- 4 minutes ago
On this Special Report, the focus is on the heated debate regarding the functioning of the Winter Session of Parliament. Panelists discuss the low productivity of the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha, with the Opposition alleging that the government is avoiding discussions on crucial issues like the 'SIR' (Special Summary Revision) of electoral rolls and alleged voter deletions. The government representatives counter by emphasizing the need for constructive debate and citing the Business Advisory Committee's decision to discuss the 150th anniversary of 'Vande Mataram'. The programme explores the political dynamics, the role of the Election Commission, and the challenges ahead for legislative business.
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00:00We have an all MPs panel on news track tonight, Prajita Sarangi, member of Parliament of the BJP, Manikam Tagore, MP of the Congress Party.
00:11We have Sushmita Dev representing the Trinamool Congress.
00:14Manikam Tagore, I'm looking at how the House has functioned. The Prime Minister is right.
00:20Electoral losses are actually reflecting into parliamentary roadblocks.
00:25The winter session of Parliament, the Lok Sabha, in fact, functioned for just 52% of its scheduled time, which was held after Jammu and Kashmir, Maharashtra, Jharkhand and Haryana.
00:37And Rajya Sabha functioned for just 39% of its scheduled time.
00:41Then why is the opposition not letting the House function and is reflecting its electoral setbacks on the floor of the House?
00:51Thank you. The Prime Minister has misunderstood the whole thing.
00:57The Prime Minister must have seen this in a different…every session has some kind of issues to come.
01:06The monsoon session was a sudden SIR in Bihar, which turned the whole game.
01:11And the SIR was a weapon which was used to delete names of those people from particular communities, from backward and shouldal caste and minority communities in that 30-day gap.
01:30All the opposition parties were united for a debate on that subject.
01:34We were demanding for a debate. We were not asking some other thing.
01:38We were asking for a discussion on that thing. And discussion was not allowed.
01:42The arrogance of the government was so high that every time when we are asking for some discussion…
01:49If you remember, 143 MPs have been suspended in Parliament. What was the thing we were asking?
01:54We were asking for the discussion on the attack on the Parliament.
01:58We were asking for the Home Minister to reply. For that, we were all being suspended.
02:02Therefore, every time when we demand for it, when we demand for a discussion, the discussion is not allowed and the Parliament is not functioning.
02:12This we have to understand. The Prime Minister always pins every fact into some other thing.
02:18For he has done that, this thought also. It is good that you are asking the question.
02:23We are very clear. We want a discussion in the Parliament.
02:26We are asking. It is not a Parliament. It is not a cheerleaders club.
02:31We have to ask us, opposition MPs, our duties. People have voted us to the Parliament to ask questions.
02:37Yes. But among asking questions should not mean disruptions.
02:43That is the point that has been made as well.
02:45I am coming to Prajita. But before that, Sushmita Dev, a question being asked now is that
02:50isn't the Parliament a platform for constructive discussion?
02:56How is this constant disruption helping the cause of any of you, any of the political parties?
03:04Because you are answerable to your constituents as well.
03:07And they want issues to be raised in Parliament.
03:09Yeah, I agree with you, Maria.
03:14When you say that what people expect from us, whether it's in the constituency or in the nation,
03:22it is a good discussion and a good debate.
03:25But having said that, in a democracy, the government or the people in power cannot force you
03:34to discuss on the issues that suit them and is convenient to them and avoid topics that are inconvenient to them.
03:44When we say discuss on price rise, they want to discuss Olympics.
03:48When we want to discuss the death of BLOs and the manner in which the SIR is being done,
03:57they want to now discuss oranges.
04:00You know, that's what's happening in Parliament.
04:01Of course, we want to discuss, but you cannot expect us to discuss what the BJP chooses to discuss.
04:10We reflect the mood of the nation.
04:13We reflect the sentiment of the people.
04:16And you have to discuss things like air pollution.
04:20You have to discuss things like how the SIR is impacting electoral democracy.
04:28We have to discuss that need for electoral reforms.
04:33You can't say now start discussing Olympics and sports day.
04:37So, I mean, please, I want the people and your viewers to iron that is that.
04:41While the Prime Minister spoke about where the opposition may be going wrong,
04:47he also said that the Treasury benches should not approach a Parliament session with arrogance of victory.
04:53Does it mean that with repeated victories that the BJP is facing,
05:00it's also not willing to accommodate what the opposition is demanding as their legitimate concern?
05:07Honourable Prime Minister, Srin Narendra Modi ji has shown the mirror to all the opposition members today.
05:16And at the same time, he has also given, I would say, a piece of advice to all the members of Parliament cutting across party lines.
05:28I have also been advised to indulge in constructive discussion.
05:30So, I think all the members of Parliament, whether in the Lok Sabha or the Rajya Sabha,
05:35should utilise their time and actually focus on constructive discussions.
05:40Now, let me tell you, the monsoon session was a complete washout.
05:46And at that point of time, SIR, of course, had surfaced and vote Chori had surfaced.
05:51And then, I remember, thereafter, the Bihar results came.
05:55And then, thereafter, the Bihar results actually made them sink in frustration and disappointment and anger.
06:03These are the three words that come to my mind today.
06:05After seeing their behaviour in the house and outside the house,
06:09I can only say that there is a lack of maturity, there is a lack of balanced approach.
06:13And, of course, they are sinking into the pit of depression and frustration and anger.
06:19See, they just cannot accept the fact that for the past 12 to 13 years, they are out of power.
06:26They have never been used to this.
06:28Now, here is a government which comes to the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha with reform agenda.
06:34We want progress. We want reform.
06:36We want India to be among the list in the list of developed nations.
06:40We are still a developing nation.
06:42We want to be the third largest economy in the world.
06:45I think these are our priorities.
06:47Now, as far as the demand of the opposition is concerned,
06:51I can tell you all our erudite people who are on the panel today,
06:55they are all my esteemed colleagues in the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha.
06:58They know it very well that there is a business advisory committee.
07:02The business advisory committee of the Lok Sabha at this juncture has decided
07:05that there would be about 10 to 12 hours discussion on Vande Matram.
07:10And Vande Matram has completed its 150 years.
07:13So, I think it's very befitting that we have discussion on that.
07:16And, in fact, all have agreed.
07:19And it's a multi-party sitting.
07:20It's not just the BJP or the NDA deciding and the BAC.
07:23And I think Kiran Rijuji in the Rajya Sabha was absolutely candid today.
07:29Very firmly he said, very candidly he said that the business advisory committee
07:35will take a view on the discussion on SIR.
07:38And we are not averse to discussing any matter whatsoever.
07:42So, tomorrow, SIR may also be taken up, provided the BAC decides.
07:48So, I think the BAC will take a view on that and SIR will take a view.
07:52But before I end, please, I can only…
07:55Yes.
07:55Okay.
07:56Manikam Tagore, let's wait for the business advisory committee.
08:02Yeah, business advisory committee met on Saturday also.
08:04You have to understand that the business advisory committee on Sunday, 6 o'clock,
08:09it met… 5 o'clock, it met for…
08:11and first meeting happened and the opposition parties.
08:15You have to understand that opposition means what it is.
08:18Opposition in Lok Sabha means 240 MPs.
08:21In a 543 house, member house, 240 MPs are demanding for a subject to be included.
08:29And you say a thing that we will not include.
08:3040% of the MPs, 43% of the MPs say a thing that we want this discussion to happen.
08:36Why SIR?
08:37In Bihar, 65 lakh voters has been deleted.
08:3912 states, they have rolled out that pilot project back.
08:43Now, how many crores of people's votes are going to be removed?
08:46We want that discussion.
08:48Unilateralism of the election commission, the way Gyanesh Kumar and company are doing,
08:52bulldozing the whole exercise, is our question.
08:55With 30 days' time, BLAs are committing suicides.
09:01There are pressure on those officers in every level.
09:04District administrations are standing still in everywhere.
09:06Disha meetings are not able to happen.
09:08Because of this SIR thing, a lot of pressure is on the officials there.
09:13Therefore, we want that to be discussed.
09:16And you are saying that we will not, it's a political agenda, it is victory, Bihar victory.
09:21Come on, please.
09:2262 lakh voters have been deleted.
09:24That model is, they are extending to 12 states.
09:27We are against that thing.
09:28We continue, there is a, we are, first day also we said.
09:31But Manikam Tagore, having covered the Bihar elections and having followed the entire SIR process,
09:37also the issue having been taken to the Supreme Court, that deletion process may very well be a clean-up exercise.
09:44To say that it is linked to the Bihar results may not be correct.
09:50No, that is your opinion.
09:52Yes.
09:52Our opinion is different.
09:53No.
09:53Your opinion, your opinion may be different.
09:56And the BJP opinion may be some other thing.
09:59But my opinion is different.
10:01RJD's opinion is same.
10:03The irony is that the elections happened in two phases.
10:12And till now, not a single voter who was supposed to be an eligible voter was not given a right to vote,
10:19has been identified by any of the political parties, either by the RJD or by the Congress.
10:25To say that there are a significant number who have not been given the right to vote is a huge charge.
10:30Perhaps you should take this up.
10:31And it's a matter of concern and a concern that the opposition has all right to take up.
10:37But the question then is, how will the House function if this is about more political confrontation, Sushmita Dev,
10:45and ideological disagreement rather than parliamentary practice or, you know, it's about let there be discussion, debate.
10:55You may agree, you may disagree.
10:57But there has to be the functioning of the House.
10:59The House should be allowed to function.
11:01I agree with you.
11:04I have no disagreement with you, Maria, that there should be debate, there should be discussion, discussions.
11:11We may agree on things.
11:13We may not agree on things.
11:15But like I'm saying again, that you want to debate Bande Mataram, please debate Bande Mataram.
11:22The only reason they want to do it now is because they were naive enough and ignorant enough to say you can't say Bande Mataram in Rajya Sabha.
11:30And you can't say Jai Hind in Rajya Sabha, they're just trying to prove a point.
11:34But you have to reflect that what are the other burning issues.
11:40Today, Manikam ji is saying again and again that nobody is opposing SIR.
11:48Please understand, it's not the first time that the SIR is happening in this country, but the manner in which it is being done, the manner in which it is being done and the fact that the ECI is sounding more and more like the mouthpiece of the BJPs is the main concern.
12:07Intensive revision has happened before, but it's the manner in which it's done and it is manipulated.
12:14That's the problem.
12:15See, we can shout on the streets, we can debate on television, but for it to be debated in the two houses of parliament is important because it comes on record.
12:29It's very different to debate on TV and very different to debate in parliament.
12:33So you want to debate Bande Mataram, go ahead.
12:36You want to debate Manipur, go ahead.
12:40But that doesn't mean that you don't accept the burning issues impacting the nation because it doesn't suit you.
12:46We are happy to debate, let's debate tomorrow.
12:48Yes.
12:49Okay.
12:50It is a short winter session, you know, perhaps the shortest that we have seen, Prajita Sarangi.
12:56So the government will be asked this question that why is the winter session such a brief one?
13:02You could have extended the session and showed that the house would have functioned.
13:05And as late Arunjaitli famously said when he was in opposition, that the onus of running the house is on the treasury benches.
13:13If there is constructive discussion within the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha, naturally the entire duration of the parliament session would be lengthened.
13:27But we are not here, MPs from different corners of the country, to listen to all this ruckus.
13:34We are not wanting to be a party to the ruckus.
13:36We don't want to get disturbed so much.
13:38It's better to, you know, go back to your constituency and work.
13:41So I think there has to be order within the parliament.
13:43Now a couple of things.
13:45Now a couple of things.
13:47Haryana, Karnataka and Maharashtra chief electoral officers.
13:51Please recall.
13:52They had written to, or rather told Rahul Gandhi to give information about the bogus voters.
14:00He was not able to provide that particular list.
14:03So what is a halabulu when you are not able to qualify your statements with facts and substance?
14:08And let me tell you that the integrity of the electoral roll is fundamental to parliamentary democracy.
14:14And please, for heaven's sake, go through Article 324 of the Constitution of India.
14:20Nobody is above the Constitution of India.
14:23It vests the superintendents' direction, control of the preparation of electoral roll
14:28and the conduct of all elections in India in the Election Commission.
14:32The Election Commission has been going for sanitization of the voter database since 2003.
14:39It started with Bihar.
14:41So let me tell you, this is not something new.
14:43Only that, there are certain documents which have been added, which is good.
14:46We are trying to sanitize the database as best as we can.
14:503.60 lakh fake voters found in Bihar.
14:55I think we all should welcome this.
14:57And I think the Election Commission, being an independent body, has started an exercise.
15:01And all of us should actually commend the efforts of the Election Commission.
15:04It's a good governance measure.
15:06And it is as per the provisions of the Constitution of India.
15:09So I think there's nothing big deal done now.
15:11No big deal about having this done.
15:12Respond to this.
15:13In 12 states of the country besides Bihar.
15:16Okay.
15:16So Shmita Dev.
15:17No.
15:18But as far as the discussion on burning issues is concerned, the government of Narendra Modi ji
15:23is very much ready.
15:25We would be taking up, provide the BAC decides.
15:27Okay.
15:28My colleague from the BJ, colleague in the Lok Sabha and the BJP spokesperson, in the passing
15:36remarks was mentioning about the leader of opposition.
15:38Leader of opposition was raising a very important issue on the vote jury thing on Maharashtra and
15:44Haryana and Karnataka, particularly on Mahadeva Praha seats, how the vote inclusion has created, fake voters has been created, and how in Haryana also 25 lakh new fake voters are there.
16:02So this is a very serious thing.
16:04Let us understand that the state election commissioners are just working as irresponsible people.
16:11They have to be responsible.
16:13We are speaking about a serious thing.
16:15A leader of opposition is speaking about a serious thing.
16:17And the way the government, as well as the election commission, particularly the BJP and the election commission, are speaking the same language.
16:26The problem is there only.
16:27The problem lies there.
16:29Therefore, we want the election commission to be neutral.
16:31We don't want the election to be on our side.
16:34We want the election commission to be neutral.
16:36They are not doing it.
16:37Therefore, only this debate only, we want to do it in parliament.
16:40We are asking for that kind of, some kind of discussion on this thing.
16:44We know that government will accept at last, because they have done it like this on Manipur issue also.
16:50Whole session was washed out one time because of Manipur.
16:54We demanded for Manipur discussion.
16:55Next time, they have to accept for that Manipur discussion, and Manipur discussion happened.
17:00Therefore, this discussion also, SIR, electoral reforms, vote jury, all are very important things.
17:06This is the right to vote of an Indian is the most important thing.
17:10And BJP members also know that this is a very serious thing.
17:14It is, to save democracy in India, the right to vote has to be saved.
17:18And that is under attack.
17:20Therefore, we have to understand that the importance of parliament lies with the members, the opposition party also, and the ruling party also.
17:29Our voices are not heard.
17:31Our, the business of government only is accepted, not the opposition's business.
17:36Opposition also has demands.
17:38Opposition also has issues to be raised in parliament.
17:41We want the parliament to function, but the government's arrogance, government's one-sided views are only stopping the parliament.
17:47And just my friend, a bit learned friend, mentioned.
17:53Okay.
17:54Mentioned about, mentioned about only one thing.
17:56Mentioned about that curtailing of the house.
17:58It's a Gujarat model.
18:00Gujarat assemblies also works very less.
18:02Now, parliament is also working very less.
18:04Okay.
18:04You see, we, every session, we have the same debate on television.
18:11That, oh, disruption and why is this not happening?
18:15What is that?
18:15Now, you think about it.
18:17In Delhi, recently, near the Red Fort, there is a bomb blast.
18:23Okay.
18:23Internal security needs to be debated.
18:26You tell me, when was the last time home ministry was debated as a ministry?
18:34Because why?
18:36In the BAC meeting that you talk about, generally, it is negotiated between the party,
18:41between the government and the opposition, which is the ministries that will be debated.
18:48Now, what the government does is, they cushion their ministries.
18:54They save the ministers and they save the government from controversial debates.
19:00That's what happens in a business advisory committee meeting.
19:04Now, there was a time in the 16th Lok Sabha when Modi government was very new.
19:09That time, Madam Sarangi was not there.
19:12And I think the Modi government has still not run, you know, learned the ropes.
19:18We used to have short duration discussions.
19:20We used to have calling attention.
19:23We used to react to urgent issues in the state.
19:27And it is to be done there and then.
19:30People who have watched, Maria, you have been a journalist for almost two decades.
19:36You've watched parliament.
19:37Tell me, I mean, tell me, put your hand on your heart and tell me that how badly parliament
19:44and democracy has been impacted since BJP has learned the ropes.
19:50You know, parliament was vibrant.
19:52You could criticize the government.
19:54The government would be accountable.
19:56The government would tell us where they went wrong and what they're going to do to make it right.
20:01That entire spirit of democracy is gone.
20:04Today, we go to the well, not because we like to go to the well.
20:08But it's very simple.
20:10Desperate times need desperate measures.
20:14Okay.
20:14This is a dictatorship.
20:16Okay.
20:1630 seconds I have and then I'll wrap up this discussion.
20:19Aparajita Sarangi, you'll get the last word on the show because you have had two opposition
20:23leaders, two opposition MPs questioning each and every move.
20:27And particularly the fact that this is a very brief winter session.
20:32You know, so opposition, of course, and neither will you get much chance to raise questions
20:37or raise issues.
20:39There are 14 legislative and financial items listed for this session.
20:4815 sitting spread over 19 days.
20:50Now, my dear friends should actually decide to allow discussion on these 14 items.
20:57We are aware of the fact that once the bills are discussed, all opinions taken, they will
21:01be formulated into acts and acts will be implemented for the benefit of the general
21:05public in the country.
21:06So, it's very important to focus on development.
21:09Are they going away from development?
21:11Are they going away from progress when they say no towards for discussion in the legislative
21:17item session?
21:19Now, number two question.
21:21Today, I was quite interested when, amused rather, when Priyanka Gandhi said, I wanted
21:28zero hour.
21:28They are not letting the zero hour done.
21:30Now, who stopped the zero hour?
21:32If you create this kind of ruckus in the house and keep telling things against the government
21:38outside the house and you don't allow things to function, naturally the zero hour cannot
21:43take place.
21:44We want zero hour.
21:45I am an MP.
21:46I want zero hour.
21:47But you have to allow that zero hour to take place.
21:49So, I think it is a collective responsibility.
21:52You are talking about collective responsibility.
21:54And I command that this is collective responsibility to run the parliament with maturity.
22:00Okay.
22:01Prajita Sarangi, Manikam Tigor and Sushmita, they really appreciate your time.
22:04Thank you for joining us here on NewsTrack.
22:07Of course, we were expecting a similar debate to perhaps take place on the floor of the house
22:11inside parliament.
22:13That did not happen.
22:13And so, thank you for a fine debate on NewsTrack.
22:18That's all from me.
22:19I'll be seeing you tomorrow.
22:20Thanks so much for watching.
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