- 7 weeks ago
A political debate surrounds former Maharashtra CM Prithviraj Chavan's claim that India was 'defeated on Day 1' of Operation Sindoor, the May 2025 military conflict with Pakistan. Military officials counter this, with Air Marshal Sanjeev Kapoor (Retd) stating the IAF hit its targets and recalibrated, while Maj. Gen. Sanjay Meston (Retd) called it a 'total victory'. Conversely, political analyst Sanjay Jha cited CDS General Anil Chauhan’s admission of initial 'jet losses' and a US report noting Pakistan's success with Chinese weaponry. BJP's Tuhin Sinha questioned trusting Pakistani narratives over Indian officials, highlighting the destruction of PAF airbases and neutralization of terrorists. The broader discussion addresses the strikes on terror camps in Muridke and Bahawalpur, the subsequent ceasefire, and the recent Red Fort blast, which is being investigated as a possible revenge attack for Operation Sindoor.
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00:00So, was the Indian Air Force grounded? Was Indian Air Force defeated?
00:04Joining me on this India First special broadcast is Air Marshal Sanjeev Kapoor.
00:08He's former Director General, Flight Safety and Inspections, a fighter pilot himself.
00:12Sanjay Jha is a political analyst formerly with the Congress, joins us as a political commentator.
00:17Sushant Sareen is Senior Fellow of the Observer Research Foundation.
00:21This comment clearly is going viral in Pakistan.
00:24Of Prithvirat Chawad, also with me is Tuhin Sina, National Spokesperson of the Bharatiya Janata Party.
00:30But Air Marshal Kapoor, let me begin by asking you, on day one, was the Indian Air Force defeated and grounded?
00:42Absolutely not.
00:44The warfare is not, you know, spoken in studios and it is not discussed, the people with armchairs, sitting on chairs, the way we are discussing warfare.
00:56In any conflict, we took the preemptive and thereafter it is, you know, something called as denying the retaliation was the process which is followed everywhere.
01:09So, when you begin a conflict, thereafter you have to fall back, assess.
01:15And that is what the Indian Air Force did on the first day.
01:18We took out the nine targets, the aim being to convey that we have just hit the terrorist targets which perpetrated the Pahlgham incident.
01:29So, had the enemy decided, they would have left the conflict there only.
01:33But knowing them, knowing the tactics, we were expecting a retaliation.
01:39And in that, all our assets, immediately after the first strike, were put on high alert.
01:45Be it our fighters, be it our surface-to-air missiles, be it our radars, be it our electronic warfare equipment.
01:52And these were put immediately because we were expecting a backlash.
01:57And as a part of tactics, all the assets...
02:00Say again.
02:03Fair enough.
02:04I want to bring in Sanjay Jha for a quick response.
02:06Sanjay Jha, what would you make of Prithvirat Chavan's statement?
02:10He is former Chief Minister of Maharashtra.
02:13He has served in the Prime Minister's office.
02:15Why would he say something like this?
02:17Good evening, Gaurav, to you and to my fellow panelists on the program.
02:23This is a very serious subject because a lot of people have made allegations, starting with the BJP.
02:29And since I believe the BJP is a very farcical political party, I need to kind of address this head-on.
02:36This is, to start with, this is a political party that still has to apologize to the people of India for Pulwama and Pahlgham.
02:44That has not yet even happened as we talk.
02:47But let's address what Mr. Chavan has mentioned.
02:50Let me make a disclaimer, Gaurav, right at the very beginning, in all honesty.
02:54Not only has he been a senior colleague of mine in the Congress, he's a very dear friend of mine.
02:59Now, let me just make the point, and I will come to critical points of what he said.
03:04Go back to what General V.P. Malik, Chief of Army Staff during the Kargil War,
03:09the tweet that he made when the ceasefire was announced.
03:11What did he say?
03:12He said categorically in his tweet, what did we achieve by this abrupt ceasefire?
03:18We launched the attack.
03:21And the question that both an eminent General V.P. Malik, I don't think anybody is like him on the panel with due respects.
03:27If he says that what did we achieve, the question that we need to introspect on, since we launched the attack on Pakistan, justified,
03:36what did we really suddenly bring the ceasefire for?
03:39Number two, you have the CDS.
03:42Sir, my question to you is very specific.
03:45He says on day one, we were defeated.
03:48On day one, we were defeated.
03:51Was Indian Air Force defeated on day one?
03:54He's a dear friend of yours.
03:55He's a senior Congress leader.
03:57His statements are now going viral in Pakistan that Indian Air Force was defeated.
04:02Pakistan says this.
04:03Why would a senior Congress leader say this?
04:05Why do you think he was defeated?
04:07Why India was defeated on day one?
04:08Gaurav, since you're in your panel of four, and if I include you five people, I'm the only one who has got to explain the rationale behind Mr. Chawan's statement.
04:21It will only be pertinent and fair if you do not interrupt me till I put my point of view on the table.
04:27And I'm not going to take too long.
04:28I'm not going to indulge in verbal diarrhea like the Indian Prime Minister.
04:32So let me come to the point immediately.
04:33General Anil Chohan, our CDS, was on record in Singapore to say, and I think one should applaud him for his candidness, because this government is not transparent, saying that, yes, we did suffer reverses in terms of jet losses.
04:49He didn't specify any number.
04:51And that led to a recalibration of the strategy.
04:54You even had Captain Shiv Kumar, by the way.
04:56I'm quoting people from the Indian Defense Forces.
04:58Captain Shiv Kumar, part of the Indonesian, I think, defense attache, where he went on record to say there was a political influence which inhibited the Indian defense or the Indian Army or the Indian Air Force from taking the battle to Pakistan to its logical conclusion.
05:14My last point, which is the most disappointing, and since you follow national security very closely, and I have admired you and followed you very closely, when the U.S. government, this is a U.S. congressional report, by the way, okay?
05:28This is not Prithvi Raj Chawan talking through his head.
05:31When the U.S. government, this is the U.S. government's view, and I quote from that report.
05:34The U.S. government report says on the Operation Sindhur and the Pakistan-India skirmish or the conflict, as we decide to call it, Pakistan's, this is their quote, Pakistan's military success over India showcased Chinese weaponry.
05:51Did we really contradict that?
05:52Was there any propaganda blitzkrieg by us to tackle that head on?
05:56No.
05:56We have allowed the narrative of this war to be won by Pakistan because of our own incompetence, ham-handedness, and ineptness.
06:05That is the bottom line.
06:06Prithvi Raj Chawan is raising...
06:07Respond to him, Sina.
06:10Respond to him, Sina.
06:11Prithvi Raj Chawan, according to Sanjay Jha and the Congress, is raising some very pertinent points.
06:20Yes, good evening.
06:21Gaurav, good evening, everybody.
06:22And please give me some time because, you know, Sanjay's had a long run over here.
06:26Now, Prithvi Raj Chawan's statements are problematic at two levels.
06:30One, there is zero understanding of modern warfare.
06:33When he asks, why do we need 12 black, you know, army men?
06:38For somebody who has witnessed the humiliation...
06:40I'll come to the army in just a moment.
06:41I want to stay on the aspect of air force.
06:43I was humiliation, 17 years old.
06:44And my questions are very direct.
06:45I don't know why my questions are not being answered directly either by Sanjay Jha or by you.
06:49My question is direct.
06:51Did the air force lose the battle on day one according to...
06:54So, let's come to that part.
06:56Not at all.
06:57Not at all.
06:58Does 100 terrorists being neutralized, is that, you know, is that a sign of defeat?
07:06Obviously, you know, we were not expecting, you know, for us, it was retribution.
07:10It was not an expansionist war.
07:12We recalibrated our strategy.
07:14Pakistan retaliated.
07:15And on the third day, we, you know, kind of decimated 12 PAF air bases.
07:2112 PAF air bases being destroyed.
07:24100 plus terrorists for terror crimes dating back to 1999 being neutralized.
07:30Is that a defeat for the Congress party?
07:32Where does this Congress party get this mindset from?
07:34It gets it from Rahul Gandhi.
07:36It gets it from Rahul Gandhi who barely 10 days after Operation Sindhu was halted,
07:42trying to convert a victory into surrender.
07:45And subsequently, all of the political leaders, whether it is Ghargya who called it a Chutput
07:50war, whether it is Rewan Threddy who, you know, again said Pakistan, we could not defeat
07:55Pakistan, all of their leaders are deliberately towing a pro-Pakistan line.
07:59I think Congress needs to answer that.
08:01Why do they not trust our DGMOs?
08:02Why do they not trust our DGMOs when they give a particular list of 12 PAF air bases?
08:07We may have suffered minimal damage, but that is, that is, you know, inconsequential.
08:13As Rajnath ji has explained in parliament, you don't count the amount of ink, you don't
08:17count the, you know, amount of ink which you spend in standing first in an exam.
08:21This is something which the Congress party is not able to understand today.
08:25Okay.
08:26Okay.
08:27Because this is, this is what the Pakistanis have been claiming all along, Sanjay Jha, that,
08:33you know, Indian Air Force was grounded, that Indian Air Force was defeated.
08:38The Air Force has countered it, including Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal AP Singh.
08:44But I want to bring in Sushant Sareen because few people watch Pakistan as closely as Sushant
08:50Sareen.
08:51And Sushant Sareen on day one.
08:53And I will take this day by day, need be, hour by hour.
08:58Sushant Sareen, was India defeated or was Pakistan soundly defeated with Mureetke and Bahawalpur
09:06hit for the first time ever?
09:08Something that I don't know why India seems to want to, or some Indians want to downplay,
09:14hitting terror at its headquarters.
09:16Lashkar-e-Taiwa and Jaish-e-Mohmad at their headquarters in Pakistan's Punjab province.
09:20You're on mute, Sushant.
09:29Sorry.
09:30Some Indians that you're talking about, they are Indians who revel in the prospect and the
09:37possibility of India being defeated, humiliated, because that is what they believe will shine
09:43their politics.
09:44So, they will do everything to undermine India and they follow the Jinnah dictum that
09:50you have to destroy India.
09:52You will either destroy India or you will rule it.
09:56And there is no other way.
09:58So, they are hell-bent on doing what they are doing.
10:01Hopefully, you know, they will not get the chance.
10:03But people like Prithviraj Chauhan, who I at least at one point of time believed was one
10:09of the most enlightened leaders of the Congress party.
10:13I suppose the rest of the Congress seems to have rubbed off on him as well.
10:17So, he's made a ridiculous statement.
10:19Now, let's look at the factual part of it.
10:22What was the objective of Operation Sindur?
10:24That either we will do what the Congress party was doing all along, that a terrorist would
10:29come, attack, kill 160 people in cold blood, and you would have no response or you would
10:35seek permission from Pakistan to attack Pakistan.
10:38Either you would do that, okay?
10:40Or you would say that, no, we are going to hit back and we will hit back hard.
10:44We don't want a wider war.
10:46We want a limited operation.
10:48But we will strike back.
10:50So, you struck back, you hit nine terrorist bases, and then there was a political decision
10:58which was taken that you don't want a wider war.
11:00You want a punitive operation.
11:03So, you went and did it.
11:04The Pakistanis retaliated, as the air marshal has very correctly said.
11:07The Pakistanis retaliate.
11:09You are prepared for it.
11:10I don't know whether we took any hits.
11:12Maybe we did.
11:13Maybe we didn't.
11:13Maybe there was some damage.
11:15We don't know.
11:15But whenever something like this comes from the adversary, you recalibrate and you hit
11:21back.
11:22So, right from day two onwards, you will see the drone attacks and the attacks on air defense
11:29systems in Pakistan, in Lahore, in Islamabad, in other places.
11:33Now, all of this is on television.
11:35Now, people like Sanjay Jagan keep repeating that old stuff which they keep repeating all
11:40the time.
11:40They keep regurgitating their own lies, thinking that it will become the truth.
11:43But the fact of the matter remains, right from the second day and the third day, when
11:48unfortunately, you guys unnecessarily exacerbated Indian successes when we were hitting Karachi,
11:55not the port, we were hitting the Karachi air defense systems in the Malir Kant.
12:00Malir Kant is Karachi, heart of Karachi, right?
12:04People who probably have seen Dhurandar, there were some people who are allergic to movies
12:08like Dhurandar would not have seen it.
12:09But maybe they can see a map of Karachi to understand where Malir cantonment is.
12:13And they'll get to know, hitting Malir cantonment, what an achievement that is.
12:18But forget Malir cantonment.
12:19A whole range of air defense systems were taken out on day two and day three.
12:24And on day four, that particular night, the 10th, early morning, when the Pakistanis were
12:29wanting to announce their Banyan Chadi operation, what happened?
12:33All their big air bases were taken out.
12:35Their command and control systems were taken out.
12:37What else do you think prompted them to follow?
12:39Sir, I'll come to day two, three and four in just a moment.
12:42Sir, I completely agree with you.
12:43Because I have followed this.
12:46If this is the definition of defeat for Congress, then what does one say about a party like this?
12:51I'm glad that they are in opposition and I hope they will never come to power.
12:57That's all I can say.
12:57Okay, so that's for the electorate to decide, Sushant Sareen.
13:01But I want to bring in Sanjay Jha since you specifically named him.
13:04And before I bring in General Sanjay Meston who joins me on this broadcast, General, welcome.
13:08Sanjay Jha, you know, day one, we've in this country, and you live in the city of Mumbai, right?
13:17We've had 2611 Mumbai terror attacks.
13:19We did not hit back.
13:20We've had 1993 terror attacks in Mumbai, serial blasts in Mumbai, we did not hit back.
13:26We've had a number of attacks.
13:27This is the first time that Pakistan was hit in Punjab province, in Muridke, in Bahawalpur.
13:34Nine terror camps destroyed, taken out, hundred plus terrorists killed.
13:40Pakistanis are crying.
13:42But then they say India ki defeat hoi, our own leaders say India was defeated on day one.
13:47Sir, how does this add up?
13:48Does Prithvirat Chavan or the Congress Party not see Muridke and Bahawalpur being hit for the first time ever?
13:56Gaurav, give me again adequate time.
13:59I won't take too long.
14:00The Congress Party does not have to explain to you any right-wing political analyst or some sanghi sympathizers about its role in India's history.
14:09Besides the freedom struggle, decisive war victories against Pakistan in 1947, 1965 and 1971.
14:16So let me refresh that very COVID-driven memory.
14:22Point number two, very important, that you know, Gaurav, you know it.
14:26Heads of state have their own political roles to play.
14:31When Donald Trump goes to the United Nations, and I'm quoting Donald Trump because he's Modi's counterpart.
14:36He goes to the United Nations after making over 30, 100 statements that he brokered a ceasefire that prevented a nuclear annihilation between two countries.
14:48He said that seven big, beautiful jets were brought down.
14:52Did you hear India's Prime Minister contradict him?
14:55In fact, the news media is flooded.
14:57But did he say Indian jets or Pakistani jets?
15:00Why is somebody presuming it's Indian jets?
15:03Did he specify which country is jets?
15:05Because Chief of Air Staff went on record to say that Pakistani jets were destroyed.
15:09F-16s, JF-17s, AWNC aircraft.
15:13Yeah, Gaurav, one minute, one minute.
15:15Let me explain to you.
15:16I said big, beautiful jets.
15:18I didn't say which country.
15:19It could have been three, four, or whichever country.
15:21That is not the point.
15:22The point is that the Indian government, and I've read the U.S. Congress report redacted paragraph as well.
15:28The Indian government, particularly India's Prime Minister, has been very, very circumspect, if not altogether silent, on taking on Mr. Donald Trump.
15:38That's exactly the reason why there is a lot of obfuscation, and the narrative war has been actually dominated by Pakistan.
15:45Because the Indian Prime Minister has been found to be weak when he's been called to take on Donald Trump, which is the reason why there has been a lot of speculative gossip.
15:54And I think the Indian Defence Forces deserve better.
15:57Nobody's talking about the bravery or the capability or the success of the Indian military forces.
16:03The question is, India's political masters have agreed to stand up for our country.
16:07Air staff went on record.
16:09Chief of air staff, Air Chief Marshal AP Singh, giving details of the six Pakistani jets that were downed.
16:17He said so in as many words.
16:19He's the air chief, Air Chief Marshal AP Singh.
16:21He gave details of the longest hit that destroyed a Pakistani AEWNC aircraft, airborne early warning command and control aircraft, 300 kilometers away, deep inside Pakistan.
16:33The longest hit by an S-400.
16:35But then we say it's India's defeat.
16:37But the very pertinent point made by Sanjay Jha, Tuhin Sinha, is India losing the narrative war.
16:43Because even the air chief spoke months later.
16:46The narrative, Pakistan ran away with it from day one, saying what it said even in 1965, incidentally, we have downed six Indian jets on day one.
16:55That's the narrative.
16:56That's the template.
16:57And BJP or the government has learned nothing from the template.
17:00You know, Gaurav, if the Congress Party had just followed the DGMO's press conference in detail on 11th May after one day after the ceasefire,
17:11if they had followed the Prime Minister's address to the nation the next day on 12th May and the explainer of India's foreign secretary on 18 June after Prime Minister Modi had a telephone conversation with Donald Trump,
17:25they would have no doubts about the reasons for the ceasefire and how the ceasefire happened.
17:30But the problem is, this Congress Party does not trust the Indian establishment, the Indian government.
17:35Rahul Gandhi did not trust it during Doklam, where instead of reaching out to the Defense Minister, he reached out to the Chinese embassy.
17:41They don't trust, tend to trust the Indian government.
17:43And so far, as the communication goes, you know, please understand Donald Trump has said many different things to many different countries.
17:52You know, it is for the Congress Party to count how many times he said what, but these three detailed explanations were sufficient if the Congress Party,
18:01the problem with this Congress Party is that it is overcome, still overcome by guilt of its inaction over the last many decades.
18:09You know, it knows that it squandered away, gave away 40,000 square kilometers of land to China.
18:14It knows that it could not react after any of the terror attacks between 2004 to 2014.
18:19It is their guilt which makes it very difficult to accept that now we have a government which takes decisive action,
18:26which more than compensates for the enemy action.
18:29This is something which the Congress Party has not been able to digest.
18:31I want to bring in General Meston, and General Meston has been very patiently listening to this conversation.
18:35General, welcome.
18:36General Meston, you study military history, you analyze military operations,
18:41and in your appreciation, was Indian Air Force defeated on day one as senior Congress leader
18:49and former Maharashtra Chief Minister Prithvirat Chawad claims?
18:52I am very, very clear.
18:54Luckily, I was on Aftab channel the same very night when the operation happened,
18:59and thereafter one was covering this in so many media channels.
19:03And I am very clear we had a total victory.
19:06The purpose of armed forces is very, very clear.
19:09In war, there are no runners-up.
19:12And the Indian Armed Forces has given a befitting reply and a befitting message and defeat.
19:18To Pakistan Armed Forces, it was very, very clear.
19:20It was seen by the entire world.
19:23Narrative building is not defined by President Trump.
19:27As it is, we have heard what his chief of staff has stated,
19:31the chief of staff of Donald Trump in the White House, what has she stated about him.
19:35So, narratives are defined by the Indian Armed Forces,
19:39and the political military objectives were established or set by the government of India,
19:45the present government of India, and that was executed in the most precise manner.
19:49Now, day one, coming on to day one's operation, I think we have executed it with such finish,
19:55there was no collateral damage.
19:57There are two wars going on today.
19:59Russia, Ukraine, and of course, Israel, Hamas is not over.
20:02We have seen the collateral damage done in these two wars.
20:07Did India do any collateral damage?
20:09No.
20:10The 100-plus terrorists were killed in the first day of strike.
20:14Successful operations, total surprise achieved over the enemy.
20:18So, I would say it was total victory.
20:20And who begged for the ceasefire?
20:22It is the Pakistan DGMO who asked for ceasefire.
20:25And I will come to that in just a moment.
20:30You are absolutely right.
20:31So, you are all on day four.
20:32I am staying on day one.
20:34When it comes to the element of surprise, Air Marshal Kapoor, let's be fair,
20:39the Chinese satellite intelligence did give a heads-up to Pakistan.
20:44The information that's coming out is even when our aircraft were, you know, forming up for their strikes,
20:51the Chinese satellites were warning them, forewarning and forearming the Pakistanis.
20:56And that is why, you know, reports seem to indicate that the Pakistanis also had not to deny that India hit nine targets successfully,
21:06including Mureetke and Bahawalpur.
21:08But is there merit in the fact that Prithvirat Chawad mentions IEF was completely grounded,
21:16not a single aircraft was flying.
21:19If any aircraft had taken off from Gwalior, Batinda or Sirsa, there was high probability of it being shot down.
21:26How would you view this statement of Prithvirat Chawad?
21:30I can say that air operations are best left to the professionals.
21:38This discussion coming up seven months after Oksandur is itself surprising.
21:43Absolutely surprising.
21:44If we were discussing next week after Oksandur, this discussion, it was understood.
21:48To make up an issue wherein you just cover a specific, like complete narrative after Oksandur,
21:55is India lost these many aeroplanes.
21:58Did Chinese ever say how many soldiers did they lose in Galwan?
22:01Did Americans now tell how many drones and aircraft did they lose in Yemen or Iraq strike when they came and struck?
22:08They lost.
22:09Has Rai ever covered how many aircraft have they lost in Hamas conflict or conflict with Hezbollah?
22:16No.
22:17No opposition asked ever their countrymen to show proof.
22:21If you remember, Chief of Air Staff made a statement, the ghost of Balakot has been buried.
22:27This is a statement which came in a headline and you had covered the program.
22:31The ghost of Balakot is that any conflict which the Indian armed forces take, you know, any conflict,
22:37with Uri, with Balakot, the proof has...
22:44Surgical strike, Balakot and this, yes.
22:46So, this time the armed forces went in with proof, every strike, every mission, every damage
22:55has been put in satellite imagery to complete word from day one.
23:01And you see, I'll give you an example of Raheem Yarkhand.
23:04Raheem Yarkhand was struck on 10th and that airfield has not come up till October.
23:10For six months to fill up a 90-feet crater in an international airfield of Pakistan which
23:17operates military flights also indicates the extent of damage that has been done.
23:23Now, it is a part of tactics that after strike we disperse.
23:27So, just to say that, you know, we got scared and we could not fly, in my opinion, is not
23:32a correct statement.
23:34Okay.
23:35Sushant Sareen, Pakistan wasn't just surprised.
23:39Pakistan was shocked it could be hit in its Punjab province because that was Pakistan's
23:44red line.
23:46Not only was Pakistan's red line crossed, hitting them in Mureetka and Bahawalpur, multiple air
23:51bases from Noor Khan to Sargodha to Raheem Yarkhand to Jacob Abad to Bulari Sindh, as you
23:58pointed out, they were targeted.
24:00Does that indicate India's defeat?
24:02So, yeah, that's exactly the point I wanted to make.
24:07Look, the word that somebody who's, I don't know why he said that, but he's a former chief
24:15minister, for example.
24:16For somebody as senior as that to say that India was defeated.
24:20Now, the word defeated has a certain connotation.
24:24If India was defeated and our air force was totally finished on the very first day, in
24:2930 minutes of conflict as Prithviraj Chawan, the great military genius after Maternik seems
24:35to have discovered.
24:37Please ask him what happened two days later?
24:39The airfields that you're talking about India targeting, they were targeted by Indian aircraft.
24:48These were air to surface missiles, right?
24:51These were not fired from surface to surface.
24:53So, Indian air force was dominating the air on the third day or the fourth day.
24:59How was that happening if India had already been defeated?
25:02If India had already been defeated on the very first day, how was Indian air force flying
25:06on the third and the fourth day?
25:08So, yes, maybe some surprise was pulled by the Pakistanis as we pulled a surprise on them
25:14and then we recalibrated.
25:16We understood what the, we always knew of a collusivity between China and Pakistan.
25:23But what was the extent of that?
25:25If you get to know and then you recalibrate your strategy accordingly, you fix those gaps
25:31which were there, which you have now discovered and you recoup and you regroup and you go and
25:36hit the bugger where it hurts him.
25:39What is the problem?
25:40Is that the defeat according to this great Maratha warrior?
25:43You know, there were the Marathas who went up to the attack and now you have Prithviraj Chawan.
25:47So, it tells you what kind of, you know, the depths to which things have fallen.
25:52No, because I want to understand from Sanjay Jha because Sanjay Jha is a very reasonable
25:56man and Sanjay Jha has an analytical mind.
25:59Sanjay Jha, never in the history of air war between India and Pakistan have we hit so many
26:07air bases decimating their command and control system.
26:11And we've hit Pakistan in 65 and 71.
26:14But the expanse of the hit, you've hit him in Sargoda, you've hit him in Jacob Abad,
26:20in Raheem Yahr Khan, in Rafiki, in Mushaf.
26:24Nour Khan is his command and control center.
26:26In Rawalpindi, you've hit him.
26:28It's like hitting him in his capital.
26:31And yet, Prithviraj Chawan says it's India's defeat.
26:33Gaurav, I think the elephant in the room is not what Prithviraj Chawan said.
26:41The real, I would say, seminal issue is, why did India agree to a ceasefire within three days?
26:48Let me explain that.
26:49We were the ones who lost innocent people in Pehalgaam, who were slaughtered in cold blood.
26:55India had a legitimate right to attack Pakistan, to send out a message and create as much of
27:00damage to terror infrastructure.
27:02I don't think Prithviraj Chawan or anybody from the opposition hasn't stood up for India
27:06right from that moment and said, we are with the government in whatever steps you take.
27:11The issue that comes up, and I quoted for you General VP Malik and several other political
27:16and defense analysts who said that, listen, you needed more than three days.
27:21You hadn't had advantage.
27:23You made, you made, you destroyed some core infrastructure, airfields, etc.
27:28Was that the time for India to back out?
27:30I mean, that is the point.
27:32I mean, today you have had a Red Fort bombing, right?
27:35Terror is not going to come to an end overnight.
27:37Gaurav, can I?
27:38Insusceptible, because if we had an opportunity, Gaurav, to actually carry on extensively damaging,
27:46more dangerous, shall we say, you know, distributed terror networks across Pakistan,
27:52they are not just based in one part.
27:53Everybody who knows defense knows that whether it's Jayshay, whether it's Lashkar-e-Toyba,
27:58they're all over the place.
27:59They're not, you know, kind of concentrated in one area.
28:03Could we have done more?
28:04That is the question.
28:05But sir, you hit them in Mureed K, you hit them in Bahawalpur, and you hit 11 airbases.
28:12You destroyed multiple radar stations from Chunyan to Pasroor to Malir contornment.
28:18But be that as it may, I completely take your point.
28:20Why didn't India hit deeper, hit harder, and continue to hit stronger?
28:24I'm with you on that.
28:25But, okay, you want to come in and respond.
28:27You want to come in and respond, Tuhin, and then Sushant Sareen.
28:33Yes, you know...
28:34Tuhin, quickly respond, sir.
28:35You know, Sanjay needs to understand, you know, Prithviraj Chauhan,
28:38Prithviraj Chauhan may not be able to understand it,
28:40but Sanjay needs to understand that the reasons for ceasefire are dictated by the objectives of the conflict.
28:46What were the objectives of this conflict over here?
28:49Retribution, and when we, when we decimated 12 of the PAF airbases,
28:54when we killed 100 terrorists, the objectives in the short term were accomplished.
28:59When we agreed to the ceasefire, the message was very clear,
29:03you misbehave again, and we will give more than a fitting reply.
29:07We did not want a prolonged conflict.
29:09We have seen the result of the conflict in different parts of the world.
29:13This new and sing...
29:15Sorry?
29:19They have misbehaved again, sir, the Red Fort blast.
29:22Yes, Red Fort blast.
29:24Pakistan state-sponsored radical Islamist terror is misbehaving again.
29:27Let the, let the, let the, let the, let the, let the trail, let the trail be established.
29:32The message is very clear, whether it was Uri, whether it was Palwama.
29:36We are not going to behave the way Congress behaved after 26-11.
29:41The message to Pakistan is clear.
29:43But like I said, it's too rich of the Congress to lecture us on ceasefire.
29:46When we have made the reasons for ceasefire, when we have been on top of Pakistan across,
29:51you know, in the, in the five days of Operation Sindur, and, you know, Congress should stop
29:55behaving like in, in modern warfare.
29:58Misinformation is a very important component.
30:00Why should Congress party seem like, you know, the behavior seem like, you know, the enemy
30:04has outsourced that objective to this Congress party?
30:06That is exactly how they are behaving.
30:08They are not even asking the right questions.
30:10That's a grave charge.
30:11That's a grave charge.
30:12Sanjay Jha, quickly, quickly, Sanjay Jha, you know, misinformation has been outsourced to
30:18the Congress's, the BJP's allegations, sir.
30:20Oh, I can tell you, I can understand the political frustration of the BJP because they have always
30:25used the defense for their own political purposes.
30:28They're unethical, unprincipled, immoral.
30:30But in this case, they blew up an opportunity to actually put Pakistan in the corner that
30:35Pakistan deserved to be.
30:37And we allowed Pakistan's misinformation and disinformation campaign to actually put
30:42India in an awkward position.
30:44So, you know, you wanted to come in on that point that Pakistan had scored a point.
30:49Look, one, I agree with Sanjay that we botched up how we handled the strategic communications.
30:56I have no compunctions in saying that it was a completely botched up operation.
31:01Whoever was in charge of it, you know, really needs to be sacked.
31:04Having said that, on, look, you know, Sanjay is, again, I would agree with Sanjay, we should
31:10have gone and destroyed Pakistan.
31:12But that was not one, the objective.
31:14Secondly, you know, people have always raised questions in 1948, why didn't we stop at the
31:19LOC?
31:20Why didn't we recapture the whole of POK?
31:23This problem would not have existed, right?
31:26In 1971, why did we accept a ceasefire after liberating East Pakistan or Bangladesh?
31:34Why didn't we press on in Kashmir and defeat Pakistan comprehensively in the Western Front?
31:41Why didn't we do it?
31:42These are always questions which are raised, Gaurav.
31:45But the point is that in this particular case, once you have beaten the enemy, would Sanjay
31:52prefer that we did what the Israelis have done in Gaza?
31:56Continue the operation, continue the operation, continue the operation for two years?
32:00I would not have had a problem had we done it with Pakistan.
32:03But I am sure Sanjay Jaha, who probably has a lot of problems with the Israelis, because
32:09you know, he believes that he doesn't agree with the Israelis in anything, including, I
32:15don't know whether he even…
32:17But you know, I want to bring in General Meston on the second aspect that Prithvirat Chavan
32:23also raised.
32:24He said, do we need a standing army of 15 lakhs when army didn't move a kilometer?
32:31And General Meston, your take on this?
32:34Because from what I was told by my sources and on authority, that it was the army that
32:38destroyed seven of nine targets on day one.
32:41It was the army that destroyed some of the radars and the seven of nine terror targets and
32:46especially those in Pakistan-occupied Jambu and Kashmir, sir.
32:50General Meston.
32:50Yeah, absolutely, Gaurav, there is no doubt, the seven targets in POK and also Punjab were
32:56hit by the Indian army.
32:57And of course, the balance two were hit by the Air Force, that is Murilke and Mahabalpur.
33:01And that is what I was mentioning, they were hit by such precision-oriented.
33:05And today, if you just don't have armed forces, I think this is the most ridiculous thought
33:09ever someone can talk about.
33:11The entire JNK today requires so much forces and today we are talking about having both
33:16large number of forces, including in the Nadab sector, because today we are
33:20have two collusive enemies, whether it is on the northern front or whether it is on the
33:25western front.
33:26And today, when the way Bangladesh is gone, I would say the requirement of the armed forces
33:30is definitely going to go up.
33:32So it is a very futile question to be raised by anyone, questioning the requirement of the
33:37armed forces for our country.
33:39I think India has been strong only because of the armed forces and the whole nation knows
33:43it.
33:43Second perk, I would just like to highlight the previous discussion.
33:48Israel, Hamas, what was the political objective of Prime Minister Netanyahu, political military
33:52objective, destroy Hamas?
33:54Was it achieved?
33:55The answer is no, it was not achieved because since last two years plus, when the bodies were
34:02being handed over, you saw so many Hamas cadres were there in huge numbers, was it destroyed?
34:07So what I am trying to say is, in war, you have to define everything with political, military
34:12objective, and the intent was very, very clear that we have to teach the perpetrators of the
34:17terrorists and destroy the terrorist camp.
34:19We did not have a larger end.
34:22Okay.
34:23You know, I have run out of time on this part of the show.
34:26I must tell you, the former Maharashtra Chief Minister's statement is actually going viral
34:30across the border.
34:31They are rejoicing in their claims that such a tall leader has made a statement like this.
34:38But for those Pakistanis and for people across the country and the world watching India today,
34:45India not only destroyed nine terror bases on day one, subsequently destroyed multiple
34:52radar stations, punched holes through Pakistan's air defense, took out their radars from Malir
34:57contornment in Karachi to Chuniyan and Pasroor, and then destroyed multiple Pakistani air bases,
35:05some that are still not 100% operational, from their main command and control center, which
35:10is Noor Khan in Rawalpindi, to Jacob Abad, to Raheem Yarkhan, to Rafiki, to Mushaf, to Sargoda,
35:18to Bholari in Sindh, across the length and breadth of Pakistan.
35:24Is that victory or defeat?
35:26I'll let you decide that for yourself.
35:29But the threat remains, including of the fifth column.
35:35We will track that story very closely.
35:37That is all I have for you on this special broadcast.
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