That lovely phrase, he's in government but not in power.
00:28And that's the truth.
00:29You see the division.
00:30They now believe that they can bully him.
00:32So they line up and they decide they don't want the policy.
00:36He has to guard external relationships.
00:39He is the one that is in charge of that.
00:42So any consultation he makes, and when I was in Cabinet, you know, Cameron rang me up.
00:48He didn't ring everybody up.
00:49He rang a few people up and said, what do you think?
00:52And you'd say, well, try this, try that, or whatever.
00:55But you don't go in as a group to gang up on him.
00:58And the Prime Minister is responsible, ultimately, for making this decision.
01:01And if he was too weak to get his way, the result is what we see.
01:07The fact is that we made no preparation at all, it appears to me, for defending not just our area
01:14of Cyprus, which now we hear the Cypriots are furious with us because we didn't, but also being absolutely ready
01:20to help defend our allies in the area.
01:22We used to have a Gulf naval patrol.
01:25Where's that?
01:26Gone.
01:27And all the ships are in port.
01:29Why were they in port?
01:30Because we understand the MOD is under pressure from the Treasury to cut spending in this financial year.
01:36And so the only and quickest way they could do it in the end of the year was to put
01:41all the boats inside the harbour and not do anything with them.
01:45What an unbelievable cop-out.
01:47Eight weeks or so this has been going on, knowing that America may strike.
01:52So we could have easily positioned defensive items in the area.
01:57We didn't do it.
01:57I find it astonishing, really.
01:59And one wonders, you know, what on earth would happen if Israel and the United States were to ask us
02:05to become more involved in a military sense?
02:09I mean, I think, you know, one has to assume the answer to that would be, from Starmer, is going
02:13to be no.
02:14Or would it be?
02:15Yeah, well, they got in a mess over their international law.
02:19People banned the international law around as though it was like domestic law, specific, clear, very, very dedicated to the
02:28idea of not taking action where complete evidence is.
02:32It's not at all.
02:32It's very political, international law.
02:34It shifts and changes and depends on your interpretation of it.
02:37But the reality is, when he made this decision as a result of that bullying exercise by Miliband and co,
02:44what happened is that he then said we wouldn't let the Americans use because they were making, effectively, strikes on
02:52Iran which were not self-defence.
02:55So two days later or three days later, he changes because he said, oh, actually, now some of our friends
03:01are being hit and we've been targeted.
03:02Now, the point about this is all his backbench were cheering, saying he's kept us out of the war.
03:08They either must be incredibly stupid or didn't listen to what he said.
03:12He said we can do this for the Americans now because it's a defensive action.
03:17But that also means that the U.K. is now fully in the same category as the U.S. is.
03:23That is to say we are party now to these actions.
03:27So the RAF might as well take part or not, but the fact is we will still be party to
03:32this.
03:33And so all of a sudden they realize we are now with the Americans on this.
03:37But the worst bit about it is we got there after we so hacked the Americans off about their refusal
03:44that we've gained nothing from it at all and lost everything.
03:48Our reputation, the sense of Britain as an important power.
03:52You know, our allies are all hacked off with us across the Gulf.
03:54I mean, we couldn't be in a worse position than we are now.
03:57Yeah, we've managed to literally upset everybody in this inept process coming out of number 10.
04:04Ian, you're a former military man yourself.
04:07What does your instinct tell you about what is happening in Iran?
04:12There is, you know, certainly at the beginning there was a sense, and I appreciate we're not even a week
04:16into this,
04:16but a sense that Donald Trump is very much sort of get in, get out very quickly, get this job
04:21done.
04:21There is another school of thought that this could run forever, or certainly for a lengthier period of time.
04:27What does your gut tell you on this?
04:29Well, number one, Iran is a threat to the UK.
04:32Just in case anybody watching this thinks somehow we're separate, we're not.
04:36We have been targeted by Iran endlessly.
04:40We have had attacks on British soil because the government refuses to prescribe the IRGC, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps.
04:49They have been fomenting that Islamic extremism, which has caused huge problems on our streets.
04:55They are behind all of that.
04:57They're allowed to do so because they are not stopped.
04:59That is to say that they have freedom to walk around our streets.
05:02They attack Iranian dissidents.
05:04So they've been attacking us nonstop and also our allies constantly.
05:08So first and foremost, they are a distinct and dangerous enemy who doesn't care a damn about who they kill
05:15just so long as they can keep the West on the defensive.
05:19So we had every reason to support America in this because this is very clear a present danger for us.
05:27Having said that, the reality here is also that the Americans have no intention of putting ground troops on the
05:34ground.
05:34People keep saying learn the lessons from the Iraq war.
05:38This is a very different concept.
05:41What America wants to do is degrade and eventually collapse the IRGC's ability to make war and to suppress their
05:50people.
05:52They'll still have to keep on striking at the moment, but they are getting down that road where they're taking
05:56out all the key sites and the key command centers and some of the commanders.
06:01We hope for two things.
06:02First of all, eventually, others in the official army and others may say enough's enough.
06:09We're sick and tired of having this because the IRGC exists.
06:13Time for a different government.
06:14And there are plenty of people on the streets and in their houses in Iran that hate this regime.
06:19So if we damage the IRGC's capability to strike and to make war and to decapitate them, then there's every
06:27chance that others who will now want to change the government may get more powerful.
06:31But the key priority is to destroy the capability of the IRGC, to mount offensive operations in the United Kingdom
06:38and across the Middle East and in many of our allies.
06:42And if necessary, if we do manage to get it done, completely destroy them.
06:47Those are the key principles.
06:48And on that specific point of military, physical military inclusion from us, do you imagine the RAF dropping bombs on
06:57Tehran?
06:57Can you see that going forward?
07:00Well, I don't know the government has the courage to do anything on this.
07:05I don't know whether the Americans even need us, to be quite frank, in this role.
07:09So I suspect that question won't arise.
07:12But as I said earlier on, Labour MPs, who do not want anything to do with this, should realize that
07:19what the Prime Minister told them the other evening was not what they thought, which is, I've kept you out
07:25of this war, as it were.
07:28In fact, we are fully in it, because he has moved to a defensive posture over the bases and with
07:34our allies.
07:35So we are in it.
07:36Whether we strike Iranian sites in Iran or take out their drones and missiles where we can, then the answer
07:43is we are at war with Iran.
07:47And I think that the Labour Party has to get their head around that, because they are not, as Starmer
07:52said, not taking part.
07:54We are taking part.
07:55That's the fact of life.
07:56Indeed.
07:57Sir Ian Dugget-Smith, thank you, as ever, for your time.
07:59Good to see you again, Ian Dugget-Smith, MP, former Conservative Party leader, former military man of note, too.
08:06Let's get a word from Sir Bill Cash, former Tory MP, too.
08:10Bill, good afternoon to you.
08:11Nice to see you again.
08:12I mean, two, and so we've got all the A-listers on with us today, which is fabulous.
08:15Nice to have you here.
08:17It's absolutely, I mean, I'm very glad to follow Ian.
08:20I mean, he's one of my best chums.
08:22And actually, he's completely right on all the things that he's just said.
08:25It is the most amazing shambles.
08:28I was in Parliament for 40 years.
08:29I've never seen anything like this.
08:31We've managed to completely destroy relationships between ourselves, the United States, which is unbelievable.
08:39I mean, think of the Second World, First World War.
08:41I mean, it's absolutely outrageous.
08:43But on top of that, Cyprus, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, it's just a list of shambles.
08:51And it's all brought about, if I can put it this way around, because I agree with everything Ian said
08:55before.
08:56But actually, it's also about international law.
08:59I was Shadow Attorney General for several years.
09:02And I can tell you, international law is not the be-all and end-all.
09:07It's used by Lord Hermer and by Keir Starmer, Prime Minister, as was clear from the statement he made in
09:17the House of Commons.
09:18The law is what it is.
09:20I was in there, in the undergallery, in the House of Commons chamber, and I heard him say it.
09:25The law is not what he says it is.
09:28In fact, what they've done is to bring in a new ministerial conduct code, which binds all the ministers, to
09:34say that they're going to do anything which Hermer says.
09:39And Starmer backs this.
09:41It's a complete aberration of the manner in which we should conduct our foreign relations.
09:47And Emily Thornberry, who is the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee, came on, I think it was on
09:55the 28th of February, even before things changed, and said, this is an illegal war.
10:01But this is a very serious problem, because you've got one of the most important Select Committee chairmen saying something,
10:08which has now effectively been completely changed by events.
10:13So it's not only a shambles, it's a disgrace.
10:16It's reassuring to hear yourself and Ian before you picking up on that point of international law.
10:22This is kind of just rolled out very casually, as if it usurps anything else.
10:28The sort of catch-all phrase, anything, any argument or, you know, reasoned discussion that you want to advance is
10:36kicked into the long grass because of international law.
10:39Yeah, absolutely.
10:40And the United Nations Charter, Article 51, makes it absolutely clear that you are entitled to take action where there
10:50is an imminent threat.
10:51And there has been an imminent threat for far too long.
10:55And indeed, it's getting worse and worse almost by the day.
10:58In fact, it is getting worse by the day.
11:01So basically, international law is being used as a pretext.
11:06But at the same time, it's creating a total shambles and destroying our relationships.
11:11I would say the Attorney General should go.
11:14Simple as that.
11:15I've said it several times in the Daily Telegraph, actually, over the last few years.
11:19And I've also raised a lot of objections to this assumption that we should be governed by international law for
11:27the last decade in Parliament.
11:30Well, the trouble is, Bill, isn't it?
11:31You've got these characters like Herma and Starmer and there are others all of the same.
11:37It's not just Miliband.
11:37Indeed, all of the same chambers, all of the same background, who are – it's almost in their DNA, this.
11:44I think they are kind of – I'm not trying to be deliberately mischievous or clever.
11:48I genuinely believe this is true.
11:50It's so hardwired.
11:52You're completely right.
11:52And by the way, the way in which – I mean, I know a lot about the Attorney General role,
11:57because I was shadowed to Attorney General myself.
11:59And I can tell you, they go for external advice.
12:02So they pick the advice that they get from the people who they think or can claim have got some
12:07independent expertise.
12:09Actually, to all intents and purposes, they go to the people that they know will give them the answer they
12:14want.
12:14And then, by the way, international law, because of the ministerial code and also because of the manner in which
12:23the Attorney General's position has been established, has control over the entire government legal service.
12:34I don't know whether people know this.
12:36When an Attorney General gives an opinion, then that is binding on the entire government legal service.
12:42So that is another incredible part.
12:45He becomes as important as the prime minister.
12:48And quite frankly, this has got to be changed.
12:51It's really – not only should the Attorney General, in my opinion, be replaced, but on top of that, the
12:59whole of the structure of the Attorney General's legal position ought to be seriously examined.
13:06There should be a proper select committee inquiry into it, and the position should be radically changed.
13:13We can't be governed by international law.
13:15We're governed, as our courts will say, where the law is clear and unambiguous, in, for example, an Act of
13:22Parliament.
13:23International law can be overridden because we have an unwritten constitution.
13:27That is the actual position, and it's set out in the Rwanda judgment itself by the President of the Supreme
13:34Court.
13:36I mean, this is –
13:37Go on, Will.
13:37Sorry.
13:38Yeah, I just say, I mean, this is so critical because it's destroying our relationships, following an obsessive, enthusiastic, but
13:48utterly misguided view that international law prevails over national law.
13:53It isn't true, and it should never be allowed to become apparent that that is the truth, because it's not
14:00the truth.
14:00Very well put as well, Bill.
14:02Thank you for that.
14:02But I just want to finish by asking where you think this is going to go, because Starmer is now
14:07a very compromised man.
14:08He's going all around.
14:09He's sort of created this cul-de-sac of doom for himself, almost, where he's managed to upset just about
14:16everybody, his own backbenchers, Donald Trump, all those neighbouring countries around Iran.
14:21Yes, his mouth, he makes it worse. He's going to speak in about 15 minutes' time.
14:24I'll bet that's another shambles.
14:26Indeed, yes. Well, we're going to be covering it live. I'm sure you'll have the popcorn ready as well, Bill.
14:31Lovely to have you on, sir. Nice to speak again, Sir Bill Cash, former Conservative MP, very logical, straightforward speaking
14:38bloke.
14:39We love Bill, and thank you to Ian Duncan-Smith as well. Great voices on this.
14:43Over to you, everything you've just heard as well, your wider issues on the question of what should Britain's role
14:48be in this war.
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