00:00Joining us now is S. Guru Moorthy, RSS ideologue and editor of the Tughlaq magazine.
00:07Mr. Guru Moorthy, I appreciate your time.
00:08In light of the SIT report, highlighting around 70 CCTV documented incidents of donation theft,
00:18serious supervisory lapses, and the trust's decision now to accept resignations of key figures
00:25like Champadra and Anil Mishra, which happened yesterday,
00:28they're also planning a CEO role.
00:31You know, somebody like a CEO should be overseeing the functioning.
00:35Do you believe these steps are enough to restore the faith of millions of devotees
00:40who contributed with deep shraddha?
00:45First, a correction, I am not an RSS ideologue.
00:49So everybody calls me an RSS ideologue.
00:52RSS has not appointed me as its ideologue.
00:57Editor of the Tughlaq magazine.
00:59I don't want the media to keep giving descriptions about Tughlaq.
01:03I can't correct it.
01:03Okay, I'm going to remove that also from the ticker.
01:06So I'll say editor of Tughlaq magazine.
01:09I am an editor of Tughlaq and I comment as an individual.
01:13Sure, sir.
01:13See, first you must understand, the entire media, including you, are caught in contextual sensationalism.
01:24See, it is not that theft will not take place in any particular place.
01:29Every place, theft will take place.
01:31It is not that theft doesn't take place in temples.
01:34It has happened.
01:35In Puri, it has happened.
01:37In Prudhanava Swami, it has happened.
01:39In Tamil Nadu, it has been going on for decades.
01:43And 48 years, things are not being attended to.
01:47Courts had to intervene.
01:48But, see the stark contrast here.
01:51This is what I have pointed out in my article today.
01:54It doesn't require much investigation today.
01:57You know, artificial intelligence gives you everything on the...
02:00It says the way the Ram Temple Trust reacted, responded to this, is a stark contrast.
02:09Where, in other cases, there have been attempts to delay decades.
02:15And the people who were in position were trying to keep their position at government's cost.
02:22And, see here, they voluntarily resign.
02:25And they also submit themselves to a five-year audit.
02:29All other trusts resist the audit.
02:31This is the macro view.
02:34These are all the things that will restore the people who are hurt.
02:38You see, nobody is going to lose trust in Ram because of this.
02:43I can assure you.
02:44They may feel hurt that this is happening even in Ram Temple.
02:47Because Ram Temple is not just a temple of faith.
02:51It is a temple which transformed the polity of India.
02:56And it is associated with Ram Rajya.
02:59And it is ethical governance.
03:02So, it has a much higher responsibility than other trusts.
03:05There I agree with you.
03:06But, that there is no action being taken.
03:10Nobody can say that.
03:10But, there was only a six-day delay between the 7th of June and 13th of June.
03:17The trust did not understand the extent of the manageability.
03:23If it is manageable, if persons have stolen money and if they are willing to deposit the money, first recover
03:29that money.
03:30Afterwards, think of action.
03:31Which is normally anybody will do.
03:33I have advised the people.
03:34But, first try and recover the money, identify the people so that the money is not lost.
03:40This is what they were attempting to do.
03:42Six days was the only delay.
03:4513th, they go and ask the government to constitute the SIT.
03:48And, the SIT investigates the matter on the 25th, the SIT registers an FAR because they see somebody stealing the
03:55money.
03:56Because, you cannot register an FAR without evidence.
03:59Even the SIT took 13 days, 12 days to get the first evidence of theft.
04:06Then, only they registered an FAR.
04:08The moment the FAR was registered, then the two trustees resigned.
04:12Because, they were in charge of the entire complex.
04:15So, you cannot say there was no action, morally strong action, legally strong action has been taken.
04:23I don't think the media has even highlighted it.
04:25No, no, we are highlighting…
04:27Mr. Guru Murthy, the question that is being asked here is largely to do with the role of Mr. Champath
04:35Rai,
04:35who, so far, in the preliminary interim SIT report that we have, he doesn't find any mention.
04:43It's largely to do with Anil Mishra, the other trustee.
04:47But, as the General Secretary of the Trust, someone who was appointed in 2020,
04:53lots being, you know, asked in his context, or questions being asked about his role,
05:00somebody on the top.
05:01The sense is that the upper management is being protected,
05:06while those who were largely seen as workers are being punished.
05:13You see, I'll tell you, you can, you can, you can make any sense out of his situation, but,
05:20Champath Rai has resigned, and he was also investigated, he was also questioned by the SIT,
05:27even before resignation.
05:30Did you notice that?
05:32Yes.
05:33We reported it.
05:33If somebody is being questioned, who is being left out?
05:37And if Champath Rai says that X has stolen money, and I have nothing to do with it,
05:43if that is not true, X is going to say, gentlemen, you also know about it.
05:48So, in a criminal, I am a criminal investigator myself,
05:51and I have investigated, I mean, multifarious, I know, I don't know whether the current generation
05:58of media people know it.
06:00I have been an investigator from 1985.
06:03The most critical investigations I have done,
06:06here the only matter to be investigated is not record.
06:09For the media's clarity, I will tell you,
06:12it is only, only the CCTV, which is the evidence,
06:15and the oral evidence to be recorded from people.
06:18There is nothing like a record here,
06:20because the monies were kept outside the record.
06:25It is only through CCTV,
06:27you will be able to find out what are the suspicious movements.
06:30And then you have to ask those people,
06:32why are you moving like this?
06:33What were you taking by hand?
06:36So, only CCTV
06:38and oral evidence interrogation
06:40is the only way to find out the truth in this case.
06:43Yes.
06:44And the CCTV was taken possession of
06:47by the SIT
06:49in, on 13th June.
06:51And they began operating the whole thing.
06:54So, the entire,
06:54afterwards, somebody asked me,
06:56is Champatharai not in charge of it?
06:59Not.
07:00Because the SIT has come and sat there.
07:02So, Champatharai was the figurehead.
07:04You cannot, you see,
07:05he cannot run away from managing the temple.
07:07Thousands and thousands of people are coming.
07:09So,
07:10I know Champatharai for 30 years.
07:13The man will not even take a cup of tea
07:15at the cost of Ram.
07:17Okay, he has to go through this process.
07:19He has to prove himself.
07:20But the fact is,
07:21that if he has done anything wrong,
07:23the people under him
07:25will never leave him out.
07:27Why not we wait?
07:28Why not we cast doubts on him?
07:32Okay.
07:33Mr. Guru Murthy,
07:34then tell me about,
07:35you know,
07:36there are multiple successful models
07:38of temple trusts
07:40across the country.
07:42Do you think
07:43the SIT,
07:44now there is a need
07:46for that model
07:48to be adopted
07:48at,
07:49in,
07:50in the context of Ram temple as well?
07:52To fully rebuild
07:53public confidence.
07:55I am also a systems consultant.
07:58You frame a system,
08:00the system doesn't take immediate effect.
08:02You know,
08:03one of the best systems
08:04in India available
08:06is the Tirupati model.
08:08You know,
08:08in Tirupati also
08:09there are allegations of theft.
08:11It was improved
08:13from time to time.
08:14So,
08:15there is no system
08:16which will
08:17immediately take effect.
08:18You have to train the people.
08:19And you have to ensure
08:21that basic
08:22honesty
08:23is there
08:24in the
08:24whole ecosystem.
08:26But too many things
08:28are happening
08:28in Ram temple.
08:29Collection,
08:30temple construction.
08:32And you know,
08:33I don't think anyone
08:34had time
08:34to look into
08:35purely the
08:37administration
08:38and the procedures.
08:39There is a lapse.
08:41And to that extent,
08:42the Ram Jan Bhumi
08:43trust is responsible
08:45for not living up
08:47to the standards
08:48of
08:48Ram Rajya.
08:50I agree.
08:52But to say
08:53that something,
08:54a scam has happened,
08:55there will be a scam
08:56only if there is
08:57an attempt to protect.
08:59Like other cases,
09:00nothing has happened.
09:01There is nothing.
09:02Who says anything
09:03has happened?
09:04We will not file
09:04a police complaint.
09:05We will not do anything.
09:07Nothing has happened here.
09:08Everything is rumored.
09:09This is how others do.
09:11But here,
09:12one question is raised.
09:13Like in the case of
09:15what was done with Sita,
09:17immediately Ram reacted.
09:19That is what has
09:20happened here.
09:21A question was raised.
09:22Even the trustees
09:23did not know
09:24what was happening.
09:25SIT came.
09:27Even SIT took
09:2813 days
09:29to get the first
09:30evidence of theft.
09:32Why don't you
09:32go into it?
09:33Police people
09:34are trained
09:35for this purpose.
09:36If SIT takes
09:3813 days
09:38to find out
09:39the first evidence
09:40of a movement,
09:41theft movement,
09:43what will the trustees do?
09:45So,
09:45the trustees did
09:46what they are
09:47supposed to do,
09:48namely,
09:49that this has happened,
09:51try to recover
09:52the money
09:52as much as possible
09:53and maybe we will
09:55be able to recover
09:56everything.
09:56They did not know
09:57even the extent
09:58of the problem.
09:59So,
09:59that is where
10:01probably they went wrong.
10:02They should have
10:03immediately handed over
10:04the case to SIT.
10:05Even then,
10:07as I told you,
10:07SIT took 13 days.
10:09He didn't act
10:10the next day
10:10because he did not
10:11have the evidence.
10:12Why not the media
10:13go through this process
10:14to understand
10:15how there has been
10:17no lapse at all
10:18except six days?
10:20Okay.
10:21But the question
10:22will be asked
10:23about buck stops
10:24with whom,
10:24if not,
10:25the top management
10:26of the Temple Trust.
10:29About who?
10:32There has been
10:33embezzlement
10:34there has been
10:35embezzlement
10:36embezzlement
10:37is there.
10:37I am telling you
10:38there is no space
10:39which is not
10:40available to thieves.
10:42Which space
10:43is not?
10:43It is taking place
10:44in churches,
10:45it is taking place
10:45in masks,
10:46it is taking place
10:47in temples
10:47and you know
10:48what happened
10:49in Puri,
10:50it happened
10:51in Chabarimala,
10:52what happened.
10:53I mean,
10:53this takes place.
10:54But how do you
10:56act against it
10:57is important.
10:58That is what
10:58in my article
11:00said,
11:00you need not
11:01have to do anything
11:01a 10th class
11:02student moving
11:03a mouse
11:04will be able
11:05to find out
11:05how the
11:06Ramjan Bhumi's
11:08reaction is
11:09a temple trust
11:10is a stark
11:12difference
11:12in reacting
11:14in days.
11:16Whereas others
11:17took years
11:18and not only
11:19that the trustees
11:20began defending
11:21themselves
11:21at government's
11:22cost.
11:23See the
11:24difference.
11:25The transparency
11:26see with which
11:27the Ram temple
11:28trust reacted
11:30actually requires
11:31some kind of
11:32acknowledgement
11:32and compliment
11:33from media.
11:35To say that
11:37something hugely
11:38wrong has happened,
11:38you keep on
11:39doing it.
11:40That is why
11:40Hal Jazeera said
11:41as if it is a
11:42billion dollar
11:42haze.
11:43What you are
11:44doing is only
11:45aiding the
11:45de-branding of
11:46India outside.
11:47See Indian
11:48media has a
11:48responsibility to
11:49India also.
11:51We must also
11:52see,
11:53we must see
11:53fairly,
11:54how the
11:55Ram temple
11:56trust has
11:56handled this
11:57matter as
11:58compared to
11:58the government
11:59trust.
12:00Okay.
12:02Mr. S.
12:03Gurumurthy,
12:04pleasure having
12:04you on the
12:05show.
12:06S.
12:06Gurumurthy
12:06there saying
12:07and complimenting
12:08the Ram temple
12:09trust saying
12:10the manner in
12:11which they have
12:11handled and
12:12how it has
12:13functioned in
12:14matter of
12:15days should
12:16be an
12:17example of
12:18sort.
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