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How much does Sam Darnold’s career arc encourage you about C.J. Stroud and the idea of a quarterback bouncing back after adversity? ITL debates whether Darnold’s path offers real hope and perspective for C.J.’s future.
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00:00Jonathan Alexander for the Chronicle.
00:02One of the things I forgot about his particular lore is that he came from the Charlotte Observer.
00:07He worked at Charlotte where he also covered Sam Darnold.
00:10And this is something that we talked about as one of our lessons yesterday at this time.
00:14Actually, I brought up the idea that, hey, a quarterback can play within themselves and play incredible.
00:20And a quarterback that has had, you know, issues in the past can redeem themselves to play that level of football in these types of stakes.
00:27And so Jonathan seemingly in that same vein wrote a piece about how, according to the headline,
00:35from Seeing Ghosts to Super Bowl, why Sam Darnold's ride should provide hope for C.J. Stroud.
00:40So I wanted to start with the question of does Sam Darnold's trajectory, does his rise give you hope,
00:46give you encouragement about C.J. Stroud, 713-572-472?
00:50I actually don't see how it can't, cannot, just because, you know, Darnold's head is strong.
00:56By the way, you know, he got shipped.
00:58He got shipped out of Minnesota because of similar struggles.
01:02Maybe not as.
01:03Yeah, not nearly as robust.
01:05But he did turn a little bit into a pumpkin in the fast final few games of his tenure in Minnesota.
01:11You know, the comparison is kind of eerie, you know, because like, well, that's about as far as we can go with him.
01:16You know, he didn't get it done in the postseason.
01:18And then what happened, you know, another great season, another, you know, a terrific, you know,
01:24maybe the best game of his life to get his team to the Super Bowl.
01:28Absolutely, it gives you hope.
01:29The thing that you have to sort of, you know, take into account is what changed for him.
01:36And I feel bad because I'm kind of beating this drum like crazy.
01:39You know, like you have to, the Texans have to bend a little bit when it comes to what they're doing offensively.
01:43But I really just feel that, like, he had Clint Kubiak, you know, Clint Kubiak, you know, all of a sudden.
01:50And before that, he had Kevin O'Connell.
01:51Well, and O'Connell's great.
01:52Don't get me wrong.
01:53I love Kevin O'Connell.
01:54I think anybody that has coached for him is going to be a good coach.
01:57But nevertheless, the organization felt that there was a sort of stagnation there, you know,
02:02and he paused his development, and then it came a little higher.
02:06There has to be a good comparison.
02:07Yeah, and I was there, and I think I largely am there.
02:10But I think the question, I'll try and play the role of devil's advocate to kind of throw some of these things up.
02:15And sometimes the text line will do that as well.
02:17From 713, CJ isn't smart.
02:19He definitely doesn't give me hope.
02:21Ah, that, I don't like that as your analysis there.
02:26I mean, you're obviously within your right to believe that.
02:28But, yeah, I don't.
02:29How do you know?
02:30I don't lean into that perspective.
02:32And I guess people will go back to the, what was the S2 cognition test was done there.
02:36Which was immediately dispelled.
02:37Yeah, you've seen a number of people all across the sports landscape, the NFL landscape,
02:42say that, yeah, we don't lean into, we don't read into those things in the way that they try and make it seem that we do.
02:48But if to play devil's advocate, I think one of the things that you definitely have to bring up immediately is the time difference.
02:54This is a 2018 number three overall draft pick in Sam Darnold.
03:00And maybe you could say that you saw some of that turnaround two or three seasons ago when he was in San Francisco.
03:05But he had to go to Carolina where once that run game fell off because Christian McCaffrey, funny enough, against the Texans gets hurt.
03:12Yeah.
03:12He becomes less of a capable quarterback.
03:15He goes and becomes a backup in San Francisco in that Shanahan, Kubiak-style offense.
03:21And you start to see he came in and he played one of those games behind, was that Garoppolo still?
03:27And you saw, oh, look, there's, or it might have been Purdy.
03:29You see, oh, okay, there's some stuff here, right?
03:32Like there's some rehabilitation, but to what degree?
03:36Then he goes to Minnesota and you see, oh, this is a larger degree, but is it sustainable?
03:40And now you see him in Seattle showing that sustainability.
03:43There was a process of time.
03:45And for Texans fans, I imagine we go, don't want to wait three, four years.
03:49Yeah.
03:49And we don't want, we don't want to see that all the chances that are necessary to get there.
03:53No, you can't.
03:55This defense is not going to be this for four seasons.
03:58I don't think that's a fair thing to say.
03:59Well, and contractually they can't wait.
04:00No, they can't to make that decision.
04:02That's also a great point.
04:03Yeah.
04:03So it definitely took time.
04:04There was different stops.
04:05Although I do wonder, do you think that the stops were necessary?
04:09And how much do you think the times were necessary for Sam Darnold to find that rejuvenation?
04:13I think they're necessary for a lot of quarterbacks.
04:14Sam Darnold is not the only one that has seen some, you know, has seen some, some growth
04:20that was really, I mean, hell, Baker Mayfield, you know, Baker Mayfield's another one.
04:24And, and he's, he slings it, you know, he makes plays and on and on and on the list goes.
04:30You know, I think there's a lot of quarterbacks that at a certain age and a certain level of
04:34maturity and you have to remind yourself, because it seems like he's been here for a while now.
04:39CJ Stroud is still 24.
04:41You know, he's still just 24.
04:43And, and so is, how old is Bo Nix again?
04:46No, no.
04:46There are exceptions.
04:47I mean, man, it's 37 years old.
04:49Yeah.
04:50Look at just 25.
04:50No, my point being, there's dudes that are relatively young within the, within the NFL
04:55that also are either same, similar age or also older, right?
04:58Yeah.
04:59No, but I think people sort of mature in an NFL way at different speeds.
05:05And I'm kind of thinking about this.
05:07I'm kind of just going to say this out loud as I'm thinking about it more as a question.
05:11So I could be dead wrong.
05:12No, but this is what we do.
05:13We talk it out.
05:14Yeah.
05:14It's just sort of a stream of consciousness here.
05:16Uh, I'm, I'm sort of thinking, I think there's a difference between being will, well liked and being a great teammate.
05:24I think there's a difference there.
05:26CJ Stroud is very well liked by his teammates, by, by all, you know, by all accounts that we know anyway.
05:32But is he the great teammate that Sam Tarnold has become, you know, in Seattle?
05:38Would you, would you disagree with that?
05:39Cause I think a great teammate like Tarnold with, with the difference, well, with the injuries and, and, and sort of, you know, he's talking about his post game this past weekend, talking about how he had to go through this personal growth as a teammate.
05:51And that's what kind of made me think about it, um, and get, and get better at it.
05:55I think you can all be well liked, but does that make you the best for what you're doing?
06:00And really what made me think about it is, you know, what we talked about earlier, he's kind of got to get over himself and just, you know, buy in and project as the leader of this team.
06:11This is how we're going to win.
06:13And I'm all in, you know what I mean?
06:14Cause he's well liked, but he's not making that he's not projecting that.
06:17But do you think it's still a little too early with that?
06:20Maybe with CJ, because Sam, I don't know.
06:21He did have to go through a couple of different teams.
06:24And he was being out of New York, being benched and shipped off and, uh, uh, be quarterback number two or three, whatever you want to call it for him to get to that point.
06:34And I'm really just kind of, like I said, thinking and saying it at the same time, Reggie, I don't, I don't have any doubt.
06:40Those guys love him.
06:41I mean, just, you know, just go down his teammates, but does that mean that he's projecting the buy-in that he needs to project the team, you know, the team first mentality that he needs, he needs to project.
06:52I don't know.
06:52I'm just kind of spitballing here.
06:53Yeah.
06:54I think that's, that's an interesting question.
06:56And that's, I think that these are the types of things that CJ definitely has to stop, stop down and think about is how do you maximize your side of this?
07:02Cause I think that there's another part of this with the Sam Darnold comparison, uh, for him is there was a lot of personal growth.
07:10Um, again, he was talking about, as you mentioned that he's talked about that he had to undertake within himself, right?
07:15The dude who came from USC and honestly had those turnover concerns there as well, but goes to the jets, has to go to the Carolina Panthers, has to become a backup and be comfortable with being a backup and take the opportunity to learn.
07:27And again, these are questions of, and we asked the question, is that necessary?
07:31Well, maybe, maybe not, but what definitely would make it, if, if it isn't necessary, that means that you definitely need to do undertake the work so that you don't have to have something externally.
07:41As a catalyst, you don't have to have something else externally jumpstart you creating that you need to do that internally.
07:47So this is going to be even more so important that CJ Stroud within himself and the organization around him makes some of those changes, uh, and, and addresses these things in such a way for him to jumpstart it and get himself on the right path.
07:59See, it's, I think it's kind of a tough conversation too, because, because even talking about Sam Darnold, he had to go through these other teams to get to where he's at right now.
08:09Sure. And unless the Texans decide to just blow up this whole office and staff and just bring in something totally different to try to change CJ, it seemed like the only option would be, I mean, if we want CJ to be better is they have to ship him off somewhere else and he got to be a journeyman and just kind of, because that's Sam, I mean, all the quarterbacks you named, they had to go through that.
08:32Baker Mayfield had to go through that. Sam Darnold had to go through that. Other quarterbacks had to go through that.
08:39Do you, I mean, is it, I'm kind of spitballing too at this point. Is it any example where you had a quarterback that had a good year, the first year kind of struggled the next couple of years and then eventually get back to where he was before?
08:52Yeah. Like, is it a good ending to this story where he could come back and be the, on the same team? Yeah. On the same team. Yeah. That's a great question.
09:01I know we kind of spitballing or whatever, but. Yeah. That's a great question.
09:05Because otherwise the ending to this book is going to be, you know, him going to a couple of different teams and getting with a good coach.
09:12Yeah. Well, we got a million texts coming in on that, that whole point about, you know, well-liked versus good teammate, you know, and, and, and projecting the right things.
09:20Uh, it does seem like there, there might be something there. And, and I think you got me, you got me a little scared there.
09:26Probably. Honestly.
09:27But that, this is all, it's worth being honest about. Are you, is there encouragement there?
09:31Because I think.
09:32Very many people, there's enough people.
09:33And does he need to.
09:34You could probably look at Trevor Lawrence, to be honest.
09:36Yeah.
09:37That's somebody that kind of came in, didn't really have that, um, that, what we thought he was going to be coming out of college.
09:43Yeah.
09:44And this year was the first year we, we were like, oh yeah, he kind of turned it around. We can have found something.
09:50And a good name that comes in on the text line. Now there's, there's a difference here. So maybe, or maybe you don't see it as a distinction. Peyton Manning was a dude who absolutely grew.
09:58But that's the reverse of what Figgy said.
10:01He started off.
10:02Yeah, he was terrible.
10:03Yeah.
10:03He was terrible.
10:03As opposed to being really good.
10:04But I mean, the point being.
10:05But he didn't grow.
10:06And he was, he was, it wasn't like just this rookie. He was bad. He was really bad for an extended period of time. And then there was a level of growth.
10:12Some of which that he gets Pep Hamilton a lot of credit for, which, which points me to one of the things that I was looking at was with Sam Darnold.
10:18We talk about him having to go to different places, but how much of that was the circumstances in the organization that he was in?
10:23Well, how much of it here is circumstances?
10:26And not to say that, okay, there's no, there's zero talent. Cause I don't want to do that.
10:30No, I'm talking about just offensive concepts.
10:32You know, but concepts and sure, sure. Cause I'm, I look at the Jets team that, uh, that Sam Darnold comes into.
10:36Are you familiar with a Jeremy Bates?
10:39That was the offensive coordinator, his first year, uh, with the Jets, his offensive coordinator, his year, the Sam Darnold 2021, where he was with the Panthers.
10:48First, uh, that year was Joe Brady at the start of it, but he got fired mid season.
10:53So there's a change that happens there.
10:55And then we know who was offensive coordinator, at least who the play caller was when he got to, you know, actually it was Matt.
11:01Matt rule was probably more, uh, there as well.
11:04But when he gets to San Francisco, we know Kyle Shanahan.
11:06And that's where you start, where you see some development.
11:08How much of it also is having, having that right leadership and molding there to be able to coach him and get him to the right place.
11:14Ultimately, that's what we're talking about.
11:15Right.
11:15I mean, ultimately that's what it comes down to.
11:17Uh, we, we, we see it right now.
11:19We see it right happening today.
11:20You know, they fired a very successful coach in Buffalo, uh, and they bring it in the same guy that was there, Joe Brady, because of that connection that they feel they have with Josh Allen and Joe Brady.
11:30So look, I think that there is some level of encouragement in that you can see a quarterback who has talent, who looks like he should have been on the discard pile, who ultimately is now on the top of the sports, uh, you know, the sports biggest spade, biggest stage.
11:45Rather.
11:45Yeah.
11:46But there, it's not, it's not full, you know, unicorns and rainbows.
11:51There was some real work and there was some real time that complicates it.
11:55And it, it really depends on if they're going to be able to navigate the tough terrain that it took for Sam Donald to be able to get to this place.
12:02And on this other side of it, there's also still run games that are really good.
12:06That could sustain them.
12:07A defense on the other side, not saying CJ Stroud does not have that here, but you, there's a lot more to this than just the, the, the overcoming story.
12:14There's a lot of twirl in between there from, and it's going to be his perspective and the organization.
12:18Yes.
12:19And there's going to be, that's going to be the story of the off season.
12:22Do they even want to undertake all of that?
12:24And will they be capable of undertaking all of that and getting it done in a singular off season?
12:28That's the scary part.
12:29Like, are they willing to make a change themselves or are they just going to look at CJ Stroud as the problem?
12:34Yeah.
12:35Yeah.
12:35That's the million dollar question.
12:36And here's the thing.
12:37I can't believe we're there, but I think it's, I think it's possible.
12:39And here's the thing.
12:40I'm not saying on this, like, this is definitively the only way that you should handle this.
12:43There's an argument to be made that we're talking, what we're talking about is a lot to try and undertake and it might be more effective with your time benefit analysis to go, well, let's find somewhere else to go.
12:55Like, and I know that a lot of people are there, but I do believe that there's a, there's the possibility still exists for CJ Stroud.
13:01How you get there is a real, real big question that we have to see with this team.
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