- 2 months ago
In an exclusive interview with India Today, Parliamentary Affairs Minister Kiren Rijiju blamed the opposition for no debate on air pollution in the just concluded Winter session of Parliament.
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00:00top story a bitterly contested and at times acrimonious winter session of parliament has
00:06finally ended today amidst mixed signals this after the contentious g ram g bill to replace
00:14mandrega was finally passed by the lok sabha which debated the bill well past midnight the
00:22opposition walked out the tmc mp spent the night outside protesting the repeal of the mandrega act
00:29the 19-day session has seen several legislations and contentious debates on issues like bande matram
00:37while the opposition wanted one on vote chori amidst all of the acrimony one silver lining
00:44prime minister narendra modi congress mp priyanka gandhi wadra and many other mps attended a
00:51customary tea party hosted by speaker om birla the first time this has happened since the
00:572024 general elections those are some of the issues i raised with the parliamentary affairs
01:07minister kiran rejuju is the government bulldozing legislation as the opposition claims or simply
01:13following its legislative agenda take a look at rejuju unplanned
01:19hello and welcome to this india today's special an acrimonious winter session of parliament has
01:32come to an end and the man at the center of it all in a way is our newsmaker of the moment the
01:38parliamentary affairs minister kiran rejuju joins us appreciate you're joining us mr rejuju have you
01:45lost a few gray hairs uh after that uh parliament session because by the end it had turned out to
01:52be rather bitter the prime minister said at the outset i want discussion in parliament by the end
01:58what did we see a bill being passed at midnight opposition walking out some of them even tearing the
02:04bill clearly it was an acrimonious session mr rejuju well it depends on how you look at the parliament
02:14session if you see the numbers of business we transacted the bills have been passed purely from the
02:26government's point of view it's extremely productive session because all those important
02:34bills are highly reformative bills the opposition is saying you were bulldozing the business one thing
02:40to pass the bill they are saying kiran rejuju and the treasury benches wanted to bulldoze the bills
02:45that too at the last moment of this session not last moment everything was predetermined
02:52and we had placed before the business advisory committee so nothing to hide actually because
02:58the bills are well known we tabled in the bsc and the opposition did not agree to give time for two
03:06bills they gave time for the other bills the only thing what i want to make my position very clear is
03:12from government point of view it's a very productive parliament session from the
03:19parliament democratic point of view we would have loved if the opposition had conducted themselves
03:28in a much better way and also to take up the discussion on pollution which was listed on the
03:34second last day which the opposition did not allow you are ready for a debate on pollution you are
03:39telling me because there's a lot of anger that parliament should be debating real issues mr rejuju of
03:45the people one of them being pollution and the fact is even though it was listed eventually there
03:51was no debate yes i'm very upset with the opposition parties you are blaming them for it and moreover the
03:57opposition party themselves initiated it they said that they want to have a discussion pollution and
04:04government immediately agreed and it was listed in the name of priyanka vadra gandhi the and she was to be
04:12the lead speaker they themselves curtailed her chance to speak now i don't want to draw any political
04:19conclusion on that how the congress party disrupted priyanka gandhi's chance to speak on pollution the main
04:27point is when the pollution discussion was listed and when the time was already allocated the whole day
04:36we were to debate and discuss on pollution the congress party suddenly climbed on the chairs and tables they
04:44disrupted their parliamentary proceedings not only that they came on top of the table of the office and they
04:52created ruckus and that was absolutely uncivilized undemocratic you are saying it was uncivilized undemocratic the
05:00opposition says the government is being undemocratic because you move these very contentious bills
05:06in the last part of the session whether it is the vixit bharat guarantee for rozgar and ajivika mission
05:12which will replace manrega whether it is the shanti bill on nuclear issues you bring it in at the last
05:19stage and you expect the opposition to cooperate opposition said send such contentious bills to select
05:25committees you refuse their argument is this government is my way or the highway first day
05:30or second day or last day doesn't matter how much time you give that is important why not send it to
05:36a select committee for consideration why does this government not want to have any legislative oversight
05:41of crucial bills see these parliamentary committees are in a way extension of the parliament itself yes
05:48parliament also scrutinize the bill same the committee does committee can do in a better way because it has
05:54more time that's all otherwise now opposition party wanted eight hours discussion on the shanti bills
06:04and they also wanted eight hours on jiramji yes we said no problem we can sit throughout the night
06:13we can take up the matter to the next day doesn't matter we were ready during our time as an opposition
06:20government never used to listen to us when we asked for 10 hours discussion they used to give five
06:25when we asked for six hours they'll give three now we are giving them as much as they want no no but
06:31mr reju you since you say what happened when you were in the opposition the details i have when
06:36manmohan singh was in power in the upa 65 to 70 percent of the bills would be sent to select committees
06:42for oversight now it has come down to 16 16 because you do not want any legislative oversight you bring
06:49in the bill at the last moment ask them to go through it debate it and pass it in a hurry shouldn't
06:55such bills go through proper legislative oversight these are very crucial bills as you yourself are
07:00admitting if they are so reformative why couldn't you wait till the budget session we are always open
07:06to scrutiny of the bills many bills many matters have gone to the parliamentary committees this time
07:13also we have referred the higher education adhistan bill to the joint parliamentary committee we have
07:20referred the market security bill to the parliamentary standing committee in the similar way last time
07:26also we sent many bills to the committees in future we will keep sending the question is not every bill
07:33can be referred to the parliamentary committee why can't vgrg such an important bill that has to do
07:38much with rural employment be referred to a uh i don't know a parliament committee a nuclear liability
07:44bill which opposition claims reduces suppliers liability why not re send it to a committee what is the hurry
07:51what is the immediacy of these bills that you had to push it that too on the last few days
07:55no you have not understood what actually transpired in the parliament the the time allocated to the
08:02opposition party was more than enough in fact congress used all the opportunities to speak on the bill as
08:12for the time allocated to them but the problem is when the minister started responding they came down to
08:19the well of the house and created ruckus that is a problem if you are you suspend them for this those
08:25those you mentioned just now that some mps according to you climbed up the speaker's chair
08:31and tore the bill will you suspend those mps in the budget session is that what you're saying
08:38those are possibility some of the mps in the loksawa climb on the table and disturb the entire proceedings
08:45and they behave in a way which is totally undemocratic which is uh unseen normally in the parliamentary
08:52democracy they deserve some kind of action now these actions are on the basis of the prescribed rules
09:00parliament functions through rules and conventions there are enough conventions enough rules which
09:06will take care of what kind of action will be taken i cannot pronounce the nature of action right now
09:14but the ethics committee or whatever speaker feels you know correct it will definitely so you're not
09:19ruling out the possibility of mps who according to you disrupted the house by climbing on the speed
09:26at the speaker's podium from being suspended yes i'm absolutely clear that if you want to disturb the
09:31proceedings you can still uh stand on your seat and disturb because you remember arun jaitli once said
09:39obstruction is the legitimate right of a parliamentarian it's not as if you cannot obstruct uh parliament
09:46when you all when arun jaitli was in the opposition there was an entire session you will recall that
09:51was uh that was virtually uh blocked by the opposition on 2g on uh on on coal on other issues at the time
09:58you can conveniently quote arun jaitli but you have to understand one thing
10:04physically harming somebody it's not obstruction they were coming to the well and they were climbing on
10:12the table disturbing the officers coming to the side of the ruling party we don't do that in fact during
10:19our time advaniji used to tell us that we must protest but don't go to that side so what what
10:27should the opposition do if the government has decided my way or the highway these bills will be
10:32passed in this session yes you can discuss it but my voice force vote i will pass it as we saw in the
10:38previous uh parliament with the farm laws what does the opposition do they are saying we have no voice in
10:44parliament opposition says government does not want to give them a voice in parliament all bills
10:49can no amendments are accepted by the government to any of these bills because the problem is the
10:54actual problem is people have voted modiji yes and nda to the power yes rahul gandhi wants to
11:03appoint election commission he wants to make laws he wants to do everything for that you have to win
11:09election now you are in opposition and you want to decide the fate of the nation it will not happen
11:14you can't insult the mandate of the people we have got the mandate we have to serve the nation
11:22now for example when the discussion was taking place on election reforms rahul gandhi was complaining
11:29that it is a prime minister and home minister who for majority he's alone and during congress time
11:35opposition was not even invited opposition was not even part of the process of appointment
11:41here at least your voice is heard but if opposition wants to run the government that will be totally
11:47anti-democratic how can they expect that they will decide the fate of the bill or they will take the
11:55course of the nation as per their will it cannot happen are you blaming therefore rahul gandhi
12:00specifically the individual are you saying rahul gandhi is the one who's responsible for the
12:04disruption not the entire opposition see most of the opposition leaders i think you are very senior
12:10journalist and you will also understand there are many political parties many mps even young first-timers
12:18who are great orator they have the ability to perform on the floor of the house but when the leader of
12:24the principal opposition party do not perform himself do not allow other the opportunity to perform
12:32then who are the losers it is the opposition mps who are the loser that is why i have said in the
12:38beginning from the government point of view business transaction passing the bills we are very happy
12:44but we want at the same time the discussion and debate should be thoroughly done so that the opportunity
12:50to scrutiny scrutinize the bill should be available to every member because i saw something very
12:56interesting happened today there was the speaker's tea and the vice chairman of the rajas abbas tea
13:03and at both those traditional events the rajas abbas chairman and the speaker's tea the opposition
13:10leaders actually came for it they haven't come for it since 18 months this time they were there
13:15including priyanka gandhi wadra and sonia gandhi raul gandhi is in germany but they were there and i'm
13:22told it was held in a very relaxed atmosphere are you saying that actually there is possibilities for
13:29the opposition and government to talk to each other the prime minister was there priyanka gandhi wadra was
13:35there at the tea and i i'm told it was a very cordial engagement yes i was there in the first in the
13:42lok sabha after the session in the chamber of the locks of a speaker and then i went to the rajasabha
13:48the chamber of the chairman uh sonia gandhi was there in the rajasabha chairman's chamber and
13:55priyanka gandhi along with the opposition leaders also joined the honorable prime minister
14:00so the discussion was very cordial because there is basically chaipe charcha after the session is the
14:05customary but it hasn't happened for 18 months for the first time since june 2024 we've had a proper
14:11chaipe charcha involving it did happen but not uh in a are you saying because rahul gandhi is in
14:18germany therefore it was easier for you to deal with priyanka gandhi wadra and sonia gandhi one
14:22person can spoil the entire atmosphere no you're saying that it is easier for you as a parliamentary
14:28affairs minister to deal with priyanka gandhi wadra then and sonia gandhi then rahul gandhi see let me be
14:34honest uh priyanka gandhi is uh slightly you know more pleasant in terms of exchange of views and
14:45ideas and she listens that is what i have observed but you all seem rahul gandhi gets under your skin
14:52on the other hand because he hits you hard that's why does he get under your skin hitting hard doesn't
14:59make any difference to us because we are bothered about the people's welfare who says what it is
15:06okay that in politics has happened what i'm talking is on the softer side how we should be beyond what
15:13happens in the glare of the public or in the floor of the house there are space where you become quite
15:19private and you can converse talk about something which is beyond politics you seem to have found a
15:25soft spot in priyanka gandhi no i have no personal you know take on anything but i'm just making an
15:32observation what i've seen okay let's talk about specific issues that were raised the opposition
15:38is angry in the way mahatma gandhi's name has been removed from this rural employment scheme they are
15:43saying it's an insult to mahatma gandhi parties like the tinamul congress went on a 12-hour dharna
15:48outside parliament saying you have insulted mahatma gandhi is this government uh going to backtrack
15:55on this scheme at some stage like you backtrack with form farm laws the opposition says they're
15:59going to start a nationwide campaign with the will this scheme be rolled back or will remain as it is
16:05no you have to understand one thing if a particular scheme has not done uh some kind of justice to the
16:15people for whom the law has been brought you must look towards improving the provision or to change or
16:23reform manrega because i come from a rural constituency manrega but it's it's applicable all
16:32over the country manrega has not actually lifted the standard of the life of the people
16:38and there are lots of corruption rajdi please understand manrega in both of the cases the jcbs are
16:45used to dig the hole dig the soil earth removing this and that they're huge corruption i'm telling you
16:52no but you can strengthen the scheme nobody's saying you can not strengthen the scheme why did
16:56you need to change the name of the scheme the entire structure has been changed because so the name also
17:02has to change in the structure we need to change the gear to the next level this is india of 21st century
17:10we won't be doing justice if we leave people to only digging holes we have to uplift their living
17:18standards take them to the next level yeah but the opposition says this scheme will ensure that the
17:22center will control the entire scheme first of all you want the states to fund 40 percent but the center
17:28will decide discretionary path will be with the center it will affect the federal setup it is not that
17:33it is responsibility shared by both central government and the state governments you have to understand
17:39one thing this is by far one of the biggest reforms to transform the rural economy life of the
17:46people in rural india you will not discriminate between government and opposition rule not at all
17:51this is one of the biggest reform express of narendra modiji narendra modi's reform express
17:59is not going to stop it has begun and this winter session of parliament has seen some of the biggest
18:06reforms which i can clearly say this is reforms express which is on the move it will not stop you are
18:13calling it reform express similarly the shanti bill on nuclear because reform you're saying it's reform
18:19the opposition says you are diluting suppliers liability because you want to attract donald trump's
18:25attention and this entire bill has been dictated by america and will help certain cronies of this
18:31government let us not go into the opposition rhetorical those accusations these are totally unfounded
18:37do you want nuclear atomic sector to be opened up don't you want it to be reformed don't you want the
18:45huge energy requirement of the nation to be met by clean fuel it's interesting you're saying that
18:51because when you were in the opposition in 2010 you all were opposing uh manmohan singh on the civil
18:55oh that is about the nuclear how you have surrendered your sovereignty to the united states is different
19:01no they are saying you have surrendered your sovereignty where you stand depends on where you
19:05sit tell me one provision where we have surrendered our supply is liability oh no see these are highly
19:13legal matter these are also matter of very sensitive in its nature we can't easily make some kind of
19:22frivolous accusation to dilute the intention of the government you can't do that these are extremely
19:28serious matter how do people come and invest how do you create the the right atmosphere for better
19:34investment you have to attract you all spend 10 hours in the lok sabha and 10 hours in the rajasabha on
19:41vande matram yes and made it do you believe vande matram was the most important issue to discuss
19:47shouldn't you have discussed pollution first and then vande matram even on sequencing you got your way
19:52this year vande matram attend 150 years yes it's not our fault it has fallen on this year in the
20:00month of november we are discussing in december this is the year next year will be 151 you could have
20:06discussed it at the end and discuss pollution why don't you discuss the real issues the falling rupee
20:12the uh attack on red fort uh as i said pollution again the real issues of today instead of discussing
20:19something something i tell you one thing i tell you one thing on the first day on the um that all
20:25party meeting yes the congress party initially suggested that we should discuss on the delhi bomb
20:30blast after all after 11 years there is a major bomb blast in metropolitan cities of india for last 11
20:37years no bomb blast in entire country in the major cities secondly they also placed some of the
20:44issues to be discussed we said we are open to it we were prepared nobody gave the notice and then they
20:53wanted first discussion on the election reforms including the sir we agreed on the second day when
21:01they requested i responded positively and then how started functioning normally so we wasted two days
21:08because of their reluctance to change the title of the discussion because they wanted sir and you said
21:15electoral reform i said larger issue because sir is part of the election process right so if that agreed
21:23in the day one we would have not wasted the precious two days after that we allocated the times for each
21:30bill the uh the education bill which is the adishtan one that they said send it to committee
21:38we referred it to standing committee then health structure say raster structure we discussed enough
21:44time given then we discussed on some other minor bills agreed and then shanti bill on the nuclear issue
21:53we've offered four hours they short six hours we gave them six hours everything was okay finally
22:00on the g ramji bill they said eight hours we said no problem we'll discuss eight hours and in rajasaba yesterday
22:12they came to me and made a special request that beyond the time allocated please give extra 25 minutes to
22:20malik karjoon kargeji because he's leader of the operation i said fine late night around three o'clock it will
22:26come let kargeji come let him speak no problem we will give extra time i told the chairman please
22:34allocate the time government has no problem not only 25 minutes the chairman gave him 37 minutes after his
22:41speech when the minister stood up to respond they came to the well started tearing the papers they started
22:48southeast slogan two of the lady mps came towards bjp side i was jokingly said that they might be interested
22:55to join bjp they came to our side but however what i'm saying is for the for the amount of time we
23:02devoted it could have ended in a better way if they had not created the ruckus at the end of the day
23:09it is also true that this government because it has a majority wants its way all the time and therefore
23:15the census parliament is being reduced to a rubber stamp or a notice not you know
23:19see rajdiv jay you are mistaking our system with uh british system or the american system
23:28ours is a parliament democracy where majority of the government
23:34are the people who run the government the majority in the parliament are the government so
23:42when we have decided something to discuss definitely we have the confidence
23:47in the in the strength of the government you you must look back to one incident which i will remind
23:54you it's very interesting 2004 upa1 congress had only 145 bjp had 138 left front had 62 mps the upa1 was
24:08surviving on left front on the floor of the house when chidambram was placing budget and the discussion
24:15started the left front one after another gave suggestions acharya ji gurudas gupta they all said
24:24that you are surviving on our support please listen to our suggestion and chidambram stood up and said it
24:31is still there in the court he said it is your right you can give suggestion but it is up to the government
24:38whether to listen or not government will do its way we are not arrogant like that they treated their
24:44allies like that here we are ready to listen to the operation but if the operation wants
24:50that their idea should be enforced it will not happen you know two more uh concerns that are
24:56expressed at time one the prime minister doesn't attend parliament enough no no the british system
25:01the prime minister has a particular day when he takes all questions our prime minister doesn't in
25:06fact ironically both the prime minister and rahul gandhi were away in the last week of parliament
25:10should they be there and don't don't compare this to trip prime minister was on national duty
25:18rahul gandhi was on personal duty please don't compare this but should the prime minister be not
25:23there in parliament regularly taking questions that would enhance the quality then force everyone
25:28uh to attend parliament this system doesn't permit it
25:32why can't we change the system prime minister is supposed to be there only on the question day
25:39related to pmo or any portfolio which is under the prime minister every day is divided into different
25:45ministries in the british parliament there is a prime minister's question day that system why can't
25:52we have it in india that is a suggestion but this is not there okay okay one of the concerns is also
25:58the number of days of parliament if i look at it the first parliament 135 days on an average per
26:04per year on jawala nehru someone who will routinely attack now in the last parliament session average
26:11was 55 uh last parliament it was 55 days of course kovid was there but even now this session was only
26:17three weeks if you had made it a four week session all these concerns could have been met you could have
26:22got all your legislation you are seriously mistaken i'm seriously mistaken see opposition party the way
26:29they have behaved on the last day it would not matter if the session was four weeks or five weeks
26:36they would same you know create ruckus every day so how do you overcome this trust deficit then
26:41government which is in majority should propose business bills other things let opposition criticize
26:50give suggestion but don't force that their will have to be accepted by the government this cannot happen
26:58because in the parliamentary democracy majority will have to prevail minority will not be ignored but
27:05their suggestions will also be heard and also if necessary it will be incorporated but if the opposition
27:13party thinks that their ideas should be incorporated in total if their ideas should be included in total it
27:24cannot happen now all i am saying is could we strengthen the parliamentary committee system scrutiny
27:30system legislative oversight it happens wherein outside the glare of the camera both sides can meet
27:36that is you have friends on both sides whom you meet you can meet them in closed doors and and
27:40and you are you are referring like you did the work bill other bills went through a process you have
27:46just referred to one or two bills yes i have no dispute on that but for your information
27:54every ministry's budget every ministry's account and all the matter are subject to the parliamentary
28:02standing committee scrutiny it happens invariably and they are reported back to parliament it happens
28:07you are just confined to a few of the issues with the opposition people have raised over the past two
28:13years it's not like that every standing committee invariably scrutinize the entire functioning of the
28:21government interesting because in this interview you've also suggested to me that you find it easier
28:27to deal with a priyanka gandhi vadra than you do with a rahul gandhi at least that's the impression i'm
28:34getting between the lines at the moment a slight correction uh i'm just making an observation priyanka
28:40gandhi vadra is not the leader of congress party she's a member respectable member of the but you want
28:46her attitude to i i to others also her presentation was more balanced and uh more more uh you know kind of a
28:56uh acceptable to to other members she doesn't let anything into out of hand through her speech she
29:04doesn't create problem through her speech that to that extent i was quite appreciative so what you are
29:11saying is mutual respect for each other is the way forward that if you respect each other treat each
29:17other as adversaries but not as enemies we are not enemies i have stated in the beginning we are not
29:22enemies we are just rivals kiran rejuju for speaking to us after that uh highly contested uh session of
29:28parliament thank you very much thank you the parliamentary affairs minister kiran rejuju taking
29:33all the questions thanks for watching stay well stay safe namaskar
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