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Dragons' Den UK S23E05 (2026)
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00:02the doors to the den are open for business a place where fortunes are made and futures are forged
00:11but this time the game has changed a fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things up
00:19and steal the deals tonight i'm jenny meek i'm a serial entrepreneur i'm currently the
00:27co-founder and ceo of refi beauty jenna welcome back to the den no thank you for having me back
00:33i'm excited for the day when i look into the eyes of an entrepreneur there is literally one thing i'm
00:38looking for it's their belief that their idea is going to succeed i can see in people's eyes if
00:43they're lying to me i know exactly what i can bring to a business so if there's a fight for
00:47an
00:47investment i will be absolutely fighting for it i love disagreeing with the dragons i really really
00:52do i am not scared of any of the dragons if anything they should be scared of me
01:08i'm zahira my business is called hattie i want to start a movement of human connection
01:14and my pitch starts in quite a unique way i'm just trying to throw the dragons a little bit
01:22off kilter
01:26okay absolutely no idea zero idea i'm stuck there's something a bit eerie about it there is something a
01:35bit eerie
01:40my perfect match in a dragon for my business would be stephen he understands like the millennium
01:46generation the gen z generation can really get us front and center
01:49yeah
01:59yeah
02:01yeah
02:19Hello, Dragons. I'm Zee, and I'm the founder of Hattie.
02:23We are gathered here today to finally lay to rest traditional dating apps.
02:28Because for those of us, like myself, who are in such a real human connection,
02:33they've wasted enough of our time.
02:35Now, before I tell you any more, I wanted to give you a quick question.
02:40I can either continue to pitch this to you myself,
02:43or I can put the rest of the pitch up on the screen behind me,
02:46lay in this coffin and allow you to read it.
02:48The choice is yours.
02:50I'd say get in the coffin. I'd say get in the coffin.
02:53You should never ask that of a dragon.
02:55We're all going to say get in the coffin.
02:56OK, I'm really going to need you to let me pitch this to you, please,
02:59rather than just reading the screen.
03:00You're all right. Go on.
03:01No, we'd love to hear from you instead.
03:03Yeah, yeah.
03:03It would have been really awkward if you actually wanted me to get in the coffin.
03:06Because let's face it, you'd never make a business decision over text alone.
03:10So why are we dating that way?
03:1280% of users of traditional dating apps are emotionally burnt out by them.
03:16And I should know, because I'm one of them.
03:19After deleting them for what felt like the hundredth time,
03:21I hit my absolute breaking point.
03:24And from the ashes of my absolute despair at that point, Hattie was born.
03:28The online dating industry is potentially worth over $9 billion.
03:32And yet today, only 15 to 20% of matches ever turn into a two-way conversation.
03:38On Hattie, we're completely flipping the script.
03:41Instead, every single match will turn into a five-minute scheduled voice or video call.
03:46So once you connect, there's no messaging, there's no dialing in, there's no scheduling.
03:50The app automatically does it for you.
03:52There's no exchanging numbers.
03:54The app calls you both at the right time and connects you.
03:57After the call, you choose.
03:59You can speak to that person again or end the match forever.
04:03We launched on the 14th of February.
04:05We made revenue in 10 days, and we've already grown to over 5,000 downloads.
04:09Today, I'm offering you the opportunity to invest £150,000 for 5% of a business that will become the
04:16next unicorn.
04:18Dragons, this isn't just an investment in an app.
04:20It's an investment in re-humanising the way that we find love.
04:24Are you in?
04:25You're going to have to wait to find out.
04:28I was really hoping you were just going to go straight to yes.
04:34Looking to spark a connection with a dragon is online romance revolutionary Zaheera and her next-generation dating app.
04:44The entrepreneur is seeking £150,000 for a 5% share in her business.
04:52First to lean in with a question is Deborah Meaden.
05:00So, I'm sorry, I didn't catch your name, did you say?
05:03Z.
05:03Z.
05:04Well, my full name is Zaheera, but everyone calls me Zaheera.
05:06Zaheera, that's lovely.
05:07Z.
05:08Okay, so, I mean, the idea sounds great.
05:12Just explain where you are with the business at the moment.
05:15What's your revenue model and how much money have you made to date?
05:18I'm assuming you mean February the 14th this year you started.
05:22Right, so it is quite new.
05:23Brand new.
05:24And, like, my whole point with launching it was to prove that there is a different revenue model you can
05:29have against a dating app.
05:30So, some of the traditional ones took anywhere between two and five years to monetize.
05:34So, one of the ways we make revenue is through booking dates through the app.
05:39So, we get a commission for every date that's been booked.
05:41The other way is we've integrated with dating coaching and mental health.
05:45Because my philosophy isn't just get people on better dates.
05:48It's actually make people better daters.
05:50So, we also get commission from any dating coaching that's been booked through the app.
05:54And then eventually we want to trial things like minimum subscription.
05:57So, it's everyone.
05:58And it's not a lot.
05:59It's like $2.99 a month.
06:00Is that the longest version of you saying it's pre-revenue that I have ever heard in my life?
06:04So, we've only made about £48 of revenue so far.
06:07Okay.
06:07Yeah.
06:08All of those words you gave were good and really interesting, but you're pre-revenue really.
06:13Pre-revenue, yeah.
06:14Okay.
06:14So, you've got 5,000 people signed up.
06:16How many of those are actually active users?
06:19So, it varies on the day.
06:20We've had about 17,500 likes sent.
06:23We've had 100 phone calls.
06:26But a lot of people have now run out of people to actually go on a date with.
06:29So, we largely grew through, like, organic TikTok.
06:32So, we had a couple of videos go massively viral.
06:35Just me explaining the concept.
06:37But then you get users all over the country.
06:39You don't just get them in London, which is a real problem.
06:41Because really, this is hyper-localized, right?
06:43So, you want to launch in London and then scale it.
06:46So, yeah.
06:49Zee, I have a lot of experience in this industry.
06:52I've spent some time with the founder and CEO of Hinge.
06:55I've also spent some time with the CEO of Tinder.
06:58Good friends with the CEO of Bumble.
07:01So, this is a very difficult challenge, right?
07:03And a lot of everything you've said about people's dismay and dissatisfaction with dating apps is so unbelievably true.
07:09I hear it all the time from everybody.
07:10I would just hate to be on the dating app circuit.
07:15And that video that went viral.
07:17Yeah.
07:17What were you saying in the video?
07:19Literally just me explaining the concept.
07:21And what part of it was resonant?
07:22I think, A, it's very novel, right?
07:25We've completely scrapped messaging.
07:27The app auto-shedules you a five-minute call with your date.
07:30So, I think there's a couple of things in the community aspect of it.
07:34Like, we will only accept people on there who are willing to actually get verified.
07:38And also, we have a ghosting penalty.
07:39So, if people don't turn up, they get banned from the app.
07:42And I think that's resonating for a lot of reasons right now.
07:45Because the younger generation are demanding more.
07:47The Gen Z lot, who are like, no, we want human connection.
07:50Like, they want raw authenticity in a way that I don't think the traditional dating apps have.
07:56So, you're the anti-dating app.
07:59You've taken every feature that people hate about the traditional dating environment.
08:02And basically, you're trying to do the opposite.
08:05So, there's a narrative there.
08:09Z, Z, you've come in with a three million valuation.
08:13And a project that's been worked on for a few months.
08:16How can you justify that?
08:19So, part of the reason for that is I've got a letter of intent from an investor at four and
08:23a half million.
08:23But I completely recognize how much value you would all bring to the table.
08:28How much is that investor going to bring?
08:31150k.
08:33You know, I think you should have signed that and got that money.
08:36Then you wouldn't have needed to come here.
08:39I think this is still an incredible opportunity though, right?
08:41Like, whether I walk out with money or the chance to just have interacted with all of you.
08:46No, I do.
08:46But I think you've come in with a valuation of three million.
08:50And you're pre-revenue.
08:52You can't for one minute have thought that that wouldn't be fairly controversial.
08:59I agree. It is controversial.
09:01Yeah? So, what about you?
09:04What have you done from a business perspective?
09:06Because that would justify why.
09:08Have you done something from a business perspective before and made millions from the seed of an idea?
09:14No.
09:14So, where do you get the valuation and what's the reason and rationale for the valuation?
09:19Because it's quite punchy.
09:20I think, so, part of it is that what I'm looking for the 150 for is really to get to
09:25100,000 users.
09:27And then assuming that 1% of our user base book a therapy session once a month.
09:32So, that's 25 pounds for every therapy session that gets booked.
09:35So, that gives you 25K a month in revenue from that.
09:39We then get between 3 and 12 pounds per date.
09:42And if you assume that 10% of our user base goes on one date, you make another, like, 50
09:49grand from just commission from that.
09:50So, for me, like, yes, the valuation is high.
09:54But I think, for me, there's a huge growth opportunity here.
09:57And it's about looking at the future growth of the business.
10:01You see, I've never used a date app.
10:05And the numbers you're talking about, commissions, are in relation to where you're going.
10:11It's very small.
10:13Get a percentage of a date.
10:17Get a percentage of therapy.
10:20That's not going to make...
10:22Those bits are not going to make the next unicorn.
10:27So, for that reason, I'm going to let you carry on with the other dregs.
10:31I'm out.
10:32Well, I really appreciate your time.
10:34Thanks, Tuka.
10:36Zee.
10:36Hi.
10:37Hi.
10:38This is a world to me that I just don't understand tech.
10:43They talk about building an app at work and then they go, oh, it blows my mind.
10:47So, for that reason, I am out.
10:48But I wish you the best of luck.
10:50I appreciate it.
10:53And, Zee, I think this is a market that's clearly very overcrowded.
10:59It's not something that I would want to invest in.
11:02So, I'm going to say that I'm out.
11:04But it's not a reflection of you as an individual for the way you've presented.
11:11I absolutely echo that.
11:12You've presented really, really well.
11:14And I feel like anything that you came up with, you will find a way to make it successful.
11:19Um, I have a bit of a worry for you.
11:22Okay.
11:22My worry is you are working in a space where a lot of your competitors have to win.
11:27So, if you do find that magic combination that says, ah, that's where we earn our money.
11:35Your competitors are in a situation where they can just say, oh, that's working.
11:41Okay, let's do it.
11:43That is a big risk for you.
11:46So, I'm really sorry, but I won't be investing.
11:48I'm out.
11:51See, this is a, I think this is a really perfect business for me because I'm particularly interested
11:58in community, loneliness, and how technology can solve that at scale.
12:08Um, putting like 150 grand bet on this, at this point,
12:17is just like too high of a bet to make.
12:20Can I convince you of one data point?
12:22What's that?
12:23Do you know Tim Ferriss?
12:24Yeah.
12:25So, Tim Ferriss went on the Modern Wisdom podcast last year and he said,
12:28can someone just build a dating app where the sole purpose is a 10-minute voice or video call?
12:34We did five.
12:35That's just our thought process.
12:37But he is one of the best tech investors in Silicon Valley.
12:41I think even if you don't want to invest today, and I can completely understand why,
12:45what I would love is if you do know Tim Ferriss, an introduction to him and Simon Sinek,
12:50because Simon Sinek is actually one of my biggest inspirations for this,
12:53because he always talks about the eight-minute call.
13:06just give me a minute.
13:13It's a big problem.
13:14Um, I understand the problem.
13:22Um, I am going to make you an offer.
13:27However, if I'm investing 150,000 pounds in a business at this stage,
13:32which I consider to be, with all due respect, an idea,
13:38I consider myself basically a partner in the business.
13:42Um, okay.
13:44So, you asked for 150,000 for 5% of your business.
13:50I will make you an offer to give you all of the money for...
14:0335% of the business.
14:07Vampire, as you would call me.
14:08I call everybody.
14:09But it's just, there's just no, there's just no...
14:10I just can't see another way.
14:12Okay.
14:14Well, somebody just turned in their grave in the box.
14:18Um, would you go down to 20%?
14:25No.
14:26I wouldn't.
14:2930?
14:3432 and a half and we've got a deal.
14:37Come on, Stephen, 30.
14:38Come on, come on, Stephen.
14:42Come on.
14:43Go on.
14:44I know, but it's...
14:45Even the dragons want you to do this.
14:47Come on.
14:49Yay!
14:55Thank you so much.
14:57After a tense back and forth, Zahira seals the deal.
15:01I'll see you soon.
15:04And with Stephen Bartlett now on board,
15:08her dating app just found its perfect match.
15:14It is one of the greatest opportunities that I've ever had in my life.
15:18I think it is utterly incredible that the dragon I want wanted me.
15:39I'm James Martin and I'm from Harrogate in North Yorkshire.
15:42We wanted to create something where people could enjoy the great outdoors in a bit of luxury.
15:48It's called glawning.
15:50Which means?
15:51Glawning is a lawn, isn't it?
15:53I feel like it's glumping, but you buy the tent.
15:57Well, they're really readily available.
15:59We've got one of those.
16:00To be fair, it doesn't have the awning.
16:02The what?
16:03So the awning is the bit between the tent and the car.
16:06So that's an awning?
16:07Yeah, but it goes with glawning.
16:09It was completely lost on you, wasn't it, Stephen, when Peter said glawning?
16:12Yes, yeah.
16:12100% lost on you.
16:16I'm passionate about the business and I've started to invent some new products.
16:20So this, I think, is a real exciting time and a great time for dragons to come on board.
16:32Hello dragons.
16:34My name is James and I'm here today seeking an investment of £60,000 in return for a 10%
16:41share of my business, Glawning.
16:43We aim to redefine what it means to go camping.
16:47It all started when I was on a camper van holiday with my wife.
16:50We had the freedom of the open road and we had the world's most miserable awning attached to the side
16:55of our camper van.
16:57It was boiling hot when the sun came out.
16:59It was freezing cold the rest of the time and it flapped around like a tent possessed.
17:04Worst of all, it was really, really boring.
17:06So we decided we're going to do something about it and we created the Glawning,
17:10which is a glamorous canvas awning that can be attached to the side of a camper van, caravan, motorhome or
17:16large vehicle.
17:17It can also be used as a standalone tent by zipping off the connecting canopy.
17:22Since we launched, we have achieved net revenue after VAT of just over £4.3 million.
17:30And we also have our own festival, which attracts around 2,000 people every year.
17:35But this is just the beginning.
17:36We now want to build a go to camping lifestyle brand.
17:41We have some fantastic new products in the pipeline and we believe that these are going to open up massive
17:47new markets
17:47and we'd love for you guys to be on that journey with us.
17:51So dragons, I invite you now to join us on the Glawning revolution.
17:56A glammed up camping classic, which attaches canvas to camper van or caravan, is the brainchild of James Martin.
18:05Please feel free to come and take a look at the product.
18:10Oh, wow. After you.
18:12This is nice.
18:14Oh, it's quite big.
18:15The entrepreneur is seeking £60,000 in exchange for a 10% share in his business.
18:23So this is a bell tent.
18:25Yes.
18:25So really the unique bit...
18:26Is the attachment to the van.
18:27Is the attachment.
18:28It's the awning, isn't it?
18:29It is, yes.
18:29Because normally that would be closed off.
18:31Yes, yeah.
18:33First to take a closer look at what's on offer is seasoned camper Jenna Meek.
18:43Hi, James.
18:44Hiya.
18:45I love caravanning.
18:46As a kid, I used to always caravan with my parents.
18:49And each time we got away, I'd be like, are you putting the awning up?
18:52Because then there'd be arguments because it took so long to put this awning up.
18:56Yes.
18:56So how difficult is this one to put up?
18:58How long does it take?
18:59Well, that's one of the reasons we chose a bell tent as the kind of base tent,
19:04because they're very easy to put up.
19:05And it's usually about eight and a half minutes on my own to go from start to finish.
19:10And you mentioned this 4.3 million.
19:14So what is the current business architecture right now?
19:17Are you selling these at festivals or have you got another company that is a, you mentioned a festival.
19:23What have you sold to make 4.3 million?
19:25Yes.
19:26So the 4.3 million is solely to do with the Glawning business.
19:30So 75% of sales come online and about 25% at festivals.
19:36We do have a festival, we run that as a separate company.
19:39So the first year we did that was 2017 and we had about 150 people.
19:43And then it's just grown year on year and there's now about 2,000 people come along to that.
19:47So that has a separate turnover with its own profit.
19:50James, do you buy these individually or separately?
19:54You buy them separately.
19:55So you buy the base tent and then you buy your connecting canopy.
19:59And that varies in size.
20:01We do a standard height one which will fit on the likes of the transporter which is here.
20:05And then we do a high top version which will go on caravans, motorhomes and bigger vehicles.
20:10And we now do an inflatable one which we've just launched but we haven't got them in stock yet.
20:14But we've kind of sold half of them already.
20:17OK, so when did you start this?
20:20I came up with the product in 2013.
20:22At the time I was actually running a start-up law firm.
20:26So my focus kind of wasn't on this.
20:28OK.
20:29So are these sort of like side hustles for you?
20:33And you're a lawyer by day?
20:35So at the start it was a side hustle.
20:38Then it started to do pretty well.
20:40Right, so you're now doing this full time?
20:42Yes.
20:46James.
20:47Yeah.
20:48So I'm assuming you're buying this in from China.
20:52Yeah.
20:54So there's no barriers to entry on this.
20:58If I wanted to do this, I'd pick up the phone.
21:01Yeah.
21:01And within 12 weeks I'd have it in my warehouse.
21:05Yeah.
21:05Well we do have design rights on this particular configuration.
21:08Yeah, but your design right might be you've got 24 inches higher.
21:12But something similar I can get.
21:15Yeah.
21:16I mean there have been people who have tried to copy it.
21:19I'm not going to copy it.
21:20I'm just going to ring up my team in China.
21:23I'm going to pick the ones I want.
21:25Easy as that.
21:29James.
21:30Yes.
21:31On the 4.3 million in revenue you've generated over the last,
21:34is it 10, roughly 10 years, just over 10 years?
21:35Yes, yeah.
21:36What's the net profit been, the cumulative net profit?
21:39About 150,000.
21:41Okay.
21:42So, hmm.
21:46So when I look at the business, it doesn't look very investable.
21:54Because if I were to invest 60,000 pounds, say it was for 10% or in that region,
22:00it would take some time based on the profits being generated in the business to ever get a return.
22:05So, how does a return happen in this business if the cumulative net profit over the last decade has been
22:10150K?
22:12So, my plan is now to build the business on innovation, primarily.
22:19We have some great new products in the pipeline.
22:20So, we've got one that we've just recently released, which is the inflatable version of the Glawning.
22:28We've already sold half of those, and we should sell the others fairly quickly.
22:33I also have applied for a patent for a new design, which I think is going to be a game
22:40-changer.
22:41So, there's future innovation coming, which I'm betting on.
22:44Yes.
22:44Versus what I see here, and the business in front of me.
22:48I always, it's always a bit of an amber flag for me when an entrepreneur says to not invest in
22:53the thing in front of me,
22:54but in something that is coming.
22:56For me, I'm always like, ah, I want to invest in...
22:59I can tell you about it.
23:01Yeah.
23:02As I say, the patent that we've just applied for is something that I think will take this to the
23:09next level.
23:10What is that patent?
23:11So, it's for a roof box, which has an inflatable awning integrated inside of it.
23:20You open the roof box, you plug into your 12-volt, you press a button, and the awning inflates out
23:24of the side of the van.
23:26So, it's taking the pain points of having to get the awning out of its bag,
23:30connect the pump up, pump it up, line it all up with the van, connect it, all of that is
23:34kind of done.
23:35And is that a patent or a design patent?
23:39That's a patent.
23:40That's a patent.
23:40These are just design rights, but that's a patent.
23:43See, James, that's so much more exciting than this.
23:47Yes.
23:48I wish you could have come in and at least demonstrated that.
23:52Even if it was in a prototype shape or form, because that could be investable.
23:58But this is just a tent.
24:02It's tough.
24:04Where are you in your patent?
24:07We've applied for it.
24:08And when?
24:10Yesterday.
24:12Right, OK.
24:13Well, I wanted to get it in and have it applied for...
24:16So, you have no idea whether or not somebody else is going to pop their head up and said,
24:20I actually did that about 10 years ago?
24:21No.
24:26James, it's...
24:29There's quite a lot of frustration here.
24:33And it also feels a little bit disingenuous because you only applied for a patent yesterday.
24:41So, it feels like, I've got this inflatable idea.
24:46Let's quickly pivot.
24:47Let's get this invention, because I know they like patents.
24:50I'm just going to have a go.
24:51That's how it feels.
24:52It feels a bit disingenuous, the pitch now, with what you just said.
24:56Yeah, well...
24:57If this is something that you've been working on and something you've been thinking about,
25:01why did you apply yesterday for a patent?
25:03Well, I did...
25:04I did bring it forward to yesterday, so I would have the patent applied for.
25:08But I wonder whether your pitch could have been much better, James.
25:12It could have been, you know, I've spent the last eight years of my life creating the perfect awning.
25:18And I've given up being a lawyer to focus on this.
25:22But I've got a seed of an incredible idea that I think is going to make millions.
25:26And it's called the inflatable roof box awning.
25:30Mm-hmm.
25:31I've now got a patent, Dragons.
25:32Yeah.
25:33And all of a sudden, I've got a different... I've got a different pitch.
25:36Yeah.
25:37I genuinely... I think we'd be fighting over who invested.
25:41Sadly, I'm going to say that I'm out.
25:44OK.
25:44But I... I encourage you, if you do get the patent,
25:48please come straight to me and I'll deal with you directly.
25:52Thank you, Peter.
25:57James, I always sit here trying to figure out whether the entrepreneur is selling me
26:01a measurable past or a hypothetical future.
26:03Yeah.
26:04So I'm trying to piece together from what you're saying
26:06what I would actually be investing in because it's not in the den today.
26:10I'm a big fan of the inflatable idea.
26:12If I tried to put up a tent like this, it would end up looking like a sleeping bag.
26:16But for me, as an investment proposition, it's not for me,
26:19so I'm going to say that I'm out.
26:20OK. Thank you, Stephen.
26:25James.
26:26I think it's quite cool.
26:28I think it's... I think it's actually quite...
26:31It's one of those innovations you think,
26:32why didn't somebody do it before?
26:34It feels so obvious.
26:35Yeah, it's very simple.
26:36Very simple, absolutely.
26:38Had you been further down the route of the patent,
26:40I might well have been more inclined to invest, to be honest,
26:44but right now I've got a clue.
26:46I haven't got a clue whether or not tomorrow 27 people go,
26:50yeah, no, I did that 10 years ago.
26:52And neither have you.
26:55So I'm afraid I won't be investing.
26:58And I'm out.
26:59But I really do wish you all the best.
27:01I really do.
27:05James.
27:06I take care.
27:11It's a shame.
27:14Because...
27:17Innovation came quite late in the pitch.
27:20So today, unfortunately, it's not investable,
27:23but I wish you all the best, but I'm out.
27:30James.
27:31Hi.
27:32So I really wish I could have helped you...
27:34Right.
27:34...do your pitch, because you came in and you said,
27:37I've got this tent and then I've got this festival,
27:38but the festival's a different business.
27:40Mm-hm.
27:40Or actually, if you come in and being like,
27:42my vision is to own this...
27:45this world, and you've got this community of 2,000 people
27:49at your fingertips, at a festival, in real life.
27:52If I'm like, oh my God, there's something there,
27:54and you're not seeing the two together,
27:57and how that is the start of what could be something huge,
28:00because you cannot replicate community.
28:04I think, for me, it's about going away and understanding
28:08with this community that you've already got.
28:10Start there.
28:11Ask them questions.
28:12Hey, how can we develop this?
28:14How can we make this one better?
28:15Who's interested in the inflatable?
28:17And try and understand, how can you be that campervan business
28:21of solution and make it easier for the customers
28:23that want this life that you're trying to sell?
28:26Because I want it.
28:27I've been looking at campervans.
28:28Then you will just fly, because I think this is really cool,
28:31and I would want my campervan to look like this
28:34when I do get one.
28:35But it's not an investment for me, so I am out.
28:37OK.
28:38Best of luck.
28:39Thank you very much.
28:40Thank you, Dragons.
28:41Cheers.
28:44That's it for James.
28:46The Dragons admired his creativity,
28:48but felt the focus had been on the wrong product.
28:52And he leaves the den with nothing.
28:56Yes, that was intense.
28:58Peter gave a great alternative pitch,
29:00which in hindsight would be lovely to have done,
29:03but it's hard to know what they're going to focus on
29:06and what they're going to build on.
29:07So, hey, hey.
29:09Onwards and upwards.
29:28You want some water?
29:30Yeah, let's do this.
29:31I'm Connor.
29:32I'm Harry.
29:33And we're two of the founders of Club Cultured.
29:35Cheers.
29:36Cheers, mate.
29:37And we make delicious, premium,
29:39high-quality ferments and pickles.
29:42We're in the den.
29:43We're going to get the deal we want.
29:45The missus don't like the smell of kimchi.
29:48We close all the time, but it's all right.
29:50We're dedicated.
29:51We're here.
29:52We're doing the work.
29:53Kimchi.
29:54Oh, fermented foods.
29:56Fermented foods, yeah.
29:58Very good for the gut microbiome.
29:59Very good.
30:01Ready, bro?
30:02All right.
30:03Got this.
30:04Love you.
30:04Love you too.
30:05We've done our research on the dragons.
30:07We know they're into gut health.
30:08We know they're big foodies.
30:09And they've made a series of food investments before.
30:12Yeah.
30:14That's what we've been waiting for.
30:16So we're just super excited to get into the den and share our products and our business with them.
30:31You all right, dragons?
30:32How's it going, dragons?
30:33Hello.
30:34What if we told you there's a fermented food brand that produces proteins, sides, and sauces?
30:39Well, we're the founders of that brand, Club Cultured.
30:43I'm Harry.
30:44That's Connor.
30:45And our journey began in our business partner, James' back garden, where we turned an old fridge into a DIY
30:50fermenter and made our first batch of tempeh.
30:52Since then, we have built a delicious range of premium plant-based ferment and pickles crafted by a chef who's
30:59trained in Michelin star kitchens that deliver bold flavours and known gut health benefits.
31:05We believe food that does good should taste amazing, too.
31:08That's why our naturally fermented and pickled products, such as our umami-rich kimchi to tangy krauts and punchy sauces,
31:14are designed to slot effortlessly into your daily meals, making gut health easy and enjoyable.
31:20We've produced and sold over 200,000 kilos, generated 1.4 million in sales, and supplied some of the UK's
31:26biggest food brands.
31:28After maxing out our second site, we moved into our brand new 4,500 square foot fermentation facility in Norfolk.
31:36We make everything in-house, giving us total control over quality, flavour, and consistency.
31:44We're now forecasting to hit 4.5 million in sales in 2028, with a deep pipeline spanning across manufacturing, food
31:51service, and retail.
31:52We're here today to ask for a £50,000 investment in exchange for 3.5% equity into our brand.
31:58So, Connor's prepared some delicious samples for you guys.
32:02We have some tempeh sushi rolls and some kimchi pancakes, and there's some little samples of the pickles and ferments
32:06for you to try as well.
32:09A range of gut-friendly pickles and ferments, including tempeh, a traditional Indonesian staple made from soybeans, is the proposition
32:19from Harry Watmo and Connor Jordan.
32:23I'm not sure everyone's spice tolerances, but the red one obviously has some chilli in it, so don't go eating
32:28the whole pot in one go.
32:29The pair are seeking £50,000 in exchange for a 3.5% share in their company.
32:36That smell, that is amazing.
32:39Thank you, I bought it in Selfridges.
32:42I'll show you the bottle if you want.
32:44Eau de kimchi.
32:45Yeah, Eau de kimchi.
32:47Their products may smell and taste the part...
32:50Really good.
32:52..but will their enterprise prove just as appetising?
32:58Connor, Harry.
32:59Hello. Hello, Deborah.
33:01That tempeh is absolutely delicious.
33:03You probably know I'm plant-based.
33:06This looks like the contents of my fridge.
33:08But that tempeh is, I think, the best I've ever, ever tasted.
33:14Wow, thank you.
33:15But I don't understand, do you sell the tempeh or are you just giving that to me?
33:18We supply the ones in the sleeves there as tempeh.
33:21So we actually, when we first discovered tempeh, we taught ourselves how to make it.
33:24And after a while, we didn't know what we were doing.
33:26We were losing batches, we were working night shifts, taking it home.
33:29Nothing was working.
33:30So it was like, we need to find the tempeh yoda.
33:32So we went to Indonesia for a week's training, learned how to make it properly.
33:36And we pride ourselves on making Indonesian grey tempeh,
33:39really doing homage to the quality of that product.
33:42And if you look at the reviews on our website,
33:44it's consistently the same comments.
33:45Like people say, it's the best tempeh I've ever had.
33:49Connor, Harry.
33:51Really interesting business.
33:52So I'm a big Gut Microbiome fan.
33:54Yes.
33:54What are your backgrounds and what brought you to the Gut Microbiome world?
33:58Let me go first, Chef.
33:59So we've known each other since we were five years old.
34:02My background is I didn't do particularly great at school, but my love was cooking.
34:06So I went to college and done three years professional chef's diploma.
34:11And then I got work experience in the Ritz Hotel in London.
34:15And I ended up going there two weeks after I left college at 18.
34:19I stayed there for six years.
34:20And then my background.
34:22So I also left school at 16, got a job at a stockbroker.
34:26Worked there for six years.
34:27And our other business partner, James, we're best friends from year seven at school.
34:30We worked with each other from 19 to 22 on the same desk.
34:33We realized that life wasn't for us.
34:35Went traveling for 18 months to where we sort of first discovered kimchi, tempeh,
34:39and we just fell in love with it.
34:40And then when we came back to England, we could just see that everything was really processed.
34:44And we felt like, you know, there's a huge opportunity for fermented foods.
34:48And we went for it.
34:50So if I'm looking at this business from a financial perspective,
34:53what year does it really begin for you?
34:562020 was the first year we did manufacturing.
34:58Okay, so let's go from 2020.
35:00Give me the revenue and net.
35:01Yeah, so 90k revenue, a loss of 44k.
35:0444?
35:05Yeah.
35:05The following year was 275k, a loss of 73.
35:09Yeah.
35:10The following year after that was 342k, and a loss of 123.
35:14And the year after that was 359k, and a loss of 104k.
35:19And then last year was 253k, and a loss of 83.
35:24You've lost probably almost £400,000 since the business's inception.
35:29Yeah.
35:30Where has that money come from?
35:31So we've had investors.
35:32So we've raised just under half a million since we started.
35:36And for kitting out our last space, we took out a loan ourselves to fund that kit out for our
35:41move to Norfolk.
35:42So you've raised 500k for investors.
35:44Yeah.
35:44And how much of the business do you guys still loan?
35:4756%.
35:4756%?
35:48Between three of you?
35:49Yeah.
35:49Okay.
35:50And you've taken a loan of what?
35:51So that last loan, it was 225k.
35:54And the outstanding amount we have left is 174,000.
35:57And how much cash have you got in the bank?
35:59About 85k.
36:01Okay.
36:01And what are you forecasting for this year?
36:03This year, 450,000, and a net profit of 22 and a half.
36:08And how are you tracking so far for this year?
36:10We've done about 75k so far this year.
36:12But we actually had a new big customer come visit us two days ago, and we have some big contracts
36:17lined up for them.
36:20So for me, it looks like the business is going down rather than up.
36:25So what's the goal?
36:26What are you trying to do?
36:27So for us, it's been the leader in the industry in UK manufacturing for these products.
36:32But you need to do about 100x compared to where you are, don't you, to be able to do that?
36:36Yeah.
36:37But we're confident we can build our brand position as well as on the food service side.
36:41But my big thing here is that if you want to try and get half a million in sales, you
36:46haven't got the cash.
36:49Well, we're confident with these contracts coming in that will enable us to grow and bring more...
36:54Yeah, but how?
36:54How will you do that?
36:55How are you going to pay for it?
36:58Well, we're confident with what we've got at the moment.
37:01And we have other investors who said before, when it gets to a stage...
37:04No, that's the point, though.
37:05So what does that mean?
37:06So I invest today 50k, 3.5%.
37:09Other investors put more money in.
37:11I'm going to go down, aren't I?
37:12I'm going to dilute.
37:13So how much money are you looking to raise, in essence, over the next 12 months?
37:17Well, this would be the only money we raise over the next 12 months.
37:20That's not enough.
37:21I think it will be enough.
37:23It's not enough.
37:24It definitely isn't enough.
37:26Because you've raised 500, you've nearly spent all of that, you're out of cash.
37:31You've only got cash in your business because you've got £170,000 of a loan.
37:36You have no cash.
37:37You're currently insolvent.
37:39Well, today our current cash position is £85,000.
37:42Yeah, I know, but you owe £174,000.
37:44You can't afford to pay the loan back.
37:45So I'm putting in £50,000 into a business that's already hasn't got enough cash to pay back its debts.
37:52It's not a good investment, guys.
37:57So I'm going to have to say, sadly, that I'm out.
38:00But I wish you every bit of luck.
38:02And your product does taste beautiful, stunning.
38:05Thank you, Peter.
38:06Great chef.
38:07Cheers.
38:07Thank you very much.
38:10Can I ask when you're going to be making £400,000 profit?
38:14In a single year?
38:15No, as a cumulative.
38:18So by 2026, we're forecasting £1 million and a net profit of £100,000.
38:23And then the following year, £2.5 million and a net of £375,000.
38:28So between those next two and a bit years.
38:30OK.
38:30So in two years, you'll have made up your losses.
38:33Yeah.
38:33OK.
38:36I really, really want to invest in this.
38:43Actually, I'm going to be quiet.
38:45Ooh.
38:49Hi.
38:50I'll just tell you where I am, because I think you guys are great.
38:54And you've done everything to make a beautiful, beautiful product.
38:57But you've got a lot of experts in here that are probably very clued up on this stuff.
39:01I am probably as your more mass market customer here, because I go into Holland and Barrett,
39:05and I don't know what I'll go in for.
39:07And then I walk out with 20 prebiotics.
39:09I think as an investor to actually help you, I wouldn't really be able to do much.
39:14Sure.
39:14So for that reason, I am out.
39:16But I wish you all the best.
39:18Thank you, Jenna.
39:20Harry and Connor.
39:23I love the fact that you are very knowledgeable.
39:29But today you've not convinced me to say this is an investable opportunity at 3.5%.
39:39For that reason, guys, I'm not going to invest in amounts.
39:43Thank you for your comments.
39:46I'm also going to tell you where I am.
39:48My fridge is full of this stuff.
39:50And I had a little bit of a thought on the brand club cultured, because I realized that all of
39:57the items that I have,
39:58the kimchi that I have in my fridge, looks authentic to its native country.
40:04And I think this has been branded as if it's a mass market product.
40:08But kimchi isn't quite there yet.
40:10So there's something about it looking authentic to its native country that has made it more compelling, that's made it
40:17look real, versus it looking like a rave.
40:21And I see a business that has historically lost money every single year, and is in decline from a revenue
40:28perspective.
40:30So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best.
40:32Cheers, Stephen. Thank you for your feedback.
40:36I actually completely disagree with Stephen.
40:39Ouch.
40:40Oddly, there are plenty of Korean-looking kimchi around.
40:45But the one that really has broken through isn't a Korean-looking kimchi.
40:50Yeah.
40:51It looks like a pickled product, you know, so it's sort of recognizable.
40:57And funnily enough, I think it's going to be more powerful to move it out of this,
41:02the sort of the shelf that is those things that other countries eat, and move them onto mainstream.
41:07Yeah.
41:07So it clearly looks like something that everybody should have in their fridge.
41:10I shouldn't be worrying, I shouldn't be thinking about whether or not it's good for my gut or not.
41:13I'm not buying it as a medicine, I'm buying it because it tastes great, and I want it in my
41:18fridge.
41:30The thing is, I do love your story, and I love where this has come from,
41:38and I think that will come through to the consumer, and that's, you know, that's really important.
41:44I think there's a problem, though.
41:48And the problem is, you only own 56% between the three of you.
41:53Um, who's your single biggest other shareholder?
41:57Uh, so two guys who come on previously.
42:01And what, so they own between them?
42:037% each.
42:04How much?
42:047% each.
42:057% each.
42:097% each.
42:09No, I can't, I'm gonna...
42:15I don't like, I don't like the whole pattern.
42:20And I see this pattern of what's going ahead, and this is how much cash you're going to need,
42:26versus how much equity you have already given away.
42:30Yeah.
42:31You are going to be diluted.
42:32I mean, I can do things that stops me being diluted, but that isn't fair either.
42:36That's not the type of business, that's not what I want to do.
42:38Um, so I...
42:40No.
42:40We always knew that we was going to be diluted.
42:41No, stop talking.
42:42I know what you're doing here.
42:43You're just keeping me talking, so that I don't go out.
42:46I know what you're doing.
42:46I think it's good to keep you talking.
42:49It is, actually.
42:49I'll give you that.
42:50But no, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, you're great.
42:53All I can do is tell you that is a really, really good product.
42:58And I will be a customer, but I won't be an investor.
43:01No worries.
43:01So, I'm out.
43:02Thank you very much.
43:03Thank you very much.
43:03Cheers, guys.
43:07Harry and Connor must leave the den empty-handed.
43:12She was tempted by their tempeh, but ultimately Deborah Meaden couldn't be persuaded to take a punt on the pickle
43:20-loving pair.
43:23That is what it is, aren't they?
43:25Still doing it.
43:26Still doing it.
43:26Cool shot.
43:28Obviously, we didn't get the deal like we hoped, but lots of great feedback.
43:33What's next for us is proving the dragons wrong and making them regret their decision.
43:54My name's Sam Beany, and my business is Kibu.
43:58While Kibu is a product that people have seen before, it's quite unique in how we're doing things.
44:05Oh, this looks fun.
44:07Headphones for kids, but I feel like there's something more unique to it than that.
44:11Is it interchangeable?
44:12Yeah.
44:13Build your own headphones.
44:15Build your own headphones.
44:17It's so great when kids get the product, and they get to try it, and their feedback is just...
44:23It really motivates you.
44:24It would be amazing to pitch in front of the dragons and show them what Kibu is all about.
44:36Hi, dragons.
44:37My name is Sam Beany, the founder of Kibu, the children's headphones you build, repair, recycle.
44:45And today, I'm seeking £65,000 in exchange for 10% equity in my business.
44:56Every year in the UK, over 18 million pairs of headphones and earbuds are thrown away.
45:01Most aren't easily fixed, especially not by kids.
45:05Yet kids are curious, capable, and love to build.
45:08So why do we keep designing tech that when it breaks, it gets binned?
45:12At Kibu, we're doing things differently.
45:15The Kibu headphones come as a simple kit that children or fun-loving adults can build themselves.
45:20No screws, no glue, no fiddly wires, just simple parts that snap together.
45:28Like that.
45:29And if a part breaks, you only need to replace that part, helping to reduce waste.
45:37Each pair is 3D printed in Hackney London in less than 30 minutes with our proprietary 3D printing code that
45:44doesn't compromise on speed or quality.
45:47The main material used is a recycled bioplastic that comes from plants like corn.
45:52And when the headphones reach the end of their life, the parts can be returned and recycled into new products.
45:57With your investment and experience, we can scale faster, develop new products, and shape a generation of builders, not just
46:06consumers.
46:10A kit for kids to make their own headphones is the offering from Sam Beeney.
46:15Lovely. Like my chosen colour. Thank you.
46:18It's got to be green.
46:19It's got to be green.
46:21He's seeking £65,000 for a 10% share in his business.
46:27Will Sam's sonic startup hit the right note with the dragons?
46:33Sam, super interesting. So what really is the crux of this business? Are they aspiring to be really good headphones?
46:39Or are they aspiring to be something that teaches kids how to build things and to have a bit of
46:43fun?
46:44Yeah, I mean, we obviously want them to be great headphones. But our main goal is not to compete with
46:50the big players when it comes to sound or things like that.
46:54Ultimately, we're trying to deliver an experience to children and families. You know, it's being able to build your headphones
46:58yourselves. And we hope that then when they break, kids are then more likely to want to repair it and
47:04see the headphones go through their life.
47:10And is it just you involved in the business at the moment? Or have you got a team?
47:13Yes, it's it's it's it's mainly me. But there's I have two main partners who are helping me some businesses
47:21rather that helping me so one is a 3d printing manufacturing company that I used to work for. And another
47:26is an award winning design agency.
47:29And what are the total sales? And when did you begin?
47:33So we did our Kickstarter in April last year. And our total sales are about £25,000 to date. Yeah,
47:45sold over 450 pairs.
47:49Sam, hi. So how much do they sell for?
47:52So we sell them for £39.
47:54OK, and what do they cost you to make?
47:57The cost is £10.40.
47:58OK.
48:00And at the moment, are you only on the crowdfund platform? Are you already selling into retail or direct to
48:08the consumer?
48:08Yes. So we're selling now. We're selling direct to consumers through our website. And we'd love to get into retail
48:15and really try and explore other avenues as well.
48:21So £40, that's expensive. You're limiting your market in retail, because of that price. I can't see this what I
48:31call it mainstream toy shops, really.
48:33OK. But I think, while the upfront price is slightly higher, the value over the long term, we were speaking
48:43to parents and they were having to replace their headphones like every year, or even less than that.
48:49Yeah, it may cost you more upfront, but if parts break, you know, there's this route here to fix it
48:55and make the headphones last longer.
48:58Sam, hi. I love it. Like, I really, really love it. I love, there's so many things I really like.
49:05I opened this up and I was like, oh my God, my inner child is so excited to build that,
49:10because it is doing exactly what you're trying to do.
49:12It's helping kids get creative, understand how to make inventions and, yeah, just really, really love it.
49:20A few questions. If I went onto your social channel now, what have you done so far on social? Like,
49:26if I'm looking at your Instagram, your TikTok, what am I seeing?
49:29So you're seeing mainly reels and posts showing the headphones, and then the sort of content that tends to be
49:37more popular, where the product is used. So, I guess this song kind of, for example.
49:45But we're trying to really get into that, you know, the organic engine, I guess, that reels and TikTok and
49:50stuff deliver.
49:50Has any of the content gone off? Like, have you got a lot of momentum?
49:53We've had posts that have, you know, done 50,000 kind of views, that sort of thing.
50:01But I think the challenge we have is the average number of times people are seeing that content needs to
50:07be six, seven times.
50:08They're seeing it once in this organic post, they think, oh, that's interesting.
50:11And we're not, because we don't have the capital yet, we can't, like, show it to them again and again
50:17and try and...
50:18You can. So this is why I'm asking. Yeah.
50:19Basically, you find, you've got a video with 50,000 views, you've got a video with 100,000 views, that's
50:24amazing.
50:25You've just got to keep creating more and more and more of that content.
50:27I build my home business to, like, five million, basically, off organic content. Like, you've got to keep going with
50:33it.
50:33Thank you, yeah, that's great. Advice like that, you know, that's what we really need.
50:40Sam. Hello. Hello.
50:43I started building computers when I was a teenager.
50:46I had no knowledge of it, but I loved it.
50:49Yeah.
50:50And I think this is something that kids would just love to do.
50:54So tell me about you. You work for this company.
50:57Yeah.
50:58Who are the company?
50:59It's a company called Batchworks, and they mass produce things using 3D printing.
51:03And you left them to start this business, or what?
51:05So it was really a collaboration, so they are an equity holder.
51:09Oh, okay.
51:10Along with a design agency, and we actually see that as a strength.
51:12How much do they own?
51:14They own 39%.
51:16Ooh, wow.
51:19And you own?
51:2133%.
51:23Ooh, that means there's somebody else in here.
51:25So, yeah, there's a design agency who own 20%.
51:29And who owns the other 8%?
51:30So we have a web developer who owns like 4%, and then there's 2.5% that's owned by a
51:39brand agency.
51:40And then I believe the rest is just a pool kind of left.
51:47This is an unusual situation, because you're not the majority shareholder.
51:52Yeah.
51:52And if you were to receive an offer in here today, presumably you've agreed with your majority shareholder what your
52:01parameters of an offer are.
52:04Yeah.
52:04Is that right?
52:05Yes.
52:05And would it be from a dilute, would everybody dilute, or does it come from your shareholding?
52:10Everyone's diluted equally.
52:11Everyone would dilute.
52:23All right, I'm going to tell you where I am.
52:26There is something that worries me about it, Sam.
52:28And I really like you.
52:30I think the design is really, really lovely.
52:34There's something that just isn't hitting the mark for me.
52:38You know, I don't like the structure of the business.
52:40I really do like to be talking to a majority shareholder.
52:43Yeah.
52:45Just because I like to get a feel of where they are in all of this, you know,
52:48and understand if you've got a decent order, how much priority that would get.
52:53There's loads of questions I'd like to ask a majority shareholder, but they're not here today.
52:57So I'm afraid I won't be investing.
52:59I'm out.
53:00Thank you, Deborah.
53:05Sam, I really, the minute I saw it and the minute you explained what it was,
53:09I really fell in love with the idea of it.
53:13But on a personal level, maybe because I don't have kids,
53:16Yeah.
53:18It hasn't personally resonated with me in the same way.
53:21So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I hope you're successful.
53:24Appreciate it.
53:28Sam, I would say where I am.
53:29Yeah.
53:29You are credible, right?
53:31And the product's great.
53:34However, this needs a lot of money.
53:37Yeah.
53:38I think you need a lot more than 65 to get this out there.
53:43So for that reason, I'm out.
53:45Thank you, Tika.
53:53I feel like I'm in the same place.
53:58Because it's just very difficult to find a way to monetize it.
54:06Have I missed something?
54:07Why you don't think it's monetizable, Peter?
54:11Have I missed the profit on the product or...?
54:13Yeah, the scale at the volume at £40.
54:16You think that's too expensive?
54:18It definitely is, yeah.
54:19I mean, these products to kids are £9.99.
54:22Yeah, but I think more parents are becoming...
54:25Are caring more and more about the products they give to their children.
54:28I get that, but that's a lot of cash to spend.
54:34Sam, I'll tell you where I'm at.
54:36So I've loved this from the start, and I do think there is something here.
54:42Because the thing is with kids, it's cult.
54:45It is word of mouth.
54:46And you get that right, it really, really works.
54:50What I'm brilliant at is building a brand that people want to buy into,
54:53regardless of what that product even is.
54:55And that's what I feel like I can help with.
54:57And I think if you're willing to work like really, really, really, really hard,
55:01like harder than you've ever worked to get this where it needs to be,
55:04this could be really huge.
55:07So I am going to make you an offer.
55:09You ask for £65,000 for 10%.
55:13My offer is going to be all of the money.
55:19But I want 15% of the business.
55:23OK, thank you very much.
55:28Yes, Sam.
55:32I think Jenna's given you a really, really good offer,
55:36given the structure at 15%.
55:39But that's going to be tough for me,
55:42because I think you're going to need a lot of work here
55:46and a lot of money to make this business a success.
55:49Yeah.
55:52Obviously, equity is important and it matters.
55:54But I think having a small part of a big thing
55:56is better than a big part of nothing.
56:00Peter, what about we share?
56:03Would you consider that?
56:09Yeah, I would consider that.
56:14I'll tell you what, I think I'm going to do two things.
56:16I'm going to give you an offer of all of the money,
56:20$65,000 for 20% of the business,
56:27or I would be willing to share it with Jenna
56:30and give you half the money for 10%.
56:33So I'd have 10%, Jenna would have 10%,
56:36because I think I would have to do so much work
56:38and Jenna brings so much to this party.
56:47OK.
56:49I think, yeah, I'd love to have both of you on board.
56:51That'd be all.
56:52Yes!
56:55Well done.
56:56Well done.
56:57Yeah, it was great. Well done.
56:58Well done.
56:59Well done.
56:59Yeah, fantastic. Well done.
57:02Appreciate it.
57:04Success for Sam,
57:06who secures the backing of two dragons,
57:09who will help ensure his product makes waves
57:12in the world of children's headphones.
57:14I didn't quite expect to get one dragon, let alone two.
57:18It's just, you know, amazing.
57:20We're in business together.
57:22Yes, I think it could be really, really exciting.
57:26Really good.
57:27OK, I need to go and plug in.
57:29Does he look like a Cyberman?
57:31You don't watch Doctor Who, do you?
57:33He looks like a Cyberman.
57:34Yeah, I definitely don't think they fit.
57:44Good luck.
57:45Next time.
57:46That one definitely isn't rubbish.
57:47You're on fire with your puns, Peter.
57:50I couldn't agree less with Susie.
57:52Oh, really?
57:53This is going to be ridiculous.
57:54I just know it's going to be ridiculous.
57:55I'm not looking forward to your questions,
57:57but I'm here now.
57:58Oh, my...
57:59What?
58:00I know.
58:01I'll come and cry on your shoulder later.
58:04I have no idea why I'm engaging in this.
58:05I hate this game.
58:06Yeah.
58:34I'm not seeing you.
58:34You don't like that yet.
58:36You're on fire.
58:36I'm not listing anything else.
58:36In school days, by the way inств Arts P�les.
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