- 6 days ago
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00The doors to the den are open for business a place where fortunes are made and futures are forged
00:09But this time the game has changed a fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things up and
00:17steal the deals
00:20Joining the dragons tonight
00:22I'm Susie Ma and I'm the founder and CEO of Tropic Skincare. Good to have you back Susie. Oh, thank
00:28you so much
00:28I'm so happy to be back again
00:31My business has been at one of the top 100 fastest-growing businesses in the UK. That's what I'm looking
00:37for
00:37When I look into the eyes of the entrepreneurs, I want to see real passion
00:41I really like you. I'm looking for that entrepreneur with that seed of an idea that I know I can
00:47invest in support to make it something amazing
00:50I'm getting emotional here
00:52I am buzzing with excitement and I'm ready to make investments
01:06My name is dr. Katherine Fernando, and I'm a GP. My business is called IASI
01:15Don't tell me it's about that
01:18Well, it's got a stethoscope there. I've no idea why I'm engaging in this. I hate this game
01:27I'm feeling quite nervous
01:29I've been a doctor for 24 years, but I've only been a businesswoman for two
01:34So I'm anxious about the examination that the dragons are going to give me, but I hope they'll want to
01:40invest in me
01:52Hello dragons
01:53My name is dr. Katherine Fernando and I'm a GP
01:57I'm here to ask you for 50,000 pounds in return for a 20% share in my company IASI
02:05IASI is a Japanese word that means to heal and that is what millions of doctors around the world do
02:11every day
02:12But did you know that the traditional Gladstone doctors bag was designed in the 1800s
02:19At a time when the vast majority of doctors were men
02:23Thankfully times have changed and nowadays over 50% of doctors in the UK are female
02:29Unfortunately, the bags have not
02:33These boring bags are outdated masculine and sometimes they don't even have enough pockets to hold our medical equipment
02:47IASI makes high-end luxury doctors bags designed for women in healthcare
02:52They contain multiple pockets to carry and organize our medical equipment
02:57And we have six different designs and each is named after a pioneering female doctor
03:03IASI has been trading for two years
03:06We have sold nearly 300 bags and we have had a turnover since launch combined of 80,000 pounds
03:14Before I welcome your questions, I'd like to give you all a bag so that you can inspect them
03:21A stylish range of bags tailored to the taste of female gps and other healthcare professionals
03:28Is the offering from dr. Catherine fernando
03:31This one's for you, peter. Thank you very much. Okay, dr. Joan
03:36This one's for you, dr. Bartlett. Thank you so much. Thank you
03:39She's asking for 50,000 pounds in return for a 20% share of her company
03:45So I've chosen the red one for you. Oh, lovely. Good choice. Thank you very much
03:51The bags are proving popular. I like yours. This is cool
03:56And already wanting to make a trade
03:58Do I swap? Stephen Bartlett is first with a question
04:07Dr. Catherine. Hello. What type of doctor are you? I'm a GP. A GP, okay
04:12Is this your first business? It is, yes
04:14I think the um, the elephant in the room is just about the size of the market because yes, I
04:19don't know how many doctors
04:20There are and how many people that would be relevant to use this kind of bag
04:24Okay, so um, the doctors that are relevant for this kind of bag are general practitioners
04:29And in the uk there are 54 000 gps and over half of doctors in the uk are female now
04:36And about 60 percent of them go into general practice
04:40Okay, so how so how
04:42How many customers do you think you have that could buy this product in the uk total in the uk
04:48total?
04:48I think I would have 28 000 customers that could buy a bag
04:54It's not a huge market is it? It is quite a niche market
04:57The market is expanded when you include advanced nurse practitioners
05:00And you mentioned um, the word luxury in your pitch. Yes
05:04How much does this cost?
05:06So retail price of that bag is 300 pounds
05:10300 pounds? Yes
05:11Wow, wow
05:13Has it got Gucci on the side or...? It does have a lot of detailing
05:17It has details on all of the metalwork, the zips, it has feet on the bottom of the bag
05:24I think if you were a doctor you'd have something like that wouldn't you?
05:27I can see you with this
05:28I mean, it's gorgeous
05:30Thank you
05:31It feels really high quality, so what do you think?
05:35I think they're lovely
05:36I think I mean and when you look inside
05:39I think the design is lovely
05:40I mean there's a lot of work it goes into
05:42There is a lot of work
05:43I mean it's a high price point
05:45It is
05:46But when you look at the bag, I can understand how the cost, how much they're costing you to make
05:51This one for example
05:52That one for example would cost £73 to make
05:55So that cost £73
05:57Yeah
05:57What does that sell for?
05:59£275
06:00£275
06:01Yeah
06:01And are you selling the direct to consumer?
06:03I am, I have had some interest from a retailer and they've bought 58 bags from me
06:09And they ordered a few more like two weeks ago
06:13And how many is a few more?
06:15Oh, only three more
06:16OK
06:16They've sold out
06:17OK, so they're selling a bit
06:18Yes
06:18But they're not absolutely flying off the shelves
06:21I've got to say, Catherine, the product is great quality
06:25I mean, I had one but it's been taken by Dr Bartlett
06:28It's been done, by Dr Bartlett
06:30No, but I think the quality of it is fantastic
06:33Thank you
06:33So at the start of the business, I wanted to make sure that I established my brand
06:38Being a very high quality product
06:41And hopefully in the future, if we are able to continue with another round
06:47Then we can seek factories to get the bags at a lower cost
06:51You said to Peter something there which was quite curious
06:54You said if we're able to continue
06:56Yes
06:56What do you mean by continue? Do you mean the business continue?
06:59No, no, I just mean when we go into a second round of production
07:03Then it would be great to be able to source the bags at a lower cost
07:11At this point, we have a lot of stock
07:15I bought 1,900 bags because I went for the style and the colours
07:21Yes, so I have 1,550 bags left
07:27So if we're able to sell them, which hopefully we will be
07:31Then we can make £465,000
07:35From that, in which case we will definitely be able to continue and look for new markets
07:41How much have you invested in this business so far?
07:44I've actually invested over £400,000 of my own money into it
07:49£400,000?
07:51Yes
07:52Where did you get the £400,000 from?
07:54My uncle died in Covid
07:57Okay, sorry to hear
07:58That's okay
07:58Sorry
07:58That's okay
08:00You've produced a beautiful stunning product
08:02Thank you
08:03So it's not an investment wasted in that regard
08:07It is tough, it is tough because I've been in this space before
08:11And I spent a lot of time working in the marketing side of this space
08:14But also we had a business come into the den a couple of years ago
08:18Who was selling these designer bags made here in Manchester
08:20Right
08:21Tough
08:22Yes
08:22Tough from all sides
08:31A little bit too tough for me
08:33That's fine, I understand
08:34I'm going to say that I'm out
08:35But thank you so much
08:36And I'm going to pay for that bag
08:38Thank you Stephen, thank you
08:42Dr Catherine, I actually worry that you're so focused on the GPs
08:49That you're missing a massive market
08:52Okay
08:53Because I wouldn't, if you look at the inside of this
08:55It just does what I want it to do
08:57Great
08:57It doesn't just do what the doctor, you want it to do
09:01You know, it's a lovely looking bag
09:02It's got somewhere from my laptop
09:04I can put all of my toiletries in there
09:06And I can put, it's really nice
09:09Now, that doesn't stop the whole market being very difficult
09:13As Stephen's alluded to
09:15You know, but you do need to find a wider market
09:19And I suspect that if you can just find those platforms
09:23You will sell enough of the goods to do the thing that I actually do think worries you
09:28Because I think when it came out to Stephen saying
09:31If we can continue, there is something in the back of your head
09:34That's worrying you that if I don't sell these
09:37It isn't, I can't, I can't keep putting more money in
09:40That's, you know, you, £400,000, that is a lot of money to put in
09:44I know
09:45But I absolutely love what you're doing
09:47But I won't be investing
09:49I'm out
09:49OK, Debra, thank you
09:53Catherine, you know what?
09:54I think if you came here today with a wider story
09:59Of how this bag is a multifunctional bag
10:02For the everyday working woman
10:04I think you'd have very different responses from the dragons
10:08And I think there's a lot of work you would need to put into this
10:13To just shift the stock
10:16And I'm not passionate about it enough to kind of drive this with you
10:20So I'm so sorry, Catherine, for that reason I'm out
10:27You are very brave
10:29£400,000 investment
10:31In this business
10:33You are a real entrepreneur and brave
10:38Having looked at this
10:39And saying
10:40And heard what you said
10:44Your pitch
10:46Limits the amount of turnover you can actually do with 28,000 potential customers
10:52For that reason
10:53I don't see that's an investment for me in the short term
10:56So I'm out
10:56Thank you
10:58And Catherine, I think you've clearly got a problem
11:00You can't sell the volume, can you?
11:02Yes
11:02Right, so to be able to sell the volume
11:04You'd be better off to do something with a specific retailer that sells luggage
11:08And provide that product on a consignment basis to them
11:11OK
11:12And allow them to do what they do best
11:14Which is target their customers and sell your product
11:16And take a percentage rather than anything else
11:18Yeah
11:19There's your route
11:20OK
11:20Look, I think it is really tough
11:24I really hope that you can actually get out of the stock by partnering with somebody
11:28Thank you
11:29But it's not an investment for me
11:30I'm going to say that I'm out
11:32Thank you
11:34Well done, Catherine
11:34Thank you so much
11:35Thank you, Catherine
11:36Thank you so much
11:37Bye-bye
11:39Catherine hoped her doctor's bag would be just what the Dragons ordered
11:46But it's niche appeal didn't get their pulses racing and she leaves the den without a deal
11:52Although the Dragons didn't invest, they absolutely love the designs and the quality of the bags
11:57But it's just too small a market for them
12:00It's crazy how one sentence, if we are able to continue
12:04Yeah
12:04Tells the complete story of where she's at in her head
12:07She's lacking the confidence, isn't she?
12:08I'm having it anyway
12:11Can I have that bag?
12:12No, you can't have it
12:13You're not going to mind it
12:13No, you're not having that
12:17I'm still very passionate about my company
12:20And this is definitely not the age of Ayasi
12:35I'm Ben McGair, I'm the owner of Campo
12:38And we are on a mission to redefine food waste
12:41By allowing people to conveniently dispose of their food waste in one touch
12:46Composter
12:47Must be a composter
12:48Must be a composter
12:50What a load of rubbish
12:51You're on fire with your puns, Peter
12:54Oh, the fresh take you have on Peter's puns
12:57I think you're great, Susie
13:02The Dragons all have strengths that directly align with Campo
13:06I think Deborah, though, is the standout for her history of sustainable and eco projects
13:23Hello Dragons, my name is Ben and today I'm here to ask for £86,000 in exchange for 20%
13:31of my company, Campo
13:33I'm sure that you all dispose of your food waste in a variety of different ways
13:38Some of you will take the time to compost your food waste
13:41Some of you let the council deal with the disposal part of it
13:44However, some of you may simply throw your food waste into the black bin and simply forget about it
13:50When food is left to rot in landfill conditions, a harmful by-product called methane is produced
13:56Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas, which is 28 times more potent than CO2
14:03But we can take steps to reduce its impact on the environment
14:08Campo is a sleek alternative to food disposal
14:12You simply place your food waste in this unit
14:20Press one button
14:21And in five to eight hours, you are left with a dried reduced volume biodegradable mix, which is kinder to
14:29the planet
14:31For some numbers to date, we have received over €103,000 in pre-orders
14:38And that is with a gross profit of €64,500
14:42And a slight net loss of €6,500
14:46Now, with your investment, we are planning to heavily invest in our stock
14:51And our marketing expansion
14:53And with this, we predict that we'll be profitable by Q4
14:56I'd love to show you around and any questions you might have as well
15:00Can we come up and see?
15:02Yes, come on up
15:05A machine to break down food waste quickly and efficiently in the home
15:10I'd like to smell it
15:11Yeah, of course
15:13Is the offering from Ben McGurr
15:15So, is this a prototype?
15:16So, this is a finalised unit and we ran it today
15:20And this is, it's actually still quite warm from today
15:22So, um
15:23So, this is working?
15:24This is
15:24Yes, this is what came out of this one today
15:27The eco-conscious entrepreneur is asking for £86,000
15:32In return for a 20% stake in the business
15:35That's nice, that looks like the stuff you put out of a plug
15:38The dragons seem to be enjoying getting their hands dirty
15:41Is it squishy?
15:43But with a passion for all things green, Deborah Meaden wants to dig deeper
15:51Ben, thank you
15:53So, we actually compost virtually
15:56Either it goes to our animals or we compost everything
15:59There is nothing in our house that doesn't get composted
16:01And there's lovely juices that come off compost
16:04There is
16:04And they're actually, they are lovely if you're a gardener
16:07Because they're, you know, you can, you can do something with them
16:10So, what, I was going to say how dry
16:12But I'm going to ask a slightly different question
16:14Yeah
16:14What can I use that for?
16:16So, it is a biodegradable mix
16:18Simply mix it in with compost if you have it
16:21So, you're probably thinking
16:21Well, if I don't have compost, what am I meant to do with it?
16:24So, you can mix it with anything you have like potting soil
16:27So, if I wanted to essentially, let's say, repot this plant into a larger pot
16:32Rather than having to use additional soil
16:34I could mix this in and essentially the nutrients would filter out
16:37And what if I don't want to do any of that?
16:39So, I'm doing it because I've got a massive pile of peelings over here
16:43Yeah
16:44And this reduces the waste and the smell
16:46Yes
16:47Now, hear me out, this may sound very counterproductive
16:50You can bin it
16:51And I know that might
16:53That sounds really counterproductive
16:55It does
16:56And I will tell you why it's not
16:57So, if it was a scenario where you had to put it into a black bin to send to landfill
17:02A lot of, essentially when food waste, fresh food waste has around 70 to 90% moisture content
17:09That is really where the methane producing bacteria likes to feed on
17:16So, essentially you're lowering the reactivity of that material in a landfill to produce methane
17:21And you're also greatly reducing its volume
17:24Ben, did you develop this machine?
17:27So, when I moved in with my girlfriend into an apartment
17:32We had a food bin which was less than pleasant
17:36So, I actually went looking for a solution
17:39There was any amounts of fancy bins and different things that we've seen
17:43So, there is products similar
17:44However, their price point was a little bit less than desirable
17:47So, I went to a manufacturer and see if we could develop something at a much lower price point
17:53Which had basically all the convenient features of the ones that I've seen on the market that day
17:57So, how much is your product?
18:00So, it retails for £249
18:03Where is it made?
18:04In China
18:06So, this is an existing product that you've taken the branding of
18:11Or have you changed anything about what the manufacturer has already made?
18:15So, the initial prototype the manufacturer sent me was single, had a single filter in it
18:21We worked, I worked with them to get an upgraded version essentially
18:25But the actual development of the product is done by the supplier
18:30So, anyone could go and buy this product?
18:34Yeah, so we have been working with them to get exclusivity
18:39And they said that they will open those conversations at around the 4,000 unit a month mark
18:45Which we are not there at the moment
18:48Ben, this is a, this is a very, immediately it's sort of alarm bells
18:54I think the fact that you don't own any of this
18:56That's really, really worrying
18:58Because for this to become truly valuable
19:01You need to own the IP ultimately
19:04Something similar or a pattern
19:06You need to have something of value
19:07So, is there anything you can give me that gives you the confidence to be able to do a deal
19:12Rather than become a distributor of a product?
19:15Yeah
19:15Because that's ultimately what you are today
19:18Yeah, so I think in terms of the, the branding and marketing is where
19:22We want to try and retain some of that market uniqueness
19:27I've got trademarks launched in the UK and Ireland
19:30I know that's not a product IP that you're, that you're looking for
19:33But it is some protection that we have around the brand as a whole
19:37Yeah, what's the brand?
19:38Campo
19:39Yeah
19:39Yeah
19:40So, I mean that could be a football
19:41Yeah
19:42Even if you did have IP, people will still find a way to copy
19:45So, I don't think having IP in this day and age is that much of a big deal
19:50Yeah
19:51Because there's always ways around it
19:52Yeah
19:53I think like I do, obviously the IP is something that was a, you know, in my head today to,
19:57to counteract
19:59Um, I think like it's important and I understand but, um
20:02No, it's a big, it's a, it's, it's, it's fundamental
20:05Yeah
20:05Especially for acquisitions
20:06If you, if you want to build a business, a proper business
20:09Yeah
20:09You need the IP
20:10Yeah
20:11Yeah
20:11If you just want to be a salesman, then you don't need IP
20:14There are, I mean
20:15I don't think it's the be all, be all, be all
20:19I don't think it's becoming
20:20I don't, I think it's becoming
20:21There are some businesses
20:22Yeah
20:22That actually don't need IP and people come in here with IP and I say that's lovely
20:27But that really isn't worth anything because there's a thousand ways of achieving that
20:31Exactly
20:32So I think, I think it's not the be all and end all but I'm, I'm going to tell you
20:36where I am
20:39£249
20:40Yep
20:42Would I buy one?
20:44Why would I buy one?
20:46Well, the trouble is it doesn't do the whole job
20:50When you said to me, I might have to take, because I've got nothing else to do with it
20:56I've got to take that and I've got to put that in landfill
20:58That might be better, but I want to know that I'm doing the right thing
21:02I don't want to know that I'm doing 80, 70 or 80 billion to the right thing
21:06I want to know if I'm going to spend £249
21:09It solves that particular problem
21:12Um, so it's just, you know, I'm looking for slam dunk and you didn't give it to me
21:17So I'm really sorry, I won't be investing
21:19I'm out
21:23Ben, um, without being too predictable
21:27This is a tough sell
21:29For this to be truly successful and big, I still think you're going to have to own the IP
21:34You're a brilliant salesman, but that doesn't necessarily make a business that is investable
21:40So I'm going to say that I'm out
21:42But well done, and good luck
21:45Ben
21:45Yes
21:47You are an entrepreneur at heart
21:48And it's so clear, abundantly clear to me that you're going to figure it out
21:51Whether it's this or something else, so if I could invest in you, that would be a great bet
21:59But for me, the IP thing is the sticking point
22:02It really is
22:03So, um, I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best Ben
22:06Thanks David
22:10Okay
22:12Ben
22:13I'm going to tell you what I said
22:16You have not convinced me that this business is investable
22:21You are, but not this business
22:23So, I'm not going to give you my £86,000 today
22:29However, if ever you find yourself in London, you're looking for a job, you've got one
22:34Okay, I'll keep that in mind
22:36So, I'm not going to invest today, I'm out
22:42Ben, I think you're a great entrepreneur
22:44I love that you're thinking about something that for me is a really attractive product
22:49So, I would actually buy this because currently I have a compost bin that sits on my kitchen countertop
22:55That is gathering fruit flies
22:56Every time I open it, there are fruit, like literally fruit flies coming out of it in my face
23:02And then I put the bin out and then the foxes get to it
23:04So, absolutely, I would be buying one of these
23:07And I don't believe that you have to have an IP in order for you to be successful
23:12What is your vision for the long term?
23:15Like, where do you see this going?
23:18I suppose the real answer is in every home that someone has for their food waste
23:26Ideally, the vision is to eradicate food waste from landfills
23:29And to give everyone the opportunity to sustainably dispose of their food waste
23:34That is the vision and I do want this to be in every home as standard
23:39I love that Ben, I love that your vision for the future wasn't
23:43I want to sell X amount in X countries
23:46It was about eradicating food waste and landfills
23:49And that speaks to the heart
23:51And that's really amazing
23:56Ben, I am going to make you an offer
23:58Because I feel like I could come with you to China
24:01And negotiate better prices
24:03I think we can tweak some parts of the machinery
24:07And we can make this have a competitive edge
24:10Against all the other brands out there
24:13And also undercut them
24:16And I could help you promote this
24:21But I would like a higher equity
24:24So you asked for £86,000 for 20%
24:28So I will offer you all of the money
24:30But I would like 40% equity
24:32Wow
24:35Have a think about it
24:44So Suze, I think that a lot of what you have to offer
24:49Is definitely something that I'm missing
24:54I would love though to meet somewhere closer to the middle
24:58And could you meet me at 32?
25:03I respect you coming back
25:05With an alternative
25:0735?
25:11I'll go 35, yeah
25:1335 it is!
25:18Success for Ben
25:20Let's get the whole nation composting at home
25:23Yes!
25:24Well done Ben
25:25Well done
25:27He's won the backing of a dragon
25:29With the potential to help his food waste contraption
25:33Rise to the top of the heap
25:35Wow, yeah
25:37Obviously delighted to have Suze on board
25:39So I think that should bring a lot to the business
25:42That I'm not able to
25:43I thought he was amazing, genuinely
25:45I really, really liked him
25:47And I think regardless of what happens
25:48I want to be in business with that guy
25:50Yeah, that one definitely isn't rubbish
25:54Don't encourage him
25:56The investment really does validate that
25:58There may be something there that Suze sees in me
26:01Not just in the business
26:03I'm going to go get some food
26:04Celebrate with a pint
26:05And I'm excited for the future
26:21My name's Helen and this is my husband Phil
26:23And we're from Widness in Cheshire
26:26Phil and Helen from Widness
26:30It's a challenge working with your wife and being with your wife 24 hours a day
26:36But we've made it work over time
26:39Good luck
26:42He asks for his lunch every day
26:45Still
26:45Still
26:46I don't ask for money
26:50My stomach just churn then
26:53It is very nerve-wracking
26:57But we've practised
27:00And we really want this
27:01So bring it on
27:14And we want this one
27:15Hi Dragons I'm Phil Lord
27:16And I'm Helen Lord
27:17We are the founders of ReHome
27:19The kitchen, bedroom and bathroom outlet
27:22And we are seeking £100,000
27:24for five percent equity in our business we wanted to bring to you a new way to
27:30buy a kitchen one that literally doesn't cost the earth when we purchased our
27:36current home we needed a new kitchen and we really didn't have a large budget so
27:41we decided to see whether pre-loved could be a good option for us after what
27:46can only be described as long and challenging journey to online
27:50marketplaces we paid five thousand pounds for a beautiful big kitchen that
27:56would have cost considerably more if it had been purchased new that's when we
28:01thought if more people knew this was possible and had more help to do it they
28:06too might consider it too so over the last ten years we've developed our online
28:12supported marketplace for buying and selling pre-owned kitchens bedrooms and
28:19bathrooms re-home is b-corp certified and we have saved to date 14,000 tons of
28:26carbon waste and we're now looking for the support of a dragon to help us make
28:31re-home the go-to verb that people use when renovating their home an online
28:39marketplace for second-hand kitchens bathrooms and bedrooms intended to be
28:45easy on both pocket and the planet is the proposition from Phil and Helen Lord so
28:51we thought we'd show you some examples because pre-owned is a bit of a mystery
28:56when it comes to kitchens the couple are seeking 100,000 pounds so this kitchen
29:03sold at just over 13,000 in return for a five percent share in their business but we
29:09do estimate if that kitchen was purchased new today that would cost in excess of
29:15thirty five thousand pounds and this is the purchases results so as you can see
29:22it's been completely reconfigured into a different space Phil and Helen might be
29:29capable of cooking up a dream kitchen for their customers but how will they handle a
29:34potential grilling in the den Phil and Helen yes hi hi so at the moment I get it
29:44right you are a marketplace correct and you take a commission based on sales and
29:50you have no stock correct except except for appliances where we do own the the
29:54appliances as a dropship model yep so what percent do you charge commission so our
30:02commission for pre-owned is thirty percent plus yeah okay so how long you been
30:09doing this and we incorporated ten years ago ten ten years ago yeah but I first
30:17brought the business to market two years before that Wow so give us some
30:24numbers for the last three years okay our financials for 22 23 yeah turnover was 2
30:31million we had a gross profit of 1.2 million yeah and a net profit of 450
30:37thousand yeah in 23 24 we have turnover of 1.3 million gross profit of 640
30:46thousand and the net loss of 515 loss yes to connect loss of 515 thousand in 24 25
30:56turnover of 1.8 million yeah our gross profit was 1.2 million yeah and we were net break
31:04even and our forecast for this year is two and a half million turnover 1.6 million gross profit
31:11and net break even again right so somewhere you're spending money yeah well where's the money going
31:21so in in 23 24 uh we completely changed uh brand and developed a new website and we went to
31:31market
31:31with that in 23 hence why we had the loss did you have some sort of consultant to help you
31:36do that we
31:37did we did we had we did what was going on what was wrong with the business in your eyes
31:43that made
31:43you pivot and spend nearly the best part of a million pounds so the original website it had
31:50plasters bolt-ons you know it was it was a monster right and then the opportunity for e-commerce um
32:00really did come to the fore and for things like appliances smaller items that didn't require
32:07consultative sale didn't you consider something like Shopify or something like that it wasn't recommended to
32:13us amazing now you don't make as much money as a consultant if you recommend effective
32:20solutions it is it is a key learn um Helen Phil so I actually just want to pick up on
32:27some numbers
32:28because you're still spending one between 1.2 and 1.6 million so what are the answers in the next
32:34two
32:34years as why you're spending that much money um we're spending the money because we realize we still need
32:40to prove improve our customer experience and our technology how far are you down that journey because
32:46you've now spent nearly four we spent four million pounds on your website or or on developing this no
32:53we've only spent on the on the website probably around 800,000 including consultancy which is still
32:59quite a lot all right so there's 3.2 million that you are spending you you're spending every year 1
33:06.2
33:06million to 1.6 to yeah our overhead so we've got uh wage costs marketing costs um you know costs
33:13for
33:13running the business okay so explain to me the rest of your overheads yeah so our marketing costs um
33:21uh per annum are approximately 400,000 and um so we've got wage costs of around um 200 to 300
33:29,000 okay
33:32well that's 700,000 that's that's that's less than a half what we also have is um uh uh the
33:40cost for
33:41running the uh the website the the licensing fees etc there's about 100,000 there oh my lord
33:48what i feel i feel i feel what peter feels now i'll come and cry on your shoulder later
33:57oh 100,000 monitoring fees who's charging you 100,000 so that's 100,000 uh for the year to do
34:07what
34:07that is an absolute fortune you spent 800,000 pound on a website with ongoing inbuilt ongoing costs of
34:17100,000 pound a year these were experts that advised us to do that of course they were so
34:23we've got the website we've got a hundred thousand pound a year we're still less than half of the cost
34:28of the business so what else are we spending money on we've got consultancy fees as well oh my goodness
34:33who else are you paying so we've got a marketing consultant that is uh full-time how much um about
34:42ninety thousand just on the marketing consultant we spend on advertising we spend you know it's
34:49obviously there's a lot of marketing costs at the end of the day associated with the business
34:52that's brilliant and and it's lovely to see you committing resource to marketing but my goodness
34:59do you know what i feel like i feel like you are really good and you're paying other people
35:04to kind of knock you off course yeah and actually last year was when we realized that and we made
35:13some
35:13quite sweeping changes because it could have been a lot worse than it was
35:22phil and helen you've got a big issue here in my opinion um and i if you don't mind me
35:28saying in a nice
35:29way i think the big issue is you okay i've got a great business on the outset real excitement when
35:35i first heard it yeah what we've ensued over the last period of time of talking about this business
35:40we've made this business in my opinion completely non-investable it's almost impossible to invest in
35:47a business like this when you're running it so badly
35:53so for that reason sadly i'm out thank you peter phil helen um you've done a remarkable thing and
36:02you know the fact remains that you've managed to build a business that's turning over millions of
36:06pounds every single year so there's clearly some decisions that have been made correctly but um as
36:13an investor my my risk appetite isn't quite there for this business so i'm going to say that i'm out
36:18but
36:18wish you the best thank you do you know i i can really understand where you struggle because i've
36:26been exactly there i have made so many mistakes in my business and in my opinion it's how you react
36:34to those things it's how you evolve it's how you learn from those things that's what's important
36:41um but unfortunately for me this is not an area that i'm passionate about and i don't think i'm the
36:46right driving for you guys so for that reason i'm out thank you appreciate it look
36:56i think you've done a great job but you've got you've been going for 10 years 10 years is a
37:03long
37:03time and i don't believe that after 10 years you've got room for an investor so for that reason i'm
37:11out
37:11okay thank you toka um i love so much about this and i i really like the both of you
37:24as well i do like
37:25your honesty and you've built something amazing here i'm not out yet by the way but i do want to
37:31hear
37:32something how are you going to make money because at the moment you're growing revenue yeah but what
37:42changes to turn this revenue growth into profit so i think when we did the transformation we um
37:51had an infrastructure cost that was a baseline now what we need to do is we need to accelerate our
37:57sales
37:58growth because we're only working at probably 50 efficiency in terms of our cost base so we can
38:03probably double our sales and and not have to increase our costs at the same rate and the proven
38:09experience expertise that you guys have i think you would provide that mentorship and guidance to make
38:15sure that you know we're following the right tracks oh this this is difficult because i totally i do
38:22worry about your decision making processes and honestly if i got involved i can't run your business
38:30i can be there for the big moments but i can't help you on a day-to-day decision making
38:35process i
38:37appreciate that but we are making decisions lots of them every single day these few decisions that have
38:45been absolutely pivotal were technically two decisions out of multiple so big ones though agreed
38:54but you know not not to provide excuses we thought we had gone down the right route we genuinely did
39:02think that was the right thing to do and guys okay okay okay okay okay okay okay um i love
39:11this so much
39:12and i like you so much i'm going to make you an offer we haven't heard it yet hide your
39:19cards just put
39:20your hands behind your back um i i so i know how i can help you however you need more
39:28help than you
39:29think you need but i do believe that we can turn this into a profitable business and got ahead of
39:35the
39:36market so you asked for a hundred thousand pound for five percent so i'm going to offer you all the
39:42money but i want 15 of the business okay thank you deborah
39:52we appreciate all your comments today and deborah thank you very much for the offer we're willing to
39:59accept oh excellent good good well done great great a perfect ending for phil and helen who've secured a hundred
40:12thousand pounds
40:13i didn't expect that as well as the backing of a dragon with the business now to help balance the
40:23books
40:24deborah day one you go through the p and l you strip out all the consultants and retainers and you've
40:29got 500k profit profit you pay your dividends you've got your money back i'm so happy you're
40:34better boy boy do they need you as you'll have seen there was some quite honest opinions and then
40:41deborah came right in at the end saving the day so i'm absolutely delighted that she's agreed to come on
40:58board and help us i'm gordon leatherdale and my business operates two fantastic consumer brands
41:07one is for dogs one is for humans oh my god it confuses everyone to be blunt about it including
41:14me
41:14sometimes dog bakery there's dog and then there's gin and then there's chai tea this is going to be
41:25ridiculous i just know it's going to be ridiculous a lot of things as i step out of the lift
41:32i'll be
41:33thinking about being in the jaws of jaws it's the terror of getting things wrong i think is much
41:37anything else but i will have to wait and see what the dragons think
41:51good evening dragons my name's gordon and i'm the founder of a business that operates two
41:56fantastic consumer brands and i'm here today seeking a hundred thousand pounds
42:00for ten percent of the equity of the business what do we do well brand one if you like natural
42:06noble is all about exploring flavor many people as you'll probably know are accustomed to and very
42:10comfortable with creating their own food their own dishes from scratch and so on and so forth and we
42:16say why not extend that imply that to making your own drinks and drink flavors at home that's where we
42:21step in with our fantastic range of make your own drink kits easy to use they range from sets of
42:28botanicals and ingredients you infuse in liquor we have a range of cocktail making kits and a range of
42:34if you like novel infusion bags to bring consumers flavors they wouldn't otherwise try and the products
42:40are suitable for those who drink alcohol and those who don't the second brand is called dog by the hob
42:46it's a fantastic range of dog cookie making kits and accounts for about 11 of our sales
42:53drugs that ends my pitch i'm not looking forward to your questions but i'm here now
43:00that's it would you like to try some products we created earlier good you can smile now thank you
43:05very much that's terrifying but uh thank you you did great you did great we'd love to try your part
43:10all right thank you very much
43:13a selection of products for flavoring drinks and a kit for making canine friendly cookies
43:21comprise the eclectic offering from gordon leatherdale
43:25so there's an espresso martini on your left it's an alcohol one that is alcohol yes it's a cocoa
43:31vanilla chai gordon is seeking 100 000 pounds if you look under your chair you'll see a range of
43:38products you can try try the dog cookies if you want but you may choose not to
43:43in exchange for a 10 share in his business what do i do with this they're the more involved kits
43:50steven and you use those basically to to infuse uh larger quantities of cheap gin or vodka basically
43:57their curiosity may have been peaked that's nice so this is a tea bag yeah that's right so it's pudding
44:03flavor tea right um so all the all the character and flavor of cake with no calories but will the
44:10dragon's cash prove as easy to raise as their initial interest gordon hi hello um i love all these
44:23different novel products um really fun really giftable help help us understand the connection
44:29between flavoring your gin flavoring your tea but then dog cookie kit yeah i i this was a question
44:35i knew that somebody was going to ask it if not everyone to explain the the way the business works
44:40we had a big i hate to use word boom but during covert of course online sales were very strong
44:45and i'm sat there terrified we just moved into new premises and so on and so forth and i thought
44:50well
44:50what the hell do we do when you know internet sales drop off i suppose i've got paranoid and slightly
44:56frightened that we the business was going to take be taken out taken from under our feet as it were
45:00so as a group of people we just had a chat and thought we all own dogs and we all
45:05thought well
45:06we'll come up with this idea and just see what happens so it's really a question of i suppose you
45:11could call desperation more than anything else so so you started this brand the dog biscuit brand
45:17because you thought this was going to fail and has it failed no i thought this i well i thought
45:23there
45:23was the possibility of failure or failure or a massive reduction in turnover and you'll see from
45:28our figures uh later i'm sure one of you will ask that we saw a big deterioration tell us your
45:32figures
45:33sure fine in 2019 we turned over 150 000 pounds in 2020 we turned over 560 000 pounds in 2021
45:44we turned
45:45over 580 000 and in 2022 our turnover dropped to 387 000 in 2023 it was 535 000 turnover and
45:59last year
45:59we turned the turnover is actually 617 000 pounds and the net somewhere north of 50 000 pounds
46:07okay so looking at these numbers it tells me that it looks like 2020 the covert year was
46:11the big boost correct to your business but i can also see that you went down a bit in 2022
46:16when
46:17lockdown was over but you bounced back up again yes is that when the dog biscuits were launched yeah i
46:22mean that it was at the same time but the dog kits only so for instance last year we did
46:2768 000 pounds
46:28of the dockets what about 11 of the turnover so it's still a very small part of the bit of
46:32the business
46:32i don't know if i'm answering your question properly mr marion sorry i'm just trying to understand i'm still
46:37trying to understand why dog biscuits because your your business is doing all right you're i i can
46:43i i can't disagree with that at all to be honest mrs mark yeah we see demand yeah sorry susie
46:49i do
46:49apologize it's a it's something i think about pretty much every day i want to keep it because i enjoy
46:54it
46:56but our focus i think has to be on the the natural noble side of things and one of the
47:01marketplaces we
47:02were selling doing this you don't you don't you don't have a cigar on it but i'm quite i can
47:06get
47:07you a rollie if you want one i'm sure we can um where's your accent from because you're saying these
47:13terms somewhat and so forth they're so that's not accent what is it it's just it's very that's just
47:18so it's education where did you go to school i went to a place called kings in in torrenton in
47:25somerset right yeah give me six i know kings very well yes it's a great place great for rugby i
47:33was
47:33born in torrent oh were you yes i was born so you must have played against wellington oh that's right
47:38yeah how old are you um do i really have to yes you do i'm uh i'm 48 i've just
47:44turned i only asked
47:45because my husband was at wellington school checking whether or not he played rugby would
47:48i've played against him uh he's fifth no he's 50s 58 oh deborah i think i think your husband is
47:5758
47:58isn't he deborah i don't know how old he is no one knows 60. okay yes he is 60. he
48:05was 60 last year
48:06okay yeah well we always used to come away from wellington normally with a couple of black eyes
48:10and so they were ferocious they were they were hard so-and-sos they were good though they're very
48:15good yeah yeah i know anyway sorry um i don't know who i interrupted there but is anybody else
48:22mid-flow or shall i um i'm half pissed so what do you want for this business where's where's the
48:31growth
48:31is it more of the same or do you see that you've got a sort of hero product here and
48:38you're going to
48:38build on to it goodness that's a that's that's a great sorry that's a fantastic question um
48:49i think more of the same because i think there's still great opportunity to grow our brand in new
48:55channels and i think particularly with our if you like larger sets because i think they look they're
48:59much more of a retail proposition i think than a online proposition and what is your hero product
49:05what you know there's usually an outstanding one sure it's the gin and the rum and have you ever
49:12done collaborations with people like the craft gin club or that have you ever worked to get more
49:18exposure with uh the the honest answer is no we get the odd occasion we had an interesting conversation
49:23with the natural history museum they wanted to kind of us to do a marry-up as it were regarding
49:28all the
49:29botanicals so but then beyond that no we haven't done any other sort of collaborations we do get asked from
49:33Einstein but and are these coming to you or you are you going to get them uh they they come
49:39to us and
49:39we're working on a project now actually which this will it's about 1500 pudding teas that will go into
49:45a goodie bag for some event somewhere in either london or birmingham next month i i'm trying to pinpoint
49:52a where it is yes where that's coming from and where it can go understood and it and it feels
49:58a little bit
49:59like at the moment like you're you're here you've got this lovely product and people sort of accidentally
50:03find you correct yes which might be why you struggle when i say where do you want this to go
50:08yes because
50:09i'm not sure you're clear yet are you no i'm much clearer than i than i used to be now
50:13i i i'm quite
50:15pleased with the fact we've navigated the last three years but i have a much clearer vision for the
50:19business and that is about selling product to consumers that's that's that's the the route i want
50:24to take whatever we can get ancillary to that would be fantastic but i just want to make that clear
50:31gordon um just picking up on what deborah said there i it's um it's a confusing picture
50:38okay and it left me feeling like maybe you're not really driving this business maybe the business
50:44is kind of driving you because it doesn't seem to be be that there's much intentional strategy taking
50:50place here what do you want to push i want to push the larger botanical sets yeah i want to
50:57push these
50:57products here there's a range of whatever it is seven of them which there's like some coffee thing
51:01there as well yeah this is a flavors for coffee bag which just used and that's something i really want
51:04to push to my mind it looks like it looks like a slightly different brand to the other products
51:10yeah we've intentionally done that the reason is i really want to focus on retail with this product
51:15i want it to stand out on the shelves as the pictures gone on and on the sort of mosaic
51:19that's
51:19emerged here is you bring a product to market and then because maybe there's fear surrounding
51:24that new product or it doesn't fly or it doesn't take off you start a new product and that's how
51:28we end up selling dog cakes there's there's more than a limited truth in that stephen for sure yeah
51:34i'm gonna pull the i'm gonna pull the plaster off i i like you so much as an individual and
51:38as a man that
51:38i've i've i've struggled to say what i want to what i'm gonna say um because i just think you're
51:44really
51:44really top guy but i'm gonna say that i'm out because um i just i don't have clarity on this
51:49business and i've not been able i've actually got the more and more we've discussed it i've got
51:52less clarity okay thank you very much anyway good um i look at this and normally i'd look at an
52:03investment yeah i'd have a plan in my head but this just looks confusing so for that reason
52:13i wish you all the best amount well thank you very much indeed for your time
52:22gordon i'm i'm looking at you and i think that you are a fantastic product innovator
52:27now what i actually see here is you've created one two three four five different businesses but my
52:34advice would be to pick the one and and just be obsessed with it because when you do a bit
52:41of
52:41everything and you've got brilliant ideas but when you start something and you take it to a level
52:48everyone else can come in and copy it because you're not constantly obsessing over how to improve
52:53it how to tweak it how to make it better um i'm afraid i'm i'm not the right dragon for
52:58you to take
52:59this forward because there are too many components and too many things going on and for that reason i'm out
53:07i couldn't agree less with susie oh really i couldn't agree less you have got one product your
53:14product is spice mixes he sells flavors that go into drinks that's what you've got but i think you've
53:22just got to get on top of your branding and you probably need to tighten your range up a little
53:27bit
53:27but i think you have to have this right you have to be known for something and it's there's not
53:32one
53:32product there that is that you can own what you can do is own the space and just be the
53:38best in that
53:39space now there's a reason why i i because i'm getting very passionate about this and i you know
53:45i i i can see exactly what you need to do i wish you hadn't asked for a hundred thousand
53:49pounds
53:51because a hundred thousand pound is a significant sum of money and it is a considered investment yes
53:57and when i think about what i would have to do to help you yeah there's an awful lot to
54:02do
54:02i think you could share it sorry i think you could share it
54:09i think there's an opportunity there might have to give up a large proportion of your company
54:16but then you might not have a business here can i ask what you're thinking yeah peter i think deborah's
54:24spot on you are a drinks luxury drinks infusion company i think with very considered thought very
54:32actually not as much work as you think i think you could have a great business because i think that
54:37we
54:37could make this the leading company in its field so i would like to make you an offer
54:45you came in asking for a hundred thousand yes for ten percent i'd like to offer you 50 000 pounds
54:52yeah for 20 of your business and i'm doing that on the basis that if deborah would like to do
55:00the
55:00same because it was me that stopped deborah understood yep i mean sorry deborah can i ask would
55:06you be interested in in joining peter in this i would as long as you were happy with that
55:21well i'd be i i'd be blunt about it i my accountant told me i was being uh what seems
55:25very generous
55:26when i started i mean i'd much rather part with i'd be much more comfortable parting with 20
55:30percent if you'd be happy to take 10 each for 50 000 pounds now it's it's do you know what's
55:36really
55:36scuppered you it's the hundred thousand pounds okay yeah i mean i've you know i i'm not sure i
55:40want you to give up 40 percent of your business so so and that's really really important so absolutely
55:46i'll be happy but only when it feels right for you and if it feels right for you and if
55:50you if it
55:51doesn't then absolutely you shouldn't take it except the other i've got to be honest i think i think 40
55:56percent would be would be too much i this sounds like a ridiculous question and you can take me behind
56:02the bike chairs and beat the beat the hell out of me later but i'd be much more comfortable i
56:07think
56:07i would stretch to 30 percent if that was if that was workable for either of yourselves
56:14gordon i'm going to make this easier you're you're you are uncomfortable about this and it's not good
56:20we're just not sometimes understood it just doesn't meet and the worst thing anybody can do
56:26is get into a business relationship where one of the parties feels really uncomfortable
56:31so on that basis i won't be investing and i'm out thank you very much indeed and gordon likewise
56:36on that basis sadly i'm going to have to say that i'm out but i'm going to wish you all
56:41the very best
56:42thank you very much thank you it's been a great one yeah thank you very much you're a lovely man
56:47thank
56:47you see you bye gordon must depart the den empty-handed a two dragon deal was on the table but
56:57the
56:57entrepreneur felt the gulf inequity was simply too wide to bridge
57:05you know what i wanted to shake him quintessentially a british gentleman yes but the opportunity and the
57:12doors the two of you would have opened for him even at 40 i wanted to go up but just
57:17be like come
57:17on he didn't feel it and and the worst thing you can do yeah is is is having an unwilling
57:23partner
57:25it would have been amazing to have uh peter and deborah on board but i think ultimately giving away
57:3140 percent of the business was just was was too much to uh to ask right rightly or wrongly and
57:36i'll
57:37find out in a few years time
57:49next time they seemed in shock oh oh please please i'm not the biggest fan in the world of the
57:56deals
57:56that that drop i'm like why why like i still need to understand why it's good to know you have
58:02a plan
58:02b you should always have a plan b do you agree with that because i don't he agrees with it
58:08i can't work
58:09out whether you're looking for an investment you're or you're looking for a dragon to dress up as a
58:14chicken a bit of both talking tech and strange true stories ai confidential with hannah fry on
58:24iplayer will get you talking press red you from sounds born in one culture raised in another what
58:30means to be a transracial adoptee listen to made in china
Comments