- 17 minutes ago
Seth and Sean take a look at the coaching hires around the AFC this cycle and assess how much they are a concern for Texans fans, and Seth recalls the time Gary Kubiak fired him.
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00:00So the bunch of hires have been made in the NFL and you know,
00:04the Texans haven't had to.
00:05Really do anything with their coaching staff yet, but a lot of.
00:10Teams fired head coaches, as many as I can remember.
00:12There were, I think ultimately there were 10 openings this.
00:15It was, remember a few years ago, the league said, hey guys,
00:18why don't you have everybody settle down on fire?
00:20Hires coaches so quickly and people abided by it for a couple of years.
00:23Boom.
00:23This year.
00:24Day ball.
00:24You're.
00:25Yeah, you're, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27It's easy.
00:28Yeah.
00:28Cowan out of here.
00:28You're like, yeah, you're out.
00:30McDermott.
00:30Well, that was the big thing this year, Seth,
00:33is that some really good jobs opened up.
00:35You know, normally it's five bad jobs or six bad jobs.
00:39There were.
00:40There were five or six bad jobs in this cycle.
00:41There still are, but Baltimore and Pittsburgh.
00:45And Buffalo opening up, we're like, ooh, whoa, okay.
00:48And then also now.
00:50Defensive coaches in the hiring cycle are back in vogue.
00:53Yeah, they are.
00:53They're.
00:55And, you know, everything comes and goes and ebbs and flows, but the.
01:00The fact that there's two defensive minded head coaches in the Super Bowl this year.
01:03It seems like.
01:05For me, at least, it's like, look, yeah, ideally, for me, the tiebreaker would be, okay.
01:10If I had two equally qualified candidates, yes, I'm going to probably go with the offensive guy.
01:15But when you're hiring so many offensive guys year after year, it.
01:20The pool of guys who are still, like, have head coach attributes starts to dry up.
01:25So the actual leader of men, haver of it types, there's going to be.
01:30A little bit of a surplus on the defensive side of things.
01:32Yeah.
01:32I just don't bring.
01:33I'm not going to hire an offense.
01:35A little defensive minded coach who also is some squid personality wise.
01:39Just.
01:40Because an offensive minded coach.
01:41Sure.
01:41So he can be fed to the wolves.
01:43And I'm off looking for a new head coach.
01:45Yeah, that's interesting.
01:46I like, I think, I think your notion of if it's a tie.
01:50I'll take the offensive guy probably plays in terms of, like, yeah,
01:54I think the majority of.
01:55Situations, if you just did it blindly, that makes the most sense.
01:58I think of a team like Cincinnati, if they've.
02:00Never fired Zach Taylor.
02:01They haven't been able to get over the top because their defense has been
02:03atrocious for years.
02:05You know, that might be one, but I think you're, you're right.
02:07I think most teams, especially teams with young quarterbacks.
02:10Would probably go that way.
02:11And yet, and yet, I'll start with this one.
02:13In the division, I mean.
02:15Tennessee's got a young quarterback in Cam Ward.
02:17He was the number one overall pick last year.
02:19He had a.
02:20season that wasn't even good enough to get him into the Pro Bowl
02:23over Shador Sanders.
02:25So he struggled.
02:26He had some moments.
02:27He made some throws, but he's the future there, at least.
02:30For now, how are we feeling about the combination of Robert Sala
02:33at head coach and Brian.
02:35K-Ball is the O.C.
02:35I think, look, I think Cam Ward has a whole lot of potential
02:39and he did some good things.
02:40It was quietly over the second half of the season.
02:43And look, circus throws.
02:45Cross the body and everything aren't the way that you end up
02:47ultimately making it as a quarterback.
02:49But if you.
02:50You can refine some of that and I'm playing, you know.
02:55Like an NFL quarterback, which he didn't really have the opportunity.
03:00to do that this year because the offensive line was so bad for the Titans.
03:03And they fired his coach in the middle of the season.
03:05All the reports are that Cam Ward is going about his business the right way
03:09and that.
03:10That he's really trying to, you know, go through his reads
03:13before he starts to scramble everything like.
03:15That, but it was a really, really tough circumstance.
03:18Brian Dayball was.
03:20The offensive coordinator that first kind of unlocked the, the.
03:25best version of Josh Allen, but it also coincided with Josh Allen fixing.
03:30His mechanics with, with, with Jordan Palmer, it coincides.
03:35It was Stefan Diggs coming into the fold.
03:37It wasn't as simple as, oh wow, Brian Dayball.
03:40was the guy and then that he, he got the best out of Josh Allen.
03:43Josh Allen had an equal.
03:45It was a really good year of the year after Brian Dayball left for the Giants.
03:48Yeah, yeah, for sure.
03:49You know, and he's been.
03:50Good ever since, but that is still, it's not like I'm sleeping on Brian Dayball
03:53as offensive coordinator with.
03:55Cam Ward and I, I think Sal is going to get the best out of that defense.
03:58I'm, um, my.
04:00My eyebrow was raised on that one.
04:01Well, I.
04:01Not in a panic over it, but my eyebrow was raised over the tennis eye.
04:05This is what I would point out to Texan fans is that dumpster fire Titans last year.
04:10We're competitive in both games with you.
04:12Texans made it dicey as hell going into the fourth.
04:15Quarter in both those games.
04:15In both those games.
04:16I know if you just go back and look at the schedule, you go, what are you talking about,
04:19Sean?
04:19They shut him out.
04:2026-0.
04:21It was 6-0 going into the fourth quarter.
04:23Should have been 6-6.
04:24Joe.
04:25Joey Sly missed two very makeable field goals in that game for the Titans.
04:28Should have been a tie game going into the fourth.
04:30Fourth quarter, Texans steamrolled him in the fourth quarter, of course.
04:33And then the game in, the game in.
04:35Tennessee was a last-second field goal by Matthew Wright in that game.
04:39They won six.
04:4016-13 in that game.
04:41The first game, Sean, I had started eating ice cream sandwiches.
04:44That's a...
04:45That's a canary in the coal mine for me in a game.
04:49If I start...
04:50He's not eating ice cream sandwiches in the press box.
04:52Things aren't going so hot.
04:53No, no, no.
04:53Seth does not eat celebration.
04:55Laboratory ice cream sandwiches.
04:56He eats stress ice cream sandwiches.
04:58Yeah, I eat them to soothe myself.
04:59Yeah.
05:00And you had several that day.
05:02I remember.
05:02I remember.
05:03But that...
05:04So that would be my...
05:05My thing, if I were a Texans fan, I'm like, God, they were competitive with us last year
05:08with Brian Callahan coaching one of the games.
05:10And whoever the interim coach was coaching the second game.
05:14And now you've got Robert Salah.
05:15Who had success against you when he was in New York with Dak Wilson.
05:19And you've got Brian Davis.
05:20I think he's a pretty good O.C.
05:21Those are good hires, I think, by Tennessee.
05:23Yeah.
05:23Buffalo with...
05:25Brady as the head coach.
05:26They elevated the offensive coordinator, Joe Brady, to be a head coach.
05:28I rejoiced.
05:30So wait a second.
05:31We get to see...
05:33I guess really the question...
05:35Okay, did they improve defensively now that Sean McDermott is gone?
05:38Even though Sean McDermott...
05:40Was operating with a skeleton crew because of injuries.
05:43But their defense is kind of slowly...
05:45over the last few years.
05:47Look, they elevated Brandon Beans...
05:50the czar of football operations...
05:52when one of the big issues with the Bills this year is they simply...
05:55didn't have receivers.
05:57Especially on the outside.
05:59They had Khalil Sha...
06:00secure in the slot.
06:00But they didn't have any outside threat at receiver.
06:02So they elevated the guy who's responsible for...
06:05the Bills not having any receivers to czar of football operations.
06:08And they took the offensive coordinator...
06:10who had one of the best running backs in the league on his team...
06:13yet curiously decided...
06:15to sometimes stop using them all together.
06:16Yeah.
06:17Yeah, I'm all for this.
06:18I applaud that...
06:20I applaud this move...
06:21because I don't think the Bills are one bit better than they were...
06:23before they fired Sean McDermott.
06:24Okay, so...
06:25this was interesting.
06:26The Dogs, a Cleveland Browns podcast...
06:30because they posted this list.
06:32Now, they did it...
06:33they did it within the...
06:35framework of covering the Browns...
06:36because it looks like Jim Schwartz...
06:38has become one of the two frontrunners.
06:40for that job.
06:41And like Joe Brady, that would be an internal promotion.
06:43You know, he was the D.C. for them...
06:45in the last couple years.
06:45They really like him in Cleveland.
06:47So, this podcast...
06:50tweeted as we await the inevitable Jim Schwartz announcement.
06:52Here's a reminder of the history of NFL teams.
06:55promoting a coordinator to head coach.
06:57It's pretty ugly.
06:58Yeah.
06:59Uh, Freddie...
07:00Kitchens, one year, 6-10 record.
07:02Now, Gerard Mayo, they put on this list.
07:04He wasn't a...
07:05coordinator.
07:05He was a position coach.
07:07But he was horrible for one year.
07:09Antonio Pierce...
07:10horrible for one year plus the interim year that he had.
07:12Brian Schottenheimer so far has not...
07:15been great in Dallas.
07:16Ben McAdoo got a year and a half in New York.
07:20with the Giants.
07:20Mike Malarkey got two years with the Titans.
07:23Dennis Allen was an intern...
07:25internal elevation after Sean Payton walked away from football.
07:29Dirk Cutter...
07:30Remember they fired Lovie Smith with the Bucs to promote Dirk Cutter
07:33because they wanted to make sure Jame...
07:35Dennis Winston had his guy?
07:36Yeah.
07:3619-29 over three years.
07:38Doug Marone, the list goes on and on.
07:40That has not been...
07:42not one success story on there.
07:44Promoting...
07:45From within has not been a good avenue to get a good head coach.
07:47It's one of those things that I've always found a...
07:50curious too because it's true.
07:51The track record is bad and it seems like if you just look...
07:55at it as objectively as possible it seems like it shouldn't be...
08:00that bad.
08:00I mean at any given point you'd think okay well some of these guys are...
08:04they're destined...
08:05going to be head coaches eventually or anything anyway.
08:07But I think that one of the things that happens is...
08:10when you promote somebody from within because you fired the head coach on that same...
08:15staff...
08:16I think some of the people start kind of...
08:18everybody feels like our...
08:20all right this feels like an interim coach situation still and all your assistants start...
08:25you know scanning for other opportunities and everything.
08:29There's all...
08:30there's already potentially bad blood on people within your staff or jealousy...
08:35from other...
08:36from people who thought that they should have gotten the job...
08:38because Jim Schwartz does make sense...
08:40and he is a head coach caliber dude...
08:42um...
08:43obviously...
08:44but I...
08:45yeah...
08:46he's been a head coach...
08:47there's something about just not...
08:48you know...
08:49when you kill the king...
08:50you gotta...
08:50kill his entire council as well...
08:51yeah...
08:52uh...
08:53or you just...
08:54it's impossible to...
08:55just...
08:55have...
08:56people just...
08:57it...
08:58just almost be...
08:59the internal politics of it become too complex...
09:00I heard someone make this point this morning...
09:02and I thought it was interesting...
09:03I am...
09:04I might have been...
09:05I can't remember...
09:06I was listening...
09:05in a national...
09:06or I was listening to Cleveland...
09:07because of the Schwartz thing...
09:09but...
09:10they said...
09:10that...
09:11it probably makes...
09:12it makes more sense...
09:13for a guy like Joe Brady...
09:14to go be...
09:15a head coach somewhere else...
09:16because...
09:17you...
09:18you go for...
09:19like...
09:20going from being a...
09:20tenant...
09:21to being the...
09:22the guy at the top...
09:23yeah...
09:24you...
09:25you're...
09:25having to...
09:26probably apply a different tone...
09:27apply discipline...
09:28like...
09:29you're the guy setting the tone for all this...
09:30because...
09:31and you may have been...
09:32one of the good cops before...
09:33and you may have to go...
09:34to being the bad cop now...
09:35and...
09:35and it's easier to go to a new building...
09:36and be the bad cop...
09:37when...
09:38you know...
09:39you're...
09:39you're...
09:40I mean...
09:41you know...
09:42you're...
09:43you're...
09:44you're...
09:45you're...
09:46you're...
09:47you're...
09:48they're...
09:49you're...
09:50you're...
10:04than there is a bunch of self-serving coaches on a staff somewhere.
10:07So it's a lot harder to do.
10:09It's all of a sudden come in with an iron fist and be that different guy.
10:14Yeah, to mention the relationship you have with the players and all of that.
10:18But good luck to you.
10:19You'll be the ones that make it work.
10:22I was happy when I saw that news yesterday.
10:24My concern level about Tennessee, I think, mirrors yours, which is like, all right, this...
10:29They may be getting it right with these two hires here.
10:31If Cam Ward doesn't pan out, then they're going to be right back where they were.
10:34But Dayball might be a guy who gets the most out of Cam Ward.
10:36Okay, the Mike McDaniel hire is official now in...
10:39L.A. with the Chargers.
10:41He's done interviewing for head coaching jobs.
10:43He's the OC...
10:44For the L.A. Chargers.
10:45They are leading the league in a number of weirdos on their staff.
10:49With only just those two guys.
10:50Between Jim Harbaugh and Mike McDaniel.
10:53A couple...
10:54Some of the weirdest guys.
10:55But I think, look, Jim Harbaugh obviously has had success...
10:59Being his particular brand of weirdo.
11:00I think with Mike McDaniel, it's...
11:03This is...
11:04This is going to be interesting for Jim Harbaugh because, like, Greg Roman was a different
11:08type of offense.
11:09defensive coordinator that I think in some ways had some limitations on...
11:14What he was willing to do in the passing game or how he wanted to operate.
11:18Mike McDaniel...
11:19Mike McDaniel, don't be fooled into thinking the offense he ran with to a ton...
11:24John Gavailoa, was like, that's the Mike McDaniel offense.
11:27No, that was Mike McDaniel doing...
11:29What he needed to do to make up for some of Tua Tunga-Vailoa's...
11:34Efficiencies.
11:35And I think with Justin Herbert, it's going to be completely different.
11:38I think that...
11:39You're going to see, you're going to see some aggressiveness downfield.
11:42You're going to add in that element...
11:44that he's really good at with the RPO and everything, but also that he also...
11:49theoretically is really smart and good with the run game.
11:52Yeah.
11:53And do you...
11:54So do you see the...
11:55Do you see the best version of Mike McDaniel now that he's got a...
11:59bonafide quarterback to do it with?
12:00Yeah.
12:01And they're going to get their two tackles back next year.
12:02I mean, they were operating all year.
12:04Virtually all year.
12:05The entire year without Rayshon Slater and most of the year without Joe...
12:09They're going to get both of those guys back next year.
12:11Get those guys back.
12:12Mike McDaniel is the OC.
12:14That's a dangerous team.
12:15I mean, they're already a playoff team, but that's...
12:17You know, Justin Herbert not getting his head handed.
12:19Do you get to him every week like he was down the stretch?
12:21Well, yeah, and that's...
12:22You know how I feel about it.
12:23I think...
12:24Mike McDaniel is that guy.
12:25I don't know if he's cut out to be a head coach, but man, because they're two different...
12:29You know, being a head coach and being a coordinator are completely different things.
12:32And I think that Mike McDaniel...
12:34...without having to worry about trying to act like they're a tough football team and all...
12:39...of that, just being able to work on the X's and O's and coaching the players, you're probably going to see...
12:44...the very best version of Mike McDaniel.
12:45You probably will.
12:46He got enough interest to be a head coach again in this...
12:49...this cycle, right after he got fired, to where I think if they have a good year next year, he could be one and done.
12:54You know, the league, the league, there were enough teams interviewing him this cycle that thought he could still...
12:59...be a head coach or at least he's worth talking to.
13:01Yeah.
13:02So, I think he might be one and done.
13:03I hope...
13:04You look at Mike McDaniel almost as like he's a creative type at a company where...
13:09...you know, it's very rare that you find the creative type who's also an awesome CEO.
13:12CEO.
13:13Yeah.
13:14You know?
13:14Yeah.
13:15That's right.
13:16I know you didn't watch Mad Men.
13:17That's what was so special about Don Draper was that he was...
13:19...he was an ad writer but he was also...
13:21...he was like very effective as a boss as well.
13:24Captain of industry.
13:25It's hard to find the creative types that also have that captain of industry side to him.
13:29I feel like Mike McDaniel is way more on the creative type side of things.
13:32No, no, no.
13:33To be clear, I would never...
13:34...hire Mike McDaniel as my head coach.
13:36Ever.
13:37There were enough teams interviewing him this...
13:39That it's going to happen.
13:40...to make me think it's going to happen.
13:41Well, he's going to get interest again.
13:42You know?
13:43And...
13:44If you get enough interest, it does happen eventually.
13:45I think he's going to...
13:46You know what though?
13:47If you hire him, if you feel like you just...
13:49...need that one guy to put you over the top, he might be the perfect hire for that.
13:53Yeah.
13:54And you just...
13:54I just can't expect him.
13:55It's hard for me to see him as being a guy who creates a culture over the course of...
13:59...a decade.
14:00I totally agree.
14:01I totally agree.
14:02Yeah, maybe like a Gruden and...
14:04...the Tampa Bay thing where they were...
14:05You know, they...
14:06Tony Dungy could only get them so far.
14:07They bring in Gruden, they win a Super Bowl.
14:09Mike McCarthy in Pittsburgh.
14:12Concern level over that.
14:14I was happy.
14:14I was happy to see Pittsburgh hire Mike McCarthy.
14:16Don't.
14:17I don't think Pittsburgh was happy to see Pittsburgh...
14:19...hire Mike McCarthy.
14:20I'm concerned that I'm going to be spending too much time listening to Pittsburgh radio.
14:24Because I...
14:25I'm...
14:26I'm intrigued by this.
14:28Mike McCarthy...
14:29Like when he took over play calling for Dak, that was a big boon for Dak Prescott.
14:33Yeah.
14:34Take...
14:34Taking...
14:35Taking over play calling for...
14:36For...
14:37For Aaron Rodgers.
14:38If Aaron...
14:39...decides to stay.
14:40Mm-hmm.
14:41Um...
14:42I don't know about that.
14:43And I...
14:44I think with Pittsburgh though...
14:44It's probably a good move.
14:45At least it's a step up from Tomlin if you're going to try to get...
14:49...yourself a young quarterback at some point.
14:51That at least you do have a head coach...
14:53...caliber guy.
14:54But who also is really good at working with young quarterbacks.
14:57I know that...
14:58I'm not going to be like...
14:59...pittsburgh PR that acted like...
15:01...Mike McCarthy as a quality control assistant.
15:04Uh...
15:05...somehow developed Joe Montana.
15:06Yeah.
15:07In Kansas City.
15:08But uh...
15:09But he did...
15:09He did...
15:10He has done work with good young...
15:11...with young quarterbacks.
15:12The interesting thing coming out of Pittsburgh was...
15:14Andrew Filippone...
15:15...the afternoon host up there on 93.7...
15:17...the fan...
15:18Andrew Filippone, their afternoon host up there on 93.7...
15:19...the fan...
15:19...who we had on...
15:20...the week leading up to the...
15:22...game against the Steelers in the wildcard.
15:24Uh...
15:25...he was reporting that...
15:26...I think it was Nate Sheilhaus...
15:28...it was definitely...
15:29...Chris Shula...
15:30...had unimpressive interviews with the Steelers.
15:33Yeah.
15:34Which had a lot of people...
15:34...worked up like...
15:35...hey man...
15:36...like that's...
15:37...that's a...
15:38...tough thing to put on somebody...
15:39...you know?
15:40Like...
15:39...are you sure that they...
15:41...and so I think Filippone may have had a source in the...
15:44...the building there in Pittsburgh...
15:45...that...
15:46...Chris Shula and Nate Sheilhaus...
15:47...who were two assistants with the...
15:49...the Rams...
15:50...Shula's the DC...
15:51...Sheilhaus...
15:52...is the passing game coordinator...
15:53...that they did not...
15:54...impressed the Steelers...
15:55...and their interviews.
15:56But who was upset about that?
15:57Uh...
15:58...people said...
15:59Well...
16:00...a lot of Rams people...
15:59...were like...
16:00...hey...
16:01...are you sure?
16:02Oh...
16:03...yeah...
16:04...like they...
16:05...they were questioning his reporting on that.
16:06Questioning whether...
16:07Okay...
16:08...how...
16:04...how can you report...
16:05...they didn't have impressive interviews like that?
16:06Yeah...
16:07...like that's a tough thing to put on somebody out there...
16:08...if you're not a hundred percent...
16:09...if it's just one person's opinion...
16:11...that he got about that...
16:12...because I'm guessing they interviewed with more than one person...
16:14...so...
16:15...um...
16:16...that was interesting I thought...
16:17One thing by the way...
16:18...I think that...
16:19...Shanahan and...
16:19...like they both actually put time and energy into helping...
16:22...their assistants...
16:23...learn how to...
16:24Yes...
16:24...interview...
16:25...so I get to see them especially getting upset about that...
16:27Yes...
16:28...and it's...
16:29...I mean there's...
16:29...especially now because you can get compensatory picks...
16:32...uh...
16:33...when you're...
16:34...when you're...
16:34...they just get hired away...
16:35...that's a...
16:36...hey man you're messing with our...
16:37...messing with our dollars here...
16:38...yeah man...
16:39...well...
16:40...sheel house they would get one for...
16:41...yeah...
16:42...um...
16:43...for sure...
16:44...uh...
16:44...the head coach in Baltimore...
16:45...how did you feel about that...
16:46...when you saw that announced?
16:47I think...
16:48...he is that leader...
16:49...the leader of men...
16:50...have her a bit...
16:51...all of that stuff...
16:52Another defensive coach...
16:53...yeah...
16:54...but a defensive coach as well...
16:54...uh...
16:55...so now the...
16:56...they haven't hired an offensive coordinator yet...
16:57...have they?
16:58They have not...
16:59...I checked this morning...
17:00...they've not...
16:59...yeah...
17:00...they haven't hired an offensive...
17:01...that's a huge question there...
17:02...as it has been with Lamar Jackson...
17:04...um...
17:05...that...
17:06...it's so weird...
17:07...it's so strange...
17:08...that...
17:09...we have discussions about...
17:11...a guy who's a two-time MVP...
17:13...uh...
17:14...um...
17:15...and that...
17:16...I don't know...
17:17...are you gonna be able to work with...
17:18...I...
17:19...man...
17:20...I...
17:21...I know that...
17:19...right early on in his career...
17:20...he didn't have good...
17:21...playoff performances...
17:22...but it's not like their departure...
17:23...the last couple...
17:24...of times around...
17:25...is because of him...
17:26...I mean...
17:27...he's had...
17:28...he's had...
17:29...some of the play...
17:29...the players...
17:30...he's had Zay Flowers...
17:31...let him down...
17:32...he's had...
17:33...Mark Andrews...
17:34...let him down...
17:34...kinda like with Josh...
17:35...Josh Allen...
17:36...where...
17:37...they haven't gotten over the hump...
17:38...in the playoffs...
17:39...at...
17:40...times...
17:41...because...
17:42...it's not because of the quarterback play...
17:43...the quarterback played well enough to win...
17:44...and yet...
17:45...somehow here we are again...
17:46...I guess if I'm a Baltimore fan...
17:47...what I hope is that...
17:48...yeah...
17:49...whatever it was...
17:50...between John Harbaugh...
17:52...and Lamar Jackson...
17:53...and whatever else...
17:54...they just...
17:54...they just had...
17:55...irreconcilable differences...
17:56...and that Jesse Minter...
17:57...just needs to be the guy...
17:58...that...
17:59...gets along better with...
18:00...whatever the hell's going on...
18:01...in Baltimore...
18:02...it is interesting man...
18:03...there are a lot...
18:04...sob...
18:04...the defensive coach...
18:05...the Minter...
18:06...defensive coach...
18:07...Halfley...
18:08...in Miami...
18:09...defensive coach...
18:10...I guess my biggest takeaway...
18:12...just to put a bow on this...
18:13...would be...
18:14...I'm glad Clint Kubiak...
18:16...didn't wind up with...
18:17...some of these jobs...
18:18...that have either...
18:19...are good quarterbacks...
18:20...or young quarterbacks...
18:21...I was worried about Clint Kubiak...
18:22...going to Buffalo...
18:23...Buffalo...
18:24...I...
18:24...but...
18:25...Balt...
18:26...you know...
18:27...Baltimore would be interesting...
18:28...to see what he would do...
18:29...I know it's a different offense...
18:29...for Lamar...
18:30...Randy's a big Clint Kubiak...
18:31...fan now...
18:32...because of nepotism...
18:33...yeah...
18:34...she loves Gary...
18:34...and uh...
18:35...which he always talks about...
18:36...how much he loves Gary Kubiak...
18:37...which is interesting...
18:38...because Gary Kubiak...
18:39...he would inspire me...
18:40...yeah...
18:41...thanks Brandi...
18:42...thanks for the support...
18:43...has she liked him since...
18:44...like...
18:44...because I liked Gary more...
18:46...after he fired me...
18:47...right...
18:48...than I did before...
18:49...yeah...
18:49...this is one of the most...
18:50...pleasant phone conversations...
18:51...I've ever had...
18:52...was when he fired me...
18:53...are you just...
18:54...I really...
18:54...well I left that...
18:55...you sure?
18:56...I left that meeting...
18:57...he should be...
18:58...remember that movie...
18:59...in Georgia with...
18:59...with George Clooney...
19:00...where his job was...
19:01...to fire people...
19:02...to kind of give him...
19:03...a pep talk...
19:04...as they were getting...
19:04...fired and show them...
19:05...their new path...
19:06...that's how I felt...
19:07...after Gary Kubiak...
19:08...fired me...
19:09...you...
19:09...you liked Gary Kubiak...
19:10...more afterwards...
19:11...I did...
19:12...I already liked him...
19:13...are you sure...
19:14...or just...
19:14...a coping...
19:15...are you still in...
19:16...denial...
19:17...18 years later?
19:18No!
19:19I got...
19:19...I got off the phone...
19:20...with him...
19:21...I was at a park...
19:22...with...
19:23...watching my child...
19:24...I was there with...
19:24...I wasn't really...
19:25...watching...
19:26...but...
19:27...they were fine...
19:28...and...
19:29...and then Gary called me...
19:30...and...
19:31...and...
19:32...you know...
19:33...toled me...
19:34...and somebody
19:35had already clued me...
19:34that I was probably going to get the X.
19:35So I was expecting the phone call.
19:37You know, I rarely answer the...
19:39But I figured this was what was happening.
19:42I'm the kind of guy that gets up on the...
19:44on the gallows and acts braver.
19:47You know, like, I'm ready.
19:48I'm ready.
19:49I'm ready for you to hang me.
19:49Let's do it.
19:50Let's get on with it.
19:51Hey, let me ask you this.
19:52Now, this is pre-iPhone.
19:54Yeah.
19:54Did you have Gary Kubiak's phone number in your phone?
19:58Like, did you know...
19:58In my BlackBerry?
19:59I did.
19:59In your BlackBerry?
20:00You popped up Gary Kubiak.
20:01I'm just curious, like, how...
20:02I had...
20:03Well, because I had some conversations...
20:04with him during training camp here.
20:06You're probably viewed as one of, like, the veteran guys.
20:09on the team.
20:10You know, like, I'm always curious.
20:11Yeah, I was.
20:11It got complicated.
20:12It was messy.
20:13Rick...
20:14Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak felt differently.
20:15I get the sense that Rick Smith felt differently about me than Gary...
20:19Gary Kubiak did.
20:20Yeah.
20:20And then I ended up...
20:21I didn't handle the situation.
20:23Oh, really?
20:23Oh, really?
20:24I knew I was going to be gone the day I walked into Rick Smith's office on the final day
20:27of the season and basically told him...
20:29I'm like, I don't...
20:30I don't...
20:31I basically said, like, I don't feel like you've been dealing...
20:34with me, honestly, here, and I'm not happy about the way things were handled.
20:39Back in August when you guys...
20:40They wanted to redo my contract, and at the time, I was like...
20:44I was like, just cut me.
20:45I told them to cut me.
20:46Didn't they have you, like...
20:46Or at least I told my agent to tell them to cut me.
20:48I...
20:49I don't know what he actually said to them.
20:50Yeah.
20:50Because I felt like they'd been kind of underhanded in some of the things they were...
20:54That was on the Rick Smith side of things, not Gary Kubiak.
20:56Sure, sure.
20:57But then after the season...
20:59I went up to Gary Kubiak and told him how much I hated Richard Smith, the defensive coordinator.
21:02I remember...
21:02Yeah, you've talked about that.
21:03So I feel like...
21:04Between telling Rick Smith I didn't like the way he was doing things and telling Gary Kubiak...
21:09That I hated the defensive coordinator.
21:11Yeah.
21:11I didn't think that 11th year veteran Seth Payne...
21:14Coming off a torn ACL was going to survive that storm.
21:16It's a definite heat check.
21:18For sure.
21:18I know.
21:18I know.
21:19I wasn't trying to pull a power play or anything.
21:20I'm just like, I'm being honest with you here.
21:22Like, I'm willing to talk to people.
21:24And work through things and everything.
21:25This is the way I feel right now.
21:26Was that the year that they had you running with the three...
21:29In training camp?
21:30During training camp, yeah.
21:31It was a bunch of weird...
21:32You started every year with...
21:34The Texans?
21:34They were doing this.
21:35I was a 10th year starter and they were having...
21:39Me run with like...
21:39It was all to try to kind of bully me into...
21:42It was weird, man.
21:43It was like something out of...
21:44A movie.
21:44It really was.
21:45It was the first time in my life in the NFL.
21:46I was like, this is like...
21:48The bad version...
21:49Of the NFL that I've heard about.
21:50Like, they...
21:51I was...
21:52I thought they just hated me.
21:53Yeah.
21:54So, they were like...
21:55They were having me run with the scouts and everything.
21:57The scout team and all this.
21:58Richard Smith is calling me by the wrong name in team meetings and all this.
22:03Oh.
22:03I'm like, I don't know if they're trying to get me to retire or what.
22:06They just don't like me.
22:07They come to me at the end of training...
22:08And say, well, Seth, you know, you're not a starter.
22:11We'd like you to take a pay cut or however...
22:13They phrased it to my agent.
22:15And I was like, nah, I'll just...
22:16I'll go play for minimum somewhere else.
22:18Like, where I'm respected.
22:20Yeah.
22:20I don't hear anything.
22:22Next day...
22:23I go to go to the...
22:25I'm at a movie with Brandy.
22:26So, this is at the end of training camp.
22:28I go to...
22:28I...
22:28I check my phone as I go to the bathroom in the middle of this movie.
22:32And it says...
22:33Texans no tackle, Robert Smith, released.
22:37Oh, wow.
22:37That's who I was competing with.
22:38Robert Smith.
22:39Okay.
22:39Robert Smith was a starter all during training camp.
22:42And...
22:43I...
22:44So, they were just trying to dick with me to...
22:47Sorry, can I...
22:48They were just trying to mess with me.
22:50Ben doesn't think you can say it because I'm looking at the dump thing flashing.
22:53They were just trying to mess with me to get me to take a pay cut, probably so they could...
22:58Keep both Robert and me.
22:59Yeah.
23:00And then all of a sudden, I'm starting in week one.
23:03And I'm...
23:03I'm like, man, I've never been...
23:05Like, again, I...
23:06I was lucky enough my whole career to be...
23:08Like, decent people in charge.
23:10I...
23:10This was like something out of a movie.
23:12Well...
23:13They...
23:13These...
23:13These are horror stories I'd heard about the way they operate with the Bengals or something.
23:16Yeah, yeah.
23:17So, I just...
23:17I was done with them.
23:18I was like...
23:18Like, ah, man, not...
23:19And I didn't blame Gary.
23:20I thought Gary was...
23:21I don't think Gary knew a lot of the stuff that was going on.
23:24I just...
23:24I was disgusted with the way they were...
23:26They were handling their business.
23:27That's...
23:28Um...
23:28That's really interesting.
23:29I wasn't in radio at that time.
23:30I wasn't in radio until the next training camp in 2007.
23:33But I just know how closely we scrutinize everything.
23:38These days at training camp.
23:40So, I can't speak to whether or not it was the same back...
23:43That was...
23:43I wasn't even living here.
23:44I was living in Chicago at the time.
23:45So, it's not like I was listening to sports radio...
23:486, 10 every day during training camp.
23:51That feeling that would get...
23:53Destroyed...
23:54Like, imagine D'Amico Ryan's taking...
23:57You know, I don't know.
23:58The interior...
23:58The defensive line's an interesting thing.
24:00Because it's such a rotational thing.
24:01Let's call...
24:02Let's pretend Sheldon...
24:03Rankin's on a multi-year deal.
24:05And he's coming into the last year of his deal.
24:07And all of a sudden, Sheldon Rankin's is...
24:08Out there with the threes.
24:10That's the equivalent of it, really.
24:12I mean, he's the perennial star...
24:13Been productive, well-respected...
24:17All of those...
24:17I'm assuming you were all of...
24:18And all of a sudden, you're running with the threes.
24:22And they've got somebody running with the...
24:23And they cut that guy who's been with the ones the entire camp.
24:27Yeah.
24:27Like, that's...
24:28That is such slipshod amateur hour stuff, man.
24:31We played the...
24:32I was playing in the fourth quarter.
24:33Of a preseason game in Denver.
24:35That's messed up, dude.
24:36I'm getting mad about stuff happening in...
24:382006.
24:39The offensive lineman came...
24:41One of the starters from the Broncos had to come...
24:43Back in, in the second half because somebody got injured or something.
24:46And he looked at me and he was...
24:48And he was a younger guy, though.
24:50He's like, Seth, what the hell are you doing out here?
24:52And I'm like...
24:53I don't know, man.
24:55I'm just...
24:55I'm just...
24:56I'm just living life.
24:58That...
24:58That makes me wish that either...
25:00That makes me wish that either Playmaker Ballers was still a show.
25:03Yeah, yeah.
25:04Because that...
25:05Sending just little...
25:06That little clip to one of the writers...
25:08Just to use it for...
25:09That would be hilarious.
25:10It was so weird.
25:11It was a really...
25:12That first year...
25:13It was so strange.
25:15There were a lot of guys that, like...
25:17It felt like Rick...
25:18Smith was trying to be the movie version of a GM or something.
25:22And, like, Richard...
25:23Smith, the defensive coordinator, felt like he was trying to be the Hollywood version of
25:27a defensive coordinator.
25:28And I'm like...
25:29Man, these guys are making this way too complicated.
25:32It's so...
25:32It's so strange.
25:33Oh.
25:33Oh, my God.
25:34Yeah, that's wild.
25:35That is wild.
25:35So, basically, I'd gone out, and I'd just flat out...
25:38Because I was honest.
25:40I wasn't trying to...
25:41I 100% figured I was going to get cut.
25:43After that season.
25:44And I was going to try to be open and honest about it.
25:46Because I really, really like Gary Kubiak.
25:48Yeah.
25:48I just wanted to be straightforward about everything.
25:50About, like, how I felt about things.
25:53And...
25:53But then the funniest thing was that when...
25:55So, they got rid of me, and people looked at me as a veteran.
25:58Leader and everything.
25:59Even though I wasn't the best version of myself after I was disgruntled.
26:03So, they...
26:03So, Rick goes out and gets...
26:05What's his name?
26:06The defensive tackle.
26:08The...
26:08The stocky white dude.
26:10Skinina?
26:11Yeah, Skinina.
26:12Yeah.
26:13And, like...
26:13The people in the building said, like, yeah, we're going to...
26:17You know, we're going to bring in another...
26:18Veteran leader, Skinina, who was roommates with Rick Smith in college.
26:21Oh, yeah.
26:21They went to Purdue together.
26:22Yeah.
26:23He went out and got...
26:23He's got the exact opposite of me.
26:25Well, where can I find somebody that looks like Seth, but is the exact opposite of...
26:28President in terms of supporting Rick Smith.
26:30Oh, my God.
26:31That's...
26:31Could you be...
26:32Skinina was a good...
26:33It was just...
26:34It was just funny.
26:35Yeah.
26:36I remember...
26:36It was a Cracker Jack BS operation.
26:38Yeah.
26:39Early on.
26:40Yeah, yeah.
26:40And I don't think...
26:40I honestly don't think Kubiak realized a lot of...
26:43Like, the way Rick Smith was operating early on.
26:46I think Rick got better as a GM.
26:47He was very, very young.
26:48You know, he was a very young general manager that was going to make what a lot of young
26:53people in a...
26:53position of power do.
26:54They go King Joffrey on things.
26:56Well, and especially that it was going on on the defensive side.
26:58Of the ball, I could see Kubiak being a guy...
27:00And he was a guy that delegated the defensive side of the ball.
27:04Yeah.
27:04You know, so I could...
27:05That's the kind of thing, though, too.
27:06It's funny.
27:06When you talk about people...
27:07Like, going...
27:08Going into that season, I was hoping...
27:10I wanted to play 15 years.
27:11Now, look, I tore my ACL.
27:13And I was going into my 11th year.
27:15But that...
27:16That training camp broke me.
27:18I really...
27:18It was like, man, I just don't...
27:20I don't...
27:20I don't want to...
27:21I don't need this.
27:22I don't need to go through...
27:2315, you wanted to go...
27:24I'm not going to go through...
27:25I'm not going to go...
27:26And I ended up being in training camp that year.
27:28But I was...
27:29I shouldn't have even done that.
27:31The next year...
27:32In 07, yeah.
27:33Yeah, which would have been my 11th.
27:35But I hadn't...
27:36Like, my heart wasn't in it.
27:38Yeah.
27:38It just...
27:38I was like, man, this...
27:39If this was going to be like, screw this.
27:41I don't need this.
27:4210's a pretty good run, man.
27:4410 is a real good run.
27:45I would have gotten injured again, so...
27:47Yeah.
27:47Yeah, 11 was...
27:4811 was probably going to be on that.
27:49Yeah, yeah.
27:50My body was broken.
27:50Although I know you regret that New York Giant thing.
27:53I mean, that's...
27:53So I say all that to say this.
27:57Just be careful.
27:58So you hire...
27:59Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:00Yeah, absolutely.
28:01No, Kubiak was an offensive-minded head coach.
28:03Mm-hmm.
28:03He hired...
28:04He had Richard Smith those first couple years, and it was a disaster defensively.
28:08Yeah.
28:08Then he, uh, uh, who was that after that, after...
28:11Frank Bush.
28:11Yeah, Frank Bush, and that was a disaster.
28:13Defensively.
28:14Yep.
28:14But as an offensive...
28:15A young offensive-minded coach, finding that other coordinator...
28:18is really important.
28:19Uh, D'Amico's had way more success in his first couple years, but still...
28:23has that question hanging over him, is, man, how are you going to get this offense, right?
28:28A hundred percent.
28:28A defensive-minded head coach.
28:29Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
28:30Like, I don't think, you know, Sloak obviously didn't...
28:33end up working out after two years.
28:34It doesn't sound like Sloak was nearly the disaster that you thought Richard Smith...
28:38I mean...
28:39Sounds like you don't...
28:39You didn't like Richard Smith.
28:41No, I didn't know.
28:41I thought he was...
28:42He's just honestly...
28:43He's the...
28:43He's the only former coach of mine that I will openly just flat out say, man, at least
28:47in his role...
28:48as defensive coordinator in Texas, he operated in a deplorable fashion, the way he treated...
28:53three players and everything.
28:54Maybe he's different.
28:55Maybe he's changed since then.
28:56Maybe it was just that was who he was in that situation.
28:58But it was...
28:59It was some really...
29:00Like, some real BS.
29:01The way he treated people...
29:02Yeah.
29:03was as bad as I've ever seen by any football coach on any level.
29:06Yeah.
29:06Like, it is.
29:06I'm going back to high school, college, whatever.
29:08Like, it was...
29:09It was bad.
29:10Yeah.
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