00:00But, Air Marshal Kapoor, let me begin by asking you, on day one, was the Indian Air Force defeated and grounded?
00:12Absolutely not. The warfare is not, you know, spoken in studios and it is not discussed, the people with armchairs, sitting on chairs, the way we are discussing warfare.
00:26In any conflict, we took the preemptive and thereafter it is, you know, something called as denying the retaliation was the process which is followed everywhere.
00:40So, when you begin a conflict, thereafter you have to fall back, assess. And that is what the Indian Air Force did on the first day.
00:48We took out the nine targets, the aim being to convey that we have just hit the terrorist targets which perpetrated the Pahlgham incident.
00:59So, had the enemy decided, they would have left the conflict there only.
01:03But, knowing them, knowing the tactics, we were expecting a retaliation.
01:09And in that, all our assets, immediately after the first strike, were put on high alert.
01:15Be it our fighters, be it our surface-to-air missiles, be it our radars, be it our electronic warfare equipment.
01:23And these were put immediately because we were expecting a backlash.
01:27And as a part of tactics, all the assets, say again.
01:33Fair enough. I want to bring in Sanjay Jha for a quick response.
01:36Sanjay Jha, what would you make of Prithvirat Chavan's statement?
01:40He is former Chief Minister of Maharashtra.
01:43He has served in the Prime Minister's office.
01:46Why would he say something like this?
01:49Good evening, Gaurav, to you and to my fellow panelists on the program.
01:53This is a very serious subject because a lot of people have made allegations, starting with the BJP.
01:59And since I believe the BJP is a very farcical political party, I need to kind of address this head-on.
02:07This is, to start with, this is a political party that still has to apologize to the people of India for Pulwama and Pahlgham.
02:14That has not yet even happened as we talk.
02:17But let's address what Mr. Chavan has mentioned.
02:20Let me make a disclaimer, Gaurav, right at the very beginning.
02:23In all honesty, not only has he been a senior colleague of mine in the Congress, he's a very dear friend of mine.
02:29Now, let me just make the point.
02:31And I will come to critical points of what he said.
02:34Go back to what General VP Malik, Chief of Army Staff during the Kargil War, the tweet that he made when the ceasefire was announced.
02:42What did he say?
02:43He said categorically in his tweet, what did we achieve by this abrupt ceasefire?
02:48Sir, we launched the attack.
02:51And the question that both and eminent General VP Malik, I don't think anybody is like him on the panel with due respects.
02:57If he says that what did we achieve, the question that we need to introspect on since we launched the attack on Pakistan, justified.
03:06What did we really suddenly bring the ceasefire for?
03:09Number two, you have the CDS.
03:13Sir, my question to you is very specific.
03:15He says on day one, we were defeated.
03:18On day one, we were defeated.
03:21Was Indian Air Force defeated on day one?
03:24He's a dear friend of yours.
03:25He's a senior Congress leader.
03:27His statements are now going viral in Pakistan that Indian Air Force was defeated.
03:32Pakistan says this.
03:33Why would a senior Congress leader say this?
03:36Why do you think India was defeated on day one?
03:39Gaurav, since you're in your panel of four, and if I include you five people, I'm the only one who has got to explain the rationale behind Mr. Chawan's statement.
03:51It will only be pertinent and fair if you do not interrupt me till I put my point of view on the table.
03:57And I'm not going to take too long.
03:58I'm not going to indulge in verbal diarrhea like the Indian Prime Minister.
04:02So let me come to the point immediately.
04:04General Anil Chohan, our CDS, was in record in Singapore to say, and I think one should applaud him for his candidness, because this government is not transparent, saying that, yes, we did suffer reverses in terms of jet losses.
04:19He didn't specify any number.
04:21And that led to a recalibration of the strategy.
04:24You even had Captain Shiv Kumar, by the way.
04:26I'm quoting people from the Indian Defense Forces.
04:28Captain Shiv Kumar, part of the Indonesian, I think, defense attache, where he went on record to say there was a political influence which inhibited the Indian defense or the Indian Army or the Indian Air Force from taking the battle to Pakistan to its logical conclusion.
04:45My last point, which is the most disappointing, and since you follow national security very closely, and I have admired you and followed you very closely, when the U.S. government, this is a U.S. congressional report, by the way.
04:57Okay, this is not Prithvi Raj Chawan talking through his head.
05:01When the U.S. government, this is the U.S. government's view, and I quote from that report, the U.S. government report says on the Operation Sindhuur and the Pakistan-India skirmish or the conflict, as we decide to call it, Pakistan's, this is their quote, Pakistan's military success over India showcased Chinese weaponry.
05:20Did we really contradict that? Was there any propaganda, blitzkrieg by us to tackle that head-on? No. We have allowed the narrative of this war to be won by Pakistan because of our own incompetence, ham-handedness, and ineptness. That is the bottom line.
05:36Prithvi Raj Chawan is raising...
05:38Respond to him, Sinha. Prithvi Raj Chawan, according to Sanjay Jha and the Congress, is raising some very pertinent points.
05:46Yes, good evening. Kaurav, good evening, everybody. And please give me some time because, you know, Sanjay's had a long run over here.
05:56Now, Prithvi Raj Chawan's statements are problematic at two levels. One, there is zero understanding of modern warfare when he asks why do we need 12 black, you know, army men.
06:08For somebody who has witnessed the human-
06:10I'll come to the army in just a moment. I want to stay on the aspect of air force.
06:13And my questions are very direct. I don't know why my questions are not being answered directly, either by Sanjay Jha or by you.
06:20My question is direct. Did the air force lose the battle on day one according to...
06:24So, let's come to that part.
06:27Not at all. Not at all. Does 100 terrorists being neutralized, is that, you know, is that a sign of defeat?
06:35Obviously, you know, we were not expecting, you know, for us, it was retribution. It was not an expansionist war.
06:42We recalibrated our strategy and Pakistan retaliated. And on the third day, we, you know, kind of decimated 12 PAF air bases.
06:5112 PAF air bases being destroyed, 100 plus terrorists for terror crimes dating back to 1999 being neutralized.
07:00Is that a defeat for the Congress party? Where does this Congress party get this mindset from?
07:05It gets it from Rahul Gandhi. It gets it from Rahul Gandhi who barely 10 days after Operation Sindhu was halted, tried to convert a victory into surrender.
07:15And subsequently, all of the political leaders, whether it is Kharge who called it a Chhutput war, whether it is Rewan Threddy who, you know, again said Pakistan, we could not defeat Pakistan.
07:25All of their leaders are deliberately towing a pro-Pakistan line.
07:29I think Congress needs to answer that. Why do they not trust our DGMOs?
07:33Why do they not trust our DGMOs when they give a particular list of 12 PAF air bases?
07:37We may have suffered minimal damage, but that is, that is, you know, inconsequential, as Rajnath ji has explained in parliament.
07:45You don't count the amount of ink. You don't count the, you know, amount of ink which you spend in standing first in an exam.
07:51This is something which the Congress party is not able to understand today.
07:56Okay. Okay, because this is, this is what the Pakistanis have been claiming all along, Sanjay Jha.
08:02That, you know, Indian Air Force was grounded, that Indian Air Force was defeated.
08:08The Air Force has countered it, including Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal AP Singh.
08:14But I want to bring in Sushant Sareen because few people watch Pakistan as closely as Sushant Sareen.
08:21And Sushant Sareen on day one, and I will take this day by day, need be hour by hour.
08:27Sushant Sareen, was India defeated or was Pakistan soundly defeated with Mureetke and Bahawalpur hit for the first time ever?
08:38Something that I don't know why India seems to want to, or some Indians want to downplay, hitting terror at its headquarters.
08:46Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohmad at their headquarters in Pakistan's Punjab province.
08:50Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohmad at their headquarters in Pakistan's Punjab.
08:55You're on mute, Sushant.
08:59Sorry, some Indians that you're talking about, they are Indians who revel in the prospect and the possibility of India being defeated, humiliated,
09:10because that is what they believe will shine their politics.
09:14So, they will do everything to undermine India, and they follow the Jinnat dictum that you have to destroy India.
09:23You will either destroy India or you will rule it, and there is no other way.
09:28So, they are hell-bent on doing what they are doing.
09:31Hopefully, you know, they will not get the chance.
09:33But people like Prithviraj Chauhan, who I at least at one point of time believed was one of the most enlightened leaders of the Congress Party,
09:43I suppose the rest of the Congress seems to have rubbed off on him as well.
09:47So, he's made a ridiculous statement.
09:49Now, let's look at the factual part of it.
09:52What was the objective of Operation Sindur?
09:55That either we will do what the Congress Party was doing all along, that a terrorist would come, attack, kill 160 people in cold blood,
10:03and you would have no response, or you would seek permission from Pakistan to attack Pakistan.
10:08Either you would do that, okay, or you would say that, no, we are going to hit back, and we will hit back hard.
10:14We don't want a wider war.
10:16We want a limited operation.
10:18But we will strike back.
10:20So, you struck back, you hit nine terrorist bases, and then there was a political decision which was taken that you don't want a wider war.
10:30You want a punitive operation.
10:33So, you went and did it.
10:34The Pakistanis retaliated, as the air marshal has very correctly said.
10:37The Pakistanis retaliate.
10:39You are prepared for it.
10:40I don't know whether we took any hits.
10:42Maybe we did.
10:43Maybe we didn't.
10:44Maybe there was some damage.
10:45We don't know.
10:46But whenever something like this comes from the adversary, you recalibrate, and you hit back.
10:52So, right from day two onwards, you will see the drone attacks and the attacks on air defense systems in Pakistan, in Lahore, in Islamabad, in other places.
11:03Now, all of this is on television.
11:05Now, people like Sanjay Jaqin keep repeating that old stuff which they keep repeating all the time.
11:10They keep regurgitating their own lies, thinking that it will become the truth.
11:14But the fact of the matter remains, right from the second day and the third day, when unfortunately, you guys unnecessarily exacerbated Indian successes when we were hitting Karachi, not the port.
11:27We were hitting the Karachi air defense systems in the Malir Kant.
11:31Malir Kant is Karachi, heart of Karachi, right?
11:34People who probably have seen Dhurandar, there were some people who are allergic to movies like Dhurandar would not have seen it.
11:39But maybe they can see a map of Karachi to understand where Malir cantonment is.
11:43And they'll get to know, hitting Malir cantonment, what an achievement that is.
11:48But forget Malir cantonment.
11:49A whole range of other air defense systems were taken out on day two and day three.
11:54And on day four, that particular night, the 10th, early morning, when the Pakistanis were wanting to announce their Banyan Chadi operation, what happened?
12:04All their big air bases were taken out.
12:06Their command and control systems were taken out.
12:08What else do you think prompted them to follow?
12:10So, I'll come to day two, three and four in just a moment.
12:12Sir, I completely agree with you.
12:14Because I have followed this.
12:16If this is the definition of defeat for the Congress of the party, then what does one say about a party like this?
12:22I'm glad that they are in opposition and I hope they will never come to power.
12:27That's all I can say.
12:28Okay, that's for the electorate to decide, Sushant Sareen.
12:31But I will.
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