CTP (20260226 S3EFebSpecial9) Dawn Stephens: Pot As Metaphors Lessons BTS/SP video

Joseph M. Lenard

CTP (S3EFebSpecial9) Purpose Is Grown, Not Held Exploring more of the fascinating intersection of Activism, Community Engagement, Faith / Religion, Human Nature, Politics, Social Issues, and beyond    We trade career labels for deeper identity as Dawn Stevens shares how losing a dream role led to a life of growing and giving the Fruits of the Spirit. Her vessel stories—Little Pot, Teapot, Oil Lamp, and the cracked jar—turn pressure into purpose and service. • early life, teaching start, and motherhood tension • fear of sales and breakthrough at a Christian publisher • division closure and the shift from holding to growing • Little Pot metaphor for identity and fruit of the Spirit • Teapot and pouring gifts into others • Oil Lamp, burnout, and faithful light • cracked jar, community, and refueling grace • jealousy, comparison, and keeping identity in Christ • practical ways to serve with your shape and season https://tinyurl.com/SubscribeToCTP   CTP Audios: https://tinyurl.com/CTPonBuzzsprout  CTP Videos: https://tinyurl.com/JLDonBITCHUTE  https://tinyurl.com/CTPgear

Transcript

00:00Hello, welcome to another episode of Perstitutionalist Podcast.

00:06I am your host, Joseph M. Leonard.

00:09That's L-E-N-A-R-D, it's the French, it's not, it's Leonard without an O.

00:17Thank you for tuning in, as Graham Norton used to say, on his show.

00:24Let's get on with the show!

00:26Hello! Special segment for February and March, mid-week drops.

00:35Normally Saturday monologues and normally a guest appearance on a Wednesday.

00:42February and March, two a week, Tuesday and Thursdays,

00:46in order to get caught up on some interviews that have been stacking up. Enjoy.

00:53Going to join me today is Dawn Stevens, it's pronounced that right, not Stephens?

01:02It is Stevens, yes.

01:04Yeah, it is spelled, though, S-T-E-P-H-E-N-S, so Dawn Stevens, and as I joked

01:13with her,

01:14we found each other via the pod match system, and I joked with her, reading verbatim,

01:22hey, as long as you could deal with my lame puns like I will not be able to resist,

01:29better to be a fruit pot than a fruit cake, I think we'll be able to have a great fun

01:35conversation.

01:37Welcome to the show, Dawn. How are you?

01:40Thanks so much.

01:41Yeah, well, before we get into the, well, why would I say that to her?

01:49Let's do the proverbial Christian show, another pun, right? Proverbs, proverbial first question.

01:57Where were you born and raised?

01:59Were you now significant places?

02:02You may have been in between.

02:04How much time did you spend in prison and for what?

02:08There you go.

02:11For the benefit of the transcript, she's laughing. These are jokes, people.

02:17Well, born and raised near Cleveland, Ohio, so not far from Detroit.

02:22There you go.

02:23Cleveland sucks. I mean rocks.

02:26Yeah, yeah. Well, left there at 18 and never went back.

02:32So, lived a long time in Virginia, near Virginia Beach area, and then right now I'm living in Raleigh, North

02:40Carolina.

02:41So, that's my new home, and yeah, I love it.

02:47Yeah, Virginia Beach. So, another pun, of course, life's a beach, right?

02:53There you go. Yes. Well, I love the beach, but I think I like the mountains more.

02:57So, you know, in Raleigh, we're right in the middle of both. So, it's a great place.

03:04I've been to Raleigh, but only once, caught a Carolina Hurricanes game there.

03:10Yeah, I'm a huge hurricane fan.

03:13Yeah, I forget who they played, but yeah, I used to work for Kmart headquarters, an IT guy.

03:21So, I'd go out all around the country to our various warehouse distribution centers, is the word I'm looking for,

03:34and, you know, work with the computers and whatnot.

03:37And, yeah, you mentioned mountains. One of my favorite opportunities was while out in, outside of Denver, I forget now,

03:51because I haven't, I've been on disability since 2004, so I haven't worked for Kmart for a couple decades now.

04:03So, I forget where that distribution center was, but it was close enough to Denver that, while there over the

04:12weekend, drove up into the Rockies.

04:15Oh, so nice to be able to do that. And, indeed, you know, it was warm weather when I was

04:22there, but, of course, as I drew closer to the top of the Rockies, it was snowing.

04:28Yep, sounds right.

04:30It's an eco-environment. It depends on what part of the mountain you're on, what weather you get, yes?

04:38Yes, very much.

04:40Anyway, you're not here to talk geography.

04:47Just going to let you explain the pot, the fruit pots, and, indeed, why you are here.

04:55All right.

04:56Go ahead.

04:57I will happily explain it.

05:00So, Joseph, I am a fruit pot.

05:04That's what I tell people when they say, what do you do?

05:07No, not a teapot.

05:09I'm a little teapot, Jordan.

05:11Well, there is a teapot, too.

05:14I've been the teapot.

05:15I'll explain all that.

05:17But, basically, I spent my whole life searching for purpose.

05:21You know, why did God make me?

05:23I mean, I grew up a Christian, and I knew that...

05:26And this show is about that.

05:28Yes, perfect.

05:28Yeah, I just really...

05:30And maybe it was partly being a girl growing up in the 70s and 80s, you know, after the

05:35women's lib movement.

05:37We were...

05:38We had so much push on us that you can be anything, you know?

05:42Yeah.

05:42I was hoping to you, and that was really a lot of pressure.

05:45First wave feminism is way different than, like, the fifth wave today, so...

05:50So much.

05:51People don't realize the pressure that we had on us.

05:54And so, I just had really felt that whatever job I chose or the career path that I chose

06:01would define me, would be my identity.

06:04And God had to really work through that idea in me, and he used it to show me that, you

06:13know, my identity is in him.

06:15So, I went through this process trying to figure out who I am.

06:21I pretty much told God, I'll be anything except this, you know?

06:26And the first thing I told him I would never be was a schoolteacher, because I got in a

06:31lot of trouble at school.

06:32I like to draw pictures.

06:34I like to write stories.

06:35And I did them in the wrong place, you know?

06:38So, I would often write on, you know, draw pictures all over test papers.

06:42And so, I just decided I didn't want to be a schoolteacher, because I didn't like school.

06:46You didn't want to put up with kids like you.

06:49Well, right.

06:50Or, you know, but when I graduated from high school and went to visit my sister at a college,

06:57still not knowing who I was or what I would be, her roommate came in and laid a poster

07:03board down, started to draw pictures on it.

07:05And right away, I decided, whatever your major is, that's what I'm going to be.

07:09Done.

07:10Decided.

07:11I can't figure this out.

07:12And of course, she was an elementary ed major.

07:16So, I went to school and became a schoolteacher and realized that I was gifted at it.

07:23I loved it.

07:24I thought, this is what I was created to do.

07:27God had given me this gift.

07:28And I was so happy.

07:31I had children of my own at the same time.

07:33And then I was really struggling being 100% mom and 100% teacher.

07:37And so, because I couldn't stop being a mom, I stopped being a teacher.

07:43And then I found myself really empty and unfulfilled again.

07:47Being a mom has to be part teacher, though, really.

07:51It was.

07:52And it should have been enough because moms are wonderful people.

07:56But I think partly because of my upbringing and the idea that I would need a career to

08:02be someone, I felt unfulfilled.

08:05I felt like there was more that God had for me.

08:08And so, during that time, I started running an online business.

08:12These are the dot-com days.

08:14And I began doing that.

08:18And the only part, I was having fun doing it, taking care of my kids and running a business.

08:24But were you one of those who created a dot-com that went to a million-dollar value, then

08:31back to zero?

08:33Yeah.

08:34If so, I wouldn't be sitting here today.

08:37Because the one part of the business I was terrible at was selling.

08:42Didn't make a whole lot of money.

08:44So, as my children got older, my husband then decided, you know, why don't you really go

08:49out and look for another job?

08:50Like, maybe this isn't it.

08:51And so, I then told God, okay, I'll do anything except, of course, be a salesperson, because

08:58we both know I can't sell.

09:00And that's when I met some people from the world's largest Christian publishing company.

09:06And man, I was really excited to talk to them.

09:09I thought, oh, I'm going to, you know, write stories, illustrate, draw pictures.

09:13This is what I've dreamed of doing my whole life.

09:15I told them, I'll take the job that you have.

09:18I'll take it.

09:18I can't wait to work for you.

09:20And so, they hired me.

09:21And my new position was sales.

09:26So, once again, I'm doing the one thing I told God, I'll do anything but.

09:30And I'm now tasked to sell their books to schools.

09:37And because I had been a teacher, I knew how to write lesson plans.

09:41I knew how to create materials.

09:43So, I started doing that.

09:45You were able to make, do what you know.

09:50I was selling more books than anybody in the company.

09:52And I quickly got promoted.

09:54I was the head of this whole division that sold books to schools.

09:58We ran like a little Christian book fair type thing.

10:02They were a Christian publishing company.

10:04And I thought.

10:05Go ahead.

10:06Go ahead.

10:06Name them.

10:08Thomas Nelson.

10:09Okay.

10:11Doesn't have to be a secret.

10:13Yeah.

10:13This is the early 2000s.

10:16But at this point, I thought this is what I was created to do, right?

10:21Like, this is my dream job.

10:23I'm making a lot of money.

10:24I'm doing everything God has tasked me to do.

10:28And I absolutely love, you know, this job.

10:32And about four years in, the company closed the whole division.

10:37They fired the 25 reps that worked under me.

10:40And they called me up.

10:41And they said, you know, your position no longer exists.

10:45So, at that moment, I just got really kind of angry at God.

10:50I'm like, I don't know who I am.

10:51I have no idea what you've created me to do.

10:55I feel like I've, everything you've given me to hold, I've done with all my might.

11:00And that's when he pretty much said to me, Dawn, you need to stop defining yourself by

11:06what you hold and start defining yourself by what you grow.

11:11So, it was through that whole experience that I wrote this children's book called The Little

11:17Pot.

11:18And Little Pot goes through this journey where, yeah, not that pot, like a clay pot.

11:26Not a little bit of pot to smoke.

11:29Yeah, I know.

11:30A little pot made of pottery.

11:32Yeah.

11:33Yes.

11:33Because he's the potter.

11:35And he's made each of us.

11:37So, we're on this little clay vessel.

11:40And the first thing that the potter does in the story is he puts papers inside Little Pot.

11:45And Little Pot thinks he's supposed to be smart because he's holding papers.

11:50But then the potter makes another vessel and he takes the papers away from him and puts them

11:54in that other vessel.

11:56And Little Pot is empty, unfulfilled.

11:58The next thing the potter does is fill this little vessel with coins.

12:03And now the pot believes, I'm supposed to be rich.

12:06This is great.

12:07Like, who doesn't want to be a coin pot, right?

12:11But then the potter makes a vessel that's shaped like a pig, a piggy bank.

12:15And he takes all of Little Pot's coins and he puts them in that vessel.

12:19Little Pot is empty again.

12:21And then the potter fills him with dirt and he does not want to be a dirt pot.

12:26But he gets a seed and something starts to grow and he thinks, oh, I know, because he

12:31got ahead of the potter, which I did my whole life.

12:34He says, I'm going to be a flower pot.

12:36I'm going to grow beautiful flowers.

12:38And my purpose may not be smart or rich, but at least I look good, right?

12:43He's going to be a flower pot.

12:45And so he does, he grows flowers, but then he wakes up one day and his flowers are changing

12:50and turning hard and green and they're not very pretty anymore.

12:53And what's happening is they're turning to strawberries because he is a fruit pot.

12:59And that's where the potter explains to him, you're not a paper pot or a coin pot or a flower

13:05pot.

13:05You are a fruit pot.

13:07And it was at that point in my life after I lost the job from Thomas Nelson that I realized

13:15I need to just focus on being a vessel that can produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit,

13:22which, you know, is love, joy, peace, patience.

13:24And so that's, that's why I tell people I'm a fruit pot.

13:28Like it really doesn't matter what happens where I work or what I do as a career or, you

13:36know, if I'm a mom, if I'm not a mom, if I'm married, if I'm not married, can I just,

13:41I just need to be that vessel that the Holy Spirit can grow his fruit through.

13:47And so that's, that became my focus.

13:50Once that happened, God called me to be a school principal.

13:53I started trying to produce love and joy and peace there.

13:58And that's where we developed chaos.

14:00Yeah.

14:01But, you know, it was through those experiences that we actually talked about the teapot.

14:05We wrote a second book called the teapot, where we helped kids understand that the fruit

14:10they grow is not for themselves.

14:13They need to serve others with it.

14:15And so they pour into others and the teapot helps little pot discover to give his fruit

14:20away.

14:21So he has to pour his tea out.

14:23And then we went on to write a third book about an oil lamp that helped kids learn to

14:28shine and tell their God stories with others.

14:31And my last book that I've written is about a small jar with a crack in it that refuels

14:38oil lamp because I got through some burnout with help from other people.

14:45So, yeah, it's just been a fun journey of, you know, using what God has been doing in

14:51my life and telling it through stories.

14:54And now I share those stories a lot at women's conferences.

14:57I go and speak to adults.

15:00Honestly, you know, we resonate with it, I think, even more than kids do.

15:04Yeah.

15:05And hence my better to be a fruit pot than a fruitcake joke.

15:10And I'm loving this.

15:12I don't, a little behind the scenes, I don't not research my guests because I'm lazy, but

15:20I'm a little lazy, but I purposely don't want to know a lot about the guests because I discover

15:30you just as the audience discovers you fresh and new and we go flow with the go, right?

15:38Whatever rabbit holes open.

15:39So, yeah, all these lessons, kids need to learn and unfortunately usually don't get.

15:50And this is a great series.

15:53I love this concept.

15:55Absolutely.

15:56Oh, and the other thing is that my OCD brain and the lame puns.

16:00You mentioned patients.

16:03I don't have any because I don't have a medical degree.

16:07But I'm pumped.

16:10Different kind of patients.

16:12There you go.

16:12Yep.

16:13Word play.

16:19Anyway, I didn't have anywhere to go with that.

16:23It's just I can't resist the lame puns.

16:30So, is there a fifth book on the horizon?

16:34Well, yes.

16:36Um, I actually have it done and it's in the illustration process.

16:40I've just haven't had time to work on it, but it is, um, about a black kettle and it's

16:47a black kettle that calls the teapot black.

16:50Um, and so it plays with that pun.

16:54Uh-oh, I love that.

16:58Yeah.

16:58It deals with jealousy and, you know, comparisons that we do with other people because I think

17:05in our world today, I mean, I even struggle with it.

17:07I was on Facebook scrolling just this past week and saw a friend who was getting the accolades

17:14that I wanted.

17:15And I was like, oh, you know, and then you just go to bed feeling like I'm not doing enough

17:20or I'm not enough.

17:21Again, it's, it goes back to that identity, doesn't it?

17:25Like everything we do, we define ourselves by.

17:28And it's so hard to keep our identity in Christ alone.

17:36Yeah, measuring up to the standards of above versus our own in this fallen world and the

17:45social, cultural pressures and economics of needing to earn a living to get by and all

17:54that.

17:54Yeah, I mean, this world puts a lot of pressures on us that are unfortunate.

18:03And indeed, as you said, it's hard to, at times, I've got to show a listener feedback

18:11one actually with Judy Bierman discussing self-reflection.

18:16And indeed, it's going into the bathroom and looking in that mirror and determining us as

18:23being adequate enough for what we can do, what we could do, fitting into this fallen world.

18:34I don't know where I'm going with that either.

18:37I'm not always as articulate.

18:39If I had a month to write it out for a book, I could get it right.

18:44But yeah, sometimes I struggle to articulately say what the hell I'm trying to get across.

18:52But I think you know what I mean.

18:54That's why I write children's books.

18:56You know, you only get about seven, eight hundred words and you got to get it out.

19:00A lot of pictures, right?

19:01Yeah, it's like movies.

19:04You have the thematic score.

19:07You have the music to help set mood.

19:11Exactly.

19:12Exactly.

19:12With books, you can use less words than the old adage.

19:16Picture's worth a thousand words.

19:18And indeed, a lot of times it is.

19:20For real.

19:21So much.

19:23Yes.

19:24But a picture, looks, can be deceiving.

19:29Back to kind of what you were saying, Martin Luther King Jr., right?

19:33Content of character.

19:34We need to get past first appearances and first impressions.

19:39They can be wrong.

19:41We're all entitled to bad days, right?

19:44You meet someone on the street, seem like a snarly SOB.

19:50But they might be the best, fun-loving, great person you would ever meet.

19:56But that day.

19:57So that's where second chances and grace has to come in.

20:01You work that into this book?

20:05You know, that's such an interesting thing you bring up.

20:08Because I recently just have been through a class dealing with grace.

20:13Which has helped me so much in how I look at others and see others.

20:17I think they all have a little bit of that element in there.

20:21Especially the potter's grace on the vessels.

20:24One of Teapot's big issues in that book is that he's surrounded by these cute little teacups that all look

20:31the same.

20:32In fact, when the potter's making him, he makes them in pieces as a potter does.

20:38Like, there's the spout and the lid and the bowl are all separate.

20:43And he's the bowl looking at the spout going, well, that's ugly.

20:47And looking at the lid going, what's that?

20:50That can't hold anything.

20:51What's a stupid bowl on top?

20:53And then the next day, the potter gives it to him.

20:56And he becomes the thing that he, you know.

20:59And then he's constantly looking at the teacups thinking, I'm so awkward looking.

21:05I have this big nose.

21:06I have this silly hat.

21:08And then throughout the book, when he realizes that he can serve the potter with his spout and his hat

21:17or lid keeps the tea warm, that it has purpose.

21:21He's grateful for it.

21:23And he realizes, you know.

21:25But all throughout that, you see the potter's grace with him, even with teapot, because teapot gets, or little pot

21:33gets convinced to keep his strawberries.

21:35And, you know, the potter prunes him in the story as God prunes us at times.

21:40But we see, we see God's grace.

21:43Yeah.

21:44You want to be pruned, not be a prude.

21:48There you go.

21:49Again, wordplay puns again.

21:51I can't with this.

21:52There you go.

21:55It can be painful, but it's healthy.

21:57It's good.

21:58That's right.

21:59Right.

22:00Exactly.

22:01Yeah, there's great analogies here or metaphors.

22:05But as I like to joke, and in fact, I finally got around it and said it in, no, I

22:12don't think it was Book of Kennedy.

22:13I think it was, I'm trying to grab it, a short story, a lasting legacy.

22:20I'm too clever for metaphors.

22:23I use meta-sixes.

22:25Huh?

22:26Ba-dum-bum.

22:27There you go.

22:29Again, at any rate.

22:31Well, I like to keep my shows kind of short, but I think we've covered a lot of great ground

22:41here at a larger 30,000-foot level.

22:47What is a website for people to find you, your books, reach out to you, that sort of thing?

22:53So I would love them to come visit me online.

22:57I am Dawn Stevens Books, D-A-W-N-S-T-E-P-H-E-N-S-B-O-O

23:06-K-S dot com.

23:08And on that website, you can read about all the different vessels.

23:12You can purchase the books.

23:14You can hear a talk that I give and contact me for speaking engagements.

23:20I also, on the side, run a publishing company.

23:24So if there's anyone interested in having a book published or learning about self-publishing, you can contact me there.

23:33I will happily help with that.

23:36I also have How to Write a Book and Get It Published, Tips and Techniques.

23:40There you go.

23:41Yeah.

23:42It's not easy.

23:43It's not an easy process.

23:44No, no, not.

23:45But those of us, it's odd because those of us who are authors, you would think wouldn't want more competition.

23:53But generally, we're all the opposite.

23:56We want others to write the books we know are in them.

24:01We all do.

24:02We all do.

24:03And you know what?

24:04Publishing it might be a little easier than selling it, right?

24:07Because we're back to that sale.

24:09Oh, wow.

24:10Yep.

24:11Oh, two different animals there.

24:14Yes.

24:14And I'm going to close with one more word play, right?

24:19Because we're talking vessels.

24:21We're not talking shipping containers on a boat across the ocean.

24:25No.

24:26Grammarly always wants me to substitute my words with the ship.

24:30And I'm like, that's not a ship.

24:32It's a piece of pottery.

24:36I had no idea that would lead to something good as authors and publishers.

24:44Yeah.

24:45Grammarly.

24:46Absolutely.

24:47Yeah.

24:47Even Microsoft Word check, spell check in that.

24:52Yeah.

24:52Exactly.

24:54It wants to change your vessel to a ship, which would be inappropriate.

24:59But if you put T-O rather than T-O-O or T-W-O, oh, it doesn't pay any

25:07attention to that.

25:08It's clearly grammatically not what you meant there to warn you to change that.

25:15Yeah.

25:16Yeah.

25:17Anyway, it was a blast talking to you, Dawn Stevens.

25:21Thank you for stopping by.

25:23Take care.

25:23God bless.

25:24All right.

25:25Bye-bye.

25:26Like and subscribe to the Constitutionalist Politics Podcast and share episodes.

25:33We need your help.

25:35Thank you for having tuned into another Constitutionalist Podcast show.

25:42I really appreciate that you stopped by.

25:46Again, please like, share, subscribe.

25:50We need you to help spread the Constitutionalist movement.

25:55Thank you again.

25:57Take care.

25:58God bless.

25:59Love you all.

26:01Bye-bye.

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